100% PDT for PET is plain BS.

[Leonlionheart]

Above poster is right.

I mean people QQ, "ABY TOO EASY MUST HAVE HARD STUFF." What about having an invincible pet makes the game challenging and enjoyable for anyone? IDK who in their right mind would really be proud about their gear being obtained in such a manner. If you don't get the feeling of accomplishment, what's the point in playing anyway?

On a side note,
The only point of BST ever was to MPK people. Now that that's been taken away (lol like 4 years ago now) BSTs dont get to have any fun!

[Behemuthxero]

Wow, this is still going on...

ok lets end it right now,

Problem: QQ BST wont die and i want the nm! Get rid of PDT!

Ok, go ahead

Atma of the Sea Daughter :
Regain+: Superior (5TP/tick), Slow+: Superior (+13.3%), Regen+: Superior (30HP/tick Regen during Daytime)


Atma of the Mounted Champion:
VIT:Superior (+50), Regen:Superior (20HP/tick), Enmity decrease when taking damage -:Minor

Atma of the Ducal Guard:
(Don't play that game you know wut it does)

So 50 regen a tick(not to mention Dipper Yuly's natural daytime regen)..plus regen from pet food.....plus healing from pet food (1700-2100 hp every minute) and items....

Remove the PDT, it doesn't matter, you CAN'T kill the bst anyway!
This whole thread is worthless because BST will just go be invincible in some other way. This also fails to recognize that a BST only needs to keep the pet alive for four minutes and 30 seconds. Jugs are dirt cheap and stack, so 12 pets per inventory slot that BST can keep alive indefinitely. All the PDT does is save us some money in not having to spam pet food and jugs, or time if you farm them.

[Yinnyth]

If you're trying to kill an NM with those atmas, your pet isn't going to do enough damage to kill it in 2 hours, to say nothing of killing it before nightfall when your regen will drop to 20/tick, and that still is nothing even close to what pet jobs need.

[Xilk]

Self-righteous much? You're arguing seperate points and as such will never see eye to eye.

The argument for nerfing: There is no player or pet that should ever be 100% immune to physical damage at all times. I don't care if you have 30 bards, corsairs, red mages, and scholars cycling into a PLD's party to keep him fully buffed, that PLD should (and does) still take physical damage. But we're talking about a solo player that is capable of achieving that on their pet. A solo player achieving what hundreds of other players working in perfect harmony could not achieve in any other manner.

The argument against nerfing: Pet jobs (largely BST) have been the low end of the food chain in FFXI since day 1. No one shouts in Jeuno "Rani kill [Do you need it?] 12/18 BST needed!". In fact, no one has ever intentionally tried to seek out pet jobs because they were the best choice for the party slot. EVEN WITH 100% PDT in Abyssea, no one in their right mind wants a pet job to join, and therefore not only is a nerf unnecessary, it's inflaming an age-old problem.

What you fail to realize is that this is horrible thing for you to be fighting for. Pet jobs do not need invulnerable pets. They need their pets to be valuable in unique ways. They need improved damage output and versatility. They need better gear choices and more JAs. They need the ability to have their pets directly and indirectly buffed in a party setting. Pet jobs need dozens of things, but they do not need this. Someday, abyssea will no longer be the endgame, and pet jobs will still not be fixed. But hey, at least in abyssea your pet will still be immune to physical attacks, right?

Do not fight to keep this. Fight to trade it for what the jobs really need.


Good try. I almost believed you were honest, but you and Leon are stuck in 2004. You have such a bias against it that you don't examine any details.

Argument to nerf bst: I hate bst cuz they shouldn't be able to do anything that doesn't make them conform to how I think the game should be played.

Argument not to nerf it: Its not broken. Don't submit to noisy haters.

[Leonlionheart]

Good try. I almost believed you were honest, but you and Leon are stuck in 2004. You have such a bias against it that you don't examine any details.

Argument to nerf bst: I hate bst cuz they shouldn't be able to do anything that doesn't make them conform to how I think the game should be played.

Argument not to nerf it: Its not broken. Don't submit to noisy haters.

Again, you sound so dumb right now.

IDGAF how you play your game, but when it gets in MY WAY then I have a problem.

I had to wait 45 minutes for a BST to eventually wipe to Amhuluk back at 85, a fight that I've done in 45 seconds.

I'll say it again HOW IS THAT NOT A PROBLEM?

[Yinnyth]

Good try. I almost believed you were honest, but you and Leon are stuck in 2004. You have such a bias against it that you don't examine any details.

Argument to nerf bst: I hate bst cuz they shouldn't be able to do anything that doesn't make them conform to how I think the game should be played.

Argument not to nerf it: Its not broken. Don't submit to noisy haters.

No, actually you didn't come within a malm of believing I was honest. Anyone who threatens your precioussssssss is an enemy to you, and enemies should not have their intelligence or integrity respected. I'll let you know I have never seen bst soloing stuff I want to fight. I honestly don't care that they do it. I "play" pup. I put that in quotes because it's never useful in LS events, and honestly, it's never really useful solo either- I'm better off on thf or cor. I want to see pet jobs fixed, but this is not the fix.

My current point of view is that this should not be fixed until pet jobs are made useful in other ways. I don't just mean bst, I mean pup and smn too. Burritos got nerfed. It sucks, but it had to be done because they were better than empyrean and mythic combined. The pdt should also be nerfed eventually. It shouldn't be high on the priority list, but it needs to happen someday.

[Chocobits]

So it seems like the animosity of this thread is about people taking too long to kill things.. and PDT is being used as a scapegoat example because it allows their pets to live a bit longer vs the few mobs that don't have crippling magic attacks.

People will kill slow and get in your way no matter what job they are on. Screaming for nerfs is a nubby way of fixing your personal annoyances.

The greatest gift SE can give to all parties in involved is give BST more offensive buffs/stats for their pets so that they can kill mobs and be on their merry way. BST, moreso than any other job in the game, is a SOLO job. It makes sense that they solo NMs. It doesn't make sense that they take so long though.

If a pet PDT nerf happened, then.. you'll all still be being c***blocked by the Blu Blm Nin trio spamming mobs, the DNC soloing them, the 3 SMN kiting something, the MNK + WHM which is actually killing your mob faster than you could, or the alliance spamming 70 Carabosses to finish 2 ppl's weapons.

What it sounds like you really want is for SE to give you a global disconnect button so only you and a few friends can be in a given zone at any given time. Heh. We'd all like that.

If you ever see me out on BST soloing something, you can go grab a Twix and move onto something that's a better use of your time, or you can fume and rant and smacktalk in say. Either way, you can kiss my axe.

[Yinnyth]

If the core problem here is a matter of taking forever to kill something, then a fix is already on the way with more ???s to pop multiple copies of the same NM at the same time. Like you've pointed out, it doesn't take 100% pdt to waste someone else's time. I've watched a full alliance of people take 90+ minutes to kill Ulhuadshi. Annoying, but I don't think newbs should be banned from the game because of it. Causing rage would be an interesting mid-way solution, though I've never been a fan of rage mobs.

My complaint is more that 100% pdt is an absolute, and players should not be allowed to reach absolutes except in the rarest of circumstances. I personally also believe alexander should be nerfed because perfect defense is over the top. But I also think the nerfs should be put on hold until something else is offered up to those jobs in exchange.

[Leonlionheart]

So it seems like the animosity of this thread is about people taking too long to kill things.. and PDT is being used as a scapegoat example because it allows their pets to live a bit longer vs the few mobs that don't have crippling magic attacks.

People will kill slow and get in your way no matter what job they are on. Screaming for nerfs is a nubby way of fixing your personal annoyances.

The greatest gift SE can give to all parties in involved is give BST more offensive buffs/stats for their pets so that they can kill mobs and be on their merry way. BST, moreso than any other job in the game, is a SOLO job. It makes sense that they solo NMs. It doesn't make sense that they take so long though.

If a pet PDT nerf happened, then.. you'll all still be being c***blocked by the Blu Blm Nin trio spamming mobs, the DNC soloing them, the 3 SMN kiting something, the MNK + WHM which is actually killing your mob faster than you could, or the alliance spamming 70 Carabosses to finish 2 ppl's weapons.

What it sounds like you really want is for SE to give you a global disconnect button so only you and a few friends can be in a given zone at any given time. Heh. We'd all like that.

If you ever see me out on BST soloing something, you can go grab a Twix and move onto something that's a better use of your time, or you can fume and rant and smacktalk in say. Either way, you can kiss my axe.

You know, you're kinda right.

However I think it goes a bit deeper than that because BST actually gets the same invincibility that PLD has on it's 2hour (minus the "enmity" that an Ukko's or a Victory Smite will pull away anyway) or a similar invincibility that THF's 2hour gives. So that's why so many people feel cheated.

It's not that BST is a solo job and takes forever, it's the way it goes about it. I wouldn't care so much if the BST was able to cure it's pet and live forever, because in essence that's basically what a MNK+WHM is doing. The fact that a BST just doesn't take damage is kind of wrong.

I've been blocked by a BST a couple times, and only once did we actually team up with one because he/she actually talked to us. The only thing that really pisses me off is when they don't communicate at all.

[Behemuthxero]

If you're trying to kill an NM with those atmas, your pet isn't going to do enough damage to kill it in 2 hours, to say nothing of killing it before nightfall when your regen will drop to 20/tick, and that still is nothing even close to what pet jobs need.

And the 100% PDT atmas are conducive to killing NMs? The pet will have the exact same dmg potential as with the 100% PDT route. With faster TP moves, as a funny side effect lol. The nighttime issue is moot..even w/o the 30 and night time its still 20 regen + reward regen plus 1 minute rewards...the point was that its far more than enough to keep a pet alive for four and a half minutes. Use Ebon hoof instead of sea daughter so Nazuna has 7k hp instead of 5k.

4.5 minutes = 4 rewards = 2100 x 4 = 8400 hp
20 a tick regen = 20 x 90 = 1800 (not including reward regen and merits that enhance it)
starting HP (including ebon hoof) = 5500 x 1.3 = 7,150
all told = 17,350 hp
50% dmg taken means a mob has to do 34,700 dmg in 4:30.

Finally, the 100% pdt set give 0 DD bonuses...this is no worse than that for killing anything in any amount of time. The whole gripe behind this is that we take longer to kill a mob. Noone really cares that we can -100%PDT what they are about is they either don't like that we can and they can't or that it takes us longer because we have to sacrafice alot of DD potential to do it.

You are right about not being what a pet jobs needs, however. What pet jobs need is pets with TP moves that aren't jokes and defensive options mixed with offensive options. The issue really with PDT sets is that we have to gear at the far end of one extreme. If we could kill a NM in the same time as a MNK + WHM we would but atm this is one of the few options we have available to us.

People who are saying "but its just not fair to not take physical damage." MNK + WHM cure 5 spam is no different. The monk takes dmg sure, but do they really? perfect counter + constant cure bombing? They take damage for about 2 seconds and are back to full health. Add to that the fact that their damage is ridiculous, something we can't do when we are forced to go full DEF mode.

[Yinnyth]

A monster who hits you for 0 damage gains 0 TP for doing so. Getting rid of 100% pdt may kill your ability to solo on bst in aby more than you realize. Also, I think the slow effect from sea daughter might inhibit your pet's damage more than the regain would increase it.


Noone really cares that we can -100%PDT what they are about is they either don't like that we can and they can't or that it takes us longer because we have to sacrafice alot of DD potential to do it.


I don't care that you take forever to kill something. I have to watch hordes of newbs do it everytime I go to abyssea. Makes no difference to me if it's a lone BST or 18 SAMs just zombie'ing. Heck, I honestly don't think there's all that much that you can solo on BST that I can't solo on THF (because I also dualbox a WHM). I'd probably even do it faster than you. I don't think your ability to solo is broken, because I do it myself in a very different way. I don't think you taking forever to kill something is broken, because anyone can take forever to kill something. I just think that infinite protection against physical damage is an oversight.

[Behemuthxero]

A monster who hits you for 0 damage gains 0 TP for doing so. Getting rid of 100% pdt may kill your ability to solo on bst in aby more than you realize. Also, I think the slow effect from sea daughter might inhibit your pet's damage more than the regain would increase it.



I don't care that you take forever to kill something. I have to watch hordes of newbs do it everytime I go to abyssea. Makes no difference to me if it's a lone BST or 18 SAMs just zombie'ing. Heck, I honestly don't think there's all that much that you can solo on BST that I can't solo on THF (because I also dualbox a WHM). I'd probably even do it faster than you. I don't think your ability to solo is broken, because I do it myself in a very different way. I don't think you taking forever to kill something is broken, because anyone can take forever to kill something. I just think that infinite protection against physical damage is an oversight.

I had not considered the TP gain issue but mostly because what you say is right concerning how to solo. I would never use the 100% PDT to solo something lol. I have a pretty pimp BST and rarely take it into aby for this exact reason. Not that I give a crap about other people waiting, its that I don't want to waste just under 3 stones worth of time killing one mob without procs for a slight chance at some item.

The real answer to this entire issue is people waiting for a mob and not knowing how to say {team up?} Maybe the PDT set was SE's way of saying "get along or live with it" lol

[Yinnyth]

Hrm... I fear they may be fixing this sooner than they should have. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/7825-Details-on-Next-Week’s-Version-Update

•Pet, Wyvern and Automaton may become invincible under certain circumstances.

Hopefully some serious pet loving next major update to make up for the loss.

[Arcon]

Argument to nerf bst: I hate bst cuz they shouldn't be able to do anything that doesn't make them conform to how I think the game should be played.

Wrong. But you seem hard to convince otherwise, I can't prove that I don't hate BST, and unless I did I doubt you would believe it. If it helps: I'm a SMN, and I think the nerf we received was good. I don't want it because it would make BST soloing impossible (because it wouldn't and if you think you need 100% PDT reduction to be good, then you're not as good as you think you are), but because it's implausible. The other thread actually does offer a nice analogy, 100% Haste would break the game. Same with -100% damage taken, only in a more boring way.

And you still think BST takes massive magical damage, which is wrong. They can get a huge magic damage reduction as well (far higher than any player, just not quite 100%), which also works on DoT spells and spikes. Of course they're not completely invincible on everything, but on some things they are. And there's quite a few. There's whole families of mobs who don't use magical attacks like Cactuars and Scorpions (Hedjedjet is a one-time exception). Then there's Tablilla, Awahondo, Koghatu, Blanga, Audumbla, Yaguarogui, and lots more who can be killed by simple engaging and going afk to make lunch or something, a guaranteed kill with zero risk. Something like that shouldn't be possible at all. With the right positioning, a good BST could even take on Alfard and similar NMs without ever taking a single point of damage.

Then there's plenty of NMs that only use some magic, which is still manageable, because of their high magical damage reduction. And there's some mobs who don't cast but only use magical TP moves. However, if you're getting hit for 0, the mob's TP gain will be significantly slower, so a lot less TP moves are gonna be used in the first place, not all of which are magical. Only a few mobs which spam spells like no tomorrow will pose a challenge (Teekesselchen, Empousa, and a handful of others). This includes god-tier NMs like Pantokrator, Rani and Shinryu (using god-tier as a relative term).

Hate reset is almost a non-issue, since the BST can take a few hits before they die, which is more than enough to get hate back for any pet. If anything, it sounds like you're exaggerating BST's survival deficiencies, which really aren't there. BST is one of the sturdiest jobs in the game right now, as is PUP. Also, you're exaggerating their offensive deficiencies, as a single BST pet is still an average damage dealer.

Also remember that, if the cap was reduced to, say, 80%, while you would actually have to put some effort into keeping your pet alive, you would have to put a lot less effort into obtaining the remaining 20% PDT. Which means, you can use that to take on another DD Atma, or keep the Atma and invest in more DD gear. Either way, I don't think it would go a lot slower, maybe even faster than it goes now, it would just be harder to pull it off.


Argument not to nerf it: Its not broken. Don't submit to noisy haters.

One could argue to not submit to obsessive fanboys either.


[..]

I want to perma-Like all of your posts. Is there an option for that?

[Halycon]

First everybody hates dnc and now everyone hates bst? lol.

[Volkai]

Problem solved -

Details on Next Week's Version Update
...
The following issues will be fixed
...
* Pet, Wyvern and Automaton may become invincible under certain circumstances.


===========


Hrm... I fear they may be fixing this sooner than they should have. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/7825-Details-on-Next-Week’s-Version-Update


Hopefully some serious pet loving next major update to make up for the loss.
There is no such thing as 'too soon' for fixing a glitch. Furthermore, there is no pet love required to 'make up for the loss' of the ability to abuse a glitch.

Remember, abusing a glitch is something you can get banned for. When you encounter are glitch, you are supposed to report it, and avoid triggering it. You are NOT supposed to take advantage of it for personal (or group) gain. Let's not forget WHY the Salvage Bans happened.

[Malamasala]

This is what I hate about SE. Oh dear, a bug that makes players happy? FIX. What did you say? A 10 year old bug that makes you unhappy? IGNORE.

For once I'd like SE to go in and emergency maintenance the spirits. It doesn't have to take a decade to correct an error.

[Elexia]

You have to be honest, -100pdt is pretty stupid.

Nope, but I'm sure players want it only for themselves. I've literally seen a bunny tank the living fu- out of every iron giant.

It was amazing. Even Iron Giants can't stand up to XI's bunnies.

[GlobalVariable]

Again, you sound so dumb right now.

IDGAF how you play your game, but when it gets in MY WAY then I have a problem.

I had to wait 45 minutes for a BST to eventually wipe to Amhuluk back at 85, a fight that I've done in 45 seconds.

I'll say it again HOW IS THAT NOT A PROBLEM?Was that bst DRUNK? I can't make it take that long if I tried.

[Futan]

I can see it now after next week's update in the patch notes:


Known Issues
An issue with the job Beastmaster being worthless.

If they're taking PDT away they should at least give them back Charm. Let them have something.

[Novati]

Nope, but I'm sure players want it only for themselves. I've literally seen a bunny tank the living fu- out of every iron giant.

It was amazing. Even Iron Giants can't stand up to XI's bunnies.

A white killer bunny to be precise. Only difference is its on our side.

If SE is going to clamp down on PDT (thanks for adding that pet: -3%pdt backpiece btw) then they could focus more on giving BST more pet evasion. Also a thf type Puk jug would be nice with Z.Mantle.

The nerf will probably only end up like the SMN nerf at the start of the year. Nothing is really going to change except pets will always be able to take at least 1dmg. In some cases it will be worse with some BSTs replacing DD atmas to PDT again to compensate for the loss. Resulting in even slower solo fights.

If it's too severe then expect to see more bandwagon nins and thfs showing up very soon.

One definite result of this though will be the increased consumption of jugs and pet food meaning higher costs and less inventory space. SE better consider increasing the stack sizes of jugs/petfood like people want if they are pulling this on them. And make that dawn mulsum stackable too.

[Arcon]

[..] Nothing is really going to change except pets will always be able to take at least 1dmg. In some cases it will be worse with some BSTs replacing DD atmas to PDT again to compensate for the loss. Resulting in even slower solo fights.

Quite the opposite is the case. If they cap PDT reduction at 80% for example, you won't have to use that extra Atma to get that high. So either you turn that into a DD Atma, in the hopes you kill faster, or you change that one into a Regen Atma, which doesn't change DD capabilities at all. Either way, it shouldn't make the fights last longer.

[GlobalVariable]

I can see it now after next week's update in the patch notes:



If they're taking PDT away they should at least give them back Charm. Let them have something.

I hated our days of relying on charm and if we go back to those I'm never using bst again. If I wanted disposable I'd have leveled smn instead. Claim loss crap people used to grief and having to throw dozens of weak mobs at something to win {No thanks.}

I can only pray SE doesn't go to far and gives us something close to the 66%~75% range because people thinking 50% is a one size fits all understand nothing. I'm not going to elaborate because it completely falls on deaf ears. If it goes down to 50%, our strategies and gear will change and we'll kill the same things slower. And my static will stop letting me bst and we'll have to get lucky on proc ing fast+kill cactaur before fanatics wears.



If SE is going to clamp down on PDT (thanks for adding that pet: -3%pdt backpiece btw) then they could focus more on giving BST more pet evasion. Also a thf type Puk jug would be nice with Z.Mantle. Shadows would make it the new standard and we'd never touch -pdt again. For all the crying your average DD has more damage mitigation than any pet, even at the unrealistic 100% marke a DD can totally negate a single target nuke and be healed far more rapidly then a pet which is why pet food cures are big (not to mention expensive).

[Greatguardian]

Two Blus can pretty much stun/Reaving Wind lock the cactuar into a lump of clay. Also Migawari.

[GlobalVariable]

Two Blus can pretty much stun/Reaving Wind lock the cactuar into a lump of clay. Also Migawari.

That great if you have 2 blu's. I don't. I DO have a bst, and it was getting used. I hope the few people willing to let me bst are still willing after this. And I hear migawari is short not that I have that either. We made use of what we have.

[Greatguardian]

You can fulltime Migawari if you get Haste buffs. The only issue is the fact that it wears once it's consumed, but you can just stop TP feed if you use up Migawari and the timer's not back yet.

[GlobalVariable]

You can fulltime Migawari if you get Haste buffs. The only issue is the fact that it wears once it's consumed, but you can just stop TP feed if you use up Migawari and the timer's not back yet.

So people complaining about it are doinitwrong. Good to know, I have levelin nin in my to-do list but its only lv50 from pre abyssea days right now (haven't touched it in 3 years, got busy with rdm instead) so I have a lot to learn.

[Zyeriis]

abyssite of lenity, atma of the apocalypse, twilight mail + helm and the exp/kill ratio increase. Sorry, there is no meaningful exp penalty for death.

Keep grasping at straws. You are deliberately IGNORING the real reasons and details that matter.

Good try. I almost believed you were honest, but you and Leon are stuck in 2004. You have such a bias against it that you don't examine any details.

Argument to nerf bst: I hate bst cuz they shouldn't be able to do anything that doesn't make them conform to how I think the game should be played.

Argument not to nerf it: Its not broken. Don't submit to noisy haters.

Who's ignoring things? Lol @ saying everyone's argument is: "I hate BST so much! It suxzors! LolBST." Who's grasping at straws again? Sorry, no, go back and re-read things. I was calling for people to exploit BST's pdt -100%.

Just because it isn't being exploited/used doesn't mean it's not broken.

You have such a bias for it that you don't examine any details.

[blowfin]

Evasion caps and mob TP moves can easily have higher innate ACC. That's a problem even Yuly would face, but THFs or NINs can't exactly pull 1000+ cures out of their butt for sustained durations and even DNC's option comes at a price. If they die, that's it. There's no running around until timer's ready or just popping a new jug and Snarling away your enmity. The concept of disposable pets has always been problematic in this manner, even as far back as Carby kiting. With no true penalty toward the master for a pet death, you eventually get scenarios like this popping up since they gain more freedom to screw around and find things that work. Of course, even if BSTs lost some EXP each time they let a pet die, it doesn't solve this particular issue.

You make it sound like Yuly doesn't run at 80k a stack and pet food is free.


Your SMN don't ahve anymore -100% PDT, are you still able play the job and kill NM? I am sure the answer is yes, then there no real argument to not nerf BST job.

SMN have exactly the same thing with the right atmas. At least get your facts straight before you whine.

By the way, I can take 0 damage on my BLM and completely monopolize quite a few EXP camps. Let's nerf that too. While we're at it lets nerf MNK damage and Charged Whisker for BLU. It makes my e-peen feel quite small indeed.


If you're a DNC or something that can hold stuff, pull two or 3 NMs to him (like Iratham or something that doesn't go away easily) and MPK him.

Evasion tanks too, time for a nerf.

Oh yeah, and apart from the fact that it further screwed our Empy WS, the recent crit. rate increase REALLY helped BST a lot.:rolleyes:

[GlobalVariable]

You make it sound like Yuly doesn't run at 80k a stack and pet food is free. They also leave out that it has longer recast that cure. It ain't like I can spam it.

[Aldersyde]

Seriously, does SE not test anything they put in their game at all? It's hard to swallow that this was a glitch when they fixed an similar issue with avatars a few months back. Is it such a leap in logic for these people that if one type of pet is not working as intended then, gasp, maybe ALL pets aren't working as intended? Sweet Jeebus, nice ability to extrapolate there devs.

Well, since it seems that SE needs everything spelled out for them on things that are glitched or not working as intended, charmable mobs are glitched in all 9 Abyssea zones. Mobs that are charamble everywhere else in the game can't be charmed here. According to the lore concerning Abyssea, adventurers from Vanadiel are needed to save that world because they can acquire power that those native to Abyssea can't. With atmas breaking all the rules, bst should not only be able to charm mobs they normally can, they should have the power to charm larger mobs as well (malboro, rocs, vines, buffalo). Charm shouldn't be restricted in Abyssea. No other job in the game has their primary JA restricted like bst does. Make job-specific atma that lets bst use their native ability or put it on AoA or something. I saved the world, as a 90 bst I think I can handle charming an otherworldly bunny.

Ya, ya....qq. But when in Rome, you do as the Romans do. I want a statement from the reps here on why it took so long to discover this issue when they've already fixed a similar one with smn. I also want to know why charm can't be used in Abyssea. I don't think either request is unreasonable.

[Zyeriis]

Seriously, does SE not test anything they put in their game at all? It's hard to swallow that this was a glitch when they fixed an similar issue with avatars a few months. Is it such a leap in logic for these people that if one type of pet is not working as intended then, gasp, maybe ALL pets aren't working as intended? Sweet Jeebus, nice ability to extrapolate there devs.

Well, since it seems that SE needs everything spelled out for them on things that are glitched or not working as intended, charmable mobs are glitched in all 9 Abyssea zones. Mobs that are charamble everywhere else in the game can't be charmed here. According to the lore concerning Abyssea, adventurers from Vanadiel are needed to save that world because they can acquire power that those native to Abyssea can't. With atmas breaking all the rules, bst should not only be able to charm mobs they normally can, they should have the power to charm larger mobs as well (malboro, rocs, vines, buffalo). Charm shouldn't be restricted in Abyssea. No other job in the game has their primary JA restricted like bst does. Make job-specific atma that lets bst use their native ability or put it on AoA or something. I saved the world, as a 90 bst I think I can handle charming an otherworldly bunny.

Ya, ya....qq. But when in Rome, you do as the Romans do. I want a statement from the reps here on why it took so long to discover this issue when they've already fixed a similar one with smn. I also want to know why charm can't be used in Abyssea. I don't think either request is unreasonable.

Well, I posted my thoughts as to why you can't charm in abyssea. It mostly boiled down to not being able to just throw charmed things at the NMs (because you can't in about 90% of other "endgame" activities).


Well theres good reason why BST can't charm in abyssea, and not surprisingly enough, it's nearly identical to why BST having 100% pdt- is broken. Apparently almost knows that if you sub BST on a job that is equal to or lower to your BST as a main, you can charm things just as effectively as you would be able to as BST main. BRD/BST can charm just about as well as BST/??? as can PLD/BST. Leading to potential exploitation in exp parties (see below) and everyone subbing BST. How is this similar to the -100% PDT? It could lead to people just throwing pets at NMs with charm on every job in the game. "But they could do that outside of abyssea too" That's not really true if you think about it. Where were sky gods? On secluded islands. Dynamis? Can't charm beastmen. Limbus? Can't charm the mobs in there (from what I recall). Einherjar? can't charm mobs in there. HNMs? Wouldn't go too well, they would wreck the mobs in those zones and get you killed. Sea? I don't remember if Lumorians are charmable, don't think/doubt they are. ZNMs are about the only thing you could actually throw charmed pets at effectively that I can recall (aside for SCNMs which were pretty much the same thing but in WotG).

On the other hand, It is also very likely that the reason you cannot charm in Abyssea is due to how exp is gained in a completely different manner than it is outside of abyssea. In that you create an exp chain by killing the same mob over and over. BST would be able to exploit this system even further with charm.

You could argue that they could just remove the exp off of a mob that was previously charmed like they do outside of abyssea but with the spaghetti coding and the compeltely different setup as to how exp is obtained, it would create errors and bugs within the system.

Disclaimer: The above post was, in majority, off-topic barring a few comparisons to the 100% pdt-exploitability.

[blowfin]

Oh I have another request for my nerf list. Can we ban players who dualbox, they're up in my business all the time, fighting MY mobs.

[Khajit]

Where is my Apoc autoreraise nerf? Bitches can hold a mob for an eternity longer than a bst can. I'm not even a bst and i can agree this nerf is bullshit made to appease some idiot bitching about stuff he doesn't understand. Don't want bst to be able to keep a pet for a long period of time? Then let them actually charm something and stop letting anything a bst is fighting be so damned easy to steal.
You wanna know what happens to a bst/smn/etcpetjob when they try to fight anything? The mob gets jacked because they go yellow easily. Bst cant even join in in freakin endgame outside of bst centric linkshells because of that.

[Aldersyde]

@ Zyeriis: Well, your speculation is nice. The thing is I want to hear it from the horse's mouth.

You're also wrong. Have you never seen a pet ls do sky and send a flock of flamingos at one of the lesser sky gods? Birds can be taken in teleporters. You speak as if charm is an exploit when it's a JA. If a pet ls wants to take down a big nm, why shouldn't they use their native JAs to do so?

If it's game mechanics in Abyssea that don't allow charm in Abyssea that's fine. But there has to be some kind of statement from SE saying that. It seems from the perspective of the average bst, the job just keeps getting stomped on a regular basis. No elemental proc from bst's primary weapon, no decent damage rating scythes to take advantage of 2-handed buff, no decent ws from said scythe, and can't use the fundamental job ability. The issue for me is that SE keeps taking away from bst and not giving anything back.

[Greatguardian]

@ Zyeriis: Well, your speculation is nice. The thing is I want to hear it from the horse's mouth.

You're also wrong. Have you never seen a pet ls do sky and send a flock of flamingos at one of the lesser sky gods? Birds can be taken in teleporters. You speak as if charm is an exploit when it's a JA. If a pet ls wants to take down a big nm, why shouldn't they use their native JAs to do so?

If it's game mechanics in Abyssea that don't allow charm in Abyssea that's fine. But there has to be some kind of statement from SE saying that. It seems from the perspective of the average bst, the job just keeps getting stomped on a regular basis. No elemental proc from bst's primary weapon, no decent damage rating scythes to take advantage of 2-handed buff, no decent ws from said scythe, and can't use the fundamental job ability. The issue for me is that SE keeps taking away from bst and not giving anything back.

Teleporters shut down when a Shijin is popped. You can't go down and back up with a new pet.

[Zyeriis]

Well, I guess it's not impossible in sky, though that wasn't what I was really referring to. I was referring more throwing a charmed mob at the NM, it dying, charming another one and throwing it at the NM, and repeating that over and over. This can't be done in sky because the teleporter gets locked when the god is popped. Which would occur in abyssea because of the abundance of same-type mobs crammed together, and their ridicufast respawns.

[blowfin]

Where is my Apoc autoreraise nerf? I'm not even a bst and i can agree this nerf is bullshit made to appease some idiot bitching about stuff he doesn't understand.

I highly doubt they're going to change the 100% PDT cap too much on BST, it looks more like a bug fix from the last update.

It would seem a bit stupid after 5 months of it being in the game to suddenly remove it, when the problem with SMN was already patched. Not to mention that fact that's it's going to piss off a large portion of the playerbase.

[Melodicya]

Hello Everyone!

While we understand this is a very hot topic at the moment, a number of posts in this thread have unfortunately come down to personal attacks, so we will be closing this thread at this time.

As always, please feel free to visit the following page for reference on the forum guideline:

FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines
http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1

Keep an eye on the updates forum regarding any official statements or changes regarding this gameplay mechanic.