Any new HNM coming?

[Orson]

You'll find plenty of botters who hate HNM, and that part of the community. Botting isn't restricted to HNMLS members.

Kings and such is where botting make the big impact though. There are plenty of fish bots and other types of programs but they don't impact other players as acutely.

The funny part is people like Natenn are so delusional. Nobody wants this game to end up ridiculously easy but long waits between being able do the content and forcing people to play at inappropriate hours makes no sense.

[Cream_Soda]

You'll find plenty of botters who hate HNM, and that part of the community. Botting isn't restricted to HNMLS members.
Never claimed you wouldn't but when it comes to like botting stuns or cures, that doesn't directly affect other players. When you bot claims, it does. This doesn't apply to only HNMs, its just a lot more common there. It also applies to regular NMs as well.

[Randwolf]

Also, make the drops Rare/Ex. That way you at least cut down on the campers to those who either want the item or those who have a purchaser in the zone.

[Runespider]

Having the best stuff should be earned, not givin to you on a silver plate like abyssea.

How did you earn it anyway? The drop rates were annoying if you were legit but since botting was so widespread certain shells dominated and got gear pretty quick, hell if you were a good claimer(by botting) you got priority for gear in the bot shells. Do you think the NMs were hard?..actually did you even kill the hard NMs? Were you among the first to kill AV, did you kill PW before the level increase, have you tried to destroy Rani with no curor buffs and atmas?

HNM were a piece of piss, Nidd, KB(lol), Aspid, Dark Ixion(shell on my server wiped continually to this over and over but again, easy NM), SW, Lambton worm, Cerb, Khim, Tiamat etc were all easy kills. So don't class that stuff as difficult endgame content, sticking though 3 hours of Dyna was harder.

[Swords]

How did you earn it anyway? The drop rates were annoying if you were legit but since botting was so widespread certain shells dominated and got gear pretty quick, hell if you were a good claimer(by botting) you got priority for gear in the bot shells. Do you think the NMs were hard?..actually did you even kill the hard NMs? Were you among the first to kill AV, did you kill PW before the level increase, have you tried to destroy Rani with no curor buffs and atmas?

HNM were a piece of piss, Nidd, KB(lol), Aspid, Dark Ixion(shell on my server wiped continually to this over and over but again, easy NM), SW, Lambton worm, Cerb, Khim, Tiamat etc were all easy kills. So don't class that stuff as difficult endgame content, sticking though 3 hours of Dyna was harder.

Thats partially true, pre-ToAU most bot's werent that sophisticated and people did have a fair chance to claim. Granted there were exceptions to this rule, a guy we used to call SuperRaplh on Asura used to do all the claiming for his shell with a custom packetsniffer bot and usually claimed unless it popped before he got there or he had some computer problem like lag. I'm just thankful he never gave the sourcecode to others to bot with.

Anyways, HNM's have been around since pre-CoP so roughly 8-9 years now. In that time (even before the level raise) gear has significantly become better, most blowing the older stuff out of the water. If you tried comparing optimal endgame gear on RDM at 75 back then versus gear just before Abyssea came out you'd laugh. Given the community has gotten a better grasp on game mechanics, it still doesn't change the fact players got upgrades while the HNM's pretty much stayed the same.

And before anyone says it, rage timers were put in specifically to keep people from holding a HNM/NM for long periods of time till friends got on or it moved into their timezone.

[Natenn]

Its like arguing with a broken record...not debating this over and over. Reread my old posts.

[Karbuncle]

Its like arguing with a broken record...not debating this over and over. Reread my old posts.

The same could be said for you though, Or any human who is set in their ideals.

Its Obvious when people with conflicting ideas and Ideals interact on a common subject, They will each defend themselves to hell and back.

Some arguments are bound to come back to the same basic reasoning :)

[Psubond]

naten, you play on ps2 and want to go back to the days of old school hnm. you embody the worst cancers of this game.

[LeaderofAtlantis]

I've often wondered why the 3 Zilart Beastmen don't have HNM Leaders. I mean, the 3 original Beastmen have soloable leaders now, sure, but the Zilart Beastmen have never had such leaders. It would be cool to finally see them get leaders. I mean having an Antican that looks like no other or a Sahagin or Tonberry that looks like no other would be great I think. I also wouldn't mind seeing a more formidable boss for the Gigas make an appearance. He could appear in Vunkerl in the past so as not to hinder people in Delkfutt's Tower doing Zilart Missions or A Crystalline Prophecy.

And as a side note, since I mentioned it - why not have a path for us to finally re-enter the present day versions of Grauberg, Vunkerl, and For Karugo-Narugo. Maybe have a story line that explains the reason they were sealed off were to keep some of the most dangerous creatures trapped, but being adventurers, we want to see what awaits us, obviously. So you could have 3 zones to put new HNMs. Grauberg, for example, I always felt had the potential to have a crazy HNM up at the very top where you can look out and see the Crag of Dem amongst all the Wyverns.

[woie]

the real life card? well played sir, well played.


Edit: i would be happy, why add the best gear to stuff that can be spammed? at least with HNM you see who really put the time/work in to earn it.

no what you see are A) elietist pricks who stood on evryone to get it or B) botters

[Zaknafein]

What was that? Could you speak up... all I heard was whine whine whine boo hoo boo hoo...

[Swords]

I've often wondered why the 3 Zilart Beastmen don't have HNM Leaders. I mean, the 3 original Beastmen have soloable leaders now, sure, but the Zilart Beastmen have never had such leaders. It would be cool to finally see them get leaders. I mean having an Antican that looks like no other or a Sahagin or Tonberry that looks like no other would be great I think. I also wouldn't mind seeing a more formidable boss for the Gigas make an appearance. He could appear in Vunkerl in the past so as not to hinder people in Delkfutt's Tower doing Zilart Missions or A Crystalline Prophecy.

Tonberries do have their own leader called Grav'iton, you face him during RoZ Mission 4.

The Ocean Sahagin I believe is considered the Sahagin's leader along with Coral and Abyss Sahagin. Considering they wanted little to do with the Crystal War, and wanted to stick to their life as simple fisherman they probably didn't need anything beyond a village elder.

From the Bastok Rank missions you hear mention of a "Queen" which makes sense for an ant colony, but you don't see her in the game which also makes sense because a queen ant is typically defenseless aside from her army. In light of this I think the Antican Consul is considered the head general of the Antican Armies.

Now Gigas on the other hand don't have a leader. I think alot of it has to do with the Gigas were merly hired as Mercenaries and Buldiers from their northern homeland by the Shadow Lord. They were pretty much abandoned after the Shadow Lord's defeat leaving them scattered about much like the Orc and Giga's remnants in Tavnazia. Being they're intelligence is lacking, poor communication skills, and lack of time spent in the Southern Contenients it would be a miracle they would ever become organized enough to have a leader.

[LeaderofAtlantis]

Tonberries do have their own leader called Grav'iton, you face him during RoZ Mission 4.

The Ocean Sahagin I believe is considered the Sahagin's leader along with Coral and Abyss Sahagin. Considering they wanted little to do with the Crystal War, and wanted to stick to their life as simple fisherman they probably didn't need anything beyond a village elder.

From the Bastok Rank missions you hear mention of a "Queen" which makes sense for an ant colony, but you don't see her in the game which also makes sense because a queen ant is typically defenseless aside from her army. In light of this I think the Antican Consul is considered the head general of the Antican Armies.

Now Gigas on the other hand don't have a leader. I think alot of it has to do with the Gigas were merly hired as Mercenaries and Buldiers from their northern homeland by the Shadow Lord. They were pretty much abandoned after the Shadow Lord's defeat leaving them scattered about much like the Orc and Giga's remnants in Tavnazia. Being they're intelligence is lacking, poor communication skills, and lack of time spent in the Southern Contenients it would be a miracle they would ever become organized enough to have a leader.

I do remember Grav'iton, but was thinking more along the lines of something that replaces the Tonberry Pontifex in the Den of Rancor. The same goes for the Ocean Sahagin and the Antican Consul. To me, these are like the Yagudo Avatar, Orcish Overlord, and Diamond Quadavs for those Beastmen.

Now as for the Gigas, you're probably right. Their leader, if it did exist, would be in their homeland which we can't get to at the moment.

[Mirage]

He could be on vacation in fauregandi or something

[axlzero]

What if you could not bot the nm i would like to see the following changes done to fafnir, niddogg, behemoth king, behemoth, adamantoise and aspid

when any wyrm appears in zone the fly in from way up high and strafe the ground with fire and other attacks where they are gonna land. Can also do touchdown on landing makeing everyone within range stunned. Anyone withing range of earea is severly crippled so everyone will half to run at it from some distance away if the wyrm is a non flyer then it appears out of a posion cloud and spike flails wildly for 30 seconds also reduce the time that they spawn from 21 hours to 6 hours. also would like to see that fafnir and niddogg can appear at the same time together and if all wyrms are not killed within a certaion amount of time the surviveing wyrms start to move from zone to zone til they get to a gathering point once there any wyrms killed reappear and you half to fight all 6 if they are not killed withing 12 hours then then bahamut spawns with them i think the gathering points should be a big map earea so low level players can see them if they dare but can avoid them.

behemoth and king behemoth should be updated also i notice that the behemoths dominion were KB spawns have high overlooking cliffs what if the behemoths jumped down from those cliffs and caused a massive AOE lightling shockwave from the impact. To make things more fun 4 behemoths appear at a time and kaiser behemoths become a new thing kaiser could drop the same things at king behemoth. every time the behemoths spawn 1 kaiser behemoth spawns with them. When king behemoth spawns he is protected by 4 kaiser behemoths 8 guardian behemoths and 16 regular behemoths that appear all over the zone also king behemoth because of the new found difficulty from this should be 100% drop on d ring guardian behemoth should be 25% and kaiser 10% and pixie earring could drop with defending ring

i have some other ideas for aspid there basically the same as behemoth i would like to see the hnms drop a item that can be reused that ill allow people to force pop the fights every 24 hours each key item for a specific hnm

[Swords]

While the intro would be cool it might be a little over the top. However a stun zone just before/during spawn idea wouldnt be a half bad idea, the only problem is botters would still win because their bots would go off the moment stun wears so it wouldn't be much different than if it just spawned. They could always make it where the duration of stun is random, but then you run into the problem of is that really fair claim because first ones to move again will get claim. I suppose you could throw a monkey wrench into the theory, by saying the random duration would leave said claimer potentially defenseless if for instance a WHM or BLM claimed but the rest of the group were stunned for another 30 seconds leaving them to potentially die. But I digress, I am just throwing some random thoughts out on it.

[skirmishinghowl]

idea sounds good till you think of the fact botters will also have speed hacks or THFs flee will win everytime, I do not support the idea of raising the levels, want a challenge? go solo those NMs, or don't grab crour buffs/atmas to fight in abyssea, there is plenty of things to do for a challenge other then holding onto old crap, seriously why not just say return us to level 75 instead? all HNMs fixed! there is no use in gaining levels if everything is still hard to kill with 50 players, might as well say they should raise the level of west ronfaure rabbits to 90 too since they are no challenge now, end rant

[Cursed]

I want a few zones where players can engage each other without being under the effect of charm.
make these new zones have some VERY desirable HNMs pop.
I want to see players fighting lvl 150 HNMs, while other players pick them off one at a time.
This would do so much for the game as it stands.
If not for the pure LOL factor, impliment this to give RNGs a reason for existing.
Think of how fun it would be to sidewidner>barrage>sidewinder>EES some Ochain/Dring PLD in the booty while an HNM nomnoms his face

[Orson]

It's hard to believe there are actually people with ideas that are worse than Natenn's. I honestly wonder how many of these people have been in a serious HNMLS. It's no wonder we had so many years of game sucking if these were similar to the average suggestion back in the day.

Herp de derp... You know what would be fun if we had it so we did an event that lost us exp, gil, and randomly destroyed pieces of gear, oh did mention it'd be full PVP too so that you would never get rewarded because idiots would just spend solo their time ganking instead of fighting the retarded AV clones through out the areas

[Dazusu]

It's hard to believe there are actually people with ideas that are worse than Natenn's.


forcing people to play at inappropriate hours makes no sense.

People have stated time and time again that the HNM/Fights that are being requested don't have to be 21-24 hour pops, they can pop hourly. So why you, and others like you, are hanging on details of past HNM like this is unknown.

Similarly, if more long spawn HNM are added; you don't have to play at unreasonable hours. If you're not online, you don't kill it. Simple.

But we get it, you don't like HNM. Spend your time constructively instead of whining and posting anti-HNM drivel in this thread. There's casual content out there for you. No one is asking for less of that to be added, so why do you need to sit here and cry because some people are asking for HNM?

Edit:
As for those of you complaining about bots; there are many work arounds SE could use. One of them being DI/SW pop-like systems (and people stating THF or Flee Hackers would always claim them have clearly never camped such HNM). Others include increasing lockout time, then randomly choosing a claimant from all of those who have acted on the monster during lockout. The list is endless.

I don't think the HNM system should be dropped because of Square's inability to fix a problem that's existed for years. How about taking a few days to figure out a fix for bots (like it's hard?) then get some new HNM out there (again, for those who want to participate in that - if you don't, more power to you.)

[Randwolf]

People have stated time and time again that the HNM/Fights that are being requested don't have to be 21-24 hour pops, they can pop hourly. So why you, and others like you, are hanging on details of past HNM like this is unknown....

...As for those of you complaining about bots; there are many work arounds SE could use. One of them being DI/SW pop-like systems (and people stating THF or Flee Hackers would always claim them have clearly never camped such HNM). Others include increasing lockout time, then randomly choosing a claimant from all of those who have acted on the monster during lockout. The list is endless.

I don't think the HNM system should be dropped because of Square's inability to fix a problem that's existed for years. How about taking a few days to figure out a fix for bots (like it's hard?) then get some new HNM out there (again, for those who want to participate in that - if you don't, more power to you.)
For the first one, we had a couple people who were supporting the old HNM style. I think the reaction is such hatred of that system that they really want to make it clear that we don't want that again.

Yes, and some work-arounds for the bots is a definite must. Claim competition would not be as painful if there was a combination of luck and skill in claiming.

[Swords]

I don't think the HNM system should be dropped because of Square's inability to fix a problem that's existed for years. How about taking a few days to figure out a fix for bots (like it's hard?) then get some new HNM out there (again, for those who want to participate in that - if you don't, more power to you.)

I don't think the HNM system should be either, but a major problem that comes with fixing bots is it doesn't take long to work around whatever "fix" SE does in most cases. Like the little time delay SE had implemented like 4 years ago, after they figured out the delay the bots were back in action. I think if SE played off that idea however and perhaps randomized the duration which it cannot be claimed, would make it harder for bot programmers to counteract.

[Randwolf]

I don't think the HNM system should be either, but a major problem that comes with fixing bots is it doesn't take long to work around whatever "fix" SE does in most cases. Like the little time delay SE had implemented like 4 years ago, after they figured out the delay the bots were back in action. I think if SE played off that idea however and perhaps randomized the duration which it cannot be claimed, would make it harder for bot programmers to counteract.
That method will still feed into the staggered bot approach. They are going to need to be more creative than manipulating the claim time.

[Orson]

People have stated time and time again that the HNM/Fights that are being requested don't have to be 21-24 hour pops, they can pop hourly. So why you, and others like you, are hanging on details of past HNM like this is unknown.

Similarly, if more long spawn HNM are added; you don't have to play at unreasonable hours. If you're not online, you don't kill it. Simple.

But we get it, you don't like HNM. Spend your time constructively instead of whining and posting anti-HNM drivel in this thread. There's casual content out there for you. No one is asking for less of that to be added, so why do you need to sit here and cry because some people are asking for HNM?

No, I'm not going to shut up because you tell me to. Anti-HNM drivel? This isn't some pride rally that I'm against, get over yourself. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Saying that I'm against free spawning HNMs and demonstrating the reasons as to why they are a bad thing is no less constructive than people with ridiculous suggestions that would be terrible in practice.

Most of the people wanting free spawn HNMs are asking for long respawn timers if you actually read most the thread. Granted there's only a minority of people who actually are asking for free spawn HNMs in general. So I can see maybe it's not a huge amount that want 24+ respawns.

Free spawn HNMs set up the way the way most of you want will always be a bad idea. You guys for the most part insist on having HNM either drop the best gear exclusively or at a significantly better rate. This is a BS system because it boils down to luck. You can sit there and say, "oh well, to compensate we'll just make them hard" but why can't the instanced versions be the hard ones with a sustained point system or a trophy system that requires some one to fight the NM many times to get the drops. Why not put the best armor on the instanced version and have you obtain it in a some what set period of time. Emp weapons are a great example of this. In the past some one could luck out and get a Ridill after 2 mths of camping where as another person might wait 6 mths just to see one drop to their LS.

You keep spouting this nonsense that freespawn HNMs are the real hardcore content because it's "competitive." Even if you could actually eliminate bots. It's completely based on luck. If you can't figure that out then obviously you haven't really done much in the way of HNMs or you're one of the people that was either lucky, had no life, or was in bed with LS leaders.

That's the root of the problem most of the people in this thread don't want the game to be fair. Many of you are under the ridiculous attitude that if the person doesn't belong to a huge HNMLS or doesn't spend 6+ hrs on the game every night that they shouldn't be entitled to the best gear. I'm not asking for everything to be totally casual but abyssea is a nice change of pace from what we put up with before. I'm against the lotto method of rewarding people. Some chance is nice but we're better off having chance like Emp weapons where the difference is one person takes 40 kills to complete a trial and another takes 30 because they used a Thf. I never want to see it where you'll be killing something weeks or even months and never see a drop or make any progress to your goal.

[Orenwald]

they could make old-school HNMs with the old style of popping, and then make High Kindred Crest BCNM fights that drop the same crap for the people who don't want to deal with all the bogus that comes with camping HNMs (like bots).

[Orson]

they could make old-school HNMs with the old style of popping, and then make High Kindred Crest BCNM fights that drop the same crap for the people who don't want to deal with all the bogus that comes with camping HNMs (like bots).

Ya there's no reason to add camping just because the odd person really enjoys blocking other players from enjoying content.

[Runespider]

This I think, from what I've read so far of what's coming in the update is going to be the most intresting part. Not to fight the HNM but to see if the devs have a) Taken notice of how much hatred there has been for the old spawn system since it's creation. b) Noticed how the old system promoted botting and indeed made a handful of people a lot of money selling them and turned the top tier endgamers into RMT. c) If they take any notice of their own forum, seeing the majority of players are against a stupid spawn system.

Really intrested to see what pop system they go with.

[Zaknafein]

You forgot option D) Don't cater to whiny casuals just cuz they cry louder than your average player.

[Dazusu]

If you can't figure that out then obviously you haven't really done much in the way of HNMs

Wrong.


or you're one of the people that was either lucky

Wrong.


had no life

Wrong.


or was in bed with LS leaders.

Wrong.


most of the people in this thread don't want the game to be fair

I believe my posts have asked for HNM that could offer a title, and no drops. Or drops the same as in Abyssea - and at the same rate. Me, myself and I would be completely happy with that. I'm not asking for Ridill 2.0 or Herald's Gaiters 2.0. I'm asking for something that can't be killed with extreme ease by anyone who feels like killing it. Really, MMO's aren't meant to be this easy.

Don't you understand that we're getting all this amazing gear - and there isn't even anything worth testing it on?



I'm not asking for everything to be totally casual

Well let's be honest, you pretty much are - due to your previous sentence. In which you essentially said (and I'm paraphrasing); "Even if you can't play 6 hours a night, you should still be entitled to the best gear". So yes, you want it casual, and no, you don't want a level of difficulty that you can't/don't have the time to participate in.

How about a HNM that can't be botted, and had an extremely long window (I'm talking days); and if it were to be botted, it would require a whole prepared Linkshell - for the simple reason the difficulty is so extreme, holding with a PLD,BRD,WHM (like in the 'olden days') wouldn't be possible.

Is this where you argue you don't want to have to be in a Linkshell to kill something, you'd rather do it with your group of friends? Well again, and I'll keep repeating this point: That's fantastic. You have Abyssea.

Now something for the rest of us please.

It's also evident that the old HNM system will not be making a comeback. This was solidified when they announced a year and a bit ago "There will be new HNM in the next version update" -- Then we got VNM.

At that point world spawns were over. Still, I maintain my argument that it wouldn't be hurt to put a multizone HNM in like Sandworm/Dark Ixion. For those of you who hate camping, again, there's absolutely no obligation to participate in it.

[Natenn]

You ppl aren't gonna deactivate your accounts if free world pops are brought back, like i said b4: old ppl will come back to the game if they do. $ > the rest.

[Snaplin]

Wrong.



Wrong.



Wrong.



Wrong.



I believe my posts have asked for HNM that could offer a title, and no drops. Or drops the same as in Abyssea - and at the same rate. Me, myself and I would be completely happy with that. I'm not asking for Ridill 2.0 or Herald's Gaiters 2.0. I'm asking for something that can't be killed with extreme ease by anyone who feels like killing it. Really, MMO's aren't meant to be this easy.

Don't you understand that we're getting all this amazing gear - and there isn't even anything worth testing it on?




Well let's be honest, you pretty much are - due to your previous sentence. In which you essentially said (and I'm paraphrasing); "Even if you can't play 6 hours a night, you should still be entitled to the best gear". So yes, you want it casual, and no, you don't want a level of difficulty that you can't/don't have the time to participate in.

How about a HNM that can't be botted, and had an extremely long window (I'm talking days); and if it were to be botted, it would require a whole prepared Linkshell - for the simple reason the difficulty is so extreme, holding with a PLD,BRD,WHM (like in the 'olden days') wouldn't be possible.

Is this where you argue you don't want to have to be in a Linkshell to kill something, you'd rather do it with your group of friends? Well again, and I'll keep repeating this point: That's fantastic. You have Abyssea.

Now something for the rest of us please.

It's also evident that the old HNM system will not be making a comeback. This was solidified when they announced a year and a bit ago "There will be new HNM in the next version update" -- Then we got VNM.

At that point world spawns were over. Still, I maintain my argument that it wouldn't be hurt to put a multizone HNM in like Sandworm/Dark Ixion. For those of you who hate camping, again, there's absolutely no obligation to participate in it.

You're my hero.... ;_;


People have stated time and time again that the HNM/Fights that are being requested don't have to be 21-24 hour pops, they can pop hourly. So why you, and others like you, are hanging on details of past HNM like this is unknown.

Similarly, if more long spawn HNM are added; you don't have to play at unreasonable hours. If you're not online, you don't kill it. Simple.

But we get it, you don't like HNM. Spend your time constructively instead of whining and posting anti-HNM drivel in this thread. There's casual content out there for you. No one is asking for less of that to be added, so why do you need to sit here and cry because some people are asking for HNM?

Edit:
As for those of you complaining about bots; there are many work arounds SE could use. One of them being DI/SW pop-like systems (and people stating THF or Flee Hackers would always claim them have clearly never camped such HNM). Others include increasing lockout time, then randomly choosing a claimant from all of those who have acted on the monster during lockout. The list is endless.

I don't think the HNM system should be dropped because of Square's inability to fix a problem that's existed for years. How about taking a few days to figure out a fix for bots (like it's hard?) then get some new HNM out there (again, for those who want to participate in that - if you don't, more power to you.)

Seriously this for the thread.^^

[Mrbeansman]

You ppl aren't gonna deactivate your accounts if free world pops are brought back, like i said b4: old ppl will come back to the game if they do. $ > the rest.

Pretty sure people will leave en mas if you bring back world spawns.

Really the argument that people running around with ebodys before einherjar worked really hard is stupid. There are people without ebody who had worked just as hard as those who did they were just unlucky.

[Swords]

Really the argument that people running around with ebodys before einherjar worked really hard is stupid. There are people without ebody who had worked just as hard as those who did they were just unlucky.

QFT on that note. I've been after W.Legs for nearly 7 years now and have been through God only knows how many Kirins to try and get them. I'm past the point where I think I'm going to really get them, because sky is pretty much dead for most shells now, but I still jump on the oppertunities I get for Kirin runs.

Anyways wether or not they introduce any new HNM's through whatever method they use, I really don't think it would make or break the current system unless there's something in it for potentially every job that totally outclasses Abyssean gear.

[Catsby]

Devs should build and open a server for the masochore crowd that claims they enjoy camping and rushing mobs. The server would have all the content before abyssea and lvl 80 level cap. There would be a mad rush of all these so called hard-core players for a couple months and then the place would be desolate when they realize standing in dragon's aery for 3 against 200+ other people is less fun than running salvage with 3-4 of their friends.

There may actually be people out that enjoy the way things used to be but I'm sure most of the people that say they do are only frustrated that newer content is faster.

[Sureal]

holy hell, either this thread is full of trolls or just incredibly dense people,

look, we ALL want a challenge, NO ONE wants everything handed to them

what you guys are saying is that because we dont want world pop hnm's is that we want everything on a silver platter and no challenge, seriously? that is what you think?

i welcome challenging fights, i want it, i love it, stratagies are what i love about this game, working them out, seeing them in action, being able to recover from a mistake

what i do not welcome is sitting in one spot for 3 hours hoping i get to fight, when i was in an hnmls i would log on almost praying there was no windows for a while, on my day off of work my day was almost more work, sit in DA for 3 hours, maybe fight dragon, sit in BD 3 hours, maybe fight behemoth, sit in VoS for 3 hours, maybe fight turtle, then most likely camp whitegate for tiamat, cerb, or khimaira pop, then pray we didnt have dynamis or limbus that day

seriously, if you find that 12ish hours of doing nothing fun, then uhhhh, yeah, more power too ya

now, as for having everything handed to us, i have a little story, so after about 7 years of playing i took an extended break and took up some WoW, where a guy in my guild was complaining that it took 2 months or so to get a drop he wanted to which i let him know that my valor surcoat took me over 5 years to get so he should man up and quit crying. i am in no way at all saying we should just have everything handed to us as soon as we create our characters, but 5 years to get one drop, and that 5 years wasnt with me only going to xarcabard 4 times, i ran our dynamis shell and scheduled at least 4 xarcabards a month for 2 years, and had been doing xarcabard for 2-3 years before that just not as frequently, probably 95% of that time i was first in line for the surcoat, it never dropped, never, IT TOOK ME 5 FREAKING YEARS TO GET ONE DROP, do you not understand how stupid this is, this does not equate to better or worse player, this equates to luck pure and simple, ive seen complete tards walk in to their first xarcabard, pull the first group of mobs, kill about 2 or 3, get valor surcoat, continue to suck

as for challenge, ive already told you where to find a challenge, go fight AV, go fight PW, not saying they are unkillable anymore, but they are more of a challenge than ANY of the hnm's you are saying are "challenging", when i was in hnmls our best time for fafnir was 8 mins, heard after i left they got it down to 5 mins, ripped through cerberus in around 15 mins, this is not a challenge, level cap is going to be 99, give me a lvl 120ish mob that is force pop, i want to fight it, i dont want to watch someone else fight every day, that is dumb, i pay for this game to play, not watch others play

what it all boils down to is that you want these mobs just so you can say you have better gear, what difference does it make if someone else has the same gear as you, they are paying for this game too

i dunno, i just dont get it, people that did hnm's for a long time are coming here saying "WE DONT WANT WORLD POP HNM'S" that should say something about the system

[Randwolf]

Everything he said.

I had the same experience in an HNM LS. The claiming of the mobs, the way it was, pretty much ruined the whole ambiance of the game. You knew some people were botting. You knew some people in your shell were botting also. You knew you could go botless against bots. But your chance of claiming was severely diminished. You had to lower resolution to increase your chances of claiming and the game looked like crap. You had to look for certain things the other LS might do to give away their bot and type of bot, then try to interfere with the bot. You had to choose a job/subjob that gave increased chance of claiming over what is actually a functional job combo. And, that's just my gripes on the claiming part of HNM's. The 21 - 24 hour times is yet a whole different issue.

We aren't asking for easy. We are asking for something that allows more than just a bunch of bots to claim and fight, once a day, at ungodly hours.

[Orson]

I believe my posts have asked for HNM that could offer a title, and no drops. Or drops the same as in Abyssea - and at the same rate. Me, myself and I would be completely happy with that. I'm not asking for Ridill 2.0 or Herald's Gaiters 2.0. I'm asking for something that can't be killed with extreme ease by anyone who feels like killing it. Really, MMO's aren't meant to be this easy.

Don't you understand that we're getting all this amazing gear - and there isn't even anything worth testing it on?


Well let's be honest, you pretty much are - due to your previous sentence. In which you essentially said (and I'm paraphrasing); "Even if you can't play 6 hours a night, you should still be entitled to the best gear". So yes, you want it casual, and no, you don't want a level of difficulty that you can't/don't have the time to participate in.

How about a HNM that can't be botted, and had an extremely long window (I'm talking days); and if it were to be botted, it would require a whole prepared Linkshell - for the simple reason the difficulty is so extreme, holding with a PLD,BRD,WHM (like in the 'olden days') wouldn't be possible.

Is this where you argue you don't want to have to be in a Linkshell to kill something, you'd rather do it with your group of friends? Well again, and I'll keep repeating this point: That's fantastic. You have Abyssea.

Now something for the rest of us please.

It's also evident that the old HNM system will not be making a comeback. This was solidified when they announced a year and a bit ago "There will be new HNM in the next version update" -- Then we got VNM.

At that point world spawns were over. Still, I maintain my argument that it wouldn't be hurt to put a multizone HNM in like Sandworm/Dark Ixion. For those of you who hate camping, again, there's absolutely no obligation to participate in it.

Well then I just wanted to say a lot of the things that you said make sense. If the highlighted is the main thing that you're after, I really don't have a problem with it at all. I'm fine with free spawn HNMs or other events that are a true challenge requiring a decent amount of people. Challenge in of itself is hard to maintain after most people figure out the mechanics behind (which I’ve pointed out before.) Rani was a pretty brutal fight until people figured it out (I beat it without brews it was a fun fight.) Killing it with a brew isn’t even close to the same thing.

As long free spawn HNM don't lead to an exclusionary system based around rewarding people solely on their luck it wouldn't be bad. The problem is that’s what a free spawn HNM system is based around. The problem is I think you're tying up my dislike of an unfair system with a dislike of rewarding people for hard work and team work. That's where the difference is. You should be able to get the same reward putting in the same amount of time as the next person (maybe with a small variance of chance.)

The one thing we'll have to agree to disagree on is that expecting people to play 6 hrs a day 7 days a week is excessive. Hell I've spent more time than that in the past camping HNMs but that doesn't mean it's a good thing. You'd be hard pressed to convince anyone that saying, "oh 6 hrs a day to hunt HNMs excluding exp, questing, crafting, etc. is totally reasonable." I don't even think you buy that as reasonable. You can try but I think you'll be deluding yourself. If you really spend more than 6 hrs a day on FFXI you don't have much of a life.

There's a challenge, commitment, or effort that gives things a larger sense of accomplishment when finished. The old HNM system on the other hand was basically more of an obsession about beating other LSs to the punch.

Edit: Also I want to clarify since you don't seem to understand. Emps are currently the best weapon in the game correct? Can pretty much anyone willing to put the work be able to get one even if they only play like 10 hrs a week? Yes but it'll take them significantly longer than someone who plays the game 6 hrs a day. That's what a fair system of loot availability is.


Devs should build and open a server for the masochore crowd that claims they enjoy camping and rushing mobs. The server would have all the content before abyssea and lvl 80 level cap. There would be a mad rush of all these so called hard-core players for a couple months and then the place would be desolate when they realize standing in dragon's aery for 3 against 200+ other people is less fun than running salvage with 3-4 of their friends.

There may actually be people out that enjoy the way things used to be but I'm sure most of the people that say they do are only frustrated that newer content is faster.

This is so funny but so very true. Unless a person is just ignorant. When it came to kings the only reason the majority of people camped them was because they wanted the best gear. Once they got the gear it was time to pursue relics and mythics but why farm dynamis that's for chumps. People tried their hardest to monopolize king/HNM gear to keep the prices on it high so they could simply buy their relics. The majority of the hardcore campers were only in it for the gear and the odd group was in it to rub it into other people's faces. Without the best shinies though sheep wouldn't follow people like that.

[Natenn]

I want long windows so the title/gear has more meaning then just the stats, cause of right now all titles/drops don't mean much. Need something that only drops off a hardcore NM that makes it worth killing. 6 ppl should't be enough to do "endgame". GLORY TO THE WORLD SPAWNS!

On that note here is an idea: Do something to ballista to bring it back since i highly doubt the new HNM is gonna be a windowed spawn anyway. Maby make a BP(Ballista point) system that has gear that only comes from ballista. Like normal tier BP you get from participating and then higher tier BP for Broze/Silver/Gold ballistars. Ballista was fun but it died, id go back if we could get it overhauled.

[Cream_Soda]

Idk what 6 people being able to kill a monster or not has to do with its spawn time.

The title doesn't really amount to much in either case, since you only need to kill it once, regardless. Why would longer windows make it mean more? All going to get the title sooner or later anyways.

[Natenn]

the drops a.k.a half the reason. Every person with the "best" gear on = like a school where kids are forced to wear uniforms. Right now ppl who plainly suck at the game bc its ez access to pop/brew have the same stuff ppl that don't need to brew stuff do. Kinda unfair to ppl with skill that they can actually legit beat the mob but theres no reward from it to distinguish from the noobys who brew anything that requires coordination no?

[Cream_Soda]

What does a 21-24 hour timer have to do with them making mobs outside of abyssea that you can't brew?

[Sureal]

there were players on my server with full koenig (when it actually meant somethng) that couldnt tank their way out of a wet paper bag with directions, yet i was solo tanking faf

there were players that couldnt tank an xp party (when that was the thing to do) wearing full kaiser gear, yet i was leading my ls through dynamis at breakneck speeds

yeah, the old system sure did show us who the "good" players were


natenn, you are either one hell of a troll, or so delusional that you truely believe what you are typing

[Natenn]

Didn't say kings were hard did i? The new stuff needs to be hard regardless of pop conditions. World spawns weren't supposed to be hoarded like they were, they were supposed to be "hard" due to lack of experience fighting it cause of long windows, the new HNM need to be hard even if a gimmick is found just bc the same LSs are gonna try and hoard it. Is claiming a mob every day against ToS? no its not, but if the fight is annoying ppl won't wanna fight it daily, hence theres opportunity for casual John/Jane Doe to go get whooped by it h/e many times till they get it right.

[Snaplin]

I am very pro-HNM I love camping kings, hell I even want more HNMs strike a challenge but what a lot of you don't seem to understand is you DON'T NEED 21-24 hr respawn with 3 hour windows to make it a "Challenge" the new HNMs could be JUST like camping Nid/King behe and that would be cool. Only thing most people have a complaint about is the long window time why do we need to stand in DA for 3 hours? 5 Hour Sandworm window? Really? Half my day is gone camping an HNM, Why not just lower the timers to a 1 hour window? Also you can't bash SE for making these mobs like this, I'm sure when they made these HNMs they had a mind set that Linkshells would mule at these camps and race for claim but on some servers it got to a point of having a holding party at Tiamat,Khim,Cerb which I'm sure the dev's did not have in mind.

Having a mule sit at a HNM camp and then race 3 other LS's to claim is fun as hell imo, Idk if any of you ever experienced the rush but one of the biggest adrenalin rushes for me was powder boot spam race to Khim,Cerb,Tia(Before nexus cape) trying to get there w/o Agro because if someone Important died along the way or got agro that split second could lose you a claim. THAT is what I miss about HNMs.

[Natenn]

1hr window isnt bad, like 20-21hr. But if it pops to much its value goes down. If Tia was a 2hr pop then everyone would have gaiters.

[Cream_Soda]

Didn't say kings were hard did i? The new stuff needs to be hard regardless of pop conditions. World spawns weren't supposed to be hoarded like they were, they were supposed to be "hard" due to lack of experience fighting it cause of long windows, the new HNM need to be hard even if a gimmick is found just bc the same LSs are gonna try and hoard it. Is claiming a mob every day against ToS? no its not, but if the fight is annoying ppl won't wanna fight it daily, hence theres opportunity for casual John/Jane Doe to go get whooped by it h/e many times till they get it right.
If by average joe, you mean people who just run blindly into the mob w/o looking it up first, sure.

Other than that, one the gimmick is found out, the NM usually no longer poses a threat to anyone(that shouldn't be playing another game instead of this one, anyway), unless its something like AV

[Dazusu]

There may actually be people out that enjoy the way things used to be but I'm sure most of the people that say they do are only frustrated that newer content is easier

Fixed this for you.

However, again, you are 'M I S S I N G' the point.

No one is asking for less content like Salvage, and Abyssea. We're asking for other content too (ie: in addition). I know it's hard to comprehend basic sentence structure, but guess what? Both types of content can co-exist. They did before, they can do so again.

No one is forcing you to take part in the requested HNM. If you don't like it, keep on with the casual content they add.

I love Salvage, I enjoy some parts of Abyssea; I still do Einherjar for fun, Sea, Sky on occasion deserves some love too - I also still kill Tiamat, DI, SW and the occasional ground king. No one asked for segregation.

As it stands, it appears the anti-HNM crowd shout and scream louder though, why not stamp your feet while you're at it? We all know we won't see HNM again in the traditional sense. That development team has long moved on.

[Snaplin]

We all know we won't see HNM again in the traditional sense. That development team has long moved on.

Actually that team has been promoted to head team for FF11. The orig. team moved to 14, then the new team who made abyssea stepped up only to get demoted for the current one.

[Randwolf]

While not being an employee of S/E, I can't say this with certainty. But, I'm willing to bet that some of the easing of content revolves around the fact that the original content was designed to slow a player's progress because of limited content. While the easing of some of the hindrances has been overdone, much of the easing of hindrances was way overdue.

[Sureal]

natenn, stop saying you want a challenge, because you dont, its incredibly obvious to everyone here, all you want is to have gear others dont


ill say it again, in all caps, if you want i could say it in another language if you can understand it better

IF YOU WANT A CHALLENGE, FIGHT THE MOBS THAT ARE ALREADY IN THE GAME, AV, OR PW, THEY ARE HARD

having gaiters or ridill does not make you a better player than anyone else, all it does is say that you have more time on your hands (and bot, or have botters in your shell), and have better luck, that is it, that is all, i will admit, i am not, was not, prolly will never be the best pld on my server (id like to think i was in the top 10), i had valor cape #5 on my entire server, did that make me better than everyone else, no, it made me lucky in that one particular instance, was i incredibly happy when it happened, your damn right i was, after more and more people started getting valor capes, did i look at mine and say "ho hum, look at this raggedy valor cape, its so played out everyone has it now so im gonna drop it" no, i still loved my cape

you want to have something to lord over other people with, you want to feel superior, you want others to look at you and say "god, he must be a great player cause he has such and such gear", good lord get over yourself, its a game, everyone is just as entitled to that gear as you are whether or not you want to believe it

and as for changing pop windows to an hour or w/e, that will do absolutely nothing, if hnm's were botted at 21-24 hours, what would change when put to 1-3 hour spawns, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, bot before, bot after, say fafnir spawned every hour, do you really think that he will magically drop a ridill every kill, no, THE DROP RATE SUCKS, meaning you will have one ls botting the everlivinghell out of fafnir to get every single member in their ls one, and since people come and go in ls's, that ls will never leave and you will have a worse situation than you have now, because instead of getting pissed that you got beat once (or 3 times if you camp all 3 land kings) per day, you got beat 15 times just on fafnir, oh wait, that doesnt apply to you does it natenn, cause you can beat any bot on your ps2 right

as for force pop nm's, who says the conditions needed to be met to pop the nm has to be easy, make it hard, but make it accessable, i really dont understand how you equate force pop with simple, it just doesnt make sense

[Zumi]

HNM camping got stupid toward the end when people started making packet bots which actually send info to the server that they claimed the HNM before the actual claim window was even open. Basically you didn't even stand a chance at claiming. The whole HNM pop system is pretty stupid because all it did was lead to mass cheating for claims.

[Natenn]

I don't even read Surreals full posts, i get to "Go fight old content that you killed already blah blah blah, i don't wanna get beat on claims just gimmi the best gear waaaa waaaa waaaa and 'insertwalloftexthere'"

I beat PW at 75, AV was beatable at 80 via zerg so i have no interst in it now, don't tell me what i should do just because we dont share the same ideas. So what if i want gear others wont get? Thats the point in having it to ppl "like me" as you would say, why should bad players be just as decked out as good ones? We all pay to play and its considered a privilege. SE not gonna give everything on a silver plate, stop QQing @ me because you don't wanna fight for claims. The new HNM are probably not gonna be windowed spawns anyway so i don't know why you get so worked up. If it is a windowed spawn its prolly gonna be very hard anyway just to counter the fact that most botting LS are trash players to begin with, wait for the update and chill out friend.

[Cream_Soda]

But you want a challenge. Don't zerg AV. Straight tank it and kill it like a boss.

Edit: I mean really.

If you're going to complain about brews, I don't see why you'd do a perfect defense zerg either.

[Karbuncle]

But you want a challenge. Don't zerg AV. Straight tank it and kill it like a boss.

BUT THATS TOO HARD QQQQQQQQQ

[Zaknafein]

What's the deal with the Car air freshener pimp crowns on highly active threads?

[Zaknafein]

I take it back I see some on lower post count threads also. What does it signify?

[Dazusu]

HNM camping got stupid toward the end when people started making packet bots which actually send info to the server that they claimed the HNM before the actual claim window was even open.

*Whistles* Someone doesn't know what they're talking about.

[Karbuncle]

What's the deal with the Car air freshener pimp crowns on highly active threads?

Its in the Forum update notes. Its for threads Representatives have posted in.

[Mirage]

I take it back I see some on lower post count threads also. What does it signify?

That a community rep has posted in the thread.

[Mrbeansman]

I don't even read Surreals full posts, i get to "Go fight old content that you killed already blah blah blah, i don't wanna get beat on claims just gimmi the best gear waaaa waaaa waaaa and 'insertwalloftexthere'"

I beat PW at 75, AV was beatable at 80 via zerg so i have no interst in it now, don't tell me what i should do just because we dont share the same ideas. So what if i want gear others wont get? Thats the point in having it to ppl "like me" as you would say, why should bad players be just as decked out as good ones? We all pay to play and its considered a privilege. SE not gonna give everything on a silver plate, stop QQing @ me because you don't wanna fight for claims. The new HNM are probably not gonna be windowed spawns anyway so i don't know why you get so worked up. If it is a windowed spawn its prolly gonna be very hard anyway just to counter the fact that most botting LS are trash players to begin with, wait for the update and chill out friend.

Yeah I mean what a dumb idea making it so everyone can do content. Good gear should come from work not claiming which contrary to popular belief is 90% luck 10% skill.

[Sureal]

your right, i dont want to fight for claims, i want to fight mobs

so you beat av at 75, meaning you did it in a zerg fashion or some sort of terrain glitch, cause at 75 thats the only way you COULD do it, you keep saying over and over that you want a challenge, yet you have failed to provide proof that you actually accept challenge, beating av using a glitch or zerg is not challenging, more than just me have pointed you towards challenges that you refuse to accept

i got out of endgame because of the system, and will most likely quit if they bring it back, so heres one oldschool player that will quit if world pop hnm's are brought back

and fyi, having gear that others dont doesnt make you cool irl, regardless of what your mom says, so stop trying to be all elitist on us, elitism is what brought drama to endgame in the first place, you are not better than me, im not better than you, your $15 is worth the same that mine is

and its not a "privilege" to play, it is a right since we pay, it would be a privilege if the game were free

and i think you missed the part about bad players having good gear, the system you cherish so, did allow many many bad players to have very good gear, but you probably know all about that dont you

and you sure did respond to me well considering you dont read my posts anymore lol

oh and i do believe i have said before, theres only one r in my name, kthxbai

[Sureal]

Yeah I mean what a dumb idea making it so everyone can do content. Good gear should come from work not claiming which contrary to popular belief is 90% luck 10% skill.

not for mr natenn lol, its opposite for him, with his SUPER PS2

[Atomic_Skull]

i got out of endgame because of the system, and will most likely quit if they bring it back, so heres one oldschool player that will quit if world pop hnm's are brought back

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.



and fyi, having gear that others dont doesnt make you cool irl, regardless of what your mom says


Basement dwellers accusing other basement dwellers of being basement dwellers is always hilarious.

You are an MMO nerd, you are not cool. If you tell normal people about your hobby they will think that you are a looser.

Accept it.

[Atomic_Skull]

HNM camping got stupid toward the end when people started making packet bots which actually send info to the server that they claimed the HNM before the actual claim window was even open. Basically you didn't even stand a chance at claiming. The whole HNM pop system is pretty stupid because all it did was lead to mass cheating for claims.

I already proposed a way to make bots useless on world pop HNMs:

When the NM pops it would be open to attack from anyone for about 3 seconds, after 3 seconds claim would be passed to a random person on it's hate list. This way you have to pay attention to the spawn and be quick to attack it to get on it's hate list. The excitement of camping and competition are maintained and bots are rendered 100% useless.

[Natenn]

I said i beat PW at 75, not AV. I got ppl lined up ready to come back to the game if the old system is revived. I know 5, another guy i talked to said he knows around 15 ppl who will be back. So currently SE stands to gain back 15-20 paying customers. You quiting not gonna make a difference in this case. The only challenges in this game were AV/PW/Claiming/Select few HNM at release. The first Creb/Hydra/Khim were my most memorable moments. LS after LS wiping trying to get that first kill, its like the super bowl, first to kill = morale rocket booster. I remember 7 LS fighting and wiping over a 7-8 hr period till all gave up and went to bed with the first Hydra. First Khim was like Fulmination fest it was awsome. Even Cerb was epic. If you wanna quit i say good, less QQers.

[Cream_Soda]

I said i beat PW at 75, not AV. I got ppl lined up ready to come back to the game if the old system is revived. I know 5, another guy i talked to said he knows around 15 ppl who will be back. So currently SE stands to gain back 15-20 paying customers. You quiting not gonna make a difference in this case. The only challenges in this game were AV/PW/Claiming/Select few HNM at release. The first Creb/Hydra/Khim were my most memorable moments. LS after LS wiping trying to get that first kill, its like the super bowl, first to kill = morale rocket booster. I remember 7 LS fighting and wiping over a 7-8 hr period till all gave up and went to bed with the first Hydra. First Khim was like Fulmination fest it was awsome. Even Cerb was epic. If you wanna quit i say good, less QQers.
Ok, so more people are going to come back than leave? But there will be LESS QQ'ers? All the people who quit earlier because the game didn't go their way are not QQ'ers? We'd be standing to gain more than we lose, provided you're even correct about more people coming back than leaving.

[Karbuncle]

Ok, so more people are going to come back than leave? But there will be LESS QQ'ers? All the people who quit earlier because the game didn't go their way are not QQ'ers? We'd be standing to gain more than we lose, provided you're even correct about more people coming back than leaving.

Raises a valid point.

[Zaknafein]

The likelihood of anyone quitting if World spawns were introduced again is slim to none. People might be pissed, but they are generally the ones who are pro abyssea. That's what they would continue to do. The content they so avidly support. Players who quit because HNM was the entire game to them had no option like that when Abyssea was released. Their whole shabang was toppled in about a week or two when everyone realized the new 76-80 gear destroyed hnm, and was well on it's way to making salvage obsolete.

Now agree or disagree with Nateen, and other pro HNM people in this thread all you like. Hell I don't agree with 100% of what they're saying. However him saying there are a significant # of people who would return if HNM became a valid option again is the truth. I know 20-30 off the top of my head, and those were just ones I worked, and played with in linkshells that I am sure of. Considering my initial statement of people will QQ, but they would still have abyssea can you honestly say more people would leave than would be returning?

[Natenn]

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Karbuncle]

I don't think i would out-right Quit if World-Spawn NMs were introduced as a means for rare armor, as well as other events to get good armor.

If they were the only way to get the best gear, tacked a 21-24hr timer, and Ruled by Bots. Yes I think the game would probably end for me. But Thats okay. I have other things to look forward too and i enjoyed my time in FFXI :)

But i don't think we have to worry about that anymore. Judging from the look of the Schedule though. It appears we will likely get a lot of good HNM Content, as well as Several Event-Related content like Salvage/Einherjar/Nyzul/etc. I'm looking forward to a great Balance.

[Zaknafein]

Youuu must have balance Danielsan!!!! Show me paint the fence! Nah nah nah nah... Shoooowww me Paint the fence!!!

[Snaplin]

I already proposed a way to make bots useless on world pop HNMs:

When the NM pops it would be open to attack from anyone for about 3 seconds, after 3 seconds claim would be passed to a random person on it's hate list. This way you have to pay attention to the spawn and be quick to attack it to get on it's hate list. The excitement of camping and competition are maintained and bots are rendered 100% useless.

Seriously stop pitching that Idea, It was retarded the first 300 times you've posted it in this thread

[Natenn]

Man i hope this voidwalker thing isn't another VNM kinda deal.

[Denabond]

It probably is, or something similar.

[Cream_Soda]

but dude, I know people who miss vnms so much. Like 20 of them will come back to the game if this is expanded on!

[Zaknafein]

but dude, I know people who miss vnms so much. Like 20 of them will come back to the game if this is expanded on!

Hahahaha!!

[LeaderofAtlantis]

The Voidwalker system had potential. Imagine deformed Beastmen from another dimension (not just the black Tonberry we got in Abyssea - Konschtat). Maybe Gu'Dha, Za'Dha's "brother" that he mentions upon dying appears from another dimension and he's twice as big as Za'Dha, has a shell that looks to be made of Diamond (and makes it so any attacks behind him are nullified as an added trick) and so on. Imagine a Behemoth that makes King Behemoth look like a Rarab standing next to an Amphiptere and it could have so crazy new look.

I also love the look of the new creatures they've revealed. That 4 armed creature in the main picture, the one that seems to remind everyone of Gilgamesh - I looked closely and it looks like a giant skeleton with flowing locks of silver hair and 4 arms, got into a fight with a giant Antican with 4 arms, killed it, tore off the exoskeleton, and is now wearing it as armor.

[Firebert_Lakshmi]

I can't believe I read the entire thread. All I'm getting from some of these posts is Syndrome's classic line, "And when everyone is super, no one is." I was not aware that stats of the Uber Gear+50 went down with the presence of more on the server.

I agree that the challenge should come with the fight and not in the claim. I understand there's a certain thrill of racing to a NM and finally claimed. I sorta liked the idea of using Abyssea's stagger system mentioned a few posts back to determine who gets the claim, but I'd ammend to that. If it still goes unclaimed after a certain amount of time has passed, the restrictions ease up.

Though I don't have firsthand experience with HNMLS, my finding out that one of my closest friends in the game was using a bot made me feel bretrayed. I knew other people were screwing my chances of a BB, but not any of my best friends.

[Natenn]

If they continue the current trend it means everyone should have the exact same gear/Stats/Do the same thing h/e many ppl left on XI is doing. Abyssea took any and all competition out of the game that distinguished players and shells. Now XI getting another system that promotes the notion we all should be the same? i hope not.

At least with the old HNM system i had something to look forward to daily, you can nerd rage on about how bad you think HNM and how "my kind" ruined the game, i think QQers who couldn't cut it ruined the game. You can't compete so you just throw a fit to get it all but abolished. Now its "oh look someone killed "X" NM....everyone else on server killed it to. With noobs runnin around in the same gear you have, and we all know its true so don't lie and say everyone is a good player, donno why you tolerate it.

[Cream_Soda]

If they continue the current trend it means everyone should have the exact same gear/Stats/Do the same thing h/e many ppl left on XI is doing. Abyssea took any and all competition out of the game that distinguished players and shells. Now XI getting another system that promotes the notion we all should be the same? i hope not.
"I have to be better than other people to enjoy the game."

Again, superiority complex.

[Catsby]

"I have to be better than other people to enjoy the game."

Again, superiority complex.

this shouldn't come as a surprise to you. a huge number of games are built for people who like to compete. FFXI just doesn't facilitate competition the way it should.

[Natenn]

No, i just don't wanna be lumped in with bad players.

[Cream_Soda]

No, i just don't wanna be lumped in with bad players.
Which means you want to have better gear than them.

What part of that is not wanting to be superior to them? Aka superiority complex?

Why does it matter what other people have? That has 0 effect on you whatsoever. In off chance you actually do something with them, (e.g. pick up group), then they'll be less of a hassle with better gear than with crappier gear.

So this either does nothing to you at all, or slightly enhances your pick up groups.

The only reason to want to have better gear than other people is your desire to be superior.

[Karbuncle]

I was always a little thankful that some gear is easier to get.

It just means I'm a little less likely to not encounter complete gimps in pick up parties, as there is some minimal standard.

[Zaknafein]

That's really life tho. Everyone is not equal. As I've said b4. Abyssea was great. I know a lot of people felt left out/behind for years. I'm happy they are pimpin now. I'm happy they feel more equal, and are enjoying themselves. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be a higher tier of gear for people who wanna put in that extra mile (or 12). Whether the gear comes from HNM, this new battle system we are all anticipating, PvP or w/e. It's not wrong to wanna strive for something elite.

Granted HNM had it's share of douchebags. Bots really were unpleasant even for those of us who thrived on competition, but didn't bot. Yet there were quality players believe it or not who didn't cheat, were decent people who just wanted that thrill. Who wanted to achieve, and reach another level.

[Cream_Soda]

That's really life tho. Everyone is not equal.

And it's the same in game. Even if you have the same gear, who is the better player and has better knowledge and can put the gear to better use is going to be obvious between a good player and a bad one.

Equal gear =/= equal players.

If you're a good player, you don't need better gear to outperform someone. You can do it in equivalent gear.

[Anewie]

And it's the same in game. Even if you have the same gear, who is the better player and has better knowledge and can put the gear to better use is going to be obvious between a good player and a bad one.

Equal gear =/= equal players.

If you're a good player, you don't need better gear to outperform someone. You can do it in equivalent gear.

I love you on BG Goku but I'm a little surprised you're not on the fence.

You're a good player.a always have been and you never had trouble getting the elite gear.

I am also happy everyone has gotten a chance at abbysea gear and ultimate weapons but I would expect a player of your level to also understand the other side. Theres nothing wrong with wanting to strive to be the best and have the best in game. Its one of the fun things about it. I don't think a SAM whos just abyssea burned to 90 in a week and then got masamune a week later, should be considered of the highest tier player.

If someone wants to put in more time and effort to acquire the highest tier of gear, there should be content for that. If someone wants to spend time hunting down the rarest of monsters, there should also be content for that. There should have always been content for very casual players, abyssea really encourages this. However, there should be content available for those who want to strive for the hardest, most time consuming content. That content should be of higher quality than the content you do casually because of the effort put in. It should be up to the player what they want to spend time doing. As I said Cream and im not kissing ass, you're cool people but I agree with Nateinn and you.

Nateinn is one of the players who enjoys hunting rare monsters. FFXI should provide this, as well as content for all types of players. Casual or elite. The difference in the gear should be amount to the effort but at the same time it shouldnt be ridiculous. Theres ways of balancing it.

Some people wanna compete. Some people want to hunt rare monsters. I approve of adding world spawns for these pplayers and the rewards for such content should be worthwhile to the people who want to spend vast amounts of time hunting them.

Some people wanna be casual. Do things when they can, when they want without having to compete. Theres plenty of content that supports this now and SE should continue to add more content and more worthwile rewards to please the casual player base.

Some people want to be elite or superior to the casual player. Wanting to just be better than someone else is not very productive in game or IRL. However, wanting to be the best player you can be at your jobs gear and or skill wise should be encouraged and wanting to strive for gear/items/rewards that are considered very rare/flashy/pretty should be available to these types of players. Some people just want to have those types of rare nice gears and like the hunter crowd, they also deserve to strive for whatever content is available, and there should be content provided for such a player.

Theres room for every type of player. In my honest opinion as a 8 year vet good gear,items, gil and etc rewards should be available to all players. I also think there should be Monsters, Gear, items that are more rare and harder to get than others for players who play more and dedicate more effort.

[Anewie]

Also, depending on your play time schedule, you should devote time to your goals. I think trying to mold the game to suit one type of player base is making the game very boring and stale. If you are a casual player who wants the rare/flashy items, instead of asking SE to deny others, who are wanting to devote time to such goals; you should use your time you can play to making progress to your goals.

At same time, the rewards for world spawns or "elitism" shouldnt be so much more amazing than casual content to the point the casual players feel left out. They also should be allowed great rewards that are on level with the time and effort needed to obtain them.

[Cream_Soda]

I am also happy everyone has gotten a chance at abbysea gear and ultimate weapons but I would expect a player of your level to also understand the other side.
I understand it 100%

It's a superiority complex. The desire to be "better" than everyone else.


I don't think a SAM whos just abyssea burned to 90 in a week and then got masamune a week later, should be considered of the highest tier player.
If they're a sucky player they won't be. If they're outperforming your massamune sam, then maybe you should reevaluate your playstyle and learn some things from them.


If someone wants to put in more time and effort to acquire the highest tier of gear, there should be content for that.
I'm 100% fine with this. I wouldn't mind another top tier weapon that is over the rest of them that is a huge long quest, like a mythic weapon. You can create things that take time and effort w/o putting a 21-24 hour pop time on a monster.


If someone wants to spend time hunting down the rarest of monsters, there should also be content for that.
You can also make rare monsters w/o putting a 21-24 hour timer on them.

While you can pop them consecutively, how many hours are you averaging per creation of a pandemonium warden pop item?


However, there should be content available for those who want to strive for the hardest, most time consuming content. That content should be of higher quality than the content you do casually because of the effort put in. It should be up to the player what they want to spend time doing. As I said Cream and im not kissing ass, you're cool people but I agree with Nateinn and you.
I agree with the concept, I am just not a fan of HNMs. It's in my opinion a terrible design and I have no desire to ever see it back again. As I've explained, you can put in effort and time both to make things rare w/o the need for a 21-24 hour timed NM.


Some people wanna compete. Some people want to hunt rare monsters. I approve of adding world spawns for these pplayers and the rewards for such content should be worthwhile to the people who want to spend vast amounts of time hunting them.
Why are they playing ffxi if competing is what brings them most fun? PvP games, such as WoW would provide a much better sense of competition.

Some people may want to compete, but some people also want to get the 100% best things w/o lifting a finger. Not everyone is going to be pleased and I personally don't want either of the 2 to come into play.



They also should be allowed great rewards that are on level with the time and effort needed to obtain them.

Pretty much a broken record now, but I do agree with time/effort to reward value. I'm just saying 21-24 hour timers aren't required to implement any of that.


Also, I'm not sure if you have me confused with someone else, but I'm not Goku, lol

[Cream_Soda]

Main point is I don't mind making things tough and long for a good reward, I just don't see the sense in wanting to make a scenario where you have to prevent someone else from being able to do the same thing in the process.

[Karbuncle]

(This isn't Pointed in the Direction of any particular Poster)

Really the Idea of 21-24hrs stems from the fact its mostly monopolization, allowing those people who have such a Superiority complex to maintain Monopoly over said Items from the 21-24hr HNM. This keeps them "Superior" by screwing everyone else who doesn't have the newest 2,000$ Bot.

That, And you can't Technically monopolize Questable items. So if you were to offer logic like you have just now, Cream_Soda, About Making Difficult Quests (in terms of Mythic) to obtain Rarer, More powerful Armor generally not accessable entirely by Casuals, They probably wouldn't go for it.

(I For one, Completely agree with you. I prefer Challenges that don't involve 21-24 hour Waiting periods.)

[Anewie]

Lol i was implying to your always using DBZ charactersz in your sig/avatar on BG. That is you right? lol and Yeah I don't agree with monopolization and that is the case sometimes but it's not the only reason people do them. Some people genuinally enjoy the rush of it and dont cheat. I am one of those players. I really enjoyed Ixion, Sandworm, Khimera and Cerberus. I also enjoyed Salvage, Dynamis and many other instanced events.

I don't approve of botting and that became inevitable in the scene, so I agree with you, cheaters/monopolizers will do just that. At the same time, I think it was SEs fault for not implementing measure to prevent it. As someone has mentioned before, there are ways to prevent botting. You cannot bot shit like Ixion or Shikigami weapon for example. Although you can scan using various cheats, there are also ways to make it so inconvienant for a "deathspot" or "footprint" scanner, it would be pointless. I don't want people to think I'm some lame ass who wants to screw you outta the game.

I like the casual content. I can do abyssea with just my husband whenever I feel like and if we need people for something, we simply shout. Nothing is rly hard anymore or even time consuming. I also enjoy camping. I'm a long time player (is that u surreal from seedz ls? sup<3). I very much enjoyed the HNMs MINUS kings. I did not enjoy kings after the first year or two due to all the bs. I'm all for them never adding world spawns again, I can understand why others wouldnt like that but I'd be lying if I said I do not miss the camping and competiting aspect of some of the older non king HNMs.

I guess my point is, not everyone is a botting, cheating jerk who justs wants to beat some other guy just to be better. I enjoy both casual and elite content and would love to camp a rare monster occasionally that has some nice drops. For gil or otherwise. The competiting aspect isnt nessicary but I also enjoy and don't mind competition, it adds a rush. In world spawns that drop valuable gear, competition is invenitable most times. It's not any deeper than that. I can just do abyssea if I don't have time to do that or don't feel up to the challenge.

People who just wanna beat ppl to beat them is silly. People who just want to win so badly they cheat, well thats what ruins the game for everyone. I understand that.

[Karbuncle]

I understand that not Everyone at HNM's bot. but there is nearly 100% Chance that SOMEONE at the HNM camp is botting, Which ruins it for everyone evolved rather they cheat or not. It takes just 1 bot to make the experience unenjoyable :|

I think that people who fought Pandy or AV (before it was obvious he was Immortal >.>!) for the first time, Even though he was a Forced-Pop NM, Probably felt a bigger rush killing/fighting them then they ever felt fighting Ixion or Khimaira.

So why not stick to those systems? You can still have a thrill getting to kill an NM if its a forced pop, It doesn't need to be "Theres 1 for the entire server, it spawns here, KNOCK YOURSELVE OUT LUL, oh and it only spawns every 1-4 days". It could be "Theres your Mega boss, but you must work up to him! fight his minions to reach him!" in a VNM/Abyssea Style. Really an Abyssean-Like system outside of Abyssea wouldn't be awful. Whats the biggest complaint about Abyssea is that its Too easy, Remove Atmas, Cruor, Etc from Abyssea, and it would be a perfect system.

Work for pops to pop lesser NM with okay drops > Collect Multiple KI > Pop Big guy and take him down. Its like the VNM system without the stupid Camera-Fetch Quest. Can you imagine the Difficulty Of Rani/Raja, even NMs like Turul if you didn't use Cruor buffs or Atmas?

The reason Abyssean NMs feel waterred down is because how much God-mode we feel in Abyssea. So i reiterate, a System like Abyssea (Kill lesser NM, get pops for Bigger NM, to get a pop for the biggest BA NM) outside of Abyssea i think would create the same level of thrill as it did for Pandemonium Warden, and Absolute Virtue. I bet back when we were 75, for PW at least, it was one of the hardest things to beat, and any LS who did beat it probably felt more pride in that achievement than any amount of Fafnir, Nidhogg, or Ixion, and PW Wasn't 21-24hr NM.

So its just an example that you can make an NM not driven by 21-24hr Bot-wars, thats Still a thrill to kill and fight, and still a rush. Where the challenge is the fight, Not the claim.

[Anewie]

I personally would like more world spawn monsters that are unique like IXI/SW (loved the doomvoid stuff) that drop auction houseable gear or large amounts of gil. I don't think theres NMs in game that just drop good gil, thatd be kinda cool. I personally only partook in those camps for farming purposes.

If the gear is AHable, it shouldnt be hands down the best. It should be situatiually good or situationally the best to even out its value with other things that wont require a person to do it to have something almost as situationally good.

For example, if you wanted ebody u had to camp nidhogg, i dont think it should be that deep. Antares harness is great for farming and using, but theres other stuff thats almost as good or situationally better. (speaking of the time it was released).
I don't think the casual base should feel obligated to camp or do anything or else they wont have something really nice that isnt gimp compared to something that requires lots of time or camping.

And also, the issue of preventing botting or cheating seems like it could be easy but its niave to think that i suppose after all these years.


Someone suggested staggers. Someone suggsted it going red to random person in aggro range? And deathspot scanning can be trumped by simply having random repop timers for long and short periods of time spread accross vast amounts of zones. These could also depend on weather/season, etc. Just throwing ideas out there for how it can be prevented. People bot for convienance and advantage, it doesnt seem too hard to rly impliment measure to really limit convienance and advantage for cheaters.

[Karbuncle]

I personally would like more world spawn monsters that are unique like IXI/SW (loved the doomvoid stuff) that drop auction houseable gear or large amounts of gil. I don't think theres NMs in game that just drop good gil, thatd be kinda cool. I personally only partook in those camps for farming purposes.

If the gear is AHable, it shouldnt be hands down the best. It should be situatiually good or situationally the best to even out its value with other things that wont require a person to do it to have something almost as situationally good.

For example, if you wanted ebody u had to camp nidhogg, i dont think it should be that deep. Antares harness is great for farming and using, but theres other stuff thats almost as good or situationally better. (speaking of the time it was released).
I don't think the casual base should feel obligated to camp or do anything or else they wont have something really nice that isnt gimp compared to something that requires lots of time or camping.

And also, the issue of preventing botting or cheating seems like it could be easy but its niave to think that i suppose after all these years.


Someone suggested staggers. Someone suggsted it going red to random person in aggro range? And deathspot scanning can be trumped by simply having random repop timers for long and short periods of time spread accross vast amounts of zones. These could also depend on weather/season, etc. Just throwing ideas out there for how it can be prevented. People bot for convienance and advantage, it doesnt seem too hard to rly impliment measure to really limit convienance and advantage for cheaters.

I completely agree there are ways to make Roaming 21-24HR Nm unbottable, my argument is that 21-24hr NMs as a System is flawed and outdated. The only thing is good for is promoting Monopolization of select few HNM Linkshells.

If Ixion was a Forced Pop from a ??? based on off of some Campaign-related Quest line to defeat NMs to get his pop, he would be just as thrilling and fun to fight (Cause he is unique, "Running people over", etc, His fighting style is unique too. Truthfully I've only tanked him once Lol..... So i dont have vast Knowledge, but it was a fun fight.)

I'm just with tiger on this one, I don't want to go back to the Dark Ages of botted NMs and 2-3 Linkshell Monopolizing entire aspects of Endgame (in this case, Land-kings). Systems like VNMs, ZNM, Abyssean-pop system (Ignoring Atma/Cruor) were all steps in the right direction. They created a sense of progression and fighting NMs like Yilbegan, etc, was just as exciting as fighting Ixion/SW/Nid, to me anyway... Its just i felt i had more ability to kill/fight VNM/ZNMs.

It felt like i had the Freedom to do it, I didn't have to wait for a spawn window, I could go out and fight them if we decided too. Build up the pop, Work to fight it, and then finally get to it and defeat it.

I just think if people really liked the thrill of HNMs, not just for monopolization or controlling the inflow of gear, they could Enjoy an HNM even if its spawn methods were similar to VNM/ZNM. Those who Insist on 21-24hr HNMs... the motive is clear. They want the control back.

[Orson]

Even with cruor buffs and atmas Abyssea is still fairly challenging. The difference is they didn't really scale HNM hp like they did back in older content. The fights are designed to be faster and in that way they actually are easier. 200k Brews are the one thing that really made the content easy. If not for that certain HNMs are still really tough if not handled carefully. I think people are really over selling how hard content was pre-abyssea. T3 Einherjar was probably the hardest thing in the game before the level increase and people were beating that very regularly with smaller groups. Every single worth while free spawn NM was being easily killed by like 6-8 people. Abyssea reduced the average group killing stuff? Sort of but apart from mass adds like Einherjar and PW you never needed a lot of people (well apart from the odd gimmick like Odin.)

PW/AV weren't as much hard as they were broken content. They were just really gimmicky for the most part. Our group was the first to take down PW on our server and it wasn't a push over but after beating it we saw how it would be fairly easy to beat consistently. It was just more or less reliant on you having an army of people to sac. Zerging AV was probably one of the hardest things to do in the game but really it was a cheese tactic to take down something that couldn't be killed.

Again though challenging content is a lot of fun but I want to be able to set up times where my friends and I can access the content without being blocked by other people. If the content is challenging because it takes like 100 hrs to complete with a decent size group then so be it. People deserve to be able to work at their own pace but if they're putting in the same amount of work over a longer period then they deserve the same pay off in the end. Also the flip side to this is no one should be able to walk up to Nidhogg kill it once and get an e.body like in the past that's not a challenge.

[Karbuncle]

Even with cruor buffs and atmas Abyssea is still fairly challenging. The difference is they didn't really scale HNM hp like they did back in older content. The fights are designed to be faster and in that way they actually are easier. 200k Brews are the one thing that really made the content easy. If not for that certain HNMs are still really tough if not handled carefully. I think people are really over selling how hard content was pre-abyssea. T3 Einherjar was probably the hardest thing in the game before the level increase and people were beating that very regularly with smaller groups. Every single worth while free spawn NM was being easily killed by like 6-8 people. Abyssea reduced the average group killing stuff? Sort of but apart from mass adds like Einherjar and PW you never needed a lot of people (well apart from the odd gimmick like Odin.)

PW/AV weren't as much hard as they were broken content. They were just really gimmicky for the most part. Our group was the first to take down PW on our server and it wasn't a push over but after beating it we saw how it would be fairly easy to beat consistently. It was just more or less reliant on you having an army of people to sac. Zerging AV was probably one of the hardest things to do in the game but really it was a cheese tactic to take down something that couldn't be killed.

Incase this is in my direction at all, I never claimed Pre-abyssea was hard. in fact, It was easy as heck lol.

I was only mentioning Abyssea Content at its proper level was easier than Non-Abyssean Content at 75, and that I think its possible to recreate the thrill of taking down/fighting an HNM for the first time, Without attaching a 21-24hr tag to it :)

[Orson]

No, more or less I'm just talking generally. A lot of people have rose colored glasses in regard to back when content was hard. Which really is wasn't very hard. I remember killing DI with like 6 people after watching a group of 15ish people wipe time and time again. I've seen just as large of groups wipe to Tunga. The challenge on most of the NMs back then was learning their routines. Same thing in abyssea really but party dynamics have also changed slightly because of the emphasis on procing weaknesses.

[Natenn]

Anewie is better at explaining it then i am lol, ill admit part of me likes the feeling of being able to claim almost every pop but i never did. We got a good 85+% of SW/DI claims cause the monet we made off them made us all $. Alot of ppl in my LS had or were close to relics because of this. Things like kings i camped when they were popular i know its bs watching ghe same group bot every HQ and brag when you know they duck skill wise. But when we claimed it was worth watching them get so mad over it just for the laughs. SW/DI was fun bc ppl were so mad we claimed they would just make fools of themselfs providing more lols. And these ppl showed up with out powder boots or jobs that could hold SW/DI long enough for their tank to get there. Not to mention the 3 A.M. Tiamats. By someones logic why should anyone care what i wanna do with my time? We all know world spawns will be camped to a point unless its a 3-5 day pop over several zones.

[Karbuncle]

Anewie is better at explaining it then i am lol, ill admit part of me likes the feeling of being able to claim almost every pop but i never did. We got a good 85+% of SW/DI claims cause the monet we made off them made us all $. Alot of ppl in my LS had or were close to relics because of this. Things like kings i camped when they were popular i know its bs watching ghe same group bot every HQ and brag when you know they duck skill wise. But when we claimed it was worth watching them get so mad over it just for the laughs. SW/DI was fun bc ppl were so mad we claimed they would just make fools of themselfs providing more lols. And these ppl showed up with out powder boots or jobs that could hold SW/DI long enough for their tank to get there. Not to mention the 3 A.M. Tiamats. By someones logic why should anyone care what i wanna do with my time? We all know world spawns will be camped to a point unless its a 3-5 day pop over several zones.
'
I understand the rest of your post :) I just wanna comment on this one thing.

If 21-24hr/3-5day HNMs were introduced and had the best gear, We'd be FORCED to care about what you do with your time, because if anyone ever wanted to get gear for their job they'd be forced to camp those NMs. and a lot of us would be forced to bot or join a botting shell if we ever wanted to claim/kill. and some of us care about our characters enough to not Cheat/bot. :|

Also about the World spawns, Its true it will be camped no matter what, Which is the exact reason we don't want them back :|. With VNM/ZNM/Abyssean type systems, you didn't have to wait 21-24hrs, Forcing you to return the next day and the next day, Eventually working your entire play-schedule around the same 4-5 Different HNM windows.

I think a lot of people did leave because the game felt "Too much like a job" to them. Logging on, Going to multiple Scheduled HNM camps to have a chance to claim, and finishing the day when the windows were over. it felt like a chore to get the armor. I do not imply everyone felt this way, But its was as much a problem to them as not having them is for you. its a double-edged sword. Make some happy and make some sad.

So its really hard to find a fair balance. I would prefer a ZNM/VNM type system where You can pop an NM when you feel like going to fight it. Even if it required a long build up like getting to PW, just being able to fight it without having ToD would be nice.

but I think you at least understand that too :)

[Natenn]

I liked it though, gear/relics had more sentimental value then. Since 1500 other ppl weren't decked out to the max.

[Karbuncle]

I liked it though, gear/relics had more sentimental value then. Since 1500 other ppl weren't decked out to the max.

Well, The reason people are "Decked out to the max now" isn't because the NMs aren't 21-24/hr, its because Abyssea has made it incredibly easy to gear. Especially because Atma/Cruor buffs, and Triggering System. I enjoy those things about Abyssea, But I admit they make it easy.

Okay, I'll use this as the Best example. Look at Pandemonium Warden. He wasn't a 21-24 hour was he? He was a Pop just like Abyssea. (Kill NM to get pop For another NM to get pop for another NM to pop the Big NM), Yet i bet any LS who has killed him at the level 75 Value that as their highest Achievement, above ANY 21-24Hr NM.

My Point is, You can make Exclusive, Challenging, Epic Fights without needing 21-24hr Tag on it. You can still create NMs/HNMs that give you the feeling of Exclusive Sentimental accomplishments, Without resorting to Free-Spawning NMs that, Rather we like it or not, Will always invite Botters, making it unenjoyable, or less fair, For those who do not use bots.

Just make the Build to the NM challenging like Pandemonium Warden, and the entire ZNM System. It gives everyone the Opportunity to participate, But still gives a strong challenge to where the gear won't be floating around Everywhere.

[Catsby]

'
Forcing you to return the next day and the next day, Eventually working your entire play-schedule around the same 4-5 Different HNM windows.

I think a lot of people did leave because the game felt "Too much like a job" to them. Logging on, Going to multiple Scheduled HNM camps to have a chance to claim, and finishing the day when the windows were over. it felt like a chore to get the armor. I do not imply everyone felt this way, But its was as much a problem to them as not having them is for you. its a double-edged sword. Make some happy and make some sad.

So its really hard to find a fair balance. I would prefer a ZNM/VNM type system where You can pop an NM when you feel like going to fight it. Even if it required a long build up like getting to PW, just being able to fight it without having ToD would be nice.

but I think you at least understand that too :)

This. When I got into "end game" years ago the thrill of claiming fafnir and co. wore off very quickly and the experience became agonizing. It actually got to the point where I was logging out before windows so I didn't have to put up with it. When the tail end of CoP rolled out with limbus and new dynamis zones I felt like playing again. It only got better when ToAU came out and introduced daily content. It's a shame development never really refined and further explored that content though.

[Runespider]

I'll take easy Abyssea gear where everyone can get it too over salvage and HNM gear where it's all down to chance. Take Salvage for instance, took me 2 years to finish morrigan body doing it twice a week(killing all 5 rats), friend got it on his first run. Screw going back to that system.

[Karbuncle]

I'll take easy Abyssea gear where everyone can get it too over salvage and HNM gear where it's all down to chance. Take Salvage for instance, took me 2 years to finish morrigan body doing it twice a week(killing all 5 rats), friend got it on his first run. Screw going back to that system.

Oh boy, I certainly wasn't suggesting the same drop rates on these new systems... Only that its possible to create a rewarding, Exclusive experience without the need for 21-24 hour windows.

[Anewie]

I'll take easy Abyssea gear where everyone can get it too over salvage and HNM gear where it's all down to chance. Take Salvage for instance, took me 2 years to finish morrigan body doing it twice a week(killing all 5 rats), friend got it on his first run. Screw going back to that system.

HNMs aside. Im sure cream, Orison and surreal will agree, the game desperetely needs to move outside abyssea. Its great content for the casual player but i think it might be hurting the game a bit. It's so freakin easy and just get down right boring. Its quit the opposite of the overhaul you had to put in for salvage,dynamis or world spawns. I totally agree with you about the salvage thing, those drop rates were horrid, but salvage was fun! I loved it, so i didn't mind it. It did piss me off shit never dropped though.

I'm with the crowd the people that thing Abyssea being highest tier of endgame needs to end. Its wonderful system but its too easy and casual to enjoy long term imo. I am so bored of it but I love the gear and accessability of it! Lol. But, its boring and easy as hell.

It also discourages team work via shells imo. Event linkshells are lol now. Even Abyssea LS' are not at all nessicary. You can do anything pretty much via shout. Empryean weapon upgrade is probably the hardest goal via abysea and you can totally do an entire empyrean weapon just by shouting. Get your own pops, then shout. U can even shout for people to help get the pops.

I would like to see more higher tier content that exclusive to linkshells and groups. Not just stuff you shout to do with randoms. I'd also like to see a new system like salvage/nyzul. That system was very cool!

I don't want to come off as someone whos saying the devs should force harder content on everyone, but there really should be content for multiple player types. Why is that so hard or bad? I'll still do abys occasionally no matter what the future content of ffxi but I've been playing less and less due to the direction the game is going.

I had fun getting every job I wanted 90 and capped merits. Also having the best gear atm via af3 and me and my husba dpretty much duo + mule + shout for his ochain. Everyone should have that freedom to do that, its casual. But options would be nice ; ;. variety of elite and casual content spanning across instanced to world events.


Very happy about the upcoming changes though! However, eventually we will be at 99 and the changes and updates to the game will eventually have to be very minimal. I would be very dissapointed if there wasnt some form of return of elite content available to those who choose to spend their time on it.

My issue with the game is before, there was so much to do. Now, you get a sense of being very bored after awhile. All most of us do is abyssea, lets keep it real. Very repetitive, very casual and not challenging or competitive enough.

Even with new battle field additions, if its just too casual, easy and doesnt require much thought, skill, competition all it will become is just another easy thoughtless event. Ill admit, Dyna, salvage and limbus could have been a pain and they were also repetitive. Those events at 75 though were much more challenging and thought provoking than anything now. They were imo, better events. I enjoyed them much longer.

As for HNMs, idc if theyre world spawn or instanced really. It would be nice to have a bundle of both but not everyone can play as much as I can and i respect that. They shouldnt be forced to camp shit against people with large amounts of play time for gear they want. Plus people can cheat and monopolize. At same time though, I think that can be managed VIA Square enix. They could make like they did with kings and make an alternate method that is casual so people who enjoy competiting and campind world spawns can.

Im excited about voidwatch!

[Natenn]

I just hope the new stuff is hard but not a body tossing thing like PW.

[Orson]

I just hope the new stuff is hard but not a body tossing thing like PW.

For once I agree with you 100%

[Linh]

I liked it though, gear/relics had more sentimental value then. Since 1500 other ppl weren't decked out to the max.

Something wrong with other people having good gear?

If an MMO is truly fun, you would still play it even after having everything you need.

[Natenn]

Yea there is something wrong with it, whats the point in everyone having the exact same things? MMO like that are dull, im asking for diversity here, not everyone to be uniformed.

[Cream_Soda]

Yea there is something wrong with it, whats the point in everyone having the exact same things? MMO like that are dull, im asking for diversity here, not everyone to be uniformed.
Then wear diff things than other people?

[Linh]

Yea there is something wrong with it, whats the point in everyone having the exact same things? MMO like that are dull, im asking for diversity here, not everyone to be uniformed.

Look at it this way too:

It's also the developers' fault for not implementing a system where you can change how you wear your gear. Like for example rolling up your right sleeves, or being able to hang a small nail from Bahamut's claw off your belt as a trophy. Just because everyone has the same gear, doesn't mean they all wear it the same.

Think outside the box.

[Natenn]

Maby im not explaining it right, lets try this: Say MMOs are like the olympics. People from different areas of the world are all here competing, NOW, what if the prizes for first, second, third, and ppl who didn't even place, were all the Gold cup? There would be no incentive to strive for first since even if you ran say 1 mile in a min the guy who took 5m+ gets the exact same reward. Then no one cares afterward about who came in what place. Primevil brew slaughtered w/e challenge developers had in mind, who cares if someone can kill something hard w/o brew? The point is if ppl can take the easy way they will.Every MMO is an epeen contest XI is no exception. If you play an MMO and want everything and everyone to be equal then thats your way, dont try and make the game that one way just so you can be like that 2nd or 3rd ect winner and destroy all meaning of the first place spot.

Bring back the old HNM system please in some way, its 2011, im sure theres a practicle way around bots by now.

[Cream_Soda]

That example couldn't be any more off base.

Gold medals aren't comparable to gear. Why? Because a gold medal does nothing but sit there. My gold medal would be identical to yours.

Even if you have the same gear as someone else, its not identical because how you use that gear makes a huge diff in what you get out of it.

If you depend on gear to be better than or stand out as compared to someone else, then you're doing it wrong. Stand out based on being a better player.

Basically what you're saying is that you can only be better than another player if you have better gear than them.

[Karbuncle]

That example couldn't be any more off base.

Gold medals aren't comparable to gear. Why? Because a gold medal does nothing but sit there. My gold medal would be identical to yours.

Even if you have the same gear as someone else, its not identical because how you use that gear makes a huge diff in what you get out of it.

If you depend on gear to be better than or stand out as compared to someone else, then you're doing it wrong. Stand out based on being a better player.

Basically what you're saying is that you can only be better than another player if you have better gear than them.

You could tie those gold medals around your hands and use it to climb a giant pole to get an arrow. THEREFOR YOUR ARGUMENT IS inVALID>

[Natenn]

No, basically what im saying is, gear should reflect skill lvl. In that regard claiming should be hard, and the fights even harder then that. But you come off as all "No competition for anything plz". If SE not gonna make HNM in the traditional sense then make it getting a pop exceedingly difficult idc. Seeing bad players in good gear is sickening to me. Hoping these voidwatch are all hard with time limits or else they depop or rage after X amount of time.

Instead of flaming on me, what would you suggest to the idea of new "HNM"? How would you set it up? Make it all easy so everyone can kill with out strategy and little to no effort? Thats basically what abyssea is now.

[Karbuncle]

No, basically what im saying is, gear should reflect skill lvl. In that regard claiming should be hard, and the fights even harder then that. But you come off as all "No competition for anything plz". If SE not gonna make HNM in the traditional sense then make it getting a pop exceedingly difficult idc. Seeing bad players in good gear is sickening to me. Hoping these voidwatch are all hard with time limits or else they depop or rage after X amount of time.

Instead of flaming on me, what would you suggest to the idea of new "HNM"? How would you set it up? Make it all easy so everyone can kill with out strategy and little to no effort? Thats basically what abyssea is now.

No it shouldn't. The difficulty should be winning the fight, Not beating the Bots.

a System like what was in place for PW and AV (large Work-filled Build up to Pop NM) Would be perfect. Its difficult but remains an Obtainable goal over time. Not just when the window is open

[Natenn]

Did you read the 2nd half of my post or just rage went off after you seen "claiming"?

[Karbuncle]

Did you read the 2nd half of my post or just rage went off after you seen "claiming"?

I read the second half, Doesn't mean i don't disagree with the first half.

Did you see the second half of my post agreeing with the second half of your post?

Secondly, I'm far form raging. however, Your offensive attitude is understandable i suppose. Consider I'm nearly the only one in this entire thread trying to address your points in any calm fashion, while the rest basically call you a superiority-complex having douche.

But I mean, If you wanna see me rage, I can gladly do it. Considering i feel, out of all my posts toward you, I have never once "Flammed" you. Unless you consider "Disagreeing with your points" Flaming.

[Natenn]

More directed at Cream, not you. I don't see to many ideas out there.

[Karbuncle]

I see. Well then you can disregard that.

As its obvious we have similar views on how endgame should end up.

[Cream_Soda]

No, basically what im saying is, gear should reflect skill lvl. In that regard claiming should be hard, and the fights even harder then that. But you come off as all "No competition for anything plz". If SE not gonna make HNM in the traditional sense then make it getting a pop exceedingly difficult idc. Seeing bad players in good gear is sickening to me. Hoping these voidwatch are all hard with time limits or else they depop or rage after X amount of time.

Instead of flaming on me, what would you suggest to the idea of new "HNM"? How would you set it up? Make it all easy so everyone can kill with out strategy and little to no effort? Thats basically what abyssea is now.
That's the thing though, gear only reflects the skill of a GROUP, not of individuals. Do you know how many gimp ridills , and adabeurks I was outdamaing in my brown belt, scorpion harness, republigar (when I first dinged 75 lol) mnk?

Just because they were able to get the HNM items doesn't mean they were good players.

You have the people who play X job and get gear in their HNM for Y job, get on Y job and utterly fail at it, etc.

There were always horrible players w/ good gear. If you're just noticing this at abyssea release, then you must have selective vision.

As far as the second half goes, again, 21-24 hour claim has 0 to do with the difficulty of the NM, so while I have no direct solution, I don't see where 21-24 hour NMs would be the solution, either.

[Mrbeansman]

Why are you still arguing with him it's obvious he doesn't care about hard HNMs just having amazing gear no one else should be allowed to have.

[Orson]

That's the thing though, gear only reflects the skill of a GROUP, not of individuals. Do you know how many gimp ridills , and adabeurks I was outdamaing in my brown belt, scorpion harness, republigar (when I first dinged 75 lol) mnk?

I'd like to add the quality of gear doesn't even necessarily make the group skilled. A lot of LSs are freaking pathetic yet have so many bodies and bots they get the best gear anyways. The fact of the matter is really by the time ToAU was released anyone with a decent sized group could do kings and such.

[Cream_Soda]

I concur, young sir.

[Natenn]

Im saying SE should MAKE IT so gear reflects skill, make another super hard NM in the traditional sense like AV/PW but make it so you don't need 30 ppl to kill, make an NM thats difficult to an alliance, put it in a BC idc. the best suff should be HARD to obtain.

[Mrbeansman]

Im saying SE should MAKE IT so gear reflects skill, make another super hard NM in the traditional sense like AV/PW but make it so you don't need 30 ppl to kill, make an NM thats difficult to an alliance, put it in a BC idc. the best suff should be HARD to obtain.

There is no hard in this. Once you know how a mob ticks it's not hard to find a strategy that works 100% of the time. And before you say anything about AV/PW remember that working strategies where found for those too. Any kind of superiority you want to feel will fade once this happens.

[Anewie]

I wouldn't mind a more superior type of endgame/HNM scene returning but im posting after being in an Abys group with a few very very very terrible players who have the same stuff as me.

Although I don't agree with everything Nat says, I am really missing the old scene. You had five types of players, the players that were great and had great gear, the players that werent that good but cheated/botted so they still got great gear, the players that sucked and were noobish and had terrible gear, and finally the players that were good players but kept getting screwed out of claims for the good stuff.


Orson/Cream/Surreal, I can understand why you guys dont want endgame to return to what it was, thats understandable. You're in the player base that was decently well skilled. I know you're from LTC Orson and that LS was amazing. Thing is, i am personally tired of an endgame where I am equal to a "noob". I guess it makes me look like an asshole but honestly.. I worked hard for my gears, I enjoyed it and the game and I am good at my jobs, average at worst.

If you cannot play your jobs well and work well in team oriented events, or even do things well on you're own, why should your gear be equal to that of a dedicated, hard working, team player? Or even someone who prefers solo/duo play but does their job real well.


Abyssea enourages people to suck/not care and not pay attention. Besides procs (which is lol itself) you're looking at an almost mindless event that is built around spamming. Its actually similiar to camping but camping was a lot of fun if u had the time and patience (kings aside). LTC didnt bot HNMs and they got quit a bit of cerb,khim,tia,di,sw. They even controlled them quite a bit. Camping was mindless but it required dedication, thats an undeniable fact and you couldn't suck. It required a Minmum amount of decent skill. You remember 4hour tiamats? No stuns khims? It does take some skill.

Abyssea? Although its wonderful for casual stuff and offers a ton of stuff, for the more higher quality player, its just a spamfest that offers no real fun besides the 10k Blizzard 5s and 30k wildfires. And u know someone gets those numbers im sure...

That's really the only thing to it. Hard? Easy doesnt even compare. It is x1000 easier than anything FFXI has ever experienced in its entire lifespam and disencourages everything the game was built around.

Think about the future. I doubt any new expansions/add ons are coming. I'm sorry but I would have rather the game stayed at the point it was. At least had Longevity and alternate methods for non campers. Odin was easier to get access too than Nidhogg, and thats a fact. The only items people missed out on really were khim,tia,di,sw items and most of it wasnt even needed. Luxury items and gil only, sup. The people that chose to spend hours upon hours camping didnt benefit outside having gil for relics and hauteclair/gaiters. Hauteclair always sucked once mythic ws came out, if u werent using joyeues u failed at life and gaiters were not needed one bit. I sold mine, twice.

HNM camping offered a luxury of items and gil, thats it. Now luxury shouldnt be exclusive to camping and spending hours searcing for a mob, I agree with that but luxury SHOULD come from more dedication, more effort. If SE implemented measure that made botting/cheating on world spawns 100% ineffective, do you really think all the hnm world spawn shells would have giveen up? No, they would have just kept it tighter and kept trying. That player base did cause a lot of drama but they were dedicated to the game and the scene because they enjoyed camping. Did some just wanna block others? Yes but that is not the majority, honestly. Most were just so into camped and enjoyed it,or just wanted some king gear.

If someone told me they just wanted to block xx from getting such and such I would be like, wtf? If you enjoy camping, great. If you want the gear and wanna work for it, awesome but block someone just to be superior? That's really pathetic and i honestly never knew anyone like that in my scenes.

There should be some luxury content available to players who are talented, dedicated players. Everyone should get a chance at the same stuff but the game shouldnt limit content to those who aren't willing to be dedicated do well on their jobs or EVEN have the free time. If people enjoy camping, I think SE shouldnt hold back on adding such content because another player, who doesnt want to put forth the effort and time, wont get a chance at it.

The same applies for non camps. Abyssea should continue. It just needs to end as the highest quality of endgame content, and the new content should offer some some more elite quality entertainment that keeps the player base engaged and dedicated. Content that requires focus, team work and or high skill level for duo/solo a bit of luck(to make things interesting)and is fair. I do not think the unfair part of long world spawns was because of the timer. It was unfair because of the cheaters.


Theres nothing wrong with wanting to be a superior player if you're good and dedicated and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I did however just get out of an abys party where this SMN in 5/5 af3 telling me how avatar hate REALLY WORKS in a pet party. I bet you can probably guess who died? Yeah, no. I want higher quality content available to the better player. Learning how game mechanics work to better how you play (i said play.. not cheat) should be rewarded and although that reward should be available to any player, it should REQUIRE more effort/time/skill on their behalf!

btw, Camps didnt require skill. It was just a rush and a lot of fun. Anticipating pop and rushing/searching. It was awesome for a bit when you had the time. But lol@ skill to kill that stuff.

You know, everyone should just do what they want to do with their game. Stop being inconsiderate jerks, and stop being whiney lil babies. If you want gear and enjoy the process, go for it. Don't cheat or block others... And if you don't have the time, will power or means to do something in game, do stuff you can do. Don't cry about how you can't do such and such because you don't have the means. That's not really anyones problem and shouldnt effect someone elses activities. The same applies to cheaters.

[Orson]

Im saying SE should MAKE IT so gear reflects skill, make another super hard NM in the traditional sense like AV/PW but make it so you don't need 30 ppl to kill, make an NM thats difficult to an alliance, put it in a BC idc. the best suff should be HARD to obtain.

Both AV and PW weren't hard. They were just plain broken. Aside from that it's obvious that you do understand difficulty has no correlation to whether a HNM is popped or free spawn. That said it boils down too 2 things luck and free time. If that's the case I'm not sure how you can argue that only the best players will get the best gear with that system.

That said though I'd like to point out SE is adjusting kings to make them more accessible. I'm guessing they're are beginning to realize that it's a tiny minority of people that like the king's system.

@Ane
I still like the idea of working as good sized team and I will admit at times chasing down NMs and claiming could be fun. The problem was that frustrating elements just out weighed the fun.

[Karbuncle]

There is no hard in this. Once you know how a mob ticks it's not hard to find a strategy that works 100% of the time. And before you say anything about AV/PW remember that working strategies where found for those too. Any kind of superiority you want to feel will fade once this happens.

We found out how to kill AV the "right" way and not BW(before nerf) / PD Zerging? Or were you just talking about BW / PD Zerging.

Genuinely curious if i missed the right way >.>; I know it was found how to lock 2hours eventually, Least i recall reading it. I used to keep up on it so much it coulda been a dream.

[Orson]

We found out how to kill AV the "right" way and not BW(before nerf) / PD Zerging? Or were you just talking about BW / PD Zerging.

Genuinely curious if i missed the right way >.>; I know it was found how to lock 2hours eventually, Least i recall reading it. I used to keep up on it so much it coulda been a dream.

To my knowledge there has never been a straight up tank and spank win.

[Mrbeansman]

We found out how to kill AV the "right" way and not BW(before nerf) / PD Zerging? Or were you just talking about BW / PD Zerging.

Genuinely curious if i missed the right way >.>; I know it was found how to lock 2hours eventually, Least i recall reading it. I used to keep up on it so much it coulda been a dream.

No wasn't talking about the "right" way I said we found a way.

[Natenn]

Idea: add new kings since you are nerfing old ones, 21-24hr or 3-5 day and make the pop area the whole zone for places that are huge with tons of obstacles to get around so they can't be claimed immediately. Don't let HNMs die. Im hoping new ones are planned for Lv99 with this slaughter house move they just pulled on kings.

[Anewie]

Yes and please add alternate means to obtain the gear VIA BCNM, so it's fair to casual players too. Don't take the camping aspect from the game, just add alternate means to obtaining the rewards and also invent cleverrandom ways of the spawn to prevent botting.

[Natenn]

I don't think they should put drops in any BCNM, if they don't wanna try to claim they shouldn't be rewarded for QQing to devs on forum.

[Karbuncle]

Good Idea.

I think they should be 1-20 Day spawns, and in order for it to spawn someone has to be actively camping it for at least 15 hours. Furthermore, I really think to make it enjoyable, the NM should only have ~0.5% Drop rate on its good items. So its really really hardcore, So when I'm in town, I can feel like I'm cool. I need a Bigger E-peen.

And they should spawn in the middle of Soul Flayers and Imps, True-Sight mobs, SO while you're actively camping them you're forced to fight things. and if anyone dies it resets its spawn timer, regardless of it being killed or not. That'd be super fun. Also, At least 2 Souflayers and an Imp need to be killed every 10 minutes in order for the HNM to pop, if it doesn't happen, the Window Resets back to 1-20 days. That'd be SUPER Hardcore.

They should also make sure it drops the best items in the game, So people are forced into those Soulflayer-Imp camps to get these items, for at least 1-20 days. That way the armor is really exclusive and rare. It'd be so much fun if you ask me. Days of the Casuals need to end.

Edit:(Hurr Hurr I'm being sarcastic.)

[Cream_Soda]

Once a month spawns or gtfo

[Natenn]

Once a month fine by me, stop bein mad Karby. Responses like that are probably why kings were just made harder to get.

[Karbuncle]

I thought it was rather funny~ I giggled when i typed it. You seem to be the mad one :(

[Natenn]

I can claim, so no, i wouldn't be mad.

Thinking process of a anti world spawn person through the eyes of me: "Hmmmmm HNM drop best gear but its a once per day spawn, -le goes to where it pops-, OMG OTHER PPL!? how dare i not be handed these drops w/o earning/trying to claim, -QQs on forums-, -SE nerfs said HNM making it harder to get and lowers drop rates-." Its apparent from the latest move by SE on the "kings" crying will only make things worse. Not only would it now be harder to gain access to bb item/king specific drops/ect but QQers have effectivly ruined the game for ppl who liked camping them.

[Karbuncle]

Nah. I'm wouldn't be upset.

I simply wouldn't camp them :) I can have fun in this game without owning the best e-peen gear.

[Cream_Soda]

I can claim, so no, i wouldn't be mad.

Thinking process of a anti world spawn person through the eyes of me: "Hmmmmm HNM drop best gear but its a once per day spawn, -le goes to where it pops-, OMG OTHER PPL!? how dare i not be handed these drops w/o earning/trying to claim, -QQs on forums-, -SE nerfs said HNM making it harder to get and lowers drop rates-." Its apparent from the latest move by SE on the "kings" crying will only make things worse. Not only would it now be harder to gain access to bb item/king specific drops/ect but QQers have effectivly ruined the game for ppl who liked camping them.
oh well, not everyone can be happy.

[Natenn]

Hey man, congratulations! :)

[Anewie]

I LOVE U CREAM!

Also! I laughed at your post natenn on the last page. "OMG OTHER PEOPLE!?" lol. Yeah, as if nid back in the day would be wandering free. w

[Natenn]

I probably should of called thread "Any new timed HNMs comming?" Its really boring w/o an HNM endgame, i usually log on for an hour or two and sit in MH hoping something happens but its like a ghost town.

[Doombringer]

imo, any new hnm needs to be force pop, or COMPLETELY random. i mean spawn anywhere, at anytime.. no window, no placeholders. no shortlist of areas it can spawn either, i mean ANYWHERE. make it impossible to camp. make it so the only way people find it is by doing something else, and stumbling upon it. that would at least be interesting.

as for drops, i think a random hnm should have a crazy awesome loot pool. make it drop EVERYTHING. so finding it and killing it is like winning the lottery, BUT every one of it's drops should still be attainable somewhere else. not all in one place, but 1 or 2 items here, another couple here, so on, so forth. make it's only "unique" drop a title.

actually, i suppose that would be a decent way to revive the old style hnm's to, give them these epic loot pools, but then fragment those pools among other more accessible content.



but if you insist on having long timed hnm's as the ONLY option to attain top tier gear, then you're obviously motivated by some schoolyard urge to go "nana look what i have and you don't!" however, unlike school, we can very easily quit FFXI when it becomes a miserable experience dominated by "the cool kids"

[Karbuncle]

I probably should of called thread "Any new timed HNMs comming?" Its really boring w/o an HNM endgame, i usually log on for an hour or two and sit in MH hoping something happens but its like a ghost town.

Actually, That makes things clearer i think.

It simply sounds to me like you grow bored of the game and wish there was something to force you to break the monotony. It also seems like your friends don't do as much anymore either.

I think you're seeing "HNMs' Through Nostalgia as a means that always forced you to be active. now in the days where you find yourself sitting in the mog house, you wish for something to force you to be active, Like an NM spawning.

I don't think you want new HNMs, I think you just want something to force you to be active, because you grow bored of the game. Theres nothing wrong with growing bored of a game however, Even if theres repeatedly new fresh content, you'll eventually grow bored of even your most favorite game.

[Natenn]

More like sitting in canyon doing Glavoids for 10 ppl gets annoying. I wanna do stuff other ppl can't do. Abyssea the only thing to do, and since VWNM gonna give cruor buffs it just makes things even worse. More crutches for the sloppy portion of players left.

[Akujima]

There are only three possibilities for HNM "challenge"

A. A 100% win strategy is figured out, and it becomes easy.

B. It's impossible to kill (e.g. oldschool Absolute Virtue)

C. Whether you win or loose is a lottery based on what it does. Either you get lucky and win or you are unlucky and it does something and destroys you.

SOLUTION.

Alter Point C. so that it does a devastating effect when it reaches 50% HP (ensuring that all tanks, healers, mages and DD need to be topped off with near full HP to survive), instead of having it "luckily destroy you".

Mix Point A. with C. so that the win strategy changes on the fly, depending on what "Phase" the NM is in. This would force players to be on their toes all the time, raising the difficulty significantly. Have AT LEAST 3 or more of these "Phases" that would play out in a random order (very important).

The "Phase" shifting would occur at randomly timed intervals, to ensure that nobody loses focus, or that it feels too robotic. These timed intervals would also be a random amount, (such as 1, 3 and 5 minutes) and that order would never be repeated in a single fight.

EXAMPLE: Dragon Type~ NM

Phase 1: On the ground.
- The Dragon is highly susceptible to melee damage, but is Resistant to Magic and Ranged Attacks.
- The Dragon dishes out high melee damage and enfeebles to the front line jobs/
- The Melee and Tank have their work cut out for them in this stage. Melee needs to do damage quick, but not pull hate off the Tank and die. The Tank needs keep hate from the Melee so that they don't pull hate and get KO'd.

Phase 2: Standing on Hind Legs, Wings Glowing.
- The Dragon is highly resistant to Ranged Attacks and Melee Attacks, but Magic cures the Dragon or is reflected back to the caster.
- The Dragon deals incredible high AoE damage that targets a single person (usually the tank)
- The Melee have to get out of range quick, to avoid being KO'd by it's heavy AoE.
- The Healers have their work cut out for them in this phase. They have to make sure the Tank stays alive and is topped off to survive his massive damage.
- The Mages need to not nuke, so that the Dragon won't get healed/reflect damage to them.

Phase 3: Flying in the Air
- The Dragon is highly susceptible to Ranged Attacks and Magic Damage
- The Dragon dishes out Ranged AoE Attacks on random targets with no enmity table.
- The Entire Alliance would have to spread out, in order for their to be less damage taken as a whole.
- The Ranged Attackers and Mages get to work and blast him hard in this Phase.
- The Tanks and Melee position themselves so that if they get hit with an AoE blast from above, its not near other members.

Random Time rotation of Phases.

Phase 1: lasts 3 minutes
Phase 3: lasts 5 minutes ======= Section 1
Phase 2: lasts 1 minute

Phase 3: lasts 1 minute
Phase 2: lasts 3 minutes ======= Section 2
Phase 1: lasts 1 minute

Phase 2: lasts 5 minutes
Phase 3: lasts 3 minutes ======= Section 3
Phase 1: lasts 5 minutes

You can mix and match each section, and there would be countless possibilities for the Phases to be random each and every battle.

Adding this sort of extreme dynamics, would crank up the difficulty and make the fight rely heavily on focus, teamwork and coordination. Rather than it being just solely based on gear/stats/equipment.

And...

Point B. is irrelevant. Absolute Virtue was not impossible to defeat, just extremely difficult +3.

[RaenRyong]

More like sitting in canyon doing Glavoids for 10 ppl gets annoying. I wanna do stuff other ppl can't do. Abyssea the only thing to do, and since VWNM gonna give cruor buffs it just makes things even worse. More crutches for the sloppy portion of players left.

Unless you did AV/PW at 75 cap, you've never done anything the majority of people can't do.

[Karbuncle]

More like sitting in canyon doing Glavoids for 10 ppl gets annoying. I wanna do stuff other ppl can't do. Abyssea the only thing to do, and since VWNM gonna give cruor buffs it just makes things even worse. More crutches for the sloppy portion of players left.

Yah, I know that kinda sucks.

Also, Hopefully the buffs for the VW system aren't as powerful as Abyssea... So there won't be that "Big" of a crutch for players. While i think the content should be accessible, I think the idea of watching a duo group Zombie something for 40 minutes is a bit on the extreme side.

Need to let SE know we love Abyssea, but at the same time, challenging content away from that system would be lovely too.

(however, do take note, NMs like Rani, Raja, Ogopogo(yes, hes a whore), Shinryu, etc, show even with our god-buffs, some NMs can be quite difficult. So while we may get these "buffs" in the new system, the NMs may pose a good threat still!)

Both = Win.

[Sureal]

show me an hnm that was in the game 7 years ago, and ill show you an hnm that can be zombied to death

apparently you forgot that gilsellers were not only claiming but killing hnm's

there was a zombie fight of AV that lasted 3 days when one group first got it to stop 2houring

avesta could solo pretty much anything before you knew it existed

oh and the hardest thing this game has ever had, you still havent beaten the way SE wants you too


so tell me natenn, when you wake up, do you cry, do tears come out of your eyes cause i got what i wanted, and your "game" is now over with? how long till you quit, have you already, do you have a razor blade next to your bed


QQ more, we won, you lost

[Natenn]

brb bumping a 2 week old thread cause im mad.

ANYWAY, who is this "we" you are reffering to? what exactly did you win? and how did I lose? What did i lose? we still got 2 lvl cap increases yet to be implemented and it would make sense to add "real" HNM at 99, stop trying to act like you know me, chances are im more skilled then you, go flame elsewhere my friend.

[Natenn]

With that aside, we should get "real" HNM at 99 id hope. Ones found through exploration that are rarely up and have great drops. Also hard enough that the average LS would have plenty of trouble, so many old players waiting on new HNM to come back to reactivate their accounts.

[Sureal]

the "we" is you and your minions who think world pop hnm's are the way to be

you lost because your precious world pop hnm's are now spawned, awwwwww

and how does it make sense to be actively changing the game away from the way it was, only to bring it back at 99, it doesnt thats how


and ill throw your own "logic" against you, you dont know me, dont act like you do, and chances are your not better than me, and im not better than you, but i do see the bigger picture much better than you, youve made that more than obvious, so go crawl back into your bed, QQ into your pillow, and let me get back to my game lol


btw, when you quit, can i have your stuff, apparently you have a lot of really good stuff from all your PS2 CLAIMING lol

[Arlan]

Actually Sureal ..>.>
Maybe you should let him give me his stuff instead... I could use more good stuff from his PS2 Claiming lol

[Natenn]

Guess we'll see at or a few updates after 99 won't we?

[Sharktopus]

Natenn is obviously one of the only skilled players posting in here, and yes, its because he understands that HNM are meant for the dedicated player, not the people hoping for all poppable nm's all the time. You dont need a bot to claim so stop using that as an excuse on why up until abyssea your characters gear sucked. And honestly, the excitement from just claiming an HNM outweighs the gear it drops. Im sure a majority of the people that are against time spawns have actually never even tried to camp with their amazing social ls, because "everyone bots". Maybe go out with more than your 3 friends and update your 56k dial up modem and youll see your claim rate increase. HNM is endgame, and endgame is not for everybody, sorry. Either get better and join a real ls or stick to things you can kill within the 2 hours a day you feel like playing the game.

[Anewie]

Natenn is obviously one of the only skilled players posting in here, and yes, its because he understands that HNM are meant for the dedicated player, not the people hoping for all poppable nm's all the time. You dont need a bot to claim so stop using that as an excuse on why up until abyssea your characters gear sucked. And honestly, the excitement from just claiming an HNM outweighs the gear it drops. Im sure a majority of the people that are against time spawns have actually never even tried to camp with their amazing social ls, because "everyone bots". Maybe go out with more than your 3 friends and update your 56k dial up modem and youll see your claim rate increase. HNM is endgame, and endgame is not for everybody, sorry. Either get better and join a real ls or stick to things you can kill within the 2 hours a day you feel like playing the game.

As much I like the general meaning of your post, I have to disagree.

Game has changed and the company has REALLY changed. I don't like the changes but it is what it is.

Do I hope for more HNM spawn? Yeah. Do I think it will happen? Probably not. That's just looking at the general direction they have taken the updates. Update get more and more rediculous/pointless/lolz.

iQuit but if they add new hnm and more variety to endgame (that makes SENSE... /stare dynamis update) then maybe someday i'll make a comeback. I'm not an elitest bitch, I'm a bored one who will not be trolled or taken advantage of by SE.

I know people will come to SE defense but a lot of the stuff they do feels very trollish. It feels like theyre trying to milk us while not providing us with meaty content/updates. Fixes do not satiosfy me. They broke the game, they should hire the manpower and rescourses to fix it and DRAGGING the new cap out, imo, is probably due to the fact that they WONT address this issue because they don't want or don't have the manpower to fix or readjust XI. This is not limited to HNMs.

I will not be milked or distracted from the fact that abyssea has made this game suck and the updates following it have been abyssea related ish. I'm sick of abyssea. I... Can't. I hate the dynamis changes JUST because RELICS SUCK.. People are complaining about the usefullness of RELICS not the entertaining quality of DYNAMIS.. GTFO *rage*. Oh look! Neat little fixes for dynamis! K.. But relics still suck and thats the reason for dynamis and no w-t-f change to offer me 3 weeks worth of amusement is going to change that. Throwing the player base little pieces of bread is not gonna cut it. We want a steak. I'm not falling for this "oh.. were just slowly raising the cap due to balance issues and we have something up our sleeve *wink*".

Talk to the hand SE, ok? What balance issues?.. Most ppl have all jobs they want 90 and cap merits. What you holding out for? Oh, idk.. Maybe it's because you know this is it for FFXI due to resource issue because your mmo (which ffxi is funding) is bombing harder the spirits within, which was actually a good movie. You guys probably don't have many varsatile plans for the game. This direction is pretty much it and it will mostly be fixes excluding the cap increase and JA/Magic additions. Lol@new areas,expansion,ps2 limtations, new mob colors,hearty content etc etc.

Though, I could be wrong. I hope I am. As an 8 year retired player, I'd love to eat my words. But I know a marketing scheme when I see one and this "holding out" the new cap is probably tied into the plans and timeline that is Fixing Final Fantasy XIV. Hmmm, I wonder why. Lolz.

[Natenn]

Natenn is obviously one of the only skilled players posting in here, and yes, its because he understands that HNM are meant for the dedicated player, not the people hoping for all poppable nm's all the time. You dont need a bot to claim so stop using that as an excuse on why up until abyssea your characters gear sucked. And honestly, the excitement from just claiming an HNM outweighs the gear it drops. Im sure a majority of the people that are against time spawns have actually never even tried to camp with their amazing social ls, because "everyone bots". Maybe go out with more than your 3 friends and update your 56k dial up modem and youll see your claim rate increase. HNM is endgame, and endgame is not for everybody, sorry. Either get better and join a real ls or stick to things you can kill within the 2 hours a day you feel like playing the game.

i agree, especially with the first sentance.

[Akujima]

Though, I could be wrong. I hope I am. As an 8 year retired player, I'd love to eat my words. But I know a marketing scheme when I see one and this "holding out" the new cap is probably tied into the plans and timeline that is Fixing Final Fantasy XIV. Hmmm, I wonder why. Lolz.


Anewie, why are your posts so beautiful? <3

[Sureal]

so you DO agree that the claim is the excitement and not the gear, so put hte same gear on bcnm mobs


oh wait, you still want to have something to lord over players

i.e. you want to feel elite about something and feel as though a game is your best opportunity, got it

[Natenn]

Don't put it in a BCNM, then it not gonna be special. Fight for the best gear = real endgame.

[Sureal]

you all may say, oh this game is going downhill, they are killing the game, they are losing customers. when in actuallity i do believe more players are coming back for the way the game is now, the game is more community oriented, and much more friendly. when fafhogg was the endallbeall of endgame, people were straight up assholes to each other, you were forced to play much longer than you really should in one sitting (thereby negating the opening warning to the game that they do not want you to ignore your REAL LIFE), knowing that i can log on, AND ACTUALLY GET SHIT DONE in 2 hours is awesome

world spawn nm's, while they filled a niche, and i understand what they were going for, were a dumb idea, because as has been stated, after the first kill, there was no challenge, AN NO, CLAIMING IS NOT THAT CHALLENGE, claiming was an epeen event, LOOK AT ME, I CLAIMED THE SAME MONSTER 15 DAYS IN A ROW AND YOU DONT GET TO FIGHT YET AGAIN CAUSE IM MORE LEET THAN YOU WILL EVER BE LAWLS, you know what, i dont care what gear you have, it does not affect me on a day to day basis, i dont log off crying thinking to myself "he has so much better gear than me, why cant i be as good as him" even when faf was king, i didnt look at the other ls's and think they were better people, as a group yes, there are some better ls's overall, but on a personal level i despised people because they were bottlenecking endgame for me and others, i dont feel that way now, in this game, at that time, if you wanted to merit/xp on certain jobs you had to have certain gear or you might as well just log off, now you dont have to have the best of the best, you dont have to camp fafhogg daily, there is movement for the general populus, but at the same time there is gear that the general populus will not be able to get just for the difficulty in trials, or relics, or mythics. and do not come in here crying about relics sucking, you sir have done no research whatsoever, as i just spent all of 10 mins perusing ffxiclopedia's weapons database only to find that in every, let me repeat that, EVERY instance where they had the information for relics, mythics, and empeyreans at the same lvl (i.e. all fully upgraded at lvl 90), the relic was the winner, not some of the time, not the majority of the time, EVERY SINGLE TIME, yeah, you put in a lot of work to get your 75 relic, and i applaud you for that, but do you truely expect your lvl 75 weapon to be better than a fully upgraded lvl 90 empeyrean?

final fantasy is finally becoming what the original developers wanted, a community based game, where you NEED help to do things, but you will not spend days upon days just lfp, if you dont like it leave, most of your ilk have already, the rest of us will enjoy this new game

ktxhbai


p.s. can i have your stuff?

[Sureal]

Don't put it in a BCNM, then it not gonna be special. Fight for the best gear = real endgame.


but i thought it was the CLAIMING that was exciting, the titles, i mean that is what you said

[Natenn]

Like i said, nothing obtainable so easily is worth working hard towards. But gj on the wall of text, all i got from it was an "I'm mad". Game is going down hill w/o real HNM to camp, if it were comming back they would bring back a few servers but what happened last big update? More servers got shutdown. Can try to glorify abyssea/thinking cause you can pop and kill a NM that every other person on server killed is endgame but its not, i think of it more like sticking a pacifyer in a babys mouth. Don't see me complain/hate every post, just waitin on the new HNMs to be added eventually.

[Sureal]

actually i do see you complaining every post, hell, this entire thread is you complaining


so, can i have your stuff yet?

[Natenn]

Go earn it.

[Arlan]

you all may say, oh this game is going downhill, they are killing the game, they are losing customers. when in actuallity i do believe more players are coming back for the way the game is now, the game is more community oriented, and much more friendly. when fafhogg was the endallbeall of endgame, people were straight up assholes to each other, you were forced to play much longer than you really should in one sitting (thereby negating the opening warning to the game that they do not want you to ignore your REAL LIFE), knowing that i can log on, AND ACTUALLY GET SHIT DONE in 2 hours is awesome

world spawn nm's, while they filled a niche, and i understand what they were going for, were a dumb idea, because as has been stated, after the first kill, there was no challenge, AN NO, CLAIMING IS NOT THAT CHALLENGE, claiming was an epeen event, LOOK AT ME, I CLAIMED THE SAME MONSTER 15 DAYS IN A ROW AND YOU DONT GET TO FIGHT YET AGAIN CAUSE IM MORE LEET THAN YOU WILL EVER BE LAWLS, you know what, i dont care what gear you have, it does not affect me on a day to day basis, i dont log off crying thinking to myself "he has so much better gear than me, why cant i be as good as him" even when faf was king, i didnt look at the other ls's and think they were better people, as a group yes, there are some better ls's overall, but on a personal level i despised people because they were bottlenecking endgame for me and others, i dont feel that way now, in this game, at that time, if you wanted to merit/xp on certain jobs you had to have certain gear or you might as well just log off, now you dont have to have the best of the best, you dont have to camp fafhogg daily, there is movement for the general populus, but at the same time there is gear that the general populus will not be able to get just for the difficulty in trials, or relics, or mythics. and do not come in here crying about relics sucking, you sir have done no research whatsoever, as i just spent all of 10 mins perusing ffxiclopedia's weapons database only to find that in every, let me repeat that, EVERY instance where they had the information for relics, mythics, and empeyreans at the same lvl (i.e. all fully upgraded at lvl 90), the relic was the winner, not some of the time, not the majority of the time, EVERY SINGLE TIME, yeah, you put in a lot of work to get your 75 relic, and i applaud you for that, but do you truely expect your lvl 75 weapon to be better than a fully upgraded lvl 90 empeyrean?

final fantasy is finally becoming what the original developers wanted, a community based game, where you NEED help to do things, but you will not spend days upon days just lfp, if you dont like it leave, most of your ilk have already, the rest of us will enjoy this new game

ktxhbai


p.s. can i have your stuff?

This post has very good points. I totally agree, the game has finally become more fun since majority of players are able to get things done together with friends and LS mates without the 21-24hour HNMs Repop..

21-24hour NMs limit the amount of players who want to kill the NMs for drops. This is a problem because only people who can build their "LIFE SCHEDULE" around a "VIDEO GAME" can actually be able to get access to the content while majority who log on to play the game for fun can't.

People have lives, people have work, people have families, people have friends in RL. You have to have absolutly no life whats so ever to agree the time consuming elements that holds off challenging elements, are fun.

Lets face it, Time consuming elements are made so you can be kept in game longer doing the same thing over rather than challenge you with fights. Claiming is not even part of the challenge and if it is, then thats why the community is getter better since SE is making more NMs "???" pop markers so people can take turns rather than Fighting each other for a simple chance to fight an NM.

If you want hard core competitions then go play World of war craft. That game has many PVP elements to it for players who love competitions in a lot of aspects. FFXI's PVP system really is bad for that. FFXi was build more around the PvE so players can team up against the environment. Against the mobs, not against each other.

I want FFXI to have more PVP elements but I do NOT want SE to make it a "CLAIM WAR".
If claiming becomes the true competition in this game then this game fails cause trying to claim from another player is not fun, specially the fact thay you got one chance at it and if you lose, you need to wait another 21-24hours window to pop.

Make the game less time consuming and more challenging for any gamers to have access and enjoy the contents. Those who finish contents too fast and play 12hours a day and have nothing to do in game needs to go outside for a change and get a job in RL rather than playing like a bot.

Thats all I gotta say.

[Sureal]

but dont you remember, you said i just wanted everything handed to me, gah, as if i would go out and do work


/sarcasm off

[Glamdring]

I used to be against the addition of new HNMs, but I've changed my mind. I didn't like the HNMLS-type players when the cap was 75. Now that they've been forced to join the regular players against the same mobs I see that I was right. PLease add something for them to go monopolize so they'll get lost and the rest of us can easily ignore them entirely again.