[dev1009] New Trigger Conditions for Notorious Monsters really?

[Shymithra]

Been reading the update and it seems that they went ahead with this horrible idea. Even with all the negitive feed back (grant there were a few that liked it, sure they won't once they have to gather the ppl for it and hope ppl got enough kindred seals but hey thats just my opinion). Thanks 3 times the work for less reward Thats what it sure looks like. Hopefully this update gets people out of the mind set if its not abyssea stuff its useless and people actually do this other wise its going to be another big flop.

[Drivont]

pretty sure this was in regards to dropping the BLU magic procs.... i dunno though

[Drivont]

oh wait.... EWWWW this is the HNM crap.... yeah.... BOO....

[Phoenyx]

Because waiting a day to stand in a zone for 0-3 hours for a chance to claim one of two mobs against any number of other people is a vastly superior system. /sarcasm

[Shymithra]

I'm not saying the old system was better but it certainly wasn't worse if anything they should have drasticly shorten the respawn time or put mobs in the zone that drop the pop item. KSNM99 thats just stupid imo of course.

[Registeel]

I guess it boils down to how much and what type of work people are willing to put into things like Black Belt. The people who really want it will still work their butts off for it, but now instead of long waits and fighting for claims, it's doing fights for spawn items and hoping for item drops. Personally I think the new system is more considerate of players who don't have the time to camp monsters that spawn about once a day, and I like that. But that's just my opinion, and I've only been an FFXI player since Nov. 2010.

[Shymithra]

Gotta look into how much time you will spend gathering people you trust to do their jobs then doing the ksnm99 then the NQ HNM then the King HNM and fighting people for the ??? if there is a flood of people looking to do this. Time saver? maybe or just a quick way to raise your blood pressure.

[RaenRyong]

I'm not saying the old system was better but it certainly wasn't worse if anything they should have drasticly shorten the respawn time or put mobs in the zone that drop the pop item. KSNM99 thats just stupid imo of course.

by what you say above, you are saying the old system is equal to or better than the new one, since it can't be worse.

[blowfin]

I'm not saying the old system was better

That's exactly what you're saying.

To which I say, nonsense.

Also, slightly off topic but I do love being proven right, I did say that the only good reason they'd change kings is because they expected demand to increase for Abj. So they could avoid the pain that was kings on the second time around.

And there we have it.


Gotta look into how much time you will spend gathering people you trust to do their jobs then doing the ksnm99 then the NQ HNM then the King HNM and fighting people for the ??? if there is a flood of people looking to do this. Time saver? maybe or just a quick way to raise your blood pressure.

You make it sound like the KS99's and the kings required a lot of people BEFORE this.

[Registeel]

Gotta look into how much time you will spend gathering people you trust to do their jobs then doing the ksnm99 then the NQ HNM then the King HNM and fighting people for the ??? if there is a flood of people looking to do this. Time saver? maybe or just a quick way to raise your blood pressure.
Fair enough, both have the potential to be frustrating time sinks. I suppose I find the new changes appealing because my linkshell mates all come on at different times, meaning organizing a camp out of something like Behemoth/King Behemoth would be impossible for us with competition for claiming. With KSNM we could set a specific time to do the arena fight, then schedule popping the NMs at our own pace. Guess you could label that as a bit casual line of thinking, but that's just how I feel about it.

[RAIST]

If they had left the BB item drops alone on the NQ/HQ NM's, this would be a non issue--you would have 2 x ~5% chance to get them, one from the KSNM fight(in which you are guaranteed a NQ NM pop item), then one from the NQ NM. Then you would be able to get it from the HQ NM fight IF you get the HQ pop item off the NQ fight.

As they built it now, you can do the KSNM fight, not get a BB item but the pop item, do the NQ NM pop fight, get no BB item AND get NO HQ NM POP--and have to rinse/repeat. If you are unlucky enough to still not get the BB item from the KSNM, you do the NQ and again NOT get the HQ pop item---repeat AGAIN. You finally get to the HQ NM pop because your having crappy luck getting it from the KSNM and CAN'T get it from the NQ NM--and guess what, it's not a 100% drop anymore and you have to do it all AGAIN.

It has the potential to be the same as (or worse) than just spamming the freaking KSNM fights. They should have just left the drop rates alone on the NQ/HQ NM's.

[Shymithra]

Ok let me restate that I don't like the old system or new system think they are both crappy. But rather then changing the old system completely they could have made it better. Ok KSNM99s might not need alot of people if the people you got know what the heck they are doing... You can die on the simplest of things if your team work blows and we all know alot of people since level sync and now abyssea have no clue of what their jobs can and can't do cause they flew thru the levels. KSNMs and Kings still take abit of skill to defeat SE thinks so to otherwise they would have made the mobs harder. The making it more casual I understand that I just think they went about it wrong like I said earlier drasticly shortering the respawn times or adding mobs to the area that drop pop items would have been alot better imo.

[Registeel]

adding mobs to the area that drop pop items would have been alot better imo.
That would be extremely ideal, but Lord knows something like that would never happen, unfortunately.

[Shymithra]

Oh well maybe after the update is done and people go thru it first hand and complain about it they will change it lol. Well thats a big if thou it might actually be good the drop rates might be decent (going by SEs past of making things overly hard I doubt it). Just reading about it thou it feels like one of their worst ideas.

[Shymithra]

Content was deleted by Moderator due to violation of Forum Guidelines.

You have no Idea how I play so don't troll its your opinion thats better nothing more. My friends are skilled players but we arent in same time zones or linkshells so getting them to join me all at once is a chore cause they are either busy or not online. So don't mouth off at what you have no clue about. The only clueless on is here is you. Ive fought everyone of those Kings and the KSNMs I have my Blackbelt so i know exactly what I'm doing when it comes to fighting them. No they aren't hard if you know what you are doing but if you don't you will die and quickly at that.

[Registeel]

Content was deleted by Moderator due to violation of Forum Guidelines.

I don't think anyone so far has shown worry/despair over actual fight difficulties; rather, the luck aspects in regards to pop item/desired reward item drops. It is troubling that a bad turn of luck can turn into seals wasted, but again it's personal opinion on how one feels about working for a chance at getting the good stuff.

[TybudX]

You're in an LS that can't get 1-4 people together at the same time?

edit - @shymithra

[Daremo]

I don't know about you, but I could easily bring a smn, a bst, a whm, and a mnk to kill the KSNM Wyrm... What?

[Shymithra]

You're in an LS that can't get 1-4 people together at the same time?

edit - @shymithra

My Ls has died out pretty much they were waiting for this merger to start back up with another ls but info on if we really are is well vague at best. The other ls I join was the same active till we got closer to merger then sorta died out. Truthfully i doubt if i asked that I would get anyone Intrested enless it benefited them in some way. Yea it sucks lol I'm always willing to help people but getting help in return is another matter.

[SNK]

You have no Idea how I play so don't troll its your opinion thats better nothing more.

I know you obviously didn't camp kings for as long as a lot of people have that actually bitched to SE about this years ago to make these NMs force pops instead of fighting other linkshells for claim.

I lived in DA, VoS, and BD for a long time before I even got close to the gear I wanted. New system is better.

[Shymithra]

I know you obviously didn't camp kings for as long as a lot of people have that actually bitched to SE about this years ago to make these NMs force pops instead of fighting other linkshells for claim.

I lived in DA, VoS, and BD for a long time before I even got close to the gear I wanted. New system is better.

Agian you have no clue how I play or how I've played I've camped Kings long enough and I bitched about the long times just like everyone else its about time they changed it but I dont like the way they changed it is all. As I've been saying in my earlier post they could have went about it differently. When i say Drasticly shorten pop times I mean like They pop 3-5 times a day not once a day not once every few days. Heck if you want it a forced pop I even mentioned that, put mobs in zone that drop pop items or add them to exsisting mobs in zone like they did with alky pop. There were better ways of doing it imo thats all.

[Shymithra]

I've been there The waiting for hours taking breaks at the diffrenet windows blah blah I spent my time camping that bs well before the 90 cap. I've had to deal with hackers, the botters, the seemingly weird lag time where people seem to see/claim the HNM before it even shows on your screen I was there for the tweaks they made to deal with that stuff. I dealt with the demanding HNMls'es that took up all your time that you barely had time to do anything else, it was a pain and i hated it. So when i first saw the fourm saying that it was gonna change to triggers I was delighted then i read it and i hated it.

[TybudX]

If you can't get people to do a BCNM right now, what exactly is your point? It doesn't matter what changes are implemented, you still won't have the manpower to do anything about it.

[Shymithra]

If you can't get people to do a BCNM right now, what exactly is your point? It doesn't matter what changes are implemented, you still won't have the manpower to do anything about it.

I can get people now with shouts... A pick up party but as stated before picking up people that have no clue can really mess up your day, and you have to trust them not to take your items. As of right now I can duo/solo the NQ HNMs I don't need a group for that. But since you need a KSNM now to get to the NQ HNM well that changes a few things now doesnt't it?

[Phoenyx]

As they built it now, you can do the KSNM fight, not get a BB item but the pop item,

Wrong. They have stated that they are not removing the Black belt items from the KS99s. See this post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5782-Dev-1009-Force-Pop-HNM-s-FTW?p=80514&viewfull=1#post80514).

And to the rest of your drivel I say, "Welcome to FFXI." Seriously. You're whining about <100% drop rates on stuff? Having to repeat battles for said stuff? That's the most recurring factor of gameplay. The changes weren't designed to hand you the rewards wrapped in a bow for zero effort, they were designed to actually reward effort, not sitting afk except for ~30 seconds every 30 minutes. Time to put on your big boy/girl pants and grind it out or get out of the way of people who will.

[Ilax]

Agian you have no clue how I play or how I've played I've camped Kings long enough and I bitched about the long times just like everyone else its about time they changed it but I dont like the way they changed it is all. As I've been saying in my earlier post they could have went about it differently. When i say Drasticly shorten pop times I mean like They pop 3-5 times a day not once a day not once every few days. Heck if you want it a forced pop I even mentioned that, put mobs in zone that drop pop items or add them to exsisting mobs in zone like they did with alky pop. There were better ways of doing it imo thats all.

Imo they did the right thing, pop 3~5 time / day would have just made all those bitch hacker/botter more happy, pop item from zone would have made it look like abyssea where everyone fight again everyone. Look at it differently... everyone can farm KS seal from EVERY ZONE.

So what is the problem? Scared by the work to get a pop?


But since you need a KSNM now to get to the NQ HNM well that changes a few things now doesnt't it?

NQ drop rate always been so garbage anyways, instead spending 3h/day to be outclaimed by hacker for a crazzy low drop rate, you now can spend that 3h/day farm KS.

[Cdryik]

pop items aren't rare/ex isn't it? they can be sold in bazaar ?
Since the drop rate in KSNM isn't so horrible, there will be some in sell and price will drop with the time. (only King Behemoth will be camp if it drop Defender Ring, the force pop one).

[Shymithra]

Wrong. They have stated that they are not removing the Black belt items from the KS99s. See this post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5782-Dev-1009-Force-Pop-HNM-s-FTW?p=80514&viewfull=1#post80514).

And to the rest of your drivel I say, "Welcome to FFXI." Seriously. You're whining about <100% drop rates on stuff? Having to repeat battles for said stuff? That's the most recurring factor of gameplay. The changes weren't designed to hand you the rewards wrapped in a bow for zero effort, they were designed to actually reward effort, not sitting afk except for ~30 seconds every 30 minutes. Time to put on your big boy/girl pants and grind it out or get out of the way of people who will.

The whole point was to make this game alittle more casual gamer friendly and they failed. He not saying that you get BB items at all in ksnm99 but its possible you won't drop rate was never that good in first place. For those who think we scared to put in the work I've been putting in work almost since this game came out I'm not scared lol just don't think what they did was smart considering the way the game has turned ( maybe thats just things on ramuh) but if you enjoy putting in more work then needed then enjoy it have your fun. lol We will see what you say after you have done it a few times.

[Shymithra]

Imo they did the right thing, pop 3~5 time / day would have just made all those bitch hacker/botter more happy, pop item from zone would have made it look like abyssea where everyone fight again everyone. Look at it differently... everyone can farm KS seal from EVERY ZONE.

So what is the problem? Scared by the work to get a pop?



NQ drop rate always been so garbage anyways, instead spending 3h/day to be outclaimed by hacker for a crazzy low drop rate, you now can spend that 3h/day farm KS.

Actually the NQ HNM drop rate for BB is been set to 0% now from what i read so Kinda useless doing them cept for mats and such. So now if you want the easy mats you gotta jump thru all kinda of hoops for it now.

[Ilax]

pop items aren't rare/ex isn't it? they can be sold in bazaar ?
Since the drop rate in KSNM isn't so horrible, there will be some in sell and price will drop with the time. (only King Behemoth will be camp if it drop Defender Ring, the force pop one).

Exact, and how long it take to farm 99 seal anyway, i would say 3 day max if you spend 5h/day, imagine now 100 player doing this, that give 33 pop / day. huh.. so imagine if 1000 player farm seal, 333 pop /day. Clearly way better then 1 pop / day... And i am not even talking about ppl like me... who have 3k KS and 3k BS...

i am happy about this change, and hope they also fix those stupid NM in abyssea (amun, hequet, Tunga, and Gukumatz) is yet another waste of time dealing with competition....

[Ilax]

Actually the NQ HNM drop rate for BB is been set to 0% now from what i read so Kinda useless doing them cept for mats and such. So now if you want the easy mats you gotta jump thru all kinda of hoops for it now.

BB item still drop form KS99, and drop always been fairly good, how you think i got my BB? Took me 3 day to get BB for 10 member in my ls. [and that was back @ lv75 cap]

[Shymithra]

pop items aren't rare/ex isn't it? they can be sold in bazaar ?
Since the drop rate in KSNM isn't so horrible, there will be some in sell and price will drop with the time. (only King Behemoth will be camp if it drop Defender Ring, the force pop one).

Don't know yet if they made them R/Ex items i would guess they did. We will see thou Heck if it is possible that the trigs can be Traded and sold that would lighten my position on this making it just a little better.

[Cdryik]

I think they said it was "Ex" (or "rare"), you can only have one item on you. meaning, as long as they are not rare/ex you can freely trade them or sell in bazaar.

Sorry i don't remember where i saw it.

[Cdryik]

Found it !


Just to clarify some questions that have been popping up regarding these adjustments, KSNM99 BCs will continue to drop black belt-related quest items.

Also, another bit of important information you might like to know, the triggers needed to spawn Fafnir/Behemoth/Adamantoise will be tradeable.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5782-Dev-1009-Force-Pop-HNM-s-FTW?p=80514#post80514

[RAIST]

Wrong. They have stated that they are not removing the Black belt items from the KS99s. See this post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5782-Dev-1009-Force-Pop-HNM-s-FTW?p=80514&viewfull=1#post80514).

And to the rest of your drivel I say, "Welcome to FFXI." Seriously. You're whining about <100% drop rates on stuff? Having to repeat battles for said stuff? That's the most recurring factor of gameplay. The changes weren't designed to hand you the rewards wrapped in a bow for zero effort, they were designed to actually reward effort, not sitting afk except for ~30 seconds every 30 minutes. Time to put on your big boy/girl pants and grind it out or get out of the way of people who will.

Think you need to go back and read everything again, including the details on the change.

BB item drops from KSNM at same rate as before, NQ pop item is 100% drop. (you can have a stroke of bad luck and do the KSNM 7 times and never get a BB item, but will get a NQ pop item every time now.

NQ fight will NOT give a BB item (completely removed from the drop pool), and you have a CHANCE to get a HQ pop item (in other words, it is not a 100% drop to get HQ pop). Again, in theory, if this has a low enough pop rate you could fith the NQ 7 times and not get an HQ pop item.

HQ fight is no longer a 100% drop rate. So, when you do make it to the HQ fight, you could get no drop and have to start all over again.

So, again....this system has the potential to be just as bad or worse than just spamming the KSNM fight, which has ALWAYS been an alternative to camping the kings. All this did was change it from a bunch of people waiting on an NM to pop and switched it to wiating for a ??? to pop after they've jumped through enough hoops to get the pop item.

To repeat the infamous cliche----they put lipstick on a pig.

[Shymithra]

Think you need to go back and read everything again, including the details on the change.

BB item drops from KSNM at same rate as before, NQ pop item is 100% drop. (you can have a stroke of bad luck and do the KSNM 7 times and never get a BB item, but will get a NQ pop item every time now.

NQ fight will NOT give a BB item (completely removed from the drop pool), and you have a CHANCE to get a HQ pop item (in other words, it is not a 100% drop to get HQ pop). Again, in theory, if this has a low enough pop rate you could fith the NQ 7 times and not get an HQ pop item.

HQ fight is no longer a 100% drop rate. So, when you do make it to the HQ fight, you could get no drop and have to start all over again.

So, again....this system has the potential to be just as bad or worse than just spamming the KSNM fight, which has ALWAYS been an alternative to camping the kings. All this did was change it from a bunch of people waiting on an NM to pop and switched it to wiating for a ??? to pop after they've jumped through enough hoops to get the pop item.

To repeat the infamous cliche----they put lipstick on a pig.

Thank you this was what I had in mind this could really turn out to be a real head ache just like that. Servers are up now thou and we get to see how it all goes down.

[Tagrineth]

Honestly the only drops that are harder now are dring, ebody, and BB items - and notably, SE blatantly doesn't want BB items to be easier to obtain...

[Tsuneo]

Did four turtle pops this morning, and we did not get any HQ pops. The HQ drop rate is really bad or we just got really unlucky.

[Arianna]

The drop rate on nidhogg, KB and Aspid are terrible, to the point of not even worth trying to get. 0/4 on an aspid KI treasure hunter 10 on each kill of Adamantoise.

I dont understand why SE is protecting kings so much with these terrible drop rates.

[Sama]

SE can simply shorten the pop time required for the king NMs...

They way they changing it not only will make it more annoying (not necessary difficult) to pop but the NM zone will even be more quiet.

[blowfin]

I wish people would realize that this update wasn't just about altering the difficulty of getting BB items, even though the difficulty has been bumped back up to the levels of a couple of years ago, only because Faf and Aspi were becoming very easy (too easy maybe) mobs to claim. I think the update was mainly put in place to stop overcrowding at king camps (again) by people who want abj. for Synergy.


The drop rate on nidhogg, KB and Aspid are terrible, to the point of not even worth trying to get. 0/4 on an aspid KI treasure hunter 10 on each kill of Adamantoise.

To be honest that doesn't sound different from the old kings system. You could go up to 10 before a HQ pop, not to mention the fact that there was a minimum 3 day wait for HQ pops.

A 1/4 or 1/5 drop rate is perfectly reasonable if you're comparing it to the old king system.

[Sama]

A 1/4 or 1/5 drop rate is perfectly reasonable if you're comparing it to the old king system.

In my memory it's actually worst; and, remind yourself, you will have 100ish PC competing with you; now you don't...