The official Dark Knight adjustment and suggestion topic.

[Kagato]

-The Dark Knight Adjustment and Suggestion Topic-

I am making this topic because I am sure that there will be plenty more topics dedicated to ideas. However, in order to have our voices be heard more easily, I find that a single topic should contain all the ideas players have thought about and hope for some changes to be made.

How this will work:
Every day, I will examine this forum as well as other forums like KillingIfrit and ZAM and update this topic with anything that seems to be collectively accepted by Dark Knight players. I will categorize anything I find under different categories, such as equipment, abilities, magic and weapon skills. By doing this, any SquareEnix representative overseeing this forum can find a single post dedicated to things we Dark Knights are requesting rather than having to weed through several topics.

However, that is not to say everyone should just post here. In fact, I don't encourage that. With every good suggestion, there needs to be evidence of player support and a discussion explaining why. That is why I will provide a LINK to the topic and post where the idea first was introduced. This way anyone can see who came up with the idea, where they came up with it and how everyone responded to it. So please, don't use this topic as the only topic that needs attention.

What ideas will qualify:
Ideas that qualify to be posted here will be those that seem to have more positive support. If more people agree than disagree, it qualifies to be edited here. For example, if someone requests a change that would greatly imbalance Dark Knight or give the job something it already has or does not need, it will not make this list. So remember, think wisely.

Other information:
If you are just a guest but you still wish to get your opinion across, send me a Private Message on www.killingifrit.com if you do not have a SquareEnix ID. I will pass on your idea periodically in weekly topics for the Dark Knight players here to discuss. My user name on that website is "Logan Draconia."

And now, we get to the meat of the topic. Here will be the library of suggestions thought up and accepted by players in the Dark Knight community.

Job Abilities

Increased "Blood Weapon" duration.
Source: Ethalio - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/289-Unlike-Cecil-I-ll-forever-be-a-Dark-Knight-!
Increased "Last Resort" duration.
Source: Soeha - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/289-Unlike-Cecil-I-ll-forever-be-a-Dark-Knight-!
"Stances" to swap between a melee mode and a magic mode to allow us to be stronger in both Melee and Magic, but we have to choose which "stance" for which occasion. Similar to how Hasso is an offensive "stance" and Seigan is a defensive "stance." We can only use one at any given time and activating the other cancels out the previous one.


Job Traits

An ability to melee while casting a spell.
Source: NeoLionheart - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/612-Another-cry-for-help-thread-but-with-a-lot-of-junk-to-read!


Equipment
(Nothing yet)

Magic

Faster casting times for Dark Magic, especially Absorb spells.
Source: Zicdeh - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/289-Unlike-Cecil-I-ll-forever-be-a-Dark-Knight-!

New Dark Magic drains, absorbs, and enfeebles (Such as a Dark Magic form of Paralyze or perhaps a Curse spell) specific to Dark Knight only.
Source: Armangetto - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/289-Unlike-Cecil-I-ll-forever-be-a-Dark-Knight-!/page2

Damage-Dealing Dark Magic in the same vain that Divine Magic has Banish and Holy. This can help make a better use of Occult Acumen and allow Dark Knights to participate more strongly in magic battles when melee isn't a good option.
Source: Urteil - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/729-The-official-Dark-Knight-adjustment-and-suggestion-topic./page13


Weapon Skills

A new, updated "Critical Hit" weapon skill in order to keep up with the powerful Weapon Skill damage executed by other jobs.
Source: Septimus - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/289-Unlike-Cecil-I-ll-forever-be-a-Dark-Knight-!

An adjustment to "Guillotine" since it's damage output is lower than most Weapon Skills used by other jobs now.
Source: Seoha - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/289-Unlike-Cecil-I-ll-forever-be-a-Dark-Knight-!/page2

An effect of Stun, Amnesia, Slow, Paralyze, or any sort of attack-hindering status effect against an enemy added to a Weapon Skill for Scythe or Great Sword.
Source: Gamiina - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/289-Unlike-Cecil-I-ll-forever-be-a-Dark-Knight-!


Miscellaneous
(Nothing yet)


*****Everything on this list is subject to change and will constantly be updated!*****

[Kagato]

Top Requests from Dark Knights

Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/3637-Your-top-5-DRK-Adjustment-Requests-Sister-thread-to-the-Official-Adjustment-Topic

8. Strengthen or Parry Skill (4 votes)
-Having an Ability called "Tactical Parry" when we have a low Parry Skill isn't very effective.
-Many would prefer a minimum of a B- in Parry skill.

7. Melee while Casting (9 votes)
-A native trait to Dark Knights to allow us to still inflict Melee damage while casting a spell.

6. 2-Hour Ability Changes (11 votes)
-Make Blood Weapon last longer. Or...
-Change Blood Weapon to a 15-minute recast Job Ability and give us a new 2-hour ability completely.

5. "Stances" added to Dark Knight (17 votes)
-Easy to switch between stances.
-Magical Stance for more effective and stronger magical spells.
-Melee stance to deal more effective melee damage.

4. Shortened Dark Magic casting times. (19 votes)
-Preferred if this was a Dark Knight exclusive.
-Would give more use to casting Absorb Spells mid-battle.

3. Strengthened Job Abilities and Traits. (23 Votes)
-Adjustments to make Occult Acumen stronger by using more tiers of the trait based on level or change it to be affected by casting time instead of MP or Damage dealt.

2. New, stronger Dark Magic Absorbs and Spells. (34 votes)
-Absord SPD (speed) is a popular request. Gives DRK Haste while giving the enemy Slow.
-Slower Decay on Absorbs is another popular request.
-New spells to inflict new enfeebles, such as Terrorize, Curse, Doom or Death.

1. Weapon Skill Changes (36 votes)
-New weapon skill entirely to deal Critical Damage and compete with other powerful weapon skills. Or...
-Changes to current Weapon Skills, such as Guillotine or Quietus, to deal critical damage or have stronger modifiers that DRKs normally use, with more focus on STR and DEX instead of INT and MND.


Goals Met:

May 10th, 2011: Last Resort now on a 3 Minute Duration.
May 10th, 2011: New Job Ability to reduce Souleater HP consumption.

[Raelia]

Decent eternal suggestions:


Magic related:

Absorb-SPD
Applies Slow effect to target and Haste effect to caster.

Occult Acumen needs to be enhanced further for Dark Magic spells, since the calculation is based on MP cost and all for the useful spells on DRK are fairly low in MP cost.

An enhanced Stun-esque spell, possibly Terror or inflicts Terror, and non-elemental to work on Lightning-resistant targets

There is currently an issue after the recalculation of Drain damage that Drain will now outperform Drain II with sufficient Dark Magic Skill (at least, extrapolating past level 90). A change in Drain II's calculations would be nice, and allowing it to work on top of Abyssea's HP buff would be acceptable too.

Return Absorb-TP to it's original effectiveness. Casting a spell for nothing is pointless and trite and makes it un-worthwhile.

Dark Magic Mastery Trait - Increases potency of Dark Magic spells by a moderate +%


Job Trait/Ability related

Two-handed weapon mastery
Reduces delay of two-handed weapons.

It's preferable that this not reduce tp/hit to not break hit-builds.

A trait enhancement to Souleater at higher levels to increase damage without increasing HP loss. Possibly two-handed-weapon only.

Increased Last Resort duration (possibly in the new merit system), not just a few seconds though (which could hardly affect a single swing!) more like pushing it beyond a minute or more.

A job trait that will have an occasional and partial Blood Weapon effect at times when a Scythe is equipped. Should be at least 50% of damage.


Gear Related:

Empyrean +2 equipment has a laughable effect rate at 5%. It's a joke for most jobs really. Increasing the effect only on a full set is also less than worthwhile because that removes more important stats like Haste on DRK.


That covers most of the Allakhazam DRK forum (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=6)'s suggestions.

[RaenRyong]

A native Double Attack trait wouldn't hurt. Caladbolg's delay is also terrible (too low - though obviously this applies only to a much more exclusive group) and severely hinders its otherwise decent potential.

[Kagato]

Thank you for providing these! The suggestions from the Alla-board are all not that bad. Maybe a few unbalancing ideas, but mostly pretty good.

However, the one regarding a natural double-attack just doesn't seem like a good idea. A natural DA seems to be WAR's gift and should stay that way.

[RaenRyong]

Most jobs are having their natural traits spread around and it's very hard for us ever to be respectable compared to WAR if we have a halfbaked Berserk, a halfbaked Aggressor, no Double Attack trait, etc :(

[Masekase]

Thank you for providing these! The suggestions from the Alla-board are all not that bad. Maybe a few unbalancing ideas, but mostly pretty good.

However, the one regarding a natural double-attack just doesn't seem like a good idea. A natural DA seems to be WAR's gift and should stay that way.

Ok fine thf has triple war has double hell ill settle for drks having quad attack then :P lol

[Quetzacoatl]

However, the one regarding a natural double-attack just doesn't seem like a good idea. A natural DA seems to be WAR's gift and should stay that way.

Why restrict it to just WAR when even BLU gets it as a job trait set with spells? The only difference is WAR can make more use of Double Attack gear than most jobs.

[Rezeak]

Make Occult Acumen based on casting time not mp and let it effect Absorb spells as well. that way we'd get decent tp return from drains and such.

[Seoha]

If you're not giving us spells, and if so, if you really want us to cast more spells... we need a cut from the long cast times of most of our spells.

If that doesn't happen, then at least, make Occult Amen the equivalent in TP of a swing.
Because while I'm casting, I could've swung my weapon.

Occult Amen as it is... it's just a silly job trait.

[Raesvelg]

-Auto-Refresh, or an MP-gain ability, along the lines of "Your next hit will convert x% of damage dealt into MP gained."
-Adjust Souleater to deal 10% of HP as additional damage, while subtracting 10% of *MP* from the DRK using it.
-Increased Parry skill rating to give Tactical Parry some reason to exist.

I'm sure I can think of a few others, given time.

[Raesvelg]

To continue:
If you're not keen on adjusting Souleater, add a new ability that causes a persistent MP drain in return for a vastly improved attack bonus/attack rate/damage dealt.

Fundamentally the principle I'm trying to underline here is that losing HP generally makes you unpopular. Losing MP, on the other hand, isn't nearly as big a deal.

[Cream_Soda]

A new, updated "Critical Hit" weapon skill in order to keep up with the powerful Weapon Skill damage executed by Warriors and Samurai.

You are aware that sam not only has no decent critical ws, but is also pretty low tier atm, no?

[Lorax]

Fix Apocalypse!

I spent 18~ months upgrading my Apocalypse through hard work and a lot of gil, yet anyone with a week of work can get a weapon that completely outclasses it (I.E. Caladbolg or redemption), to fix this I say merely make the ODD effect a bit lower on emp or a tad higher on relics (20%?) and make the haste aftermath of Apocalypse Job ability haste instead of gear haste.

That's all the input I have for the time being, keep up the good work!

[Raesvelg]

Fix Apocalypse!

I spent 18~ months upgrading my Apocalypse through hard work and a lot of gil, yet anyone with a week of work can get a weapon that completely outclasses it (I.E. Caladbolg or redemption), to fix this I say merely make the ODD effect a bit lower on emp or a tad higher on relics (20%?) and make the haste aftermath of Apocalypse Job ability haste instead of gear haste.

That's all the input I have for the time being, keep up the good work!

Easier to just buff Relics than nerf Empyreans; people are rarely happy when nerfs get handed down, but buffs are typically greeted with a more relaxed attitude. And the easy way to buff Relics, really, would be to buff the Relic weaponskills, because for the most part they're... rather unimpressive.

Oh, and I cut down your Truffula Trees. Mah bad.

[Lorax]

Easier to just buff Relics than nerf Empyreans; people are rarely happy when nerfs get handed down, but buffs are typically greeted with a more relaxed attitude. And the easy way to buff Relics, really, would be to buff the Relic weaponskills, because for the most part they're... rather unimpressive.

Oh, and I cut down your Truffula Trees. Mah bad.

Bastard!!!

I agree with the nerf vs. buff statement, though I still feel emps are far overpowered for the amount of work you put into them. I disagree however with the buffing relic weaponskills, yes those need a buff also but it's the aftermath that is lacking in my opinion. I mean gugnir has shock spikes . . . and emp polearm has 40% ODD. Talk about wacky game balance. Or in a more relevant example, apoc gives gear haste when you can easily cap gear haste without relic now. It's just a rather meaningless aftermath now.

[Kagato]

You are aware that sam not only has no decent critical ws, but is also pretty low tier atm, no?

Missed the point completely.

[Cream_Soda]

Missed the point completely.
Well when they buff drk to be equal with sam, don't complain you didn't get what you asked for.

[Kagato]

Well when they buff drk to be equal with sam, don't complain you didn't get what you asked for.

Still missing the point completely.

[Cream_Soda]

not at all

[Kagato]

not at all

lol ok. If you say so.

[Quetzacoatl]

He means to say that if DRK is buffed enough to be as powerful as SAM, which is also suffering, then DRK will just be on par with SAM, not a WAR.

[Kagato]

The point of that request was to give DRKs a weaponskill to be proud of. What scythe weaponskill do we have to be proud of anymore? Guillotine is losing it's luster with every level.

[Cream_Soda]

Sams don't have a ws to be proud of either @.@. Fudo is quite lackluster in comparison to Ukko's, Victory, Hi, etc.

I don't know why you're using an loljob as a basis of your comparison.

[Kagato]

There. I edited it. Too much fuss over a nitpick.

[Selzak]

Something I posted a while back:


I believe the overall expectation of the job from the community is a melee damage dealer whose specialty (what it does better than any other job) is spike damage while also holding a few unique magic tricks up its sleeve. As it stands now, however, Dark Knights have fallen far behind in damage (especially spike damage) and its casting abilities are on the verge of being obsolete.

To fix this problem properly and maintain the utmost integrity with respect to the job's position in both game mechanics and lore, I would like to propose a few routes that the job could take to fall into its own niche and reestablish balance among jobs. I will do this not with the intention of having specific abilities and traits added, but simply by extending to you certain possible paths that would match the feelings and expectations associated with the job. Ideas from these paths may be extensively altered, combined, and picked apart but I believe the game's balance would benefit greatly by defining the Dark Knight along the following lines:

PATH 1: TERROR
In terms of lore, Dark Knight is a job that is expected to impose fear. In terms of game mechanics, the Dark Knight's most demanded specialty is the ability to Stun enemies. While this is a legitimate and proper role, the only method available to Dark Knight to accomplish this role is the spell, Stun. Not only is this spell not unique to Dark Knight, it is also available from sub jobs. In addition, Dark Knight does not excel at stunning, a stun from a Dark Knight is no better than any other stun. Weapon Bash, with its 5:00 recast is not noteworthy in this scheme.
What I propose, as an individual who has been a FFXI subscriber for the better part of 7 years, is that this becomes the primary role of the Dark Knight. To do this, it is important to remember that a particular role must be filled throughout the duration of a task and abilities and spells should be carefully examined with regard to recast timers. A job ability (Fear), could be used on a target to occasionally inflict the Terror status upon it. This ability could be a 3:00 recast with a 1:00 duration, and the chance of the target being Terrorized could be based on any number of appropriate dynamics. Again, though, it is important to realize that this would be a staple ability of the job, and should be effective enough to give Dark Knights a unique and demanded role in most situations. Perhaps the effectiveness of this ability could be checked against the player's attack, or the amount of overall damage being done to an enemy within a given time. A Dark Knight might use this ability in preparation for a round of elemental spells by the group's mages, and provide an effective and moderately long-lasting halt on the monster's activity to maintain control of the fight.
This route would also benefit from any spell or combination of spells that deal with stopping the monster in its tracks. The single spell, Stun, is not quite enough.

PATH 2: BIG NUMBERS
Most people play Dark Knight expecting to deal large amounts of damage. In contrast to jobs like Monk, which deal huge amounts of damage over time, Dark Knights have been supposed to put out huge amounts of spike damage. There are a few nuances, of which I'm sure the development team is already aware of, that are keeping Dark Knights from realizing this role and I won't go into those. What I will address, however, is what seems to be the most overlooked and blatantly broken ability in the game; Souleater. This is obviously the Dark Knight's defining ability, but it is plainly impractical to utilize within the game's mechanics. Perhaps an ability like the one proposed above (Fear) might allow the player to use Souleater while keeping the monster Terrorized throughout the majority of its allotted activity. Another thing to consider would be a simple job trait (again, working on the lore of an imposing and feared Dark Knight) that reduces the enemies desire (or enmity) towards the Dark Knight either overall, or when the player inflicts large amounts of damage. Maybe this trait could activate when the Dark Knight deals a large amount of damage in a short amount of time, and cause the enemy to lose all enmity on the Dark Knight.

PATH 3: WORTHWHILE MELEE
It seems very wrong that the Dark Knight job can not be considered a serious melee threat. That jobs like Ninja or even Dancer can be considered more capable of melee damage is extremely unfair to Dark Knights and entirely unbalanced. There are so many opportunities to fix this that it seems like a waste of time to offer suggestions, but one problem that is very apparent most players is the inadequacy of the Last Resort ability. This ability should be at least on par with the Warrior ability Berserk, and offer Dark Knight's a longer buff than what it currently allows. The downtime on Last Resort (recast - duration) should be *much* shorter, and a duration of 1:30 or 2:00 seems a lot more reasonable than what it currently is.

Be careful with the Terror JA description. It's more like an aura that could create the possibility of a "stagger" or terrorized effect. Not a straight up Terror every few minutes.

[Rambus]

-The Dark Knight Adjustment and Suggestion Topic-

An adjustment to "Guillotine" since it's damage output is lower than most Weapon Skills used by other jobs now.
Source: Seoha - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/289-Unlike-Cecil-I-ll-forever-be-a-Dark-Knight-!/page2

An effect of Stun, Amnesia, Slow, Paralyze, or any sort of attack-hindering status effect against an enemy added to a Weapon Skill for Scythe or Great Sword.
Source: Gamiina - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/289-Unlike-Cecil-I-ll-forever-be-a-Dark-Knight-!
[/LIST]

Miscellaneous
(Nothing yet)


*****Everything on this list is subject to change and will constantly be updated!*****



Why not buff Insurgency as well if you are interested in buffing Guillotine?

could make insurgency a crt hit ws.

[Seoha]

Fix Apocalypse!

I spent 18~ months upgrading my Apocalypse through hard work and a lot of gil, yet anyone with a week of work can get a weapon that completely outclasses it (I.E. Caladbolg or redemption), to fix this I say merely make the ODD effect a bit lower on emp or a tad higher on relics (20%?) and make the haste aftermath of Apocalypse Job ability haste instead of gear haste.

That's all the input I have for the time being, keep up the good work!

This isn't a fix for DRK, not everyone has an Apocalypse.
With relic or not, a DRK still needs to be strong (i.e. Raenryong from bahamut comes to mind, at 75, pre abyssea. Zicdeh and Gradd also comes to mind). It's not the case right now

As stated before, they should just buff Relic Weapons in general, and that has nothing to do with the thread right now.


Sams don't have a ws to be proud of either @.@. Fudo is quite lackluster in comparison to Ukko's, Victory, Hi, etc.

I don't know why you're using an loljob as a basis of your comparison.

Fudo is lackluster, but it's no ordinary weak WS either.
I've seen big numbers. Maybe not as often, but still big numbers (Toxicity from Lakshmi).
It's also very easy to gear in comparassion to Torcleaver.

I would be more than happy if Torcleaver had an gear-around-ATK instead of silly VIT mod.

But still, I understand your point Cream_Soda.

[Rezeak]

I would be more than happy if Torcleaver had an gear-around-ATK instead of silly VIT mod.


Well Torcleaver doesn't have an attack bonus like spinning slash so it does benefit the WS alot to capp out attack first.
Even with the so-so mod Torcleaver does have a higher ftp mod than fudo which more than makes up for having lol VIT mod.

[Seoha]

Indeed, point is however, it's not a WS you can go full STR like.. say, Drakesbane.
My basic Torcleaver gear is all around ATK indeed, and the only pieces of VIT I can use are there together with MORE atk (Twilight Helm, Shadow Breastplate and so on).

Still, all in all, torcleaver damage for me is very jumpy.
but I think that ther eason why my torcleaver is jumpy it's because I'm not properly geared, really nothign to do with DRK in general.

[Selzak]

I'm cross-posting this because I spent way too much time on it:

****************************************************************
01 Doppelganger - Summons forth a shadow of the Dark Knight's darkened soul. Duration 1 min 30 seconds. Recast: 120 min.
[This would just be a shadow NPC named Darkened Soul (Player) that is equal to the player's current level.]

30 Blood Weapon - A portion of each of the user's attacks drains HP from the enemy. Duration 30 seconds. Recast: 5 min.
[This is just a 30 second, very powerful personal Drain Samba intended to stack with Souleater to make it more usable. Perhaps it would drain 10% of the attack.]

15 Last Resort - Increases user's attack while lowering defense.
Recast: 5 min. Duration 1 min 20 seconds.


================================================================
55 Insidiousness - Reduces an enemy's attack speed and casting speed while in front of the target. Spell interruption rate is greatly reduced. Grants the user a Refresh effect. Max HP is reduced.
Also grants access to Darkness: Submit. Recast: 2 min. Duration 5 min.
[This is a team survival and defense-oriented stance. It slows the enemy's actions, gives you access to the support-type Darkness spells, and grants a 3-4 MP/tic Refresh for the casting and support focus.]

70 Malevolence - Increases Critical Hit Rate, Weapon Skill Damage, and TP generation while striking the target from behind. Max MP is reduced.
Also grants access to Darkness: Channel. Recast: 2 min. Duration 5 min.
[This is a melee and offense-oriented stance. The Dark Knight becomes more malevolent; scoring more critical hits, producing impressive spike damage (this is where we should be able to call ourselves a top-tier DD. In this stance, a Dark Knight should be able to [I]spike the highest of any melee DD), and using weapon skills more frequently. Instead of messing with casting, toss in a 2-3 TP/tic regain.]
================================================================
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
55 Darkness: Submit - Displays abilities and spells available when using Insidiousness.

Job Abilities
Level Name

55 Elemental Aftermath - Enhances your next Elemental Magic spell to inflict a negative status based on its elemental properties. Status effect potency is increased based spell potency. Recast: 1 min 45 seconds. Duration 30 seconds.
[EX: Blizzard = Weak Paralyze Effect / Blizzard II = Moderate Paralyze Effect / Blizzard III = Strong Paralyze Effect. -Like it]

76 Impose - Drains the Dark Knight's TP while occasionally striking the enemy with fear. Recast: 5 min. Duration 2 min 30 seconds.
[Drains TP at something low like 1-2 TP/tic and may occasionally strike the enemy with a fear effect (terrorize) that scales steeply with level check. At level 76 this may last 4-5 seconds on a rabbit in W.Ron, 1-2 seconds on an EM-IT, and a split second on tougher foes. If all TP is consumed the ability remains in effect, but fear can only proc when TP is consumed.]

+ [Give us access to a few more support spells under this ability. Blind comes to mind. This would also be a good way to maintain balance with DRK's casting abilities: Break may only be made available in this mode. Same with Dread Spikes.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
70 Darkness: Channel - Displays abilities and spells available when using Malevolence.

Job Abilities
Level Name

70 Deathblow - Guarantees a critical hit on your next weaponskill. Recast: 3 min. Duration 1 minute.

+ [As with the other stance, things may be readjusted for balance. Endark may be restricted to this mode, for example. Perhaps Abs-TP could be restored to its original power and placed here.]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

40 Abyssal Strike - Delivers a ranged attack to the target. Additional effect: stun. Recast: 2 min 30 seconds. Duration Instant.
[A Dark Knight "Chi Blast" that does crap damage but provides a moving ranged attack and stun. We've needed another stun to fit into our role (if we even have one now).]


Job Traits
Level Name

50 Magic Attack Bonus I - Grants a bonus of 10 magic attack.

85 Terrorist - Grants a chance to intimidate an aggressive enemy into skipping an attack when current HP is less than 25%.

80 Magic Attack Bonus II - Grants an additional bonus of 10 magic attack.


Combat Skills:
Great Sword A
Parrying C-
[I'd leave the rest of our skills alone.]


Spell List
Level Name

70 Endark [Could be restricted to offensive stance.]

80 Bleed - Gradually steals an enemies HP. Spell element: Dark. Spell cost: 34 MP. Recast: 2 min 30 seconds. Duration 1 min 15 seconds.

85 Restitution - Transfer a detrimental magical effect to target enemy. Spell element: Dark. Spell cost: 36 MP. Recast: 2 min

80 Bio III

95 Break [Yeah I think we're already getting this. Like I said further up, though- this could fit well in a specific spell list. Especially if it means the difference between being useless or actually situationally effective.]


Original Topic:
Another cry for help thread, but with a lot of junk to read! (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/612-Another-cry-for-help-thread-but-with-a-lot-of-junk-to-read)

[Kagato]

I'll be honest with you. I'm not a fan of many of those. I will say, however, that I like Bio III and for us to have some kind of Terrorize effect.

Also, I like the ability for an instant critical hit, but I'd much rather have a Weaponskill that does that automatically.

[Kiba]

Selzak, I really like the list you compiled of possible abilities/spells to implement. If some are considered it would definitely bring a lot of fun to the job. Couple of ideas I want to throw out to contribute to the thread:
1) Similar to Samurais having Seigan & Hasso, Warrior's having Berserk & Aggressor. I'd like to see dark knights having modes per say to turn offensive and defense. The modes to not only improve DRK's damage performance, but enhance effectiveness of abilities and spells already in place.
2) May be wild and suicidal but I'd like to see something similar done with MNK's merit 2 mantra HP boosts. Instead for DRK to be able to take Souleater to the next level. That is consuming party members in area health to enhance damage. Of course the downside of this will be if not used properly the DRK can cause the wipe of his party, but the way I see it is is the nature of the job and fits very well. For the safe side though if something like this is implemented I would add in a command which the DRK can send to his party members
"Name would like permission to use the ability ____, do you agree"?
If agreed they will be subject to the effect while others who click no will not be affected. Another application would be instead of HP consumption of party members maybe consume attack of party members in area for a short period of time.

Sorry for my nonsense. Really hoping some new stuff for DRK come on the way as it was my first job I leveled to 75 :)

[Kagato]

Thats the thing, Kiba. We actually do have modes to be aggressive and defensive. It's just our options are seriously lacking. Last Resort is too short and Souleater is no good anymore without Blood Weapon. Our only defensive option is Dread Spikes. Everything else we need is subjob-reliant, like Utsusemi Shadows or Third Eye. That's one of our biggest problems.

As for the 2nd part, I think thats unnecessary. Remember, we don't want anything to be completely complex. The changes we need are simple adjustments to the skills we already do have as well as the inclusion of new spells to aid us in killing the monster or protecting ourselves. Also, a new weaponskill that isn't weaker than everyone else's would be nice, but we just need our skills to be fixed so they can be used more often and we can reclaim our spot as the #1 spike damage class in the game.

A single swing from us should be just as strong or stronger as another job swinging their weapon 2-3 times.

[Selzak]

Thats the thing, Kiba. We actually do have modes to be aggressive and defensive. It's just our options are seriously lacking. Last Resort is too short and Souleater is no good anymore without Blood Weapon. Our only defensive option is Dread Spikes. Everything else we need is subjob-reliant, like Utsusemi Shadows or Third Eye. That's one of our biggest problems.

As for the 2nd part, I think thats unnecessary. Remember, we don't want anything to be completely complex. The changes we need are simple adjustments to the skills we already do have as well as the inclusion of new spells to aid us in killing the monster or protecting ourselves. Also, a new weaponskill that isn't weaker than everyone else's would be nice, but we just need our skills to be fixed so they can be used more often and we can reclaim our spot as the #1 spike damage class in the game.

A single swing from us should be just as strong or stronger as another job swinging their weapon 2-3 times.

Last Resort and Souleater are not offensive "modes" at all, they're just buffs. I think trade-offs like Seigan/Hasso, Addendum: White/Black, Yonnin/Innin, etc. are really the way to go for DRK because it is a complicated job whether we like it or not. It grew awkward and never fell into a niche, so we have to divide it into the roles that it should fill. Personally, I envision DRK as a job that deals big spike damage (looks pretty, won't out DD a MNK on parse) and controls the flow of battle with stuns and unique debuffs.

DRK isn't broken because it doesn't do more damage than everything else, it's broken because it doesn't do anything.

[Jar]

This thread is a Joke Most of the things you a talking about would make drk very overpowered.. when in fact DRK is hardly behind any other DD in the game.

If all you want are new things I'm sure that SE will deliver just nothing as broken as what you have all posted.

Also So what if our 2hour isn't huge anymore it is just as strong as most the other lackluster 2 hours out there.

[Cream_Soda]

when in fact DRK is hardly behind any other DD in the game.

Entertainment :D

[Seoha]

When in fact DRK is hardly behind any other DD in the game.


Thanks for the laugh.
What are your main jobs again?

[Kagato]

This thread is a Joke Most of the things you a talking about would make drk very overpowered.. when in fact DRK is hardly behind any other DD in the game.

An Apocalypse DRK with capped haste and a BRD or COR buddy would make it on par or better than other DDs in this game, but as far as a DRK by himself, almost every other main DD job wins. Especially MNK. As far as damage output goes, we're low on the spectrum simply because of the fact our job abilities are weaker than other DD jobs.

But hey, don't listen to me. Go ahead and continue to think we're on par with other DD jobs. Thats why we're so common and sought-after in endgame and abyssea events!

Oh, wait....

Pop Quiz: When is the last time you have ever seen someone seek out a Dark Knight for help over a Warrior, Monk or Samurai? Or for that matter, a Ranger, Dragoon or Thief?

[Cream_Soda]

Pop Quiz: When is the last time you have ever seen someone seek out a Dark Knight for help over a Warrior, Monk or Samurai?

If someone told me they had drk and sam as their only DD jobs, I'd just tell them to come the one that is geared better.

I don't know why you keep throwing sam in the mix to make your point.

yes, drk is weaker than mnk war etc., but sam is loltier right now. It's not a good way to make your point.

[Kagato]

I keep throwing "lolSAM" in because MNK, WAR and SAM are the only DD jobs anyone ever wants in events on my server. If you're not a MNK, WAR or SAM (or have no other mage or support class) then GTFO.

You constantly nitpick about my mentioning of Samurai. Well, guess what? They're everwhere and they are still getting severe spotlight where I come from. Far more than any DRK or DRG at least.

[Cream_Soda]

Your server is far behind the times.

Thf is infinitely more useful than sam. I'd complain about them before I would about sam.

I'm talking from an actual usefulness perspective, which is where war and mnk come in your part of the post. Sam, I don't really care how people perceive it, because it's a crap job. So whether or not people like them on your server, they're still not high and mighty over drk in terms of actual DD ability.

Edit: Can't believe I forgot about nin.

Also miles ahead of sam.

[Kagato]

Regardless of the stance on Samurai, it does not change my point at all. This is not a freaking Samurai good/bad topic.

[Cream_Soda]

Regardless of the stance on Samurai, it does not change my point at all. This is not a freaking Samurai good/bad topic.
It is a forum, however and while you're entitled to your opinion, I am to mine. So as long as sam is mentioned, I will be commenting on it.

If sam were not mentioned, I would not comment on it.

Period.

Don't bring something into the thread you don't want discussed.

[Kagato]

All hail the SAM police. :/

[Madvin]

A good way to fix DRK would be giving them full break, mistral axe, swift blade. 11/15 slashing wouldn't be too shabby, but still behind MNK obviously. Also I'm just using rampage at the moment, works great, but I kinda wish there were an easy-to-get (read: not based on drop rates >_<) viable offhand option to use. Let DRK's use the magian axes? :)

[Cruentus]

Having a dark knight use an axe more would be stupid. We have an A+ skill with a scythe, and an A- skill with a great sword. Those should be the weapons we use 95% of the time, not axes or swords.

I'd love to know where the "lolJOB" and "loltier" expressions come from. I don't see what's so funny about dark knights not being on par with samurai, dragoon, and whatever else. It's downright sickening to me.

[Selzak]

This thread is a Joke Most of the things you a talking about would make drk very overpowered.. when in fact DRK is hardly behind any other DD in the game.

If all you want are new things I'm sure that SE will deliver just nothing as broken as what you have all posted.

Also So what if our 2hour isn't huge anymore it is just as strong as most the other lackluster 2 hours out there.
I don't think anyone is saying, "Do all of these things to fix DRK!"
It's more like, "These are some things that might help to fix DRK."

Pulling a couple of ideas and playing around with them, then applying them in a balanced form is what we should hope for SE to do.


An Apocalypse DRK with capped haste and a BRD or COR buddy would make it on par or better than other DDs in this game
Maybe in 2007. The haste from Catastrophe doesn't give DRK an edge anymore. This was actually the first blow to DRK, it lowered our potential before RR even got popular.

[Panthera]

So far, Dark Knight seems to be able to absorb just about everything, so with that in mind..

Absorb-Evasion
Absorb-Defense
Absorb-Attack

SE got a start on this series with Aborb-ACC, and I'm surprised they haven't followed it up since they increased the level caps, but it's not too late!

[Taint]

A top tier DRK sat on top of the DD world for a couple years. The 80% delay nerf hurt DRK a ton, then the SE/Kclub nerf finished the job off from a damage point of view. Then DRK became a great HNM tank, esp on stunable mobs like Tiamat and Cerberus, only to have spot taken away with the introduction of Abyssea. What DRK needs is a defining trait or stance as mentioned above. SE also has to stop treating DRK like a mage. In the DD world you will get crushed on a parse casting anything at all. EnDRK,Spikes,Abs are all solid ideas but are not worth the loss of multiple swings to cast.

-DRK exclusive spells should be a 1 second cast, like stun.
-DRK needs a multihit crit WS, change Insurgency to Crit or something
-DRK needs a stance like Hasso/Seigan and not have to rely on a SJ for its good JAs
-LR needs to last 3min

Relics in general need a major ODD boost. 90 Cata can keep up damage wise with Torcleavor but factor in the ODD of an Emp and its no contest.

CS - DRK is the bottom DD atm, SAM destroys it in Abyssea (esp Fudo SAMs vs Relic DRKs) and SAM gets destroyed by WAR,MNK,NIN to put it in perspective of where DRK stands atm. Take the game back outside of Abyssea and SAM is near the top again and DRK remains at the bottom.

[Ayasha]

I think a lot of people are missing the point of DRK completely when 'suggesting' new ideas. DRK DOESN'T need a critical WS because bro-awesome WS damage isn't really part of DRK repertoire to begin with. Disabling, draining, and consistent spike melee damage are the key skills of DRK. If any WS needs to be modified, the skill modifiers need to be brought to the jobs core stats: STR and INT. The only WS worth using (put lightly) that uses those stats is Insurgency, and we all know SE missed the mark by orders of time zones on that one. To be honest, my main problem with DRK is its reliance on its support job to define the play style. Granted, ALL jobs suffer from that, but most of them have their own inherent job traits to make up for deficiencies; whereas with DRK, you have to change style out of sheer necessity. DRK/NIN adds to survivability, but you severely reduce your ability to do pretty much anything useful. DRK/THF is useful every 30 seconds or every 100% TP, whichever takes longer. DRK/SAM is great for DD, but seigan/3eye is too inconsistent to rely on for the oh sh** moments, not to mention the severe cast/recast penalty received from Seigan/Hasso (yeah yeah cancel buffs blah blah).

All this, as you internet people say, "too long, didn't read" in summary is to give DRK a more independent state. Abyssea gave people a false idea of what this game is about, and how it's supposed to be played. The last thing we want is for DRK to just be another bandwagon job like MNK is, and SAM used to be.

[jpn2k]

I feel that Square-Enix really missed the mark on a lot of aspects of DRK. It started out (low levels) as a job that has highest attack; and in order to keep the balance, low defense. But at higher levels, Square-Enix modified it to emphasize more on magic. It makes gearing a lot more complex compared to other straight melee damage dealers. Spending time casting also slows down TP generation, which defeats the purpose of having the highest physical attack. All the magic options also make timing critical for DRKs.

Souleater is an awesome ability, but can't be used all the time since it requires cure. On top of that, Square-Enix keep adding HP- abilities, which not only reduce the effectiveness of Souleater, but it also decreases survivability. A lot of DRKs want high damage (which makes sense since DRKs have the lowest defense), but in doing so would kill the DRK even faster due to the enmity generation. The use of Bloodweapon is so limited that I don't even know where to begin. With these in mind, I would like to make the following suggestions:

Higher attack/STR base stats to compensate for the slow TP generation (think of fighting undead monsters outside of Abyssea).

A Darkness-based magic attack (similar to PLD and WHM's Holy, but of the opposing element).

Addition of Bio III.

Add more defensive abilities and reduce the casting time of Dread Spikes to match that of PLD's Reprisal.

Increase the effectiveness of Absorb spells, possibly adding Absorb-Attack/Defense, etc.

Some way to balance the effectiveness of Souleater and all the -HP gear and job abilities.

Adjust Souleater so that its more useful without cure spam. Possibly making Blood Weapon or a lesser version of it to pair with the use of Souleater.

Lengthen the duration of last resort and decrease its enmity generation.

Some way to temporarily reduce enmity generation.

More magic to debuff the monsters, such as plague, paralyze, and short-duration terror.

[Taint]

I feel that Square-Enix really missed the mark on a lot of aspects of DRK. It started out (low levels) as a job that has highest attack; and in order to keep the balance, low defense. But at higher levels, Square-Enix modified it to emphasize more on magic. It makes gearing a lot more complex compared to other straight melee damage dealers. Spending time casting also slows down TP generation, which defeats the purpose of having the highest physical attack. All the magic options also make timing critical for DRKs.

Souleater is an awesome ability, but can't be used all the time since it requires cure. On top of that, Square-Enix keep adding HP- abilities, which not only reduce the effectiveness of Souleater, but it also decreases survivability. A lot of DRKs want high damage (which makes sense since DRKs have the lowest defense), but in doing so would kill the DRK even faster due to the enmity generation. The use of Bloodweapon is so limited that I don't even know where to begin. With these in mind, I would like to make the following suggestions:

Higher attack/STR base stats to compensate for the slow TP generation (think of fighting undead monsters outside of Abyssea).

A Darkness-based magic attack (similar to PLD and WHM's Holy, but of the opposing element).

Addition of Bio III.

Add more defensive abilities and reduce the casting time of Dread Spikes to match that of PLD's Reprisal.

Increase the effectiveness of Absorb spells, possibly adding Absorb-Attack/Defense, etc.

Some way to balance the effectiveness of Souleater and all the -HP gear and job abilities.

Adjust Souleater so that its more useful without cure spam. Possibly making Blood Weapon or a lesser version of it to pair with the use of Souleater.

Lengthen the duration of last resort and decrease its enmity generation.

Some way to temporarily reduce enmity generation.

More magic to debuff the monsters, such as plague, paralyze, and short-duration terror.

I disagree with a lot of this post.
Enmity generation is one of the few things DRK has going for it. I'd rather have increased enmity then reduced. DRK has access to very good -pdt and -mdt gear and for a good while there was a top tier tank job. Also we need to get away from casting. DRK will never be on Par with backline jobs for magic damage or debuffs. DRKs job is to do damage, if it changes to debuffing or nuking then it will further kill the job since it won't be on par with existing jobs with that purpose. Also the last thing DRK needs is more att or STR, what it needs is an increase in hit rate, crit rate and WS rate. Att and STR are easily obtained already for DRKs.

[Vitrum]

I find it hilarious that the empy+2 set bonus gives a damage bonus based on our current HP%, and yet our 'staple' ability, souleater, spends HP at a % to deal bonus damage.

As far as a suggestion goes, I think they should reevaluate either the set bonus or souleater. (Preferably souleater)

[brayen]

Not going to get too much into this thread but from all the things i have read in this thread the only things i liked the most are:
increased last resort duration and a double atk trait

I will only add that DRK is severely lacking in WS dmg and its full spell list is as close to worthless as it can get(stun and maybe endark are the only good ones)

I feel drk is a relatively weak job at the moment due to the nature of abyssea, however any few minor tweaks can easily bring it back to a good job, and there are a number of ways to produce. The above sentence on its lacking WS being its biggest problem at the moment i think.

[Zicdeh]

Most people I see are just suggesting lifting other jobs traits or abilities, essentially making it a Warrior that wears spikey armor.

Personally, I prefer new, but distinctly DRK-themed fixes, just off the top of my head, DRK could use battle stances like so many other melee jobs have (Counterstance, Hasso, Seigan, Defender, etc)

Malevolence; The presence of the Dark Knight terrifies and Demoralizes his foes.
Effect: When positioned "In front" (Similar to the Breath-range arc) The enemy suffers a penalty to Attack Speed, Casting Speed and Magic Evasion.

Insidiousness; The Dark Knight's insidious nature lets him hone in on a targets' vitals, and deliver devastating blows.
Effect: When flanking a target (outside "Breath" range), the Dark Knight ignores a portion of the target's Defense, and evasion. Weapon Skill damage is also increased.

[solidous]

I think these changes and additional will could help fix dark. It is not fair that we get a watered down version of other jobs abilities.

Blood Weapon
Level 51 Job Ability
Duration: 30 seconds
Recast: 15 minutes
When active, all standard melee attacks will cause an Additional Effect that converts the damage inflicted into a "Drain" effect, healing the Dark Knight by 100% of the amount of damage inflicted.


Last Resort
Level 15 Job ability
Duration: 2 minutes
Recast: 5 minutes
Increases the users attack by 14.84375% and defense is decreased by the same amount.
(Desperate Blows should be adjusted to 3% delay reduction per merit.)



Dark Eternall
Level 1 Job Ability
Duration: 30 seconds
Recast: 2 hours
User gains a 20% boost to attack and magic attack bonus. Drain Spikes effect gained.
If user is defeated while Death Eternal is active, the user remains attacking through out the remainder of the Death Eternal's duration, attack and magic attack bonus gain an additional 10% boost.

Job Trait

Quick Cast
Level 95 Job Trait
Duration: Always active
User has a chance to instantly cast selected spell.
Chance of Quick cast activating is 5%
I do not think this would not be broken as you lose a hit or 2 if it doesn't proc.

Imbibe
level 70 Job Trait
Duration: Always active
Absorbs a single status bonus from and enemy.
Chance of absorbing status bonus is 5%

New Job abilities

Dark Masochist (or Truculence I doubt SE will find masochist suitable for the game)
Level 76 Job Ability
Duration: 2 minutes
Recast: 10 minutes
User gains regain effect of 5 TP per tic at the cost of 30 HP.

Dark Mirror
Level 55 Job Ability
Duration: 5 seconds
Recast: 1 minutes.
While ability is active damage received by the user will be recorded. limit of damage recorded varies by player level.

Riposte
Level 55 Job Ability
Duration: Instant
Recast:1 minute
Damage recorded by Dark Mirror with be dealt two fold to current battle target.

[Seoha]

Most people I see are just suggesting lifting other jobs traits or abilities, essentially making it a Warrior that wears spikey armor.

Personally, I prefer new, but distinctly DRK-themed fixes, just off the top of my head, DRK could use battle stances like so many other melee jobs have (Counterstance, Hasso, Seigan, Defender, etc)

Malevolence; The presence of the Dark Knight terrifies and Demoralizes his foes.
Effect: When positioned "In front" (Similar to the Breath-range arc) The enemy suffers a penalty to Attack Speed, Casting Speed and Magic Evasion.

Insidiousness; The Dark Knight's insidious nature lets him hone in on a targets' vitals, and deliver devastating blows.
Effect: When flanking a target (outside "Breath" range), the Dark Knight ignores a portion of the target's Defense, and evasion. Weapon Skill damage is also increased.

Actually those are pretty damn neat suggestions!

[Zeroe]

Interesting, I'll have to put a few ideas in myself once I learn this class more

[Selzak]

Most people I see are just suggesting lifting other jobs traits or abilities, essentially making it a Warrior that wears spikey armor.

Personally, I prefer new, but distinctly DRK-themed fixes, just off the top of my head, DRK could use battle stances like so many other melee jobs have (Counterstance, Hasso, Seigan, Defender, etc)

Malevolence; The presence of the Dark Knight terrifies and Demoralizes his foes.
Effect: When positioned "In front" (Similar to the Breath-range arc) The enemy suffers a penalty to Attack Speed, Casting Speed and Magic Evasion.

Insidiousness; The Dark Knight's insidious nature lets him hone in on a targets' vitals, and deliver devastating blows.
Effect: When flanking a target (outside "Breath" range), the Dark Knight ignores a portion of the target's Defense, and evasion. Weapon Skill damage is also increased.

What do you think of this (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/729-The-official-Dark-Knight-adjustment-and-suggestion-topic.?p=7687&viewfull=1#post7687) interpretation of the stances?

[Renromix]

would be nice if drk can cast tierIV spells like rdm has. drk is an attacker not the ws master so if it can cast tierIV maybe it will make difference not just auto attackin and ppl can choose to nuke in abyssea, drk has blackmagic spells so why not use it? if this possible that drk can cast tierIV it will be enjoyable to play drk again drk has B elemental skill.

[Jar]

Still the Vast majority of what you are all posting would beyond overpower the job.

[Quetzacoatl]

would be nice if drk can cast tierIV spells like rdm has. drk is an attacker not the ws master so if it can cast tierIV maybe it will make difference not just auto attackin and ppl can choose to nuke in abyssea, drk has blackmagic spells so why not use it? if this possible that drk can cast tierIV it will be enjoyable to play drk again drk has B elemental skill.

Our casting speed generally doesn't make it worth using, not to mention we have limited MAB and INT options on top of our selection of nukes. Dark Knight is best at Dark Magic, leave the nuking to the BLMs.


What do you think of this (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/729-The-official-Dark-Knight-adjustment-and-suggestion-topic.?p=7687&viewfull=1#post7687) interpretation of the stances?

I'm more inclined towards Zicdeh's version. Making the attack stance behind the mob would make it too much like NIN's Innin ability, and it would create clutter for other DD like THFs and NINs (though rarely NINs) trying to attack from behind. Making it out of breath range frees up the space used by the DD.

This will also sound nitpicky, but the names for them sound like they need to be switched around, too. Insidiousness, which means the intent of working or spreading harmfully in a subtle or stealthy manner, sounds more fitting to an attacker DRK who is looking to bring some major pain to the table without bringing a lot of attention. Also, malevolence means showing an evil influence, something that could intimidate an opponent when encountered on the battlefield head-on.

For the Attack Stance, Crit Hits can be boosted by using Razed Ruins atma in Abyssea, but Ignoring Defense/Evasion when the enemy's not looking at you could be something a DRK could specialize freely in. How often do we come by an ability that's useful and Ignores those stats? Not too often. Though, with the introduction of the Twilight Scythe and its Neutral Damage Type...hmmm. Can't say anything about that one. At least not until Zicdeh pitches in on it.

[FioryGriever]

I'm a rather controversial player, I made a name for myself on Caitsith for MNK/DRG + Footwork build and then DRK/SCH when most wouldn't dare leave /SAM or /NIN. /SCH has been a fun SJ and very useful one @ that. The biggest issue I've seen players talk about is "our magic isn't worth casting because it takes too long to cast" thus decreasing DoT.. which is largely a product for some ppl of /SAM JA (ya i know some people juggle them by removing then casting but its a hassel and imo ruins the fluidity of DRK). SE wanted us to head in the direction of using more magic and /SCH seems to favor this heavily w/ all the Stratagems etc. to enh. our casting. Occult Acumen could use some work on the dark magic side, someone suggested Dark Celerity as a JT (awesome), Spirit Eater would be nice (shared timer w/ SE but uses mp), make drain and aspir spells deal darkness based dmg that converts the dmg dealt into hp/mp (itd still deal dmg to undead but wouldnt take effect) Combat Casting JT, ungimp abs-tp /angryface, Nether Void was a great addition, Blood Weapon needs to be looked @... those would address some of the issues people have w/ magic etc. but /SCH takes heavy advantage of very fast casting esp. for dread spikes but ill leave that alone lol ill get flames enough for just saying DRK/SCH <.<

[Cruentus]

I'm a rather controversial player, I made a name for myself on Caitsith for MNK/DRG + Footwork build and then DRK/SCH when most wouldn't dare leave /SAM or /NIN. /SCH has been a fun SJ and very useful one @ that. The biggest issue I've seen players talk about is "our magic isn't worth casting because it takes too long to cast" thus decreasing DoT.. which is largely a product for some ppl of /SAM JA (ya i know some people juggle them by removing then casting but its a hassel and imo ruins the fluidity of DRK). SE wanted us to head in the direction of using more magic and /SCH seems to favor this heavily w/ all the Stratagems etc. to enh. our casting. Occult Acumen could use some work on the dark magic side, someone suggested Dark Celerity as a JT (awesome), Spirit Eater would be nice (shared timer w/ SE but uses mp), make drain and aspir spells deal darkness based dmg that converts the dmg dealt into hp/mp (itd still deal dmg to undead but wouldnt take effect) Combat Casting JT, ungimp abs-tp /angryface, Nether Void was a great addition, Blood Weapon needs to be looked @... those would address some of the issues people have w/ magic etc. but /SCH takes heavy advantage of very fast casting esp. for dread spikes but ill leave that alone lol ill get flames enough for just saying DRK/SCH <.<

I actually kind of like the idea of DRK/SCH, but at the same time, we need to be able to do massive melee damage in a very short amount of time, and /SCH does not help with that. Originally, I was going to make DRK/RDM my main, but then I learned how the game actually worked.

I remember reading about a job ability to inflict Terror on these forums somewhere, and I liked that idea. My suggestion was Bonecrusher (sacrifice HP to kill an enemy instantly), which I posted on another thread. It makes sense, since we're dark knights, to get a job ability like this, especially when summoners got Odin. Now, I get to list the rest of my ideas.

Bonecrusher
Level 86 Job Ability
Duration: Instant
Recast: 10 minutes
Sacrifice 1/3 of max. HP to instantly kill an enemy. Does not work on notorious monsters of any sort, unless the monster's level is at least 40 below yours (i.e., level 90 DRK using Bonecrusher on level 50 or lower NM works).

Summoners got Odin at level 75, and while that requires their two-hour ability Astral Flow, it also deals death in an area of effect. This job ability kills one monster, takes HP to do it (thus fitting the dark knight's theme), and should be a job ability we had before summoners got Odin anyway. I mean, come on, the dark knight is supposed to be the foreboding, intimidating guy in your party that kills things quickly, sacrificing even his/her own life to do it. We deserve a job ability like this.

Eye for an Eye
Level 55 Job Trait
I took this from Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light and its Dark Fencer crown. It increases attack damage as your HP goes down. This would give us a new reason to use Souleater without Blood Weapon, and later, to spam Bonecrusher.

Duskblade
Level 60 Job Ability
Duration: Instant
Recast: 5 minutes
This would be a physical, darkness-elemental attack that does nothing but damage against an undead foe, but against anything else, saps their HP and MP like Drain and Aspir would, just in lesser amounts. It would also ignore the foe's resistance to the darkness element.

Crushing Blow
Level 75 Job Ability
Duration: Instant
Recast: 6 minutes
This would deal a physical attack that's only half as powerful as a regular attack, but it also inflicts Terror 100% of the time. The Terror effect would last anywhere from five seconds to a minute, depending on several dynamics.

Black Sky
Level 99 Dark Magic
Casting Time: 20 seconds
Recast: 2 minutes
MP Cost: 80
Element: Dark
This would be similar to the Meteor spell seen in many Final Fantasy games, but it was taken specifically from Final Fantasy X-2. This deals non-elemental magic damage in ten to fifteen shots to the target monster and everything around it, with a range about equal to that of a spell like Firaga IV. Damage would be directly proportional to the user's dark magic skill, and would not take the target monster's natural magical resistance into effect, though it would count things like a Shell effect on the target. It would not ignore magical defense for the monsters around the target monster; they'd be hit due to just being too close, like if some random Goblin wandered into your Blizzaga III spell's range as you were casting. It runs the risk of extra aggro, and the high MP cost prevents it from being spammed, but imagine something like this against something like Promathia or Shinryu.

Charon
Level 99 Job Ability
Duration: Instant
Recast: 1 minute
The user dies without losing EXP to deal massive darkness-elemental damage to the enemy. I know it sounds like Mijin Gakure, but this damage can't be resisted or reduced in any way, is directly proportional to how much HP you had when you used it (more HP means more damage), and as a result of how it works, it should discourage spamming. I took this one from Final Fantasy X-2, also.

Amok
Scythe Weapon Skill
Scythe Skill: 420
Skillchain Properties: Gravitation/Impaction
Stat Modifiers: STR 40% and INT 40%
Another ability taken from Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light, this is a five-hit weapon skill that will deal critical damage with the final hit every time, assuming all five strikes land. It's only available to dark knights, even if other jobs can get the required skill with a scythe. If it's used while the user is wearing full bale armor, the user gains an Aftermath effect that lowers casting time for dark magic, depending on how far along the armor is upgraded and how much TP is put into the weapon skill. For best results, someone wearing a full bale armor +2 set that put 300% TP into Amok would enjoy three minutes of dark magic at half the casting time. This would scale down for people who aren't that far along yet. I think a table would help, so here.


100%-199% TP: 45 seconds of Aftermath
200%-299% TP: 90 seconds of Aftermath
300% TP: 155 seconds of Aftermath
Each piece of bale armor worn adds 2 seconds to the Aftermath effect's duration.
Each piece of bale armor +1 worn adds 3 seconds to the Aftermath effect's duration.
Each piece of bale armor +2 worn adds 5 seconds to the Aftermath effect's duration.
The Aftermath effect will not activate unless at least one piece of bale armor is worn when the weapon skill is used.


Before people shun this idea, consider how easy it is to get any job's empyrean armor. Upgrading it is the hard part. And I believe we're all pretty darn certain that a dark knight's scythe skill can hit 420 by level 99 pretty easily.

Those are all of my ideas. I hope I did something right. Extending the duration of Blood Weapon and Last Resort were great ideas, and a job trait that makes casting times for dark magic go down was a good one as well. I concentrated mostly on the "deal massive damage, even if it means your life" theme, since that's what a dark knight should be doing in my opinion. That's how the job's worked in every other game, anyway.

[Taint]

Please stop suggesting Tier4 magic and other casting Abilities. Thats all SE has been given us and its why the job has fallen into worthless status. If DRK/SCH is our future then we will have no place in the game.

[Kagato]

I'm making adjustments to the first post by removing some ideas that seem to be not as important or considered OP or just worthless.

I removed anything regarding Elemental Magic as well as removing the mini-blood weapon suggestion.

As for tier 4 magic, There are only 2 reasons why I would agree to that:

1) Helping the BLMs find yellow procs. Thing is, all we can do is III and IV. BLMs, RDMs and SCH can do more than that.

2) Nuking a kite-heavy monster. When the monster can run pretty fast and is kited the whole time (Ironclad Smiter comes to mind), I find running around and hitting it with a scythe isn't so quick since it needs to basically stop in place before you get a swing off. This is the only time I'd say throwing magic around would do a little better.

Regardless of these two, it is still very situational and very weak.

[Virjunior]

Maybe we should be focusing on DoT? I find myself critting for between 350 and 589. I also sub warrior, despite having nearly no natural defense ability compared to....well, Paladins and Ninja. When I think about the damage I do, and how easy it is for me to end up tanking in Abyssea, I've found myself paying way more attention to Attack and Double Attack than anything else.

Back when the cap was 75, and when Samurai sub was just becoming the standard, I'd nearly die in parties after accidentally critting a DA for about 660 damage. Now, in abyssea, I can DA crit for around 1100 damage, and with more haste gear and/or a Bard, not to mention Endark...I get scared of the damage I really do. Still, I'm not very far along in mission status, so I'm only rolling with 9% DA.

I'd like to grab some sort of parser to really see what I do in comparison to dual-wielders who never stop attacking, or Samurai who can WS with absurd frequency. Looking at things this way, I don't see Samurai surpassing us in Abyssea, simply because nobody wants ruby light, and that effectively cuts their heads off unless they have Tachi: Fudo and are going up against NMs/Bosses.

[Relyk]

The fact is that non critting jobs have just lost their place as DDs in abyssea. Shoot, most DDs have lost their place in abyssea. While drg and ranger can still put out excellent damage, their usefulness in almost every situation in maw is very limited. So to DRG SAM RNG even COR to some extent and especially DRK oh well... There will be things outside abyssea eventually. Inside abyssea its proc it and drop it, if your job isn't necessary for one of those two things its not going to be favored. Even rdm, while nice to have is losing it's place in the party arrangement.

Inside, leave it to the jobs with either more survivability or better damage in smaller windows.

Things I hoped to see from dark knight were a Dark magic nuke. SE dropped the ball with Impact. Would have been perfect except alas its elemental magic based favoring BLM SCH and even RDM and relying on large levels of m.att.
So call it Demi or something, who gives a crap,
Dark magic Nuke
Short Casting Time
High damage
Medium MP usage (Funny SE, gearing for impact as a galka DRK is a hoot)

"Impetus" for DRK (Not a hard concept)
Attack increases with each successive hit landed.
Duration 3 minutes, recast 5

It's really hard to overcome the low attack speed... No comment. Dark Knight was rarely ideal ever save maybe to enhance chaos roll or in a zerging situation. But it's fun and different and will serve it's purpose outside abyssea again.

lolDL SMN COR BRD DRK DRK DRK

[FioryGriever]

Well i dont think DRK should gain Tier 4 spells, but saying stop giving us casting abilities is basically saying "please remove any magic we have, and while ur @ it combine WAR and SAM into one job /wink" my point was, thats the direction SE itself is wanting to take DRK. /SAM offers a few things that 2h users can take advantage of, tho DRK if forced to focus on its casting abilities would be at a detriment due to the nature of the JA. Meditate is 60 TP every 3 min, a well trained DRK knows how to land abs TP and w/o the cast delay / recast delay from /SAM JA and the increase in both from /SCH plays a big part in acquiring TP in a manor thats befitting the job. Sekkanoki is moot, ud either need to hold ur TP or abs TP @ 100 TP to use it for the "oh wow" factor. while Hasso is great, Seigan+Third Eye actually hurt DRK defence as a whole, tho i spose thats opinionated based on the play style much the same as saying DRK shouldnt cast anything @ all... I used /SCH as a platform for how DRK casting should be, nearly instant casting of Dread Spikes w/ a min and half timer if way better than the 3 min it takes /SAM and thats if you can even get it up (granted you dont cast it B4 u take hate, but then u gamble wasting the spell and MP if u dont take+hold Hate), then you have ABS-Spell, people saying its not worth using them simply because it hurts DoT while it directly increases WS #s and helps the party as a whole by reducing mob stats. by no means am i advicating /SCH over /SAM thats opinion, just stating that SE wants us to use our tools that we were given and not wish we were SAMs or WARs, if they fix abs TP that might help a lil, if they give us a CRIT WS thatd help a bit more (thats if you are only talking abyssea, outside abyssea ur only real threat was spamurai, if you were falling behind that badly to every DD something must have been wrong) but its the nature of our job, i agree we could use something to improve our combat prowess but how long would that last b4 the whiffle bat us because the community gets butt hurt like w/ abs TP

[darklordsidius]

Auto Refresh and I'd love to see DRK get WARP I spell at some level

[FioryGriever]

hmm a DRK version of impetus might be ideal didnt really think of cannibalizing another jobs JA like that one

Grim Fervor - 2h ability only: Attack increases with each successive hit landed. Weapon Delay decreases with each successive hit landed. Defense decreases with each successive hit landed. Slip Damage (figure out a good amount)
Duration 3 minutes, recast 5 (as stated above)

while thinking about that you could almost see a PLD equivalent lawl

[Virjunior]

Auto Refresh and I'd love to see DRK get WARP I spell at some level

Warp means nearly nothing now since scrolls are only 7 CP, but I can definitely get behind Auto Refresh. Either that, or do the FF thing...where tons of mobs have MP, even if they don't cast spells. As it stands, the only things you can Aspir that don't use spells are crabs.

I feel kind of like a jerk, considering there are a fair amount of mobs we can suck MP from, but I think pretty much every one of us has been stuck fighting MP-less mobs for hours, and actually needing to worry about Refresh.

Greater Colibri....oh man...

[solidous]

I edited the mess i posted earlier to something legible and less broken.

[Cljader1]

I for one like the idea of a Mini Blood-Weapon...In fact Blood-Weapon should be a regular JA and SE should give us a new 2hr that's worthwhile.

[Winner]

I would like a longer duration of dread spikes maybe to 1:30 or 2mins. or shorter the recast timer. Also maybe something minor but i always thought if dark knight is a dark base job, Shouldn't they have some dark magic or dark attack resistance? Dark base mobs do, Dark knight are a just a gimp ass war while fighting those types of mobs.

[Jar]

Stop saying that SE should do ANYTHING with lowering the delay on DRKs weapons. DRK/SAM can get TP as fast or faster than a sam because of our high delay weapon advantage.

if you dont understand that look at how weapon delay is the only factor in TP return other than Store TP.

[Greever]

Have souleater take mp instead of hp

Make aspir 2 absorb HP and convert it into mp

Last Resort duration lengthened

Auto-Refresh

[Jar]

Have souleater take mp instead of hp

Make aspir 2 absorb HP and convert it into mp

Last Resort duration lengthened

Auto-Refresh

Souleater taking MP would make it worthless because you only have about 4-600 mp total and 10% of that is 60 You also cant cure MP like HP so it would totally ruin the Job ability.

Making aspir take HP and making it MP would over power the spell not for DRK but for the other jobs that have it could you just see a blm bombing 250mp+ aspirs on everything every time recast was up?

The haste effect on last resort is why it CANNOT be lengthened stop thinking it needs to...

Auto refresh i agree with however, it would be a great addition to the job

[Greever]

Souleater taking MP would make it worthless because you only have about 4-600 mp total and 10% of that is 60 You also cant cure MP like HP so it would totally ruin the Job ability.

Making aspir take HP and making it MP would over power the spell not for DRK but for the other jobs that have it could you just see a blm bombing 250mp+ aspirs on everything every time recast was up?

The haste effect on last resort is why it CANNOT be lengthened stop thinking it needs to...

Auto refresh i agree with however, it would be a great addition to the job



Can adjust %'s as needed. 6 min recast i think ud be able to build back the mp. Ex. 5% mp drained for the same boost. What else are u using the mp for anyway? if ur melee'in u aint castin. Adds a bit of survivability also, if u do pull hate ur not loosing 10-12% hp as u swing while getting your face smashed in. Stops drk from being a MP spounge for that 1 min.

This also can be adjusted. Have Occult Acumen or w/e that useless JA is enhance the spell. That way it only works for drk. Will also allow drk to aspir things that dosent have mp.

I should have stated this, but I believe it should only be lengthened by 30 seconds. not the 2-3 min other ppl are asking for. At least have it the same duration as Souleater

[Taint]

Souleater taking MP would make it worthless because you only have about 4-600 mp total and 10% of that is 60 You also cant cure MP like HP so it would totally ruin the Job ability.

Making aspir take HP and making it MP would over power the spell not for DRK but for the other jobs that have it could you just see a blm bombing 250mp+ aspirs on everything every time recast was up?

The haste effect on last resort is why it CANNOT be lengthened stop thinking it needs to...

Auto refresh i agree with however, it would be a great addition to the job


The Haste effect isn't that big of a deal anymore, its easy to hit the 80cap with a number of different setups. Making LR last 3min like Zerk would help the job tremendously. DRK is sitting at the bottom of the DD pool, not the middle, it could use a couple big boost and not be broken.

[Kagato]

Agreed. It's not about haste. It's about damage. We simply lack it even though we're supposed to be one of the best at it.

[Armangetto]

If they do increase last resorts duration up to 2 to 3 min, and left it at the 25% ja haste cap with despreate blows. I think it would make our dps jump up tremendusly. Prehaps on par or some what close to mnk (counter stance) and wars (retaliation). Also it would mean we wouldnt really need to use hasso on /sam.

We would only lose the acc and str it gives, and the ja haste would be a moot point. This will alow us to use our spells more frequently and not worry too much about casting times and the extended recast timers (unless using segian and third eye). Or if they lowered it to 15% ja haste then just use hasso to hit the 25% cap.

Just doing that would help tremendusly, I would prefere they extended last resort to 2 or 3 mins with 25% ja haste so we wont really need hasso. Im sure people may debate that would be over powered but thats just my 2 cents.

[Michaeluk]

Last resort adjusted to 2-3 minute duration would be a start and a nice new crit hit ws.

[Taint]

The more i think about it the more it should be able to be kept up full time. We fall way behind because of our slow weapons and natural way of gaining DPS/TP faster. (stp,DA,TA,DW traits, MA traits etc) It wouldn't be broken because on easy mobs the Def loss wouldn't be worth it while solo or pulling hate and on larger mobs where the Def down doesn't matter we'll be able to put up decent damage again. We would still need /sam for our 5hits but it would open up other SJs.

DRK Fix Update:

LR Stance or make it full timeable
Crit WS
Fast Cast trait or lower the cast time of useable spells, Abs, Endark, Dread

[RaenRyong]

LR Stance or make it full timeable
Crit WS

Mmm, can Seigan with 25% JA Haste. I'm not saying yours is a dumb idea since in the current state of the game it may not even bring DRK up to top DD (though high-top tier I have no doubt) since WAR is very overpowered.

Still, I'd be back playing DRK if this happened and that would be wonderful!

[Taint]

Mmm, can Seigan with 25% JA Haste. I'm not saying yours is a dumb idea since in the current state of the game it may not even bring DRK up to top DD (though high-top tier I have no doubt) since WAR is very overpowered.

Still, I'd be back playing DRK if this happened and that would be wonderful!

Yeah it would put DRK in the 4-5 spot in terms of damage, much better then the bottom where it is now.

[Kagato]

If they do increase last resorts duration up to 2 to 3 min, and left it at the 25% ja haste cap with despreate blows. I think it would make our dps jump up tremendusly. Prehaps on par or some what close to mnk (counter stance) and wars (retaliation). Also it would mean we wouldnt really need to use hasso on /sam.

We would only lose the acc and str it gives, and the ja haste would be a moot point. This will alow us to use our spells more frequently and not worry too much about casting times and the extended recast timers (unless using segian and third eye). Or if they lowered it to 15% ja haste then just use hasso to hit the 25% cap.

Just doing that would help tremendusly, I would prefere they extended last resort to 2 or 3 mins with 25% ja haste so we wont really need hasso. Im sure people may debate that would be over powered but thats just my 2 cents.

I'd even be willing to test out other subjobs if this were the case.

[Greever]

The more i think about it the more it should be able to be kept up full time. We fall way behind because of our slow weapons and natural way of gaining DPS/TP faster. (stp,DA,TA,DW traits, MA traits etc) It wouldn't be broken because on easy mobs the Def loss wouldn't be worth it while solo or pulling hate and on larger mobs where the Def down doesn't matter we'll be able to put up decent damage again. We would still need /sam for our 5hits but it would open up other SJs.

DRK Fix Update:

LR Stance or make it full timeable
Crit WS
Fast Cast trait or lower the cast time of useable spells, Abs, Endark, Dread

Hey Taint, id really like your opinion about the other things i mentioned, souleater consuming mp and the change to aspir.

I was also thinking that the change of making aspir 2 absorb hp and convert it into mp via Occult Acumen it could also work for the first aspir. So it would be able to fuel Souleater.

I know Occult Acumen is obtained at lvl 45, but with these changes they could also change the lvl at which it is recieved. Make it lvl 50 or something. That way this would be exclusive to drk only.

[Urteil]

Crit WS is okay.

First off, please put this on the page: Drain II needs to have a cool-down near or equal to Aspir II, it being on a three minute cool down is god damn retarded.

And second so SE can see this if they ever look at the thread, since they obviously think Dark Knight parries alot, and we already have Tactical parry. Please state that Dark Knight Parrying needs to be raised to a B- MINIMUM.

I wouldn't even be saying this shit if the curveball from left field that is TA wasn't bestowed upon us by the generous FFXI gods. /sarcasm



All that aside...

Full timing last resort or getting things that reduce our survivability even more will suck unless we somehow get SE to raise our inherent toughness, without relying on our subs for 90-100% of our ability to not die.


But Dark Knight isn't supposed to just do the most damage, we are supposed to have a lot of utility as well.

We REALLY need a defensive stat, or a way to survive, what would make the most sense after SE gave us loltacticalparry, is to give us a very high parrying skill rating. Wishful thinking would place DRK at A- parrying.

Even cooler would be passives based on what weapon type you are using, Greatsword / Scythe. Greatsword being a more defensive weapon (LOOKING AT YOU VITALITY CALADBOLG) would grant us a bonus to parrying and defense.

Scythe would give us a bonus to critical hit rate, critical hit damage (which would stack nicely with our new trait), perhaps a small amount of store tp and or a moderate amount of attack.

Damage needs a bit of a boost, but not as badly as other aspects of the job.

Seeing as how our counterpart the Paladin possesses shield.


It honestly would be better and more interesting to give our job more spells that are useful.

Darkness based debuffs ie -plague, a way to increase the damage a monster takes from incoming damage via a spell / JA, the ability to actually reduce a monters stats to the point of it mattering (and having the absorb spells not decay.)

Stun II, a way to terrorize.

God forbid we get some survivability ourselves through magic as well, the magic side of Dark Knight is the most heavily overlooked. I'm not really a fan of nuking on it to be honest, but being able to get some unique ways to hinder the enemy would be super.

All that the other martial jobs have is damage, they don't have magic (granted monk has obscene survivability).

Giving us a crit WS is hardly a fix its probably the bottom of the barrel, there are many other things that can be done to the job.

If we posses the #1 damage slot + magic, what do the other jobs have? I agree our damage is lacking, but it doesn't need to be the endall for what DRK is.

And if you want it to be, please go play something else. Monk or warrior perhaps, because smacking and punching shit is /all/ they have, we are supposed to have damage + 'a lot of other cool shit we don't.'

[RaenRyong]

DRK should be top DD if they are riding Souleater and other sacrificial abilities because they are just that: a sacrifice. It is stupid that we have to sacrifice so much to still come short of them. Without riding sacrificial abilities, should still be powerful.

Utility and such is lovely but we do need great damage. Without that, we are not useful - this is not a game for hybrids in a party situation.

[Kagato]

The main issue is that DRKs aren't only not needed by most groups, but frequently DRKs are not WANTED by many groups. The reason is because all of our abilities don't have any long-term benefits. WARs and MNKs have long term benefits because a lot of their best abilities are from their main job abilities and last for a long time. The reason we DRKs struggle is because our best abilities are too dangerous, too short or outright useless.

Increasing our Parry skill would definitely make Tactical Parry more useful as well as allow us to live longer. Look at FFXIV. Marauders, basically that game's DRK, are experts in Parry. We have no shields, but we have huge weapons! Let us use those huge weapons for parry! That will give us more defensive options, at least for melee attacks.

Last Resort being too short is still one of the biggest problems holding us back. It needs to have a longer duration.

I like the idea of Stun II being more like a Terrorize. I'd love for us to have a stronger Stun ability. It would actually give us more use in endgame events. Right now, there are too many other jobs who are basically being looked at first for Stunning, such as Black Mages or Blue Mages.

Also, let me make something very clear. Why are we tied with Black Mages in Dark Magic skill? Why aren't we better than them at it? If Dark Magic skill is going to be our #1 magic, shouldn't we have it at A+ instead of A-?

And on that note, why did RDMs, of all people, get Bio III and not us? I can kind of understand since RDMs are mostly enfeeble mages, but come on. I thought Bio was going to be one of our better Dark Magic spells, but it's useless now that RDMs have Bio III to beat our Bio II.

The point about DRK is that sure, we have a lot of cool abilities at our disposal. However, every other job can do the same thing we can at the same level of skill, if not better:

-Red Mages have a stronger Bio than we do.
-Black Mages have the same Dark Magic skill we do plus better elemental magic.
-Blue Mages stun better than we do. RDM and BLM too depending on their setups.
-Warriors and Monks DoT better than we do.
-more than half of other melee jobs have stronger Weapon Skills than we do.
-Every other melee job has more survival options than we do.

This is why we are never needed for anything. There's a job that does something better than us for everything we do. The only exceptions are Apocalypse Dark Knights who can survive from Catastrophe and the Haste Aftermath, but that requires a relic. Needing a relic to be on-par with other AVERAGE players is too much.

Seriously, what do we do better than any other job right now? Spike damage? Since accuracy is nearly useless now, lower-delay, multi-hitting weapons do more damage than our single swings per attack round. Spike damage means nothing unless we literally do enormous damage. The only way to do that is with Souleater, but it costs us HP, reducing our survival which is a major flaw and keeps us from being wanted since survival in events mean everything.

We need something that we can constantly, consistently and permanently do better than other jobs that is both useful and not get us killed for it. That is when Dark Knights will stop being such crap.

[Bulrogg]

I think it would be a nice addition if Dark Knight had one of those spells/abilities that put a mob into a deep sleep where attacks didn't wake it like Nightmare and those new spells/moves in Abyssea.

[Taint]

Crit WS is okay.

First off, please put this on the page: Drain II needs to have a cool-down near or equal to Aspir II, it being on a three minute cool down is god damn retarded.

And second so SE can see this if they ever look at the thread, since they obviously think Dark Knight parries alot, and we already have Tactical parry. Please state that Dark Knight Parrying needs to be raised to a B- MINIMUM.

I wouldn't even be saying this shit if the curveball from left field that is TA wasn't bestowed upon us by the generous FFXI gods. /sarcasm



All that aside...

Full timing last resort or getting things that reduce our survivability even more will suck unless we somehow get SE to raise our inherent toughness, without relying on our subs for 90-100% of our ability to not die.


But Dark Knight isn't supposed to just do the most damage, we are supposed to have a lot of utility as well.

We REALLY need a defensive stat, or a way to survive, what would make the most sense after SE gave us loltacticalparry, is to give us a very high parrying skill rating. Wishful thinking would place DRK at A- parrying.

Even cooler would be passives based on what weapon type you are using, Greatsword / Scythe. Greatsword being a more defensive weapon (LOOKING AT YOU VITALITY CALADBOLG) would grant us a bonus to parrying and defense.

Scythe would give us a bonus to critical hit rate, critical hit damage (which would stack nicely with our new trait), perhaps a small amount of store tp and or a moderate amount of attack.

Damage needs a bit of a boost, but not as badly as other aspects of the job.

Seeing as how our counterpart the Paladin possesses shield.


It honestly would be better and more interesting to give our job more spells that are useful.

Darkness based debuffs ie -plague, a way to increase the damage a monster takes from incoming damage via a spell / JA, the ability to actually reduce a monters stats to the point of it mattering (and having the absorb spells not decay.)

Stun II, a way to terrorize.

God forbid we get some survivability ourselves through magic as well, the magic side of Dark Knight is the most heavily overlooked. I'm not really a fan of nuking on it to be honest, but being able to get some unique ways to hinder the enemy would be super.

All that the other martial jobs have is damage, they don't have magic (granted monk has obscene survivability).

Giving us a crit WS is hardly a fix its probably the bottom of the barrel, there are many other things that can be done to the job.

If we posses the #1 damage slot + magic, what do the other jobs have? I agree our damage is lacking, but it doesn't need to be the endall for what DRK is.

And if you want it to be, please go play something else. Monk or warrior perhaps, because smacking and punching shit is /all/ they have, we are supposed to have damage + 'a lot of other cool shit we don't.'


If your vision of DRK came true it would continue to be a pointless part of any party/alliance. We already have some utility but it is over shadowed by our lack of damage. DRK used to be a main part of this game because it could put up very solid DD numbers and also toss a stun.

[Siiri]

I think DRK needs some boosts but at this stage of the game a lot of the overly complicated suggestions are not going to be done. More realistic are suggestions like up Last Resort to 2 or 3 minutes, give scythe and g. sword a critical based weapon skill that compares with Drakesbane, etc. Also reduce casting time of spells so they are used more, because every moment casting is a moment not swinging and affects DPS. Dread spikes is a good example of this, by the time we cast it we lost hate. Also possibly make absorb spells not decay and make them close to instant cast. Its time DRK got some melee buffs.

If SE is going to majorly rework job, I think 2 stances would be appropriate. A melee stance like Hasso and a casting stance where spells go off quicker, native MAB, lower recast etc. I am sure most DRKS would be in the melee stance 99% of the time, but since SE wants to push casting at least it would be there. I am not sure SE is that interested in doing that much work at this time though, hence my first paragraph of the easy adjustments. Stun 2 would be nice as well, so many jobs have stun now.

[Urteil]

RDM and BLU do just fine by themselves and in an alliance, they have solo capability as well as the ability to bring damage and or utility that benefits the party to the table.

I want Dark Knight to be able to have some of that as well through the addition of utility, and being able to solo would be nice to. Its pretty irritating to be a job that has to have at least 1 other job behind it, mainly a cure bombing White Mage, to be effective and I am pretty sure that we are the only job that can't use its own job abilities effectively.

On that note SE really has to take a serious look at souleater.

That being said my ideas do nothing but benefit party play as well and allow Dark Knight to become something more than a job I switch from my TP set to my WS set, from my TP to my WS set and ignore the 600mp below my health bar. If I wanted to do just that, I'd go play Monk or Warrior and go afk.

I'd rather have four Dark Knights that do 20% less damage than another job with the ability to terrorize, bounce damage with dread spikes, etc, as long as our ability to use magical options and abilities are useful. Which they are not at this current point in time.

Damage + Utility > Damage. Even though WAR can WS through the roof I'd never play it, I'd be more inclined to play MNK because in addition to damage it has utility in its ability to tank and survive.

All other jobs have is damage, but if we had the ability to influence combat effectively we could bring that to a party or alliance, a really good example is the ability for us to curse a target therfore increasing the damage dealt to it by everyone including ourselves. A magical version of angon perhaps but that would give a % increase to incoming damage for a short amount of time.

This would help everyone in the party, everyone would want a DRK and it would boost our numbers too. Thats /really/ what party play is, them just boosting our numbers for damage just brings us closer to being a WAR or a MNK. The game already has those jobs, and all that serves to do is make Dark Knights who really have no idea what the job should encompass feel better about doing something that WAR does best already, and honestly is all that WAR has.

The above fix would also help is in solo play boosting our drain damage from a target or having a multitude of applications other than something as simplistic as raising a ftp mod on a WS of ours.

If your final vision of Dark Knight is only to do the largest number, it seems like you just want to be another simple martial job, and we already have those.

But if it came down to a choice, at this rate I'll take anything.

Anything, because its just sad what has become of our job in PvE situations.

[Taint]

RDM and BLU do just fine by themselves and in an alliance, they have solo capability as well as the ability to bring damage and or utility that benefits the party to the table.

I want Dark Knight to be able to have some of that as well through the addition of utility, and being able to solo would be nice to. Its pretty irritating to be a job that has to have at least 1 other job behind it, mainly a cure bombing White Mage, to be effective and I am pretty sure that we are the only job that can't use its own job abilities effectively.

On that note SE really has to take a serious look at souleater.

That being said my ideas do nothing but benefit party play as well and allow Dark Knight to become something more than a job I switch from my TP set to my WS set, from my TP to my WS set and ignore the 600mp below my health bar. If I wanted to do just that, I'd go play Monk or Warrior and go afk.

I'd rather have four Dark Knights that do 20% less damage than another job with the ability to terrorize, bounce damage with dread spikes, etc, as long as our ability to use magical options and abilities are useful. Which they are not at this current point in time.

Damage + Utility > Damage. Even though WAR can WS through the roof I'd never play it, I'd be more inclined to play MNK because in addition to damage it has utility in its ability to tank and survive.

All other jobs have is damage, but if we had the ability to influence combat effectively we could bring that to a party or alliance, a really good example is the ability for us to curse a target therfore increasing the damage dealt to it by everyone including ourselves. A magical version of angon perhaps but that would give a % increase to incoming damage for a short amount of time.

This would help everyone in the party, everyone would want a DRK and it would boost our numbers too. Thats /really/ what party play is, them just boosting our numbers for damage just brings us closer to being a WAR or a MNK. The game already has those jobs, and all that serves to do is make Dark Knights who really have no idea what the job should encompass feel better about doing something that WAR does best already, and honestly is all that WAR has.

The above fix would also help is in solo play boosting our drain damage from a target or having a multitude of applications other than something as simplistic as raising a ftp mod on a WS of ours.

If your final vision of Dark Knight is only to do the largest number, it seems like you just want to be another simple martial job, and we already have those.

But if it came down to a choice, at this rate I'll take anything.

Anything, because its just sad what has become of our job in PvE situations.


I do most of my soloing on DRK, its hardly a bad solo job if played right.

I'm not saying DRK has to be #1 but it has to be in the top 5 which it is not even close to atm.

WAR has way more utility then MNK, you can AFK play MNK on a Tier2 NM in Abyssea. I have a capped gear DRK, capped gear SAM, very nice geared MNK and WAR and guess what jobs my LS wants me to play 90% of the time? A year ago I was perma DRK and SAM but both of those jobs took a huge hit in the last year. My 90masa SAM still gets some burn but my DRK is for Jeuno AFK only. I dont care how many spells a DRK can cast, how long it can terror a mob, if WARs are dropping 5k RRs while DRKs are doing 2k Guillotines nobody will care for that terror, stun etc. Factor in our DPS is stupid low and our TP gain is among the slowest even when 5hitting and you got yourself a dead job.

Your vision of 4 DRKs bouncing terror and hate sounds a ton like a group of BST, which makes sense because we are view as useful as a BST atm.

[Dart]

technically bst is more useful than us atm. Just to be fair~

and before you lump me in with the haters, please don't. While I haven't had an apoc as long as you have. I have had one for a very long time. I've been a career drk since middle of 04, but i'm in the same boat. Just to be useful for my ls I got a ukon. ._. ,but if they ever do actually fix drk (and i'm not holding my breath) I'll be back on fulltime drk status faster than anyone.

Btw, for all of you guys trying to add all these overly complex ideas, please just stop.

Drk is and always has been a dd job (with stun!), but we're a dd job that can't complete with even a pup atm. Stop with the spells bullshit.

Two simple things that would get us back into the fight. (hell i don't want to break the job, I just want to be in the fight)

All jobs should have a Crit ws for our main weapons (gsword and scythe), this includes sam as well, and have good modifiers. Honestly we have the highest base dmg weapons in the game. We should be able to keep up with Raging Rush numbers (imo we should be able to beat it), however war and mnk should win in pure melee dmg imo.

increase LR effect time. Combined with desperate blows this would be quite a boost.

[Jar]

The Haste effect isn't that big of a deal anymore, its easy to hit the 80cap with a number of different setups. Making LR last 3min like Zerk would help the job tremendously. DRK is sitting at the bottom of the DD pool, not the middle, it could use a couple big boost and not be broken.


No only DRK can get to the 25% job ablity haste cap(other than 2houring DRG).... and because haste is exponential that extra 5-15%(you can get 10% from hasso and 10% from a DNC but almost never have a dance so 15% is more notable) is huge when capping or close to capping equipment and magic haste...

[Raelia]

No only DRK can get to the 25% job ablity haste cap(other than 2houring DRG).... and because haste is exponential that extra 5-15%(you can get 10% from hasso and 10% from a DNC but almost never have a dance so 15% is more notable) is huge when capping or close to capping equipment and magic haste...
With the enormous and glaring assumption that you aren't already hitting 80% total haste cap?

[Urteil]

I do most of my soloing on DRK, its hardly a bad solo job if played right.

I'm not saying DRK has to be #1 but it has to be in the top 5 which it is not even close to atm.

WAR has way more utility then MNK, you can AFK play MNK on a Tier2 NM in Abyssea. I have a capped gear DRK, capped gear SAM, very nice geared MNK and WAR and guess what jobs my LS wants me to play 90% of the time? A year ago I was perma DRK and SAM but both of those jobs took a huge hit in the last year. My 90masa SAM still gets some burn but my DRK is for Jeuno AFK only. I dont care how many spells a DRK can cast, how long it can terror a mob, if WARs are dropping 5k RRs while DRKs are doing 2k Guillotines nobody will care for that terror, stun etc. Factor in our DPS is stupid low and our TP gain is among the slowest even when 5hitting and you got yourself a dead job.

Your vision of 4 DRKs bouncing terror and hate sounds a ton like a group of BST, which makes sense because we are view as useful as a BST atm.


Its good at soloing with a relic, other jobs can solo just fine without a relic, so I'd like DRK to be able to do better in that respect.

Caladbolg is a huge step in the right direction as fixes the lolguillotine problem in PvE. With that weapon I wouldn't say our DPS is stupid low at all. Still far from being the best.

[Taint]

Caladbolg is a huge step in the right direction as fixes the lolguillotine problem in PvE. With that weapon I wouldn't say our DPS is stupid low at all. Still far from being the best.

Caladbolg doesn't fix our DPS at all if you give the other competeing jobs Emps as well. At 75 our DPS was helped by DRKs huge attack, at 90 that advantage is more then gone. Att is borderline a worthless stat with how easy it is obtained. As I've said before other jobs have DW,MA,DA,TA,Fencer,Zanshin,STP,Jumps etc that all add damage and TP.

[vedder]

i agree strongly with taint in that its our melee side that needs the boost but at the same time i think zicdeh has the right idea of increasing our melee through our magic. lower, like stun fast, casts on the absorb line of spells without decay or at least a lower rate of decay and the ability to re-apply overtop, a crit based multihit ws for our2 main weapons (i still like greatsword more for aesthetic reasons but scythe is cool too)and some one else mentioned a few things but ill remention them here cause i thought they were great ideas and i even thought of them before reading others had.

absorb-speed~ great idea giving us drks an spell to full on cap haste by ourselves with say the 2-3min LR or at least come close while also putting a slow effect on a mob which could stack with the spell slow much like abs-acc can stack with blind

a trait that allows us to cast on undead/dark resistant mobs

and id like to see a trait come in (not ja) that increases our tp dps phase, like if u crit it should be wayyyy higher dmg(not sure but i think other jobs got better crit hit rate/dmg traits than us, thanks alot SE)

spell that drains hp an converts to our mp, for foes that dont have mp to aspir (im a galka so uh, yea mp issues r us)

darkness based DoT that acts as a regen or refresh spell on us, keep in mind im suggesting these things(spells) wanting them to be very fast to castwith moderate recasts/mp use)

a higher ability to survive like dreadspikes having better cast times(cast and recast) and higher (much higher)parrying since they gave us a trait that is all but useless (id say raise it to B- level, shouldnt be as high as sam but considering wars use retaliation for tp it should be higher than them, hell raise pld too for godsakes) another drain spell be good too as well as looking at the formulae used for them(someone mentioned the scaling is getting wonky here on previous post)

adjusting the wsc mods on/or ftp mods and/or giving some of our ws's that cratio bonus gekko gets, to more drk friendly mods (add str to caladbolgs cleaver ffs man....)

totally unrelated but wouldnt torcleaver make more sense if it was a three hit ws btw? just talking about the myths behind it an all (the three great hills being lopped off an all)

in the end its dps/ws and survivability that needs fixing plain an simple

[vedder]

oh yea UNNERF ABS-TP U NINJA-ING@$@!#$@#$

k done lol

[Dart]

drk can already hit haste cap in gear, just need double marches from a bard and haste and off we go like all the other dd jobs.

This still does not solve the problem of our lackluster melee dmg, and lack of a crit ws for our main weapons

[Jar]

With the enormous and glaring assumption that you aren't already hitting 80% total haste cap?

Strike back with logic not insults..

The fact that i CAN and DO reach the 80% cap is why i can spout off on what it amends to.

[vedder]

the absorb speed idea allows us to not "need" as much support, eg magic haste, plus as kirshy has shown on another forum, slow on mobs doesnt cap at 100% adding another tool to a repertoire that can be seen as value. i mean how often are u getting full marches/haste in an abyssea style xp group atm? From what iv seen most ppl just come as war/mnk etc rather than brd as the v.smite or ukko spam makes up for the spot taken by brd. Just a thought.

haste cap from gear is 25(26) ja 25 and that leaves about 30% unspoken for so add a whm or buffer that actuaully remembers haste (spell) that adds on what 15%? still leaves another 15% where absorb speed could be tossed on to help out, blu can get a haste type spell, dont know what its called but why cant we since we're both magic using dd.

as i said previously, my ideas are more or less icing on a cake whereas the cake itself would see our ws's modified to be more damaging and something that allows us to use them more, like unnerfing abs tp, hell im sure u all remember the sheer joy of that spell when it first came out lol. maybe not bring back to that level but least let it absorb tp the mob does have w/o so much 1/2 1/4 1/8 bs (though it was fun guilly spammin on decos when i first got it lol)

on another topic entirely, can somebody plz direct me to the maths for the whole delay reduction thing with dw+haste? i saw it some where on bg awhile ago but didnt get time to really read through it, asking cus i might trade in abyssal ear for suppa since i might be lvln nin

[Dart]

i'm in the minority but the group that i run with always has a bard in the main party (there's only around 7-10ish of us) hell we got our bard the empy harp, i better have friggin songs! lol

[Ordoric]

if drk actualy had an mp pool or spells worth casting occult would be worth it

[Returner]

I don't mind SE enhances our magic side, as long as they do it properly. Near instant cast on darkmagic spells, or the ability to melee while casting are both great way to fix our magic side. If that's done, then magic can finally be a real part of our arsenal without hurting our DD output. When that happens, that becomes a plus as casting absorb tp will not hurt our melee damage while pumping extra TP, casting endark, drain, drain II without any hold back, and dreadspike without losing hate (I hate the fact that most of the time I have hate and cast spike and end up not having hate after I casted cuz my melee output stopped while I am casting). SE wants our magic side be the difference so let it be melee friendly. Paladin can block while casting, I don't see why DRK can't melee while casting. That with a little bit of LR adjustment will go a long way.

[Urteil]

Yea I'm all for 'magic' but they have to do it right.

Let's be honest though its way more likely for them to fix our melee side correctly, because you know fixing us to the point to where magic would be useful would take....intelligence?

[Taint]

Yea I'm all for 'magic' but they have to do it right.

Let's be honest though its way more likely for them to fix our melee side correctly, because you know fixing us to the point to where magic would be useful would take....intelligence?

Lets pray then aren't intelligent then.

Maybe all the DRKs preeching Magic damage don't have the gear to compete on the melee side, or never played when DRK was considered a top tier job. Or they forget how BLM was used prior to Abyssea. Casting in this game will never compete with buffed Melees.

[Kagato]

Well I tried making a sister topic to this one and already people are running in treating it as a discussion topic and a way to flame DRKs.

[Jar]

Well I tried making a sister topic to this one and already people are running in treating it as a discussion topic and a way to flame DRKs.
totally loled at this QQ more please??

Try actually thinking of something worthwhile over starting worthless threads?

[Jar]

Also, let me make something very clear. Why are we tied with Black Mages in Dark Magic skill? Why aren't we better than them at it? If Dark Magic skill is going to be our #1 magic, shouldn't we have it at A+ instead of A-?

And on that note, why did RDMs, of all people, get Bio III and not us? I can kind of understand since RDMs are mostly enfeeble mages, but come on. I thought Bio was going to be one of our better Dark Magic spells, but it's useless now that RDMs have Bio III to beat our Bio II.



-Red Mages have a stronger Bio than we do.


i wondered the darkmagic skill thing also [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]
atm what i see is they gave rdm that to balance it out because with good darkmagic skill builds bio II is stronger thana rdms bio III because we get so much more skill(excluding /sch)...

[Cruentus]

Don't be a jerk, Jar. There are polite ways of making your points. I suggest you use them.

[Jar]

Don't be a jerk, Jar. There are polite ways of making your points. I suggest you use them.

no thank you kind sir?

[Cruentus]

no thank you kind sir?

I can't really refer to you as "kind sir," given that you've already proven yourself not to be all that kind. But yes, you have me on the "thank you" bit. I'm not exactly used to being kind, either. ^^;

[Kagato]

Cruentus, just ignore him. He's being too rude to enjoy a polite conversation.

There's an option to ignore people's posts by clicking on their name for their profile and selecting "ignore."

[Kagato]

Included the list of top requests in post #2.

[Dart]

Lets pray then aren't intelligent then.

Maybe all the DRKs preeching Magic damage don't have the gear to compete on the melee side, or never played when DRK was considered a top tier job. Or they forget how BLM was used prior to Abyssea. Casting in this game will never compete with buffed Melees.

I can't agree more, if we want to be relevant again they must boost our melee/ws aspects. Casting is great and a nice utility but people just seem to ignore the fact that to get a spot as a dd, you have to actually do damage comparable to war, mnk, drg, rng, nin, etc. I'm not saying beat, but being able to hang with the rest is the idea. Otherwise we're a token job suitable for standing in jeuno and looking pretty in our full bale+2

[Urteil]

Lets pray then aren't intelligent then.

Maybe all the DRKs preeching Magic damage don't have the gear to compete on the melee side, or never played when DRK was considered a top tier job. Or they forget how BLM was used prior to Abyssea. Casting in this game will never compete with buffed Melees.

You act as if doing DRK melee in PvE is hard. Your gear argument is ridiculous, I have excellent gear.

You act as if everyone who wants the job with second highest INT, second highest elemental and #1 dark magic to have more magic is asking for something that doesn't logically follow.
On that note I don't believe I ever said "our melee is perfectly fine" it sure as hell is not.

Melee is simple and so is PvE, capped haste set up, WS setups for every WS, research mobs and adjust ATK and Stat Mod gear accordingly.

People preaching magic don't want the job to be Monk, you have a Monk and a Masamune.

So if you are so obsessed with pure Melee go play them?


They don't have MP pools, and I'm sure you have excellent gear.

The argument is not that our melee is fine, and to just boost magic.

The real point is that both need to be fixed, the game has several other damage dealing jobs with no MP pools or magic. Why the hell would we want to be more of jobs that already exist, and that you have: MNK and SAM.

[Jar]

You act as if doing DRK melee in PvE is hard. Your gear argument is ridiculous, I have excellent gear.

You act as if everyone who wants the job with second highest INT, second highest elemental and #1 dark magic to have more magic is asking for something that doesn't logically follow.
On that note I don't believe I ever said "our melee is perfectly fine" it sure as hell is not.

Melee is simple and so is PvE, capped haste set up, WS setups for every WS, research mobs and adjust ATK and Stat Mod gear accordingly.

People preaching magic don't want the job to be Monk, you have a Monk and a Masamune.

So if you are so obsessed with pure Melee go play them?


They don't have MP pools, and I'm sure you have excellent gear.

i do agree we need new magic as well as something like BLM new trait to speed spells up

[Kagato]

With the release of the "Like" system, please rate-up this topic so the dev team might take it more seriously, in case they haven't already.

[Kagato]

I was talking to Urteil earlier and he mentioned Dark Magic "nuke" spells. Dark mgaic spells tailor made to deal damage, much like there is Banish and Holy for Divine Magic.

That may give room for us to make use out of Occult Accument and make us have reason to get INT and Dark Magic skill builds against monsters that normally there wouldn't be any need to DD on.

Urteil's idea so he has that credit. I invite him to mention anything different to his idea from what I posted.


Also, I admit the idea of "Stances" are growing on me. In fact, I think many of our woes can be fixed this way. Think about it.

Melee Stance
Pros: Includes some or All of these
Increased Last Resort Duration.
Higher Critical Hit% or Critical Damage added to Weapon Skills
Higher Critical Hit Damage
Maybe a little bit of a Haste boost, like 5%.
Increased Parry Rate

Cons: Includes some or all of these.

Longer Dark Magic recast time.
More Enmity Generated (Might be good for those acting as Tanks though)
Occult Acumen Trait cancelled.
Longer Dark Magic casting time.



Magic Stance
Pros: Includes some or all of these.

Greatly Shortened Dark Magic casting time.
Shortened Magic recasting time.
Potent Magic Attack Bonus
Boosted Dark Magic Skill
Slower decay on Absorb spells
Attack while casting?


Cons: Includes some or all of these.

Slower delay on melee attacks (10% Slow or something to that extent)
Lowered Attack and Defense
Lowered Parry and Evasion


This could include a lot of our requests into 2 job abilities and balance things out with each ability's cons. We'll get a melee boost when we DD and a magic boost when we can't so we can have more uses overall.

What thoughts does everyone else have on this?

[Urteil]

I like the stances thing, but reduced defense needs to be taken away, Dark Knight drastically needs survivability not to have things or anything taken away from it.

If anything the Dark magic stance should drastically buff dread spikes; in addition to the other ideas were very plausible and sound.


On that note, dread spikes needs to be buffed to where it has a higher threshold of damage, 75% base, with the AF+2 boosting it to 100% of your max hp. Have you seen the crazy shit BLU gets? It honestly is a drop in a bucket compared to that crap, that and OR:

Remove the one minute duration, extend the duration to three to five minutes so it doesn't wear off before the limit is reached, as it stands its a rather useless spell.

So either have a stance that has the side effect of boosting its power greatly, or the spell needs to be fixed.

And Dread Spikes is nerfed so badly in ballista its stupid, 20%? Come on what the hell.

[Chogokin]

Just recently started playing DRK again, slightly annoyed by how lame we seem to be at the minute!
Here are my suggestions:

Idea 1) First off, a pair of Job traits to make casting worthwhile.
"Job trait 1": When any absorb spell is used on the enemy, for the duration of the absorbed effect, the caster also gains an increased Crit Hit rate. Multiple tiers increase Crit Hit %.
"Job trait 2": When the DRK scores a crit hit, they gain a buff for a very short period of time (~3 sec?). During this window, all direct damage dark and elemental spells have their cast time reduced to near instant (think stun cast time). Wears off after 1 cast. Multiple tiers increase duration of window of opportunity.

My reasoning behind this is thus: A crit hit boost is good for DD... so DRK will want to keep an Absorb effect up at all times (so more absorb casting). Then, when they do get a crit, they have a short time in which to cast a Nuke. Even if it's weak, with a short cast time it's basically free damage (plus free TP from occult accumen). These traits should be gained low enough to encourage casting... lv50 or something?

Idea 2) New spells
Absorb: X II: A second tier of absorbs. These should have near atma levels of stat boosts. I also thought it would be nice if they applied a small "Drain over time" effect.
This DoT would help make up for the melee swings lost during casting. Furthermore, as each Absorb would be its own debuff, you could potentially stack many of these DoTs. Would also add some survivability, esp in longer fights.

Idea 3) Job ability to help with casting
"Blood Price": User sacrifices 10% of their HP in order to instantly cast their next spell.

I personally think this idea is less cool than idea 1, but perhaps "better"... I suppose it would need a suitable recast for balance etc. Would be nice if it could be used when subbed, lv40?

[Karuyag]

GDI... i just typed a really long post just to have it erased cuz the site logged me out automatically... (i knew i shoulda copy-pasted first)

Anyways... here's my 2 cents:

1. I know people want to increase Last Resort's duration... but instead of going with with a mock Berserk... why not just add better job abilities/traits...going by it's name... it should be a LAST resort... not FIRST resort... and maybe if they DO buff it... make it stronger that Berserk... it IS the LAST resort after all... maybe add abilities something along the lines of buffing WS damage/crit rate/crit damage/haste/fast cast/recast reduction or some other stat that affects direct damage...

2. HP/MP/TP... DRK is known to be the job that specializes in sacrificing themselves to damage their foes... Going with that theme... why not take that to the next level... instead of just having Souleater... how about abilities that consume TP or MP to increase their damage (kinda like MP Attack in FFIX)... or maybe an ability to use HP/TP to cast spells... or an ability that consumes MP or HP to use/buff weapon skill... Also someone brought up the idea of having a trait that increases damage as HP goes down... Since most JA's tend to have a trade-off... DRK's trade off is health consumption... or maybe have some overpowered ability's side-effect to be a short weakened state...

3. After using up yourself and dealing all that damage...time for recovery... Since DRK also specializes in draining/absorbing as well... take that to the next level too... first of all... CHANGE THE 2 HOUR ABILITY!!!... DRG had its 2hr changed... why not DRK?... Blood weapon is powerful yes... but why not make the recast more readily available?... it'll be one the DRK's major arsenal as recovery from just ravaging that poor bluffalo with its HP consuming abilities... that being said... maybe the new 2hr should be something that makes your abilities (going from suggestion #2) not consume HP and be in the low-HP-high damage state without having HP be in that level... maybe also add more ways to drain/restore HP... not just with spells... or maybe some ability to restore HP with TP (kinda like Chivalry for HP... not so much a Curing Waltz)... also maybe have some ability that uses HP to recover MP (kind of like a self-use devotion not so much convert)... also... maybe also reduce enmity generation of these abilities... or maybe some ability that consumes HP/MP to reduce enmity... i just think its funny that other jobs get some defensive abilities... and DRK gets.. what... arcane circle?

4. Spells/Abilities... on top of the abilities suggested above... I agree with everyone about adding more absorb-stat spells and having no decay... What I don't agree with is being able to attack while casting... maybe... just reduce the casting times instead... 1 second or less... maybe along the lines of the length of a JA animation... i also agree about dark-type nukes maybe make them have some added effect as well (plague, virus, amnesia, def-down to arcana or some other non-elementally attached enfeeble) (always thought that Doomed-family ability "Abyss Blast" would be a good example for the dark spell)... dread spikes and endark are good ideas... maybe improve their effects a little... also maybe an ability that turns your weapon damage into dark elemental damage (ala formless strikes)...

5. Weapon skills... my idea would be some kind of AoE drain WS (kinda like blood drain... maybe magic damage based) instead/on top of the PAINFULLY DREADFUL infernal scythe... i mean... with all gear available to drk... it's still not gonna match other WS's in damage... might as well make it useful... Also, i agree with improving modifiers to WS... and maybe increase them at the 100 TP level... as far as a crit based WS... WS's shouldnt be a DRK's main source of high damage... HP-consuming abilities that improve every swing should be the focus IMO... strong enough that it the damage from every swing + WS damage would add up and be comparable to spike-damaged-RR-buffed-crit WS... example: maybe DRK can do 700-1k damage on a buffed critical hit :X... and maybe in brew mode... every DRK swing does 2k damage :X... i mean our main weapons isnt about fast hits... its about strong slow hits...

Gah... my mind is spent... im really pissed that the stuff i typed earlier got erased... now my train of thought is gone... and i might have missed some of the ideas i typed earlier... but hopefully these suggestions would pique ideas... im sure some would disagree.. but hey... this is my opinion...

[FioryGriever]

Meh, don't like the idea of tier II abs-spell. DRK doesn't need any more spells in that aspect, getting rid of the decay is the way to go. Dread Spikes should remain the same % but increase its duration. I like the idea of casting while you melee, it would make DRK much more versatile; the problem isn't so much as casting speed imo as people wanting to not have the negative effects from their /sam, and honestly. ~That's too bad~ People chose to go the heavy DD / TP / WS route, they can't have it both ways, its a good limiter. For WS I'd like to see another level of the Crescent Moon / Sickle Moon line, make it a 3 hit (Sickle Moon + Spinning Slash animation would be cool, I'd name it Full Moon Slash ^^) and that "could" be the crit-hit WS people have been wanting. Scythe WS ... we have an HP return WS already, no need for another imo, BUT to equal out GS new WS I'd suggest Hell Scythe, 3 hit WS, and the animation would basically be 3 "Spinning Slash" in a row.. shouldn't be that hard, but those are just my dream WS that I'd make~ (tho honestly I don't see us getting any real WS to outshine Emp / Relic / Mythic). Our 2hr does seem a lil' underwhelming, but TBH 2hr aren't meant to be more than those things we use in the most dire of situations or as tactical tools, and ours is just that. I don't believe we should have Last Resort changed @ all, I heavily agreed in a prior post about an Impetus style JA that would fit DRK "Grim Fervor" I had originally thought it'd be an Att+ Def- w/ successful swings, but I see others views on survivability so id make it Att+ Def- on successful swings: occasionally convert dmg dealt into HP (% converted would increase on successful hits).. this would work on undead as well which has been a gripe for MANY DRK in the past, as they can Drain us, but we are 100% useless vs them AND I don't think it'd be TOO game breaking as there would probably be a % cap. This is all i really would suggest DRK to get, I don't see a great deal wrong w/ DRK atm other than it's not Abyssea Easy Mode friendly, but that solely depends on the DRK~ ~Fiory Janus Griever~

[Duzell]

An idea that just came to me is Venom Spikes, something that inflicts a poison that gets stronger each time a monster hits us. 1 hit 1/tic 2 hits 2/tic 3 hits 4/tic 4 hits 8/tic etc, just have it double each time and wear off if the monster doesn't hit us for a given period of time, say a minute.

[Rezeak]

I don't think DRK needs a pure DD type of magic we need magic that can augment our melee dmg there is already a few good examples of this...

Drain II ---> Souleater WS (pre abyssea)
It added some extra dmg but also made the hp it used not important unfortnatly now Drain II and souleater sux
Endark giving 50 attack
and Absorb-Tp

[Rayik]

DRK needs a complete overhaul at this point. I firmly believe SE doesn't know what they're doing with this job and are just tossing noodles at the wall, hoping something sticks. Between silly job traits like Tactical Parry(with our huge Parry skill), to getting 2 or 3 tp off of a spell that takes longer to cast than it takes to swing a scythe. Even our other job traits/abilities are like a poor man's dollar-store version of other jobs; Last Resort is like a neutered Berzerk, Diabolic Eye is a bad Aggressor clone, with the added bonus of costing merits and taking 15% of our HP away, etc. WTF is SE thinking?

The elemental spells we have serve no purpose, and the long casting times do more harm to us than good. It's pathetic. We have a higher skill rating in Elemental Magic than even RDM's, and they nuke circles around us. SE could up and remove all the elemental spells from the DRK spell list and I don't think anyone would miss them.

But, the biggest thing I see holding DRK back right now in the Abyssean Age, is that we bring nothing unique to the table. Anything DRK can do, some other job can do better. DRK can do good melee numbers, WAR does it better. DRK has a few debuffing spells, any other mage can do it better. Even Abyssea specific roles, other jobs do them better. WAR has more red procs. Mages have more yellow procs. BLU's at least have their own job-specific spell procs to offer. Maybe if Absorb spells became yellow procs?

Parties in Abyssea going after specific gear/atmas/etc don't want to settle for a dollar-store version of a jobthat can only proc a couple things, they only want the best job. My DRK only gets invites to xp parties just to fill up alliance space, my WAR gets invited to actually get stuff done. If DRK is ever going to shine again and be a worthwhile job, it needs something it can do that nobody else can. Given that the job was conceived as a hybrid of existing jobs, I don't see this happening.

Just give us a multi-hit, crit WS and call it a day.

[Kagato]

Just give us a multi-hit, crit WS and call it a day.

This would be nice but wouldn't solve any of the problems we, and even you, have listed.

Really, a great number of our problems can be fixed using 2 job abilities. Stances like Hasso and Seigan. One to fix all our Melee woes while nerfing magic, the other fixing all our magic woes while nerfing melee. Switch up when required.

After that, the rest is dependent on new Dark Magic spells. Curse, Plague, some sort of DD Dark Magic spell, new absorbs, ect. That will give us unique options that other jobs cant copy. Plague especially would be useful for NM fights. Samurai has it as a WS after effect, so why cant we have it as a Dark Magic spell? Curse would also be incredibly useful for faster kills and our own small form of Gravity for kiting if lowered HP and MP wouldn't work on NMs. However, pulling little monsters with Curse would make the fight go that much faster, letting us be more useful for exping.

Hell, even Zombie would be a good spell against enemies with Healing abilities to prevent them from healing themselves for a while. Perfect Dark Magic contender.

I don't see any other changes needed. Stances to fix what we currently have troubles with and new, unique spells to solidify our identity as Dark Knights and not Watered Down DD/Mage.

[Rayik]

This would be nice but wouldn't solve any of the problems we, and even you, have listed.

Really, a great number of our problems can be fixed using 2 job abilities. Stances like Hasso and Seigan. One to fix all our Melee woes while nerfing magic, the other fixing all our magic woes while nerfing melee. Switch up when required.

After that, the rest is dependent on new Dark Magic spells. Curse, Plague, some sort of DD Dark Magic spell, new absorbs, ect. That will give us unique options that other jobs cant copy. Plague especially would be useful for NM fights. Samurai has it as a WS after effect, so why cant we have it as a Dark Magic spell? Curse would also be incredibly useful for faster kills and our own small form of Gravity for kiting if lowered HP and MP wouldn't work on NMs. However, pulling little monsters with Curse would make the fight go that much faster, letting us be more useful for exping.

Hell, even Zombie would be a good spell against enemies with Healing abilities to prevent them from healing themselves for a while. Perfect Dark Magic contender.

I don't see any other changes needed. Stances to fix what we currently have troubles with and new, unique spells to solidify our identity as Dark Knights and not Watered Down DD/Mage.

I agree, I know just giving us a crit ws wouldn't "fix" the job, but at this point we're fooling ourselves if we think SE is going to go all out and give us the big list of new spells dealing Dark damage or whatnot. It'd be great if they did, and I really hope I'm wrong, but let's face it; DRK is not a new job. This job has been around for years, and SE has done more to F' it up than help it. I mean, really, was Absorb TP that powerful that it needed a nerf? Hell no. That was almost insulting.

I really like the idea of stances, like Hasso and Seigan. The rules of this game show you can't just toss nukes during melee, it just doesn't work. So maybe a stance that allows for near instant-casting of nukes, but maybe hits us with 15% Slow or something, I dunno, something like the polar opposite of Hasso.

[Ordoric]

Well being a magical class malee should only be HALF of our optimal dmg i like stances or give us and elemental/dark magic spesific fastcast, or dosomething with occult omen with cast time or something but lets not over power blm and sch <they have it to > i personaly like cast while fighting.

[JovialRat]

Hello fellow drks,

I like all the ideas you all are posting. Hopefully SE likes them too and impliments some of them.

I agree with we need tier two absorb spells, or just make the current ones more potent, no decay in numbers and shorter recast times.

I would like to have a native Refresh too, .... tbh all jobs that have mp should have it lol.,
also ( now this is gonna sound like i smoked something lol) how about giving drks native haste , say a 5% delay on Scythe or GS,

and of course make Guillotine or whichever WS critical ... its only fair most other ws has at least one. :D

[Cruentus]

GDI... i just typed a really long post just to have it erased cuz the site logged me out automatically... (i knew i shoulda copy-pasted first)

Anyways... here's my 2 cents:

1. I know people want to increase Last Resort's duration... but instead of going with with a mock Berserk... why not just add better job abilities/traits...going by it's name... it should be a LAST resort... not FIRST resort... and maybe if they DO buff it... make it stronger that Berserk... it IS the LAST resort after all... maybe add abilities something along the lines of buffing WS damage/crit rate/crit damage/haste/fast cast/recast reduction or some other stat that affects direct damage...

2. HP/MP/TP... DRK is known to be the job that specializes in sacrificing themselves to damage their foes... Going with that theme... why not take that to the next level... instead of just having Souleater... how about abilities that consume TP or MP to increase their damage (kinda like MP Attack in FFIX)... or maybe an ability to use HP/TP to cast spells... or an ability that consumes MP or HP to use/buff weapon skill... Also someone brought up the idea of having a trait that increases damage as HP goes down... Since most JA's tend to have a trade-off... DRK's trade off is health consumption... or maybe have some overpowered ability's side-effect to be a short weakened state...

3. After using up yourself and dealing all that damage...time for recovery... Since DRK also specializes in draining/absorbing as well... take that to the next level too... first of all... CHANGE THE 2 HOUR ABILITY!!!... DRG had its 2hr changed... why not DRK?... Blood weapon is powerful yes... but why not make the recast more readily available?... it'll be one the DRK's major arsenal as recovery from just ravaging that poor bluffalo with its HP consuming abilities... that being said... maybe the new 2hr should be something that makes your abilities (going from suggestion #2) not consume HP and be in the low-HP-high damage state without having HP be in that level... maybe also add more ways to drain/restore HP... not just with spells... or maybe some ability to restore HP with TP (kinda like Chivalry for HP... not so much a Curing Waltz)... also maybe have some ability that uses HP to recover MP (kind of like a self-use devotion not so much convert)... also... maybe also reduce enmity generation of these abilities... or maybe some ability that consumes HP/MP to reduce enmity... i just think its funny that other jobs get some defensive abilities... and DRK gets.. what... arcane circle?

4. Spells/Abilities... on top of the abilities suggested above... I agree with everyone about adding more absorb-stat spells and having no decay... What I don't agree with is being able to attack while casting... maybe... just reduce the casting times instead... 1 second or less... maybe along the lines of the length of a JA animation... i also agree about dark-type nukes maybe make them have some added effect as well (plague, virus, amnesia, def-down to arcana or some other non-elementally attached enfeeble) (always thought that Doomed-family ability "Abyss Blast" would be a good example for the dark spell)... dread spikes and endark are good ideas... maybe improve their effects a little... also maybe an ability that turns your weapon damage into dark elemental damage (ala formless strikes)...

5. Weapon skills... my idea would be some kind of AoE drain WS (kinda like blood drain... maybe magic damage based) instead/on top of the PAINFULLY DREADFUL infernal scythe... i mean... with all gear available to drk... it's still not gonna match other WS's in damage... might as well make it useful... Also, i agree with improving modifiers to WS... and maybe increase them at the 100 TP level... as far as a crit based WS... WS's shouldnt be a DRK's main source of high damage... HP-consuming abilities that improve every swing should be the focus IMO... strong enough that it the damage from every swing + WS damage would add up and be comparable to spike-damaged-RR-buffed-crit WS... example: maybe DRK can do 700-1k damage on a buffed critical hit :X... and maybe in brew mode... every DRK swing does 2k damage :X... i mean our main weapons isnt about fast hits... its about strong slow hits...

Gah... my mind is spent... im really pissed that the stuff i typed earlier got erased... now my train of thought is gone... and i might have missed some of the ideas i typed earlier... but hopefully these suggestions would pique ideas... im sure some would disagree.. but hey... this is my opinion...

I'd like to remind you that Last Resort's potency can exceed Berserk's starting with your first merit point upgrade into "Last Resort Effect." Thus, a longer duration's just fine.

Regarding your ideas on the Two-Hour Ability, how about we make this the new Two-Hour Ability, then give us Blood Weapon at level 30 or something, since it's really only good with Souleater?

Fell Weapon
Dark Knight's Main Two-Hour Ability
Duration: 1 minute
Critical hit rate doubles, all changes to HP are nullified while in effect (meaning you can't be healed, but you also can't be hurt, nor do you take damage over time from effects like Poison or Dia), your current level of Haste is doubled, ignoring the current Haste caps (i.e., you had 26% Haste in equipment, this would double to 52% Haste), and your attacks never miss. When this effect wears off, you instantly drop to 1 HP.

I think, regarding magic, we do need a second tier of Absorb spells. They should be at least twice as potent as our current ones, and without any decaying effect. Dread Spikes needs a major buff, too. Regarding weapon skills... Well, just giving the scythe and great sword a new weapon skill that can land critical hits would be just fine, especially if we earned it at a weapon skill level, rather than having to do a quest.

[Karuyag]

[QUOTE=Cruentus;69320]I'd like to remind you that Last Resort's potency can exceed Berserk's starting with your first merit point upgrade into "Last Resort Effect." Thus, a longer duration's just fine.

check wiki... LR's default is about 15%... merits add a total of 10% meaning it's pretty much equal to Berserk in effect ONLY after merits...

[Venrymel]

I'm not particularly dedicated to the development of DRK, but just in case, I thought I would post a link, to another useful thread on this very forum right here, in this very thread. It seemed the best choice.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5018-Dark-Knight-and-the-Dev-Team

おねがいします～＾＾

[Jar]

You guys do know that from a Melee damage standpoint DRK is one of the top DD in and outside of abyssea?

the only difference in damage between us and a war is WAR has better weaponskills (not empy) and they ONLY win inside abyssea with RR taking affect..

we dont need fukin berserk to cap PDIF.. and giving us super last resort would make us so overpowered....

If you want to keep up in abyssea on DRK you need to get one of the empy weaponskills.. just like to be a good WAR you need Ukko's and a good sam has Fudo.......... the WoE version even..

Stop askign for some crit weaponskill to be handed to you and go work and get a good weaponskill yourself..

[Quetzacoatl]

You guys do know that from a Melee damage standpoint DRK is one of the top DD in and outside of abyssea?

the only difference in damage between us and a war is WAR has better weaponskills (not empy) and they ONLY win inside abyssea with RR taking affect..

we dont need fukin berserk to cap PDIF.. and giving us super last resort would make us so overpowered....

If you want to keep up in abyssea on DRK you need to get one of the empy weaponskills.. just like to be a good WAR you need Ukko's and a good sam has Fudo.......... the WoE version even..

Stop askign for some crit weaponskill to be handed to you and go work and get a good weaponskill yourself..

a test that was made here (http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/20110/damage-calculator/) says otherwise about DRK being ahead in melee damage. There's no way to put it, we need a buff badly.

[Siiri]

Drk needs an empy weapon to stay equal with generic wars and mnks. The melee spreadsheet on another forum put drk 40% behind war in damage, both using empy weapons for comparison. You are fooling yourself if you think drk is anywhere equal. I hope enough info is being put out on forums. One of the longest job threads on the Japanese side is "do something about drk its obsolete, or similar to that.

[Jar]

a test that was made here (http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/20110/damage-calculator/) says otherwise about DRK being ahead in melee damage. There's no way to put it, we need a buff badly.

ill go with my Hundreds of parses over whatever they tested this with......................

[Kagato]

Lmao....

Rich.

[Jar]

Lmao....

Rich.

When you put ANYTHING that isnt just what your childish ass wants on here than you can laugh.. Also Ignore me agian

[Kagato]

a test that was made here (http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/20110/damage-calculator/) says otherwise about DRK being ahead in melee damage. There's no way to put it, we need a buff badly.

Never seen that program before. I'll have to mess with it a bit.

[Sedres]

Your own signature springs to mind, Jar. Do you have/have you already posted your own evidence to support your argument? Seeing as DRK was my first 75 (back in the day), I have to agree with everyone else who says DRK is in need of some adjustment love. We haven't received anything worth while, anything that's made a drastic improvement to the job since the 2h update, and even that back seated us to a lot of other 2h jobs.

[Jar]

Your own signature springs to mind, Jar. Do you have/have you already posted your own evidence to support your argument? Seeing as DRK was my first 75 (back in the day), I have to agree with everyone else who says DRK is in need of some adjustment love. We haven't received anything worth while, anything that's made a drastic improvement to the job since the 2h update, and even that back seated us to a lot of other 2h jobs.

Do you even have any other 2handed jobs leveled? anything that doesnt have a crit weaponskill is behind but asking for one is like asking for an empy weaponskill to be handed to us.

I have hours of parses on WAR SAM and DRK with very small gear differences that say DRK and SAM are about equal in all aspects(DRK alot more melee damage while sam tips to weaponskill damage) while war has about the same melee damage but way stronger weaponskills(ONLY inside abyssea).

I didnt use empy weaponskills or anything to test but from what i see DRK is not THAT far behind WAR and the only shortcoming atm is the crit weaponskill.

from this it seems obvius that DRK would need a crit weaponskill to DD like a WAR can but i dont think that should just be handed to us maybe making insurgency crit but im not even sure that wouldn't be above our current empy weaponskils inside abyssea.

[Rezeak]

Hmm from a melee standpoint i would of thought NIN and DNC then MNK would be up better than DRK

With NIN and DNC there can have a much larger overall delay reduction with both dual weild and haste i think DNC and NIN can excess 50% delay reduction overall meaning they attack at over double speed (without buffs).

With MNK I'd guess it was the top melee pple saw this coming with there larger dmg weapons with there base dmg also being increased by skill and also the cobination of martial arts and haste just making it crazy.

With WAR DRK and SAM i dunno really i mean DRK should beat SAM because of the higher DPS weapons and a much better af3+2 set bonus as for WAR vs DRK i dunno i would of guessed it would of been close since the jobs are both very similar WAR getting more double attack DRK getting Souleater and last resort haste ofc i see WARs drop off the melee vs DRK because alot of time they sub NIN and so they spend alot of time casting shadows.

Either way i'm not gonna call it but i would of thought NIN was the top melee cause of the higher amount of delay reduction it can hit solo if not then MNK.

Though it is worth noting that twilight scythe makes us the best melee DD on alot of mobs becuase of it's dmg type.

[Jar]

Hmm from a melee standpoint i would of thought NIN and DNC then MNK would be up better than DRK

With NIN and DNC there can have a much larger overall delay reduction with both dual weild and haste i think DNC and NIN can excess 50% delay reduction overall meaning they attack at over double speed (without buffs).

With MNK I'd guess it was the top melee pple saw this coming with there larger dmg weapons with there base dmg also being increased by skill and also the cobination of martial arts and haste just making it crazy.

With WAR DRK and SAM i dunno really i mean DRK should beat SAM because of the higher DPS weapons and a much better af3+2 set bonus as for WAR vs DRK i dunno i would of guessed it would of been close since the jobs are both very similar WAR getting more double attack DRK getting Souleater and last resort haste ofc i see WARs drop off the melee vs DRK because alot of time they sub NIN and so they spend alot of time casting shadows.

Either way i'm not gonna call it but i would of thought NIN was the top melee cause of the higher amount of delay reduction it can hit solo.

Though it is worth noting that twilight scythe makes us the best melee DD on alot of mobs becuase of it's dmg type.

I dont have nin or MNK to test but my nin friend most the time is a little above my DRK in melee but far below in weaponskill because a 2hander for the most part gets TP a lot faster.

[Gradd]

A good WAR, outside of abyssea will parse 10% higher than a good DRK. Retaliation alone is Broken.

Even at 75 a good WAR would wipe the floor with an Apoc DRK, and that says something x:

Edit:

I don't think DRK is bad outside abyssea at all, Caladbolg DRK is very strong outside of abyssea.

I always took pride at 75 being able to outparse 'better' jobs on DRK :x

I miss merit pts parsing was fun :(

[Kagato]

Though it is worth noting that twilight scythe makes us the best melee DD on alot of mobs becuase of it's dmg type.

That's only if Formless Strikes are even needed. Otherwise, just use Woeborn, Apoc or Redemption. The "Death" novelty wears off the moment you realize Endark cancels it out, leaving you with a scythe that's more situational than it is for full-time. Besides, Woeborn is 10x easier to get.

But when going against something strong against physical strikes, break out Twilight by all means.

[Quetzacoatl]

ill go with my Hundreds of parses over whatever they tested this with......................

Since when did parses EVER mean anything outside of Merit Parties?

[Jar]

A good WAR, outside of abyssea will parse 10% higher than a good DRK. Retaliation alone is Broken.

Even at 75 a good WAR would wipe the floor with an Apoc DRK, and that says something x:

Edit:

I don't think DRK is bad outside abyssea at all, Caladbolg DRK is very strong outside of abyssea.

I always took pride at 75 being able to outparse 'better' jobs on DRK :x

I miss merit pts parsing was fun :(

Why would the War have hate to get retaliation to even work.. <_<

wish there was a good war on my server.. i havn't lost a parse in months.. QQ

[Jar]

That's only if Formless Strikes are even needed. Otherwise, just use Woeborn, Apoc or Redemption. The "Death" novelty wears off the moment you realize Endark cancels it out, leaving you with a scythe that's more situational than it is for full-time. Besides, Woeborn is 10x easier to get.

But when going against something strong against physical strikes, break out Twilight by all means.

Go read what twilight actually does on wiki you'll notice that about 90% of the time twilight > Woeborn

[Kagato]

Go read what twilight actually does on wiki you'll notice that about 90% of the time twilight > Woeborn

You got the ">" backwards. Change it to < and you'll be correct, otherwise you're an idiot.

Woeborn has a stronger base damage, higher base delay making a 5-hit even easier, enhances Endark to deal even MORE damage, adds +7 Dark Magic Skill and +6 Strength.

Twilight Scythe has a kind of Formless Strikes and a Death effect that is canceled out by Endark, making it even weaker, and Death cant even work on NMs. The only reason to ever use this scythe for any reason is to use against mobs where the hidden effect will actually mean something, which is very situational.

So, what was that about Twilight being better again?

[Urteil]

Unless you're talking about PvP Twlight scythe is far from being better than the Woeborn in PvE situations.


I know that you aren't talking about PvP because well, you're all you.

[Jar]

You got the ">" backwards. Change it to < and you'll be correct, otherwise you're an idiot.

Woeborn has a stronger base damage, higher base delay making a 5-hit even easier, enhances Endark to deal even MORE damage, adds +7 Dark Magic Skill and +6 Strength.

Twilight Scythe has a kind of Formless Strikes and a Death effect that is canceled out by Endark, making it even weaker, and Death cant even work on NMs. The only reason to ever use this scythe for any reason is to use against mobs where the hidden effect will actually mean something, which is very situational.

So, what was that about Twilight being better again?


Hidden Effect: Deals damage that sets Damage Types modifiers to 1 on enemies. Bypasses "Physical Immunity" and "Physical Shield" effects. Will also Bypass some but not all "Physical absorb" effects.
^reason the base damage doesn't matter.^

also if you didnt notice endark is resisted by almost everything. I only keep it up for the ATTACK and 5.. attack < having the damage type mod changed

Edit and i just checked and twilight has a better DPS and will win when both are 5hit because of its lower delay.

[Urteil]

^reason the base damage doesn't matter.^

also if you didnt notice endark is resisted by almost everything. I only keep it up for the ATTACK and 5.. attack < having the damage type mod changed

Edit and i just checked and twilight has a better DPS and will win when both are 5hit because of its lower delay.

Base damage matters because during weapon skills the scythe does physical damage, not magical.

-What about mobs that are resistant to magical damage? There are very many bosses and VIP mobs that can mitigate magical damage just as mobs with high defense or -pdt can mitigate the damage from a non twilight scythe.


-The scythe has higher base damage, and bolsters endark giving you MORE ATTTACK, which is why you USE ENDARK. Not to mention having the side effect of bolstering the minimal utility we have in making all our dark magic more accurate drains/stuns.'

-You are giving up a+70~ attack with woeborn on as a self buff, for a very very very low and random % proc, even on trash mobs, in a PVE SITUATION.

Which helps boost WS damage greatly, and helps cap your melee damage on monsters where otherwise it would be the fevered dream of a madman.

Are you sure this isn't a Ballista discussion because thats the only way I could see somebody championing Twilight scythe over a weapon with higher base damage that buffs endark.

The death effect doesn't proc on anything worth a shit, only on weak mobs its a gimmick weapon, plain and simple.

I bet you're one of those DRK's with Twilight scythe and some perle pieces, who just want to believe that Twilight is the end all. You're a damn fool.

[Gradd]

I bet you're one of those DRK's with Twilight scythe and some perle pieces, who just want to believe that Twilight is the end all. You're a damn fool.

If you wanna make personal attacks on gear you should police your own first, lose the Mythril Grip +1.

Jars DRK isnt the best but he isnt a perle DRK I can say that much he has +2 body, and the rest of his +1, I am sure it wont be long till he is rocking the rest of his +2.

[Urteil]

Oh you caught me testing a grip my bad, you probably need to stop using FFXIAH as a means to attack people and get a new venue to do so, it doesn't update at the quickest of speeds.

I was seeing just how high my VIT could get for fun but when combined with the other dbl% gear of course the pole grip wins.


The condescending statement was based on his attitude about Endark which is rediculous and I brought his gear into it because what is he going to do? Tell me more stupid crap about how endark is retarded? I probably shouldn't have brought gear into it, oh shucks!


That Jelly ring looks real nice man, real nice,that slow +5% gear which I'm sure you're TPing in. RIGHT? RIGHT?

Back to reality. . . because that was riddled with sarcasm and I know you aren't doing any of that because I have read your posts.

I have a fancy pole grip too, real hard to get. . .(more sarscam) I main it 99% of the time. Its pretty much the best grip for pretty much everything PvE related, on that note - Kick fucking ass Jelly ring man.


Next are you going to see me in my Ballista gear which I idle in sometimes whilst standing in Jeuno and say something retarded like "lol lose the reign grip man, its bad for TP."





Don't defend him.

What he said was pants on head retarded, and if all you have against me is some type of gear argument you've already lost.

Regardless Gradd I have immense respect for you, don't let some kind of buddy buddy feeling get in the way of logic.

[Gradd]

I honestly just skimmed through it, I don't care about either scythe, all I really read was you bashing his gear <.<

Carry On!

[Urteil]

I don't really care about either scythe either.

Why am I even posting here.

[Gradd]

Caladbolg for normal stuff! Bahamut Zaghnal for !! procs!

[Urteil]

I've been using the 2-4 magian scythe for proc !!, and /dnc shenanigans on DRK. Its sort of cool if you run an infernal scythe build with cosmos/ultimate/hell's guardian or are soloing, because endark gets to 90+ a swing (I don't think the bonus from cosmos affects attack.) NV Drain II gets to about 1200+

With infernal scythe doing 2200+ on normal mobs, sometimes you get about 70% tp an attack round, and 300+ endark damage.

But I've been using the MDB scythe on some low man magic intensive shit where I know I can keep hate with shit guillotine.

Caladbolg just poops on anything 'normal'. Sort of gross how inferior it makes everything else.

[Cruentus]

I'd like to remind you that Last Resort's potency can exceed Berserk's starting with your first merit point upgrade into "Last Resort Effect." Thus, a longer duration's just fine.

check wiki... LR's default is about 15%... merits add a total of 10% meaning it's pretty much equal to Berserk in effect ONLY after merits...

In terms of overall effectiveness, yeah. I was pointing solely at potency while it was in effect, in which case Last Resort with even one merit in LR Effect makes it beat Berserk.


Do you even have any other 2handed jobs leveled? anything that doesnt have a crit weaponskill is behind but asking for one is like asking for an empy weaponskill to be handed to us.

I have hours of parses on WAR SAM and DRK with very small gear differences that say DRK and SAM are about equal in all aspects(DRK alot more melee damage while sam tips to weaponskill damage) while war has about the same melee damage but way stronger weaponskills(ONLY inside abyssea).

I didnt use empy weaponskills or anything to test but from what i see DRK is not THAT far behind WAR and the only shortcoming atm is the crit weaponskill.

from this it seems obvius that DRK would need a crit weaponskill to DD like a WAR can but i dont think that should just be handed to us maybe making insurgency crit but im not even sure that wouldn't be above our current empy weaponskils inside abyssea.

First you claim you can outpace most melee jobs, then...


Why would the War have hate to get retaliation to even work.. <_<

wish there was a good war on my server.. i havn't lost a parse in months.. QQ

...this. You shouldn't brag about your parses when you aren't up against good players. It makes you look like retarded trash. Just saying.


The condescending statement was based on his attitude about Endark which is rediculous and I brought his gear into it because what is he going to do? Tell me more stupid crap about how endark is retarded? I probably shouldn't have brought gear into it, oh shucks!

You should check this out. (http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/)

[Rayik]

No wonder SE won't give DRK a good update; we're all assholes.

[vedder]

LMAO rayik best post in past three pages !

[Sedres]

Yeah, it's kind of hard for ME to take this topic seriously anymore, nevermind some SE developer.

If anyone feels DRK doesn't need an update, why post in here, in fact, why post in here when you're THE ONLY ONE HERE that shares your point of view? I think we all know the answer there.

So, we have:
*melee/magic stances (but for the Love of All that is Holy stop suggesting the magic stance should Gimp melee or we would never use it)
*abs-STAT spells for !!

[Sedres]

And can't edit post, but yeah, some kind of WS or ja that makes up for our lack of crit WS (giving us a cit WS seems kinda half arsed, I think making razed ruin affect all aspects of melee physical damage regardless if its in the WS description or not would be simpler. Those without a frog WS would spike higher, those with a cit WS would spike more often.

[Jar]

Yeah, it's kind of hard for ME to take this topic seriously anymore, nevermind some SE developer.

If anyone feels DRK doesn't need an update, why post in here, in fact, why post in here when you're THE ONLY ONE HERE that shares your point of view? I think we all know the answer there.

So, we have:
*melee/magic stances (but for the Love of All that is Holy stop suggesting the magic stance should Gimp melee or we would never use it)
*abs-STAT spells for !!

i think DRK should get a buff <_< i just dont like any of the ideas posted




also i parse against myself.. reason i only said i know about WAR and SAM.

Also twilight beats woeborn because most monsters have a .876 damage type mod for slashing and twilight makes that 1.0 for melee +3 DMG also doesnt bump FsTR so its not going to beat out +13.4% melee damage ....... a good rule of thumb tho is that if a mob type is weak to any other type of damage it takes .876 slashing for the most part.

[Dart]

I just don't see the reasoning behind all this hatred toward a crit based ws for drk's main weapons. There's a very simple reason why a widowmaker/properly geared war trashes basically everything (including most relics/empy's)

Raging Rush was a lackluster ws for years upon years, now its one of the more universally powerful ws in the game. What's the problem with doing the same thing with guillotine?

I just don't get it :/

[Kagato]

A crit weaponskill would be nice but that's not the big problem with Dark Knight right now. It's our melee, survival and magic prowess overall. We lack power in all three categories which makes us looked over. We just need them to tip the scale a little bit more. Fix what we already have and leave anything "new" to be bonus, useful spells. Spells only Dark Knights can have.

[RaenRyong]

Also twilight beats woeborn because most monsters have a .876 damage type mod for slashing and twilight makes that 1.0 for melee +3 DMG also doesnt bump FsTR so its not going to beat out +13.4% melee damage ....... a good rule of thumb tho is that if a mob type is weak to any other type of damage it takes .876 slashing for the most part.

Skeletons, Slimes, Ghosts, Flans, Elementals, Rocs, Mimics

are the only ones this applies to. Woeborn is the much better weapon overall.

[Rezeak]

Just have Twilight and Woeborn.
Tho if i had to pick one i'd choose twilight maybe it isn't the best dmg wise (i'm sure a death proc killing a 2-4k hp mob would make up for the lower dmg) but it's just it offers a dmg type that is never resisted and therefore is more useful overall but like i said just use both :P .

Tho i use Twilight, Def down scythe (129 DMG -15% def down procs), and the OAT scythe.

There are a few mobs that absorb melee dmg twilight bypasses that so thats why i always carry it.

[Jar]

Skeletons, Slimes, Ghosts, Flans, Elementals, Rocs, Mimics

are the only ones this applies to. Woeborn is the much better weapon overall.

a good rule of thumb tho is that if a mob type is weak to any other type of damage it takes .876 slashing for the most part.


its more than just the KNOWN this is something not alot of ppl have really tested beyond the obvious +25% or -50%

[Metalgod]

Been reading thru the thread and I like alot of the suggestions put out there. The one on different Stances melee/magic: I had this in mind for it.

LvL 40 Arcane Warrior -- lasts 5 mins, ability recast 1 min (2hd weapon only)

Positive effects:
Critical attack rate increase 15%
Critical attack damage increase 10%
Accuracy +15
Weapon delay -10%

Negative effects:
magic casting delay +15%
magic recasting delay +15%
magic accuracy -10

LvL 40 Arcane Warlock -- lasts 5 mins, ability recast 1 min (2hd weapon only)

Positive effects:
magic casting delay -15%
magic recasting delay -15%
magic accuracy +10
Magic attack bonus +10

Negative effects:
Accuracy -15
Weapon delay +10%

Also I'm thinking these should be DRK exclusive abilities and not available as a subjob.

[Metalgod]

Here is more idea's for overall DRK tweaks:

New 2hr - Odin's Wrath (working name): Instant - Next melee attack will deal 5 times normal damage and inflict 10 second Terror effect. Ability will generate alot of Enmity.

LvL 15 Last Resort - Make it last 1 min and add Critical attack rate increase to it

LvL 30 Blood Weapon - Make it last 1 min, ability recast 10 mins

LvL 60 Arcane Transfer - Lasts until next Absorb spell is cast, ability recast 10 mins
Share Enhancement of next absorb spell with party members. Works with all absorb-X spells not DRAIN/ASPIR.
So if you absord +7 str from the monster, all party members get +7 str bonus. Works with ACC and TP also.

[Jar]

Been reading thru the thread and I like alot of the suggestions put out there. The one on different Stances melee/magic: I had this in mind for it.

LvL 40 Arcane Warrior -- lasts 5 mins, ability recast 1 min (2hd weapon only)

Positive effects:
Critical attack rate increase 15%
Critical attack damage increase 10%
Accuracy +15
Job ability haste +10%

LvL 40 Arcane Warlock -- lasts 5 mins, ability recast 1 min (2hd weapon only)

Positive effects:
magic casting delay -15%
magic recasting delay -15%
magic accuracy +50
Magic attack bonus +100




Also I'm thinking these should be DRK exclusive abilities and not available as a subjob.

fixed that into something that would be worthwhile begging for.

[RaenRyong]

a good rule of thumb tho is that if a mob type is weak to any other type of damage it takes .876 slashing for the most part.


its more than just the KNOWN this is something not alot of ppl have really tested beyond the obvious +25% or -50%

We can only base on what we've known. Aside from the above, no others have any KNOWN resistances.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Top 10 Requests from Dark Knights

Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/3637-Your-top-5-DRK-Adjustment-Requests-Sister-thread-to-the-Official-Adjustment-Topic

10. N/A

9. Strengthen or Parry Skill (4 votes)
-Having an Ability called "Tactical Parry" when we have a low Parry Skill isn't very effective.
-Many would prefer a minimum of a B- in Parry skill.

8) Melee while Casting (9 votes)
-A native trait to Dark Knights to allow us to still inflict Melee damage while casting a spell.

7. 2-Hour Ability Changes (11 votes)
-Make Blood Weapon last longer. Or...
-Change Blood Weapon to a 15-minute recast Job Ability and give us a new 2-hour ability completely.

6. "Stances" added to Dark Knight (17 votes)
-Easy to switch between stances.
-Magical Stance for more effective and stronger magical spells.
-Melee stance to deal more effective melee damage.

5. Shortened Dark Magic casting times. (19 votes)
-Preferred if this was a Dark Knight exclusive.
-Would give more use to casting Absorb Spells mid-battle.

4. Strengthened Job Abilities and Traits. (23 Votes)
-Adjustments to make Occult Acumen stronger by using more tiers of the trait based on level or change it to be affected by casting time instead of MP or Damage dealt.
-Changes to Souleater to be more useful to use full time rather than being completely situational and rare to use.

3. New, stronger Dark Magic Absorbs and Spells. (34 votes)
-Absord SPD (speed) is a popular request. Gives DRK Haste while giving the enemy Slow.
-Slower Decay on Absorbs is another popular request.
-New spells to inflict new enfeebles, such as Terrorize, Curse, Doom or Death.

2. Weapon Skill Changes (36 votes)
-New weapon skill entirely to deal Critical Damage and compete with other powerful weapon skills. Or...
-Changes to current Weapon Skills, such as Guillotine or Quietus, to deal critical damage or have stronger modifiers that DRKs normally use, with more focus on STR and DEX instead of INT and MND.

And currently, the #1 Request from Dark Knight players, with a total of 55 votes is:

Increase Duration of Last Resort.
Preferred Time: 2-3 Minutes
Some are willing to have Desperate Blows adjusted to achieve this if a balancing issue will arise.Nothing like complainer DRKs complaining. A lot of the stuff in this thread are lies or half truths perpetuated by DRKs for DRKs. I mean realy. Every DRK I see is one shotting the same mobs that everyone else with these "more powerful" WS are only doing 20-80%. I've learned that most people simply need to re-evaluate their play style in this new age, finding thier own shortcomings instead of blaming nonbroken game balance. Also the post I quoted, all of the votes therein are biased examples.

[Jar]

Nothing like complainer DRKs complaining. A lot of the stuff in this thread are lies or half truths perpetuated by DRKs for DRKs. I mean realy. Every DRK I see is one shotting the same mobs that everyone else with these "more powerful" WS are only doing 20-80%. I've learned that most people simply need to re-evaluate their play style in this new age, finding thier own shortcomings instead of blaming nonbroken game balance. Also the post I quoted, all of the votes therein are biased examples.
^ This ^ 100%

[Urteil]

Nothing like complainer DRKs complaining. A lot of the stuff in this thread are lies or half truths perpetuated by DRKs for DRKs. I mean realy. Every DRK I see is one shotting the same mobs that everyone else with these "more powerful" WS are only doing 20-80%. I've learned that most people simply need to re-evaluate their play style in this new age, finding thier own shortcomings instead of blaming nonbroken game balance. Also the post I quoted, all of the votes therein are biased examples.


My response is Blue Mage. LOOK AT THEM.

Anyone can one shot a lot of mobs, trash mobs, EP, DC? Yea I can do that, I could do that with an Axe, with Guillotine, and I can with Lv.90 Caladbolg!

And your using Abyssea to make such a bold claim, when abyssea basically means "Oh I have a crit WS +60% more free damage please!" Nothing makes sense in Abyssea and if anyone with half a brain is using a Crit WS they are going to piss all over Torcleaver or anything DRK can bring to the table. All Torcleaver does is give me a huge step forward in being on the same damn board as far as damage is concerned, it definitely doesn't put me anywhere near I need to be considering the rest of the shit my job lacks:

Survivability
Utility
Self-Sufficiency


Anyone can one shot trash mobs, how is that even an argument?. . .


And even if the above is true, look at job like Dancer and Ninja that can solo things and tank, and be self sufficient. . .what can we do? Do lackluster damage and then subsequently die, because we have no defensive abilities of our own? Or damage that really makes up for a lack of survivability?

And when every Dark Knight thought they saw the end of the tunnel, the light that would give us some meaning and way to rise above it all, when we all thought "OH SHIT THIS CAN'T GET ANY WORSE". We got a Circle II ability and [DRUM ROLL] -

Tactical Parry. . . and you have the audacity and lack of common sense to say that our malady is that we suffer because of personal shortcomings, and can't use our job right?

. . . . Are you for fucking real?

And if you want people to take your argument about the removal of PS2 Limitations seriously, get rid of the stupid Prishe Chibi and post it in a manner that anyone over the age of 12 and who isn't a pedophile will take into consideration.

[RaenRyong]

Nothing like complainer DRKs complaining. A lot of the stuff in this thread are lies or half truths perpetuated by DRKs for DRKs. I mean realy. Every DRK I see is one shotting the same mobs that everyone else with these "more powerful" WS are only doing 20-80%. I've learned that most people simply need to re-evaluate their play style in this new age, finding thier own shortcomings instead of blaming nonbroken game balance. Also the post I quoted, all of the votes therein are biased examples.

Show me examples of good DRKs and I'll prove mathematically that they will get destroyed! I loved DRK and back at 75, it was simply an underdog - less appreciated than WAR and SAM but more than capable of pulling its weight. Nowadays though, it is simply terrible. I mean granted my other DDs are all excellent but my DRK isn't awful (capped Haste 5hit etc) and it still gets eaten alive.

[Jar]

My response is Blue Mage. LOOK AT THEM.

Anyone can one shot a lot of mobs, trash mobs, EP, DC? Yea I can do that, I could do that with an Axe, with Guillotine, and I can with Lv.90 Caladbolg!

And your using Abyssea to make such a bold claim, when abyssea basically means "Oh I have a crit WS +60% more free damage please!" Nothing makes sense in Abyssea and if anyone with half a brain is using a Crit WS they are going to piss all over Torcleaver or anything DRK can bring to the table. All Torcleaver does is give me a huge step forward in being on the same damn board as far as damage is concerned, it definitely doesn't put me anywhere near I need to be considering the rest of the shit my job lacks:

Survivability
Utility
Self-Sufficiency


Anyone can one shot trash mobs, how is that even an argument?. . .


And even if the above is true, look at job like Dancer and Ninja that can solo things and tank, and be self sufficient. . .what can we do? Do lackluster damage and then subsequently die, because we have no defensive abilities of our own? Or damage that really makes up for a lack of survivability?

And when every Dark Knight thought they saw the end of the tunnel, the light that would give us some meaning and way to rise above it all, when we all thought "OH SHIT THIS CAN'T GET ANY WORSE". We got a Circle II ability and [DRUM ROLL] -

Tactical Parry. . . and you have the audacity and lack of common sense to say that our malady is that we suffer because of personal shortcomings, and can't use our job right?

. . . . Are you for fucking real?

And if you want people to take your argument about the removal of PS2 Limitations seriously, get rid of the stupid Prishe Chibi and post it in a manner that anyone over the age of 12 and who isn't a pedophile will take into consideration.

No 2 handed DD other than drg/mage has very much survivability.. fuck war gets NOTHING but defender and that hardly does anything.....

you wana solo like a blu or nin fuckin level blu or nin.

[Kagato]

Nothing like complainer DRKs complaining. A lot of the stuff in this thread are lies or half truths perpetuated by DRKs for DRKs. I mean realy. Every DRK I see is one shotting the same mobs that everyone else with these "more powerful" WS are only doing 20-80%. I've learned that most people simply need to re-evaluate their play style in this new age, finding thier own shortcomings instead of blaming nonbroken game balance. Also the post I quoted, all of the votes therein are biased examples.

Yay! Another person who doesn't know anything about DRK. What a freaking surprise.

No. I don't want to hear about how your DRK is level 90 with super pro gear or that you claim you know how the game works, therefore your opinion is completely justified. I assure you, it's not.

Also, learn how to correctly use the word "bias" without turning into captain obvious. Voting for something is showing bias toward the thing you're voting for. So of course there's bias, just as you are showing bias toward being against DRK's requests.


^ This ^ 100%

That goes double for you, Mr. Twilight > Woeborn. *rolls eyes*


This is KillingIfrit.com all over again.

[Urteil]

No 2 handed DD other than drg/mage has very much survivability.. fuck war gets NOTHING but defender and that hardly does anything.....

you wana solo like a blu or nin fuckin level blu or nin.


War has defender a native ability to increase their survivability or berserk to raise/ lower offense as situations arise, and can then bolster their survivability with a sub job NIN BLU PLD whatever floats your boat, while having a native defensive ability.

Defender is +25% defense which can become absurd when paired with cocoon or other defensive abilities or food.

When did +25% become nothing? Are you unable to understand basic numerals in mathematical context?

Not to mention that Warrior has retaliate which gives them a HUGE benefit for just getting smacked and taking damage, where we have nothing magical or martial that can even hold a candle.


Samurai has amazing survivability with A- parrying, B+ evasion and Seigan/Third Eye NATIVELY to their job, which they can then use a sub job to bolster their survivability. You should probably go Wiki before you come in here with stupid.

There's only 4 two handed melee DD's really, DRK WAR SAM and DRG. All of which besides Dark Knight have added survivability natively.

[Kagato]

But let's not forget Dread Spikes!

Oh wait. Thats a spell that only lasts for 50/75% our total HP, has a horribly long casting time, has a horribly long recast time, has a horribly high MP cost, and is our ONLY native survival skill outside of drains, which suffer the same problems as Dread Spikes.

So...yeah. We have nothing compared to the rest.

Oh, and no one better bring up Apocalypse. Having a relic to assure even more survival that other jobs have natively is crazy.

[Jar]

War has defender a native ability to increase their survivability or berserk to raise/ lower offense as situations arise, and can then bolster their survivability with a sub job NIN BLU PLD whatever floats your boat, while having a native defensive ability.

Defender is +25% defense which can become absurd when paired with cocoon or other defensive abilities or food.

When did +25% become nothing? Are you unable to understand basic numerals in mathematical context?

Not to mention that Warrior has retaliate which gives them a HUGE benefit for just getting smacked and taking damage, where we have nothing magical or martial that can even hold a candle.


Samurai has amazing survivability with A- parrying, B+ evasion and Seigan/Third Eye NATIVELY to their job, which they can then use a sub job to bolster their survivability. You should probably go Wiki before you come in here with stupid.

There's only 4 two handed melee DD's really, DRK WAR SAM and DRG. All of which besides Dark Knight have added survivability natively.


i have SAM DRK and WAR and if im goingto solo i would 100% go as DRK.

dread spikes when gear correctly is way better than 3rd eye and seigan and defender what is this 2005? defense does almost nothing.....

and you think because they have b+ eva that they have EVA gear to support it? thfs and nin can get +100~ eva a sam is lucky to get +50 and parry never procs..

[Urteil]

There's a lot of EVA gear for nearly every job.

What gear is there for Dread Spikes +2 AF body? Its still 1 minute only at 75% hp which most mobs rip through quickly. Yea I switch to a full PDT set with Dread Spikes up if I'm getting beat on, but the recast kills it, the duration too.



VIT + DEF + PDT is an amazing thing.

Samurai has access to defensive skills and has high ranks in them, they also have some of the best PDT in the game, with Seigan / Third eye.

You're pants on head retarded bro.

[Afrohatch]

There's a lot of EVA gear for nearly every job.

What gear is there for Dread Spikes +2 AF body?

HP gear says hi

So in this thread we have people using defender as a reason WAR has more survivability over DRK which is quite absurd lol, DRK can wear PDT gear, can use the same atmas WAR uses, etcetc

And when has anyone relied on parry? It's pretty much still not understood after all these years, RNG has no native parrying skill but still parries almost as much as a NIN. Yeah, I agree, DRK having tactical parry seems like something SE just kind of tacked on randomly to DRK, but the added survivability from and E skill parry and an A skill parry would be negligible.

Basically, DRK really is not broken at all or needs to be fixed. Sure, it takes good gear to excel at it, which I'm hoping people making these suggestions are trying to do, but srsly, re-evaluate your playstyle before you jump the gun and scream for a job to be "fixed". Job fixing threads should be in the PLD and SCH forums, not the DRK.

[Urteil]

The argument was about defender being a very viable defensive ability, because of this it does have more survivability.

[Kagato]

Basically, DRK really is not broken at all or needs to be fixed. Sure, it takes good gear to excel at it, which I'm hoping people making these suggestions are trying to do, but srsly, re-evaluate your playstyle before you jump the gun and scream for a job to be "fixed". Job fixing threads should be in the PLD and SCH forums, not the DRK.

You basically just now proved you know nothing about DRK.

[Jar]

There's a lot of EVA gear for nearly every job.

What gear is there for Dread Spikes +2 AF body?

HP gear and haste gear .................................................................................................................... i sit with recast at 2min most the time and have 3500+ HP when i cast in abyssea... your telling me a mob does 2300+ damage to you in less than a min? fuck you melee nude too ? thers your problem with drk..

[Jar]

The argument was about defender being a very viable defensive ability, because of this it does have more survivability.

totally going to survive that thundaga IV coming at it with defender up ehh?

[Jar]

You basically just now proved you know nothing about DRK.
YOU know nothing about DRK...............

[Xsilver]

Drks have the better soloing power than war and sam, even though on harder hitting nms sam have a good pdt set, drk can still defend itself well with stuns drains etc. Also my dread spikes macro gives me 614 more hp +bale cuirass outside of abyss, a bit higher within. Inside of abyss drk is for sure is the weaker DD, but outside it is still a beast (but close to sam outside of emps). Since the next update will not be in abyss drk will be fine. Perhaps it is ok that drk not be as useful inside of abyss, certain jobs have always been more useful than others in different situations, but I def. dont like the idea of giving drks a crit hit ws just to be like everyone else.

[Afrohatch]

You basically just now proved you know nothing about DRK.

How do I prove I know something about DRK? Make *** thread after *** thread about how it needs to be fixed?

[Sedres]

The argument that war is more sturdy is from war not having to sacrifice any of its melee buffs for a better subjob. Our only real options for a survival subjob are nin and sam, nin offers nothing for DRK and Sam cripples our magic, taking away our own native albeit useless survival abilities.

Also, losing 2.3k HP in abyssea is ridiculously easy. And why make an argument that defender isn't going to save you from a magic nuke when dread spijes isn't going to do jack either? Anyway, that's enough attention wasted.

I think we should move away from this petty crap and start to develop the ideas we've come up with, make SE's life easier. For example, I don't agree that these stance ideas should hinder our magic or melee, instead they should buff one aspect of the job or another. These following ideas are simple off the top of my head, anyone complaining they'd make the job over powered should take their time to read the post for what it Is.

Stance 1 last resort based:
Shorten recast time OR increase duration (desperate blows stays at 30sec)
Atk regen to 100% tp or tp bonus (complement scythe/great sword respectively)

Stance 2 soul eater based: (doesn't require souleater active)
Gives quick cast to dark magic and shortened recast
Adds 10% mp to souleater along with 10% HP.

Etc.

[Afrohatch]

Also, losing 2.3k HP in abyssea is ridiculously easy. And why make an argument that defender isn't going to save you from a magic nuke when dread spijes isn't going to do jack either?


Stun, weapon bash, drain, drain 2, nether void, dread spikes

versus

Defender

[Returner]

Stun, weapon bash, drain, drain 2, nether void, dread spikes

versus

Retaliation

Fixed for you.

Also, if you think stun the mob + weapon bash will safe you from a mob killing you, think twice. While you stopped their moves for 2 sec, you are not doing any damage in those 2 sec either, once they are out of stun they can continue to rip your face off. And no, drain for 350, drain II for 500, and if you want to add neither void drain II for 1k ok, still not going to safe you and you are most likely going to get interrupted casting with /sam. You are almost better off to just try to kill the mob before it kills you, which is why retaliation is so amazingly broken. Dread spikes is cool but it doesn't stop TP move.

You are missing the whole point, whenever you are casting you are crippling your melee damage, and that's why the job fails. The magic and melee aren't synergy but a counter productive action to each other, the biggest flaw of the job of DRK.

[Kagato]

Fixed for you.

Also, if you think stun the mob + weapon bash will safe you from a mob killing you, think twice. While you stopped their moves for 2 sec, you are not doing any damage in those 2 sec either, once they are out of stun they can continue to rip your face off. And no, drain for 350, drain II for 500, and if you want to add neither void drain II for 1k ok, still not going to safe you and you are most likely going to get interrupted casting with /sam. You are almost better off to just try to kill the mob before it kills you, which is why retaliation is so amazingly broken. Dread spikes is cool but it doesn't stop TP move.

You are missing the whole point, whenever you are casting you are crippling your melee damage, and that's why the job fails. The magic and melee aren't synergy but a counter productive action to each other, the biggest flaw of the job of DRK.

Nameless, there's a reason I like you so much. You actually know what you're talking about and have been for years.

Here's a +1 "Like" for your post.

[Jar]

Fixed for you.

Also, if you think stun the mob + weapon bash will safe you from a mob killing you, think twice. While you stopped their moves for 2 sec, you are not doing any damage in those 2 sec either, once they are out of stun they can continue to rip your face off. And no, drain for 350, drain II for 500, and if you want to add neither void drain II for 1k ok, still not going to safe you and you are most likely going to get interrupted casting with /sam. You are almost better off to just try to kill the mob before it kills you, which is why retaliation is so amazingly broken. Dread spikes is cool but it doesn't stop TP move.

You are missing the whole point, whenever you are casting you are crippling your melee damage, and that's why the job fails. The magic and melee aren't synergy but a counter productive action to each other, the biggest flaw of the job of DRK.

You changed the subject from survivability to raw damage power .....................

you are really going to say because able to kill a mob faster means there more defensive now?

fuck souleater for 3 hits will take hate off you and make retaliation worthless.... and once enmity caps unless your fucking duo your not going to keep hate anyway.

sure retaliation is broken when you have hate or when your fell cleaving but it wont top dread spikes when used right................... hell you think mobs with high tier magic and TP moves are not worth even stuning for the 2 sec delay? get real...

also almost nothing can interrupt a DRK with 415+ darkmagic skill.......

[Cruentus]

I see this thread has gone to pot.

Personally, I take pride in being a dark knight. I really do. And then idiots like Jar, Afrohatch, and Tsukino_Kaji come in and do their absolute best to destroy any hope we have of actually GETTING SHIT DONE TO FIX THE GOD DAMN JOB.

I mean, seriously, if you were a developer, and you saw how badly this thread has fallen, would you want to even bother with fixing the job? Probably not, because all human beings tend to see is the negative side of things. All the developer's going to pay any attention to is how everyone's arguing with everyone, all the name-calling, and all the retarded, asinine, and downright stupid ideas that would only make the job even more horrible than it already is. And, as a result, they'd do nothing but laugh at how stupid we all look. I wonder why else we'd get Tactical freaking Parry.

I've had enough. I have had it up to HERE with this thread, nay, this entire forum going down the toilet, all because people don't know what the bloody hell they're talking about, and get all defensive and loud-mouthed about it out of a fear of being incorrect.

Learn from your mistakes, do some research, take basic algebra, and then MAYBE you'll be in a position to give suggestions, you three. And this goes for everyone who agrees with them as well.

[Afrohatch]

I tried being nice and gave my opinion about DRK, and asshats called me out, saying I know nothing about DRK lul. DRK is not broken, you're probably just terrible at playing it. I do agree it would be nice to see some improvements to scythe WS, but I get by with Torcleaver. Suck less plz.

Inc QQing~!

[Kagato]

I see this thread has gone to pot.

Personally, I take pride in being a dark knight. I really do. And then idiots like Jar, Afrohatch, and Tsukino_Kaji come in and do their absolute best to destroy any hope we have of actually GETTING SHIT DONE TO FIX THE GOD DAMN JOB.

I mean, seriously, if you were a developer, and you saw how badly this thread has fallen, would you want to even bother with fixing the job? Probably not, because all human beings tend to see is the negative side of things. All the developer's going to pay any attention to is how everyone's arguing with everyone, all the name-calling, and all the retarded, asinine, and downright stupid ideas that would only make the job even more horrible than it already is. And, as a result, they'd do nothing but laugh at how stupid we all look. I wonder why else we'd get Tactical freaking Parry.

I've had enough. I have had it up to HERE with this thread, nay, this entire forum going down the toilet, all because people don't know what the bloody hell they're talking about, and get all defensive and loud-mouthed about it out of a fear of being incorrect.

Learn from your mistakes, do some research, take basic algebra, and then MAYBE you'll be in a position to give suggestions, you three. And this goes for everyone who agrees with them as well.

I wouldn't worry about it. The only people that agree with those 3 you listed are themselves and the occasional misinformed person every now and then. Most people completely disagree with them on almost everything. This topic still has the support of many top DRKs and several other DRK mains who feel there's some changes that need to be made.

[Gradd]

DRK will never have hate against a good WAR period. Not unless you are rocking a Caladbolg against a non empyrean WAR. WAR has a much higher Double attack rate and Raging Rush completely rips Guillotine to shreds in terms of damage outside of abyssea. If were talking Ukon WAR then DRK doesnt even hold a candle.

WAR has sooooooooooo much going for it, even at 75 a good WAR would make an Apoc DRK look bad.

[Anathiel]

Also, if you think stun the mob + weapon bash will safe you from a mob killing you, think twice. While you stopped their moves for 2 sec, you are not doing any damage in those 2 sec either, once they are out of stun they can continue to rip your face off. And no, drain for 350, drain II for 500, and if you want to add neither void drain II for 1k ok, still not going to safe you and you are most likely going to get interrupted casting with /sam. You are almost better off to just try to kill the mob before it kills you, which is why retaliation is so amazingly broken. Dread spikes is cool but it doesn't stop TP move.

You are missing the whole point, whenever you are casting you are crippling your melee damage, and that's why the job fails. The magic and melee aren't synergy but a counter productive action to each other, the biggest flaw of the job of DRK.

Wow, this sums up exactly how I've felt about the job since I first became a DRK. Hit the nail on the head.

[Afrohatch]

So what we're saying is DRK is second place to WAR in the world of 2handed DD?

[Nariont]

I think in the "world of 2handed DD" DRK's somewhere around 3rd/4th. WAR > DRG > SAM<>DRK in order of greatest to weakest, drg might just beat war if both arent using emps, but noone uses drgs etc. Also still shady on how drk and sam stack up in this game atm.

no idea where this thread went, but gotta lol at people bringing up war or drk into defensive categories. At their core drk does have some defensive tools but really, they dont do squat on anything worthwhile in the long run. Stun shaves off maybe 2 hits, weapon bash, same deal, drain will give you enough hp back just to get it knocked off again. Spikes was the first good defensive spell imo, and even that is limited due to the mp limitations of drk and its long recast. But to compare it to war, and defender of all things? Wow, if you're gonna compare defense of a job, bring up drg, because war wont survive for crap on anything that they cant kill in less than a minute.

[Rezeak]

re-evaluate your playstyle before you jump the gun and scream for a job to be "fixed". Job fixing threads should be in the PLD and SCH forums, not the DRK.

SCH isn't a broken job... it just had a huge buff to list a few of things it has now

Best mp recovery (10 mp a tick from sublimation) + convert (/RDM only sub u should use)
Insane mp Effiectency.
And now it has a stratagem every 50secs~ which stack to 5.

Anyway i play SCH as well it sux in abyssea(DMG wise it's still good but trigger wise BLM trumps it) but it so stupidly overpowered outside it easily makes up for it.

[Rezeak]

fuck souleater for 3 hits will take hate off you and make retaliation worthless.... and once enmity caps unless your fucking duo your not going to keep hate anyway.

sure retaliation is broken when you have hate or when your fell cleaving but it wont top dread spikes when used right................... hell you think mobs with high tier magic and TP moves are not worth even stuning for the 2 sec delay? get real....

Man can u stop making up BS

DMG wise Retaliation vs DRK spamming dreadspikes.
a) WAR can use Retaliation FULL TIME and doesn't have a DMG limit
b) WAR can ukkos to cap hate (it's like 3k WS caped ahte without enmity gear) o and if thats not enough Provoke or Warcry(well blood rage) is there too)
c) the TP gain ALONE trumps dreadspikes DMG. (1 ukko for 3k-4k > Dread spikes)

And if we're taking about suriviabilty then it's the tp moves or magic that usally kills me not taking melee DMG so plz.

[Quetzacoatl]

Did anyone mention yet that when in Abyssea, Drain/Aspir 2's increasing HP/MP effects are blocked with cruor buffs on? Blocking the Extra HP/MP using those spells with Cruor Enhancements is pretty annoying to begin with and those could use some fixing. Same with Spells like Absorb-STR/DEX/VIT/AGI/INT/MND/CHR.

I Don't feel like scrolling through tons of pages to find any response on it.

[Chogokin]

Well, I definitely think DRK needs something, but find the stances thing odd... If they are going to work there can't be one for magic and one for melee... because as others have mentioned, everyone will use the melee one.

DRK magic casting has to follow on from its meleeing in order to be useful. If I was doing two contrasting stances they would use something like http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Quick_Magic

Defensive Stance:
(Greatly) Increased chance of parrying.
(Greatly) Increased TP bonus to Tactical Parry.
When you parry an enemy's attack, you briefly gain the effect of Quick Magic for your next spell. Since you're taking damage, you'll probably use this insta-cast to heal with a drain, or get dread spikes up, all without fear of interruption.

Offensive Stance:
Increased critical hit damage.
Increased TP bonus from Occult Accumen.
When you score a critical hit against the enemy, you briefly gain the effect of Quick Magic for your next spell. Since you gain increased TP bonus from Occult Accumen, you may want to fire off an elemental spell. Even if it's weak, it's free damage, extra TP and doesn't interfere with meleeing. Or you may want to insta cast an Absorb.

Anyway, I feel as though massive cast times stopping meleeing are what make DRK's magic really unappealing, so a +Magic -Melee stance would never get used. Earlier on in the thread someone mentioned synergy between melee and magic, I think they need to flow logically from one another.

Any thoughts?

[Jar]

Man can u stop making up BS

DMG wise Retaliation vs DRK spamming dreadspikes.
a) WAR can use Retaliation FULL TIME and doesn't have a DMG limit
b) WAR can ukkos to cap hate (it's like 3k WS caped ahte without enmity gear) o and if thats not enough Provoke or Warcry(well blood rage) is there too)
c) the TP gain ALONE trumps dreadspikes DMG. (1 ukko for 3k-4k > Dread spikes)

And if we're taking about suriviabilty then it's the tp moves or magic that usally kills me not taking melee DMG so plz.
http://kanican.livejournal.com/13235.html

hates going to cap way fast than you argument over retaliation ends because the mob spins in a circle...

yes scythe needs a boost the rest of you guys are fucking crazy tho.

[vedder]

heya que, yea the absorb line an drain2 is a known issue but most of us have just plain out given up on them sadly cus theyre so underused just because they decay/cast time/and not stacking on cruor buffs. this was really a big wtf for me at SE, want us casting more but there really is no fn benefit in abyssea for it whatsoever none zero zilch, hell i get shit from my ls for using stun at times because of how u cant proc on stun

i agree with chogo that if they do adopt "stances" they need to really intermingle casting an melle'ing(sp) more otherwise your damn right ima be in dd mode 99.9% time im a galka and our magic is shit an my mp is a representation of that

DING got my caladbolg lv80 the other day an ls has 4-5 pops for ciren we gonna do this week woot!

[deathgod]

weapon skills
make torcleaver crit ws. i think every other emp ws is crit other than torcleaver and quiteus.

magic
give drk ultima make it dark magic skill. so we can get the most out of it. aoe spell that deals massive dark dmg.

ja
new 2hr
make bloodweapon trait with 30% proc rate

[Kagato]

I edited the top 10 list to better reflect what we now have and what we still hope to get.

Needless to say, or DD has recieved a very substancial buff. Now...it's time to work on Magic.

[Dart]

our melee phase may have a buff (its a nice start but still not enough), but our ws phase is still very lacking. Even when you compare our empy ws vs other empy ws its still lagging behind.

That being said, I'm still pleased as it seems that SE actually reads this forum, but scythe weaponskills need a major boost.

Also as kirschy said, this won't help my apoc out all that much either (I have access not to a ghorn bard mule but a well geared bard mule) still at least we get something that isn't tactical parry.

@jar about war and retal.

I can't speak for others, but in my ls fights don't last long enough for any job to cap hate against my ukon war (outside me getting smashed in the face by dragua lmao). War is king for a reason, drk can't compete.....yet. But i'm hopeful for more.

[Dart]

as for a magic buff, i'm worried that if we ask for it, thats all we'll get and not a ws buff which we need much much much much much more.

[Kagato]

as for a magic buff, i'm worried that if we ask for it, thats all we'll get and not a ws buff which we need much much much much much more.

I disagree. I believe it's useful magic we need more of.

Our WS are decent. We just lack a WS that takes full advantage of Razed Ruins. Torcleaver is great in and out of Abyssea and Quietus is good outside abyssea.

Besides, with these updates, there's a good chance we're now the strongest in raw DD power if Souleater actually is good enough to full-time rather than wait on it. If we do that and also get a buffed out WS, we'd basically overrun every other DD around and then we'd either get nerfed or they get buffed to a point where we're useless again.

I would not be opposed to a new, strong WS. I would welcome it with open arms. I just feel we need some changes to something that makes us different from other jobs: New magic exclusive for us.

[Dart]

I disagree. I believe it's useful magic we need more of.

Our WS are decent. We just lack a WS that takes full advantage of Razed Ruins. Torcleaver is great in and out of Abyssea and Quietus is good outside abyssea.

Besides, with these updates, there's a good chance we're now the strongest in raw DD power if Souleater actually is good enough to full-time rather than wait on it. If we do that and also get a buffed out WS, we'd basically overrun every other DD around and then we'd either get nerfed or they get buffed to a point where we're useless again.

I would not be opposed to a new, strong WS. I would welcome it with open arms. I just feel we need some changes to something that makes us different from other jobs: New magic exclusive for us.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that our magic doesn't need to be revamped, however I know how stingy SE can be with job adjustments. I see us only getting a couple more at best (if even that much). To me drk always has been a dd job, so naturally I want them to buff what I believe to be our main aspect, raw damage. To compete we still need a buff to our current WS or give us a new one at 99. Even going along the empy route, compare torcleaver to Ukko's. Its not even a contest.

[Jar]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that our magic doesn't need to be revamped, however I know how stingy SE can be with job adjustments. I see us only getting a couple more at best (if even that much). To me drk always has been a dd job, so naturally I want them to buff what I believe to be our main aspect, raw damage. To compete we still need a buff to our current WS or give us a new one at 99. Even going along the empy route, compare torcleaver to Ukko's. Its not even a contest.

because it was hard to cap attack and because the war had RR

DRK will easily cap attack now and wars wont have RR in the new dyna

oh and DRK WS rate just got huge ~

[Dart]

war can cap crit rate outside abyssea fairly easily. Actually its insanely easy right now.

[Jar]

war can cap crit rate outside abyssea fairly easily. Actually its insanely easy right now.

Id love to know how because DEx crit caps at 20% merits at 4

they dont get 75% crit rate from anything i know about.........................................................................................

weaponskills get a base of 20% + and the new VIT making crits do less damage will nerf the crits they get even more..

[Dart]

The minimum critical hit rate from DEX vs. AGI is 5%, the maximum is 20%. Equipment and merits that increase critical hit rate are added on top of this.

More of my understanding is that crit rate caps out when your dex is 50 points higher than the mobs agi. Its a hard check etc.

This has always been my understanding, back since my days of fine tunning gear to maintain capped crit rate on war.

Add in more merits to crit with the incoming patch to push crit rate a little higher.

This is what I was referring too and I'm not including crit plus gear available now from af3+2 and other items.

[Jar]

The minimum critical hit rate from DEX vs. AGI is 5%, the maximum is 20%. Equipment and merits that increase critical hit rate are added on top of this.

More of my understanding is that crit rate caps out when your dex is 50 points higher than the mobs agi. Its a hard check etc.

This has always been my understanding, back since my days of fine tunning gear to maintain capped crit rate on war.

Add in more merits to crit with the incoming patch to push crit rate a little higher.

This is what I was referring too and I'm not including crit plus gear available now from af3+2 and other items.

capped Critical hit rate is 99% and can only be reached in abyssea.... i know everything you just restated that i said already........................................

nothing you said DRK doesnt get

[Dart]

capped Critical hit rate is 99% and can only be reached in abyssea.... i know everything you just restated that i said already........................................

nothing you said DRK doesnt get

its unknown and speculated to be 95-99%. You're just trying to pick a fight. You full well knew the point i was trying to make and blatantly ignored what I'm talking about.

Drk ws cannot compete with the mainstream jobs in the ws department. It needs a pretty serious buff.

Troll someplace else please.

[Kagato]

Troll someplace else please.

You ask for the impossible, sir! Wait, I feel like I have de ja vu.

[Dart]

sorry kagato i don't want to shit up your thread, but talking capped crit rate outside abyssea. I've never had anyone bring up 95%!!!! They always knew that I was talking about getting 50 dex over mob agi. I just don't get it... Maybe its me, ijdk

[Kagato]

Dude, you're arguing with Jar.

He has more dots in his sentences than he has sense in his head. Why do you think no one here agrees with him...ever?

[Dart]

Hey I need something to do inbetween NM windows. Finished up my Ukon now i'm doing caladbolg trials. Its sad but farming the gems/lanterns is the easy part to this <_< Can do that in a week with my static.

[Kagato]

I'm actually working on Redemption. I know. Crazy. I just feel there's going to be something amazing about it come level 99.

[Dart]

You and me both, FIX MY RELIC FFS ._.!

[Jar]

its unknown and speculated to be 95-99%. You're just trying to pick a fight. You full well knew the point i was trying to make and blatantly ignored what I'm talking about.

Drk ws cannot compete with the mainstream jobs in the ws department. It needs a pretty serious buff.

Troll someplace else please.

Wtf does crit rate have to do with that at all............................

total WS damage will have DRK ahead because of the extra haste

torcleaver is no joke outside abyssea while ukko's takes a huge hit..

Raging rush will be backseat to King's justice agian because no Razed ruins..

What where you talking about agian?

[Dart]

Wtf does crit rate have to do with that at all............................

total WS damage will have DRK ahead because of the extra haste

torcleaver is no joke outside abyssea while ukko's takes a huge hit..

Raging rush will be backseat to King's justice agian because no Razed ruins..

What where you talking about agian?

Raging rush was always ahead of KJ if you could get that 50Dex

Ukko's outside is monsterous. I should know I have it

I don't know about you but I always have a bard with me. so 80% haste vs 75% k how do you expect 5% haste to be gamebreaking enough to make up for the clearly lackluster ws selection we have?

With war, crit rate has to do with everything in our ws selection.

Your move.

Ninja edit: Its actually 75 not 72.

[Jar]

Raging rush was always ahead of KJ if you could get that 50Dex

Ukko's outside is monsterous. I should know I have it

I don't know about you but I always have a bard with me. so 80% haste vs 72% k how do you expect 8% haste to be gamebreaking enough to make up for the clearly lackluster ws selection we have?

With war, crit rate has to do with everything in our ws selection.

Your move.

8% alot think of how haste is exponential. ...... also the WS damage of a good war and a good DRK is not that far apart..

edit: w/o bard 2 hour its like going from swinging 3 times as fast to 4 times as fast

and 25 + 9.96(hasso) + 36.04(haste spell and march) = 71.........

[Dart]

8% alot think of how haste is exponential. ...... also the WS damage of a good war and a good DRK is not that far apart..

as i changed it its 75, i forgot about something. So 5% more haste. do you know how much more % wise in ws frequency that is? Its 25%

Guillotine doesn't make that up when compared to RR.

We can go a step further and talk about empy if you want.

[Jar]

as i changed it its 75, i forgot about something. So 5% more haste. do you know how much more % wise in ws frequency that is? Its 25%

Guillotine doesn't make that up when compared to RR.

We can go a step further and talk about empy if you want.

Where are you getting the other 4% from?

[Dart]

Magical effects: 43.75% (448/1024) 600+ combined wind/singing skill for bard puts you at the top tier for marches, which was previously retardedly hard to hit at 75 without merits in bard (who serious did that?)

[Jar]

Magical effects: 43.75% (448/1024) 600+ combined wind/singing skill for bard puts you at the top tier for marches

March 2 caps at 12.50% haste at 600 skill only 2 hour gives more

march 1 is 9% haste spell is 15%

thats only 36.5% 329/1024

[Rezeak]

Jar is right on that one

put it this way 75%-80% haste adds as much dmg as the first 50% haste.

aka

50% = +100% DMG (double attack speed)
66% = +200% DMG (triple speed)
75% = +300% DMG (Quad speed)
80% = +400% DMG (5x speed)
back in the day 93% = +1300% DMG <333

either way thats a much clearer way to say it lol

[Jar]

Jar is right on that one

put it this way 75%-80% haste adds as much dmg as the first 50% haste.

aka

50% = +100% DMG (double attack speed)
66% = +200% DMG (triple speed)
75% = +300% DMG (Quad speed)
80% = +400% DMG (5x speed)
back in the day 93% = +1300% DMG <333

either way thats a much clearer way to say it lol

thank you i was looking everywhere for the real numbers xD

[Rezeak]

Also don't forget if ya have a good enough WHM and if the new Souleater update is good ur looking an insane mount of DMG with LR and SE up on top of the decent LR DMG

[Jar]

Also don't forget if ya have a good enough WHM and if the new Souleater update is good ur looking an insane mount of DMG with LR and SE up on top of the decent LR DMG

good point noted!

[Dart]

nope i was correct the first time. I believe the extra 4% is from SV. I have it all wrote down in my readme but didn't put SV beside the 43%. That has to be it.

Regardless!!! my point stands even with 8% more haste Guillotine average doesn't compete enough!

[Dart]

also you only have that 80% haste, 72% of the time. It isn't a flat 50% increase. Its 25%.

[Jar]

nope i was correct the first time. I believe the extra 4% is from SV. I have it all wrote down in my readme but didn't put SV beside the 43%. That has to be it.

Regardless!!! my point stands even with 8% more haste Guillotine average doesn't compete enough!

8% > RR/King's justice be close inside abyssea not so close outside lol

[Jar]

also you only have that 80% haste, 72% of the time. It isn't a flat 50% increase. Its 25%.

the other 18% of the time hasso is up

[Dart]

jar honest, you have a good grasp on the math, have you just never partied with a real war or seen a parse of their WS dmg average?