Smite Q's - GH/RR/Apov vs Harv/RR/VV vs VV/RR/Apoc

[Cursed]

for a verethragna MNK, which of the 3 combos will max out your DOT while sacrificing as little as possible in Smite DMG?

I've found Smite to be very impressive when using Atmas that focus on str/da/ta/atk.

With VV/RR/Dark harvester I can spike 7ks with 13% tp return.
Most I've seen with RR/GH/Apoc is a 6.2k, with a 16% tp return.

EDIT:
and what say you to MNKs who smite in faith torque/Tantra+2 gloves and Thunder belt instead of Heafoc/Thunder Gorget/Beir+1 or black belt?
Hmok, a really old FFXI veteran MNK swears by using + skill, and he pulls some pretty nasty Smites. Highest I've heard is a 10k vs an Ironclad. For what its worth, the source is trustworthy to me at least.

[Dfoley]

Except on ironclad anyone can get a 10k hit...


use kinematics ss to find the optimal gear, but from what I remember

VV/RR/APOC will net you the highest dot/smite combo
GH/RR/APOC will be slightly less vs dmg, and about identical autoattack dmg.

[Greatguardian]

Certain Ironclads take double damage at certain times so 10k to "an ironclad" is not very impressive. I believe I've seen the same picture and it was pointed out there as well.

GH/RR/Apoc and VV/RR/Apoc are the two strongest Atma combos for Smite MNK, as per le maths. VV pulls very slightly ahead (like, less than 1% or so), but only when you don't take the Counter from GH into account; and GH/RR/Apoc is more consistent than VV/RR/Apoc. Choosing between the two is pretty much a matter of what you're doing. If you find yourself idling a lot, yet are able to take full advantage of the Regain when you are actually fighting, then VV will pull ahead. However, if you find yourself holding TP (losing the advantage of the Regain), and/or find the Counter boost beneficial, GH will pull ahead.

This is my personal high on NM-tier mobs w/o brew, outside buffs, or blunt/physical weakness:
http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/5cfbf977df1e73ade7c96059426e9204.jpg

As for gear, Bier+1/Black Belt and Gorget/Torque/Str neck depend on your total stats. It's all about relative increases. I believe Kirschy mathed it such that Black belt/Bier Belt always beat Thunder Belt in and outside of Abyssea, so the same would hold true for an equivalent Str neck. The problem with Faith Torque is that it adds 1 DMG and 6 attack, where a +7STR neck is already adding +4.2 damage and 3.5 attack. I find it highly unlikely that Faith Torque is ever going to be ideal in WS.

For the same reason, it's highly unlikely Tantra Gloves +2 are going to pull ahead of Heafocs in the hands slot unless you really need the Accuracy.

[Cursed]

Certain Ironclads take double damage at certain times so 10k to "an ironclad" is not very impressive. I believe I've seen the same picture and it was pointed out there as well.

GH/RR/Apoc and VV/RR/Apoc are the two strongest Atma combos for Smite MNK, as per le maths. VV pulls very slightly ahead (like, less than 1% or so), but only when you don't take the Counter from GH into account; and GH/RR/Apoc is more consistent than VV/RR/Apoc. Choosing between the two is pretty much a matter of what you're doing. If you find yourself idling a lot, yet are able to take full advantage of the Regain when you are actually fighting, then VV will pull ahead. However, if you find yourself holding TP (losing the advantage of the Regain), and/or find the Counter boost beneficial, GH will pull ahead.

This is my personal high on NM-tier mobs w/o brew, outside buffs, or blunt/physical weakness:
http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/5cfbf977df1e73ade7c96059426e9204.jpg

As for gear, Bier+1/Black Belt and Gorget/Torque/Str neck depend on your total stats. It's all about relative increases. I believe Kirschy mathed it such that Black belt/Bier Belt always beat Thunder Belt in and outside of Abyssea, so the same would hold true for an equivalent Str neck. The problem with Faith Torque is that it adds 1 DMG and 6 attack, where a +7STR neck is already adding +4.2 damage and 3.5 attack. I find it highly unlikely that Faith Torque is ever going to be ideal in WS.

For the same reason, it's highly unlikely Tantra Gloves +2 are going to pull ahead of Heafocs in the hands slot unless you really need the Accuracy.

that Smite looks impressive but more importantly is a more realistic impression of Smite's Highs.
You using the AMK head and Hachi legs? I'm missing those.
My MNK is always tanking unless the Ukons in my LS are just zerging things down, so I'll stick to GH/RR/Apoc.
EDIT: My Smites seem to do much better in comparison to others outside abyssea probably due to having all the right dex/str/acc mix gear. I get spikes of 3.2k and average 1.8-2k

To the other poster, 10k Smites are normal? I'm talking about non-brewed smites.
I average at 4k on good days and spikes are 5ks. My own personal highest is a 7.2k with capped Atk on raja. I don't count the dmg I do to worms in Abyssea-Ltp but if I did my smites would average 5k.

[Dfoley]

For examples:
TP SET:
Thew Bomblet
Tantra +2
Faith
Brutal
Aesir
Tantra +2
Tantra +2
Rajas
Epona
Atheling
Black
Tantra +2
Tantra +2

VV/RR/APOC:
WS Dmg:4171
Set DPS:477.372
Full DPS:402.584

GH/RR/APOC
WS Dmg:3844
Set DPS:459.444
Full DPS:388.629

VV/RR/APOC is the clear winner. (Those ws were done in the same set as tp)


I just toyed around with the gear and got the highest combo as:
mnk.war,
r curry bun food,
berk up
Tantra Tathlum
MKE WSDmg
Ire +1
Brutal
Kemas
Tantra +2
Heafoc
Strigoi
Epona
Vigilance +1
Beir +1
Hachiryu
Tantra +2

WS Dmg:4910
Set DPS:550.059
Full DPS:462.754

[Cyprias]

For examples:
TP SET:
Thew Bomblet

Not arguing you with this choice at all, but is there a reason to choose Thew Bomblet > Tantra Tathlum in TP? I'm more curious for my own sake in my TP build, as the 3 main pieces from that set that I do not have at the moment is Verethragna (STR Taipans atm, just because they're done until Vere is finished), Thew Bomblet, and Epona's Ring. Any help would be appreciative, including a summary of DPS equations and/or values. Thanks!

Sorry for the slight derail, but to keep on topic, would 1 gorget/belt that relates to Smite be good for WS, or is Ire+1 + Beir+1 better than let's say Breeze Gorget + Beir +1 or Ire+1 + Breeze Belt (I realize OP had a similar question, but this brings it into a better perspective of Neck and Waist pieces rather than adding in Hands as well.)?

[Greatguardian]

Assuming you are fStr and Acc capped (true in Abyssea, and probably true outside if you're using 5/5 AF3+2), Tantra Tath is only really giving you +2 attack while Thew Bomblet is +9 attack.

[Cyprias]

Assuming you are fStr and Acc capped (true in Abyssea, and probably true outside if you're using 5/5 AF3+2), Tantra Tath is only really giving you +2 attack while Thew Bomblet is +9 attack.

Thanks, that's what I figured. Guess I can solo one up then when the maintenance ends.

[hiko]

with the new crit dmg + cap @100 wouldnt SS beat VV?

[Manicora]

well even though im late to the party, 22k VS with brew on Dragua, 9392 no Brew on Ironclad best VS i get seems 7-8k and I full time af3+2. only time i macro in WS gear for VS is when i have a high def mob/nm and i still only get 6-7k Maybe i should get str+ pants but for the most part im the sinlge best DD in my LS even with a lvl 85 Uko's emp GA. I /sam alot now for sekk <3 was playin with kirin like that and took 35% of his HP within 45 sec. so as long as you Like your gear, dont give a care to what others say. VS nakked is still better than most blade Hi with the best gear.

[Gokku]

SS RR Apoc , is what im using now highs of about 7000 avg of about 4000 for VS , and as a comparison on my war my highs are 8-9000 avg 5.5-6000. as noted the DPS gained from the new crit dmg cap is huge.

[Mojo]

Best atma depends on buffs. VV isn't going to be as good as GH if say you have a BRD and/or are tanking (which most MNKs do.)

[DarkshadeUnicorn]

For examples:
TP SET:
Thew Bomblet
Tantra +2
Faith
Brutal
Aesir
Tantra +2
Tantra +2
Rajas
Epona
Atheling
Black
Tantra +2
Tantra +2

VV/RR/APOC:
WS Dmg:4171
Set DPS:477.372
Full DPS:402.584

GH/RR/APOC
WS Dmg:3844
Set DPS:459.444
Full DPS:388.629

VV/RR/APOC is the clear winner. (Those ws were done in the same set as tp)


I just toyed around with the gear and got the highest combo as:
mnk.war,
r curry bun food,
berk up
Tantra Tathlum
MKE WSDmg
Ire +1
Brutal
Kemas
Tantra +2
Heafoc
Strigoi
Epona
Vigilance +1
Beir +1
Hachiryu
Tantra +2

WS Dmg:4910
Set DPS:550.059
Full DPS:462.754

Since your able to get all these stastics, could you do me a favor and try btoh sets of gear, but using the atma setup:

RR/VV/SS It's what I use, and i NEVER hit under 6k WS. im not even full +2'd, using 85 Vere and some other bits of gear are not yet finished. I.e no DMG/STR/ATT on neck, just twlight neck. And 1 of my rings is HP+90. (W.I.P - no I dont think I need HP/Physical damage down, but when I haven't got anything yet, since working on vere, its what i've been using for tanking Dragua as taru!)

[Leonlionheart]

well even though im late to the party, 22k VS with brew on Dragua, 9392 no Brew on Ironclad best VS i get seems 7-8k and I full time af3+2. only time i macro in WS gear for VS is when i have a high def mob/nm and i still only get 6-7k Maybe i should get str+ pants but for the most part im the sinlge best DD in my LS even with a lvl 85 Uko's emp GA. I /sam alot now for sekk <3 was playin with kirin like that and took 35% of his HP within 45 sec. so as long as you Like your gear, dont give a care to what others say. VS nakked is still better than most blade Hi with the best gear.

Not only is this incredibly exagerated, but it just makes your ls sound like it totally sucks.

[Nomercy808]

well even though im late to the party, 22k VS with brew on Dragua, 9392 no Brew on Ironclad best VS i get seems 7-8k and I full time af3+2. only time i macro in WS gear for VS is when i have a high def mob/nm and i still only get 6-7k Maybe i should get str+ pants but for the most part im the sinlge best DD in my LS even with a lvl 85 Uko's emp GA. I /sam alot now for sekk <3 was playin with kirin like that and took 35% of his HP within 45 sec. so as long as you Like your gear, dont give a care to what others say. VS nakked is still better than most blade Hi with the best gear.

what?! that war must fail! or your nose is just growing. STOP drinking the bong water

[Francisco]

I'm halfway on the SS/RR/AA bandwagon.

I haven't seen it mathed out yet, but it 'feels' stronger than GH/RR/AA... I've stuck with GH still mostly, for the extra AGI/Counter - but sometimes I go with SS instead... soloed some NMs in Abyssea - Altep for fun using MNK/WAR and SS/RR/AA. Built TP to 300%, popped Victory Smite, Impetus, Hundred Fists... stuff dies fast... but you can too... so I suggest using a Fanatic's Powder/Drink.

[Swords]

SS/RR/AA combo can output higher potential criticals, but from what I've personally tried I see similar results with GN or VV combos in overall damage. The trade-offs between SS, GN, and VV differences are somewhat marginal to overall damage.