Accessing More of the Spell List

[Purrs]

I know a lot of Blue Mages complain about the work involved in obtaining our huge spell list, and then not having access to it all at once like other mages. I realize, as do most others, that granting full access to the spell list would have ramifications on job traits gained through spell combos. The mechanics of the Blue Mage job seem to disallow any chance of gaining access to all our magic at once. I think there could be a simple solution, however.

If the main concern is having unlimited access to job traits, why not just change "spell" set points to "trait" set points. That way we could have full access to all those spells we worked so hard for without the mind-numbing annoyance of navigating a huge spell list to swap things out, but not become all crazy overpowered by unlimited job traits.

This would add a little more flexibility to situational spell choices and ease/simplify the spell selection interface.

[Laciante]

But half of the fun is swapping out spells (but not the warm up time)
besides, the best part of BLU is that we don't have to go through such a long list to find the spell we want from the available spell list, like RDM does.
All they need to do is give a few more slots/points...

[Kwate]

This thread is beating a dead horse, might want to check out the other threads in this forum that talks about this.

[macross]

There is no fun in swapping spells. Go and try some VoidWatch and see how fun it is.
Need to keep the system of setting spells to earn traits and stats and what not, but allow us to cast any spell we know without having to set it. Make them have less power or whatever if needed, just allow us them to cast them so we don't have to constantly set and unset new spells 50 million times per voidwatch nm.

[Scuro]

Honestly, the spells have more then the ability to traits, they have stats, to ask for them to do this update would probably mean the removal of stats associated with the spells. I think that is a bad idea, because if not we would have access to all of the stats associated with the spells and that would be broken. WHat I would get behind is the ability to make macro palettes for BLU spells so that we can swap on the fly with out having to bring up the menu every damn time or spending a lot of time fooling around with spells. This too me would be much better. Giving us full access to the spells makes the job unbalanced. While that would be fun, its not exactly fair.

[Inafking]

We're gonna get more set points at 91 and I'm sure Job Merits 3 will have something like assimilation. I have access to everything I need except when I'm trying to proc. That can be fixed by adding double or quad proc spells or accepting the fact that we're the most powerful job in the game and we gotta take a nerf every now and then to keep the other jobs from getting pissed off at us. I'm good with either.

-- Edit --

I would, however, like to see the 2hr give us access to our full spell list and all the atributes and traits that go with it.

[Prothscar]

or accepting the fact that we're the most powerful job in the game and we gotta take a nerf every now and then to keep the other jobs from getting pissed off at us.

by what possible measure?

[Defiledsickness]

I would, however, like to see the 2hr give us access to our full spell list and all the atributes and traits that go with it.

then we'd have the best 2hour in the game :P im just happy ours does something now. but this has been discussed a lot, we'll just have to wait until next month to see what happens.

[Kwate]

I think Proth's findings revealed we were getting some type of JA next update if I'm not mistaken. So that idea is not totally off the table.

[Prothscar]

They weren't my findings, but Spira's. At least, the video was on his youtube channel!

[Tashan]

My Character would have its stats boosted as following from having access to all spells:

STR +27
DEX +34
VIT +35
AGI +44
INT +19
MND +36
CHR +23
HP +70
MP +190

[Kwate]

a JA with a 5 min recast that allows you to cast any spell not set is more realistic, without the mods.

[Scuro]

So simply, you are asking for a JA that gives a SCH 2hr but for BLUs.... Christ idk how many more times I have to walk in on this bonfire and stomp it out, but here we go again. You people that wanted this for a BLU 2hour, were not thinking in terms of originality, you were naming SCH's 2hr, for BLU's. The current 2hr is amazing, to b*tch about it in any means is complete ignorance, the darkness you can generate is unreal in comparison to any other 2hrs capabilities. To have a JA that acts as a mini SCH2 hour is silly, I honestly doubt this will ever be allowed into the game. And if it did, I wouldn't want it to because then that would probably mean that STATs added to the spells as well as JA's would be gimped in some form or fashion. The way in which the spells are designed are fine just the way they are, to tamper with them in this way will only bring backlash to our job class. The reason why this job cannot be compared to other classes is because our job is the only one in which our spells which are equiped grant Stat and JA bonuses, to give us an ability that would grant us all the spells with all of their stats and JA bonuses would be broken beyond all reasoning. And if you said "Well have it so it eliminates all Stat and JA+!" So you are saying that I will loose my double attack, and dual wield as well as any other Trait I have up currently (forcing me to loose certain pieces of gear that amplify my damage) as well as loosing all stat buffs I carefully crafted within my spell selection, just so I can cast all spells gimped? Idk why this keeps being brought up, but its not a reasonable suggestion for the class, and I wish more people would realize this @_@.

[Prothscar]

It would be somewhat unecessary overall. I can't think of many, if any, spells that I'd want to cast in this way. If it's a spell worth casting in the situation that I'm in, I probably have it set. Admittedly a JA that very temporarily allows access to the list of yellow proc spells, (like, every 5 mins for 1 spell), would be a welcome addition since we're really the only job that is genuinely inhibited by our proc spells in that we have to set aside precious set points to use them. But meh, won't happen.

[Kwate]

So simply, you are asking for a JA that gives a SCH 2hr but for BLUs.... Christ idk how many more times I have to walk in on this bonfire and stomp it out, but here we go again. You people that wanted this for a BLU 2hour, were not thinking in terms of originality, you were naming SCH's 2hr, for BLU's. The current 2hr is amazing, to b*tch about it in any means is complete ignorance, the darkness you can generate is unreal in comparison to any other 2hrs capabilities. To have a JA that acts as a mini SCH2 hour is silly, I honestly doubt this will ever be allowed into the game. And if it did, I wouldn't want it to because then that would probably mean that STATs added to the spells as well as JA's would be gimped in some form or fashion. The way in which the spells are designed are fine just the way they are, to tamper with them in this way will only bring backlash to our job class. The reason why this job cannot be compared to other classes is because our job is the only one in which our spells which are equiped grant Stat and JA bonuses, to give us an ability that would grant us all the spells with all of their stats and JA bonuses would be broken beyond all reasoning. And if you said "Well have it so it eliminates all Stat and JA+!" So you are saying that I will loose my double attack, and dual wield as well as any other Trait I have up currently (forcing me to loose certain pieces of gear that amplify my damage) as well as loosing all stat buffs I carefully crafted within my spell selection, just so I can cast all spells gimped? Idk why this keeps being brought up, but its not a reasonable suggestion for the class, and I wish more people would realize this @_@.

Wait like how our 2hr now is like SAM?

[Kwate]

It would be somewhat unecessary overall. I can't think of many, if any, spells that I'd want to cast in this way. If it's a spell worth casting in the situation that I'm in, I probably have it set. Admittedly a JA that very temporarily allows access to the list of yellow proc spells, (like, every 5 mins for 1 spell), would be a welcome addition since we're really the only job that is genuinely inhibited by our proc spells in that we have to set aside precious set points to use them. But meh, won't happen.

Proth think about this. How many times have you fought a mob on the fly or unexpectantly wish you had Blank gaze set to dispel those ice spikes? Also gives you the flexibility in not having to set a sleep spell as those are very situational, a JA like this would add to our depth and flexibility overall. Also perfect for a free proc attempt once the element is determined.

[Tashan]

Part of the make up of Blue Mage is, while being very versatile, to encourage creativitiy by limiting what options are available at a time. Fundamentally, the job designs forces you to create your options by carefully choosing your Traits, Stat Boosts and Buffs.

With Pride, I always say "You never meet the same Blue Mage twice."

A job ability as requested would go against the basic design of the job.

And if that were to be one of the, predictably, few job abilities we'll be getting on the way to 99 I'd be disappointed.

We could get something a lot better than that. I don't want the oppurtunity wasted.

[Kwate]

I hear your point, however I do see that ability to be one used very often and widely among BLU's. While predictable, it would be extremely useful.

[Defiledsickness]

well it could be they want you to prepare on blu before engaging. of course you wont know a mob until you've tried it (or read about it on wiki) but after 1 fight you know if you need blank gaze or sheep song. undead mages almost always cast ice spikes, so prepare before engaging.

since all our spells have family modifiers i think SE wants Blu to be a tacticians job.

[Tashan]

To say the very least, Blue Mage is one of the most technical jobs in game.

[Prothscar]

Proth think about this. How many times have you fought a mob on the fly or unexpectantly wish you had Blank gaze set to dispel those ice spikes? Also gives you the flexibility in not having to set a sleep spell as those are very situational, a JA like this would add to our depth and flexibility overall. Also perfect for a free proc attempt once the element is determined.

I definitely see how it could be useful in situations like these, however I could see it being abused in some ways.

[Scuro]

Wait like how our 2hr now is like SAM?


The ability is nothing like SAM, while one can draw a conclusion that because it can generate SC's it can be compared, yet it also does Magic bursts, on top of this, TP is not the factor by which these are created, they are simply given Affinity effects within our JAs. The very few unique things that a BLU possesses Chain and burst Affinity. Our 2 hour is by no means based off of Tp nor does it consume it as SAM does. your argument that it is like SAM is the same as comparing perfect dodge to PLD's invincible. While yes the two are damage mitigators, they operate in 2 distinctly different ways that are uniquely integrated in the manner by which those jobs operate. The same is as for BLU, it is based off of what is fundamental to a BLU (Chain and burst) thus being uniquely our own, and finally one hell of a game changer..

[Kwate]

Magic burst element portion of our 2hr will see limited use at best. To say our 2hr is not similar to SAM's is ludicrous. We cast, SAM weaponskill, the end result are kick-ass skillchains, did I miss something?

[Kwate]

I definitely see how it could be useful in situations like these, however I could see it being abused in some ways.

Abused how? I can see it getting plenty of use. Outside of a Composure type ability I find it hard to top this. Granted the idea might be boring on paper, but will be very effective in game play.

[Scuro]

Again Kwate, does Perfect Dodge = Invincible? No. And again, just because its not used, does not deny the fact that it can do it. So by being able to magic burst (which could be utilized if we had an effectively fast casing dark spell that was still worth a damn) that makes it not = SAM 2hr. What you are asking for is clearly SCH2hr, not even bothering to put an original twist on it that utilizes the jobs skills or basic JAs.

[Sylvr]

Again Kwate, does Perfect Dodge = Invincible? No. And again, just because its not used, does not deny the fact that it can do it. So by being able to magic burst (which could be utilized if we had an effectively fast casing dark spell that was still worth a damn) that makes it not = SAM 2hr. What you are asking for is clearly SCH2hr, not even bothering to put an original twist on it that utilizes the jobs skills or basic JAs.

The job ability proposed is as different from SCH 2hr as you say BLU 2hr is from SAM 2hr (More, I would say)

SCH 2hr does a LOT more than just unlock their entire spell list. In case you didn't know, it also gives the benefits of both "Arts", recharges all Stratagems charges, and reduces the charge cost of Stratagems to 0.

Unlocking our spell list is 1/3 of Tabula Rasa. Similarly, one could argue that Azure Lore is one part of Meikyo Shisui in that it allows for extended self skillchains.

Unlocking our spell list every 5 or 10 minutes for 30 seconds or a minute, or even for 1 spell without the associated stats or traits doesn't seem like it's asking too much.

[Scuro]

I'm a 90 SCH, I do know lol, the only difference is the charges, and based off of my debate with Perfect Dodge Vs invincible thats a fair returning contradiction to my statement, yet you basically are asking to the full aspects of the spell list as does Tabula Rasa now, but again, stratagems is what separates it. Mkay thats fair, so lets move onto the proposed idea here, so your saying in order to use all of the spells, you would be content with loosing all the JAs you have as well as the Stat boosts (literally gimping your spells, and possibly loosing your TP for any of us that are dual wielding and not /NIN or /DNC) in order to use a spell? This sounds like a good idea how? And too who? We can debate how close the 2hrs are and blah blah blah blah blah, nobody cares, the bare fact is, its down right stupid to use the full spell list because well....

I'm not sure if you guys woke up in some dream land, but as soon as they gave blue magic points, they had no intention of ever letting us use the full list of blue magic spells, and this should be extremely evident by blue magic spell combinations giving us JAs as well as stats. For a JA that would give us all stats from every spell, as well as all JAs from every possible spell combination..... well I'm sorry but that is down right a cold day in hell. No way would that ever go through to be a real JA, and for those that say "Well it would loose all of its JA effects and stat effects" I again point to, why would you want to gimp yourself and your spell use just to use any spell you want for a small window of duration, when if you were a smart BLU that thought ahead of what you were setting out to do, you would of already equipped it to begin with and actually have the gear, JA, and stats to back up the spells of your choosing.

[Kwate]

However that intention was implemented years ago, and before seeing how BLU's are truly utilized by it's player base. Recently SE has done a decent job at listening to player feedback on certain matters which is evident by how they modified jobs post 75. Who cares if it's similar to SCH 2hr, it's an effective ability, all of our traits are taken off other jobs, is this stopping you from equipping/stacking them?

[Yugl]

I'm a 90 SCH, I do know lol, the only difference is the charges, and based off of my debate with Perfect Dodge Vs invincible thats a fair returning contradiction to my statement, yet you basically are asking to the full aspects of the spell list as does Tabula Rasa now, but again, stratagems is what separates it. Mkay thats fair, so lets move onto the proposed idea here, so your saying in order to use all of the spells, you would be content with loosing all the JAs you have as well as the Stat boosts (literally gimping your spells, and possibly loosing your TP for any of us that are dual wielding and not /NIN or /DNC) in order to use a spell? This sounds like a good idea how? And too who? We can debate how close the 2hrs are and blah blah blah blah blah, nobody cares, the bare fact is, its down right stupid to use the full spell list because well....

I'm not sure if you guys woke up in some dream land, but as soon as they gave blue magic points, they had no intention of ever letting us use the full list of blue magic spells, and this should be extremely evident by blue magic spell combinations giving us JAs as well as stats. For a JA that would give us all stats from every spell, as well as all JAs from every possible spell combination..... well I'm sorry but that is down right a cold day in hell. No way would that ever go through to be a real JA, and for those that say "Well it would loose all of its JA effects and stat effects" I again point to, why would you want to gimp yourself and your spell use just to use any spell you want for a small window of duration, when if you were a smart BLU that thought ahead of what you were setting out to do, you would of already equipped it to begin with and actually have the gear, JA, and stats to back up the spells of your choosing.

SCH's locked spells are obtained by accessing an art + addendum. Using the art comes with benefits. Furthermore, you still need to change to the art to use the respective stratagems. I don't see the issue with SE implementing similar restrictions in which we can access any spell without gaining the JT/stats from spells not currently set (Similar to how you do not gain arts benefits when not on the right arts).

[Scuro]

Its almost like I forgot this is a SCH discussion... Oh wait.... its not, k I'm glad we clarified that, anyway point is, its not worth introducing as a job trait because either:
A. The balancing for such a trait would be broken
B. The spells over all JAs and stats would be greatly gimped

What you are neglecting to point out is that while yes it could be that we keep the traits and stats we have on current spells and the rest could have no stat or JA +'s just the ability of the use that is not exactly the way it works with our spells. So while it works in SCH land, because they do not gain JA's or stats through their spells regardless of addendum or art (the change in stratagem name is not at all what I'm addressing so don't get smart with me). Again this is pointless, if you are a smart BLU, you know how to work with what you are given. Plan ahead, gear ahead, set spells ahead, if that is an issue for you, your in the wrong job class and should go play SCH or RDM, maybe even PUP.

The object is that while we can do just about everything as a BLU, we are not meant to do everything, we specialize to have over all effective play. Sometimes we give ourselves well rounded spells, but for the most part, you utilize your spells based on a particular specialty, not to use all of them.

In short, this JA would make the job easier, and spoil players from being smart players to being players that depend on such a JA. I strongly am against such a JA, because the last thing I need is more fat and lazy BLU's that full time +2 gear and such at this job. For the love of altana, lets keep this job challenging so not every stupid shmuck that likes to dd and cast magic can play this job.

[Kwate]

No one mentioned SCH prior to you bringing it up. So you start the discussion now you want to end it? Scuro you're really making a bigger deal than it needs to be. It's not the pink BLU's asking for this ability, it's the career BLU's. Gimpness is part of the game, it's a reality you have to accept, but us career BLU's shouldn't have to be punished because of that. Here are some examples:


We're gonna get more set points at 91 and I'm sure Job Merits 3 will have something like assimilation. I have access to everything I need except when I'm trying to proc. That can be fixed by adding double or quad proc spells or accepting the fact that we're the most powerful job in the game and we gotta take a nerf every now and then to keep the other jobs from getting pissed off at us. I'm good with either.

-- Edit --

I would, however, like to see the 2hr give us access to our full spell list and all the atributes and traits that go with it.


I like that idea, a JA that lets us use any spell from our library once. I don't think it would be overpowered.


a JA with a 5 min recast that allows you to cast any spell not set is more realistic, without the mods.

All 3 from career BLU's, while there is some opposition against this, I think it's truly something the Dev team can consider with their own twist it if they like.

[Defiledsickness]

regardless of how similar it may be to other jobs, an ability allowing you to use any spell would certainly benefit a Blue mage. i enjoy Efflux and Chain Affinity the most and would love another dmg boosting spell such as those, but any new ability is always welcome. I wouldnt be surprised at something to enhance magical spells like Efflux does for the physical ones tho. especially with Charged Whisker, our AF3 feet/hands, and soon to come; thunderbolt.

anything is good though, they dont seem to forget about us blu's ^^