ranger needs a new 2hr

[Dawnn]

post some ideas in this thread since the lame excuse of a 2hr "Eagle Eye Shot" is easily outdamaged by higher level weaponskills

[Feliciaa]

Flurry Shot - For the next 30 seconds your ranged attacks will fire in the form of Barrage.

30 seconds of a barrage that last longer then 1 shot. Who needs DRK or MNK to zerg when you have a RNG? ^^

[Alkalinehoe]

I liked my idea for the new 2hrs thread.

Blackout - Fires every single arrow in your ammo slot at one opponent. Enmity is reset for the RNG.

[noodles355]

I liked my idea for the new 2hrs thread.

Blackout - Fires every single arrow in your ammo slot at one opponent. Enmity is reset for the RNG.

Are you *** insane? You realise that would do 20-30k damage. Don't you think it's maybe a little overpowered?

[Lecia]

well, Not sure really for a new 2hour so much as adding some more JA's as well...

couple ideas i have in mind for that would be
-a ranged attack that stuns the target
-an ability to increase movement speed for a short duration while also increasing Evasion or -mdt.(every game with a ranger class has this but ff.)
-TRAPS (this is mentioned in another topic, but the idea of a trapper is very intriguing. esp if the traps were to add debuffs like blind/poison/slow/gravity)
-an ability that either heals you or removes a status ailment (rng is a master of the wild, removing ailments should be natural to them)
-an ability that can add an element to your arrow attacks. Such as Flame Arrow but actually being fire dmg and every shot for the duration being fire dmg on ur arrow. Hits for 200, addition dmg 25. for example.

again, I'm not really sure what you could do to replace EES, Enhance its dmg or lower it to a standard JA. I think these abilities i mentioned would also be great for just JA's. for EES replacement I really don't feel DMG is the way to go. Everything else does damage so why not make a sustained effect or enfeeble.. or both?

no name...
~for 30 seconds all projectiles will inflict, poison/slow/bind/bio/blind/paralyze/slow/gravity/defense down/attack down/accuracy down



sorry is best i got atm...

[Fyreus]

Quad damage with no level correction please! If not, 100% recycle with berserk so my cp (hope this gets an update) arrow can go to work :D

[Dart]

jesus just unnerf rng already so the emo stops

[Mirabelle]

Are you batshit insane? You realise that would do 20-30k damage. Don't you think it's maybe a little overpowered?

Nothing wrong with an instakill button every 2 hrs lol.
I think they should make it: Fires every arrow in your ammo slot but with barrage type calculation (once a miss occurs it stops firing). So there would be a 0.006 chance they'd all hit but it would be fabulous.

[Vortex]

Nothing wrong with an instakill button every 2 hrs lol.
I think they should make it: Fires every arrow in your ammo slot but with barrage type calculation (once a miss occurs it stops firing). So there would be a 0.006 chance they'd all hit but it would be fabulous.

Or you know..just don't do something that insanly overpowerd..

May as well just give them a 2 hour that shoots a "death" arrow that won't be broken at all, nope.

If people are going to TRY to come up with an idea, let's try to make it more realistic and not retarded.

We already have to many bandwagon jobs like MNK and NIN as of late, last thing i want to see is everyone and there mother trying to level rng for some stupid death shot 2 hour idea.

[Alkalinehoe]

Are you batshit insane? You realise that would do 20-30k damage. Don't you think it's maybe a little overpowered?
With NMs having higher HP 20-30k isn't that broken. Especially for a 2hr ability.

[Mirage]

Wouldn't it be enough to just update EES to not becoming inferior to other WSes as the ranger levels up?

Also, maybe it should have 100% (or 99%) accuracy? Most other two-hours won't be wasted if one of your attacks misses. It seems unfair that ranger's two hour, which is a single, high damage shot, is still subject to the same accuracy cap as any of their other attacks

Alternatively, give it more hits as the ranger levels up. This could be part of "make it stronger than other WSes" I mentioned earlier. More hits will reduce the chances of a complete miss significantly.

Considering that ranger is obviously meant to be a damage dealer, and other DDs can now deal over 5000 damage per WS in abyssea, it wouldn't be unfair if EES could deal upwards of 7-8000 damage in there. I don't even have Ukko's on my war, but my RRs still occasionally reach 5000 damage. Why shouldn't rng be able to do more than that with their 2hour?

[Shadobi]

Ballistic Sagitta: Ranged attacks are shot instantly, each range attack causes a knockback effect on target.
Recast Time: 2:00:00
Duration: 0:00:30
*TP gain is reduced.
*Range accuracy is reduced.
*Range attack is reduced.
*Range attacks cannot be interrupted upon moving.

New Job Abilities

Sniper Sight: Fire double the distance of the maxed range.
Recast Time: 0:03:00
Duration: 0:01:00
*Range delay is increased.
*Range attacks are critical hit damage.
*Range accuracy slightly increased.
*Weapon skills can be fired double the distance of the maxed range with Sniper sight activated.

Salvage Hunt: Retrieve limited ammunition used on target.
Recast Time: 0:03:00
Duration: Instant
*Can only retrieve ammunition used after target is dead.
*Can only retrieve ammunition from what was used in your inventory.
*Ability must be used before fallen target disappears.
*Limited amount of ammunition can be salvaged not what was completely used.

[Myrrh]

With NMs having higher HP 20-30k isn't that broken. Especially for a 2hr ability.


How do you see that as being a good idea? My arrows hit from like 200-600 dmg, times that by 99 and make it hate free. You think that's a reasonable two hour ability? Are you stoned?

Used in Abyssea. Let's say 600 dmg a shot. That's roughly 60k dmg. HATE FREE. Oh, I have a Revit, 120k dmg in a couple of seconds hate free.

Ya, nothing wrong with that.

Outside of Abyssea, let's say 400 dmg a shot. That's roughly 40k dmg, again, hate free. Oh, I have a Cor with me. 80k Dmg right there. Yep, not broken.

Man, why hasn't SE added this completely legit idea.

[Alkalinehoe]

How do you see that as being a good idea? My arrows hit from like 200-600 dmg, times that by 99 and make it hate free. You think that's a reasonable two hour ability? Are you stoned?

Used in Abyssea. Let's say 600 dmg a shot. That's roughly 60k dmg. HATE FREE. Oh, I have a Revit, 120k dmg in a couple of seconds hate free.

Ya, nothing wrong with that.

Outside of Abyssea, let's say 400 dmg a shot. That's roughly 40k dmg, again, hate free. Oh, I have a Cor with me. 80k Dmg right there. Yep, not broken.

Man, why hasn't SE added this completely legit idea.
Cause you know, our current 2hr which deals 1/10 of a WAR's average non-2hr'd WS in abyssea is so totally not broken. Hey look, I can use sarcasm too.

Obviously there would be a need for adjustments, say an acc cap, aftermaths not affecting it, etc. Or even changing all of your current ammunition to 1/4, so the max possible is 25 in one shot. And besides, if you were a competent RNG you would be capping hate quickly via WS anyways. RNGs are DDs that have been strongly focused on spike damage much of the time (except for Holy Bolt builds which have become obsolete now).

[mike328947]

what SE really need to do? they need to change 2hr to 1hr ability instead.

[Cdryik]

Eagle Eye's,
Your AIM your target, increasing for 1 min your critical hit rate (+50%) and Ranged Attack (+50%) and bound you also for 60 secondes.
____________________________

Rafale,
Your Ranged Attack and ranged attack speed is increase by 50% for 60 seconds durations

___________________________

Deadly Strike,
Physical Attack that deal damage over time (poison) at 50TP/tick For 2 Minutes, if the target isn't dead at the end of the DoT the ammo in the target's body will explode dealing Massive Magicial Damage

[Dekoda]

Wouldn't it be enough to just update EES to not becoming inferior to other WSes as the ranger levels up?

I agree. EES needs an update, not a replacement. Even making it a forced critical would be a nice addition in Abyssea, lol. I seriously hardly ever need to use EES, it's best use is as a claiming tool when Shadowbind/Bounty Shot aren't up...

[noodles355]

There are much worse 2hr abilities than Eagle Eye Shot. Yes, I would love if it had an update too, but people need to stop comparing every shitty two-hour ability to Hundred Fists and Mighty Strikes.

[Mirage]

And chainspell, and manafont, and spirit surge, and meikyo shisui, and even perfect dodge. RNG is a DD, their 2hour is supposed to deal a lot of damage, but it doesn't. Just because a few other 2hours aren't super good, doesn't mean rng's doesn't need a buff.

[Romanova]

Wouldn't it be enough to just update EES to not becoming inferior to other WSes as the ranger levels up?

Also, maybe it should have 100% (or 99%) accuracy? Most other two-hours won't be wasted if one of your attacks misses. It seems unfair that ranger's two hour, which is a single, high damage shot, is still subject to the same accuracy cap as any of their other attacks




100% agree. It doesn't need a new one, the idea that a rng's 2 hour does a burst of dmg makes a lot of sense. The problem is that burst doesn't scale, and it should. having it less than 100% makes it retarded as as well. Fix those two things and there shouldn't be any issue with EES.

[noodles355]

And chainspell, and manafont, and spirit surge, and meikyo shisui, and even perfect dodge. RNG is a DD, their 2hour is supposed to deal a lot of damage, but it doesn't. Just because a few other 2hours aren't super good, doesn't mean rng's doesn't need a buff.Perfect Dodge? Are you serious?
Also no, Spirit Surge is not awesome. It's a good 2hr ability, but it's not awesome. Because whilst it gives 25% Haste, it is magic haste, and is lost to the Magic Haste cap as soon as you through Marches and Haste spell into the mix. In a zerg all it does is give you some extra STR and reset your Jump timers. Except in a zerg you don't have time to use all the JAs anyway. Last time I fought AV, by the time I had used Sekka, Med, Spirit and Soul Jump (And WSs between of course) he was almost dead. After spirit surging to reset jump timers I didn't actually have time to use them again before he died.

And perfect dodge? A good 2hr? Don't make me laugh.

[Mirage]

Better than EES. But sure, it's not as good anymore now that there aren't many things thf isn't capping evasion on anyway.

As for spirit surge being magical haste, what would be a better choice? with hasso up you'd lose 10% of spirit surge's haste from the JA haste cap. Gear haste is usually close to cap as well. I can think of plenty of situations where I don't have both double march and haste spell on me.

Sounds like you're saying all 2hours which aren't perfect for a fully buffed zerg run is a bad 2hour.

[Mirabelle]

May as well just give them a 2 hour that shoots a "death" arrow that won't be broken at all, nope.

I've seen SMN do some pretty insane crap with Odin and no one calls them broken. I've heard of some pretty insan damage from Jishnu's rdiance and Wildfire and no one says thats broken. A 0.6% chance every two hours of 30k damage is hardly broken. But I'm not demanding such a change i just happen to think it would be fun because of the random nature of it. But I'm a COR at heart so randomness is my life lol.

[Mirabelle]

How do you see that as being a good idea? My arrows hit from like 200-600 dmg, times that by 99 and make it hate free. You think that's a reasonable two hour ability? Are you stoned?

If you worked it like barrage and didn't allow crits into the equation, your chance at hitting full 99 would be 0.6%. Most of the time you'd hit for 10k or less. Maybe a bit broken but compared to what a DRK zerg used to do, not so insane.

[Alkalinehoe]

There are much worse 2hr abilities than Eagle Eye Shot. Yes, I would love if it had an update too, but people need to stop comparing every shitty two-hour ability to Hundred Fists and Mighty Strikes.
I wasn't. I was comparing how it was drastically weaker than WAR's average WS, without 2hr.

[noodles355]

Better than EES. But sure, it's not as good anymore now that there aren't many things thf isn't capping evasion on anyway.

As for spirit surge being magical haste, what would be a better choice? with hasso up you'd lose 10% of spirit surge's haste from the JA haste cap. Gear haste is usually close to cap as well. I can think of plenty of situations where I don't have both double march and haste spell on me. JA Haste or Equipment haste would be better. JA haste would allow you to go from 78.5 to 80% haste. Gear haste would allow you to wear non-aste DD gear, similar to when a Drk uses Catastrophe.

And EES is still better than Perfect Dodge. EES if nothing else gives a little extra damage every 2hrs. Perfect Dodge does sweet FA.

[FANCY60]

that was nice lol but too powerful what about this FREE RANGE ^^
description will be for 30sec you can fire with out consuming ammo and increases rate of crit hits for the duration

I liked my idea for the new 2hrs thread.

Blackout - Fires every single arrow in your ammo slot at one opponent. Enmity is reset for the RNG.

[FANCY60]

its was an opinion please stop attacking an idea good or bad. if you dont like it, fine come up with yours and stop the hate please grow up

How do you see that as being a good idea? My arrows hit from like 200-600 dmg, times that by 99 and make it hate free. You think that's a reasonable two hour ability? Are you stoned?

Used in Abyssea. Let's say 600 dmg a shot. That's roughly 60k dmg. HATE FREE. Oh, I have a Revit, 120k dmg in a couple of seconds hate free.

Ya, nothing wrong with that.

Outside of Abyssea, let's say 400 dmg a shot. That's roughly 40k dmg, again, hate free. Oh, I have a Cor with me. 80k Dmg right there. Yep, not broken.

Man, why hasn't SE added this completely legit idea.

[Lokithor]

Gatling Shot. Consider this a rng chainspell. Duration 1 min. Extreme reduction of delay between ranged attacks. The delay should be reduced so as to allow maybe 20 shots to be fired in that time. Note that this could be combined with Camo and/or Decoy shot to reduce the chance of taking a dirt nap half way through.

The delay reduction could be a set % of equipped ranged delay. This would probably balance the damage between high delay weapons (which are normally higher damage) and low delay weapons.

And keep EES but make it a JA on a 5 or 10 min timer.

[Economizer]

Now, I'm basing my numbers on what other people are saying, so if 20-30k isn't the damage that could be done with it, shoot them in the foot, not me.


With NMs having higher HP 20-30k isn't that broken. Especially for a 2hr ability.

Ranger parties say hi. SE didn't want a party of Scholars to be able to instantly kill Absolute Virtue which has somewhere south of 70k HP if I'm not mistaken, so why would Ranger be any different? Granted, Rangers would need to use their two hours, but four-six Rangers shooting at the same time could easily kill most mobs if they could do 20-30k damage.

I think Shinryu has somewhere south of 70k HP too, which would mean you could do Shinyru without a brew by getting a Monk/White Mage pair to proc Blue and four Rangers to instakill Shinryu before he could start to absorb damage.

Edit: This could even be considered balanced by some definition probably, but I just want to make sure it is clear how powerful this could be. I'm not saying Ranger should or should not get this as a two hour, just stating some numbers.

[Alkalinehoe]

Old post is old but yes later throughout the thread I agreed that it could be possibly reworked to shoot maybe a max of 20-25 arrows to not be too overwhelming.

[Catsby]

Just speed up the animation and make EES go off like 3 times. no hate. no need to get fancy

[Ezekieal]

i think somebody said this already but could just make it 100% critical and hateless, would boost dmg a lot especially in abyssea.

[Myrrh]

its was an opinion please stop attacking an idea good or bad. if you dont like it, fine come up with yours and stop the hate please grow up

So, wouldn't it be my opinion that his opinion is wrong and thus you telling me to stop the hate and grow up make you a hypocrite? Way to be rude.

[Mirabelle]

I would certainly welcome some game balancing for 2HR abilities since there is a big difference between the haves (Chainspell, Hundred Fists, Azure Lore, Astral Flow, Wild Card, Meiko Shusyo etc) and have nots (EES, Perfect Dodge, Spirit Surge, Mijn Gakure, etc).

But I'd also say that fixing RNG 2HR is the least of the jobs needs right now. Ammo issues, falling behind in DD potential, enmity issues all require fixing before the devs focus on 2HR abilities.

[noodles355]

Spirit Surge
Spirit Surge was almost good. Then Spirit and Soul Jump came along and made the JA Delay and recast timers not worth the damage you lost over that short period in a zerg.

(In a zerg with SV March, Magic haste will be capped, all you will gain is 25STR (@75, not sure on the number you get at 90?) and Jump timers reset, except you cant (or rather shouldnt use spirit/soul jump as your wyvern wont be out and you wont get the 2/3 TP bonus or auto crit.

Debateably, the minimal damge bonus you gain isn't worth the loss you lose in a zerg through JA delay.

If Spirit Surge made your jumps act as if they had the wyvern out (not rediculous as Spirit surge = "you and your wyvern combined") and give ths spirit/soul bonuses during the 2hr (the bonuses are with the wyvern out, but during 2hr you combine with the wyvern meaning surely you have your own abilities and the wyverns combined into one?) then it'd be worthwile.
As it is, in every zerg I've passed recently, after the innitial Meditate/Soul/Spirit Jump, Swinign fr 100%TP has ben better parsed damage than 2hr'ing to reset jump timers pretty much due to JA delay.
Yeah jump reset adds 2 hits but the JA delay offsets that when you could just be swinging at 75-78% haste.

[Shiyo]

Eagle eye shot is a barrage on a 2 hour cooldown, completely unacceptable.

[Economizer]

I would certainly welcome some game balancing for 2HR abilities since there is a big difference between the haves (Chainspell, Hundred Fists, Azure Lore, Astral Flow, Wild Card, Meiko Shusyo etc) and have nots (EES, Perfect Dodge, Spirit Surge, Mijn Gakure, etc)

I really don't know how Mijin Gakure could be listed as a have not, when it is easily one of the best abilities a Ninja has compared to other jobs that tank. Every time White Mages talk about a new ability to mitigate Weakened, or even improving Benediction (which imo, is underwhelming for a two hour given the shear lack of status ailments it cures despite the description) the inevitable direction is how it would nerf Ninja's two hour. While I definitely think adding a Reraise effect to Mijin Gakure would be nice, it is currently a very nice effect, considering.

I've also listened to Blue Mages complain about Azure Lore until the planned updates for the next version update were announced.

[Catsby]

Eagle eye shot is a barrage on a 2 hour cooldown, completely unacceptable.

barrage gives you a ton of tp too :/

[Shiyo]

barrage gives you a ton of tp too :/
True, barrage is actually better than eagle eye shot.........

x_x

[Mirabelle]

True, barrage is actually better than eagle eye shot.........

x_x

Yes once you get past the wooden arrow stage.

[esoR]

just gonna say, as a realistic new 2hr, 30 seconds of 100% rapid shot would be awesome. you could stack it with decoy,camo,barrage,etc. it's been said a few times before, but its clearly the best all around solution. hundred fists is wasted on mnk now days, but if you put it on rng? thats a whole different story.

it still requires skill and timing to use, synergyze's with subs, and rng's set bonus. probably the same dmg output as you would have with a super barrage, while giving the player more control.

thoughts?

[Atoreis]

Ok so I was just watching "The Last Samurai" again and this Katsumoto's son was shooting with a bow like with some machine gun. I tho to myself "Damn he has like 90% Snapshot or 100% Rapid shot". Then I tho "that's it! That should be RNG 2hr!". 100% Rapid shot activation for next 1 or 2min. That would be awesome imo.

[Alkalinehoe]

With 100% snapshot you are still going to have to deal with the issue when you get hate, then pause while the tank gets it's attention back, and then we have a wasted 2hr. I would like the 2hr to be enmity free or at least address this issue. Maybe 100% snapshot and allow you to hit the sweet spot at any distance.

[Swords]

Arrow Barrage- Unleash a salvo of arrows confusing the enemy from finding the source.
Duration: 1(maybe up too 3) Minute/s

+50% Snapshot
+20% Sweet Spot Range
+50-75% Chance to Negate Enmity Generation per shot. (Can't have 100% there has to be at least a little risk to using a 2hr)

[esoR]

just to clarify, 100% rapid shot rate would perform very similarly to the snapshot boosts you guys are suggesting.

if you just tp during the 2hr and dont ws, with -enmity gear, decoy shot, camouflage, and standing at range in the sweet spot, you arent going to pull that much hate.. but maybe -25/30 enmity while under 2hr sounds very nice.

it plays out like so:
sharp shot > double-shot > decoy > 2hr > camo:

% of enmity is offset, you'd be -50/55 enmity from 2hr/camo. you wont be taking attention off the tank with all that active.

more sweet-spot distance isnt totally required, and it removes some of the challenge.. at least for archery, for marksmanship the whole sweet-spot needs to be pushed back out of melee range.

(maybe a seperate stance/ability to hit sweet-spot from far away would be beneficial. that sounds like something we'd need more than every 2hrs)

[Economizer]

more sweet-spot distance isnt totally required

Even if there is another ability that does it, it would be nice if whatever 2hour ability Ranger has makes however many shots it does perform like they are shot from ideal range. I don't know if the current Ranger 2hour does this or not, but if it doesn't, it should.

[noodles355]

Even if they dont completely change the 2 hour ability, they should at least change it so it can't bloody miss. Rediculous.

[Lumiya]

All of you seem to be going all out with this idea. Honestly I would just be happy if EES was a forced critical with 100% accuracy and 5.0x damage modifier. Would be a pretty easy fix that in no way would be overpowering. However at that point it would still actually be worth using at least.

Logic behind the modifiers to change is just to make sure it is something that -finally- beats the other basic weapon skills. I remember years ago when I first got Sidewinder and realized it did more than my EES; I cried. I also remembering seeing LL running around unclaimed, going up to him, popping off my 2hr, and it missing. -.-;

[esoR]

ranger is currently the only DD job who's 2hr lasts 1 hit. infact, aside from smn's odin/alex it is the only 2hr that is lost immediately. almost every other 2hr has the possibility of dealing massive DoT, even on spike dmg jobs. adjusting EES to a crit slugshot will likely just be forgotten in a few levels. then we'd be right back here complaining about it.

[Lumiya]

I'm sorry, but I have to completely disagree with that. Mijin Gakure is also only a single hit. Beyond that fact, almost every 2hr is situational or worthless. Mighty Strikes is amazing, I won't lie. Hundred Fists can put out some great damage as well. Spirit Surge is pretty weak honestly, I use it from time to time but it is nothing ground breaking. Blood Weapon is only useful in certain situations with the right setup and good support while using the right weapon and only on difficult enemies that haven't been made in the past three years since everything newer builds resistance to it quickly and most of the old enemies are a joke now anyway; in other words, limited use at best. Perfect Dodge is kind of a joke, I do use it if I'm in danger of dying, but that is the only use and you can still die with it up, or die 30s later. Familiar is also a very sketchy and situational 2hr. Mijin Gakure is only really a weakness removal; useful but limited. Meikyo Shisui is also one of the more useful 2hr. Azure Lore was changed to be better and I still think it is pretty awful. I've used Trance from time to time, it is a good life saver, but it is a support only 2hr on a job that makes a good DD. Wild Card is just random, hard to really give it much credit. Astral Flow is extremely situational as well, and not really much of a damage improvement over normal BP; Alexander is one of the better niche uses for it. I won't go much into mages as the focus seems to mostly be on comparing DD 2hr, though I know BLM and RDM can do decent damage with both of theirs if they can live.

So, in a nutshell for DD 2hr; WAR is amazing and by far the most broken 2hr in the game. MNK/SAM are both good. DNC/SMN are only really support. DRG/BLU both boost damage slightly. DRK/THF/NIN/BST/COR are all extremely situational.

Now if you consider that the only 2hr in the game that have ever been changed(that I recall) are DRG and BLU, you will notice neither is on par with the best DD 2hr. Both are useful to boost damage slightly, but they won't absolutely decimate anything like WAR does, nor will they drop 10k+ damage easy like SAM or MNK. So I truly think that is about the damage range any changes to EES would put it at.

Some of the idea's posed here earlier are just plain absurd. Any barrage-type change would just be overpowering. I even think the high Rapid Shot/Snapshot increases would be overpowering. I'm just incredibly curious how much damage you all normally do per shot if you think changes like this would not break the game for RNG; likewise why so many of you seem to think RNG is just an awful DD.

[esoR]

forgot about mijin's damage, so it slipped my mind. as far as comparing to other DD only 2hrs, (MNK/WAR/SAM/DRK/DRG) these are the abilities i was talking about competing with. and as for the barrage argument, adding any more to that abil is just wasting ammo (which unlike other dd's is finite.) drg's can be used a a semi berserk/meditate, on top of all your jump timers being reset, that's a big chunk of damage in a short time, up there with sam's.

in a capped haste situation, hundred fists would actually slow you down. really the only one thats rediculously broken is war, in the sense that in 30 seconds they could do upwards of 30k damage (outside of abyss) currently there's no one job which could compare with that.. atm the best dmg a rng can put out will put you up behind drg, not using an OaT weapon. except without the haste and melee hits that drg benefits from.

removing or severely reducing the animation for drawing the ranged weapon and aiming for a short amount of time is nowhere as broken as the other DD 2hrs, especially since we lack any other way to speed up our dmg outside of velocity shot and pre-shot gear, which is marginal at best.

assuming snapshot effect will never be added to haste, 90% of rng are still severely behind any other dd in a competing situation. (if you want to compete with other DD's you are probably going to be meleeing)

anyway.. rng isnt a bad DD, but it is a neglected one. the only place rng has seen usefulness is high tier VW imo. even there, i'd probably bring a cor instead of a rng.

[Economizer]

Now if you consider that the only 2hr in the game that have ever been changed(that I recall) are DRG and BLU, you will notice neither is on par with the best DD 2hr. Both are useful to boost damage slightly, but they won't absolutely decimate anything like WAR does, nor will they drop 10k+ damage easy like SAM or MNK. So I truly think that is about the damage range any changes to EES would put it at.


I don't know the complete list, but Ninja's two hour was definitely adjusted a lot. Scholar, and arguably Summoner have also had changes to their two hour abilities changed.

[noodles355]

drg's can be used a a semi berserk/meditate, on top of all your jump timers being reset, that's a big chunk of damage in a short time, up there with sam's. I'm sorry but it isn't. Spirit Surge resets your jump timers, but dismisses your wyvern, meaning soul and spirit jump become worthless and you end up using Jump/High Jump, which return normal TP and do very average damage. I don't know where you're getting it's anything like berserk, it only givres 20Str. The haste from it is classified as Magic Haste, and whilst that means times without a bard it is awesome, as soon as you get a bard (zergs) it doesn't do anything. The cure is good, but restoring breath recovers about half of it every 1 minute, and if you have time to let a mob wail on you to the point you'd need to 2hr and not breath for HP, then you could have spent that time engaging, letting the wyvern get in a melee attack then super jumping hate onto it and running away.

Spirit Surge is a decent 2hr, but it has a few flaws that makes it not exceptional. For example, if they made Spirit and Soul jumps act as if the wyvern was present during spirit surge, it would be awesome. If they changed the magic haste to JA haste, it would be supremely awesome.

[Lumiya]

I have to agree with noodles about Spirit Surge. It has never really been that amazing of a 2hr, but it is definately a bonus over Call Wyvern. It just simply won't keep up with the other top three in damage though. As for Hundred Fists, you're right, it can be quite worthless sometimes. Depends if you're in a full zerg setup or just doing popping it for the extra damage really. In a zerg setup though, the only good DD 2hr at all are WAR/SAM, and DRK -if- you're fighting something you can Blood Weapon effectively. Considering there are 10+ DD's in the game depending on your classification of one, that isn't really a justifiable reason to make RNG do better than everyone else.

I am still am curious what kind of damage most other RNG here do though. I don't play the new content, I quit end game shells a long time ago. However in Abyssea I know my RNG is one of my top DD's, and I have leveled them all. I don't have Rudra's, Ukko's, Victory Smite, or Hi, but I also don't have Jishnu's. My RNG still preforms better than most of them, except my WAR and maybe my MNK. I just keeping of the suggested 'super barrage' 2hr or the 'hundred arrows' idea as being so far beyond broken.

If I could do an extra 7-10k with my 2hr instantly, I would be extremely happy. That is why I suggested the critical Slugwinder, as I would estimate it doing around that much damage. However since my normal Barrage already comes close to that point, anything firing more than 10 arrows at once would be far too good in my eyes. When I can get normal shots up to and over 1k, being able to fire off ~15 additional ones in a 30s window also seems to be too good. For a full af3+2 and Gandiva RNG, I would imagine something like 100% Rapid Shot for 30s would let them drop more damage in 30s than Mighty Strikes could even touch.

Again though, I am curious how much damage other RNG do. I've tried estimating my #s if my gear was better, but that isn't the same as actually having people with that better gear telling me. So where do decked RNG stand these days?

[esoR]

spirit surge also augment jump/HJ to do extra traits (lower def/reduce tp etc) and in that case, its still a semi hasso.. the bigger point was, under 2hr, DRG have a ton of tp generation on top of the ridiculous output they already have.

i believe war/sam/drk/drg/mnk and rng overall SHOULD produce similar damage. if we're allowed to deal that kind of damage outside of aoe range, than rng has earned their place back in the ranks of good dds.

[Lumiya]

Honestly, the extra big of haste during Spirit Surge really isn't that amazing. It is nice, sure, but you only wind up getting about an extra 3-7 hits out of it depending on how much time you spend using WS/JA. However as stated by noodles, the delay reduction is moot if you get capped magic haste from support jobs. As for the bonus to Jump/High Jump, the defense down doesn't stack with Angon and the TP lost from High Jump is a one time thing making it rather minor. It truly just is not amazing, but still better than Call Wyvern so I have no complaints really.

Generally dealing damage, not during zergs, RNG really is above most of the other DD. Even during zergs as it stands I would say they beat at least half of them, outside of the ones mentioned earlier. However I really don't think RNG damage is the issue anymore, RNG enmity it. Yes our 2hr needs a boost badly, but I am otherwise happy with the damage output of RNG. The only issue in my eyes besides a minor boost to EES is just hate control.

The fact we can't operate efficiently at our ideal range for long gets hold, and pulling hate so easily makes the benefits of RNG moot. So far Decoy Shot hasn't even impressed me that much, and I still notice myself pulling hate far too easily. I almost wish that enmity would scale for ranged attacks based on distance, so as we go further out we generate less hate. Though I think the best idea I've seen so far for hate adjustments was someone who suggested making ranged attacks VE instead of CE.

[esoR]

i agree with what you're saying, but for the argument of the 2hr alone, it needs a remake to make it even worth using, and if you're doing a remake, it should fit with everything else the job has to offer. on the flip side, it should be overpowered enough to warrant the extremely long cool down.

RNG should be complicated, you should be rewarded for being tactical, with each situation, not punished for it. this whole topic is a minor issue though, the enmity issue should be addressed before all others.

as for the zerg discussion, we are in the fight, but i'm not sure how high in the ranks rng is due to not being calculated like melee. melee ws are subject to DA/TA/QA on top of being multi hit in many cases or multi hit critical in drg's case (the closest competitor) in the time you pull your weapon out for a barrage, unless you get a rapid shot proc, any other job has gotten in 3-5 swings if 2h, and like 8 swings for dual wield, god help you if you're using a gun.. you've lost the game.

i'm starting to think they f-d up ranged enmity specifically and just forgot about it. you can deal less damage than a regular melee and still pull hate off them in successive attacks, and on WS if i do a 2k jishnu, and say a sam does a 3k fudo, i'll probably get hate 4/5 times.. (unless the sam closes light with a 3k SC) these are the things i feel need addressed.

for changing RA to VE as opposed to CE.. would that not slow down the tp phase? since VE is generally always much higher than CE, but decay rate is much much higher. too me it sounds like you'd want to take more time in between shots to let your hate cool down. it's an interesting concept, none the less.

[noodles355]

spirit surge also augment jump/HJ to do extra traits (lower def/reduce tp etc)Fairly irrelevant. In a zerg, you'd throw an angon at the very start anyway, meaning jump's def down does nothing. They don't reduce TP, and even if they did it wouldn't mean a thing because with a few melee swinging at 60-70+ haste, the mob will get 100%TP almost instantly.

I dont even understand how you can say "lower defense and reduce tp... its a semi hasso". Hasso does neither lower defence nor reduce TP. It works as a Hasso+10 if you don't have a bard (Hasso: 7(?) Str, 10% Haste vs 20 Str 25% Haste) and is Hasso-1 if you have a bard (10 Haste 7(?) Str vs 8~% Haste 20 Str).