lolRelic Weapon? SE what have you done?

[Sama]

As title said, SE needs to rethink what they have done and going to do with relic weapon.

Relic is the hardest piece of weapon to obtain and now it turns out to be an laughable topic in game because its weapon skill damage is so weak that most relic owner would just use something else.

As a relic owner I'm terrified and very upset every time I log-on and wield my relic weapon, especially when an emp weapon can easily one-shot an IT aby mob...

Think about it SE, they way it is now it's definitely off balance. People with relic weapon (like me) lost trust in you.

Can you advise? Or at least tell us that this is the way you want relic to be or you will do something about it.

[Randwolf]

...Relic is the hardest piece of weapon to obtain...

Most expensive, not difficult. You may have worked hard to get yours. But, I saw people who barely set foot in Dynamis walking around with multiple weapons. IMHO, I have more respect for Mythic weapons. At least they appear to involve more effort. In fact, I know people who earned their relic through Casino's and, worse, buying gil. So, to point at everyone who has a relic and state 'they put in a lot of effort' is a grand generalization.

[Sama]

Most expensive, not difficult. You may have worked hard to get yours. But, I saw people who barely set foot in Dynamis walking around with multiple weapons. IMHO, I have more respect for Mythic weapons. At least they appear to involve more effort. In fact, I know people who earned their relic through Casino's and, worse, buying gil. So, to point at everyone who has a relic and state 'they put in a lot of effort' is a grand generalization.

You can do the same with Emp Wpn... Just /sh in Jeuno people will sale you any ra/ex item... If you are talking about gil buying then this game is pointless...

I believe most relic owner worked hard on their weapon; those b00b relic owners are likely have bought the account from others; or got from friends. As before lvl75 cap raised, I don't believe you can 'buy' a team to fight the relic NM. You can buy all coins but not the NM... you have to make a team...

[sandman]

They do need to beef up relic weapons.

[Randwolf]

You can do the same with Emp Wpn... Just /sh in Jeuno people will sale you any ra/ex item... If you are talking about gil buying then this game is pointless...

I believe most relic owner worked hard on their weapon; those b00b relic owners are likely have bought the account from others; or got from friends. As before lvl75 cap raised, I don't believe you can 'buy' a team to fight the relic NM. You can buy all coins but not the NM... you have to make a team...
There are merc teams that will do the fight for you. Expensive but possible. And, I'm guessing we'll start seeing a lot more of that with Dynamis being allowed once per day (I believe that is in an upcoming update). There truly is little in the game that you can't get with enough gil. Even the Mythic quests can be bought.

[Unctgtg]

Maybe they will get the idea. Me being a relic own since 2006 and being on top of the DD world, 2 nerfs to my relic, and now being completely pushed to the bottom of the barrel sucks lol.

[Tamarsamar]

Maybe they will get the idea. Me being a relic own since 2006 and being on top of the DD world, 2 nerfs to my relic, and now being completely pushed to the bottom of the barrel sucks lol.

"Bottom of the barrel"? Which one, the elitist barrel?

Seriously, dude, barring Empyrean Weapons (which are, indeed, a problem), you'll still be hard-pressed to find a weapon that performs on-par with a Relic Weapon in terms of raw damage output (and odds are it's a multi-hit weapon in a very specific situation). Perhaps you (among certain other people) are being just a little overly dramatic?

[Sama]

"Bottom of the barrel"? Which one, the elitist barrel?

Seriously, dude, barring Empyrean Weapons (which are, indeed, a problem), you'll still be hard-pressed to find a weapon that performs on-par with a Relic Weapon in terms of raw damage output (and odds are it's a multi-hit weapon in a very specific situation). Perhaps you (among certain other people) are being just a little overly dramatic?

Tamarsamar the WS is the real problem. It's very upsetting for every relic owner, especially font line job, seeing the crazy dmg gap between relic and emp. In terms of raw dmg I agree with you but WS was the main point for relic.

[Tamarsamar]

Tamarsamar the WS is the real problem. It's very upsetting for every relic owner, especially font line job, seeing the crazy dmg gap between relic and emp. In terms of raw dmg I agree with you but WS was the main point for relic.

Apologies for coming off uninformed here, but are people seriously out-performing Relics with equally-leveled Walk of Echoes Empyrean Weapon Skill weapons (say, level 90 Excalibur vs. Badelaire +2)? If so, then your point holds water.

[lowkey]

Every time SE alters the game someone feels like they've been gyped in some way. When they lessened the exp requirement 60+, people said that it undermined all the "hard" work they put into leveling up. When they nerfed the Promys, and fixed it so that you didn't lose exp for dying, people said it cheapened their accomplishment of finishing CoP pre-nerfs. When they released ToAU and blms were no longer "necessary" for efficient parties, blms who had been manaburning only for years, and wouldn't give exp parties the time of day whined that it made them useless. People always threaten to quit in protest, but few do.

When you log into the game there's a warning which says you are agreeing to the TOS by logging in. In that TOS it clearly states that the game is subject to change, with or without notice. That is the nature of all online games.

And just for the record, I'm one of the bsts who got all butthurt when SE nerfed MPK. I said I'd quit. I ranted to anyone who wanted to listen (Or not. Whatever, I didn't care because I was pissed, and wanted everyone to know it, whether they wanted to or not). Turns out we were just acting like spoiled babies. Turns out the change did way more good for everyone including us (especially us), than harm. Turns out the world didn't end, it didn't lead to communists eating the world's supply of kittens, and most importantly that nobody else gave a rat's ass.

[Futan]

Apologies for coming off uninformed here, but are people seriously out-performing Relics with equally-leveled Walk of Echoes Empyrean Weapon Skill weapons (say, level 90 Excalibur vs. Badelaire +2)? If so, then your point holds water.

I know that's the case for Spharai vs Revenant Fists +2. If I remember correctly, RF+2 is somewhere like 5-10% better.

Edit: Just checked on Kinematic's spreadsheet, using the default gear/atmas(RR,GH,Apoc) of the spreadsheet and only changing WS and weapon, level 90 Spharai score 269.641 while Revenant Fists +2 score 297.302. Which is about 10.3% better. And to throw it all out there, the 90 Verethagna are 321.868, the 85 Verethagna are 308.525, and Revenant Fists +1 are 289.707.

[Randwolf]

And just for the record, I'm one of the bsts who got all butthurt when SE nerfed MPK. I said I'd quit. I ranted to anyone who wanted to listen (Or not. Whatever, I didn't care because I was pissed, and wanted everyone to know it, whether they wanted to or not). Turns out we were just acting like spoiled babies. Turns out the change did way more good for everyone including us (especially us), than harm. Turns out the world didn't end, it didn't lead to communists eating the world's supply of kittens, and most importantly that nobody else gave a rat's ass.
I hated it because, prior to S/E dealing aggressively with RMT, BST was the only job RMT feared.

[Andevom]

People just don't want other people having stuff they have. It's the name of the game with MMORPGs. The thought of someone getting some easily that you worked hard for annoys you. But it shouldn't undermine your past efforts.

It's like saying you don't approve of people delivering mail by plane, because there were so many hard working horseback mail carriers. The result is the same, it's the journey that's different. Take that with you and welcome the newcomers.

[sandman]

I'm glad to see SE making relic's more accessible to casual players.

[Zumi]

I have Excalibur but I not too upset that they aren't the best weapons anymore. Everything seems like a grind though lately.

[Kitkat]

In all honesty, the current situation of Emp weapons and Relic weapons is a little confusing to me. Unless they are planing some type of overhaul or great increase to relic weapons is almost isn't worth the time/effort people put into them in the past. Ochain blocks far more often than Agies, WS dmg is far in excess greater on Emp weapons than with Relic weapons. About the only thing that hasn't changed, is the fact that over-all DoT damage is still higher on Relic than on Emp weapons, but who just dots? With Atma/gear available WS fast and often is name of the game and relics just can't put out the numbers Emp weapons do. In some cases non-relic/Emp WS can put out equal if not slightly better damage also.

I remember the Dev team saying 6 months ago it wasn't their plan to oust Relic weapons due to how difficult they were to obtain, but they have done just that by giving fTP multipliers that destroy Relic WS fTP. Just seems SE is catering a little too much to the casual player recently. A weapon you can make easily (baring no serious competition) in as little as a week stronger than a weapon that takes nearly 3-6 months to gain all upgrade currency for is rather unfair and unbalanced if you ask me.

[Sama]

Apologies for coming off uninformed here, but are people seriously out-performing Relics with equally-leveled Walk of Echoes Empyrean Weapon Skill weapons (say, level 90 Excalibur vs. Badelaire +2)? If so, then your point holds water.

Both Aby and WoE Emp Wpn ws beats relic ws in any ways.

[Alhanelem]

Relic is the hardest piece of weapon to obtain and now it turns out to be an laughable topic in game because its weapon skill damage is so weak that most relic owner would just use something else. Mythic weapons are the hardest to get, not relics.

[Unctgtg]

Both Aby and WoE Emp Wpn ws beats relic ws in any ways.

By quite a few thousand

[Moink]

Relic, Mythic and Empyrean weapons are far from completion, numbers mean nothing in an incomplete world. All I would like to say is be patient and see what SE does in the final stages of 91-99 and see how they compare then.

A relic weapon will be easier to obtain after the version update and probably much cheaper, so maybe it should sit below an empyrean weapon.... who knows...

[Asakari]

Well hello there, i've read and i have to agree to 2 things here, Mythics by far are the hardest weapons to obtain, and prolly yes Emp > Relic on WS numbers.

But why all this rage? I started playing on 2004 and ppl had 1-2relics and were the best fornt line jobs for like 7years or more, empyreans barely have a year existing, and idk why ppl complain more, i've seen ppl with relic and empyrean, empyreans are so easy to make, i have 2 empyreans by that case, all low maned with 6-10ppls, so if u want numbers make an empyrean, and keep ur relic as a Hard work Treasure.

On a side note, There will always be something better to what u currently have or sometimes not, but dont fear to changes.

[Kitheren]

I agree with you... for the most part.

Relics are fairly easy to obtain if you have maybe two million gil.

First, you just have to find enough (competent) people to actually go into Dynamis and not die. You know, BLM, PLD, etc.

Second, state that YOU are the person receiving currency and make it clear.

Do dynamis, blah blah.

When you get currency, work on your current stage. Keep what you need, sell what you don't. Make back the gil for the glass and and set aside the rest of the gil from the sold currency to buy more of what you need. Do for each stage.

That's the easiest way if you are actually going to earn most of your currency for yourself. Otherwise, farm or craft (lol crafting is pretty dead) or whatever to get gil to buy currency. Pay a linkshell for fragment and the necro-thingie (don't look at me like that, I don't own or plan to own a relic so I don't care what it's called) and done and done. No, it isn't always that simple but in THEORY, this is the best way.

Relics take a lot of time and I have respect for a person who has actually EARNED theirs. Read, earned. Not had it handed to them by a linkshell because of whatever reason. Someone who actually has the skill and some of the "decent" gear to back up their new weapon and not look like an idiot. I know how hard it is to get said "decent" gear and that not everyone has those opportunities. But I'm just saying that if you have pretty meh gear with a relic on, people are going to talk. If you don't care, great, I'm proud of you. I, on the other hand, am pretty self conscious.

However, I have more respect for a Mythic holder than a relic holder. It takes a bit more time, energy and tears to get one done. 20k Alex plus the trophies. And then you have to actually WIN the battle at the end? If you lose, you have to get them again. But more of a pain.

I would like to see more upgrades specific to the damage and accuracy of the weapon skill, additional effect and aftermath as well as upgrades to the damage and delay of relic and mythic weapons. So they are at least on par with Empyrean weapons.

Like I said, I am not a relic or mythic holder and as much as I drool over Yagrush, I don't plan on getting it. Not until my gear is up to my standards and my ninja is where it should be. But my husband IS a relic holder and I see how much work he's put into getting his to just 85. We haven't had the time to actually put into finishing it, unfortunately. And the Dynamis thing for his is a pain in the butt.

Anyways, that's my opinion. Take it or leave it.

[Moink]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/237-dev1000-Dynamis-Reborn!

You're going off by what will be old situations... entering Dynamis wont be much of an issue other than the first buy and coins will drops because of the number of coins...

[Kitheren]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/237-dev1000-Dynamis-Reborn!

You're going off by what will be old situations... entering Dynamis wont be much of an issue other than the first buy and coins will drops because of the number of coins...

TBH, I am disappointed with this change. I liked it when relics were more of an accomplishment. At this rate, everyone will have one.

[Moink]

I couldnt agree more

[Alhanelem]

I liked it when it took a jillion hours to make it to level 75. *rolls eyes*
I liked it when CoP was ridiculously hard and no one would help you with it. *rolls eyes*
I liked it when *insert hard thing* got less hard. *rolls eyes*

As the game gets older, it's somewhat necessary to make old content easier, otherwise it's impossible for new players to get to where the current players are. This is a normal part of MMOs. FFXI just did it slower than everyone else, so we got used to how things were.

And revamping dynamis so that reservations aren't required is something people have been asking for for a long time. Why would anyone be disappointed with it? Why does this change automatically mean everyone's going to have a relic weapon? And why is this a problem when some mythics and empyreans are better anyway?

Personally, I don't really ocnsider spamming the same dynamis run 100 times for the last 2 stages any kind of accomplishment. kililng the NMs for the last 2 stages was sort of an accomplishment a while back, but now it's easy with the level cap rise. The new setup and schedule change means you can do dynamis stuff when it suits you, instead of having to be stuck to a rigid schedule. I think it's great.

[Kitheren]

I liked it when it took a jillion hours to make it to level 75. *rolls eyes*
I liked it when CoP was ridiculously hard and no one would help you with it. *rolls eyes*
I liked it when *insert hard thing* got less hard. *rolls eyes*

As the game gets older, it's somewhat necessary to make old content easier, otherwise it's impossible for new players to get to where the current players are. This is a normal part of MMOs. FFXI just did it slower than everyone else, so we got used to how things were.

And revamping dynamis so that reservations aren't required is something people have been asking for for a long time. Why would anyone be disappointed with it? Why does this change automatically mean everyone's going to have a relic weapon? And why is this a problem when some mythics and empyreans are better anyway?

Personally, I don't really ocnsider spamming the same dynamis run 100 times for the last 2 stages any kind of accomplishment. kililng the NMs for the last 2 stages was sort of an accomplishment a while back, but now it's easy with the level cap rise. The new setup and schedule change means you can do dynamis stuff when it suits you, instead of having to be stuck to a rigid schedule. I think it's great.

My biggest problem with the Dynamis update is the fact that it will be harder to get currency. I should have thought throughly about my statements. I apologize and admit I did not think that through.

With most shells, currency is dealt with through a point system. Same with drops. It's easier to obtain an item you want if you have enough points. Although there is almost always someone with more points than you.

This new system will be Heaven.... for people with lot bots.

It will be Hell for people like me who typically have bad luck with lots.

The 24 hour cool down is awesome. I love that. But I liked it when it was just a linkshell affair.

It took me a year and a half to reach 75. But through that I learned how to play my job. I see people who hit 90 in a few weeks on a new job and they have little skill. Not everyone, most people do fine. But some.

I'm happy with most of the future changes. But this really would make it harder to secure enough currency to obtain a relic weapon.

[Alhanelem]

Why would you need lot bots or super lot luck? You think they're going to keep the global loot pool when reservations are removed? I really don't think they will. The'yre changing it to be more like Abyssea, not more like Walk of Echoes (Which is also supposed to be being revamped in the next update as well)

If anything, it will be easier, not harder, to get currency because you wont be dependent on a bunch of other people to help you get it. And with dynamis being cheap as free, currency prices will go down (especially since the strength of empyreans will limit demand)

[Kitheren]

Why would you need lot bots or super lot luck? You think they're going to keep the global loot pool when reservations are removed? I really don't think they will. The'yre changing it to be more like Abyssea, not more like Walk of Echoes (Which is also supposed to be being revamped in the next update as well)

If anything, it will be easier, not harder, to get currency because you wont be dependent on a bunch of other people to help you get it. And with dynamis being cheap as free, currency prices will go down (especially since the strength of empyreans will limit demand)

Hmm, now that I am thinking about it, it makes a bit more sense, with the way you have worded it. Should they remove the global lot pool.. that would be so much better. I seriously pray that they will.

[Moink]

Nothing was mentioned about removing the global pool, I'm going to imagine it will stay.

[Alhanelem]

Just because nothing was mentioned, doesn't mean nothing will change. They know we hate walk of echoes, and they're going to be revamping it. They know it would be stupid to have Dynamis based on that. If they did that, it would just make those areas more dead than they already are.

It would be stupid to imagine it staying, it is not going to be like a battlefield, it is going to be like an abyssea area without the abyssea stuff.

[Kitheren]

Nothing was mentioned about removing the global pool, I'm going to imagine it will stay.

If it stays, I stand by my statement of currency will be hard to get.

But we're talking about Square Enix. Their updates are never completely limited to only what they have stated in a version update preview.

Edit: Square Enix is always changing their mind, just like a normal group of human beings. And like normal human beings, they make mistakes.

[Kitheren]

Just because nothing was mentioned, doesn't mean nothing will change. They know we hate walk of echoes, and they're going to be revamping it. They know it would be stupid to have Dynamis based on that. If they did that, it would just make those areas more dead than they already are.

It would be stupid to imagine it staying, it is not going to be like a battlefield, it is going to be like an abyssea area without the abyssea stuff.

I like you. You, sir (I am assuming because your avatar is a Galka) use logic.

[ZeDingo]

Might as well spit out my idea. Build a Light skillchain, then use a relic ws that has Darkness for Cosmic Elucidation, or vice versa with a Light closer. Like a weak single target Zantetsuken.

[Alhanelem]

Might as well spit out my idea. Build a Light skillchain, then use a relic ws that has Darkness for Cosmic Elucidation, or vice versa with a Light closer. Like a weak single target Zantetsuken.
What does this have to do with anything in this thread?

[ZeDingo]

What does this have to do with anything in this thread?
Because only relics and those charged fake relics have a weaponskill with attribs for Light/Darkness? So only a relic would be able to pull off Cosmic Elucidation. Hence, slight buff.

[DrStrangelove]

Just to reply to a few of the posts here, please do not make up ideas on how weapons MIGHT have been obtained to determine the ease. Yes, its possible to get anything relatively easy if you are willing to cheat. That's not really the point of the thread.

Empys are being created in a matter of weeks all the way to level 90 without buying gil or cheating. Those who read the forums know this is true. It's not true that you can build a relic or mythic in weeks (outside of cheating) and in fact most of them took many months or even a year to make.

SE created the hard work for relic and mythic and the high cost in order to make them rare. Then SE created the WS kill shot method to upgrade them with thousands of mob kills (all requiring what were often weak weapon skills.) Trust me...doing 6-8,000 kill-shots is what many relic owners did.

Then SE created empys and magians...weapons which could be obtained EASILY by a small group of people at no cost. (Actually, some today are being duo-ed or two boxed.) These are weapons that across the board beat out relics and mythics by 10-40% in damage. It WAS a HUGE deal in 2006 when someone had 2 or 3 relics. Today in a matter of months, multiple people have 4 or 5 level 90 empyreans. Others have bunches of level 90 magians, each of which beat relics in abyssea and match them outside of abyssea.

Relics should have been heavily buffed and so should mythics. It's simply dumb founding that this is not obvious to SE. It doesn't matter that they actually do more damage. They should have some attributes (slightly less damage but MUCH stronger defense wise) which would justify the investment.

(And to NOW make relics easy to obtain simply spits all over the people who worked hard in 2004-2009 to get either weapon.)

[Kitheren]

Just to reply to a few of the posts here, please do not make up ideas on how weapons MIGHT have been obtained to determine the ease. Yes, its possible to get anything relatively easy if you are willing to cheat. That's not really the point of the thread.


Who said anything about cheating??

[DrStrangelove]

Who said anything about cheating??

The FIRST reply to the OP. And several after that.

[Kitheren]

The FIRST reply to the OP. And several after that.
Oh, I forgot. I tend to put posts suggesting cheating or other such things out of my mind or ignore them completely.

The way I suggested is pretty fast although it could still take up to a year or more depending on what drops and the price on said currency.

Just wish the relics could stand proud against the empyrean weapons. The work my husband and I did getting his up to 85 took months. Those kill shots with Catastrophe were horrible.

[Niklz]

All I care about is why some Empyrean Weapons are so much more difficult to obtain than others. Canyon path versus, any others <.<

[Xilk]

(And to NOW make relics easy to obtain simply spits all over the people who worked hard in 2004-2009 to get either weapon.)

It doesn't spit on anyone. You have your relic. You have had your epeen. The game does not promise you social status for having a relic weapon. SE has never promised Relics will always be the best. You have had things no one else had at the time. The game changes and evolves. It is an MMO. There is no entitlement.

[Tidon]

It doesn't spit on anyone. You have your relic. You have had your epeen. The game does not promise you social status for having a relic weapon. SE has never promised Relics will always be the best. You have had things no one else had at the time. The game changes and evolves. It is an MMO. There is no entitlement.

Not true, i remember reading somewhere on playonline.com when mythic came out, they said that relic will be always top

[Ragmar]

So its okay that SE has made having all jobs capped and the best armor in the game obtainable in meh 2-3 months tops but not a relic? I hate what abyssea has done as far as lvling. I had 10 75's (only SMN via SMN burn) before abyssea came out and that was an accomplishment. SE said NOP here ya go lvl 30-99 afk. But now, oh noes, others are gonna get relics aside from the gil buyers and HNM rare/ex gear sellers! Abyssea has changed the game I don't like a lot of it and some has become very fun. Yeah I prefer old lvling to abyssea lvling but it aint gonna change. Atleast now I can get a relic if I so choose and enjoy it as much as the relic owners are now enjoying leeching 30-99 in a day or two. Fact is SE did put XI on easy mode go with it.

[Sama]

It doesn't spit on anyone. You have your relic. You have had your epeen. The game does not promise you social status for having a relic weapon.

Imagine you have spent the time and effort for getting a relic and it turns out to be an laughable subject at the end and that, immediately destroy the purpose regardless the item rareness.

For most relic owner, rareness is one thing, an item showing dedication is another.

Think about it, most relic owner runs Dyna to get coins: getting a group, wait for the event, spend countless hours in dyna zone getting coins AND your relic AF; making it a win-win situation for those who focus of relic weapon and dyna AF and that, really makes the game fun.

Just do the math, getting enough currency for 1 relic weapon, how many AFs the group will received at the end? How many players walked out dyna happily and willing to continue with the adventure? This really drives the game AND helps SE establish the developer-player relations.

People who have worked so hard on the relic SHOULD deserve the end-game-like characteristics (i.e. damage).

=================================================================

My thoughts:

The way SE has done IS 100% spit on face with no respect AND thoughtful consideration. I wonder who made that decision... SE Japan or NA/EU?... I got a feeling that it's definitely not someone who have spent a year or so on one item in a game... Or someone who doesn't even play the game at all (a dolphin?) If relic weapon is so weak now why do I even run/lead dyna????? I can't think of anything else besides selling coins for profit which may promote RMT gil selling/buying...

Making Emp Wpn so powerful seems to me is just a marketing decision to make people come back / join the game for the last moment of FFIX. But, I foresee, this is actually destroying the game faster because things are so off balance and easy, and the worst is people are having much negative feedback after all AND those dedicated players for the past 7-8 years lost trust in SE.

What have you done SE?

=================================================================

[Toren]

I'm actually hoping the dynamis improvements will help the system to obtaining relics... previously there was only a few real ways to obtain one while some of the best LS's can put out a new relic weapon/shield/horn every 4-5 months that still did not address the fact only one person could work toward it over a large period of time without others pouring their money into currency outside of sponsoring. Believe me I understand where people are coming from I practically lived beside someone for 7 months helping by funneling 98% of the drops we got into his weapon (the rest was used to cover consumable expenses) farming 200k~1 Mil a day (2~8 hours a day, 4~7 days a week) based on what we could do most while we finished his.

I still see only dedicated players obtaining relics, while this may put more currency in circulation, it will never change the fact it requires over 17-18k currency just to finish the relic itself, Then however many WS's to evolve it through ToM and Attest NM's. Also keep in mind future trials will more then likely be harder then what we have now so its still not exactly *easy* to obtain them the real achievement is having a fully completed weapon in my opinion. :)

[Venat]

What they need to do is..
Relic weapons are for 2hr's.
Empyean weapons are for weapon skills.
Mythic weapons are for Abilitys.

Now if you check mythic weapons they already support abilitys
Now if you check Empyean weapons they support weapon skills mainly and main phy dmg.
Now all they need to do is adjust Relic weapons and make it a Boost where your 2hrs are 20min recast timers and they do 3 times the damage or boost then this will be good weapons again but not for weapon skills but for 2hrs. Good weapon to swap in before you 2hr. 300 Hundred Firsts anyone? Pld 2hr lasting 3x longer.... fastcast lasting 3x longer. Bard 2hr doubling the song effect.

[Anethia]

I still see only dedicated players obtaining relics, while this may put more currency in circulation, it will never change the fact it requires over 17-18k currency just to finish the relic itself, Then however many WS's to evolve it through ToM and Attest NM's. Also keep in mind future trials will more then likely be harder then what we have now so its still not exactly *easy* to obtain them the real achievement is having a fully completed weapon in my opinion. :)

^^^this

My dyna shell has two relic holders, a mandau and an apocalypse, the drk has magian upgraded apocalypse that still out does anything I've seen empyreans turn out to be. So honestly I dont see that the OP really has much to complain about. When a relic drk can casually throw out a 3k cataclysm without soul eater outside abyssea, That's a pretty damn powerful weapon.

[Tamarsamar]

I have Excalibur but I not too upset that they aren't the best weapons anymore. Everything seems like a grind though lately.

It was always a dream of mine to one day obtain the legendary Excalibur, but now I severely doubt it's even going to be worth it any more. Not when some hideously over-sized blue sword not only utterly annihilates it, but is also marginally easier to obtain . . . v_v;

[newzarb]

What they need to do is..
Relic weapons are for 2hr's.
Empyean weapons are for weapon skills.
Mythic weapons are for Abilitys.

Now if you check mythic weapons they already support abilitys
Now if you check Empyean weapons they support weapon skills mainly and main phy dmg.
Now all they need to do is adjust Relic weapons and make it a Boost where your 2hrs are 20min recast timers and they do 3 times the damage or boost then this will be good weapons again but not for weapon skills but for 2hrs. Good weapon to swap in before you 2hr. 300 Hundred Firsts anyone? Pld 2hr lasting 3x longer.... fastcast lasting 3x longer. Bard 2hr doubling the song effect.

Let's have SAMs with 900% TP and WHMs healing 300% HP! And I'm sure THFs would prefer 1'30 perfect dodge over more damage!

Seriously SE does need to do something to help mythic/relic owners and not just lower the numbers of mobs that have to be killed for trials everyone already completed. WS damage increase on relics is a good start but still insufficient.

[Runespider]

My dyna shell has two relic holders, a mandau and an apocalypse, the drk has magian upgraded apocalypse that still out does anything I've seen empyreans turn out to be. So honestly I dont see that the OP really has much to complain about. When a relic drk can casually throw out a 3k cataclysm without soul eater outside abyssea, That's a pretty damn powerful weapon.

Apoc was never that great and now it's even worse compared to what else is out there, it's one claim to fame is also gone. Since it's aftermath is +10 gear haste and haste is so easy to cap even that is out the window.

Catastophe was never a good WS, other WS do far more damage. I've seen plenty of apocs in action and they are far from impressive.

[Sama]

My apoc (lv90) has been sitting in mog and I rarely use it...

That's how bad it is.

[Kitheren]

Apoc was never that great and now it's even worse compared to what else is out there, it's one claim to fame is also gone. Since it's aftermath is +10 gear haste and haste is so easy to cap even that is out the window.

Catastophe was never a good WS, other WS do far more damage. I've seen plenty of apocs in action and they are far from impressive.

Catastrophe does awful damage, even in Abyssea. And it's miss rate is outrageous. But it has never been about the damage for Catastrophe. It's been about the haste and the HP recovery. If you take it solely for the DMG, you will be disappointed for sure.

[Rambus]

Catastrophe does awful damage, even in Abyssea. And it's miss rate is outrageous. But it has never been about the damage for Catastrophe. It's been about the haste and the HP recovery. If you take it solely for the DMG, you will be disappointed for sure.

95=/=100%

what do you mean by miss rate is outrageous?
all 1 hit ws suffer from that

unless the ws is purely magic ( sam ws have thier own rules)

[Kitheren]

95=/=100%

what do you mean by miss rate is outrageous?
all 1 hit ws suffer from that

unless the ws is purely magic ( sam ws have thier own rules)

My husband has Apocalypse at 85. I see Catastrophe miss a lot, even with loads of accuracy gear, food and atmas. That's all I'm saying. More so than say Freezebite, for example. As often as I have seen THAT weapon skill with Abyssea out. I'm just basing this off of what I have personally seen as well as I have gathered from other Apocalypse users.

[Laotzu]

Change happens, I don't see a problem with the current plans for the weapons. Sure people spent time and stuff getting the relics and upgrading them, but why aren't SE allowed to put something better in their game? It's like saying "I think we should go back to steam power because electricity makes my old steam engine look crap."

[Rambus]

My husband has Apocalypse at 85. I see Catastrophe miss a lot, even with loads of accuracy gear, food and atmas. That's all I'm saying. More so than say Freezebite, for example. As often as I have seen THAT weapon skill with Abyssea out. I'm just basing this off of what I have personally seen as well as I have gathered from other Apocalypse users.

see:

95=/=100%

what do you mean by miss rate is outrageous?
all 1 hit ws suffer from that

unless the ws is purely magic ( sam ws have thier own rules)

its a one hit ws, you can be on level 1 mobs and miss 5 out of 100 ws on average.

RNG, SAM are all one hit ws jobs, of couse if your used to seeing something like guilotine you think one hit ws misses a lot.

on a 4 hit ws your chances of missing all 4 on cap acc is 0.000625% then if you are using double attack gear on top of that or /sam for zanshin the chance of missing all 4 is even lower then that, but even with double attack and zanshin on a 1 hit ws still has a high chnace to miss compared to a 4 hit ws.

when you consider double attack and zanshin it might be 3% ish chance of miss vs 0.000000625% with a 4 hit ws (remember this is the chance of missing all 4 hit ws on a 4 hit ws, not just one or 2 hits). so yeah you are going to see a 1 hit ws miss a lot more then any form of ws that has more then one hit

pretty sure Freezebite is pure elemental so it cant miss (some ele ws can miss like sam ele ws, but those also are able to work with sneak attack so ws like that are more hybird types).

sounds like hes using too much acc because of the cap acc concept, should let up on that btw.


Change happens, I don't see a problem with the current plans for the weapons. Sure people spent time and stuff getting the relics and upgrading them, but why aren't SE allowed to put something better in their game? It's like saying "I think we should go back to steam power because electricity makes my old steam engine look crap."
propblem with this is that game =/= RL

there is no reason why a weapon thats easier to get outdoes weapons that are harder to get, esp when you are talking about weapons that can take years of investment vs 1 to 2 weeks.

I do not difine progress in a game that lets new weapons that takes 1-2 weaks to do that are new outdo weapons that can take years.

The only reason people like you want emp weapons to outdo relics is to laugh and show up relic users which is not right. I have no problem with allowing weapons with the concept of "poor's man relic" but they should not be outdoing them.

[Morlen]

what if they introduced a quest that had u combine the relic, emp, and mythic into one weapon

of course, pure dreamin lol, but if they did something like this, would breathe life back into whitegate and dynamis again

[Rambus]

I'm glad they got rid of that most unfair unbalanced Relic Weapon crap.

Reic weapons should never have been put in the game and so time consuming

It created alot of elitest that wanted use people for dynamis and give them nothing in return, greed, hate, and alot of arguing text that I could have done without

90% of people who got a relic weapon, either A. Crapped on people to get them, or B. Bought gil to buy currency to get them. SO IM GLAD YOU GOT WHAT YOU DESERVE!

When I would see people with Relic Weapons, I wouldnt go, ohhhh awww its someone uber. I would go, ohhh ahhh an elitist jerk who ripped peoples time off or ohhhh ahhhhh a rich kid who stole his parents credit card.

CONGRATULATIONS, ABOUT TIME SE CRAPPED ON THOSE WHO CRAPPED ON OTHERS.

unfair?

no hard core gamers should have something to shoot for, so a relic weapon user does a bit more damage then you, so what? that little bit of damage is not worth months to years of invesment so something should show it, lest give them that much.

how is a relic weapon user hurting you? what is the unfair about it?
I miss the memo that stated you need a relic weapon to do abyssea or whatever your trying to compain about.

back in the day when it took 1 M to enter, you where happy to be entering without having to pay for it, I do not see how LS leaders where trying to "ripped peoples time"

some relic users did get thier weapons un-fairly, not everyone though, your making an unfair statment there

[Kirana]

I'm glad they got rid of that most unfair unbalanced Relic Weapon crap.

Reic weapons should never have been put in the game and so time consuming

It created alot of elitest that wanted use people for dynamis and give them nothing in return, greed, hate, and alot of arguing text that I could have done without

90% of people who got a relic weapon, either A. Crapped on people to get them, or B. Bought gil to buy currency to get them. SO IM GLAD YOU GOT WHAT YOU DESERVE!

When I would see people with Relic Weapons, I wouldnt go, ohhhh awww its someone uber. I would go, ohhh ahhh an elitist jerk who ripped peoples time off or ohhhh ahhhhh a rich kid who stole his parents credit card.

CONGRATULATIONS, ABOUT TIME SE CRAPPED ON THOSE WHO CRAPPED ON OTHERS.

You are jumping to conclusions.

----
I do believe that SE mentioned a while ago that Relics would remain the best weapons, with respect to empyreans. Granted, they have not kept this promise so far, but I think when 99 rolls around, relics will get another boost which will put them on top.

Honestly, the aftermaths of each relic/mythic should be re-considered and changed to provide a greater benefit (something that rivals the ODD on each empy). Each relic/mythic WS should be changed so that, at the very least, they outdamage the normal WS that the weapon type can use, but of course the WSs should be doing more damage than their empyrean counterparts.

[Rambus]

There was a few gilshare or currecy share dynamis shells out there, but for every one of of those there was atleast 10 or more that were currency to the leader and everyone else, junky crap that droped, and they were even lucky to even get those scraps.

A dynamis linkshell can share with every AND EACH member in the shell a 100+ currency or 1-3 million profit share a month with 30+ member shells. Including allowing drops to go where ever and to who ever needs them. Thats after all runs hourglass was coverd.


do you even have a clue what goes on? how are you going to split 200-1000 coins ( IF CITY!) gl getting coins from dreamland to give 30+ memebers 1-3 million gil?

2 times a week times 4 weeks = 8 mil just for glasses average 400 coins per run ( a bit high end if you ask me)

3200 coins, = 41 600 000 if you assume bronze (13k ea on my server)

33 Mil profit Margin or about 1.1 M per month if i take your 30 memeber number ( and lol at that)

If you mean 30 back when it was 1 Mil per glass that profit spread is even worse since that would 41 M-16M =25 Mil witch is around 833k per member in a 30 memeber shell

do you honestly know whats going on? there was even a point in the game where it was HARD TO BRAKE EVEN , there was a time in the game where glasses where 1 M and you got 5-7k per coin, 8k maybe tops.

It is still hard to brake even on dreamland zones, and a bit lesser exent bastok, people buy those for 4-5k ea atm lol ><.

When you do dreamland you have to assume a loss in gil otherwise you may run out of money in overall planning

running shells is not easy, relics are not easy ( some money hungery small ls that sells off homan and salage gear back in hayday could bring in tons of money may find them easy, or selling AB leech spots and so on)

I also love how people attack relic users and say nothing about mythics, mythics are harder to get and needs more fixing then relics need.

[Laotzu]

see:
propblem with this is that game =/= RL

there is no reason why a weapon thats easier to get outdoes weapons that are harder to get, esp when you are talking about weapons that can take years of investment vs 1 to 2 weeks.

I do not difine progress in a game that lets new weapons that takes 1-2 weaks to do that are new outdo weapons that can take years.

The only reason people like you want emp weapons to outdo relics is to laugh and show up relic users which is not right. I have no problem with allowing weapons with the concept of "poor's man relic" but they should not be outdoing them.

People like me don't want to laugh at relic weapon holders, some (not all) of them worked their asses off for the gear they got and I have much respect for that. My personal opinion is, though, that with progress comes new, better things like Emp. Weapons, AF3 and the new gear that may come later, it's all part of the game.

The relic weapons were added years ago, the system was conceived at a time when the game was still pretty young and the time investment was, to SE at the time, adequate. The game has shifted to be more casual-friendly and this is reflected in the way newer weapons are obtained.

Also about the game =/= rl crap... I used the steam vs Electricity comment as an example of how it sounded to me, I don't really care whether the game is not real life or vice versa, stupidity is same anywhere.

[GERM]

Mythics are harder to get then relic.. most relic weapons just require currency and a couple fights in dynamis where as mythics require you to do nyzule isle fights, have the merc rank kill 3 mega bosses get the ichor from einjar and above that get the alexandrite..
Relic weapons aren't going to get beffed their nerfing hardness in obtaining currency by allowing daily entry and above that the mobs that you have to kill will be nerfed do to the raised level cap so by pushing "staples easy button" again isnt probably going to happen.. This is something that people will argue about a lot with the raise of level caps and what nots.. "oh i worked so hard to get this and this other item is far superior cant you improve my item more" the fact of the matter is you all obtained said item when it was difficult to get, you used it at its peak of power and there are just other things that will be better out there now but they are at least giving people the option to improve an item beyond its base lvl 75 use..


do you even have a clue what goes on? how are you going to split 200-1000 coins ( IF CITY!) gl getting coins from dreamland to give 30+ memebers 1-3 million gil?

2 times a week times 4 weeks = 8 mil just for glasses average 400 coins per run ( a bit high end if you ask me)

3200 coins, = 41 600 000 if you assume bronze (13k ea on my server)

33 Mil profit Margin or about 1.1 M per month if i take your 30 memeber number ( and lol at that)

If you mean 30 back when it was 1 Mil per glass that profit spread is even worse since that would 41 M-16M =25 Mil witch is around 833k per member in a 30 memeber shell

This is a pretty reasonable formula too I even consider 400 coins a run high end I see 150-300 depending on the night and drops so yeah you figure all that plus the number of members you can get up to 800k a MONTH depending on attendance as well in my shell.. and you figure the time you spend in dynamis a month 3 hours a night 2 nights a week average 4 weeks a month thats 3x2=6x4=24 hours a month and basing that off of 800k gil 800,000/24= thats 33k an hour which is good but not that great considering you can make that being a key master in abyssea with items that drop @ 10/hr that sell from 3-15k to an NPC.. and you can spend larger quantities of time say 10 hours a day 3 days a week if you want and make a min of 900k in those 3 days and have the rest of your month to do whatever you want.. so there is a trade off and remember now its going to be a daily possibility to enter dynamis but not all the details are out, is it still going to be 3 hours a day or will it be unlimited? will you have to have stones as well or just basic time frame that was normally allowed?

[Alhanelem]

There was a few gilshare or currecy share dynamis shells out there, but for every one of of those there was atleast 10 or more that were currency to the leader and everyone else, junky crap that droped, and they were even lucky to even get those scraps. Stop making it sound like those people were treated horribly and felt like slaves. They were also getting the gear they wanted, which is hardly "scraps." And usually this was smaller shells of mainly friends who were perfectly OK with pushing someones relic- because they understood that was the only way to complete one in a reasonable time frame, all gil aside. Even if you had 10 billion gil, it would take a lot longer if you had to buy most/all of it from bazaars. Now, there were some groups where the relic-goer didn't give two farts about who was helping him, but stop making it sound like that was a majority of cases. I've helped a number of people get their relics, and in all cases but one, that person remained with the group long after and helped more people make that achievement and what's more, everyone was happy to be there. And note: While I did start a relic, I was never a sponsor.

[Rambus]

Mythics are harder to get then relic.. most relic weapons just require currency and a couple fights in dynamis where as mythics require you to do nyzule isle fights, have the merc rank kill 3 mega bosses get the ichor from einjar and above that get the alexandrite..
Relic weapons aren't going to get beffed their nerfing hardness in obtaining currency by allowing daily entry and above that the mobs that you have to kill will be nerfed do to the raised level cap so by pushing "staples easy button" again isnt probably going to happen.. This is something that people will argue about a lot with the raise of level caps and what nots.. "oh i worked so hard to get this and this other item is far superior cant you improve my item more" the fact of the matter is you all obtained said item when it was difficult to get, you used it at its peak of power and there are just other things that will be better out there now but they are at least giving people the option to improve an item beyond its base lvl 75 use..



This is a pretty reasonable formula too I even consider 400 coins a run high end I see 150-300 depending on the night and drops so yeah you figure all that plus the number of members you can get up to 800k a MONTH depending on attendance as well in my shell.. and you figure the time you spend in dynamis a month 3 hours a night 2 nights a week average 4 weeks a month thats 3x2=6x4=24 hours a month and basing that off of 800k gil 800,000/24= thats 33k an hour which is good but not that great considering you can make that being a key master in abyssea with items that drop @ 10/hr that sell from 3-15k to an NPC.. and you can spend larger quantities of time say 10 hours a day 3 days a week if you want and make a min of 900k in those 3 days and have the rest of your month to do whatever you want.. so there is a trade off and remember now its going to be a daily possibility to enter dynamis but not all the details are out, is it still going to be 3 hours a day or will it be unlimited? will you have to have stones as well or just basic time frame that was normally allowed?

about mythics, that was the problem since they where out, SE said they made mythics to be second to relics.

They cost too much and the original cost was 50 000 which is way absurd even the 30 000 now is still absurd when SE stated it was suppose to be more quest based.
I really think anyone saying emps should be best is out of their mind. If you say emps are suppose to be best, you combine that with what SE said ealier when mythics came out it would be:

Emp >relic> mythic

Who would be that crazy to make a mythic then? There would be no point of making a mythic.

The only mythics that really should be made are staff for SMN and club for WHM, which makes no sense.

Short story:
Relics need to be buffed
Mythics need to be buffed.
Mythics need to be easier to get ( at lest lower the cost because the current cost does not go with a weapon intended of being quest based)
Atma buffs like razed ruin are overpowered and the main reason the emp weapons are overpowered.

It makes no sense to make emps the strongest weapons in the game, they are TOO EASY TO GET for that title, just because new weapons come out they should atomically be better?

if you make emps the best weapons that means there would be NO REASON make new mythics and relics, and mythics are rare enough in getting made department.

keep in mind my little "fomula" was to show that Bahamut's statments are wayyyyy out there.

[Michaeluk]

I'm glad they got rid of that most unfair unbalanced Relic Weapon crap.

Reic weapons should never have been put in the game and so time consuming

It created alot of elitest that wanted use people for dynamis and give them nothing in return, greed, hate, and alot of arguing text that I could have done without

90% of people who got a relic weapon, either A. Crapped on people to get them, or B. Bought gil to buy currency to get them. SO IM GLAD YOU GOT WHAT YOU DESERVE!

When I would see people with Relic Weapons, I wouldnt go, ohhhh awww its someone uber. I would go, ohhh ahhh an elitist jerk who ripped peoples time off or ohhhh ahhhhh a rich kid who stole his parents credit card.

CONGRATULATIONS, ABOUT TIME SE CRAPPED ON THOSE WHO CRAPPED ON OTHERS.

Wow so much anger, go spew your rubbish elsewere dumbo. Let me guess you didn't own and wouldn't ever get a relic to damn lazy to work on one so you blame others and spew that nonsense above to make your worthless existance feel better.

[Rambus]

Yes Bahamut made igornet comments for whatever reason I do not know but try not to name call, hate to have ti locked cuz of him. (look how i pointed out why is statments where igornet)

Only reason I am posting agin is to stress mythics, if you drop all the costs the redoing assults alone makes you wait 50 days or almost 2 months. There is no reason to take that much time getting a weapon like a mythic for it to be that weak when you compare them to other weapons.

even back at 75 only ones that should be made (because they are real impovement to thier jobs, some mythics are weaker then normal weapons or magain weapons that where out at 75/80)
where SMN staff, WHM club, and COR gun. now that emp gun is out your left with SMN staff and whm club.

mythics need big fixing since they came out and SE been ingoring them. you put that on top of SE saying relic > mythic, there is no reason why emp should out do ether.

(for the love of god take MAB off weapons as nuking stats and put potences so it otudoes magain [ and at 75 ele staffs where better then mythics])

the only reason emps are this strong is because SE forgot balance it making things, there is a lot of balance issues SE neglected since lefting to 80 and this is one of them.

[Boldheart]

You can do the same with Emp Wpn... Just /sh in Jeuno people will sale you any ra/ex item... If you are talking about gil buying then this game is pointless...

I believe most relic owner worked hard on their weapon; those b00b relic owners are likely have bought the account from others; or got from friends. As before lvl75 cap raised, I don't believe you can 'buy' a team to fight the relic NM. You can buy all coins but not the NM... you have to make a team...

This is not true my +2 Para dagger (occ att 2-4 times) 22dmg took forever to get and I didnt use gil for it. I had to go thru 3 sets of NM's 3 times but here comes the fun part. Had to kill probably around 4-5k mobs atleast to obtain this dagger and it's not even Empryean weapon but best sub dagger i will say in game. Relic is hard to get, but it's alot of having the right friends and setting the right dynamis' and obtaining the ancient money to get it. I guess Empryean might be the upgrade to the old relicweapons.

[Rambus]

This is not true my +2 Para dagger (occ att 2-4 times) 22dmg took forever to get and I didnt use gil for it. I had to go thru 3 sets of NM's 3 times but here comes the fun part. Had to kill probably around 4-5k mobs atleast to obtain this dagger and it's not even Empryean weapon but best sub dagger i will say in game. Relic is hard to get, but it's alot of having the right friends and setting the right dynamis' and obtaining the ancient money to get it. I guess Empryean might be the upgrade to the old relicweapons.

it isn't, never was, i guess its ok for a cure bombing dnc, please for the love of god say you didnt get it for thf

[GERM]

They cost too much and the original cost was 50 000 which is way absurd even the 30 000 now is still absurd when SE stated it was suppose to be more quest based.
I really think anyone saying emps should be best is out of their mind. If you say emps are suppose to be best, you combine that with what SE said ealier when mythics came out it would be:


I forgot they reduced the cost of alexandrite for those but yeah 30k is still a lot considering they don't drop off of just any mob regularly..
The mythic ive seen is the BRD dagger and I love what they did with the buffs on it.. which is probably one of the best BRD daggers ive seen out there

[Rambus]

I forgot they reduced the cost of alexandrite for those but yeah 30k is still a lot considering they don't drop off of just any mob regularly..
The mythic ive seen is the BRD dagger and I love what they did with the buffs on it.. which is probably one of the best BRD daggers ive seen out there

not that hard to reppaly songs...

maybe useful when your doing troubadour ES Elegy on mobs but that you need ES on but that is the exent i would call it useful, if it had song + stuff on it then it would qualify as a weapon to get.

stuff like that BRD dagger, RDM sword could have more relevance to their jobs. A convert macro to use a mythic weapon is not funny

[Secondplanet]

There was a few gilshare or currecy share dynamis shells out there, but for every one of of those there was atleast 10 or more that were currency to the leader and everyone else, junky crap that droped, and they were even lucky to even get those scraps.

A dynamis linkshell can share with every AND EACH member in the shell a 100+ currency or 1-3 million profit share a month with 30+ member shells. Including allowing drops to go where ever and to who ever needs them. Thats after all runs hourglass was coverd.

If you were part a dynamsis shell and got nothing but AF gear. Think about this. Were was your 100+ currency a month, or millions of gil?


you have to be my all time hero for coming forth and saying that, This game has made some very ugly players where they would step on their mother's head to get farther then someone else.

I think relic's should be left in the past and stay there, this game was founded on getting new gear to upgrade to and they are even going back on that with synergy for the salvage/limbus etc. gear. The gear is out of date and i don't care how much time you spent getting it, get over it. If you wanted something that would last forever get a ps2 or snes game and a gamegenie and have fun, But to try to bring stuff back from the past or stuff that is now out of date to make the gamers who spend more time in this game in 1 day then i can spend in a week isn't fair.

Considering SE says don't let this game rule your life and to only play for a maximum of 3-4 hrs and take a break is a total FAIL in my books since some things can take much much much longer then that to complete.

[Rambus]

you have to be my all time hero for coming forth and saying that, This game has made some very ugly players where they would step on their mother's head to get farther then someone else.

I think relic's should be left in the past and stay there, this game was founded on getting new gear to upgrade to and they are even going back on that with synergy for the salvage/limbus etc. gear. The gear is out of date and i don't care how much time you spent getting it, get over it. If you wanted something that would last forever get a ps2 or snes game and a gamegenie and have fun, But to try to bring stuff back from the past or stuff that is now out of date to make the gamers who spend more time in this game in 1 day then i can spend in a week isn't fair.

Considering SE says don't let this game rule your life and to only play for a maximum of 3-4 hrs and take a break is a total FAIL in my books since some things can take much much much longer then that to complete.

You are forgetting hes giving wrong information:

do you even have a clue what goes on? how are you going to split 200-1000 coins ( IF CITY!) gl getting coins from dreamland to give 30+ memebers 1-3 million gil?

2 times a week times 4 weeks = 8 mil just for glasses average 400 coins per run ( a bit high end if you ask me)

3200 coins, = 41 600 000 if you assume bronze (13k ea on my server)

33 Mil profit Margin or about 1.1 M per month if i take your 30 memeber number ( and lol at that)

If you mean 30 back when it was 1 Mil per glass that profit spread is even worse since that would 41 M-16M =25 Mil witch is around 833k per member in a 30 memeber shell

do you honestly know whats going on? there was even a point in the game where it was HARD TO BRAKE EVEN , there was a time in the game where glasses where 1 M and you got 5-7k per coin, 8k maybe tops.

It is still hard to brake even on dreamland zones, and a bit lesser exent bastok, people buy those for 4-5k ea atm lol ><.

When you do dreamland you have to assume a loss in gil otherwise you may run out of money in overall planning

running shells is not easy, relics are not easy ( some money hungery small ls that sells off homan and salage gear back in hayday could bring in tons of money may find them easy, or selling AB leech spots and so on)

I also love how people attack relic users and say nothing about mythics, mythics are harder to get and needs more fixing then relics need.

People have stolen NMs in abyssea, MPKed over Shikigami weapon, MPKed over Moldavite earing when I was new, people stolen 100s from shells and so on, I do not see you attacking those people, so why do you insist relic weapon holders deserve it?

Why do you find it ok that mythics are so hard to get and pick on relic holders? I am confused.

[Michaeluk]

It's jealousy, been a relic and a empy holder take it from me the relic was the harder to make and should be the number one weapon, half of these people posting against relics are just fools who would never get one and are just to damn lazy to work for the gil to get a relic, so they get easy mode emps and then demand they stay the best weapon.

I tell you something these so called casual players make me sick.

[Secondplanet]

It's jealousy, been a relic and a empy holder take it from me the relic was the harder to make and should be the number one weapon, half of these people posting against relics are just fools who would never get one and are just to damn lazy to work for the gil to get a relic, so they get easy mode emps and then demand they stay the best weapon.

I tell you something these so called casual players make me sick.

Wow you are the true point of what most people hate, those who think since they have no life and live on the game and then bad mouth those who have a different perspective of the game, you are the elitest that most players make fun of. Yes Mythic weapons are hard to get also but this board was made to talk about relic so thats why i didn't mention it, and as for the emp weapons it nice that SE finally gave every player a chance to get a decent piece of equipment without having to backstab everyone to get it.


I really didn't want to have to say someone has no life or is an elitist but to say casual players makes you sick is just plain sad, so very very sad that you think the game is just for your type.

[Alkalinehoe]

it isn't, never was, i guess its ok for a cure bombing dnc, please for the love of god say you didnt get it for thf
It's junk for DNC with the amount of DA/TA DNC can get now. I'd opt for the +10 DA one if any.

[Henihhi]

This thread goes back to the point that SE totally screwed over a lot of the old faithful players to dumb things down for the newer players. I seriously wonder when SE realizes it had way more players and subscribers when people worked for drops than they do now. The exp things such as exp in Abyssea were desperately needed, I will agree there, but I am desperately hoping the new content will be more rewarding to players who actually like a challenge. And this game is desperately lacking a challenge right about now. People worked hard to get relics, and it is a shame SE made them pretty useless lately.

[Rambus]

It's jealousy, been a relic and a empy holder take it from me the relic was the harder to make and should be the number one weapon, half of these people posting against relics are just fools who would never get one and are just to damn lazy to work for the gil to get a relic, so they get easy mode emps and then demand they stay the best weapon.

I tell you something these so called casual players make me sick.

thank you ! I apparate your post. Maybe my sig will help others to see where i am comming from now ^^ I did it for threads like this since I seen others making relic statments

for those that dont know, there is a forced wait time for both mythics and relics.

mythics make you redo all the assults so thats 50 days

you have to wait almost 2 weeks for relics just because of the trades:
1>2 : JP midnight
2>3: 1 week starting from when you trade it
3>4: 3 and 1/2 days (82 hrs for exact) like 2>3 starts when it gets all the items
4>5: no wait


It's junk for DNC with the amount of DA/TA DNC can get now. I'd opt for the +10 DA one if any.

ahh right, same reason i said it better not be for thf. I'm sure in a pinch the 2-4 occ hit may give more tp for curing but for DDing with occasional cures, I wouldn't touch it. ( I was more talking about spaming cures)

Though I do admit I lack knowledge in the proc rate on it and how much 3-4 times happen to warrant such argument.

[Secondplanet]

I do not mean to pick on those who shed blood sweat and tears to get their gear title's or status in the game but to look down on other players since some endgame players think they are above them isn't right, that is why relic and mythic etc.. carries such bad reputation with them. If there wasn't as many corrupt or greedy LS's out there for these very items they would still have the prestige title that comes with them but alas they don't, when most players see a relic item they think back on how they were stepped on to get someone else theres and automatically resentment sets in.

Its just like the matt cap, back in the day it was a sign of great worth but now its nothing more then a worthless object due to abyssea allowing any/everyone to get all jobs maxed out in a week. I love the trial weapons since they have given me the ability to get a good - perp cost as smn and why should that kind of awesomeness be reserved for only those with the mythic staff for smn?

I would show great respect for anyone able to finish a relic but with the sea of greedy/selfish/backstabbing people out there trying to get theirs its hard to distinguish between those who deserve them and those who took them.

[Hoofy]

I'm glad they got rid of that most unfair unbalanced Relic Weapon crap.

Reic weapons should never have been put in the game and so time consuming

It created alot of elitest that wanted use people for dynamis and give them nothing in return, greed, hate, and alot of arguing text that I could have done without

90% of people who got a relic weapon, either A. Crapped on people to get them, or B. Bought gil to buy currency to get them. SO IM GLAD YOU GOT WHAT YOU DESERVE!

When I would see people with Relic Weapons, I wouldnt go, ohhhh awww its someone uber. I would go, ohhh ahhh an elitist jerk who ripped peoples time off or ohhhh ahhhhh a rich kid who stole his parents credit card.

CONGRATULATIONS, ABOUT TIME SE CRAPPED ON THOSE WHO CRAPPED ON OTHERS.

Wow...really?

You may have some people figured out...but that is not everyone. I never sponsored a dynamis run, never even considered buying gil to finish. Ive always found myself as one of the more outgoing people to play FFXI

Remarks like these only lead to showing how butthurt you really are that you could never finish a relic.

When they released Empryean, I was 90% done with Annihilator, wasn't about to stop. And for the record, I didn't spend almost 2 years and 170mil to have a 2nd rate weapon..especially one out done by two weeks of what lazy people call "hard work"

[Rambus]

I do not mean to pick on those who shed blood sweat and tears to get their gear title's or status in the game but to look down on other players since some endgame players think they are above them isn't right, that is why relic and mythic etc.. carries such bad reputation with them. If there wasn't as many corrupt or greedy LS's out there for these very items they would still have the prestige title that comes with them but alas they don't, when most players see a relic item they think back on how they were stepped on to get someone else theres and automatically resentment sets in.

Its just like the matt cap, back in the day it was a sign of great worth but now its nothing more then a worthless object due to abyssea allowing any/everyone to get all jobs maxed out in a week. I love the trial weapons since they have given me the ability to get a good - perp cost as smn and why should that kind of awesomeness be reserved for only those with the mythic staff for smn?

I would show great respect for anyone able to finish a relic but with the sea of greedy/selfish/backstabbing people out there trying to get theirs its hard to distinguish between those who deserve them and those who took them.

at 75 ele staffs, B staff was good, magin was good if you put the time in it but ele staffs was a good start.

I do understand where people are comming from secondplanet, I know it exists. Its painful to see that there is people that view everyone like that.

At 75 a lot of relic gear was good so Bahamut's comment was out of line, and hopfully after me mathing it out you understand why it is upsetting for him to make a statment like he did.

I do understand waiting to take the concept out so people are not encourage to use people in such a way. I made a post about how people abuse people in other ways as well, getting relics is not the only form of people abuse.

I had someone harass me on my BLU to run down to get someones yellow trigger, all they said was hurry hurry ( i was trying to be nice I said yes before they where in harass mode) I asked if i could lot PLD as i was running down there without an answer, I get there and I was kicked out of the party for lotting PLD.

A problem in this game of people abuse is not relics, but SE not having polices to let GMs do things about it.


Wow...really?

You may have some people figured out...but that is not everyone. I never sponsored a dynamis run, never even considered buying gil to finish. Ive always found myself as one of the more outgoing people to play FFXI

Remarks like these only lead to showing how butthurt you really are that you could never finish a relic.

When they released Empryean, I was 90% done with Annihilator, wasn't about to stop. And for the record, I didn't spend almost 2 years and 170mil to have a 2nd rate weapon..especially one out done by two weeks of what lazy people call "hard work"

170 MIL?!?!?! wth gun is one of the cheapest ones

i shouted for 10 for shells and 12 for bronze, and people bought byne for 4/5k

2 years ago I am not sure if that was the point of 7k/8k ea, but ti was close to the peroid of being cheapest.

2008 sih is when i seen them at the cheapist rate.

when and how much did you buy each for?

But I am the same boat as you, I could sold all my currecy I had on me for 120 M before going though with it, but i went to get my bow anyway in hoping SE would fix them, plus I do not know what I would do with 120 M, donoate it to people that are in hand me stuff mode? pay people to get emp weapons?
It was a goal I had for 6 years so I finished it ( serious work didnt really start till about 5 years ago ,saving money and buying and selling coins as i seen fit)

[Hoofy]

Bynes: 5-6k
Shells: 10-12k
Bronze 14-16k, usually the latter...

Regardless, Doing relics/mythics takes a lot of discipline. As many times as I wanted to walk away, Then just to finish to find out you've completed a second rate weapon to something that can be done in a week..sigh

[Nattack]

relic Weapon Skills need to be repaired, most of all, i believe.

the cost/reward ratio has always been a bit sketchy, except for things like Mandau and Apocalypse.

[Henihhi]

How exactly were people used and abused as a lot claimed? Most people got relic af drops that came and the person that forked over the gil for the glass got the currency. Noone asked you to go, most people went because they still needed relic af. And the person working on relic bought the glass, thus giving you a chance at said relic af. I don't even have a relic but my god you people with this hand me all drops attitude make my head hurt.

[Rambus]

Bynes: 5-6k
Shells: 10-12k
Bronze 14-16k, usually the latter...

Regardless, Doing relics/mythics takes a lot of discipline. As many times as I wanted to walk away, Then just to finish to find out you've completed a second rate weapon to something that can be done in a week..sigh

yeah 14-16k would hurt since its your 4th dang /confort.

I would love the order to be relic>mythic emp. but a lot of fixing needs to achive that

casting damage needs a relic ( mages are not melee lol claustrum)



relic Weapon Skills need to be repaired, most of all, i believe.


the cost/reward ratio has always been a bit sketchy, except for things like Mandau and Apocalypse.

relics are easer to fix then mythics in my opion, relics just need the WS stronger ( at 75 most of the ws was weak anyway)

problems of mythics:
mythics need a level 3 skillchain protperty

mythics like brd dagger, rdm sword, BLM staff needs more use then being macros.

PLD sword needs to pad PLD's damage a bit

SCH staff needs to be upgraded from useless

RNG mythic needs to be upgraded from useless ( hint trueflight is not a good ws)

DRK needs relic and mythic to be upreagred form useless. ( effect of ws and ws damage is bad for both)

COR gun: WS needs fixing

MNK mythic ( dont know pad ws to out do emp i guess/ better after effect)

THF ( affter effect/ WS issue)

SAM: different enchancement, maybe hasso, seigan, change affer effects, better ws

NIN: augement Yonin/Innin, better ws, better after effect

DRG: ( this looks decent actally, maybe better after effect, increase drakesbane damage when used by ryunohige)

BLU, PUP, DNC pretty much the same, better ws and after effect.

some other ways of changing relics/ mythics, allow a quest to gain acess to emp ws and let emp ws trigger the aftermaths

some mythic ws are bad I don't know if they are worth changing but giving them acess to the emp ws.
If SE wants mythics to be stuck on thier mythic ws , the mythic ws under mythic weapon needs to be a lot better, and granted a level 3 property.

some mythics have good ws like drakesbane so might be easier to fix.

like to see mythics fixed so its more of every 20 emps i see, i see 5 relics and 1 mythic

and that mythic tends to be SMN staff or WHM club.

[Cenz]

As title said, SE needs to rethink what they have done and going to do with relic weapon.

Relic is the hardest piece of weapon to obtain and now it turns out to be an laughable topic in game because its weapon skill damage is so weak that most relic owner would just use something else.

As a relic owner I'm terrified and very upset every time I log-on and wield my relic weapon, especially when an emp weapon can easily one-shot an IT aby mob...

Think about it SE, they way it is now it's definitely off balance. People with relic weapon (like me) lost trust in you.

Can you advise? Or at least tell us that this is the way you want relic to be or you will do something about it.

LOL hardest piece of weapon.... try spamming glavoid pops and izapot or worse apedameks... but beside that ... Mythic is the hardest by far.... post 75 the relics become retarded... kill 1500 of this mob or 2k of that... for something that doesnt even compare in most cases to the emperions..... i do concur they should beef them up just so it would be worth doing for anyone that doesnt have one yet

[newzarb]

LOL hardest piece of weapon.... try spamming glavoid pops and izapot or worse apedameks... but beside that ... Mythic is the hardest by far.... post 75 the relics become retarded... kill 1500 of this mob or 2k of that... for something that doesnt even compare in most cases to the emperions..... i do concur they should beef them up just so it would be worth doing for anyone that doesnt have one yet

If relics were so easy to obtain, why didn't we see everyone own one before empyrean weapons release? Both mythics and relics need a serious boost compared to empyreans.

[Rambus]

LOL hardest piece of weapon.... try spamming glavoid pops and izapot or worse apedameks... but beside that ... Mythic is the hardest by far.... post 75 the relics become retarded... kill 1500 of this mob or 2k of that... for something that doesnt even compare in most cases to the emperions..... i do concur they should beef them up just so it would be worth doing for anyone that doesnt have one yet

I do not want to hear it, I had a LS mate doing dagger emp. now when you compare having to deal with glavoid or h2h emp compared to other emps, yeah its stupid that there is that imbalance in diffculty. That does not stop you from making an EXP pt, kill mobs with elemental ws, and getting the KIs from chests. I did that my self for my sword ( more of a soloable path but i suck at soloing for the most part, i hate it and like people interaction). Anyways after getting the KIs go pop the stupid thing and brew it and go back to collecting the kis from chests.

the 80-85 stage is all easy because they drop +2 item

85-90 can be brewed again, there is even small groups that would cour farm and go brew and collect KIs for eachother.

In otherwords emp weapons are SOLOABLE and FREE, it may take more time but there is no way in hell you can say that about mythics and relics.

your right about something yes relic trials are easier, I got to level 80 in 42 hrs. however It takes longer to get the base done, some people take a few months to get a relic, some a few years ( I took 5, I went though a lot of crap for mine). you have to wait around 10-11 days that is forced on you in waiting, in that time you can easly get an 85 emp done.

In theory mythics do sound harder, but if someone is going to tell me they have both and they find relic harder, most likey thats a server price issue or that he has a salavge farming group. I am not going to tell someone yeah your wrong that relics are harder then mythics even though your telling me that is not the case. I was in a salavge group for a bit, I said I just want alex, I do not want the gear and they all agreed and gave them to me.

Talking about this quote if your wondering:

It's jealousy, been a relic and a empy holder take it from me the relic was the harder to make and should be the number one weapon, half of these people posting against relics are just fools who would never get one and are just to damn lazy to work for the gil to get a relic, so they get easy mode emps and then demand they stay the best weapon.

I tell you something these so called casual players make me sick.

[Dallas]

I have a solution, just lower the currency requirement for trash relic and mythic weapons down to about 30 million gil. That means 6k alexandrite, and about 4k(?) currency (7k with 3k refund). It's not like anyone will use the weapons anyway.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Idk if they would seriously make an npc that sells currency...

it might be an easy , albeit less than satisfactory solution to fixing the alexandrite situation.

I feel they should just adjust the drop rates of currency to a more acceptable level that way people still have to do the event if they happen to want a relic / mythic for w/e reason.

[Flunklesnarkin]

If relics were so easy to obtain, why didn't we see everyone own one before empyrean weapons release? Both mythics and relics need a serious boost compared to empyreans.

I feel the game is moving forward.. forcing people to do an outdated event geared for lvl 75 people (ie dynamis)

just to obtain the best weapon in the game (relic if they uber buffed it for some reason) wouldn't make sense.


Dynamis has had its time in the sun. Relic weapons are still decent.. they aren't the best.. nor should they be..

[Rambus]

This is not wow! everyone is intitled to thier opions but I really want to know why say such things like this:

Dynamis has had its time in the sun. Relic weapons are still decent.. they aren't the best.. nor should they be..

A new item does not automatically mean progress. my case and point is Jet Seraweels. People would argue till they where blue in the face in saying they were better, pay more for them when it was new and call it progress.

Making relic/ mythic weapons easier to get just because people feel its progress that emps should be better does not make sense to me. Like i said before SE does throw random things on gear, this is no different. I’m sure this situation with relic and mythic is because they do not know. Like they said about SMN that one time they only change things if x number of people speak up on a situation. So I am here speaking up.

everyone that has one of these weapons or knows the work that go into them all say the same thing, they need to be fixed! there should be a reason to get other mythics then WHM club and SMN staff, that problem exist ever since mythics came out!

[Flunklesnarkin]

Yah.. but making the best item in the game.. something from a level 75 event?

I'm not saying relics shouldn't be in the top few weapons.. i just don't think they should be the best....

[Rambus]

Yah.. but making the best item in the game.. something from a level 75 event?

I'm not saying relics shouldn't be in the top few weapons.. i just don't think they should be the best....

Game is still based on level 75 rules, the "progress" so far is fake.

if you want to know why see my long thread of all the imbalances this game has from that.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1989-level-75-merit-changes-to-allow-progress-for-spells-and-other-progress-consderns/
that is only a few though like I did not tuch PLD problems from enmity caps, rules like that is ment for a game at 75 in CoP era.

What should be best then? I like to know what should be and reasons for it. like I said this is not wow emps do not deserve that title.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Game is still based on level 75 rules, the "progress" so far is fake.

if you want to know why see my long thread of all the imbalances this game has from that.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1989-level-75-merit-changes-to-allow-progress-for-spells-and-other-progress-consderns/
that is only a few though like did not tuch PLD problems from enmity caps, rules like that is ment for a game at 75 in CoP era.

What should be best then? I like to know what should be and reasons for it? like I said this is not wow emps do not deserve that title.

You are right .. there is no truly challenging content in the game atm..

I fail to see how making relics the best weapons in the game will fix the imbalances tho

I felt that empyreans were a step in the right direction.. they don't require massive amounts of gil.. just skill and competence.. although i wish they were harder to obtain.

The ease was probably a byproduct of abyssea / atma / cruor buffs

I'm certain they will release some omfgwtfbbq weapons by the time the lvl 99 update is released..

maybe lvl 99 empyrean trials will require you to fight w/o atma / cruor buffs.. that would be fun

[Rambus]

You are right .. there is no truly challenging content in the game atm..

I fail to see how making relics the best weapons in the game will fix the imbalances tho

I felt that empyreans were a step in the right direction.. they don't require massive amounts of gil.. just skill and competence.. although i wish they were harder to obtain.

The ease was probably a byproduct of abyssea / atma / cruor buffs

I'm certain they will release some omfgwtfbbq weapons by the time the lvl 99 update is released..

maybe lvl 99 empyrean trials will require you to fight w/o atma / cruor buffs.. that would be fun

it wont solve all imbalances, thats the point of the thread I linked you. I really do not want to state how to fix PLD and enmity caps because people have thier own stance wether if PLD should be DD/tank or tank with more hate grabing tools. The problem with the hate grabing tools goes back to the problem of the enmity cap that is ment for 75... ( or was in place cuz of ps2limtation I do not know im not SE)

As for weapons though you can see there is a lot of resentment of older players of making relics weak. I agree dyna needs to appeal to people to have reason to do that event, same with salvage and assault.
The weapon balance should be relic > mythic > emp and it the only order I can make sence of things. Having it any other way means no reason to do those older events, no reason to update them. I do not think this game can make enough content to replace the older stuff unless SE drops the PS2. You need too much data to replace that content with all new concepts, this is why to this day I am shocked they are trying to brake 75. The only solution I can come up with is that those events would be recycled in some way ( the relic armor is use to build into new gear) and have the difficulty raised to appeal to 90/99.
I just cannot picture making new weapons (mythics) then totally forgetting them and making them obsolete. Most mythics where junk at 75, and still are and yet there is magin trials for them. There is no trials for say V fork or other such things so that alone tells me SE is trying to keep them relevant. When you look at PW staff, dejore, that alacropse ( I don’t know that magic acc staff from T4 zeni) it shows SE does throw stats on weapons without knowing the effects of them ( making new weapons to underperform level 51 staffs is lol).

speaking of staffs im tried of using level 51 staffs because I have no inv/ time to do 20-30 magin weapons to replace them

[newzarb]

This is not wow!

Exactly.

I couldn't say more than Rambus said except the fact that I consider having a relic isn't only having the best weapon for your job, it's also an achievment. Since I obtained mine 2.5 years ago, I pretty much stopped playing my other jobs and leveling new ones because I'm proud of it and honored my linkshell chose me to upgrade a relic.

Many relic owners feel probably the same and even more those who actually had to farm gils for months to sponsor dynamis and don't want to see them outdated compared to weapons that are so easy to obtain.

So yeah either boost relics/mythics or make last empyreans trials "worth it" which won't happen since the game is on easy mode nowadays.

[Darkren]

Exactly.

I couldn't say more than Rambus said except the fact that I consider having a relic isn't only having the best weapon for your job, it's also an achievment. Since I obtained mine 2.5 years ago, I pretty much stopped playing my other jobs and leveling new ones because I'm proud of it and honored my linkshell chose me to upgrade a relic.

Many relic owners feel probably the same and even more those who actually had to farm gils for months to sponsor dynamis and don't want to see them outdated compared to weapons that are so easy to obtain.

So yeah either boost relics/mythics or make last empyreans trials "worth it" which won't happen since the game is on easy mode nowadays.

Grats on getting your relic in a "proper way", I know it must suck for you with all the hard work done. However I am quite glad that all those RMT feeders got butthurt now with the new empyreans being better.

Every type of gear is in east mode now, not just empyrean weapons, people also spent years getting sky/salvage/sea/etc gear only for it to be put in storage now. I guess the game just moves on.

[Sama]

As for weapons though you can see there is a lot of resentment of older players of making relics weak. I agree dyna needs to appeal to people to have reason to do that event, same with salvage and assault.
The weapon balance should be relic > mythic > emp and it the only order I can make sence of things.

Couldn't agree more... Thank you Rambus.

[Alhanelem]

if going purely by difficulty of obtaining, it should be mythic > relic > emp; mythics are far, far more difficult to obtain.

[TearValerin]

As title said, SE needs to rethink what they have done and going to do with relic weapon.

Relic is the hardest piece of weapon to obtain and now it turns out to be an laughable topic in game because its weapon skill damage is so weak that most relic owner would just use something else.

As a relic owner I'm terrified and very upset every time I log-on and wield my relic weapon, especially when an emp weapon can easily one-shot an IT aby mob...

Think about it SE, they way it is now it's definitely off balance. People with relic weapon (like me) lost trust in you.

Can you advise? Or at least tell us that this is the way you want relic to be or you will do something about it.

I own a gugnir myself, the weaponskills from these things aren't the greatest, but they are indeed powerful weapons. The 90 versions, if you are dedicated to do the ws trials (easy in my book), they can add huge boost to your relic ws. Even my drakesbane went through the roof once I got to the 90 version o_o.

My regular damage:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/DScythe99/pol2011-02-2614-18-48-82.jpg
with numbers similar to it. The only thing I could see helping out relic owners is to tone down the currency costs to make them more widely avaliable to users who don't have the Abyssea LS willing to make an empyrean.

[Rambus]

I own a gugnir myself, the weaponskills from these things aren't the greatest, but they are indeed powerful weapons. The 90 versions, if you are dedicated to do the ws trials (easy in my book), they can add huge boost to your relic ws. Even my drakesbane went through the roof once I got to the 90 version o_o.

My regular damage:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/DScythe99/pol2011-02-2614-18-48-82.jpg
with numbers similar to it. The only thing I could see helping out relic owners is to tone down the currency costs to make them more widely avaliable to users who don't have the Abyssea LS willing to make an empyrean.

you don't need an abyssea ls, you can solo them as long as people want to exp in the first abyssea zones, and people want items from the second one. the last one is a bit harder solo but there is nothing stopping you from getting a set of 4 to farm for emps for each other ( at that point you don't need to worry about if people want to exp in the first 3 abyssea zones)


if going purely by difficulty of obtaining, it should be mythic > relic > emp; mythics are far, far more difficult to obtain.

Mythics have a price issue since 75. 50 000 was too much, 30 000 is still too much when SE said "quest based" SE said relic > mythic was the intent so where does that leave emps?

( yes im saying mythics need to be a bit easier to get, and needs a lot of buffing for some)

these mythic weapons need to be more then a 10 min ja macro

[Alhanelem]

Mythics have a price issue since 75Alexandrites are just one piece of the puzzle. You also need a jillion points from Nyzul and Einherjar, beat 3 beastmen leaders hat no one ever fights, and do every single assault twice, and beat all of Salvage (of course, that last bit is easily done will collecting the bazillion alexandrites). The bonus is nyzul, salvage, and assault are all mutually exclusive from eachother (meaning, doing one makes it difficult to do the others at the same time)

If you have a limiteless supply of gil, you can plunk it down and have most of the work of a relic avoided. But having unlimited gil does not speed up a mythic that much because no one has alexandrite to sell.

[Sama]

Here is my most recent SS right before server goes down:

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss218/microwater888/lolMetsu.png

[Alhanelem]

That's cool and all, but if you're using critrate/critdamage atmas, those don't affect Metsu one tiny bit, so to make the comparisons fair, you need to use either no atmas, or the best atma configurations possible for each.

[Lyall]

That's cool and all, but if you're using critrate/critdamage atmas, those don't affect Metsu one tiny bit, so to make the comparisons fair, you need to use either no atmas, or the best atma configurations possible for each.

It would have to be no atma at all due to the monstrous boost crit skills get from RR. As far as I can remember/know, there's nothing for non-crit that compares.

[Huevriel]

Alexandrites are just one piece of the puzzle. You also need a jillion points from Nyzul and Einherjar, beat 3 beastmen leaders hat no one ever fights, and do every single assault twice, and beat all of Salvage (of course, that last bit is easily done will collecting the bazillion alexandrites). The bonus is nyzul, salvage, and assault are all mutually exclusive from eachother (meaning, doing one makes it difficult to do the others at the same time)

If you have a limiteless supply of gil, you can plunk it down and have most of the work of a relic avoided. But having unlimited gil does not speed up a mythic that much because no one has alexandrite to sell.

Been working on my Mythic Gun for COR for a couple years now. Consistently getting friends to climb up all the assault ranks (lots and lots of repeats) for Captain Rank. In a sense, getting the mythic is just slightly easier now with some of the tweaks with salvage and what not (if you want to farm your alexandrite) and especially with the level cap increase (even easier to low man farming runs).
I'm still slaving away for that mythic cannon on a 2x4. (inb4 "lol ur dumb just get the Armageddon. Death Penalty sucks" which i get quite a lot)

Edit: The amount of effort and storyline behind Mythics makes it worth so much more than Emp and Relic IMO. I don't care if it doesn't do max damage. Friend wants Nagi so much more over the Kannagi.

[Atomic_Skull]

I'm glad to see SE making relic's more accessible to casual players.

They haven't really, currency is going to go up in price after these dynamis changes not down. The problem is that relics are no longer worth the effort.



A relic weapon will be easier to obtain after the version update and probably much cheaper, so maybe it should sit below an empyrean weapon.... who knows...

You haven't been to the new Dynamis have you?

[Atomic_Skull]

Ochain blocks far more often than Agies,

Actually they just changed Aegis this update so that it's -magic damage doesn't count to the 50% cap. With Shell V and -26% in -magic damage gear you can get -90% magic damage with lvl 90 Aegis. If Aegis' stats continue to increase 5% for lvl 95 and 99 then lvl 99 Aegis will have -50% magic damage, which unless SE adds some sort of hard cap would make you completely immune to magic damage.

Burtgang was similarly adjusted so that it's -physical damage received doesn't count to the 50% cap. By lvl 99 Burtgang should have -20% physical damage that does not count to the cap.

[Zumi]

They haven't really, currency is going to go up in price after these dynamis changes not down. The problem is that relics are no longer worth the effort.



You haven't been to the new Dynamis have you?

You need to proc anything for currency drops pretty much. Some people go in for an hour and come out with several hundreds. You can proc normal mobs for multiple singles as well.

[Runespider]

They haven't really, currency is going to go up in price after these dynamis changes not down. The problem is that relics are no longer worth the effort.

I have a relic and helped my shell get 6 for others, they were NEVER worth the effort. It's just they were the top teir status gear you could get so people went for it.

The same amount of currency should come out of it, it's just more spread out among everyone instead of a few groups getting it all. Now everyone can go in with /dnc and get some pocket change out of it, will make relics more expensive because sponsorship will die out but I was never a fan of that anyway..and it seems neither was Square.

Current coin distribution is bad for relic upgraders but good for everyone else that wants some gil.

[Ravenmore]

Its great for people who might only need one or two pieces of af2 and are not bound to the 3 hour run for the sponsor. Once the trick is worked out currecy will level out. Once we all hit 99 the diffculty will go back down with it being only slightly more diffcult. Some will see it as a new way to make gil other will go in get the af2 and never look back. This most likey won't bring people back to it that have been done with it.

[Alukat]

I think it should still be possible to get 100+ currencys within 3 days trio (trio'd often and we obtained 100+ currencys within 3 1/2 hours every 3 days) but now we are killing mobs there and in 4 hours we just got 18 currencys.old system was better if u wanna build a relic by yourself without to bother many ppl to help.now u are able to get some drops by doing dynamis but u still have to buy many of them because droprate sucks :x.