Pet Shop

[Gotterdammerung]

Please consider a well-stocked NPC pet shop. Every other job with expensive consumables now has a NPC that sells their tools. This helps to regulate the price from greedy crafters and also helps to make sure a player is never screwed due to low stock. Right now i spend insane amounts of gil weekly to stay stocked. And sometimes i go to restock and theres none for sale. That is terribly disruptive for me, especially if it happens on my petshell event night.

Also, on a side note, I have always thought it would be neat to have a beastmaster AF quest line which upon completion would reward a beastmaster with a choice of a personalized pet from a list of more rare types of monsters. Ex. Kraken, opo-opo, hex eye, ect.

[Fetus]

This is an awesome idea. I wish raising pets was as intensive and rewarding as leveling Pokemon is. I've always wanted a pet roc. :3

[Yopop]

Fetus leave ur pokemon cards in the mog house >.<

[Daniel_Hatcher]

This would be a good idea, Especially if they sold the ingredients to make the food at a reasonable price.

[Valmur]

Please consider a well-stocked NPC pet shop. Every other job with expensive consumables now has a NPC that sells their tools. This helps to regulate the price from greedy crafters and also helps to make sure a player is never screwed due to low stock. Right now i spend insane amounts of gil weekly to stay stocked. And sometimes i go to restock and theres none for sale. That is terribly disruptive for me, especially if it happens on my petshell event night.

Also, on a side note, I have always thought it would be neat to have a beastmaster AF quest line which upon completion would reward a beastmaster with a choice of a personalized pet from a list of more rare types of monsters. Ex. Kraken, opo-opo, hex eye, ect.

Personally I would love this idea, but maybe with a Behemoth,Gnole,Manticore ;)

[Stefiki]

This would be so convenient and a much less stressful way of obtaining pets and pet food. Nothing is worse than finally convincing yourself to go buy that stack of yulys for 100k, just to find out there aren't any in stock. -_- Also would be nice if the pets didn't cost 100k lol A pet shop also sounds like a good place for BST's to find other BST's, or pet LS's, on their server without /shouting for them in Jueno. Personalized pets would really make BST a much more unique job, and i think that's really important nowadays with the lack of charming and all. We become more like WAR's when we enter abyssea than ever before. We get to customize and name our chocobos, dragons and NPC fellows, why not give us a similar system with BST pets?

[ch405]

Customized Pets sounds like a great idea to me.

My idea for that would be using the old system introduced in ToAU, the monster arena thing. Have it where you can Name, Customize, and Level Up your Pet and then take the Official thing used there and convert it into a reusable item that works like a jug, just calling your monster instead of some NQ or HQ predefined jug pet. Maybe even setting it up so you can level it outside of the arena that way as well. The personalized monster 'jug' could be set up so that you could use it every so often, between every 20 to 60 minutes seems reasonable as per how timers go in game. I'd rather see 20 mins TOPs.

Of course there'd probably be some limits to what type of creature you can use, such as no elementals and stuff, but we would love, LOVE to see some other non-charmables as Jug Pets at least... Roc, Manticore, Cokatrice, etc.

[Fabby]

Gotta catch them all? lol

I personally don't mind the crafting of Jug pets, as I can craft the majority of them as well as farm the materials. I sell the extra and make a little gil on the side, so nothing wrong with this process. I can't right now say farm my own Dipper Lesser Chigoes for the jugs, but I am working on it. I cannot craft the high level alchemy or woodworking ones yet, but I am working on it. One day I will.

For me thats part of the fun.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I say no to the pet shop, I wont EVER pay 10k for a single Dancing Herbal Broth. And you all know that the NPC prices will be even more outrageous then that.
Just look at universal ninja tools...

[guinness]

I leveled my cooking long ago (was very fast and cheap to lvl) so I dont mind farming/synthing my pet supply/needs. Actually I kinda like being able to use my cooking skills...now if I could just find a reason to use my leather.....

[Gotterdammerung]

Gotta catch them all? lol

I personally don't mind the crafting of Jug pets, as I can craft the majority of them as well as farm the materials. I sell the extra and make a little gil on the side, so nothing wrong with this process. I can't right now say farm my own Dipper Lesser Chigoes for the jugs, but I am working on it. I cannot craft the high level alchemy or woodworking ones yet, but I am working on it. One day I will.

For me thats part of the fun.

If you are a crafter then Obviously u wont like this idea. You make money of the Monopoly u hold on pet prices. Doesnt change that monopolies are bad for the economy.






I say no to the pet shop, I wont EVER pay 10k for a single Dancing Herbal Broth. And you all know that the NPC prices will be even more outrageous then that.
Just look at universal ninja tools...

Who says the prices are gunna be unreasonable? 13,500 gil-15000 gil for 99 universal tools seems like a decent deal to me. Its definately better than 30,000- 50,000 gil for 12 pet cookies.

[Fabby]

If you are a crafter then Obviously u wont like this idea. You make money of the Monopoly u hold on pet prices. Doesnt change that monopolies are bad for the economy.

You have an opinion, how nice for you. I'm a crafter becuase I needed to make money in this game to afford things, DUH.

I hold a monopoly?! Fellow BST, I simply supply the demand. I make profit because people are paying for it, because that's the price they've been paying for it.

Don't like it? Tough cookie's buddy boy. Either learn to craft, or grab a cooking LS mate/firend with the cooking skill and provide them with the materials YOU FARM to make the jugs for you.

I call you lazy sir. This is why we can't have nice things. Good day!

[Fabby]

And another thing. Crafters are to blame for this "monopoly" scheme you thought of?

Son, why do you think I craft jugs in the first place? Because I'm a bloody BEASTMASTER!

Stop blaming your inability to learn the crafts, and farm the materials on others willing to do the work for you. Without us you wouldn't have the darn things. You should be grateful, but since you can't be... we'll take your gil instead.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Gotta catch them all? lol

I personally don't mind the crafting of Jug pets, as I can craft the majority of them as well as farm the materials. I sell the extra and make a little gil on the side, so nothing wrong with this process. I can't right now say farm my own Dipper Lesser Chigoes for the jugs, but I am working on it. I cannot craft the high level alchemy or woodworking ones yet, but I am working on it. One day I will.

For me thats part of the fun.

How comes? You can harvest the Lesser Chigoe in Grauberg (S).

[Fabby]

Ah yes, can harvest but extremely low output. Lower than the steal rate from Wild Karakul's, and chocobo digging. Working on chocobo digging and my wife is working on her THF! Hopefully we'll be grabbing them up with some type of regularity in the near future. And yeah, I would sell some of the extra's. Evil me, I know.

[Gotterdammerung]

You call me lazy because you don't know me. You might be able to farm and cook the pet supplies you need to live at your pace, but i blow through an insane amount of supplies a week. I have cooking leveled but if i stopped to craft what i needed id be crafting for a few days, and thats time i dont have. This thread isnt even about that. Its about bst getting what everyone else has. Angon NPC sells it. Automaton oils NPC sells it, Corsair cards NPC sells it, Universal tools NPC sells it. I still maintain that a NPC with endgame appropriate Cookies and jugs is both fair and needed. It helps to regulate crafting prices and ensures that a bstmaster always has the tools needed to actually play the job.

[Yopop]

ouch to a pet shop, if you do then my BeastyMart mule would be put out of business ^^

5k for Sheep and 13k for Zeta food :)

[Fabby]

You call me lazy because you don't know me. You might be able to farm and cook the pet supplies you need to live at your pace, but i blow through an insane amount of supplies a week. I have cooking leveled but if i stopped to craft what i needed id be crafting for a few days, and thats time i dont have. This thread isnt even about that. Its about bst getting what everyone else has. Angon NPC sells it. Automaton oils NPC sells it, Corsair cards NPC sells it, Universal tools NPC sells it. I still maintain that a NPC with endgame appropriate Cookies and jugs is both fair and needed. It helps to regulate crafting prices and ensures that a bstmaster always has the tools needed to actually play the job.

So, you can craft the stuff you need, but you choose not to because it's not worth your time... but buying them from the AH is evil, because of "price monopoly".

Yeah, you are lazy.


Look, I don't want to butt heads with a fellow beastmaster of a matter of opinions regarding how we choose to play this game. I'll just end this back and forth with you by saying, this "pet shop" idea will never happen. Ever. Never. Jugs will still need to be crafted, you will still need to craft them, buy them... whatever. And those that craft will profit from it.

[Xilk]

If you would have asked me 1 year ago if we needed a jug shop, I would have said "DEFINITELY!!"

Today, nope. The recipes and prices for jugs are rather appropriate. I like the economy that exists. I"ve farmed every single new jug recipe. They are perfectly appropriate for a level 90 bst. shucks, we've got dipper. Farming for our jugs once a week is not hard at all, and you can make a killing doing it.

[Gotterdammerung]

Heres the difference between me and you. I am introducing an idea from the perspective of whats good for the majority and you are responding with "it's no problem for me i just craft what i need." i find your response self-centered and your insults distasteful.

Personally, I have 0 problems with gil. It's incredibly ignorant to call me lazy because i would rather spend 4 hours making 2-4 mil doing exciting things that actually feel like playing the game, instead of 4 hours of boring farming and crafting for insuffecient supplies and or chump change. But there are a LOT of bstmasters who lack the gil to blow on some of the more outrageously priced jugs. And not everyone wants to have to craft all there stuff or be beholden to crafters for their everyday JOB ABILITY needs.

But we can even ignore the crafting part. There is other points to focus on. For instance, some of the pet supplies are never even for sale ever. Mole broths and the 99 stack pet foods are difficult to find for sale on the AH. ur answer is "just go craft them!" but as i said b4 not everyone enjoys crafting.
Being understocked is incredibly disruptive to playtime for non-crafters.

and lastly, again its only FAIR. Every job has an NPC. Except beastmaster.

P.S. Just because someone doesnt find crafting fun, doesnt mean they are lazy, or should lose all their money, or should go without valuable items needed to play their job. Ive seriously had more fun playing facebook games than i have had crafting.

[Superchicken]

Heres the difference between me and you. I am introducing an idea from the perspective of whats good for the majority and you are responding with "it's no problem for me i just craft what i need." i find your response self-centered and your insults distasteful.

Personally, I have 0 problems with gil. It's incredibly ignorant to call me lazy because i would rather spend 4 hours making 2-4 mil doing exciting things that actually feel like playing the game, instead of 4 hours of boring farming and crafting for insuffecient supplies and or chump change. But there are a LOT of bstmasters who lack the gil to blow on some of the more outrageously priced jugs. And not everyone wants to have to craft all there stuff or be beholden to crafters for their everyday JOB ABILITY needs.

But we can even ignore the crafting part. There is other points to focus on. For instance, some of the pet supplies are never even for sale ever. Mole broths and the 99 stack pet foods are difficult to find for sale on the AH. ur answer is "just go craft them!" but as i said b4 not everyone enjoys crafting.
Being understocked is incredibly disruptive to playtime for non-crafters.

and lastly, again its only FAIR. Every job has an NPC. Except beastmaster.

P.S. Just because someone doesnt find crafting fun, doesnt mean they are lazy, or should lose all their money, or should go without valuable items needed to play their job. Ive seriously had more fun playing facebook games than i have had crafting.


So cause crafting isn't fun we should have a shop that sells the stuff. Because farming mats takes time that we would rather spend doing other stuff we should have a shop for this? Because i'm a beastmaster and can't cook my own jugs or pet food we should have a shop for this? How about my hands get tired of holding a controller to play the game can we auto pilot mode please.

Seriously, I leveled my cooking to support my BST. If BST's can't find a way to get the jugs and food they need I say they aren't trying hard enough. Yes farming for mats to make your supplies sucks but guess what, that's part of the game.

In a sense your logic would apply to this situation. Hey SE, i hate running around farming my popsets to fight NM's to build my empyrean weapons, can we just have a shop so i can buy the Briarus helms, the Carabosse gems, the Glavoid shells, the Chloris buds, etc.

So as you can tell Pet Shop idea is a big X imo. Don't like the supply of BST items available on your AH on your server? find ways to combat it even if its farming your mats and having people craft for you even though you rather be doign something else. Goes back to the old saying "life's not easy"

[Xilk]

I'm sorry to see an argument about this become personal. I think a pet shop could be made to work. On the other hand there is a clear impact of having vs not having one on crafter vs consumers. Sometimes you are both, sometimes not.

It could work, but I don't see a need. I hope you 2 can discuss the issues and forgive for the personal insults that have been made. We have more in common that different here.

[Gotterdammerung]

@Superchicken, i listed several reasons for the pet shop. But some of them were based on opinion. Maybe that was a mistake on my part. So let me just Focus on the facts.


Yes farming for mats to make your supplies sucks but guess what, that's part of the game.

..... even if its farming your mats and having people craft for you even though you rather be doign something else.

A Beastmaster must do these things you suggest to get its pet food or end up spending a large sum of money.

A puppetmaster Buys his automaton oil +2 from Gavrie (and NPC) for 6k a stack(12). He does not need to spend a large sum of money or do anything extemporaneous. He is also never at risk of his pet healing item being OUT of STOCK.

There are other examples of NPC stores but i feel this one most closely shows the unfairness present.

So having made this point, I ask you this question.

Why is it fair and natural for a beastmaster to have farm materials and craft his supplies or have them crafted or spend large sums of money to buy them from players, WHEN a puppetmaster does not EVER need to do these things to fuel his very similar pet healing Job ability?

P.S. thank you for keeping your argument civil instead of riddled with insults. And also thank you Xilk for your attempt to keep the peace and your keen observation of the crafter Vs consumer nature of this conflict.

[Superchicken]

the only way a pet shop would be somewhat OK is if they did what they have already done and offer only a couple jugs from NPC. For instance, the fuguarfamiliar jug sold from npc in kazham. To me that is fine, but having a shop that offers all jugpets and/or all pet food would not work, would hurt the crafters.

Lets look at pup as you state. yes you can buy the oil from npc, and yes you can buy SOME of the attachments from npc, but other attachments you either have to farm yourself from Ashu Talif fights, or go farm off Trolls etc. or you pay what people want for them on the ah.

And it seems you lean your argument now about farming supplies for pet food. Well this ain't even bad for pet food eta now since they changed the recipe to be made with Buffalo meat now. I dont now about your server buy my server always has exp parties at Bluffalo camp in Abyssea Uleg. so for those who don't want to farm on their own there is always meat on ah, and Apkallu eggs easily farmed in Abyssea Mis.

So like i said if SE wanted to throw one of the newer jugs on an NPC for sale that would be OK, but if all of BST's needs were offered from an NPC they would catch a huge earful from all the cooks, i know i would be mad if they did this. Selling pet food and jugs is a good income that many cooks take advantage of, having an npc regulate the prices on this would be fail.

[Gotterdammerung]

you cant compare Automaton attachments to pet food or jugs. They are 2 different things.
This topic is about "consumable items" these are items that fuel job abilities and must be replenished.
Spell scrolls, Automaton attachments, Blue spells. These are all things that you obtain once. They are not consumable items and therefore have no bearing on this topic.

Your entire argument against this idea can be boiled down into one statement.

"No, I am against this idea as i currently exploit the current system to make gil for myself."

And personally, i am fine with your stance against this idea. That is your 2 cents. You like lining your pockets with gil and why wouldnt you.

I just dont see that as a good reason to stand in the way of fairness and change. And that is my 2 cents. And my reason for starting this topic.

[SNK]

Please consider a well-stocked NPC pet shop. Every other job with expensive consumables now has a NPC that sells their tools. This helps to regulate the price from greedy crafters and also helps to make sure a player is never screwed due to low stock. Right now i spend insane amounts of gil weekly to stay stocked. And sometimes i go to restock and theres none for sale. That is terribly disruptive for me, especially if it happens on my petshell event night.

Also, on a side note, I have always thought it would be neat to have a beastmaster AF quest line which upon completion would reward a beastmaster with a choice of a personalized pet from a list of more rare types of monsters. Ex. Kraken, opo-opo, hex eye, ect.

Because it's impossible to go out and farm materials to make your own jug pets right?



If you are a crafter then Obviously u wont like this idea. You make money of the Monopoly u hold on pet prices. Doesnt change that monopolies are bad for the economy.

This isn't a monopoly. You really should understand what that word really means before you throw it out there.

[Judge]

there are pet foods being sold from Chocobo stables. Funguarfamiliar from kazham. a few of the newer pets scattered around at other reasonable shops might not be a terrible idea. Everyone uses yuluyulyyuly sheepsheepsheepsheep. but what about monster correlations?

i would be fine to pay 2k per pet from a random NPC to make sure i had a special pet for a special NM my LS was fighting. being higher priced than a crafted stack is still acceptable when there hasnt been stack of the pet up for weeks, maybe i would like to chuck a diremite at a plantoid or something similar and there are none for sale. hours or farming for a rare use pet is a waste of time when you have short notice or run out of pets during an important timeframe. nothing to say about being lazy since majority of the pets on AH arent being crafted by anyone.

The Shop/Shops could be guild style. only a few sold each game day. and then increased price per demand. when none have been bought the price goes down. or ppl vendor their pets and drive the price down slowly because of high supply.

[SNK]

It's because people are having a hardon about Dipper is why all this major bitching is happening. It's a good pet for farming NMs or drops but I'd rather use my sheep for crap where I'm not giving a rat's ass about anything other then damage.

All I see is nothing but lazy from this guy because he's unwilling to go out and do the work most everyone else has done. And calling crafters greedy is beyond stupid. A lot of crafters sunk a lot of gil & time into leveling their crafts so they should indeed be rewarded for their time spent.

If you came about and called a Goldsmither a greedy bastard because he's charging a lot of gil for his synths then I promise you everyone would think you stupid because of it.

[Gotterdammerung]

@SNK
A lot of time and money? for cooking? You sure? I got my cooking to 60 in 2 days and actually made 100k off of it. I really dont see that as "a lot of time and money." I dont really see how you can compare a cook to a goldsmith considering one of them takes no time at all and actually ends up profiting you while u lvl it and the other takes months and costs millions to lvl.

You are ignoring the facts i have presented. Instead you focus on attacking the opinions i have stated as well as insulting me.

But hey, in the end its the dev team im talking to and not you. I think they will respond to clear and concise suggestions over petty insults and selfish intentions.

[Superchicken]

you got your cooking to 60 in two days grats, but we are talking about the 100+ cookers here. And of course i want to make gil off my craft its why i spent gil/time/effort leveling it. Your logic would go along with saying the same like hey lets put all weapons and armor in shops too because i can't find x armor cause none are up on the ah so i should be able to buy from npc. You really need to think about what you are asking here. Is it fair to the crafters to have their items they make to supply themselves with gil all buyable from npcs? i think not. I'm a main ranger and have to buy my arrows off ah, you don't hear me saying that i should be able to buy my arrows from npc's. Its part of the game bro. So either make your own stuff, if you can't farm your own mats (regardless of how time consumable it is, i mean think about it, all FFXI is a time sink no matter what you do so by now should be use to it), find someone who can craft for you (and if its someone you find through shouting i hope you tip them), or find another job to play. This game is coming to the point where everyone wants everything so easy (want easy there's always WoW). the "hey SE i can't do this or this takes too much time, so you should make it easier for me" complaints are becoming more and more.

So yes would i be upset if npcs sold my stuff i craft of course. Does it make me rich selling jugs and food no, but it does keep my daily expenses of arrows ninja tools etc more at bay. Like I said, when a ranger complains about arrow prices or availability on the ah the common response is "level woodworking and make your own" same goes here. What your asking is for SE to tailor to you because you don't like the conditions set but you can solve the problem yourself your just not willing to because it takes time to do and takes you away from the other things you'd rather be doing in game.

"I wish my bills paid themselves, but guess what I have to go to work to make money so i can pay my bills."

I'm not trying to sound like a whatever you want to call me, but think about what you are asking SE to do to help YOU, and then think about who suffers from this. You said i don't want this cause it will hurt my pocket as a crafter but you are asking SE to do something cause right now it would hurt YOUR way the time you spend in game. Calling me selfish in a way seems what you are asking is the same thing. Pot calling the kettle black here.


Oh and as i say i play ranger alot an arrows were expensive so know what i did, i leveled woodworking on a mule so i can support my job. When the level increases came and the new antlion arrows and ruszor arrows came into the game I didnt want to mess with crafting them myself so guess what i did, i found a buddy who can make them so i farm mats he makes. If i don't feel like farming i deal with ah prices, if none on ah i deal with not having them. It's life, everything can't be handed to us in a way that better suits us.

[SNK]

@SNK
A lot of time and money? for cooking? You sure? I got my cooking to 60 in 2 days and actually made 100k off of it. I really dont see that as "a lot of time and money." I dont really see how you can compare a cook to a goldsmith considering one of them takes no time at all and actually ends up profiting you while u lvl it and the other takes months and costs millions to lvl.

There is no difference at all. All I see is bitching about the prices of Jug Pets on the AH. So what if they're too high for you. Don't like it? Go and farm your own mats instead of trying to bitch that you're paying too much for a convience.


You are ignoring the facts i have presented. Instead you focus on attacking the opinions i have stated as well as insulting me.

The only fact which is concrete is that you are lazy. That's it.



But hey, in the end its the dev team im talking to and not you. I think they will respond to clear and concise suggestions over petty insults and selfish intentions.

And the Dev team doesn't make an effort to listen to stupid suggestions. Seriously think before you post.

[Superchicken]

as SNK has stated, i doubt dev team would even bother here, cause again you are asking them to do something to help you cause you don't want to spend the time it takes to really get what you need. Yes farming takes time, and yes we would all rather be out doing something else than farming mats, but like i've said thats part of the game. Have you not ever done salvage before the increase drop rates, where numerous runs would occur and you never saw drops, or camped HNM's for hours to only not get claim. I mean really think about what you are asking, its like saying "hey dev team, i do salvage every night and rarely see a 35 gear drop, you should make an NPC sell it" (of course i'm just using salvage to make a point cause really who does salvage anymore), or hey SE i camp fafhogg, turtle, KB every day for 3 hours and never get claim so make those drings, ridills, abjurations buyable from npc (again kings as just an exampel as most king gear is blah except that D ring, these days). Do you see the point SNK and are trying to make here?

Just need to realize this game is a time sink its how SE makes their money. Think about it, make a game where it takes countless hours to get stuff done keeps people playing longer which means we get more monthly payments. See what i'm getting at? If you can't see this and need an MMO where stuff gets done faster i hear WoW is pretty easy to do anything but i've also heard its full of whiny kids, but what game isn't right? But i'm not attacking you here just trying to get you to see what you are really asking SE to do and apply it across the board and just not to your situation that helps you or a few others but harms others in the same process.

[Gotterdammerung]

@SNK If all you see is "bitching about the prices of jugs on the AH" then you obviously havent read my posts. Stop skim reading and skipping pages and actually get caught up on the conversation before you post. Maybe then you can at least make an attempt at accuracy when you choose to slander.

@Superchicken,
Ive said before, I brought up the whole crafting farming vs high priced AH side of this argument in order to represent all categories of people who would want a pet shop.

You keep focusing on this aspect of the discussion. I don't craft because it is A. boring B. not good use of my time.
In the time it takes me to farm mats and cook i can instead solo 4-5 zone bosses for mercenary work and make enough gil to support my pet supplies for the next few months. (@SNK if making more money than you in a shorter amount of time means im lazy then i guess so be it.)

Either way this portion of the discussion is opinion and boils down to "i dont like being forced to either do something i hate or pay all my money just to be able to use my basic class abilities in a GAME thats meant to be for recreation" Versus "I believe in crafting, i feel good being self sufficient and i also enjoy making money of people who are either too lazy to do the dirty work for themselves or people who are too rich to care."


But you still havent answered my question.

Why is it fair for some jobs to have their supplies sold from NPC stores at reasonable prices, and other jobs to be subjected to Price gouging, understocked AH's, and/or hours of busy work?

And i think this part of my argument probably has been ignored for pages simply because it IS NOT fair. Its much easier to just ignore this part and attack the opinion portion of my suggestion.

Here is another point, Pet shops alredy exist. They have just fallen behind and need to be updated. For a LONG time beastmasters had been able to rely on a cheap source of quality jug pets via Funguar familiars from khazam. I mean endgame didnt always mean 90 or even 75 for that matter. There was a time where beastmasters could get use out of NPC pet stores. Was it lazy then? Did it ruin crafting then? No. It merely gave us a reliable way to combat the understocked AH.

P.S. as for ur comment about rangers having to craft or purchase arrows from the AH, they are free to make the same arguments im making on the ranger suggestion page. Saying ranger has to put up with it too, doesnt prove anything. It just points out one more class that is being treated unfairly. Hell if they dont want to add a pet shop then remove all consumables for all jobs from all NPCs. at least then it would be fair and everyone would get screwed.

[Superchicken]

your use of the word fair is an issue. Life's not fair, yes i pulled that card. And you talk about other pet jobs can buy their supplies from vendors. Yes pup can buy their oil from vendor, yes they can buy some of those attachements and yes they are a one time use. But go look at the the price on the ah it cost for those High End attachments that come from Ashu Talif. Dont know about your server but on my server you are talking 300,000 upwards to 1 mil for one attachment that at times were even higher priced than that.

You say you can make more than enough gil farming NM's to supply your needs well throw some of that money at some cooks to keep you in supply. If you can't get a cook willing to be your supplier or meet your demands then either make your own etc. If you don't want to do that then you deal with it. I know my server is always in stock of jugs and foods and if not a cook sees it quickly and gets more on the ah. Just remember if you aint doing the farming for the mats someone is and you are gonna pay for it. Asking SE to bring about the pet store because your server dont meet your demands on terms of the crafters isn't what you like to call FAIR. When dipper yuly hit the game they were expensive cause of the chigoe mat. So guess what, the pain that was to farm reflected its high price, and you better believe i took advantage of it.

Thats the beauty of crafting supply and demand economics at its best. You want something and the supply is low you gonna pay for it. Asking SE to bail you out of your dilema because your server cant meet your needs is going too far. Now you want to ask for say one or maybe even two of the higher level jug pets to be bought from an NPC i may give you that but they shouldnt be the two best jugs around. I'd give you two mediocre pets buyable from NPC. And the best pet food from an NPC no way. Eta would never make it to an NPC imo and i'd be hesitant to offer Zeta from one as well.

Ever job has their pros and cons, thats how the game works. PUPs can get a lot of their lower attachments and oils from NPC. Good for pup. But like i said those big attachments from Ashu talif gonna cost you if you dont want to hunt them yourself. Buts lets also remember this was their when 75 was the cap. Nothings changed for pup, no new attachments no new oils so using that job is kind of irrelevant because if their were new attachments who's to say how they would be attained. Now when 75 was the cap funguar and CC were the primary all around pets for those with gil limitations as they were priced reasonable and funguar was easy to get from NPC, but guess what if you wanted Chopseuy, Amigo, Lars, etc you were gonna pay more. Now he case with BST is they got new pets with the level increase. And same holds true here. There are pets that are cheap and always stocked on the ah here. If you want the more prominant pets that bring a little more to the table you gonna pay for it, and yes if theres a crap mat in the mix theres a chance you wont see it on ah that much cause no one wants to farm it, and if they do farm it you gonna see it in the price.

Your problem seems to be with your server though in supplying your demands and asking SE to fix that with a pet store is not the answer in my opinion and i hope you can see this as well. As i have before you can use any situation here, back in the day Haubergeons, SH's, Hauberks, etc were main gear pieces for dd's. And they were pricey and not always available, so would asking SE to have an NPC to supply this be the solution? That's the easy way out and the spoonfed way to solve it.

My suggestion has been stated and is simple. Take matters into your own hands. YOu say you got gil and plenty of it well make an inticing offer to a cook to go farm what you want and make it for you. If the price is right i'm sure you will find someone to do it. Look at the ah sales talk to the person make the majority of the sales, tell them to contact you before they put items on ah, and you'll even pay x amount more than the ah price. And i'll say it again, go farm a lot of mats and have a cook stock you up. If you can't spare one day out of your ffxi time to farm up mats to keep yourself in supply then i don't know what to tell you other than you must not care too much about those items you want to use but can't get ahold of and are not making any effort on your own and simply asking SE to have an NPC supply you.

Saying any job is being treated unfairly because X job get this and X job gets that is kind of a moot point. If you play BST you know what comes with it. Theres a chance your jugs wont be on the ah, theres a chance your pet food wont be on the ah, etc. If you play war and you want a versahauberk theres a chance there wont be any on the ah, if you play BLM theres a chance your spell you want wont be on the ah, if you play any dd job and want x weapon off the ah theres a chance it wont be there. Here's one for the mix, i play ninja and the best shuriken are never on the ah and come from ashu talif where only 1 drops. This is unfair, i should be able to buy from an NPC. I'm hoping you are seeing the point here. Asking anyone who plays any job and they can give you at least one thing thats so called UNFAIR about it and maybe it is, but when you state that the AH does not supply you with your demands of an item and its unfair so an NPC should sell it, thats kind of ludicris to me. Its what makes a BST a BST in a way. Back in the 75 days you didnt see every BST running around with Amigos and Chopseuys and Lars because they were expsensive and the HQ rate on crafting the Chops and Lars were not too high. So if you saw a BST using those you were in aw and looked at that pet then looked at your poor CourierCarrie and just went on about your way. "I still love you Carrie its ok, lets go kill some more stuff!" The times havent changed. The sought after pets always gonna be in demand and usually the supply doesnt meet it, thats the breaks. That's when you look at the suggestions i have stated to solve your problem, asking SE to solve it with an NPC not plausible if you ask me.

Good luck and happy BSTing

this is your post


Please consider a well-stocked NPC pet shop. Every other job with expensive consumables now has a NPC that sells their tools. This helps to regulate the price from greedy crafters and also helps to make sure a player is never screwed due to low stock. Right now i spend insane amounts of gil weekly to stay stocked. And sometimes i go to restock and theres none for sale. That is terribly disruptive for me, especially if it happens on my petshell event night.

and not to beat the nail over the head again you asking for a shop because your servers crafters can't keep you in supply. Again this can be applied across the board to anything ahable. "Hey SE my favorite foods are sole sushi and curry buns, but the ah never has them instock, so make a shop where i can buy them." Again you like to use the word FAIR, and again i say is it fair to the crafters to have everything they make money off of available from NPC, or lets go further and turn it around to items that arent craftable. "Hey SE i think the price of the multi use ninja tools over available from NPC is too high, and should be craftable so that the price will come down due to crafters having to sell lower than the NPC to have anyone actually buy them." Does that sound reasonable? I dont think so.

[Gotterdammerung]

By saying "life's not fair" you admit that the current situation is unfair. If its unfair then why shouldnt we strive to fix it.

P.S. again this topic is in regards to Consumable items that fuel JOB ABILITIES. This means it has nothing to do with armor, spells, attachments, food. All of these things are one time purchases and are completely unrelated to the topic. I by no means ever suggested that SE make everything NPCable. I do however believe in a reliable source for items required to fuel job abilites.

[Superchicken]

by saying lifes not fair doesn't mean i think your situation is unfair at all. I think your situation is you being upset that the ah at times does not have what you want cause you said this yourself as why you want a pet shop. You think its unfair, You want a npc shop, because your server doesn't get your ah stocked on what you need.

please read your statment of again


P.S. again this topic is in regards to Consumable items that fuel JOB ABILITIES. This means it has nothing to do with armor, spells, attachments, food. All of these things are one time purchases and are completely unrelated to the topic. I by no means ever suggested that SE make everything NPCable. I do however believe in a reliable source for items required to fuel job abilites.

Since when is food a one time purchase? That would be so great that we could buy one sushi one curry bun one any kind of food on the ah and only have to use it once. So i think you made a mistake in saying this in which the comparison is perfectly legit. The fact that food doesnt go with a job ability like call beast or reward has no relevance in your argument, its consumable that IS NOT a one time use. So again my argument that "hey SE my server never has Red Curry Buns on the ah, so give me an NPC that sells them is perfectly legit and comparable to yours of having a pet shop to sell the jugs and pet food that your AH cant provide you." I don't see how you can't see this. So you want to throw armor and stuff out of the equation because its not consumable fine, doesn't really matter, the concept is still the same. Your statement of "the ah dont have it in stock, i need it, its my LS event day and i need it now, so give me an NPC to buy it from" still applies. How can you think otherwise. But anyway take the armor and what not out of the question and i'll stick with my food argument. It's a consumable used more than once, it's crafted, and possibly not always on AH when you want it. So lets make a NPC food shop that carries all the food items possible. Yes there are NPCs that sell some food items but not Red Curry Buns and that's what i want so give me an NPC that sells them! Not gonna happen and you know why its to keep things balanced in game.

Now i said before ok so maybe we give you a lvl 90 jug thats buyable from an NPC, but giving you all jugs all pet foods from an NPC no way. This is exactly how food works. Want some decent dd food yeah you can go grab some kabobs or something off the npc, hey its not the best but its better than nothing. You want some curry buns, sushi, etc. and none on the ah, better make friends with a cook / fisherman that can supply you with it, go without it, or find some way to get it. Simply asking SE to give you an NPC is the spoonfed / easy way out. Cooking is craft and that is based solely on CONSUMABLES and you want CONSUMABLES that a BST uses to be able to be obtained from an NPC, so basically BST, call beast, reward, or not you are basically saying lets cut cooking out of the crafts altogether. So i've comprised with you, lets give you some medicore lvl 90 jug pet you can buy from an NPC cause yes lvl 75 cap we could use those funguars taht were actually pretty good with the merits and monster gloves to raise the level cap of the jug. So really we dont even need to give you a lvl 90 jug, well give you one of the old lvl 80-85 jugs since you can bring your pet up with merits and gear, but thats probably not fair either right? cause then SE is making you have to have merits and such to raise that jug up above is static cap and you shouldnt have to have merits to do that it should just cap at your level!

Again your problem lies in your servers economy and crafter base, not the game and whats offered already. Ask SE to fix a bug or enhance the BST job with some new ability or job trait, dont ask them to give you something because the players on yoru server are not stocking your AH with what you want. Come over to my server bro i'll make any jug you bring me mats for, but of course i charge for my services as leveling my craft wasnt free or fun for me and i did it to make gil and supply myself not supply others who simply bring me mats and not have to pay a little something in return. But i guess thats not fair because it requires you to spend some time farming mats that you rather use doing mercenary work to FILL your pockets with gil. Well i rather be making jugs to sell to people like you to fill my pockets cause guess what thats one of my ways i make gil. I know its unfair that myself and other cooks control the price on jug pets and pet food so hey lets give you your Pet Shop and take away from the crafters. Sounds reasonable to me! Like i said cooking is a craft based on CONSUMABLES so lets just take it out of the game and make it all buyable from an npc! You dont take your pants to a tailor to get hemmed and walk out after he hems your pants without paying him for his service. You don't go to work on a daily basis for free, you want that pay check at the end of the week or whenever you get paid.

[Guardian]

So, you can craft the stuff you need, but you choose not to because it's not worth your time... but buying them from the AH is evil, because of "price monopoly".

Yeah, you are lazy.


Look, I don't want to butt heads with a fellow beastmaster of a matter of opinions regarding how we choose to play this game. I'll just end this back and forth with you by saying, this "pet shop" idea will never happen. Ever. Never. Jugs will still need to be crafted, you will still need to craft them, buy them... whatever. And those that craft will profit from it.

Um.. yeah. I'd just like to add the fact that I can farm up -everything- (harvesting included) for all the pets/food I use, and have it all crafted in under 3 hours, and have said items for several days, or even weeks to come. Coming from a long time RNG, NIN, and BST main, if that's too costly or time intensive for you, sorry. You picked the wrong job. Just sayin'.

[Guardian]

you cant compare Automaton attachments to pet food or jugs. They are 2 different things.
This topic is about "consumable items" these are items that fuel job abilities and must be replenished.
Spell scrolls, Automaton attachments, Blue spells. These are all things that you obtain once. They are not consumable items and therefore have no bearing on this topic.

Your entire argument against this idea can be boiled down into one statement.

"No, I am against this idea as i currently exploit the current system to make gil for myself."

And personally, i am fine with your stance against this idea. That is your 2 cents. You like lining your pockets with gil and why wouldnt you.

I just dont see that as a good reason to stand in the way of fairness and change. And that is my 2 cents. And my reason for starting this topic.

Yeah, actually the oils are consumable. I noticed you left that part out.

[Guardian]

@SNK If all you see is "bitching about the prices of jugs on the AH" then you obviously havent read my posts. Stop skim reading and skipping pages and actually get caught up on the conversation before you post. Maybe then you can at least make an attempt at accuracy when you choose to slander.

@Superchicken,
Ive said before, I brought up the whole crafting farming vs high priced AH side of this argument in order to represent all categories of people who would want a pet shop.

You keep focusing on this aspect of the discussion. I don't craft because it is A. boring B. not good use of my time.
In the time it takes me to farm mats and cook i can instead solo 4-5 zone bosses for mercenary work and make enough gil to support my pet supplies for the next few months. (@SNK if making more money than you in a shorter amount of time means im lazy then i guess so be it.)

Either way this portion of the discussion is opinion and boils down to "i dont like being forced to either do something i hate or pay all my money just to be able to use my basic class abilities in a GAME thats meant to be for recreation" Versus "I believe in crafting, i feel good being self sufficient and i also enjoy making money of people who are either too lazy to do the dirty work for themselves or people who are too rich to care."


But you still havent answered my question.

Why is it fair for some jobs to have their supplies sold from NPC stores at reasonable prices, and other jobs to be subjected to Price gouging, understocked AH's, and/or hours of busy work?

And i think this part of my argument probably has been ignored for pages simply because it IS NOT fair. Its much easier to just ignore this part and attack the opinion portion of my suggestion.

Here is another point, Pet shops alredy exist. They have just fallen behind and need to be updated. For a LONG time beastmasters had been able to rely on a cheap source of quality jug pets via Funguar familiars from khazam. I mean endgame didnt always mean 90 or even 75 for that matter. There was a time where beastmasters could get use out of NPC pet stores. Was it lazy then? Did it ruin crafting then? No. It merely gave us a reliable way to combat the understocked AH.

P.S. as for ur comment about rangers having to craft or purchase arrows from the AH, they are free to make the same arguments im making on the ranger suggestion page. Saying ranger has to put up with it too, doesnt prove anything. It just points out one more class that is being treated unfairly. Hell if they dont want to add a pet shop then remove all consumables for all jobs from all NPCs. at least then it would be fair and everyone would get screwed.

Christ, man. Do you not know what a MMO is? The whole thing is meant to be -by- the players -for- the players! If you don't want to craft/farm yourself, then don't! If we had a NPC that sold everything for every job, why the HELL would we have a GD AH?! Shesh...

[Superchicken]

Um.. yeah. I'd just like to add the fact that I can farm up -everything- (harvesting included) for all the pets/food I use, and have it all crafted in under 3 hours, and have said items for several days, or even weeks to come. Coming from a long time RNG, NIN, and BST main, if that's too costly or time intensive for you, sorry. You picked the wrong job. Just sayin'.

exactly. I level'd BST so know what else i did i leveled cooking so i dont have to rely on the ah to supply me. I knew i'd have to farm mats for my jugs and pet food so guess what, level'd thf too for farming.

This request of the pet shop has a short answer that we've all heard before.

"The game is working as intended"

[Yopop]

Ahmen to this

I farm my own pet food mats and my own jug mats and it takes me a couple hours if that, and that's if I go overboard and farm several stacks.

I keep 1 inventory open for just pet supplies ( just a tip thrown out there ) because I solo so much that I can blow through stuff quickly

leveling your cooking to 60 is very easy so anyone can do it and it can be done in no time. Almost every craft from 1-60 to skill up on is found in an NPC so the OP would love that :)

Another note i want to include from "Gotterdammerung"

you state "i can instead solo 4-5 zone bosses for mercenary work and make enough gil to support my pet supplies for the next few months".....

Umm.. Why are you complaining again?

The thing is there's true bsts and people who play bst because now a days it's a joke to level.

True bsts can usually tell you what mobs have what type of traits, what drops what types of mats and a lot but not all skill up cooking because we be darned if we are going to blow through stacks of gil for consumable items.

I'd be in billions if I bought all my food from the AH :)



Um.. yeah. I'd just like to add the fact that I can farm up -everything- (harvesting included) for all the pets/food I use, and have it all crafted in under 3 hours, and have said items for several days, or even weeks to come. Coming from a long time RNG, NIN, and BST main, if that's too costly or time intensive for you, sorry. You picked the wrong job. Just sayin'.

[Gotterdammerung]

@Yopop We are talking about this because i have the ability to assess a situation and think outside my own needs. As ive tried to explain for like 3 pages, Just because its not a problem for me doesnt mean its not a problem. Ive played beast forever im not a bandwagoneer new bst. I run my own petshell and am surrounded by beastmasters and cooks. Its good to be king. Its good to be rich. But that doesnt mean i cant think of how it would be for other people. A Job ability is the basic building blocks that define a class, I believe in a more reliable source for its consumables. Especially when those consumables are provided by npcs for other classes.

@guardian its not too costly or time intensive. It is LESS money. in ur 3 hours i can finish most if not all of a piece of someones AF+2 and have enough gil for MONTHS not WEEKS.

@chicken food is a consumable, but it is not a consumable that fuels a job ability. My OP was in regards to the unfairness that some jobs have the JA fuel sold on an NPC and BST does not have this.

[Luvbunny]

Pet shop is fantastic idea, one NPC that sells every kind of items that BST needed conveniently located in all 4 major cities.

[Superchicken]

@Yopop We are talking about this because i have the ability to assess a situation and think outside my own needs. As ive tried to explain for like 3 pages, Just because its not a problem for me doesnt mean its not a problem. Ive played beast forever im not a bandwagoneer new bst. I run my own petshell and am surrounded by beastmasters and cooks. Its good to be king. Its good to be rich. But that doesnt mean i cant think of how it would be for other people. A Job ability is the basic building blocks that define a class, I believe in a more reliable source for its consumables. Especially when those consumables are provided by npcs for other classes.

@guardian its not too costly or time intensive. It is LESS money. in ur 3 hours i can finish most if not all of a piece of someones AF+2 and have enough gil for MONTHS not WEEKS.

@chicken food is a consumable, but it is not a consumable that fuels a job ability. My OP was in regards to the unfairness that some jobs have the JA fuel sold on an NPC and BST does not have this.

So now you are changing your original statement to that you just want pet food sold from the NPC like oil is sold for pups. You need to figure out what you are asking for now. Is it jugs and food, or just pet food now?

Just cause one job can get their reward item from an NPC doesn't mean another should. And lets go even further and i'll throw this out there. AUtomaton oil +2 doesn't cure for as much as pet food eta biscuit does, so is that unfair to the PUPS?

And you saying your only talking about items that are consumed through a job ability doesn't matter at all. My argument with using food in general still holds the same point you are making.

My weaponskill on Ranger takes 3 arrows per use, my barrage takes 8 arrows per use when they all land, my shadowbind etc, my ability to use range attack as my main source of damage takes arrows everytime i use it. My ah can't keep me stocked up on my arrows i want to use, so i should ask SE to have NPC sell ruszor and antlion arrows? or should i go do somethign about it whether its farm my own mats, find crafters to take care of me, level the craft myself. Yes asking SE to make what i want come from an NPC is the easy way but not always the most plausible.

let me draw your attention to this


@Yopop We are talking about this because i have the ability to assess a situation and think outside my own needs. As ive tried to explain for like 3 pages, Just because its not a problem for me doesnt mean its not a problem. Ive played beast forever im not a bandwagoneer new bst. I run my own petshell and am surrounded by beastmasters and cooks. Its good to be king. Its good to be rich. But that doesnt mean i cant think of how it would be for other people. A Job ability is the basic building blocks that define a class, I believe in a more reliable source for its consumables. Especially when those consumables are provided by npcs for other classes.

so now you are changing your story that you are not posting this for yourself but for others now. You keep changing your story bro. Reread your original post

[Gotterdammerung]

I'm done arguing. This threads has turned childish and circular. Everythings been covered and ive replied to every counterpoint. I doubt you have anything new to add so re read if u want to find replies to the old points u keep bringing back up. I am not gonna waste my time anymore playing a childish game of "who gets the last word."

I brought this problem to the attention of the Devs, and successfully explained all my points. That's all i wanted to do and its done so im done.

[Superchicken]

I'm done arguing. This threads has turned childish and circular. Everythings been covered and ive replied to every counterpoint. I doubt you have anything new to add so re read if u want to find replies to the old points u keep bringing back up. I am not gonna waste my time anymore playing a childish game of "who gets the last word."

I brought this problem to the attention of the Devs, and successfully explained all my points. That's all i wanted to do and its done so im done.

yes its endless circle because you don't seem to realize you are asking SE to provide a means to help your situation that can already be solved by other means, and fail to see that while it may help you in what you want it to do it takes away from others in the process. Its a matter that would result in someone wins someone looses where if you leave it how it is, no one looses anything because "your problem" is already solveable with the current state of the game but you don't like those means so you are asking SE to tailor the game to help you, but you don't care about what it will do to others. Your request stems from the state of your AH on your server, but remember this is not the case on all the other servers and if SE implemented your suggestion it would be game wide not just on your server. An auction house function in MMO is run by the players. Economy in MMOs are run by the players. When you start taking aspects of the game away that involve the players the game becomes less and less of an MMO. Sure your talking about a small aspect of certain items like supplies that BST uses in conjunction with JA's, but this just opens up more and more doors for people to make more suggestions to what they call a problem that really isn't a problem at all. Yes its probably very frustrating to go to the ah to buy your supplies to see none there, but we have all experienced this. The adding of an shop or npc is not the best solution imo when the issue at hand is solveable through the game already. In essence you're asking for something to make it more convenient for you or a handful of people and not thinking about effect of this to others. It's selfish in a way because you are not wanting to take means to solve the problem you are having into your own hands in game but instead asking SE to implement to make it more convenient. I'm afraid your proposely to the dev team will most likely not go any further than that and I think others who can see the matter at stake here and what you are truely asking SE to do would agree. But if you do get your pet shop grats to you, will i loose sleep over it, no, will it affect in terms to where i can no longer play the game, no, do i think this idea is a little over the top, yes. But good luck i'm interested in seeing how it plays out and if a pet shop sees its way into the game.

Long live the beastmaster (it is one of my favorite jobs as well)

[SNK]

@SNK If all you see is "bitching about the prices of jugs on the AH" then you obviously havent read my posts. Stop skim reading and skipping pages and actually get caught up on the conversation before you post. Maybe then you can at least make an attempt at accuracy when you choose to slander.

Hadn't bothered to read here since I figured you'd gotten the point but hey let's see if I can make some more sense to you. I myself do have multiple jobs @ 90 inculding THF with Armlets & AF3+2 Shoes. I busted my ass to get those desired pieces of gear even tho I think the Armlets were way worse in terms of aquiring them. However I have and always consider BST one of the jobs I enjoy a lot. For fuck's sake I love job so much that I even own a fucking Farsha.

I leveled it to 75 waaaay before Abyessa came out so yeah I suffered thru the hardships of level 1 to 35 without leave. I suffered with finding good camps and bad camps to exp at where sometimes it was fast *hi2 you Woodlands with Red Kissers vs Colibri* vs bad camps *Garliage with an overflux of JPs farming bombs* and I've learned one thing. The only way I was going to advance at this game and this job was to support myself totally.

The AH for me was a quick refrence to some of the jug pets I liked but, I never considered it a place in where I had to get something off it in terms of that. When I knew what jug pets rocked, I made it a point to farm the shit out of the mobs which dropped the mats needed to make them and then I paid a friend who usually did it for free in cash but used my THF for stuff whenever he needed it *lol* so I always had extra stacks of jugs on hand and never worried about running out.

FFXi is a social game and sadly you don't get much of a chance to be social when you're humping the AH for jug pets/armor/w/e but, if you're that hardup for thinking you paying too much, stop your god damn bitching, unlazy yourself and contact the seller and ask them if they'd be willing to haggle.

nine times out of ten most crafters will sell for less sometimes to a person who's willing to buy direct from them because it saves them AF fees and helps them unload inventory on their characters to do more crafting. Hell with me and Bonecraft I had a solid stream of requests to make arrowheads and I sold them for less then AH price but I still made a tidy profit because people just threw gil at me because they knew I was doing them a service.

The same thing applies to the AH. It's people providing a service for you and that's it. You bitching about jug pets should be bought directly from NPCs just makes it look like you're wanting SE to hand you everything you want in a bag. You're being nothing more then a lazy player if you can't fend for yourself to make money in this game.

P.S. The Devs are probably busy dealing with the earthquake and death toll along with untold amount of property damage to give a shit about this stupid request.

[Dooom]

"It's not fair I can't buy these things from an NPC", you say. So imagine they make them all sold from an NPC; yay, you gain. But oh wait, that guy who was farming and crafting jugpets for profit to buy other stuff? You just destroyed their market. Is that fair?

Other jobs have this problem too. "They can buy their stuff from NPCs!". Which NPC sells Iron or Corsair Bullets? Or Antlion Arrows? And so on. Your base argument is flawed, and your conclusions are wrong.

[Guardian]

I think Gotter's way of thinking is that SE made FFXI entirely for him, so it needs to be easiest for him at all times. That's all I really got from his posts, since the "unfortunate others" that he keeps going on about aren't actually bitching on the forums. I'm so fkin sick of hearing people complaining about the game today. FFS, is anybody around since before ToAU? The "good" higher lv camps being in the tree and KRT? No FoV, enhanced xp, or even the ability to rest w/o losing TP?! GD STFU with this stupid ass complaining! AHH!!... Ok, done ranting. But seriously, this game is in easy mode now. If we want something revamped for BST, how about having the ability to make our pets focus on one mob, and not losing our pets when we zone/log out like every other pet job?

[Guardian]

Um, upon thinking about it, I can't remember if SMN keeps avatar out while zoning, though I think they do. Oh well. And even if they don't it's free (other than the low MP cost) to re-summon it. Later.

[kyawind]

mr thread opener~ ur intention i see that is probly a good start to help others, but what you may not realise is that when u have a npc that sells these the whole balance of crafters on the market would be pretty much killed. Even if you find the in-convience of AH out of stock or crafting it is a waste of time.

just in the crafting side "because YOU don't craft since its a waste of time" does not mean others are not doing it. Like you said since your making 2~4mil on something you do then well either buy it from the AH or buy materials off someone or something theres definitely people killing the things for whats needed to be crafted and then get it crafted. I myself have a friend whose abysea daily and smashes all types of mobs and i told their ls i'll take all their eggs/meat they get hold of matter of would you go out and sort things out and all. (hey since u make 2~4mil in a click im sure u can offer to buy it instead)

as for jugs consumption, im pretty sure alot of us here use just as much as jugs like you per week so don't complain about all of it being too hard or whatever.

synth materials are easy to come by, or if you really hate it that much go pay a crafting person a bulk of gil and just have them in a deal like "ok i want this amount of jugs per week dbox it to me" and make them do it

for other bsts hello~ this forum is so hard to get linked up and navigating around...


gosh my eng grammar is so bad even re-reading it its hard to get what im trying to say lol...

[Ezikiel]

Still hoping for bird

[Gotterdammerung]

#1 This is a suggestions style forums created by SE to give the players a direct line to the Devs. That means SE asked me to tell them ideas. Im not whining, complaining, or waah waahing. Im simply doing what SE asked and suggesting.

#2 Yes, Rng and Cor dont have a good arrow NPC, but... go to the ranger and cor section of these forums.... oh look! wat a surprise! Posts requesting ammo npcs.....Oh and look! For the same reasons (and they didnt even have to deal with crafters being rude, insulting them and/or ranting, I guess smithers and woodworkers are just cooler than cooks.)

[SNK]

#1 This is a suggestions style forums created by SE to give the players a direct line to the Devs. That means SE asked me to tell them ideas. Im not whining, complaining, or waah waahing. Im simply doing what SE asked and suggesting.

And you're doing it the wrong way. What you're asking is for SE to give you something that will take away from other players. That's it in a nutshell.



#2 Yes, Rng and Cor dont have a good arrow NPC, but... go to the ranger and cor section of these forums.... oh look! wat a surprise! Posts requesting ammo npcs.....Oh and look! For the same reasons (and they didnt even have to deal with crafters being rude, insulting them and/or ranting, I guess smithers and woodworkers are just cooler than cooks.)

See now your problem is you're generalizing crafters as all rude & insulting. Your problem is that you have options to get what you need to have jug pets cheaper then the AH but you're not following thru with what people have honestly givin you as good suggestions. I'll say it again since you can't seem to follow too much..

"FFXi is a social game and sadly you don't get much of a chance to be social when you're humping the AH for jug pets/armor/w/e but, if you're that hardup for thinking you paying too much, stop your god damn bitching, unlazy yourself and contact the seller and ask them if they'd be willing to haggle.

nine times out of ten most crafters will sell for less sometimes to a person who's willing to buy direct from them because it saves them AH fees and helps them unload inventory on their characters to do more crafting. Hell with me and Bonecraft I had a solid stream of requests to make arrowheads and I sold them for less then AH price but I still made a tidy profit because people just threw gil at me because they knew I was doing them a service.

The same thing applies to the AH. It's people providing a service for you and that's it. You bitching about jug pets should be bought directly from NPCs just makes it look like you're wanting SE to hand you everything you want in a bag. You're being nothing more then a lazy player if you can't fend for yourself to make money in this game."


Please follow the bolded part if you don't read anything else. You're a BST which in itself is a solo job that means if you're soloing, you don't have to share your drops with anyone else. I made a ton of money off farming Despot back in the day at 500,000 gil a Gem when people cared about sky but it still doesn't detract from the whole idea that you have options that do not involve dealing with the AH.

Get out there and try it instead of making selfish requests for handouts.

@Guardian, If anything I'd like to see revamped for BST is fucking being able to Charm mobs in Abyessa. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to seeing as how much of them are weaker then the good jug pets currently out.

[Guardian]

@Guardian, If anything I'd like to see revamped for BST is fucking being able to Charm mobs in Abyessa. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to seeing as how much of them are weaker then the good jug pets currently out.

Yeah I had already posted about that in a different thread, I don't really keep up with what I'm saying in which, I have a pretty short attention span for this sort of thing. xD

[taruaztec]

So cause crafting isn't fun we should have a shop that sells the stuff. Because farming mats takes time that we would rather spend doing other stuff we should have a shop for this? Because i'm a beastmaster and can't cook my own jugs or pet food we should have a shop for this? How about my hands get tired of holding a controller to play the game can we auto pilot mode please.

Seriously, I leveled my cooking to support my BST. If BST's can't find a way to get the jugs and food they need I say they aren't trying hard enough. Yes farming for mats to make your supplies sucks but guess what, that's part of the game.

In a sense your logic would apply to this situation. Hey SE, i hate running around farming my popsets to fight NM's to build my empyrean weapons, can we just have a shop so i can buy the Briarus helms, the Carabosse gems, the Glavoid shells, the Chloris buds, etc.

So as you can tell Pet Shop idea is a big X imo. Don't like the supply of BST items available on your AH on your server? find ways to combat it even if its farming your mats and having people craft for you even though you rather be doign something else. Goes back to the old saying "life's not easy"

Woot Auto run and auto follow for the win. I fine myself always trying to use auto run in every other game i play...fail.

[hakrev]

Honestly, a pet shop is not a bad idea, but it simply needs to take care of the lower lvl bst needs. The lower level pet foods are never crafted by crafters anymore, so it would effect absolutely nothing to have those at an NPC, just as having most of the low lvl regular familiars already able to be bought from an npc has never effected anything at all. What would be a problem is having the high lvl foods (lvl 60+, which are the only ones that people actually sell anymore). Every pet food pre-60 should be available at an npc, for reasonably higher prices then ah. The 99 stackable pet foods could be added, but they would need to be for around 40,000 (possibly higher, on my server regular prices are 30k~) just to make it reasonably high enough to not effect the general market. If the prices are higher then it costs to buy from ah, people at least would have a choice to get something even if the crafters were lazy and not crafting anything, which seems to be happening more and more. High lvl bsts, if they were very short on cash for whatever reason (it happens to all of us at one time or another) and they had an event to go to, could simply go to the shop and purchase a few lower lvls foods. While they would naturally have gimp food and would run through more pets, they could still at least participate.

A pre-60 bst is most likely not concentrating on crafting (and once we hit 99, pre-70 bst food/jugs will be equally gimp), as they are simply charming monsters anyways and there is no need to have pet food/jugs, so having a pet shop to fulfill the food/jug pet need of lower lvls would effect nothing as noone even uses those jugs anyways, maybe some bsts would actually use some of them that way and if you wanted to help a lower player with quests in a lower zone you could quickly grab a cheap jug and a few lower lvl pet foods and head on out and help them quickly. Now couriercarrie for example would not be on the list of buyable jugs simply because of it's massive level range, but some of the jugs that only last like 10 lvls and aren't uber powerful would be perfectly fine to be added to a shop. The Shop location would need to be placed in an outlands area such as rabao/norg/khazam/nashmau or something like that, to simply make it less convenient and less likely to interfere with the general market. Although, it would make more sense to be in Upper Jeuno near Brutus.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I'd love a shop that sold all the jugpets you could want...

I think a shop that sold the materials to make jugpets would be a better idea tho.. so it doesn't mess with crafters...

[Glamdring]

I just had a good guy help me with Tigerfangs to make my Valroedge frame as they are never on the AH. I farmed the materials and crystal and he synthed (without HQ... whew) and offerred to do it for free. I paid the current 30k AH price anyway. I was fine with paying the AH price, there just weren't any. I do think the player is entitled to compensation for their crafting.


By that token, I have multiple LS members who cook jugs/food for me (my craft is leather tyvm or I'd do it myself) for no cost so I'll be at full strength when I go on LS events... or maybe because they're just cool like that. I repay (without being asked) by giving any mats I receive for their crafts free. Networking can go a long way, the only prob is when the crafter you know is occupied and you need whatever NOW.

[Tealsic]

Mehhhhhhh should just have an npc that sells ingrediants. Nuff said. Like chigoes for yulys.................... freakin those ratty lookin fellas slave drive karakul all over nashmau. Why cant they sell the chigoes off of them? And chigoes drop out of boxes now so why are the jugs still so expensive? The crafter shouldnt be "Up in Arms" about thisthread at all. Your first thought was similar to gas prices here in the US. You need it. Your goin to buy it. We tell you what your goin to pay because we supply it. So when we try to find a way to get around it you attack us? Sorry communism doesnt exist in FFXI land. and for you gotter........... brilliant idea.

[Karbuncle]

Admittedly i don't know if its been suggest, but I think a way to purchase Pet Food would be far better :|, Its not even a matter of price at some levels its a matter of Stock. Especially early level Pet food. (can't tell if the OP suggested this >.> didn't read all the thread cause it just looks like crafters trying to angrily defend their "profit" (A.k.a extortion) of certain items)

Pet Food Alpha: 200gil/each (2,400 Stack. AH Price 2000)
Pet Food Beta: 400gil/each (4,800 stack. AH price 4000)
Pet Food Gama: 600gil/each (7,200 stack, AH price 10,000)
Pet Food Delta: 800gil/each (9,600 stack, AH Price 3k)
Pet Food Epsilon: 1000/each (12k stack, AH price 10,000)
Pet Food Zeta: 1200/each (14,400 /stack, AH price 12,000)
Pet Food Eta: 2500/each (30,000/stack, AH price 40,000)

This seems like reasonable prices. Most are more expensive than AH, Which as such would simply create an NPC alternative when AH is out of Stock. This is apparent for low-level Biscuits which are rarely in stock these days.

Where as it imposes a cap on Some higher level Pet food (lets say Eta). Right now Eta prices are insane on Some servers. Each stack costs roughly ~13k to make depending on your server, thats NQ'ing all synths. and they sell as high as 70k/stack (Fenrir price), which is somewhere in the ballpark of 500% Profit for NQ synths. Limiting that to 300% Profit wouldn't crash the economy.

as far as Jugs, I don't really care one way or the other if a Pet-Shop for Jugs were added, but it would be nice for Pet food, Cause unlike a lot of Jugs, Low-level pet food is rarely in stock, Which hurts low-level BSTs.

Edit: and just to touch on the subject i skimmed over. Just because You're the only source of an item, and can sell it for whatever you want, Doesn't mean its any less F*cked up, Even hiding behind supply/demand excuse. When a Craft is 300%+ more profit on the NQ, Theres no reason the consumer shouldn't complain. So Don't act like you're all in the right. You are extorting these people because they need to buy these things to be good at their job. And you're using the fact you're the only supply of said item to charge insane prices. This isn't true for everything, But its apparent for some BST items.

(Note: I'm not saying the above applies to everyone in this thread, I just skimmed over a few posts with that feeling to it Thank you!)

[Flunklesnarkin]

Sounds reasonable... I'm all for having an npc option to buy jugpets and pet food

I'd just hope crafting would remain the preferred source of jugpets to keep the economy alive... sort of ;o

[Karbuncle]

Sounds reasonable... I'm all for having an npc option to buy jugpets and pet food

I'd just hope crafting would remain the preferred source of jugpets to keep the economy alive... sort of ;o

That Seems like the best Solution.

A "Pet Shop" if added, should be "Well theres none in stock on the AH, I'll go to the Pet Shop". And prices should reflect that. Being slightly more expensive then they are on AH.

[Alukat]

You call me lazy because you don't know me. You might be able to farm and cook the pet supplies you need to live at your pace, but i blow through an insane amount of supplies a week. I have cooking leveled but if i stopped to craft what i needed id be crafting for a few days, and thats time i dont have. This thread isnt even about that. Its about bst getting what everyone else has. Angon NPC sells it. Automaton oils NPC sells it, Corsair cards NPC sells it, Universal tools NPC sells it. I still maintain that a NPC with endgame appropriate Cookies and jugs is both fair and needed. It helps to regulate crafting prices and ensures that a bstmaster always has the tools needed to actually play the job.

give bst dual-wield like everony else has :p

Edit:
but a pet shop would suck, i leveled cooking to be able to craft my own pets and to sell stuff. making everything possible to be purchased on npc would just screw the economy.

every gil spend on a npc is lost gil for market.

example:

a bst spends gil for food/pets > the cook gets money, he spends its for shihei or whatever > the woodworker gets money > he spends it for pop items or ingredients droped by NMs or whatever > the person who's killing them all time gets money, this could be u!

point is, a pet shop could just hurt yourself.

[Karbuncle]

give bst dual-wield like everony else has :p

Edit:
but a pet shop would suck, i leveled cooking to be able to craft my own pets and to sell stuff. making everything possible to be purchased on npc would just screw the economy.

every gil spend on a npc is lost gil for market.

example:

a bst spends gil for food/pets > the cook gets money, he spends its for shihei or whatever > the woodworker gets money > he spends it for pop items or ingredients droped by NMs or whatever > the person who's killing them all time gets money, this could be u!

point is, a pet shop could just hurt yourself.

Not if the prices at the pet shop were more expensive by ~2/3k than at the Auction house. Then it would just be used as a "last rest" alternative if the Auction House happens to be out of stock..

Really, a Pet shop should sell all Jugs/Pet Food up until level ~50. Cause the Jugs/Food at those levels are quite rare, like a lot of lowbie gear.

That way 51+ Jugs/Pet Food will remain what it is (Good profit for Crafters), while the lowbie jug/food Thats rarely made/profitable can be purchased by new players easier, especially when stock is low/non-existent.

[Alukat]

but i guess the main issue causing the lacks of items in AH is the new system.
most items are r/e and droped by NMs/quest.
i remember when there was abjuration + cursed item (500k-10M) there was a reason to farm and craft.

[Karbuncle]

Wrong thread or >.>?

[Gotterdammerung]

except that the AH fluctuates. Considering the current prices are all 300%-700% profit mark ups, It may not be appropriate to set the NPC shop prices based on the current market.

But any NPC shop, even a expensive one, is an improvement and would eliminate at least 1 of the problems.

[Alukat]

i mainly crafted pet items & food (cooking yeah) when there are things i need to buy, but since all items are r/e and drop there i stoped it and that's why there is lower stock on in ah and higher price on our server (bahamut).
before abyssea i crafted like 20-30 hours per week. now i craft 1 hour in 1 month.
so SE should fix the problem itself instead the symptoms ^^
this is a game (in extend of course a world) and all variables work together, so that has something to do with the pet item ah stock/price ;)

[Karbuncle]

Oh, I was confused cause nothing required to craft Jugs or Pet food is R/EX. I would think that would encourage more crafting of the items that actually sell and aren't R/EX, not decourage the entire system.

Though, This is now Addressing Gotter, Check my Prices Up above in my first post, Thats the most likely pricing for something like this. Cheap and scales up on level. Most of them are only ~slightly more expensive than their AH alternatives.

You don't want to completely screw crafters, But at the same time yes i can agree that certain items are nothing short of Extortion based on the fact crafters know they're the only source of said items and can get away with charging about whatever they want. Something needs to address this, But i can't think of a solution that wouldn't completely bone another aspect of crafting.

I know crafters basically have it hard now, that "Consumables" are really the only things worth a profit these days for a lot of crafters, and taking that away would probably kill a lot of the system for BST goods. but crafters also need to realize 70k for a Stack of Eta biscuits that cost at best 12k to make is ridiculous, and there is a small chance if enough BSTs complain about this, Pet food could end up like automaton oil, and bam, now the profit is completely gone.

Crafters need to set up reasonable prices, and Consumers need to realize that out-dating Crafting further isn't entirely the solution.

NPC alternatives should be slightly more expensive than AH, i know theres no way to program this real-time, but most prices (Except ETA) Are pretty stable. the list like the one i posted above would be a good start.

[Alukat]

if u farm the buffalo meat u would be at 50k/hour top, if u would sell the eta's for 30k per stack. why bother with a 50k/hour craft when there are crafts for much more per hour?

Edit: yuly 150k/hour with farming + craft, if it is a good crafter ^^
Edit2: shell bug sold by npc would drop the price since u don't need to bother to farm them anymore.

[Gotterdammerung]

probably the easiest solution is for the NPc store to just sell materials for crafters. Thats the only way to get an honest regulation. Nursery nazuna is for the most part this way. All its ingredients can be purchased as long as the npc's area is not beastman controled and its price has remained incredibly steady and fair. Roughly 400 gil for the beaugreens 70 gil for the turnip 380ish for the Napa 167 gil for the water crystals. A total cost of roughly 1100 gil per stack to make. Plenty in stock 4k ish a stack.

[Karbuncle]

probably the easiest solution is for the NPc store to just sell materials for crafters. Thats the only way to get an honest regulation. Nursery nazuna is for the most part this way. All its ingredients can be purchased as long as the npc's area is not beastman controled and its price has remained incredibly steady and fair. Roughly 400 gil for the beaugreens 70 gil for the turnip 380ish for the Napa 167 gil for the water crystals. A total cost of roughly 1100 gil per stack to make. Plenty in stock 4k ish a stack.

Wouldn't be a bad idea.

Though i Still think there should be a shop that sells Low-Level (Pre-50) Pet Food/Jugs at a reasonable price. Cause even with a supply from NPC of Materials, They still wouldn't show up on AH as much me thinks.

Just not a big "low Level" Market.

[Alukat]

yep, atm its 12 lesser chigoe (max) per hour farmed that are 6 crafts = would be 3 stacks yulys
but u have to bother another hour with farming shell bugs + crafting.
making shell bugs purchaseable might drop the price to <75k
making lesser chigoe purchaseable (depending on price) would drop the price too.

[Gotterdammerung]

I suppose.

I know some people like the whole low lvl jug pet usage thing. I personally just used the environment and charm. Its stronger and free, but i can see sumone wanting less headache. It is easier to just call a expendable hero and space out on some FoV.

P.S. I dont really care wat they do to pet food eta, its beyond hope of saving. Its got so many things going against it. #1 u cant even use it properly with ducal because even at like 1% life it will take your pet over 50% wich exposes it to risk when it breaks the pdt/mdt.
#2 the only time the extra healing would be needed is if you somehow werent making it to ur next reward timer, and personally for me that never happens. im actually usually waiting a good 3-5 minutes past the timer b4 needing to use reward again on a harder fight.
#3 the increase to healing does not justify the price. i.e. 10 zetas would heal the same as 7 etas roughly. 10 zetas usually costs you 150k whereas 7 eta's would cost you 210k on my server and on other servers even more. Your actually paying an extra 60k a stack just to see the 2400 number insted of the 1800 number but getting less benefit. The price of eta would have to fall to around 20k a stack just to be even with zeta on price/healing. And thats also comparing current zeta prices wich are marked way the hell up do to the combination of crafting being a wounded animal and beastmaster being bandwagon. Zeta was stuck steady at 5k a stack for the majority of this games lifespan.

[Karbuncle]

The days of Abyssea are numbered you know, Not caring about something because it stops you from abusing 100%PDT in abyssea is a bad idea.

Cause as of right now, It looks like 95~99 Isn't going to be in Abyssea, While Pet Food Zeta will still be good Inside, A lot of our content is going to be outside from this point on, so Pet Food Eta needs to go down in price :\

[Gotterdammerung]

#1 was refering to abyssea

reason #2 was not refering to abyssea. (inside abyssea u use reward like maybe once every 10 minutes.) If you would like an example of an outside abyssea fight in wich reason #2 applies, KSNM 99 "early bird" Pet tanking does not need eta biscuits. Reward is down for several minutes b4 u need to use a zeta biscuit again. #2 applies to all other outside abyssea fights i do, this is just 1 example.

reason #3 is applicable everywhere.


Basically, The extra healing isnt needed.
Inside abyssea the extra healing is detrimental.
Combined with the lack of cost effeciency, Eta biscuits are useless and wasteful everywhere.

[Karbuncle]

Yes. And i was only addressing Point 1.

Point 2/3 I have no opinion on.

[Gotterdammerung]

The days of Abyssea are numbered you know

Furthermore , i dont believe abyssea will ever be dead. People regularly do dynamis,sky,sea,limbus, hell even nyzul isle. And these places don't turn you into superman. They also dont have anywhere near the same amount of content to explore. Also abyssea provides the most effecient way to exp currently.

I think People will be poking around in abyssea until the game ends.

[Bubeeky]

I don't know about your servers, but as a crafter on my server I can tell you that there's very little profits to be had in crafting jugs....even the yuly crafts are actually a loss unless you spend hours and hours farming the little chigoe things, so to me, it's incredibly unfair to say that the crafters are gouging when in actuality we're just barely making enough to keep us crafting.

[Karbuncle]

Furthermore , i dont believe abyssea will ever be dead. People regularly do dynamis,sky,sea,limbus, hell even nyzul isle. And these places don't turn you into superman. They also dont have anywhere near the same amount of content to explore. Also abyssea provides the most effecient way to exp currently.

I think People will be poking around in abyssea until the game ends.

Probably, But like Dynamis, Sky, Sea, Limbus, Etc, It won't be useful for anything other than a fun Side activity (Well, At 90 all of those gears from said era are outdated sans maybe 1-2 pieces).

I was simply pointing out Eta will likely become more useful as the game progresses into 99, So you should be worried/care about if its price drops/Goes up/etc.

I mean, We don't go "I hate Pet Food Zeta cause I can't use it in BCNM40..." or "Relic Weapons suck cause i can't use them in Garrison..."

[Gotterdammerung]

Let me break that down for ya Bubeeky.

Crafting is dying because of Emp armor and magian trials and powning monster drop gear. This mainly leaves consumable items as a life raft for crafters. Crafters jack up the prices on consumables to try to reclaim some of the comfort of their glory days. At this point a new tier of player jumps in the mix. The farmers. These are the guys who keep lizard eggs stocked on the AH and various things like that. When they see the new prices of the finished product, they in turn raise the prices of the materials in an attempt to also claim some of the new profit from the initial price gouge. In the end, when everything balances out, the cooks arent making more than they orignally were, the farmers are making more, and the consumer is being severly beaten.

It is not unfair for the consumer to blame the crafters for the gouge because it was initially the crafters who raised the prices. And it is also reasonable for the consumer to feel vindicated to learn the cook is not making good money.

In the old days, crafters avoided this pitfall by having a better understanding of there role and responsibility in the community. But i guess they can hardly be blamed. After all it was SE who pulled the rug out from under them. Things wouldn't be so bad if crafting wasn't slowly being made obsolete.

[Gotterdammerung]

Probably, But like Dynamis, Sky, Sea, Limbus, Etc, It won't be useful for anything other than a fun Side activity (Well, At 90 all of those gears from said era are outdated sans maybe 1-2 pieces).

I was simply pointing out Eta will likely become more useful as the game progresses into 99, So you should be worried/care about if its price drops/Goes up/etc.

I mean, We don't go "I hate Pet Food Zeta cause I can't use it in BCNM40..." or "Relic Weapons suck cause i can't use them in Garrison..."

I meant that i had given up on the price ever dropping low enough to make eta worthwhile. And by making this thread and pointing out how the price makes it useless, in a way i am contributing to the possibility of it being fixed one day.

[Karbuncle]

I meant that i had given up on the price ever dropping low enough to make eta worthwhile. And by making this thread and pointing out how the price makes it useless, in a way i am contributing to the possibility of it being fixed one day.

The idea to sell the Mats at an NPC was pretty good.

You can get Buffalo meat at NPC but the way too is ridiculous.

[Bubeeky]

Actually, it's not reasonable for either of those assumptions to be made. The crafters don't gouge people on prices, that's our way of making money. The cooks aren't making a profit at all these days, even with the jacked up prices, so sooner or later, the so called vindicated consumer won't have any consumables on the ah to consume. If you really must blame someone, blame those that farm and charge the crafters exorbant amounts of gil for the ingredients.

[Gotterdammerung]

Basically just ignored the explanation.

Farmers use 4 things to judge the price of their work.

1. the difficulty it took to collect the material.
2. The cost of the final crafted product the material is used to create in comparison with the cost of the other materials.
3. The rate at wich the material is sold.
4. and the current stock of said material.

The price of the material is largely based on the conduct of the crafters.

[Bubeeky]

right, but you have ignored the fact that we don't gouge people for prices...I for one worked hard for many years to get my craft to where it is...the exchange for that is that we get gouged on the price for ingredients then blamed by unthankful customers for price gouging...it's crafting/in game business, not a charity service. My cooking key items and equipment and furniture were an investment, not free.

[Karbuncle]

Actually, it's not reasonable for either of those assumptions to be made. The crafters don't gouge people on prices, that's our way of making money. The cooks aren't making a profit at all these days, even with the jacked up prices, so sooner or later, the so called vindicated consumer won't have any consumables on the ah to consume. If you really must blame someone, blame those that farm and charge the crafters exorbant amounts of gil for the ingredients.

Strictly speaking on Pet Food/Jugs, If you can't make a profit off something that has nearly ~300%/700% profit Margin based on NQ Values (Pet food Eta), its not the Consumers fault for being upset. Its absurd. You guys can charge this much because you're the only source.

I'm sorry I'm not trying to stomp on your thing here, but when it comes to Items like Pet Food Eta, Where the profit margin is in 300% or higher with just NQ's, that is Price gouging. I understand to reason why you need to make prices to where you can profit reasonably, But theres Reasonable Profit, and UNreasonable gouging.

I'm not saying all servers cross the line, or that even you do it. But at the very least on asura there is so price gouging going on. And they get away with it because they're the only source, and we're forced to purchase it if we dont wanna be gimp.

[Gotterdammerung]

The blame lies in the incentive. A farmer will never arbitrarily raise the price of his materials. If he raises the price for no reason, the crafter will not make a profit on the synth and therefore will not purchase the material. A farmer initiating the Raise of material prices will jeapordize his market and therefore his profit. However, If the crafter raises the cost of the final product, there is more profit available for the farmer and he will adjust his price.

Ultimately, The crafters gouged the prices first. If you arent making tons of money now, its because the suppliers have adjusted there prices. Example: After the dipper prices were set initially, the price of a stack of chigoes doubled. This is because the cooks initially set there profit to high and the farmers decided they wanted a larger cut and adjusted the price of the materials. You are welcome to continue to raise the price if u want, but the supplier will continually adjust to take his share. And eventually the consumer will get fed up with it all and decide the price isnt worth it.

[Bubeeky]

lol I wish I was on your servers, where apparantly cooking is a profitable venture....it's barely worth cooking on mine...right from the start the price on a stack of chigoes cost more than a stack of yuly jugs...that's the way all the jugs have been on my server, same with the pet foods...they literally have never been worth my time, even when I farmed up the ingredients for the lower level jugs, they still weren't worth making.

I still maintain that the crafters (on my server) haven't done anything to the price nearly as bad as what you're making it out to be. Consider the fact that there is no blame to be had, but that the whole system isn't working anymore and ask yourself what you can do to fix it...without advocating the idea that would take crafters out of the picture completely.

[Karbuncle]

lol I wish I was on your servers, where apparantly cooking is a profitable venture....it's barely worth cooking on mine...right from the start the price on a stack of chigoes cost more than a stack of yuly jugs...that's the way all the jugs have been on my server, same with the pet foods...they literally have never been worth my time, even when I farmed up the ingredients for the lower level jugs, they still weren't worth making.

I still maintain that the crafters (on my server) haven't done anything to the price nearly as bad as what you're making it out to be. Consider the fact that there is no blame to be had, but that the whole system isn't working anymore and ask yourself what you can do to fix it...without advocating the idea that would take crafters out of the picture completely.

Glad you brought up Yuly, On my server its like this.

Chigoe 200k/stack
Shell bug 10/stack.

assuming 1 stack of each, you'll only use 6 shell bugs, So shell bugs say 5k. So as a total its 205k Per 6 Synths. The Yield is

Cooking 45 (Teir 3 Possible)
Yield: Wool Grease x4
HQ 1: Wool Grease x6
HQ 2: Wool Grease x8
HQ 3: Wool Grease x10

So NQ'ing all 6, You make 2 Stacks. 1 stack = 95k, so 190k for 2, you lose 15k NQ'ing every single synth, This is Assuming you don't use Synergy. If you use Synergy you get Profit, Synergy recipe Yields 6 per, not 4. so you get 36 per, another entire stack per 6 synth, Meaning you make 285k Per 205k spent. NQ'ING IT ALL.

With HQ's, Your profit Skyrockets. Pet Food Eta is even worse, Zeta is just Inching on this kind of thing too.

Asura is robbery. Crafters here are greedy price gougers :|, Its the reason i don't play BST as much. Its just to expensive.

[Gotterdammerung]

u do realize comparing the cost of 1 stack of lesser chigoes to 1 stack of wool grease is an invalid comparison?

1 stack of lesser chigoes will make 3 full stacks of wool grease and thats with all NQ's. Chigoes origanally cost around 40-50k a stack and were priced at thr 40-60k range a stack. This meant that for the cost of 40-50k a cook could make around 100k profit. Thats a very good deal for a cook. The people farming the chigoes noticed how good a deal this was and said "hey i want outrageous profit too!." So they raised the price of lesser chigoes a bit. And the cooks were all addicted to making 100k in a few minutes so they raised the price again. Now on my server, Chigoes cost 140k a stack and the dippers are at 120k a stack. And ur telling me that a cook isnt really making profit? and its not their fault?

How am i supposed to feel about this as a consumer? How would you feel if someone tried to charge you 40 dollars for a snickers bar?

[Yopop]

You guys are summing up why BST should have their own crafting mule for cooking. If you are serious about the job then you should be able to supply your own tools and food.

I'm a BST and I cook. I did it because only a moron would pay someone else gil for supplies they burn through on a daily basis.

Trust me when I say crafters are far from greedy price gougers, I rarely even find it worth putting things on AH to sell when it comes to bst as the profit is so low.

This comes from a Greey Price Gouging BST Crafter that was on Asura


----

Once a week I pick a day and farm for as much time as I can. I farm every item that I need except what can be bought from NPCs.

If you do not want the products the crafters make. then make them yourself. Look into the amount of time it takes us to farm our ingredients and I'm sure you tone will change when you are the one crafting your stuff.

[Karbuncle]

u do realize comparing the cost of 1 stack of lesser chigoes to 1 stack of wool grease is an invalid comparison?

1 stack of lesser chigoes will make 3 full stacks of wool grease and thats with all NQ's. Chigoes origanally cost around 40-50k a stack and were priced at thr 40-60k range a stack. This meant that for the cost of 40-50k a cook could make around 100k profit. Thats a very good deal for a cook. The people farming the chigoes noticed how good a deal this was and said "hey i want outrageous profit too!." So they raised the price of lesser chigoes a bit. And the cooks were all addicted to making 100k in a few minutes so they raised the price again. Now on my server, Chigoes cost 140k a stack and the dippers are at 120k a stack. And ur telling me that a cook isnt really making profit? and its not their fault?

How am i supposed to feel about this as a consumer? How would you feel if someone tried to charge you 40 dollars for a snickers bar?

Are you talking to me? Or the other guy.

Cause if its me, You do realize i take into account multiple Times 1 Stack of Chigoe = 6 Synths right >.>?

I even went and Rechecked my math. 1 Stack of Chigoe = Good for 6 Synths. 1 stack = 200k.

6 Synths at 4 per synth NQ is 2 stacks of Jugs. Which are worth 190k

So for every 6 Synths (1 Stack worth of Lesser Chigoe), Which is 200k, you make 190k on NQ.

I rechecked my math. I said Using Cooking it makes 2 stacks per 6 Synths (1 Stack of Chigoe), Cooking NQ is 4 Jugs, not 6, Synergy NQ is 6.

So if they used Cooking not Synergy, they make 2 Stacks per 1 Stack of Chigoe without Breaks.

My math is right, I even included "Synergy" profit in there too.


You guys are summing up why BST should have their own crafting mule for cooking. If you are serious about the job then you should be able to supply your own tools and food.

I'm a BST and I cook. I did it because only a moron would pay someone else gil for supplies they burn through on a daily basis.

Trust me when I say crafters are far from greedy price gougers, I rarely even find it worth putting things on AH to sell when it comes to bst as the profit is so low.

This comes from a Greey Price Gouging BST Crafter that was on Asura


----

Once a week I pick a day and farm for as much time as I can. I farm every item that I need except what can be bought from NPCs.

If you do not want the products the crafters make. then make them yourself. Look into the amount of time it takes us to farm our ingredients and I'm sure you tone will change when you are the one crafting your stuff.



True, its just that these BST have to have your product to do their job properly, and most of them feel the time/cost to level a craft is greater than the inconvenience of over-paying for something.

Plus the price/effort/time It takes to level both Cooking and Synergy (Synergy is the smarter way to craft A lot of Jugs...)

I'm not saying I personally wouldn't find it worth it, But i already have WoodWorking ~73 because its what i chose to level way back in the day. I could take up Cooking, I hear its quite nice.

But then again my GF has Cooking @ 95 already...

[Gotterdammerung]

i was talking to him and i was using synergy. Why wouldnt u use synergy on a high cost synth like this? guaranteed 1 extra stack and no breaks. Maybe this guys not making any profit because hes NOT using synergy. Hey guy. Use synergy kay.

[Bubeeky]

on my server, chigoes are 200k a stack and wool grease is 120k a stack...who's getting gouged there?

the easiest fix imo would be to simply make the chigoes more readily accessable...they are really difficult to get as it stands now, which is partially what's driving up the price

btw, I don't use synergy...that's a whole different subject though lol

[Karbuncle]

on my server, chigoes are 200k a stack and wool grease is 120k a stack...who's getting gouged there?

1 Stack of Chigoes makes 3 Stacks of Wool Grease when Using Synergy, Without HQ's involved.

So you spend 200k, and make 360k. You make almost 200% profit. So its still the Consumer getting screwed :| Hard. A Craft that has almost 200% profit margin on NQ alone with 0 Chance of Breaking.

F*CK its making me want to level Cooking, I could be a 100millionarre over night.

[Bubeeky]

and one more thing...I don't make these for profit...I make them for free for friends when they bring me ingredients....I don't gouge anyone, I do what I can to help alleviate the pressure for people needing things like this when I can

[Bubeeky]

based on the numbers on my server, I'd make 38k...that's hardly a gouging 200% profit...that's not even enough to buy a stack of dipper yuly, if I had bst leveled

[Karbuncle]

based on the numbers on my server, I'd make 38k...that's hardly a gouging 200% profit...that's not even enough to buy a stack of dipper yuly, if I had bst leveled

We still talking about DipperYuly?

you say "Chigoe are 200k/stack" ... "Yulies are 120k/stack". Using Synergy (There is no reason you shouldn't), Every 6 Synths (1 stack of Chigoe) you make 3 Stacks of Yuly's, which at 120kx3 is 360k

So you spend 200k, and make 360k if you sell them all, This is using Synergy, and NQ'ing them all.

If you use Cooking (which you really shouldn't) You are indeed only making 38k Profit. (40k not counting Shell Bug prices)

Take the time to level Synergy, It'll massively boost your profit if you do so synth for Profit.

[Bubeeky]

I refuse to level synergy...it's a slap in the face to crafters like myself that spend a lot of time and effort to get to where we are...I did the craft leveling thing with cooking....it's not gonna happen with synergy.

[Gotterdammerung]

well the prices of the materials are being set based on the profit potential of a synergy craft. Its ur own fault if u dont use it. And if u notice the profit margin remained relativly constant the whole time. From 40k chigoes and 50k dippers to 200k chigoes and 120k dippers ur still making around the same gil. Its the consumers getting bent over.

[Bubeeky]

no, it's the crafters getting bent over...synergy is what should be removed from the game....it ruined crafting (as other threads have said)

[Karbuncle]

I actually LIKE synergy. No Materials Lost on Failed attempts, SUPER-Easy to level up, I can do it with my GF...

But, I can understand the point of view of someone who has a 100 craft being angry at it i guess? my GF has 95 Cooking and she still using Synergy 99% of her BST needs. Usually help her my Synergy is higher.

I can't entirely comment on it though, As my Woodworking is only ~73, So i dont have a 100 Craft.

[Gotterdammerung]

synergists are crafters.

Did you mean crafters who do not synergize.

I dont see how synergy ruined crafting anyway. It is basically the same as crafting. And even uses crafting. And protects u from breaks and has higher returns. And is easy to lvl. Sounds like all win.

If your answer is : i dont like it.
Then the usual response from crafters when a noncrafter says "i dont like crafting" is
"Tough titties eediot, i guess i take ur money cuz u lazy deerrrp."

so by the same logic if u dont like synergy and thats ur reason for not doing it,
well then u must be a lazy eediot who doesnt like money.

[Bubeeky]

it's not that I don't like doing it, it's that I spent a great deal of time and effort to get my craft to 100, including losing friends that spent that same time actually leveling, then moving on to bigger and better things, leaving me behind...the trade off was supposed to be that I was investing in something that would pay off in the long run, but now they add synergy...something that you don't even need a traditional craft for, but you can make everything the traditional crafts can, easier and faster?

That has single handedly killed crafting for me....SE just took and slapped me right upside the head when they gave ppl the ability to bypass the whole investment part of the crafting process. I cannot and will not respect anyone that just uses synergy to get what they want, because it is a lame way for people to bypass the hardship of actually leveling a craft.

Synergists are not crafters...they are synergists. Only those with an actual craft leveled are crafters.

[Gotterdammerung]

I was under the impression U still needed the original craft to support the synergy.

[Karbuncle]

Thats your Opinion.

And We can't Bypass Shit, Almost every worthwhile Synth in the game Requires High Level of a Certain craft. Now instead of finding a Crafter To BLOW UP your item, Critical Fail, Lose everything, you find a crafter, Or level it yourself, Go Do Synergy, Can't Critical-BOOM, Get your item, and move on.

Its really no Different. Those of us Without Crafting still have to find a Crafter like it was in the old day, and those with Crafting can still reap the benefits.

I don't know what we're Bypassing. Those people without Skill in Crafting do the same thing they did before "XXX Crat, Can i have it? Reward /tell"


I was under the impression U still needed the original craft to support the synergy.

You do. For 99% of Synergy Recipes, You need a Certain Craft past a Certain Point. Some Require Multiple Crafts.

[Bubeeky]

But those crafts just need to be in the party, the synergist themselves don't actually need to level the craft

When ppl would ask for a crafter, they reward 'em and are using the skill that the crafter worked hard for...that we broke materials and friendships and took the time to invest in. Synergists didn't have to deal with breakage or time invested over the course of years...just a couple months and bam, you can make what it took me years to get to make.

btw...whenever I'm asked to be in the pt for a synergist, I don't actually get anything for it, you don't get rewarded for just being in a pt.

[Karbuncle]

But those crafts just need to be in the party, the synergist themselves don't actually need to level the craft

When ppl would ask for a crafter, they reward 'em and are using the skill that the crafter worked hard for...that we broke materials and friendships and took the time to invest in. Synergists didn't have to deal with breakage or time invested over the course of years...just a couple months and bam, you can make what it took me years to get to make.

btw...whenever I'm asked to be in the pt for a synergist, I don't actually get anything for it, you don't get rewarded for just being in a pt.

I always reward Crafters for their time. Thats not even Synergy's Fault, Thats the fault of inconsiderate players.

[Bubeeky]

true...as long as the internet is around, there will be no shortage of those lol

[Alukat]

u do realize comparing the cost of 1 stack of lesser chigoes to 1 stack of wool grease is an invalid comparison?

1 stack of lesser chigoes will make 3 full stacks of wool grease and thats with all NQ's. Chigoes origanally cost around 40-50k a stack and were priced at thr 40-60k range a stack. This meant that for the cost of 40-50k a cook could make around 100k profit. Thats a very good deal for a cook. The people farming the chigoes noticed how good a deal this was and said "hey i want outrageous profit too!." So they raised the price of lesser chigoes a bit. And the cooks were all addicted to making 100k in a few minutes so they raised the price again. Now on my server, Chigoes cost 140k a stack and the dippers are at 120k a stack. And ur telling me that a cook isnt really making profit? and its not their fault?

How am i supposed to feel about this as a consumer? How would you feel if someone tried to charge you 40 dollars for a snickers bar?

u always forget THAT THE COOK HAS TO SPEND TIME TO FARM THE SHELLBUGS.
they aren't avaible at npcs.
most crafters calculate in gil/hour and not in gil/craft, well at least i do it this way.

edit: for synergy u have to add fewell costs, or time/money to gather the mats,synth them (if none are at ah)

[Gotterdammerung]

Oh... u mean the things that drop like candy from all the low lvl quadav in beadeux. You know the ones that die in one or two hits. Yeh your right. I forgot the most important part.....

[Alukat]

Oh... u mean the things that drop like candy from all the low lvl quadav in beadeux. You know the ones that die in one or two hits. Yeh your right. I forgot the most important part.....

the walk there takes time.... so now spend there like 45 minutes to farm a stack or 2, walking / farming time included.th5
almost 1 hour wasted for a simple mat.......

[Gotterdammerung]

u can outpost warp straight to pashow. And then flee to the dungeon lickity split. The mobs u want to fight are right there at the beginning. They link and they are weak as babies. Pull them all together and Aeolian edge. Theres about 50 of them. You should have a stack in 1 maybe 2 pulls.

[Alukat]

oh u already did?
well then craft your own yulys or why do u want to farm them?

Edit: it doesn't take time to gather 50 mobs?
Edit: i checked wiki, 24 spawns, spreaded in beadaux, 10 min repop time , 23% drop rate

[Gotterdammerung]

well maybe you should learn how to use wiki then.

24 Brass, 31 copper and 30 bronze spawns.

yes it takes time to gather them, but not the 45 minutes u were suggesting.

[Alukat]

oh u used wiki? well i checked the droprate on copper (0/184) and bronze (0/39) brass quadav (28/122) that are wiki numbers which u can see when u use "edit page".

and cg your wiki use skill raises 0,1 point

[ShadowHeart]

first the idea toe be able to have a custom pet is brilliant :) evenbetter if you could raise it like a chocobo and call it and recharge it similar to a chocobo whistle :)

secondly i agree and think there should be a central pet store... I am not lazy and have high crafting on myself and mules but sometimes you just do not have the time and would just like to play and have fun instead of farming and crafting on your day off because in our server sometimes its just too much...
all the way out to farm ziz meat for hours and hours for horibble drop rates... or running around avoiding chigoes fighting against botters which have been reported many times watching them tele from harvest spot to harvest spot getting a couple chigoes an hour if ur lucky a stack are over 100k a pop on my server due to botters / rmt so a central store is a good idea some of the materials are a pain to farm and just don't have hours and hours to do so... just like before they changed the recipe for eta biscuits... he was giving an opinion so jumping all over him for an idea and continuing to argue is pointless some of us agree with his ideas others don't no point trolling agree to disagree or agree as some do

[Karbuncle]

first the idea toe be able to have a custom pet is brilliant :) evenbetter if you could raise it like a chocobo and call it and recharge it similar to a chocobo whistle :)

secondly i agree and think there should be a central pet store... I am not lazy and have high crafting on myself and mules but sometimes you just do not have the time and would just like to play and have fun instead of farming and crafting on your day off because in our server sometimes its just too much...
all the way out to farm ziz meat for hours and hours for horibble drop rates... or running around avoiding chigoes fighting against botters which have been reported many times watching them tele from harvest spot to harvest spot getting a couple chigoes an hour if ur lucky a stack are over 100k a pop on my server due to botters / rmt so a central store is a good idea some of the materials are a pain to farm and just don't have hours and hours to do so... just like before they changed the recipe for eta biscuits... he was giving an opinion so jumping all over him for an idea and continuing to argue is pointless some of us agree with his ideas others don't no point trolling agree to disagree or agree as some do

Oh you like that ;O?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/4500-Personal-Beast-Pet!-%28Give-it-a-Read!-You-might-like-it%29

Shamelesslypostingownthread.

not much attention, So we're in the Minority. But hey. you might like a read over.