Attack / Defense in the equipment menu?

[Jar]

Would it be possible to have them show values above 999?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

And how would one achieve said value?

[Jar]

And how would one achieve said value?


im always at 999 attack on drk.. love to know how much i really had..

[Mirage]

And how would one achieve said value?

Are you sure the value actually caps at 999 server side? If so, source? :p

[Khajit]

It was determined that atk can go over 999 pre abyssea via gekko testing as an unexpected side note.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I never said it was a cap.
But with that being said, it's probably a cap.

[Rambus]

I would like to see range attack vaules.

[Jar]

I would like to see range attack vaules.

Yeah this too!

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I would like to see range attack vaules.As would I. In addition, magic defence.

[Mirage]

Apparently, reaching 999 isn't too hard anymore, and apparently your real attack can actually be above 999. It looks like you are still arguing against displaying attack/defence values above 999, why? :p

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Apparently, reaching 999 isn't too hard anymore, and apparently your real attack can actually be above 999. It looks like you are still arguing against displaying attack/defence values above 999, why? :pProve those values exist first.
Plus. There's no room to display it.

[Supersun]

Are you sure the value actually caps at 999 server side? If so, source? :p

IIRC there was a test with Tachi:Gecko on BG that demonstrated that you could get "the equivalent pDIF" (not quoting the research) of more then 999 attack for a certain NM. Now by "the equivalent pDIF" that could mean a couple of things, either attack can in fact go higher then 999 which the equipment menu caps at, Tachi: Gecko has a hidden effect that ignores a portion of the monsters defense, or Tachi Gecko just gives a bonus to your pDIF value.

Either one of those 3 would explain how that certain number was reached. I'm not sure if there's any additional research of whether they have tested if normal attacks can break the 999 attack limitation, but it's not unbacked to say that attack can break 999, it's just not conclusive either to my knowledge. There certainly could have been further studies since then that I didn't read to have proven one or the other.

[Rambus]

As would I. In addition, magic defence.

well that would be the same as saying we want to see magic attack value but we can math those.

I am not sure if people where able to math range attack values past approximation and i think it is unknown what the natural range attack value is.

[Mirage]

Why should I? If a community rep asks the dev team and they say "there wouldn't be a point, because att/def can't go above 999", then the whole issue would be cleared up and the case would be closed. If the dev team says "sure why not" and does it, that would be a very clear indicator of values actually going above 999 server side.

And what do you mean by "no room to display it"? Looking at my equipment window right now, it looks like one extra digit per value would fit without any problems. Maybe even two digits.

[Rambus]

Why should I? If a community rep asks the dev team and they say "there wouldn't be a point, because att/def can't go above 999", then the whole issue would be cleared up and the case would be closed. If the dev team says "sure why not" and does it, that would be a very clear indicator of values actually going above 999 server side.

And what do you mean by "no room to display it"? Looking at my equipment window right now, it looks like one extra digit per value would fit without any problems. Maybe even two digits.

ps2? like brew effect all stats are 999, regardless of your gear the +xxx is different depending what you gear.

could take too much ram or something, that is all i can think of for keeping the display cap at 999

[Tsukino_Kaji]

ps2? like brew effect all stats are 999, regardless of your gear the +xxx is different depending what you gear.

could take too much ram or something, that is all i can think of for keeping the display cap at 999That just an assumption by peole that the brew gives +999 instead of making the value 999. There's no way to prove otherwise.

[Rambus]

well i can show this that there might be some cap display due to ps2, or cap in orginal programing:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/6148-How-can-COR-one-shot-Shinryu/page2


It was actually 67518 damage. A 2 byte variable is used to display the damage, so anything over 65335 will roll over.

that alone can show that display =/= your true values

also i think it was ffxII that did it, i do not remember but I remember a FF game that would desplay 9999 hp but you really had more then that.

like you can have 15 000 hp, take 5 000 damage and desplay shows 9 999 still


That just an assumption by peole that the brew gives +999 instead of making the value 999. There's no way to prove otherwise.

And looking at this again i am a bit confused, the +xxx is different for each stat that adds to 999

I do not think i can show it on my self not sure if i have a pic of me brewed

found one:

str 68+931
dex 75 +924
vit 70 +929
agi 79+920
int 84+915
MND 68+931
CHR 76+923
def 999 attack 999

I should of said base stats/base stat merits made the +xxx different, and not effected by gear for the +xxx givin by brew.

if you had all - stat gear without cour buffs ill still be total 999 so while brewed you get most damage full timing haste gear/ tripple attack gear and so on.

+ attack though? i wonder how brew and the desplay effects things

[Yugl]

That just an assumption by peole that the brew gives +999 instead of making the value 999. There's no way to prove otherwise.

You can prove whether you're setting 999 STAT or adding 999 STAT using spells with known parameters (Like Leafstorm).

@Mirage: We're likely to see "We'll take that back to Japan" without an explanation. Receiving a response to the question won't necessarily let us produce an answer.

[Rambus]

You can prove whether you're setting 999 STAT or adding 999 STAT using spells with known parameters (Like Leafstorm).

@Mirage: We're likely to see "We'll take that back to Japan" without an explanation. Receiving a response to the question won't necessarily let us produce an answer.

so where is the proof? I guess i could be wrong for your true stats but what i said is how the desplay works.

This would make my statment wrong in how you gear if you really do get +999

[Yugl]

Proof of what?

[Soundwave]

Would like to see avatars attack etc.

[Arcon]

It makes sense to assume that it's capped at 999. Whether it makes sense that it's capped at 999 is a whole different issue.

http://95.156.209.71/tmp/attack.png

Maybe not plenty of room, but it could fit. And as a computer scientist, there's no reason why any number should cap at 999, technically speaking. Since numbers are always stored as powers of 2, usually 2^8 (= 256) or 2^16 (= 65536) or higher, it would make sense to display it at those values. But since they are displayed as 999 cap, it makes sense to assume that this is no accident.

[Mirage]

It's not exactly unheard of that some game clients cap displayed values lower than the server operates with, maybe just because the devs didn't think anyone would ever get that high.

[Jar]

From all my tests with trcleaver attack does not cap at 999 because ive had 999 atack than poped endark and last resort and done alot more dmg with the 999 not changing..

[Supersun]

Maybe not plenty of room, but it could fit. And as a computer scientist, there's no reason why any number should cap at 999, technically speaking. Since numbers are always stored as powers of 2, usually 2^8 (= 256) or 2^16 (= 65536) or higher, it would make sense to display it at those values. But since they are displayed as 999 cap, it makes sense to assume that this is no accident.

0 is the first number most likely meaning that there's in fact 1000 values 0-999. Which would make it dividable by 8.

[Raksha]

0 is the first number most likely meaning that there's in fact 1000 values 0-999. Which would make it dividable by 8.

numbers are stored in binary, which means 0s and 1s, by definitition the maximum value storable by a regular interger is a power of 2. (2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,...) Neither 1000, nor 999 are powers are 2. No one said anything about being divisible by 8.

[Arcon]

It's not exactly unheard of that some game clients cap displayed values lower than the server operates with, maybe just because the devs didn't think anyone would ever get that high.

Yeah, just saying, especially if they didn't expect it to go that high, why cap the display at 999? But apparently many people have experienced different things, so guess that's just how they roll.

Also, this (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/6158-Ranged-Attack-in-equipment-menu).

[Mirage]

Yeah, showing those other stats would probably be more important to me as well. Especially rangers and corsairs would definitely benefit from it. As it presently is, the attack rating of their main mode of attacking is not shown anywhere in the game, and also when they /check a mob, they get a result that depends on their melee attack and accuracy. There is no real reason why ranged attackers shouldn't be allowed to see what melee attackers can see.

[Leonlionheart]

It's rather easy to test if attack caps at 999 for yourself just by eyeballing your damage.

For the highest damage you can do go hit a Detector or whatever the flying balls in altepa/grauberg/ulegruand [A] are. Get about 10 normal hits and 10 crits, that should give you a feeling for what capped fSTR and Attack damage can do.

Now the hard part, finding a mob that has over 500 defense and NO PDT. In my experiance Tablilla is one of the better targets to test yourself on because its so easy.

If your damage is higher with over 999 attack, it doesn't cap at 999. If it's not higher, it caps at 999.

However it's pretty common knowledge that attack doesn't cap, since you've been able to boost over 999 on mnk since lvl like 65.

[Mirage]

It's not that easy, because there is also a "soft cap" to attack where if your attack is more than twice the targets's defence, adding more attack won't increase damage anymore. From what I've gathered, the vast majority of mobs even in abyssea do not have more than around 400 def, (except maybe certain NMs), which means it's no point to parse, or even eyeball you damage against these mobs to see if your attack is above 999.

Furthermore, if you're going to make statistics that are worth anything at all, you need a large sample size. You need to land many (idk, a few hundreds?) attacks on a mob with a shitload of defence, and you need to do it all while being what you think is significantly above 999 attack. 1050 attack over 999 would probably be difficult to discern, especially with the naked eye.

[Runespider]

You realise it's easier to "fix" this and cap attack to what the client says it should cap at than what you are asking for right?

[Yugl]

Furthermore, if you're going to make statistics that are worth anything at all, you need a large sample size. You need to land many (idk, a few hundreds?) attacks on a mob with a shitload of defence, and you need to do it all while being what you think is significantly above 999 attack. 1050 attack over 999 would probably be difficult to discern, especially with the naked eye.

This is completely false. We know that your pDIF varies across a spectrum of values. For example, pDIF critical hits cap at 3.15, so if you see something jump higher than projected by a capped value, you know whats up.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

But they're still all asumptions based off of player tested numbers with no way to verify that the data is interperated correctly. I.e. Was that an average damaging attack, or was it a low damage attack with a different modifier such as a critical or double attack factored in? Is what we're saying is that all of this so called "hard data" has no real way of being verified. So with the topic at hand, there's no way to tell if it's capped at 999, has been adjusted to 999 or is above 999. Yugl? Can you have +999 to a stat without brewing in order to test these results? Can you tell all of the variables on every hit accuarately?

And, this is a big point for me, have you done said testing yourself or have you just been reading about it and repeating it?

[Raksha]

But they're still all asumptions based off of player tested numbers with no way to verify that the data is interperated correctly. I.e. Was that an average damaging attack, or was it a low damage attack with a different modifier such as a critical or double attack factored in? Is what we're saying is that all of this so called "hard data" has no real way of being verified. So with the topic at hand, there's no way to tell if it's capped at 999, has been adjusted to 999 or is above 999. Yugl? Can you have +999 to a stat without brewing in order to test these results? Can you tell all of the variables on every hit accuarately?

And, this is a big point for me, have you done said testing yourself or have you just been reading about it and repeating it?

Assuptions tested to a high degree of precision, which match a clear, specified model is called knowledge. We _KNOW_ that crit pDIF caps at 3.15, this isnt just random speculation. Using this information you can test whether or not attack goes above 999 to a high degree of certainty.

EDIT: clear and unambiguous.... /facepalm

[Alhanelem]

That just an assumption by peole that the brew gives +999 instead of making the value 999. There's no way to prove otherwise.
But if you can achieve an effective attack value of over 999 (and i've seen tests that suggest attack indeed can exceed 999(, then it ireally is just a display limitaiton and the brew could add who knows how much attack (or maybe not add any if it's already over 999- but the difference should be easy to see when using a brew vs not using brew)

[Malamasala]

Would like to see avatars attack etc.

Wouldn't matter, because their formulas are different. It has been tested that using +attack atmas do next to nothing for avatars. Which is why it is ironic that we asked for more pet attack items for 4 years and then got them just to notice they were meaningless.

Next time I'll be fool proof and ask for increased damage bonus instead of attack.

[Arcon]

Wouldn't matter, because their formulas are different. It has been tested that using +attack atmas do next to nothing for avatars.

Are you sure? I personally noticed a huge increase in damage with Stout Arm and Voracious Violet. I doubt I can attribute this all to luck, but the damage output was massive compared to without. It was in fact the point at which I decided to undust my SMN, to use it for Abyssea, that was before I got Razed Ruins. I remember, because I was actually SMN to my Ironclad Pulverizer farm.

[Jar]

But they're still all asumptions based off of player tested numbers with no way to verify that the data is interperated correctly. I.e. Was that an average damaging attack, or was it a low damage attack with a different modifier such as a critical or double attack factored in? Is what we're saying is that all of this so called "hard data" has no real way of being verified. So with the topic at hand, there's no way to tell if it's capped at 999, has been adjusted to 999 or is above 999. Yugl? Can you have +999 to a stat without brewing in order to test these results? Can you tell all of the variables on every hit accuarately?

And, this is a big point for me, have you done said testing yourself or have you just been reading about it and repeating it?

Wow man really...

there is 0 evidence other than hard hotheadedness that says attack doesn't go over 999

[Yugl]

But they're still all asumptions based off of player tested numbers with no way to verify that the data is interperated correctly. I.e. Was that an average damaging attack, or was it a low damage attack with a different modifier such as a critical or double attack factored in?

You can tell it's a critical hit when the log says critical hit. You can tell it's a double attack when you're not using OAT/Zanshin/TA and you attack twice.



Is what we're saying is that all of this so called "hard data" has no real way of being verified. So with the topic at hand, there's no way to tell if it's capped at 999, has been adjusted to 999 or is above 999. Yugl? Can you have +999 to a stat without brewing in order to test these results? Can you tell all of the variables on every hit accuarately?Yes, I can. If someone on my server has the cruor to burn and BLU leveled (Or wants to farm it for me so I can text sometime next week), we can definitely find out whether it is +999 or set to 999. Since BLU can reset the level of a group of mobs using BLU burn, we can find gain a consistent INT and MDB. We can use SCs to do determine SDT and MDT traits. Finally, knowing all of this, we can brew to see the changes that arise. Brew gives MAB, so we will need to account for that, but after that, it's (dINT*TM)+(92+.85*(.3*STR)). We should easily detect a difference between 999 and 999+~70INT+ or 999+~80STR+ in damage.


And, this is a big point for me, have you done said testing yourself or have you just been reading about it and repeating it?I've done leafstorm testing pre-brew. If you go outside the home town and find the rabbits/bats/mandies, they'll have an INT range of 6-7 (6 if you're close to town and 7 if far off). Test leafstorm using:

fTP=2.75 (+-.25 for monster correlation)
dINT<120
TM=2
WSC=.3

You'll get the value predicted. Apply to other mobs once you've found out their SDT, MDT, and MDB.

[Malamasala]

Are you sure? I personally noticed a huge increase in damage with Stout Arm and Voracious Violet. I doubt I can attribute this all to luck, but the damage output was massive compared to without. It was in fact the point at which I decided to undust my SMN, to use it for Abyssea, that was before I got Razed Ruins. I remember, because I was actually SMN to my Ironclad Pulverizer farm.

Yes. You are actually talking about the STR difference when you said you noticed your damage increased. I recall tests with Carby getting a STR bonus from glittering ruby being far superior to getting +pet attack. (While of course STR gives attack, the effect on damage is not like a melee)

I'd suggest you try some +attack atmas without +STR, it should give you worse results.

Of course +attack still raises your damage, but it is the least contributing source.