Suggestion : Hastage or make Accession work with haste.

[Rezeak]

I just want to put it out there the following reasons.

Casting haste on 3-4 people over and over isn't fun

There are time when your mage needs to focus so only the tank will get haste.
If your doing 3 hours of events i don't expect a mage to keep up a haste cycle for this amount of time tho the odd haste is still nice.
This in no way unbalances the game infact it allows the WHM or RDM or SCH to focus on more fun stuff like enfeeble or buffs.

Anyway i'm just asking SE to reconsider the decision to make haste AoE.

I'd be happy if they made it so only RDM and WHM get it so that they have something small over SCH.

Either way i'd like Hastage or Accession to work with it and if SE feel this is too much why not make the max duration 3-7 mins and vary with enhancing magic skill.

Refesh II could be put here as well i see no reason why a RDM couldn't Accession it.

In my opinion it kinda was a little petty not to allow this i mean Ja should work with everything it's ment to unless it was game breaking.

Either show ya surrport by posting.
Also if ya think it's overpowered or shouldn't be added in some way by posting.

[Kindra]

Well we do have AoE Hatse. The prob is that SMN is just not used often. ; ;

[Eeek]

I also would love Accession + Haste. :(

[Jalonis]

Heh, diffusion + animating wail

[Timo]

I'm betting Hastega comes alive in the next update. Mobs already have the spell, so why not let WHMs get it, too? I'd say once the spell actually exists natively, they'll remove the accession limitations on it. Especially considering as already pointed out both SMN and BLU can already do it.

[Malamasala]

SE tried to keep Hastega an exclusive to make people more interested in inviting Summoners. But they have to do a lot more than that to make anyone want to "waste" party slots on Summoner. Removing the global BP timer would be a good start.

[Rambus]

I would like to know why this was not allowed in the first place, it is not "OP"

[Bubeeky]

I really hope we get hastega soon...not that I'd be against rdm getting it, but wouldn't it be a whm only thing if we did get it? I mean...how many -ga spells does rdm get natively now?

[Malamasala]

As many as /SCH works with.

[Bubeeky]

lol /sch isn't native...I'm sayin' that if they added Hastega (which I hope they do) it would prolly be whm only unless it was haste + accession, which would also be welcome, although I'd hope for an official hastega first

[Soundwave]

Giving SCH hastega would just upset the balance between SCH and SMN.

[Supersun]

I would like to know why this was not allowed in the first place, it is not "OP"

Mainly because you could AoE haste from outside the party.

Though that's not as much of an issue anymore.

[Carth]

I really hope we get hastega soon...not that I'd be against rdm getting it, but wouldn't it be a whm only thing if we did get it? I mean...how many -ga spells does rdm get natively now?

Just diaga.


Mainly because you could AoE haste from outside the party.

Though that's not as much of an issue anymore.
It probably still is an issue to them. Not particularly to us (outside of SMN I guess), but I also assume SE sees Haste as a centralizing spell (in other words, it's dominant in most situations), so they wanted to limit how easy it is to cast it. Refresh and Refresh II being on the same boat seems to support that conclusion.

[Korpg]

Well we do have AoE Hatse. The prob is that SMN is just not used often. ; ;

Or not invited for that purpose.

[Rezeak]

I wouldn't go to a party that wanted my SMN for Hastage

not to mention what SCH does and what SMN does are totally different

[Kindra]

Or not invited for that purpose.

I agree Korpg. I feel SMN is one of those over looked jobs. Its a very capable job but hardly ever to never used to its full potential. Then again I have always been one to do things with those jobs that are over looked like that lol.

[Miera]

I vote RDMs get Haste II ;P

and yeah, Diffusion and Haste works but I don't know how often a BLU can keep doing that

[Kindra]

I think that they should just up the potency of SMN's hastga or give RDM hastga. WHM has enough to do without casting haste all the time lol. So they could either do SMN with more potency or give it to RDM as a spell not with a SCH ability.

[Malamasala]

It would be more likely that RDM got slowga, wouldn't it? Since they focus on debuffs primarily, and it is yet another pact SMN has that they don't have any use from.

[Aleste]

Short answer:

The limitations of accession are linked to any spell that Scholar gets natively or as a /sub. Which would explain why refresh2ga and hastega don't work.

Why would rdm get hastega, when none of their enhancing spells are aoe? If anything, whitemage has more native aoe-enhancing magic (39 to be exact).

Edit: Typo~

[Kindra]

Short answer:

The limitations of accession are linked to any spell that Scholar gets natively or as a /sub. Which would explain why refresh2ga and hastega don't work.

Why would rdm get hastega, when none of their enhancing spells are aoe? If anything, whitemage has more native aoe-enhancing magic (39 to be exact).

Edit: Typo~

Good point but I still feel that either RDM should get the spell or that SMN's BP for it should be given more potency. I just don't feel this is something that SCH or an SCH ability should have access to. If it were to come down to it WHM should be last in line for it after RDM or SMN. That's just my opinion though.

Edit:
Funny thing though RDM's Enhancing is higher then WHM's last time i checked. SCH's is up there with RDM's when light art's are up but I still don't feel that SCH should be the job to get an AoE haste.

[Aleste]

RDM does get a higher enhancing magic skill than whitemage, but I'm still bewildered as to why.

If you exclude bar-element, stoneskin and boost/gain spells (common across both RDM and WHM) the only remaining spells that change varying on skill are enspells and phalanx.

Either way, it would make more sense if RDM got -ga enfeebles whilst whm got -ga enhancements.

[Kindra]

AFter reading a bit on Wiki it seems that SMN WHM and RDM hastes are all 15% only differnce between them is the fact that a SMN's if summoning magic skil is capped can last up to 5 mins vrs 3 mins. BLU's is a 10% with agi+2 on it and lasts 5 mins. Again this is according to Wiki which has been known to be wrong. Also according to Wiki enhancing magic skill doesn't effect Haste. Only Summoning magic skill effects the hastega as far as duration. So yea...... We have hastega. But if the spell Hastga were to be added either RDM or WHM should get it.Or people need to just get a SMN in the party. Again this is based on what Wiki says so this could be wrong. Cause we all know Wiki has been proven wrong before.

[Carth]

RDM does get a higher enhancing magic skill than whitemage, but I'm still bewildered as to why.

If you exclude bar-element, stoneskin and boost/gain spells (common across both RDM and WHM) the only remaining spells that change varying on skill are enspells and phalanx.
And that would be exactly why.

[Aleste]

I don't see why a job with single target enhancing spells would specifically get a higher skill on the basis that they have 2 types of spells that vary (but not necessarily require the difference in) the mildly higher skill... moreso over a job capable of AOEing them.

(for clarification of above post)

[Zarabeth]

Speaking as RDM who's been in many many pts where the WHM is 'too busy' to cast haste at all, we should both get it.

[Carth]

I don't see why a job with single target enhancing spells would specifically get a higher skill on the basis that they have 2 types of spells that vary (but not necessarily require the difference in) the mildly higher skill... moreso over a job capable of AOEing them.

(for clarification of above post)
Enspells and Phalanx are actually very dependent on enhancing magic. In fact, that's all they're calculated by. As to why WHM doesn't have a higher skill than RDM, it's probably because they don't need it, especially when you add on JSE's which can specifically boost enhancing spells.

To get really technical though, WHM can just /SCH and have the same enhancing skill level (with the benefit of it already being capped) as RDM.

WHM should get hastega though. If there are any AoE spells RDM should get it'd be in the enfeebling department.

[Kindra]

Speaking as RDM who's been in many many pts where the WHM is 'too busy' to cast haste at all, we should both get it.

I agree with this.

[Supersun]

AFter reading a bit on Wiki it seems that SMN WHM and RDM hastes are all 15% only differnce between them is the fact that a SMN's if summoning magic skil is capped can last up to 5 mins vrs 3 mins. BLU's is a 10% with agi+2 on it and lasts 5 mins. Again this is according to Wiki which has been known to be wrong. Also according to Wiki enhancing magic skill doesn't effect Haste. Only Summoning magic skill effects the hastega as far as duration. So yea...... We have hastega. But if the spell Hastga were to be added either RDM or WHM should get it.Or people need to just get a SMN in the party. Again this is based on what Wiki says so this could be wrong. Cause we all know Wiki has been proven wrong before.

They have more then just Refueling you know. (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Animating_Wail)

[sope]

BLU's is a 10% with agi+2 on it and lasts 5 mins.

Animating Wail is 15% for 5 minutes

[Dallas]

SE tried to keep Hastega an exclusive to make people more interested in inviting Summoners. But they have to do a lot more than that to make anyone want to "waste" party slots on Summoner. Removing the global BP timer would be a good start.

Now that abyssea pts are 3-4 people, there's always room for a SMN. If Garuda is out, and she usually is, Hastega happens.

If any of you hate inviting SMN, just deal without hastega. (^^)d

[Dart]

token job is token

[Kindra]

That one i didn't see so i stand corrected Ty :)

Meaning the BLU spell i missed btw :)

[Dallas]

token job is token

And bandwagon job is Haste spamming complainer. Next thing you'll want is TH on MNK.

Do without.

[Greggles]

Short answer:

The limitations of accession are linked to any spell that Scholar gets natively or as a /sub. Which would explain why refresh2ga and hastega don't work.

Why would rdm get hastega, when none of their enhancing spells are aoe? If anything, whitemage has more native aoe-enhancing magic (39 to be exact).

Edit: Typo~

Well, SCH80/WHM40 gets Haste. So, SCH does get Haste as a /sub.

[Duelle]

I vote RDMs get Haste II ;PPlease keep us out of this. >.>

[Seriha]

Yeah, only way Haste II should hit RDMs is some kind of melee integration that enhances the effect of buff spells, maybe making Haste 20% at most. In general, the perception that they're undeserving of AoE buffs, though, needs to go away unless SE decides to universally up the durations of single-casts. Cycling is not, nor has ever been fun.

[Zyeriis]

I vote RDMs get Haste II ;P

I vote Paladin >:O

[Seriha]

I vote Paladin >:O

Resist the temptation!

[Dart]

And bandwagon job is Haste spamming complainer. Next thing you'll want is TH on MNK.

Do without.

haha i hit a nerve! and you were silly enough to react

[Supersun]

I vote Paladin >:O

I vote Mnk, yeah I went there.

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH!

[Dallas]

haha i hit a nerve! and you were silly enough to react

You obviously don't know me that well. If you did, you'd have Hastega. I never do without, unlike a bandwagoneer.

[Greatguardian]

You obviously don't know me that well. If you did, you'd have Hastega. I never do without, unlike a bandwagoneer.

To be fair, any mage who isn't lazy as hell can keep a Haste rotation going while performing their other duties. There's no real need for Hastega at all aside from the complete and utter unwillingness to perform basic tasks.

[Dallas]

Obviously. This thread is proof of that unwillingness.

[Seriha]

Basic tasks are one thing, doing it frequently for a few hours is another. Anyone who loved the Haste/Refresh cycle is outright batty.

[Zyeriis]

This idea, while a little lazy, isn't really that big of a deal. It really removes a headache/mind numbing aspect to being a mage (especially red mage). Yes, haste rotation is possible and easy but, doing it for hours on end is taxing. Some relief in the form of a way to make haste into a -ga spell would be welcome. Does anyone truly enjoy having to cast haste on every single person in the party over and over? If so, please speak up and iterate why you find it enjoyable, I would seriously like to know.

[Greatguardian]

I'd be far more annoyed trying to Hastega when people aren't within 10' of each other =/. If being a Mage is "boring", I question how well people are playing their mage jobs. There is always more to do if you have the spare time to do it. Period. Melee can be boring, not Mages.

The same could be said for repeating the same actions over and over. Again, Mages have way more to do/repeat than Melee do, and yet people always complain about Mage tasks being mind-numbing. If it's numbing your brain, play your Mage more actively and do more with it. This entire thread is like listening to a Bard complaining about how boring it is to cast 2 songs then afk for 3 minutes. Who else but total crap Bards cast 2 songs then afk for 3 minutes?

[Zyeriis]

I'd be far more annoyed trying to Hastega when people aren't within 10' of each other =/. If being a Mage is "boring", I question how well people are playing their mage jobs. There is always more to do if you have the spare time to do it. Period. Melee can be boring, not Mages.

The same could be said for repeating the same actions over and over. Again, Mages have way more to do/repeat than Melee do, and yet people always complain about Mage tasks being mind-numbing. If it's numbing your brain, play your Mage more actively and do more with it. This entire thread is like listening to a Bard complaining about how boring it is to cast 2 songs then afk for 3 minutes. Who else but total crap Bards cast 2 songs then afk for 3 minutes?

Where's your argument? That mages are just haste whores and thats the primary aspect of being a mage and if you find the haste cycle boring/mind numbing you're not doing your job right? How does Haste-ga not enable mages to do more? I ask, again, where's your argument?

[Greatguardian]

Where's your argument? That mages are just haste whores and thats the primary aspect of being a mage and if you find the haste cycle boring/mind numbing you're not doing your job right? How does Haste-ga not enable mages to do more? I ask, again, where's your argument?

Other way around. Haste is a minor part of the Mage job at best right now. It is simply something to do. Having the spell be single target allows you to move yourself and cast it as opposed to trying to get people to stay within 10' of a central target every 3 minutes (Hellish, depending on the situation).

If you're honestly freaking out about how "tedious", "time consuming", or "boring" having a Haste cycle is I have to wonder what in the world you're actually doing on your Mage. Would the option of Hastega be helpful on occasion? Sure. But you'd pretty much have to fulltime choose between Single Target and Hastega because of way recasting it would end up. If you Hastega your party, everyone's Haste is going to wear off at the same time. If, in 2 minutes 30 seconds, your party is too spread out to hit them all with a second Hastega, forcing you to switch to Single-Target Haste, people are going to be without Haste for up to a minute while you deal with Haste's recast.

Haste rotations are not preventing Mages from casting other spells. Personally, I'm always casting some other spell in between each Haste cast while the recast cools down. At best you lose 3~ spells every 3 minutes casting 6 Hastes as opposed to 1 Hastega (assuming it has double the casting time of Haste). I won't say that having the option would be unwelcome. But the complaint itself has very little ground to stand on.

[Carth]

Other way around. Haste is a minor part of the Mage job at best right now. It is simply something to do. Having the spell be single target allows you to move yourself and cast it as opposed to trying to get people to stay within 10' of a central target every 3 minutes (Hellish, depending on the situation).

If you're honestly freaking out about how "tedious", "time consuming", or "boring" having a Haste cycle is I have to wonder what in the world you're actually doing on your Mage. Would the option of Hastega be helpful on occasion? Sure. But you'd pretty much have to fulltime choose between Single Target and Hastega because of way recasting it would end up. If you Hastega your party, everyone's Haste is going to wear off at the same time. If, in 2 minutes 30 seconds, your party is too spread out to hit them all with a second Hastega, forcing you to switch to Single-Target Haste, people are going to be without Haste for up to a minute while you deal with Haste's recast.
Have you ever been in a ToAU party? As a RDM as you could do was haste 4 DDs and cure spam. You could Dia if your party allows it (there's been a few times where the party leader disliked it when I casted this, especially if he was /SAM), but for the most part as long as you kept up your haste cycle and cure, that's all you were needed to do. Oh, I suppose keeping sleeping links is also a point.

Abyssea is a whole new ballpark where in your case, yeah, there's always something to do as a mage, but that's only in Abyssea. Having Hastega would not only be great everywhere else, but it'd also be more time-efficient.

[Greatguardian]

Have you ever been in a ToAU party? As a RDM as you could do was haste 4 DDs and cure spam. You could Dia if your party allows it (there's been a few times where the party leader disliked it when I casted this, especially if he was /SAM), but for the most part as long as you kept up your haste cycle and cure, that's all you were needed to do. Oh, I suppose keeping sleeping links is also a point.

Abyssea is a whole new ballpark where in your case, yeah, there's always something to do as a mage, but that's only in Abyssea. Having Hastega would not only be great everywhere else, but it'd also be more time-efficient.

I fully merited 6 jobs in ToAU parties, so yes. But a few things about that are off. With good DDs, you never needed to cure spam (read: Yes, using Hasso). Mobs simply died too quickly. Using Dia/Slow/Para was also important, what is so hard about casting Erase/Paralyna right away? This is especially true if you tag the mob while the Bard brings it in, as opposed to when it's on the DDs, as the spell would be reflected back to you or the bard.

The EXP scenario is of decreasing importance anyways when EXP is so dreadfully easy to get. What non-Abyssea event would Hastega be helpful in? Dynamis? No. Einherjar? No. Sea? Definitely no. Sky? Another definite no. Limbus? Not really. Salvage? Definitely no.

In all of these events, if players are acting to their utmost potential, they are not going to be close enough together consistently enough for Hastega to be worthwhile.

[Carth]

I agree Dia was important but mobs died too fast to warrant Slow/Para unless they simply weren't dying fast enough, in which case casting Slow(II) was nice. I never bothered with Paralyze. I see your point in "tagging" the mob before DDs hit it, but I only did that with Dia. If I happen to find a party like that I'll give it a shot.

The new BCNMs I would warrant Hastega to be more time-efficient. Also, saying "if players are acting to their utmost potential" is kinda faulty. That could mean many things, even grouping together to get a Hastega, or the mage running over to cast Hastega.

[Malamasala]

I still think the best solution to all of this is to cap haste lower. That way haste is less a big deal and about as awesome as paralyze and other spells that you can skip occasionally without anyone going insane.

[Seriha]

I'm just kind of wondering what FFXI people were playing where physical DDs in your party were so far spread out that, in effect, a 20 yalm cast (10 to one direction, 10 the opposite) would consistently miss the people whacking on the same mob or two. Now, if we're talking mages in Dynamis soloing their own mob here and there, okay, but for EXP when camps were often stationary or rather limited in roaming with the puller hopefully bringing the mobs to them one after the other? Not so much. Either way, I've felt the magic number for using some kind of buffga would be 3 people or more, so 120 MP for a Hastega, leading to a potential savings of another 120 MP and 12-15s or more of time to do other things. Ideally the durations would be upped to 5 minutes, and I'd even take a 66% MP increase to do it, with Refresh also being changed to match the same duration. The whole 150s vs. 180s has bugged me for years since it will always lead to some inconsistencies in your cycles over time.

[Kindra]

Either way Hastega is already out there and can be used. The problem is that people choose not to use it. Both SMN and BLU can do it. Sorry but the OP asked about us getting it and I keep seeing people say we don't have it when we do have it lol.

[Seriha]

SMNs have to deal with a bit of impracticality with their version, but I know I never said it didn't exist. BLUs, on the other hand, require a fully invested merit ability that stops at a 10m timer, meaning for 5 of 10 minutes, people wouldn't be hasted. Not exactly good, and arguably Diffusion would be better spent on the more unique buffs they could offer a group in a clutch situation.

Frankly, COR is about the only job SE got right with buff durations. Having played Aion, Chanter could often be inferred to as the game's BRD equivalent, in kind they could set up 3 "always on" AoE buffs that would take effect for anyone within range of the Chanter. Rift had similar amongst the various classes/souls, basically making these jobs more fun to play since you're not worrying about maybe missing a wear message in the chat log or freaking out when a fatal strike lands mid-cast of another buff. When I see players grumble about job burnout, it tends to be an overtaxed mage. In FFXI's case, gaining the above 12-15s could translate to thousands of HP of additional damage or stronger party safety.

[Kindra]

Oh and I forgot about BRD having 2 haste's they can stack and and is AoE. ANd yes COR's is nice as well. :)

The point is that it is out there. While I understand what your saying Seriha, it is there and we do have access to it. I know what its like to be on SMN and just be a buff whore. It does tend to get annoying. But the BP timers are just a min. long at most. And then take into account that the Hastega lasts 5 mins there are other things a SMN can do in those times. SMN can do damage & buff sine they made the BP timers seperate for the Buffs and DD sides. I just think that SMN is underrated at this point. Also all i can see is people wanting SCH to have it now as well. Don't get me wrong people like SCH, I am just not one of those people.

I just think before people start saying we don't have it SCH should get it they should look into what is there and see that we do have it and just use the jobs that do have it. If they choose not to its not SE's fault.

Where is the Impracticality? Just asking since I seem to be missing it lol

[Seriha]

Summon Garuda, position, BP, release. MP Cost = Hastega + a few Perp cycles + Garuda's actual cost. As is, the only reason I really see why SMN got a 5m potential is exactly because of the BP timers.

In the old days, keeping her out as well as dumping PC likely wasn't practical since you'd probably not have enough Refresh to sustain yourself for long durations. In Abyssea it's more feasible, sure, but it doesn't really eliminate the issue once you're outside.

Anyway, bringing BRD's marches into it doesn't do much good since they stack with the White, Blue, or Summon magic equivalents that don't stack with each other. BRDs have also been getting a steady flow of -cast gear and song duration boosts, as well as their merit ability to double durations for at least 5 of 10 minutes for a few songs. AoE buffing is pretty much their thing, though, and BRD's sub tends to play a big role on what it does in between those casts. Other mages aren't so lucky, but on top of needing potentially 3x more time to get their Hastes out, they've got other things to do like enfeeble, cure, refresh, etc.. I imagine BRDs would also be raging if Marches were single-target by default.

So, for me, it's not so much about "their thing" as it is taking the tedium out of already busy jobs if played well. If all you're doing is inviting a SMN for Hastega, you're wasting a SMN.

[Kindra]

Summon Garuda, position, BP, release. MP Cost = Hastega + a few Perp cycles + Garuda's actual cost. As is, the only reason I really see why SMN got a 5m potential is exactly because of the BP timers.

In the old days, keeping her out as well as dumping PC likely wasn't practical since you'd probably not have enough Refresh to sustain yourself for long durations. In Abyssea it's more feasible, sure, but it doesn't really eliminate the issue once you're outside.

Anyway, bringing BRD's marches into it doesn't do much good since they stack with the White, Blue, or Summon magic equivalents that don't stack with each other. BRDs have also been getting a steady flow of -cast gear and song duration boosts, as well as their merit ability to double durations for at least 5 of 10 minutes for a few songs. AoE buffing is pretty much their thing, though, and BRD's sub tends to play a big role on what it does in between those casts. Other mages aren't so lucky, but on top of needing potentially 3x more time to get their Hastes out, they've got other things to do like enfeeble, cure, refresh, etc.. I imagine BRDs would also be raging if Marches were single-target by default.

So, for me, it's not so much about "their thing" as it is taking the tedium out of already busy jobs if played well. If all you're doing is inviting a SMN for Hastega, you're wasting a SMN.

Garuda is a free avatar for those that have the right gear in and out of abyssea. /rdm has added refresh as well. Keeping her out isn't as cumbersome as it used to be. Garuda's favor is evasion and that helps everyone although i will say that some of the others have better favors :). BP timers are a minute at most with gear and certain past staves you can lower that as well. Her hastega lasts 5 mins you can do 2-3 DD BP's in that time. And keep her out to just hit on the mob between those :).

I will say that anywhere the mobs dies in under 5 secs isn't a great place for a smn to be lol. But for bosses and things that take a bit it can be a useful job :)