Do you think it's time to simplify the Ultimate Weapon creation process?

[nixRidge]

Hi all. Sometime last year I created the Lv. 90 Twashtar, but during the process I was wondering if the full process is really warranted anymore.

Are the weapons still so good nowadays, that they warrant camping Notorious Monsters for many hours, and collecting several thousand stones?
This is a genuine question, I haven't played this game nearly as long as most people on this forum has so I might be clueless.

I'm not suggesting they should be given away for free, just to be clear.
I was thinking it might be nice to at least shorten some of the Magian Trials.

For the Twashtar, I was thinking something like this could be done:

10 Glavoid Shell (down from 50)
25 Itzpapalotl Scales (down from 50)
50 Orthrus Claws (down from 75)
750 Heavy Metal (down from 1 500)
45 Riftdross (down from 60)
7 500 Stones (down from 10 000)

If nothing else, I'd be happy if they reduced the amount of Glavoid you have to kill... Good lord that was painful :rolleyes:

Anyway, I understand these are supposed to be extremely special weapons that most players will not obtain, so it makes sense the process is a bit painful.
But again, some of these steps could really stand to be simplified in my opinion..

I'm curious what more experienced players feel about the matter.
Thank you in advance for sharing your opinions!

[Gwydion]

I would like this.

...I would also like if there was more content that took advantage of empyrean aftermath? Lots of moving around makes white damage less appealing than say, Prime Weapons + PDL.

[Voidstorm]

I think it's time to get Kupon-I Aby added to the monthly Ambuscade rewards. probably 10 per month split between the 3 categories.
Also bring those materials back to Login more frequently.

[nixRidge]

That'd help a lot just by itself. Good idea :)

[Okosego]

I definitely think the Heavy Metal Plates should be lowered from 1500.

[nixRidge]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Haha.

[Alhanelem]

I was thinking it might be nice to at least shorten some of the Magian Trials.Relic weapons in particular are so easy now I can't really agree with shortening this. All these types of weapons are meant to take a signifcant amount of time. You're not supposed to get all of them. (though I'm sure a few people have, except for the prime weapons)

Even with these lengthy trials the newer uber weapon lines are still longer.

These grinds are a major factor in keeping people playing. If you shorten them, certain people who complain of having nothing to do will have even less to do.

[nixRidge]

Yeah, I actually never looked much at the relic weapons until now. Those seem really easy to make!


To be entirely fair, the biggest factor that inspired me to make this thread to begin with was Glavoid. After spawning that thing fifty times, Itzpapalotl and Orthrus were downright pleasant xD


If not shortening some of the trials themselves, maybe some of the NMs could be a little easier to spawn instead. That would aid a few of the most painful weapons.
Still on the topic of Glavoid, if it was easier to spawn, that'd aid the Ukonsvara and Wicce armour as well as the Twashtar. I don't mean all of them should be easier to spawn, since Orthrus is already extremely easy to spawn. But Glavoid, man that thing is just the worst.

[Alhanelem]

some specific cases could be made due to imbalances on the content side where X weapon has abyssea mobs that can be spawned / killed more easily than weapon Y. That's fine in the name of balancing.

[Frededde]

Ambuscade already simplified the RME forging process.

[Dragoy]

Some 11 or so years ago, I made the Kogarasumaru, which I never thought I would be able to make, back some ages past, but then I did!

I knew the Masamune probably was/is more powerful, but I wanted to make a Mythic more, and I do like the design more, so I did.

I did also make Masamune up to level 90 back around then.

Quite recently I finished the Masamune, and it certainly can be more powerful indeed, and better in that I don't need to feed the enemy more TP while hitting triple damage, but I still do use the Kogarasumaru over it for some things (and lock-style it over Masamune).

Anyblue, I noticed I had 90 million sitting in the mog garden chest of one of my later characters on another server, and decided to make the Masamune as fast as I can.

The Abyssea parts went very fast. Even the parts where you need the timed enemy for the key item, I didn't have that much competition even on Bahamut which I suppose is one of the more populated servers.

In fact, I basically finished the Isgebind stage in one sitting. I mean I did get up at times, but I did not leave Abyssea due to making use of the timely chests and golden boxes also for additional key items.

That was a day!

It really is weird how they "balanced" those parts. I mean compare Carabosse to Glavoid. What is that even indeed.

So I threw my gil at the Heavy Metal part, and now it's Riftcinder.

Those are kind of short in supply even on Bahamut.

Well, there is stock, but people are pretty good at staying at the 300k limit for singles.

Some buy them to re-sell as a stack.

I figured I'll try Morta for them, since it's the campaign time and all! Well actually I did 100 of it before the campaign already, but yeah.

I'll include the loot here in case it is of any interest to anyone, and no, surprisingly making notes of everything did not make it any more enjoyable!

301 Morta defeated, 104 or so before the campaign.

The main things everyone wants from it (well, riftdross and heavy metal are better elsewhere, I maybe guess):

- 50 heavy metal
- 10 riftcinder
- 4 riftdross

All of the loot, super not-organised:





I probably shouldn't complain about spending a few days on this, though, since all the other loot would sell for some gil to an NPC.

I wish I had the space to store them, really, and/or sell them via the auction house instead!

Also fun to imagine back to the days when Voidwatch was an alliance event, while now I can mostly do some other things while doing it.

(Again, surprisingly little competition on the spots even during the campaign, but I suppose I can see why it is not a popular waste of time!)

With all that in mind, I suppose they always intended people to buy at least some of the items from others, which I never liked, especially nowadays when a lot of those are likely bots (I really doubt any legitimate player uses their time to get Alexandrite to sell it for example).

And on that note, thinking about my Morta experience and I actually still remember quite well how I was watching a stream back in 2012, of a person going for Heavy Metal, and they were excited about getting that Heavy Metal pouch.

I lost my thoughts about trains.

I suppose I mainly wanted to share the recent Morta experience, and how Riftcinders (and dross) are probably not meant to be obtained via Voidwatch. ^^;

It's mainly for the logs and other materials.

So, yeah, I would definitely like to see adjustments to these settings, though I'm not entirely keen on the Dynamis currency bits either. That is, think of getting it solely manually from the event itself. It's pretty crazy, too.

The rest require alliances or very well equipped parties, which I don't like, because it feels like I'm being "carried" through the thing, without really helping myself.

That's about Aeonic and Prime weapons.

Not saying they should all be soloable either, though.

This got a lot longer than intended, and also very un-edited, and written as thoughts came to my mind while writing it which is not what I usually do, so apologies for that if it's a bit difficult to follow!

Of course after the Rift part comes the bould or whathave you stone part, which is even wors in ways.

Somehow it's more about doing other things to buy the items from others, than doing the content that gives you the items, really, and sadly the AH will be supplied by bots only for a lot of these.

That's not good.

After this part of course is the 10k other kind of grin, which also people probably mainly buy their way out of.

Not sure if working as intended...

The very last part, the augmenting, I think actually seems fair and O.K. in general in that it is very doable by just, you know, doing the content.

I was probably going to say something more, but for now I think I'll

[Sueno]

They wont lower the requirements because they created new weapons that basically replace them(or did they? see the side note). If you want a weapon that deals large amounts of damage, make a Prime. A Prime weapon actually does more damage using the Empy weaponskill then the Empy weapon it is on, thanks to the PDL+ aftermath. The triple damage, on melee hits, of the stage 5 prime does the same overall white damage as the Empy aftermath thanks to the PDL+ on it.

Empy aftermath 50% triple damage on melee at 3000tp
Prime stage 5 30% triple damage on melee(no aftermath needed)+ PDL increase

It takes 170 hours(assuming 50k Galli per run) to make a prime stage 5.

How long does it take to make a Empy weapon from start(NM hunting) till finish(R15)?

Most make a Empy weapon because they are told it does the most damage. This is not true. At this point you make a Empy weapon if you really WANT to and like the weapon. I prefer the Relic weapons as they enhance the way I play the jobs better then any other weapon(I wish all jobs could use them).

Side note: The Relic weaponskills(R15) do the same damage at 1000tp as the Prime weaponskills at 2000tp. You have to be at 2000+tp to do more damage with a Prime weaponskill. In the time needed to build to that tp; the Relic weapon holder next to you has already done 2 weaponskills and the resulting Light/Darknes skillchain, which has done more overall damage then your 1 3000tp Prime weaponskill. Where the Primes come out ahead is when you have 2, or more, of them doing a multi-step skillchain.

The Relic(R15) and Prime stage 5 are very balanced!

The reason to get a Prime is not for the damage, it is for the weaponskill's skillchain properties that open up new skillchain possibilities. To further balance the Prime weapons, they made it so you cannot double Light/Darkness with a Prime weapon after closing a Light/Darkness skillchain with the Prime weaponskill. The Relic/Empy and Prime weaponskills are opposite elements.

[Alhanelem]

I was probably going to say something more, but for now I think I'll fall asleep perhaps? :p

[nixRidge]

True to his word, he wasn't going to say something more :D

[Dragoy]

They wont lower the requirements because they created new weapons that basically replace them(or did they? see the side note). If you want a weapon that deals large amounts of damage, make a Prime. A Prime weapon actually does more damage using the Empy weaponskill then the Empy weapon it is on, thanks to the PDL+ aftermath. The triple damage, on melee hits, of the stage 5 prime does the same overall white damage as the Empy aftermath thanks to the PDL+ on it.

Empy aftermath 50% triple damage on melee at 3000tp
Prime stage 5 30% triple damage on melee(no aftermath needed)+ PDL increase

It takes 170 hours(assuming 50k Galli per run) to make a prime stage 5.

How long does it take to make a Empy weapon from start(NM hunting) till finish(R15)?


If not using other methods to make gil and then buy items needed, an Empyrean will take quite a while I imagine, especially considering the random nature of loot.

Going by the 50k Galli, I'd maybe guess Empyrean takes longer, per my recent testing, but I could be very wrong.

Then again, one must be able to get that 50k Galli.

I can solo about 8k per run I think, or a bit over 10k if I have the keys to Dhartok (solo with a little-better-than-Ulmia-and-Joachim-bard helping with creeper egoes).


Most make a Empy weapon because they are told it does the most damage. This is not true. At this point you make a Empy weapon if you really WANT to and like the weapon. I prefer the Relic weapons as they enhance the way I play the jobs better then any other weapon(I wish all jobs could use them).

Side note: The Relic weaponskills(R15) do the same damage at 1000tp as the Prime weaponskills at 2000tp. You have to be at 2000+tp to do more damage with a Prime weaponskill. In the time needed to build to that tp; the Relic weapon holder next to you has already done 2 weaponskills and the resulting Light/Darknes skillchain, which has done more overall damage then your 1 3000tp Prime weaponskill. Where the Primes come out ahead is when you have 2, or more, of them doing a multi-step skillchain.

The Relic(R15) and Prime stage 5 are very balanced!

The reason to get a Prime is not for the damage, it is for the weaponskill's skillchain properties that open up new skillchain possibilities. To further balance the Prime weapons, they made it so you cannot double Light/Darkness with a Prime weapon after closing a Light/Darkness skillchain with the Prime weaponskill. The Relic/Empy and Prime weaponskills are opposite elements.

I do believe I've always had the mind-set of the Empyrean great katana being the best for raw damage, yeah, though I still made the Mythic first.

I do admit I forgot a lot of the properties on the Relic one(s) a lot, and I think I will make it soon too.

Most importantly, just like the Mythic, it has accuracy++!


fall asleep perhaps? :p

Yes!


True to his word, he wasn't going to say something more :D

Yes yes!

[Zheta]

I think I would prefer stuff like Heavy Metal Plates and Riftdross/cinder (reliably) drop from more than just Voidwatch and Ambuscade. Maybe they could drop from things like Limbus, Vagary, Sinister Reign, Reives, HTMBs, etc.?

Also, making the timed-spawns in Abyssea 5 minutes instead of 15 minutes would help congestion on those.

[Dragoy]

Indeed, actually doing the content for the items feels very unrewarding due to the rarity of said items, but I suppose they could have intended for people to also buy them from others... or just grind for 11 years for one stage. Somehow I feel the latter is the more plausible option.

The (currently) last part, the detritus, I think I felt the most reasonable for the higher stages, though it was a handful of years ago when I last did that.

Of course Omen does get tiring, too, and there are entry limits, but at least it's not a maximum of once per day or more.

The augments even go up a little bit every now and then along the way.

Of course, before that, one must get 10,000 job points to be allowed to do that, and there's a limit of 700 per week (Earth time).

What's more, it needs to be done for each weapon type! I'm not sure actually if it's just once for all of Mythics, once for all of Relics, and so on, or for every single weapon type (Great Katana, Sword, ...).

That part, too, certainly could use some adjustments, especially considering those who can beat (or know people who can beat) all of the Dynamis Divergence bosses in at least one area get to skip that part.

O whell, at least they'll be throwing more Mog Bananza at us, and it is the perfect way to acquire a wide range of equipment, or so the legend says...

[Shiyo]

They should be buffed to be more competitive, too many of them are not good.
They do not need to be made easier to make, they add a lot of replay value.