Final Fantasy Vana'Diel Collection 3! (Now with Epic Items~)

[Karbuncle]

On May 15th, Square is releasing the FINAL FANTASY XI Ultimate Collection Abyssea Edition for $19.99 USD. The collection includes all expansions released so far.

The collection includes a bonus item:
Destrier Beret
[Head]All Races
DEF: 7 Enchantment: Costume (Adolescent chocobo)
Latent effect (Lv.30 and below): Adds "Regen" and "Refresh effects"
Auto-Reraise
Increases skill gain rate
Increases movement speed
Lv.1 All Jobs

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/2682/vanadielcollection.png (Picture)

---------------------------------------------------------------

So now that Thats said and done. Will us Loyal Customers who have been buying these expansions and playing since the other Collections ever see this item? or will we be F**ked out of the item >.>?

Either Way, Discuss~

[Fiarlia]

I'm hoping we get the item myself. >_<

[Sanity]

It'd be really silly if we got screwed out of the special item :\ Especially since most of us payed for each of the expansions/add-ons individually and was far more expensive then just $20... My hopes it'll be like when they gave us the Nexus Cape for buying A Crystalline Prophecy, A Moogle Kupo d'Etat, and A Shantotto Ascension and they'll give us the Destrier Beret for buying all 3 Abyssea expansions.

[Karbuncle]

If not we can always riot.

I'm not even sure why i Care. Every single one of my jobs is level 45~+ >.>

But eh.

[Zyeriis]

If not we can always riot.

I'm not even sure why i Care. Every single one of my jobs is level 45~+ >.>

But eh.

Principle of the matter ^^;?

[Karbuncle]

It looks cool

Plus i can just pick it up for my Mule >.>. He'll get use of it~!

[Sanity]

I missed out on the twitter chocobo beret i'd like to at least get this one :<

[Zyeriis]

Hmm, that's a really long list of latent effects. Here's to hoping that the skill-up rate increasing one isn't part of the below level 30 latent. It's unlikely as it's below the Latent but it would be nice.

Anyway, at the very least >_> we would get a chocobo costume item if all our jobs are 30+, right?

[Krisan]

I don't mind if I have to buy this (even though I have everything already) but I will be kinda pissed if I can't get the item without starting a whole new account. I recently started a new character, actually, and would really like to use this for him to help me get an edge on leveling my jobs. Though since I did just create a new character, it wouldn't be entirely without merit to make a new account anyway.. (though in that case, I'd be screwed out of the EX items my main has once the next patch goes live. Which is meh.)

[Misi]

There was a similar incident last year with the other add ons where people were jiped per say when "A Shantotto Ascension" came out. $10 per add on, but when the last one came out, that day you could get all three for $15 after all ready paying $20 for the first two. I forget if it was an online offer, or a game stop only, but it existed. I'm sure it was done for good reasons, admittedly those sets of add ons were my least favorite, and in a way seemed like a "test" for what was to come :abyssea. in terms of DLC.

The Beret is adorable, I hope there is at least some sort of quest to obtain one for those of us who actually bought the add ons as they came out. (granted, I get the whole idea of something being exclusive for a reason, but I like cute things. I enjoy when the dev team shys away from "serious" ways and does something goofy like this) Abyssea is too good for so many reasons that I can't see a beret making or breaking the initial purchase. Unless someone just can't financially purchase them at the moment.

If you guys ever decide to make another, an alternate color or design or even a different mascot type. a Cait Sith one would be really cute with little green button eyes, crown and red ear flaps with pom pom ties. or a carbuncle one in the same fashion.

Sorry Brygid, I'm taking your job, don't beat me!

[Zyeriis]

No Cait Sith hat please >_> I finished WotG just to never see that furball ever again. True story.

If such a hat is added, SE may find piles of dead players crammed in some alleyway in Jeuno. Pre-emptive response: "It was me!"

[Krisan]

I don't think there will be a quest for this, and I highly doubt those of us who own everything will just get it. You'll have to buy it, that's certainly going to be the end of the story there. Now the question of whether the item can be applied to current POL accounts, or whether you have to start a new account for the item is another matter entirely.. I remember that adventurers campaign they had with the mandy hats.. Couldn't make use of that campaign on new characters with existing accounts, one of the accounts involved had to be brand new. (Which was dumb.. I hope it's not like that.)

[Misi]

Hehe, Zyeriis. Whats wrong? You don't want its cute little eyes following you around the room no matter where you go? (I kid) :)

[Sanity]

If they made a Carbuncle hat I would go to great lengths to get one >____>;

[Krisan]

If they made a Carbuncle hat I would go to great lengths to get one >____>;
I wouldn't mind having one of those either. >_>

[Sanity]

Just announced, we get a Prishe Statue for buying all three abyssea expansions
OH IM JUST SO HAPPY FOR THIS *end sarcasm* -_- i wanted the hat.

[Dmer]

I doubt they will give those of us who bought all 3 add-ons individually the choco hat since they are giving us the Prishe statue.

[Karbuncle]

Oh, Joy.

My loyatly gives me a worthless decoration statue, While the people who hold out get the best head armor in the entire game for 1-30 Content.

wooooo, Thanks SE?




Still. Sarcasm Aside, I hold hope. Theres a good chance this ITem might be given to us for the Ninth Anniversary Adventurer Appreciation Campaign too. Remember when they said they were giving us an item that was great and also "For the Fashion minded adventurer"? This could be it.

It lines up... That and I deep down really don't care if I get this item :| I can't make use of it outside of Costume... But It'd be nice. At the same time you could pay 20$ for the Expansion and just use the code.

Woo 20$ hat! :D

[Sanity]

Still. Sarcasm Aside, I hold hope. Theres a good chance this ITem might be given to us for the Ninth Anniversary Adventurer Appreciation Campaign too. Remember when they said they were giving us an item that was great and also "For the Fashion minded adventurer"? This could be it.

It lines up...

I Really do hope so...

[Misi]

Prishe statue : She better be drop-kicking something.

[Karbuncle]

Its her Fighting pose AFAIK

Shows it on the PoL site.

Sanity is slow :O! I beat her to post!

[Sanity]

The description made me laugh a little (by a little i mean "hehe" >.>) but giving us the statue instead of the hat is like giving us a small hard candy and giving the people who buy the collection a new car


Edit: Karb's a Dork :p

[Misi]

Well. one way to look at it, anyone who is just starting fresh in abyssea has a lot of work cut out for them. Not jealous of that aspect.

Though, If they ever make a gender-neutral visible moonshade earring i'll be happy! such a pretty design not to be used but called an actual item.

[Bulrogg]

yay, thanks for this statue that takes up more space in my Mog House. <.<

Not that I would find much use for the Destrier beret with no jobs under 50. Although I do still fill a bit jipped. Shouldn't the ones that paid the higher fee's as the add-ons came out get the better item? Unless the statue has so kick ass hidden effects.... :?


the battle continues.......

[Rambus]

finally my alt can have abyssea + expands.

[PizzaTheHut]

Meh...take off the charge then I'd care.

[Vold]

Wow, I'm so excited for a Prishe Statue instead of quite possibly the greatest item in the game, like ever, since the nexus cape which I never got because I couldn't be bothered to waste my dollars on those add ons. Getting a little tired of seeing newbies getting all the cool crap for joining up, while here I am, looking stupid. I mean I would kill to have auto RR, increased skills, movement speed and regen refresh effects from levels 1-30, arguably the worst levels for this game which generally decides whether a person stays or goes. Though to be fair I would prefer a high level version. Preferably through a quest that was rewarding for completing and not stupid easy just to avoid complaints.

Maybe it's premature whining. Odds are fairly decent the collection will have a little slip in it for the item and it not be locked to the reg codes. Easy way to make another 20 bucks off your current customers. I'll buy it just to have all the stuff on disc for the future, personally. I'll believe something more past Abyssea when I see it.


What's more, those who purchase the Ultimate Collection Abyssea Edition will be gifted with a very special in-game item: the Destrier Beret. This simply is a package that no fan will want to miss!That pretty much ensures we see the item if we buy the collection. This might be a hot item to buy! But whatever. In before "shouldn't have to buy" comments. I agree but there's no point in complaining beyond a crappy statue reward for current Abyssea content owners. I must have missed the feedback thread for rewards for buying all three add ons.

Personally I would have suggested an additional abyssite to lower the stone refresh to 4 hours. That'd been perfect, or something along the lines of that, that is Abyssea related. Maybe a kick ass atma. Ah well, wasted chance there huh.

[Fincat]

Has anyone heard if it applies to accounts already created for sure? I just started an alt myself...

[Arcon]

I just wish they could note down the latent effect like that on more items.

[kingfury]

At first glance I thought o'l Karby was trying to pull our legs cause the image looked a bit Photoshopped, but after watching the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9plSuH3fqA) on the official site, it's the real thing. ^^ Really cool Hat stat wise and hopefully a prelude of the possible high level skill enhancing gear to come.

Cutesy gear definitely has it's place in FFXI, but I can only hope that some hard core-looking, battle ready, shiny metal versions of such gear is in the pipes for all of us non-cutesy types!
Y'know something with sharp edges and all that :D Example : Combat Skill Helmet concept (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/BattleSkillHelmet-Web.jpg)

>< lol I just don't wanna yell "RAWR" after whoopin' up on a monster in a chocobo-style hat /stagger ^^' Something like this: RAWR? (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/BattleSkillHelmet-Web-2.jpg)

[Rambus]

Has anyone heard if it applies to accounts already created for sure? I just started an alt myself...

for the item? i am not sure if it is like ffxiv no you will not get the item

I did not buy the DL expands and abysseas for my other account due to cost, so ill have them now with this.

I wss trying to hold off buying abyssea for my self as well till something like this came out but game pressure had me to (unlike dw addons, i did not buy them)

[Toby]

You get the Cap from a Promotion Code, you get when you buy the FFXI Ultimate Edition Abyssea. You go on POL to Optional Services, then select Reward Code Registration, type in your Promotion Code you got. On next window you will have to choose the Character who get the Cap, and after that you have to Login and get your Cap from Festive Moogle in the starter Cities. Only 1 Cap you get per bought FFXI UE Abyssea.
All i know i got from the official Information Site FFXI Ultimate Edition Abyssea.

http://www.ff11europe.com/index_en.html

have fun!

[Unaisis]

Well i hope Prishe does a dance once and awhile, otherwise its useless.

SE does not like Dedicated players who pay full price for expansions XD!!!

Giving Newbs The sweet hat... Newbs who pay $19.99 <2/3rd abyssea cost> plus gets All expansions, add-ons And Abyssea...


::EDIT:::

PLUS THEY GET OUR PRISHE STATUE!!!!! Damnit SE ; ; cant you hold the Dedication of your long time players more Sacred? T.T;;;;;

[CrystalWeapon]

You get the Cap from a Promotion Code, you get when you buy the FFXI Ultimate Edition Abyssea. You go on POL to Optional Services, then select Reward Code Registration, type in your Promotion Code you got. On next window you will have to choose the Character who get the Cap, and after that you have to Login and get your Cap from Festive Moogle in the starter Cities. Only 1 Cap you get per bought FFXI UE Abyssea.
All i know i got from the official Information Site FFXI Ultimate Edition Abyssea.

http://www.ff11europe.com/index_en.html

have fun!

I'll buy it just for the hat.

>[ ^)> ~=kweh=~

[Sama]

SE has been doing these silly tactics which I find myself very upset especially the relic-emp weapon drama.

[Twille]

Not letting players who purchased Abyssea prior to the Abyssea Collection receive this special item would be a HUGE disrespect and insult.

[Unaisis]

It will sure teach me a lesson~

Do not buy expansions until they go for half price with an awesome item with it~

[CrystalWeapon]

Fairly sure they're going to make this item available to all players via a promo code.


This simply is a package that no fan will want to miss!


Implies that anyone not just new players can get the item via the new collectors edition.

[Unaisis]

I demand a hat with same stats but level 30-75 be given to the folks that bought abyssea for $10 each!!! lmao

[Rezeak]

Indeed kinda of a low ball by SE since.

Either was SE ; Reward loyal customers

So let get the straight SE u want me to buy nothing of yours until you reduce it's price and you give away something.... ok message received i'll wait 3-4 years till i buy 14 :)

[Runespider]

It's a collectors edition item made specially for this bundle, you really expect to get it free?

If they didn't bother to make the bundle the item would of never been made anyway and if people complain too much over such a silly item they probably won't bother to make anymore.

It's no different than buying all the star wars DVD's singularly and them making a bundle package a few years later giving some special item with it, it's a collectors edition bonus item. They are trying to make the game more pleasing for people coming back or trying it out.

[Fincat]

Thank you sir!

(This was in regards to the post about the item being a promotional code...)

[Camate]

I'd like to clarify some of your concerns regarding the special items.

The Destrier Beret which is included when you purchase FINAL FANTASY XI ULTIMATE COLLECTION ABYSSEA EDITION is in fact a separate registration code, so even current players who already have these expansions/add-ons can obtain it by purchasing the new collection.

Players that do not already own a Nexus Cape will also receive this when they purchase the new collection.

Every player that currently owns all three Abyssea add-ons or purchases them in the future (whether buy this new collection or separately) will be eligible to receive the Prishe statue.

[Coldbrand]

This is stupid. So even though I've bought all this content several times over I need to pay for effectively nothing to get the chocobo beret? I really hate this cycle. Why not put the money you put into making collections into making a boxed expansion?

[Twille]

I'd like to clarify some of your concerns regarding the special items.

The Destrier Beret which is included when you purchase FINAL FANTASY XI ULTIMATE COLLECTION ABYSSEA EDITION is in fact a separate registration code, so even current players who already have these expansions/add-ons can obtain it by purchasing the new collection.

Players that do not already own a Nexus Cape will also receive this when they purchase the new collection.

Every player that currently owns all three Abyssea add-ons or purchases them in the future (whether buy this new collection or separately) will be eligible to receive the Prishe statue.

I am personally insulted that I, having purchased all three Abyssea add-ons within the last 30 days for a total of $30, will not be able to receive the "Destrier Beret" without spending an additional $20 on an otherwise useless Collection.

EDIT: and a point of clarification, what is the "Prishe Statue" and what will it do?

[CrystalWeapon]

I'd like to clarify some of your concerns regarding the special items.

The Destrier Beret which is included when you purchase FINAL FANTASY XI ULTIMATE COLLECTION ABYSSEA EDITION is in fact a separate registration code, so even current players who already have these expansions/add-ons can obtain it by purchasing the new collection.

Players that do not already own a Nexus Cape will also receive this when they purchase the new collection.

Every player that currently owns all three Abyssea add-ons or purchases them in the future (whether buy this new collection or separately) will be eligible to receive the Prishe statue.

Thanks for the clarification. Sucks all my jobs are over 30, but I'll buy it just for the chocobo costume.

[Juri_Licious]

-reads level 30 and below-
fangasm ruined :(

[Unaisis]

i had a few friends come back 1-2 months ago and they bought all abyssea expansions. I feel like an Arse for pressuring them to get it... if i had known this... i would have told them to wait T.T;;;;;

[Krisan]

I'd like to clarify some of your concerns regarding the special items.

The Destrier Beret which is included when you purchase FINAL FANTASY XI ULTIMATE COLLECTION ABYSSEA EDITION is in fact a separate registration code, so even current players who already have these expansions/add-ons can obtain it by purchasing the new collection.

Players that do not already own a Nexus Cape will also receive this when they purchase the new collection.

Every player that currently owns all three Abyssea add-ons or purchases them in the future (whether buy this new collection or separately) will be eligible to receive the Prishe statue.
Thank you so much for clarifying this. You can be assured I am buying it then.



Want a summary? Fuck you SE.
It's a collectors edition item, there's nothing more to it than that. I'm not sure why a lot of you are upset at this, when I've heard repeatedly in this thread that most of you don't even have jobs below level 30 to use it on. I'm an oddball exception in that I was crazy and made a new character that can benefit from this. (And yes, blowing $20 on a hat is silly, but if it means I can get every job to 30 painlessly and keep my skills capped along the way, I'm doing it.)

Besides, I don't see anything wrong with them getting more money out of this game.. It's a very old game now, and any profit they can turn out of it is a good thing. Just look at the state of FFXIV and it's not hard to see that they're in an ugly place right now financially. (That game is just sitting there like a black hole, costing them money and going nowhere fast.)

[Sasukeuchiha]

That's pretty screwed up. It is obvious now that the collection is just a way to get current players to dish out another $20 to get stuff they already have. No thanks, not funding that massively disappointing failure that turned out to FFXIV by feeding you money for something like an in-game item that we already deserve for buying the content to begin with. You cannot honestly think that new players are going to arise just because you give them an item that you don't give to the current players do you?

Want a summary? Fuck you SE.

I agree and that all i feel my money is going to. FF14 suck and i do not want to support it ether.

[Nathos]

Yea.. Paid all full prices for every expansion and add-ons, I know the feeling.

But again, SWG (Star Wars Galaxies) Would make a new item every expansion/collection they released having 1 item for box and other for download versions, letting ppl buy both to have all items.. look for the good side, SE is just adding 1 item.

[Zyeriis]

Yea.. Paid all full prices for every expansion and add-ons, I know the feeling.

But again, SWG (Star Wars Galaxies) Would make a new item every expansion/collection they released having 1 item for box and other for download versions, letting ppl buy both to have all items.. look for the good side, SE is just adding 1 item.

Looks like i didn't play SWG for a reason. Good side? There isn't one, not paying for something I've already paid for. That would be a paradox.

[Nathos]

I was being sarcastic.. geez. It could be worse lol

[Zyeriis]

I was being sarcastic.. geez. It could be worse lol

Blind with Rage ^^

[Randwolf]

Yeah, having to buy the collection again to get the item is ridiculous. For those of us who purchased the game and each expansion as they came out, we have been paying S/E monthly fees all along. On top of the fact, most of us paid full price instead of the discounted price. Having to rebuy everything you've already paid full price for is not loyalty inspiring.

[bungiefan]

I'd like to clarify some of your concerns regarding the special items.

The Destrier Beret which is included when you purchase FINAL FANTASY XI ULTIMATE COLLECTION ABYSSEA EDITION is in fact a separate registration code, so even current players who already have these expansions/add-ons can obtain it by purchasing the new collection.

So you're punishing those of us that buy every expansion on release, by denying us the item unless we pay a total of $30 (all 3 Abyssea expansions = $30 plus $20 for the collection = $50, which doesn't add anything to our account except the beret) more than people who are getting these expansions the first time at a discount. This is backwards. The customers that have never stopped supporting you should be rewarded for doing so instead of new players and people that waited for expansions.

If we have everything, purchasing a new collection is a waste. You got our money earlier, you got more of it for each expansion, and you've gotten more from us in subscription fees. Now you want us to pay more just to get an item you are giving new players (and people that haven't spent more on expansions in the first place) at a major discount?

It's already annoying enough that your company has billing systems that make it hard for us to pay you if we want to (Japan not accepting non-Japanese cards anymore, NA only allowing 3D Secured cards, etc.), but now you are extorting your loyal customers compared to the new players?

I can see attaching bonus item registration codes to non-game merchandise, like the audio CDs and T-Shirts, but attaching it to redundant game packages is absurd. Abyssea has been practically required to level past 50 since it came out, so many of us bought all 3 parts as soon as each released. Making us buy it again to get such a good item is an insult.

Are you hurting that much from FFXIV that you have to abuse your FFXI player base like this?

[Patrik]

I'm kinda confused to why everyone is talking like the release of this item is SE saying "you HAVE to buy this." If you don't want to spend that $20, then don't and don't get the item. That $20 isn't just solely buying you an in game item, its for the game and all the expansions, hence why the item is geared towards new players. I like this idea because it may encourage more players to try the game, which i welcome. I may get this at some point just for collection sake, but if you can't even get a use out of it... why keep saying "screw you" to SE for "forcing" you to pay money?

if you find it so drastically important to have every special item that SE releases, then it would seem like you're the type of person that would pay $20 just for that item... just my 2 cents

[Twille]

I suggest we, as a player base express our discontent with this decision by demanding all players with the 3 Abyssea add-ons (regardless of how/when they were purchased) be given access to this new Beret. The Nexus Cape is attainable regardless of how the other three add-ons were purchased, the Destrier Beret should be the same, period. As paying customers I feel that we deserve nothing less.

[Krisan]

I still don't know why everyone is so upset, or why everyone feels so entitled to the hat for free. It's a collectors item, SE has had several of these over the years that not everyone (in fact, most people) could obtain. If anything, this item is better than most all of those combined, and for once it is something everyone can obtain for a reasonable price.

The fact we can get the item at all is pretty awesome in my opinion. Now if they made it so you could only use it on a new POL account, sure, I'd be pissed along with the rest of you. Because that there would be complete BS. But they didn't do that, they made it accessible to all of us whom can afford to buy the new collectors edition.

[Nathos]

I suggest we, as a player base express our discontent with this decision by demanding all players with the 3 Abyssea add-ons (regardless of how/when they were purchased) be given access to this new Beret. The Nexus Cape is attainable regardless of how the other three add-ons were purchased, the Destrier Beret should be the same, period. As paying customers I feel that we deserve nothing less.

They will tell you about the Prishe statue that everyone who got all Abyssea will get. Tho who get the new collection will get it also.

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/6524/detail.html

So basically it's an extra item they give to the collection and that's it. If you want to spend more spend, if not don't. No appreciation or anything for who got all stuff on release for full price, but it's how business work sadly.

[Misi]

Bummer. I will how ever pass it on to friends of mine who were considering reactivating and trying abyssea. At least they will get a nice item. Not paying an extra $20 for a hat, though.

[Chiibi]

Meh lots of players tossing their toys out the pushcart from the looks of this thread xD

[Patrik]

And one more thing i want to add, not to add fuel to the angry fire but... if you think you're entitled to this item because you payed for all the expansions and the monthly fee. You got what you payed for, $30 for all abyssea expansions, you got 3 battle add-ons, you did not buy some special hat. If you're saying you deserve it because you payed the full prices for everything and not the discounted price; you payed to get them soon, its just like all games, you can spend 50-60 dollars to get it right away, or wait and get it cheaper when its in less demand. Also, the monthly fee you pay, entitles you to play the game every month.

You're entitled to what you bought, there already IS an item we all get for having the 3 abyssea add-ons. The prishe statue, no its not some amazing armor piece, but it is pretty cool to a lot of people.

[Zyeriis]

Pathetic attempts to justify paying $20 for something we already have are pathetic. It is not our fault you are blinded by the shiny item and will cough up a ridiculous sum of money for it, while getting absolutely nothing else included because you already have it.

I'll repeat this one more time, so listen/read carefully: That item in no way will attract new players just because it isn't given to the current players. Let alone will those new players be able to fathom it's value...as they don't play the game. Adding the item exclusively to the box is SE attempting to get $20 from us for things we already have by throwing in a bullshit item for owning things we already own.

And yeah, if we don't want to spend the $20, we're not going to. That's the point?

I'm not going to argue with such naivety and stupidity any further than this. They are dangling a nice item on a fishing line, trying to hook an extra $20 out of the pond of cash that is FFXI to pay for FFXIV.

Again, fuck you SE.

[Randwolf]

Read my posts. I rarely side with the complainers. But, this time they have a very valid point. Add to that, that those who have been playing for a long time put up with a lot of crap that the developers finally fixed. Honestly, the $20 means nothing to me. It's the principle of the matter. Now, if S/E were to also give an item to just those who have been playing for 5+ years, I'm sure those who just started yesterday would complain. And, they would have far less reason to do so. But, hey, maybe during the Anniversary S/E is planning to do just that, reward long time players with an item that newer players can't obtain until they've played for several years.

[Chiibi]

I for one dont give a crap about the hat. Especially since its obviously made for players who dont have a ls already and have the "oh goddammit" task of getting to 30so they can play with the big boys and girls (even if it is leeching)

[bungiefan]

OK, so being an importer that started just after JP launch, If I've payed for all 9 years it will have been in May (it's actually been about 4 months less), and was paying the NA fee, I will have payed $1385.65 (counting the free first month) for only one charcter slot (I usually have 2-3), plus $65 for the game (~6800 yen in 2002), plus about $40 per disc expansion (four of them, remember conversion from Japanese prices), plus about $10 per add-on (six of them). So SE has gotten about $1670.65 from me.

Now my friend who wants to start the game on my server in May gets this item, and the entire game, and his first month, for $20, and I have to pay $20 more on top of my nearly $1700 for just the hat, as reward for my loyalty. How is this right? Isn't the low price of all 10 expansions the incentive for new players? Your past items from registration codes have been just furniture, or costume gear like the chocobo beret, and have been bundled with FanFest attendance or soundtrack CDs, or jewelry, which we could get use out of even without the in-game item. This is really useful, and is something we have no use for once the game dies, and many of us can't even use the redundant game registration code since we have all the expansions already.

Now you're just grabbing for our money.

[Chiibi]

...you want new players to spend as much as you did to play this game?

*Edit*
Which might i add was your own free will to do. nobody held a gun to your head.

[Krisan]

Pathetic attempts to justify paying $20 for something we already have are pathetic. It is not our fault you are blinded by the shiny item and will cough up a ridiculous sum of money for it, while getting absolutely nothing else included because you already have it.
There's nothing pathetic about this.
You're acting like a child here, and you're being incredibly ignorant on the subject.
Have you forgotten about this?: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Tidal_Talisman

That item was amazing, and damned if many people were ever able to get the stupid thing. You had to buy a cheap piece of jewelry (which wasn't in fact cheap at all, it cost a pretty penny and wasn't reasonable to afford as I recall) to get the reward code for the item. What's even more a kick in the ass about that item, was that the reward code had a limited time in which it could be redeemed. If you didn't use your code immediately, you were screwed. If you wanted to buy the code off someone else for less than the insane price of the jewelry - you didn't have very long to do so.

This item is arguably better, costs a hell of a lot less to obtain, and is being released with a discounted version of the full game. That is an incredible deal. And yes, furthermore you don't have to buy it and you don't want to buy it, you've made that painfully clear already.. So don't, go rage someplace else if a video game item for a measly $20 is going to ruin your day so much as this.

[Unaisis]

Well at least those newb collectors will get that inventory -1 Statue of Prishe!! Vengeance is Sweet indeed~

[Zyeriis]

There's nothing pathetic about this.
You're acting like a child here, and you're being incredibly ignorant on the subject.
Have you forgotten about this?: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Tidal_Talisman

That item was amazing, and damned if many people were ever able to get the stupid thing. You had to buy a cheap piece of jewelry (which wasn't in fact cheap at all, it cost a pretty penny and wasn't reasonable to afford as I recall) to get the reward code for the item. What's even more a kick in the ass about that item, was that the reward code had a limited time in which it could be redeemed. If you didn't use your code immediately, you were screwed. If you wanted to buy the code off someone else for less than the insane price of the jewelry - you didn't have very long to do so.

This item is arguably better, costs a hell of a lot less to obtain, and is being released with a discounted version of the full game. That is an incredible deal. And yes, furthermore you don't have to buy it and you don't want to buy it, you've made that painfully clear already.. So don't, go rage someplace else if a video game item for a measly $20 is going to ruin your day so much as this.

Pathetic non-related argument about an item I didn't buy, even though it was amazing. Just because you don't value your money highly enough doesn't mean other more sensible people are the same. Like I said, not going to argue with naivety. I'm not trying to convince you, so stop trying to convince me of something that stupid? I have every right to be mad about this obvious ploy to get more money out of people who already purchased everything. This isn't going to change, nor is the fact that they are wronging us.

[Randwolf]

...you want new players to spend as much as you did to play this game?

*Edit*
Which might i add was your own free will to do. nobody held a gun to your head.
Reading comprehension. Do you have it?

The poster's point was not that newbies should pay as much. But, was why those who have paid so much should have to pay more to get the item.

[Kimble]

If you have been playing for so long, id think all your jobs would at least be 30+.

[Daremo]

I'm going to withhold judgement until after Adventurer Appreciation. I've overestimated SE's willingness to screw their players over lately, and I think they've recently earned the benefit of the doubt. For now. Hopefully AA will hold this or something similar for long time patrons.

If not, I will be pissed. Oh yes. But I'm just going to put that on hold until all the facts are in.

[Unaisis]

I Say we should tip something over to vent our Wrath!!!!

[Alhanelem]

EDIT: and a point of clarification, what is the "Prishe Statue" and what will it do? It is a statue like the several others that currently exist that you can place in your moghouse. As to what it "does," it will count towards some moghancement, since it's a furnishing.

[Anewie]

That's pretty screwed up. It is obvious now that the collection is just a way to get current players to dish out another $20 to get stuff they already have. No thanks, not funding that massively disappointing failure that turned out to be FFXIV, any further than where my monthly subscription for FFXI is currently going, by feeding you money for something like an in-game item that we already deserve for buying the content to begin with. You cannot honestly think that new players are going to arise just because you give them an item that you don't give to the current players, do you?

Want a summary? Fuck you SE.

LMAO! You sir, win as a poster on these forums.

Tell em!

[bungiefan]

...you want new players to spend as much as you did to play this game?

*Edit*
Which might i add was your own free will to do. nobody held a gun to your head.

No, but giving away such a good item to new players, or people that delayed buying expansions for a sale price seems backwards. The sale price is already an incentive to new players. They're just trying to get those of us that have already paid them so much money to pay even more compared to someone just starting getting it at no additional cost. If anything, the statue and the beret should be reversed for how they are obtained. Tidal Talisman was the closest to this they've had in the past, but at least you had something to keep after the game dies.

[bungiefan]

If you have been playing for so long, id think all your jobs would at least be 30+.

I only get to play about 1 night a week, and my total playtime is only 130 days, with at least 14 of those days being asleep at the keyboard or AFK bazaaring in early Easter events. I got my first job to 75 a couple days before Abyssea was announced.

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Ragnarok/Bungiefan

That's my current character stats, and I have a lot of jobs I could use this hat with.

[Krisan]

Pathetic non-related argument about an item I didn't buy, even though it was amazing. Just because you don't value your money highly enough doesn't mean other more sensible people are the same. Like I said, not going to argue with naivety. I'm not trying to convince you, so stop trying to convince me of something that stupid? I have every right to be mad about this obvious ploy to get more money out of people who already purchased everything. This isn't going to change, nor is the fact that they are wronging us.
If all you can do is call people pathetic and suggest they don't value their own money, I'm just not going to bother anymore. Insulting people profusely because you weren't rewarded the item for free - or more importantly to you I guess, that the item costs money at all to obtain - is quite ignorant behavior. I'm sorry, but I don't appreciate being singled out while you rage over this because I just happen to be okay enough financially to be able to spend $20 on something that will make my play experience more enjoyable. (Where else is that money going to go? The monthly subscription itself is more than half that cost right there. So I'm paying a little over an extra month of playtime upfront for something that will significantly lessen the time it'll take to work on my jobs? Seems like an investment that'll at least even out to me. Plus I can probably then use it on my mules where it'll always be useful.)

[Felren]

Sigh, I'm honestly not surprised but yet again SE screws over its dedicated customers.

I don't understand why they'd be giving cool stuff like this to new players.... this game is so old the number of new players coming in is pretty small. Its the people that have been playing this game for years that have kept this game alive. It's not so much even the item that makes me angry, its more the way they keep chopping their addon game prices so quickly after their release that makes you feel completely ripped off for buying them as they came out.

Well the item doesn't make me that mad since its only below 30..

[Vold]

You know, to be fair about all this, the item is only level 1-30. Its use will last for only 1-30 and how long does it really take us to go from 1-30?

How many of us even need the skill up rate part of it? We're probably already capped from other jobs, depending on what the job is. Do we really need the movement speed? So on. It's nice perk stuff but it's not worth getting bent out of shape about. I think it's cool that SE does things like this. What I just don't like is the fact that if you've been playing Abyssea for the past year, you're being given a darn Prishe statue. We paid 30 bucks for the add ons. Here comes the collectors edition, and it's 20 bucks. And it gets a kick ass hat. Its uses are limited, but it's kick ass nonetheless. Much like the nexus cape. Much like all the other cool items SE has released in the past that not everyone can get a hold of because it wasn't 100% free gift to us in game. So whatever. I don't think I'll even bother getting the prishe statue. Now if it had been Shinryu.....

I suppose our reward for buying Abyssea was uh... Abyssea? Just sayin.

[Trollinthedungeon]

Where's my latent effect level 90 Hat SE?! We wanna run fast too. Why do we have to be so young on the game to have fun?! As someone said whining is counter productive; so fair enough SE, this isn't over!

I hope this helps new players out at least a little bit so they don't get so frustrated with the early levels, as we all did when we were tiny little noobs. So I am happy to see them not struggle so epicly boring as we did. But I also fear it will breed a new generation of Wow-esque players.

[Randwolf]

If you have been playing for so long, id think all your jobs would at least be 30+.

I raised all my jobs the old-fashioned way, no PL, No AF Burns, no key-whoring, when I had time off of work. So, you thought wrong. And, you probably think that everyone needs to key-whore their way to 90 or it just isn't fun.

[Kimble]

Even then, 1-30 doesn't take long in TODAYS game so while the item is pretty neat, are way more useful for people just starting (which is why its an item give to people just buying the game) I don't see why the big fuss over this and why people act like its such a slap in the face to people who have been playing a long time.

[Randwolf]

Even then, 1-30 doesn't take long in TODAYS game so while the item is pretty neat, are way more useful for people just starting (which is why its an item give to people just buying the game) I don't see why the big fuss over this and why people act like its such a slap in the face to people who have been playing a long time.

It's more a matter of principle. I'm sure many of the older posters on this thread don't have any jobs under 31. So, it's most likely they don't want it for the utility aspect but because a lot of people try to collect as many items and gear as possible in the game. Especially, unique items like this one. I immediately started hunting down the Jesters Cap when it first came out. I haven't used it once. Although, I like to idle in it. I like cool looking items. I still have my Mushroom Helm, my Rain Hat, and my Luna Subligar. Plus, a ton of other useless stuff. I only tossed my Nadrs when I just couldn't hold one more item and started on the items for my Empy. I do every holiday activity and have all the items. I swap them into my MH for each holiday.

It never bothered me when I first started and people had gotten previous items which would not be offered again, like the Rabbit Stick. Sure, I wanted one but they are almost never for sale.

But, again, it comes down to principle.

As far as the 1 - 30, you are correct, it doesn't take that long anymore. But, being in an end-game shell, I don't have much time between getting off of work and the start of activities. They run pretty late. So, I don't level after them either. The weekends are when I usually work on leveling. But, it isn't unusual for someone to need help on something. Or, I slowly work on crafting, also.

[annewandering]

Will it work on level synched? If so we still play around with it :D

[Daremo]

I don't see why the big fuss over this and why people act like its such a slap in the face to people who have been playing a long time.

I'll sum it up for you: Mere weeks before Adventurer Appreciation, long time Adventurers are feeling woefully unappreciated.

[Kaych]

I have no idea why SE did this o.o Its like a warning that "In the future, when a expantion/Add-on comes out, DONT BUY IT until the collectors addition comes out". It would be fine if all we got was "only" the Prishe statue, but giving a nice piece of item like this, only to the ones who buy a "Collecters addition" is just insulting... What where they thinking? >_>


Edit: Poor Dev trackersXD Prolly will have alot of reading coming up with all the disagreement ^_-

[Gotterdammerung]

/toss Prishe statue.

The Prishe Statue misses the SE.

/sh <me> /angry!

SE readies Insult.

Gotterdammerung is insulted for 9999 points of damage.

[Teraniku]

I understand everyone's frustration, but seriously They're trying to attract new players, which is why the hat only works from lvl 1-30. That's why it's included in this collection. I could use the hat, but I can use the $20 better someplace else. Lot's of wailing and gnashing of teeth in this thread, oh and an overblown sense of entitlement from some posters.

[Coldbrand]

Yeah, how dare we expect ethical business conduct from the person that gets our money on a regular basis. So indignant of us.

[Kaych]

Yeah, how dare we expect ethical business conduct from the person that gets our money on a regular basis. So indignant of us.

<3 Just <3 this ^_-

[Teraniku]

Yeah, how dare we expect ethical business conduct from the person that gets our money on a regular basis. So indignant of us.
How are they being unethical? We pay the sub fees, they keep the servers up, that's the deal. Ya the same unethical SE that waived a month of service fees because they had to shut the servers down for 2 weeks because of a national disaster. Not charging monthly fees for for XIV until they get the game up to snuff. Oh, that's right, it's only unethical when you don't get something you want. My bad.

[Coldbrand]

It's unethical when they give people something special for buying the same thing you did in a different package that would otherwise be virtually indistinguishable and basically is a not so subtle way asks their consumers to buy an exact copy of what they already have for reason. Stop being an apologist for bad business.

[Unaisis]

It's unethical when they give people something special for buying the same thing you did in a different package that would otherwise be virtually indistinguishable and basically is a not so subtle way asks their consumers to buy an exact copy of what they already have for reason. Stop being an apologist for bad business.

^ i think that this explains the feeling i got in my lower gut when i read about the new 11 bundle

[Kimble]

So I guess no one had fun with abyssea the last like, 9 months its been out? lol

[Randwolf]

If you want a prime example of how this works, you can see it in any business. Take any store that provides some sort of merchandise and has an established clientele. Grocery stores are good examples. They use frequent buyer cards. The longer you stay, the more points you have, the more things you can get. New customers still get the discounts. But, they don't have the points to get other things, such as special items or special discounts. But, they will if they stick around. There's a reason that most businesses will hand long-time customers with a problem to the manager immediately.

The goal of any business is to keep long-time customers happy. The longer they are customers, the happier you try and make them. Because, they have a pattern of buying at your store. Also, when the competition comes along, you don't want your long time customers thinking they could get treated just as well, if not better, at your competitors.

The rule of thumb for business is you don't want to make loyal customers feel like they are lesser valued than new customers. I buy all my dog stuff at a small 'mom and pop' style store. They know me by name. While the store is well-stocked, there are occasions when they don't have something. Even though I know I could probably get it immediately, and maybe cheaper, at one of the pet super stores, I simply have them order it and wait a couple more days. Now, if I felt I was just a number to them or, they left me hanging because a new customer walked in, I'd be shopping at the pet super store. Probably not the first time they did it. Since, I would assume from our long relationship that there must have been a reason. But, after a couple displays of that, I wouldn't shop there anymore. And, if the roles were reversed, I'm guessing the new customer wouldn't be back a second time.

So, while a pet store and a game are two different things, the bottom line in business is that your long-time customers should never feel second best. And, in fact, your long-time customers should feel they get treated a step above a brand new patron. Especially, when the item you're giving your new customer costs you nothing to provide.

[Kimble]

So, I guess, you all feel you should also be given any special event items that have been given for attending Vanfest, etc?

[Randwolf]

So I guess no one had fun with abyssea the last like, 9 months its been out? lol

You are so totally off-base it's ridiculous. Perhaps, if we had been given it for free and/or not charged to play, we really would have no basis for complaint. Instead, for nine months more than brand new people, we've been giving S/E money each month as well as paying full price for the add-ons.

[Kimble]

Honestly, everyone KNEW they would offer it up as a bundle at some point as they have always done in the past.

This is no different then what any other MMO does. Get over it, dont like it? Don't buy it or quit the game.

Really, the item isnt really all that amazing so I don't know why everyone is so up in arms about it.

[Lexin]

I find this offer to be complete and utter BS to all of us who have bought all of the content. Kinda feels like a FFXIV scenario where you target a new crowd but it doesn't work and in the end instead you should have thought about your loyal players rather then the people who will come and leave soon after.

I honestly think anyone who has bought all the Abyssea add-ons prior to this item being announced should get it.

And no I really have not had fun in Abyssea over the past 10 months.

[Lexin]

Honestly, everyone KNEW they would offer it up as a bundle at some point as they have always done in the past.

This is no different then what any other MMO does. Get over it, dont like it? Don't buy it or quit the game.

Really, the item isnt really all that amazing so I don't know why everyone is so up in arms about it.

Yes they did but they NEVER added anything extra. Last time with add-ons it was the cape which everyone got so it is only fair that everyone should get the items.

[Heady]

Me, Me, Me , I deserve this. I put my time in. Blah Blah Blah. Its like being in the unemployment office. lol

[Niyariko]

...The Destrier Beret which is included when you purchase FINAL FANTASY XI ULTIMATE COLLECTION ABYSSEA EDITION is in fact a separate registration code, so even current players who already have these expansions/add-ons can obtain it by purchasing the new collection....

I've lost interest reading the whole thread after what i've quoted above, but learn your lessons people, don't buy anything SE makes until they come out with a "ULTIMATE COLLECTION EDITION". That means any coming add-on or expansions, cause SE likes to screw their loyal customer who purchase their expansion/add-on on released date. If they want existing players to re-pay what they already got, maybe they should also throw in the 30 days free trial bonus AGAIN to existing players as well, then it will be fair. Maybe then, i'll consider re-purchacing it.

I guess even XIV won't be enjoyable until the "FFXIV ULTIMATE COLLECTION EDITION" is out, keep up the good work, SE. ;)

[Kimble]

I like how playing the content its self for the past 9 months means nothing, lol.

[Randwolf]

So I guess no one had fun with abyssea the last like, 9 months its been out? lol


I like how playing the content its self for the past 9 months means nothing, lol.
Do you plan to say anything worthwhile or just keep making the same post?

[Niyariko]

I like how playing the content its self for the past 9 months means nothing, lol.

Yes, and those 9 months wasn't free, I paid my monthly fees for the service. In fact, I paid for almost 8 years already!?

[Kimble]

If you really want to compare it to something, compare to a cable service package. To get new customers, they offer services packages at a cheap bundle package as well as getting premium channels (HBO, Showtime, etc) free for 3 months.

Now if you call every time they do this and demand you get this for free as well since you have been a loyal customer for years, etc, you usually wont get it. You have been getting what you paid for the whole time, which is a service they are offering.

[Randwolf]

If you really want to compare it to something, compare to a cable service package. To get new customers, they offer services packages at a cheap bundle package as well as getting premium channels (HBO, Showtime, etc) free for 3 months.

Now if you call every time they do this and demand you get this for free as well since you have been a loyal customer for years, etc, you usually wont get it. You have been getting what you paid for the whole time, which is a service they are offering.
Okay, let's compare it. First, I got that when I first got cable. It's available to any new customer. So, I got the item already. Secondly, I call the cable company periodically to see what they can offer me. They always say "I see you've been with us for quite a while. Here's what I'm going to do for you." So, your example continues to reinforce what we've been saying. Old customers already got what the new customers get. And, long time customers get extra perks. Have anymore bad examples?

[Henihhi]

Have you actually tried that Kimble? I did with comcast and they gave me the new deal when i said ok im going to satellite. Kind of off topic, but yes that does work lol.

[Kimble]

Well I guess if im wrong, call SE and say if they dont give you the hat, you will cancel your account and switch to another MMO.

[Niyariko]

But... but.. this is a FFXI forum, why would I wanna compare to cable plans!?

And before SE offering special items to ultimate collections, they should first roll out a loyal customer plan, where anyone account being activated for more than 3 consecutive years automatically gets up coming add-on/expansion in-game items or even monthly fee discount, and that discount increases 5% for every following years until cap at 20%. :D

[Randwolf]

Curious if anyone who can read Japanese has looked in their forums to see what kind of reaction, if any, they have had. They are a good gauge as to the direction this will go.

[Denabond]

Wow so much rage over a hat that is useless once your job gets past the lvl 30 mark. Yes the buffs on this item is crazy, but at the same time i really wonder why you guys want it so much. Is the enchantment to turn into a chocobo that important? In many ways, i see this as a way for people who joined FFXI late can actually lvl since all lvling below 30 is mostly solo now. Past 30, the buff from it wears, but you can do abyssea (although a new guy wouldn't be able to keywhore right away). Beyond that, its just -1 inventory space. If this is really that big of a deal, you might as well ask for free chocobo hats, moogle rods, moogle hats, and moogle shields too since they were only available to certain people.

[bungiefan]

How about having all the melee jobs to level, and no movement+ gear at all, and no weapon skill levels since I've been leveling mages the past 9 years?

[Denabond]

How about having all the melee jobs to level, and no movement+ gear at all, and no weapon skill levels since I've been leveling mages the past 9 years?
Then lvl it the old fashioned way. As you have said, you have played the game for 9 years. So you have a general idea on how to play a DD job (unless through out all your time on FFXI you didnt pt with a single melee DD even once). Its easier then ever to lvl those jobs now with FoV.

[Runespider]

The truth is producing a new package for XI and trying to sell it that does not make very good business sense, there aren't enough new players that will buy it to make it worthwhile. They need a way to make existing customers buy it too to boost sales figures, this allows them to not only make more money on XI but make it more viable to keep the game being sold in shops etc so that new/returning players get to see it on the shelves. Putting a stupid hat that people can be seen wearing will increase the sales by people rebuying the game when they already have it for the hat (collectors edition rules).

It's a cash grab basicallly but a totally legit one that most companies offer, if you don't like it don't buy it, the hat offers really nothing of value to most of us.

[Ophannus]

How would you sell a boxed expansion to PS2 users?

[Gennadi]

I find it funny a lot of people would post saying they wold give away 20 dollars to the Japan earthquake fund. At the same time when Se offers a complete collection with disks and manuals and a great sub 30 in game item that can probably be used level synch, all i see is:

Cry bitch complain steal extort ( hey martha call the lawyer we got a class action suit) You turds really are pathetic. Why dont you stop and turn your brains on for once and realize how ignorant and immature you really are when you start typing in this forum

[Neika]

I suggest we, as a player base express our discontent with this decision by demanding all players with the 3 Abyssea add-ons (regardless of how/when they were purchased) be given access to this new Beret. The Nexus Cape is attainable regardless of how the other three add-ons were purchased, the Destrier Beret should be the same, period. As paying customers I feel that we deserve nothing less.

I cannot agree with this more. Those of us who bought all the add ons at full price should also get this item.

[Karbuncle]

I'd like to remind you guys Camate isn't a Dev member (right?) he's just a Rep. He's basically the middle-man for us and the Dev team. Don't be angry with him, Need to be upset with SE themselves, as they are the ones who probably gave the okay to do this. So don't be like "WHAT? YOU'RE!" when its not his fault. direct your upset-ness to SE.

Secondly, Its not really about it being a collectors item or any of that, Its that its more the principle of the matter. We've been loyal customers for years, and they're now releasing another Vana-collection with the single best head armor for 1-30 gameplay, and we can't get it without pretty much spending 20$ on getting the in-game item (I.E pay for expansion/code to get it).

While on the other hand, Our reward for said "Purchasing of the Expansions" has been of course the content, but the Nexus Cape, and now the Prishe Statue, both of which the buyer of the Vana-Collection are also eligible for. I feel for the one guy who just coaxed his friends to buy all 3 Expansions for 30$, when not even a week later its released the entire game for 20$, including that hat lol.

I'd like to add, I think i was the only one who ever mentioned all my jobs being 40+ (I saw someone earlier mention this as "The majority of you" when I'm the only one who said it AFAIK), So i don't really mind if i don't see the beret as much as you guys, But its more the Principle of the matter. Loyal Customers getting boned. I would have killed for that hat years ago, But I know I'm in a minority when i say i have not 1 job that can use it. So thats why I'm on the side of "I think this should be obtainable to us Loyal players as well".


.... I'm sure they didn't expect this kind of shit-storm over a low level item :X, Kinda feel bad for them. But yah, Again, Don't take your anger out on our Rep, Its not his fault, he's the messenger. never shoot the messenger.

[Crocker]

If SE was selling an actual hat with a Key for a in game hat this would be a different story, but they aren't.

It shouldn't matter if its a level 1 hat that only gave a Flint Stone once every 24 hours we should be entitled to this item.
It doesn't matter if you think the hat is crap or it doesn't take long to level 1-30 its the principle behind it. Telling us we have to pay $20 for something we already own for an in game item that costs nothing is a huge slap to the face to all your long time loyal customers!

And saying you pay the monthly fee every month doesn't mean anything you pay that regardless they don't even have to give version updates if they don't want to.

We the Loyal Customers who bought each expansion before they were released shouldn't get screwed out of an item like this. We paid FULL price for it and deserve the free item that costs nothing since its virtual goods.

[Mirage]

To Camate

I understand that community reps have to make the information they've got sound as good as they can, and that it probably aren't you who are deciding how things like bonus items and rewards work, but that statement you made earlier, it really sounds bad no matter how you could have said it.

I hope you bring the concerns the players in this thread have voiced to the people in charge, and see if you can make them change their mind. After all, Camate, don't you think it is a bit backwards that the players who have supported the game the most should have to pay even more to get an item than people who haven't?

[Zeroth]

It feels more insulting to be handing out the free statue, which does absolutely nothing, and at the same time not the beret as well.

[Joslyn]

It seems that Everyone really feels that SE pulled the wool over their eyes when they announced that this Item would be packed in the new collection only and not be available to those like Me that purchased everything, Now even though the hat code is separate from the reg code It still feels like SE doesn't think its long time players would like to have this item, personally it would be nice if SE gives us this item for free or even maybe let us purchase this item separately for a small fee,even to go as far as everyone that purchase's one the proceeds go to the Earthquake relief fund, hell i'd like to get some of the past items that were given away at special events, I'd be willing to pay a couple of bucks to get the moogle shield or even the talisman teleporter body piece if they offered it like they do when a new add on comes out.

[Runespider]

They should of made this a ring, people are only whining cause it's a pretty hat they want to walk around in at 90.

[Tsuneo]

I think people are missing the true message of the majority of the complaints. All I hear about is the beret, but take the beret out of the situation completely. This isn't about a piece of gear it's about the fact that we bought everything that comes with with the collection, but are excluded from the additional item regardless of what the item actually is. SE would've been better off just finding a different way to sell the beret instead of slapping people in the face. Not that I actually care about the item, but it's a matter of principle.

[Runespider]

I think people are missing the true message of the majority of the complaints. All I hear about is the beret, but take the beret out of the situation completely. This isn't about a piece of gear it's about the fact that we bought everything that comes with with the collection, but are excluded from the additional item regardless of what the item actually is. SE would've been better off just finding a different way to sell the beret instead of slapping people in the face. Not that I actually care about the item, but it's a matter of principle.

The beret was added the way it was as an insentive for people that already have the full game content to buy it again(as a collectors edition), if they don't do this they can't justify making a repackaged FFXI disk set. There are not enough new buyers to justify it's creation costs or place in a stores shelf, if this had been a unrestricted item then everyone would agree but is a level 30 buff armor...you can get 30 in a day spamming fov. Who cares.

[Arcon]

never shoot the messenger.

Is this Sparta? Tread lightly..

I wanted to clarify a few things people haven't mentioned yet (or at least I didn't see). It's not about it being useless (or useful) to many people. Me, as a collector, I simply want to have this item. It's the same with Atma. So many of them are utterly useless, but gotta have them all.

And you can't compare it to things like the Tidal Talisman, because there you bought the actual item, the ingame item was just a bonus. I know that's not how most people saw it, I bought it as well and it was for the ingame item only. And I think SE knew it was going to be like that too. And it sucked. Even that sucked, big time, as did the Mog Satchel, although those still had a moral justification. This is a scam. You get absolutely nothing, you simply buy an ingame item for actual cash. It's called real money trading and can get your account suspended. You know, when it's done by someone other than SE.

Also, I don't believe this is targeted at new players. This item is supposed to make the transition into Abyssea content easier. Why would only new players profit from that? How many new players are there? It would be interesting to see how many actual new players buy this, compared to how many old players do. Even though a major part of the old playerbase is outraged I this, I assure you, they will also be a major part of the people buying this game. The other big part will be returning players (although ironally, most returning players already came back after Abyssea, thus had the new expansions already). And yes, maybe there'll be a few new players buying this too.

Several people have said "it's simple, if you don't wanna pay, don't do it and don't get the item", it's not as simple as that. That, in fact, is unrelated to anything at all. It's a tautology, not an argument. The issue here is with how SE treats their loyal playerbase. I don't think I should have more than others because I played (and paid) for the better part of a decade. But I also don't think they should have more than me, which is what this little exercise (officially) intends to do.

And what about tha VanaFest argument? Is it unfair that they have things I can't get? Yes, I'm still pissed off about that. Why can't I obtain a Moogle Cap? Or a Nomad Moogle Shield? I still want those and I'd do almost anything for them. However, being a student I can't afford to fly to VanaFest from Germany. And that one time I didn't have internet access for a month and thought I'd use that time to hang back and relax I miss the Moogle Cap sales.

I'm not saying those people shouldn't get anything special. But does it have to be an ingame item? One of the things I liked most about FF (back when I started) was that SE didn't promote purchasing ingame goods with real money, like many other online games did. A friend tried to get me hooked on Maple Story, but precisely for that reason I didn't join him. Now I have to go through the same thing in my favorite MMORPG? I'm disappointed.

There's two possible ways to look at this:
Either SE really believe it's something their most loyal players shouldn't have (the players who bought everything when it first came out) and they're being unfair, or they know those people will want it regardless and will spend extra money on it, making this a scam.

A solution would be simple:
Give them the item first, let us obtain it later, through ingame means. This could (and should) apply that to VanaFest items and other ingame content as well. Nothing in the game should be blocked to people in any way. If you wanna give those people something exclusive, try merchandise and other content outside of the game.

[viion]

Ah such greedy fans

"oh we should get it free because we've been paying all this time!" lol

Life dont work like that and SE dont care about your loyalty, only your munies.

[Runespider]

Life dont work like that and SE dont care about your loyalty, only your munies.

Even mroe now that 14 was a huge financial flop, you can only be scammed if you think you must have this silly hat. Don't be stupid and it's not a problem.

[Chamaan]

EDIT: and a point of clarification, what is the "Prishe Statue" and what will it do?

It'll give me something to stare at in my moghouse that isn't my homely Moogle. I hate that guy.

[Chiibi]

Reading comprehension. Do you have it?

The poster's point was not that newbies should pay as much. But, was why those who have paid so much should have to pay more to get the item.

So you pretty much feel entitled to this item because what? you've been playing for years... Grow up seriously.

[Tsuneo]

So you pretty much feel entitled to this item because what? you've been playing for years... Grow up seriously.
I don't see why we shouldn't be entitled to it. The beret comes in addition to the content, yet we already own the content. How exactly can you justify paying $20 for a collection that I already have all the content from. No argument is gonna be relevant to this situation because no other item was bundled with content that everyone already bought.

I have yet to see a person who says that having to rebuy the content is fair give decent reason. Are any of you even capable of providing a reason or are you convinced that your opinion is fact?

[Kaych]

Its wierd that SE hasnt made any comments on this yet. Usually they are quick to give an answer when this many people posts on a thread O.o?

[Karbuncle]

They commented about 8 pages back.

[Randwolf]

First, I'm not mad at nor directing any of this at our Community Rep.

Second, this is really more about the principle than the item. Or more precisely, how you get the item. Up until now, there have been a lot of items you could get through means other than in-game quests or activities. I bought the Vana'diel Collection and have the Harpsichord. I went back and forth on the jewelry item and ended up not purchasing it. Even though, I wish I had now. The security token was an easy buy since it added another layer of security. The conventions are never near me. So, I will probably never get one of those items. But, I don't complain. Even though, I could, since it does really suck that for some people, they just need to attend a local convention while for others it would involve airfare and lodging. Anyway, I know there are other items they have offered. But, each time it involved buying something I had not already bought.

This time, if I want the item, I need to buy something that I already have 3 sets of. I have this game on all 3 systems. To me, asking people to buy something they already own to get a give-away item appears just plain greedy. I think it's for this reason, a lot of people are upset. If it had been attached to something they didn't already own, I think you would see a lot less complaining.

For the most part, I've gotten all the in-game items I could. For things, like convention items, the amount of money and time it would take for me to get them is just unrealistic. But, really, to ask people to re-buy things they already have just to get an item you are giving away is pure, obvious piggishness.

[Vivik]

If you own the content already buy it for the Item. If you don't own the content great. For those of you thinking SE owes you anything; you're paying for a service in which said service expires at the end of each month. SE does not owe you a damn thing. Get over yourselves...

[Tsuneo]

If you own the content already buy it for the Item. If you don't own the content great. For those of you thinking SE owes you anything; you're paying for a service in which said service expires at the end of each month. SE does not owe you a damn thing. Get over yourselves...
Yet another post that says the same thing that was said 100 times already.

[Chiibi]

I don't see why we shouldn't be entitled to it.

Thats exactly like saying "i speak english so im entitled to an A+ on my english exam!" Suck less and just accept we get a statue of one of the greatest elvaans EVER!

[Vivik]

Yet another post that says the same thing that was said 100 times already.

and yet people are so thick as to not understand the simplicity of it...

[Tsuneo]

and yet people are so thick as to not understand the simplicity of it...
The simple answer is SE just wants to get sales on a collection no one would buy otherwise. I'm not demanding the hat, and I don't even want it. I just think the tactics in use for people who do want one and already own all the content are pretty lousy.

[Karbuncle]

Maybe those who use the world "Entitled" Simply take it too far. But i feel it would be fair if we happened to get them. I wonder if people saying "We get prishe statue" Realize people who buy the Vana Collection also receive this item?

I don't think theres a sense of Entitlement behind my responses, But i do feel the Fair thing would have been to give the players who bought all 3 Expansions when they came out this item as well. it would have been "Hey new people, Join today for 20$, Get this awesome item too!" and "Hey Loyal Customers, You can have it too, Thanks for sticking with us and buying all the expansions for about 6x the cost of this Collection over the years!"

In my view, Is more of a courtesy than an Entitlement. We definitely aren't entitled to anything, SE has taught us that well over the years, But to limit the item to new players, or players who spend (lets admit it) 20$ for an in-game hat seems a little under-handed.

Its their right, I have no qualms otherwise, My feelings is that it seems kinda dirty to their Loyal Customers. you guys can sheep behind "HUR HUR ENTITLE NUTHIN", thats your peragative, But its absolutely stupid to insist those people who feel they should get the item too for purchasing all the expansions, and not be forced to toss over 20$ Additionally for said item are "Thick headed".

[Vivik]

The simple answer is SE just wants to get sales on a collection no one would buy otherwise. I'm not demanding the hat, and I don't even want it. I just think the tactics in use for people who do want one and already own all the content are pretty lousy.

Actually, the simple answer is SE is releasing a new collection that comes with a free gift. IF you don't need it, don't buy it.

[Randwolf]

Actually, the simple answer is SE is releasing a new collection that comes with a free gift. IF you don't need it, don't buy it.
The bottom line is I will buy the collection to get the item. I knew that from my first post. That amount of money is nothing to me as I am sure it is nothing to a lot of the people posting. What's funny is that the only systems I need the collection on are either the PS2 or the 360. Since, I've lost a disk/code on each system and S/E screwed up my systems with the download issue. Really, the only thing that gets affected by this is my view of S/E.

[Arcon]

Actually, the simple answer is SE is releasing a new collection that comes with a free gift. IF you don't need it, don't buy it.

And you still miss the point behind this. The point people are trying to make is that ingame items shouldn't have to come with such a price tag (or any price tag at all for that matter), because that's all this is. This is clearly targeted at old players who feel they want that item, regardless of how good or bad it is. The fact that SE markets this as a bonus to new players (which is unfair to begin with) is disrespectful to the playerbase, because everyone knows what this is really about. All SE is doing here is real money trade. And that was one of the most attractive features of FFXI when I started.

As I previously posted:

There's two possible ways to look at this:
Either SE really believe it's something their most loyal players shouldn't have (the players who bought everything when it first came out) and they're being unfair, or they know those people will want it regardless and will spend extra money on it, making this a scam.

[Vivik]

And you still miss the point behind this. The point people are trying to make is that ingame items shouldn't have to come with such a price tag (or any price tag at all for that matter), because that's all this is. This is clearly targeted at old players who feel they want that item, regardless of how good or bad it is. The fact that SE markets this as a bonus to new players (which is unfair to begin with) is disrespectful to the playerbase, because everyone knows what this is really about. All SE is doing here is real money trade. And that was one of the most attractive features of FFXI when I started.

As I previously posted:

Oh I get exactly what SE is doing. They released a new collection with a BONUS gift. You're not paying for the gift, you're paying for the collection of expansions. Read into what they are doing however you want. Whine and carry on about it if you want. Either way, the fact remains, it's a bonus. I think the sense of self-entitlement in this thread is way more appalling than anything SE could ever do.

[Tsuneo]

Oh I get exactly what SE is doing. They released a new collection with a BONUS gift. You're not paying for the gift, you're paying for the collection of expansions. Read into what they are doing however you want. Whine and carry on about it if you want. Either way, the fact remains, it's a bonus. I think the sense of self-entitlement in this thread is way more appalling than anything SE could ever do.
Majority will buy it just for the gift because we already bought the "collection" through the past years.

[Vivik]

Majority will buy it just for the gift because we already bought the "collection" through the past years.

Oh I'm sure they will. Hell, I'm gonna buy it (granted I need the abyssea xpacks for a mule). If I did not need the xpacks, I would not purchase it though. I mean really, who has jobs under 30 they plan to level anymore anyway?

[Arcon]

Oh I'm sure they will. Hell, I'm gonna buy it (granted I need the abyssea xpacks for a mule). If I did not need the xpacks, I would not purchase it though. I mean really, who has jobs under 30 they plan to level anymore anyway?

Now you're assuming something that people have explained was wrong a few times already. Not everyone is in it for the stats (although plenty of people, including me, still would profit from it). Some people just want the item to wear, others just want it for the collection value. And no, just because it's a collection it shouldn't require real money. Stuff in a game is supposed to be attained through effort in a game. Many games trampeled on this concept, SE never did until a while ago (was Tidal Talisman the first item? Not sure). As I said, it was one of the things many people found attractive about the game, and while it's still better than many games out there, I still think it's a step in the wrong direction. I don't care about the money at all, it's the principle that matters.

[Fincat]

I'll be buying the collection for the item. If I didn't have a mule that needed the expansions, I would still be buying it for the item. Done it before, I'll do it again. Yay cute hat for my mule!

I didn't buy the silly piano CD full of music for the sheer enjoyment of listening to the same shit I can hear day in and day out, or play myself. I bought it for the cool harpsichord. I didn't buy a token for "added security," I bought it for the satchel. In this case, you're paying $20 for cute and some cool stuff if you have jobs under 30.

It's a marketing ploy, companies do it all the time. Buy it or don't!

I'm curious if people would be as outraged if SE just offered the in-game item for $20, with no attachment to anything else. I think they would make a mint on cool in-game items to buy for RL money and never understood why they don't do it more often. /shrug

[Vivik]

Now you're assuming something that people have explained was wrong a few times already. Not everyone is in it for the stats (although plenty of people, including me, still would profit from it). Some people just want the item to wear, others just want it for the collection value. And no, just because it's a collection it shouldn't require real money.

So, you're saying I should be able to get the collection free for my mule? I'm cool with that too.

[Vivik]

I'm curious if people would be as outraged if SE just offered the in-game item for $20, with no attachment to anything else. I think they would make a mint on cool in-game items to buy for RL money and never understood why they don't do it more often. /shrug

I can bet the majority of them would have it the first day, adorning it in Port Jeuno for everyone to see.

[Arcon]

I'm curious if people would be as outraged if SE just offered the in-game item for $20, with no attachment to anything else.

Not quite as much, because at least it wouldn't be disrespectful. It would still be RMT and I would still condemn it.


So, you're saying I should be able to get the collection free for my mule? I'm cool with that too.

No, that's not what I'm saying.

[Randwolf]

I'm curious if people would be as outraged if SE just offered the in-game item for $20, with no attachment to anything else. I think they would make a mint on cool in-game items to buy for RL money and never understood why they don't do it more often. /shrug
Actually, that is right on. I think it's more the connection that it's attached to something I have bought 3 times over. Add to that, that I do need the replacements for PS2 and 360 because SE screwed that up with their poor download protocol and I am missing either a disk or, in the case of the PS2, the CD-Rom has ceased to function. But, it's only attached to the PC system, which is the only one of my 3 systems that doesn't need it again.

[Ryce]

Wow... half the people on this forum are nuts. SE created a new item to help NEW players deal with the endgame-heavy state of FFXI... and you feel ENTITLED to it? Who the hell do you think you are? There was no clause in the Terms of Service when you signed up that said "Any and all content we produce for sale if the future is included in your current monthly subscription". It's a NEW PRODUCT.

Be happy that this new package will be appealing to new and returning players - bringing new life to our servers and new opportunities to meet people. Be happy that if this item is something you REALLY want - it's now available for purchase. Be appreciative of the fact that SE and the new FFXI dev team ARE STILL WORKING ON A 9-YEAR-OLD GAME and looking for ways (like this) to entice new players to join our community.

Also, here's a free Prishe statue. ^^

[Runespider]

The fact that SE markets this as a bonus to new players (which is unfair to begin with) is disrespectful to the playerbase, because everyone knows what this is really about. All SE is doing here is real money trade. And that was one of the most attractive features of FFXI when I started.

FFXI is not what it was, to Square it's simply a cashcow now. Their main focus is still going to be on FFXIV. To this end we will probably see more RMT for ingame items and stuff like this, you need to realise where we are in time with this game and how much money Square need to support 14.

Either buy the pack for the ingame item or don't.

[Randwolf]

FFXI is not what it was, to Square it's simply a cashcow now. Their main focus is still going to be on FFXIV. To this end we will probably see more RMT for ingame items and stuff like this, you need to realise where we are in time with this game and how much money Square need to support 14.

Either buy the pack for the ingame item or don't.
I will be interested to see what happens with XIV. I have no plans whatsoever to play. This is the only MMORPG I will ever play. And, when I'm done with it, I'm done with MMORPG's. The launch of XIV was seriously bungled. So, that undoubtedly lost them some players. I'll be watching the re-launch to see their strategy for attracting people to the game.

[Chiibi]

*Headesk!*
This is really silly. So much crying over silliness. So this is the state of our playerbase? Whiny kids who feel like they're entitled to everything just because they're paying for a service they've already been getting.

[Tsuneo]

*Headesk!*
This is really silly. So much crying over silliness. So this is the state of our playerbase? Whiny kids who feel like they're entitled to everything just because they're paying for a service they've already been getting.
Whining about whining

[Arcon]

*Headesk!*
This is really silly. So much crying over silliness. So this is the state of our playerbase? Whiny kids who feel like they're entitled to everything just because they're paying for a service they've already been getting.

I don't feel entitled to it, and I think most people here don't, I don't know why people keep saying that. This is simply about fairness, loyalty not being rewarded, but the opposite, being punished for it and a central aspect of the game SE is messing with here.

[Randwolf]

*Headesk!*
This is really silly. So much crying over silliness. So this is the state of our playerbase? Whiny kids who feel like they're entitled to everything just because they're paying for a service they've already been getting.

This is where I think the point is missed on some people posting here. I don't disagree with the entitlement. The reality is the majority of players feel entitled. Because, quite frankly, the only thing S/E really has to provide is service to fix any bugs in the content. They don't have to add updates. They aren't required to create add-on's. Really, once you buy the original content, they could be finished with you. So, I agree with you on that point.

The difference is how some people interact with S/E. Not everyone looks at it as pure business. A lot of people believe they have a relationship with S/E. They feel they've been there through the bad times and did not waiver in their support. I still remember calling GM's on obvious RMT in the game and S/E's script was "We understand that making claims on NM's is difficult." Thus, saying it was all in your head. It took them years to admit the problem. And only after the great inflation caused by the purchase of gil was affecting their business. There were quite a few people who quit during that period. There are a lot of other things that S/E has corrected since Abyssea and most the long-time players have been saying there was a problem all along. Personally, I donated to the Japanese relief effort through S/E not for the item but because I felt I had a relationship with S/E and thus a Japanese company. I went and saw that horrible Final Fantasy movie. Not because I wanted to see the movie but because it was something S/E put out. If I didn't care about S/E, there is no way I would have paid money to see that movie. Again, it was horrible.

So, yes, it probably is a sense of entitlement. What a lot of the posters are saying is that it is not a sense of entitlement based on purely paying a monthly fee as well as having bought the content at full price. It's the sense, albeit a false one as this move reinforces, that there is a relationship between S/E and long-time players which is not purely business. Again, not a realistic belief, since on the cognitive level, we all know businesses care about nothing but profit. But, people still want to believe that if they've been a long-time customer, that a company is appreciative of that fact.

[Glamdring]

It's a collectors edition item made specially for this bundle, you really expect to get it free?

If they didn't bother to make the bundle the item would of never been made anyway and if people complain too much over such a silly item they probably won't bother to make anymore.

It's no different than buying all the star wars DVD's singularly and them making a bundle package a few years later giving some special item with it, it's a collectors edition bonus item. They are trying to make the game more pleasing for people coming back or trying it out.

You know, I might actually buy this thing. I've bought every expansion on this game within a week of its release over the years meaning I have multiple discs and a HUGE update download everytime my computer has a fail and I have to reinstall, about every 18 months. Getting a more current version that won't require me to take essentially 1 full day RL to put the game back in might just be worth it; especially with no plans on the horizon for new expansions.

And I could care less about the hat.

[AyinDygra]

The issue here is much broader than this one item that people think is cute, or wanting the nice bonuses on it.

There are two converging trends that have met at this point.
1) This is a subscription based game. We expect content in the game to be within reach of everyone paying said subscription. Expansions are the only fair and acceptable money-based gateways in such a payment system.


There are free to play games that cost no monthly subscription or box price to install the game. These games make all their money based on fashion items, consumables to enhance gameplay, and gear that offers benefits other players do not have access to unless they buy them.


When a subscription based game tries to mix these business models, it becomes a sort of "double-dip" profiteering scheme that makes people rightfully angry, especially since FFXI has been so against RMT type activities, only to engage in something similar to it themselves (allowing money to give players an advantage within the game; be it teleports or fashion items, or boosts to low levels - in a game where everybody can level every job, and remains in those "low levels" once for each job).

2) The second issue is a horrible trend in the view of customer loyalty. Releasing episodic content patches in tiny chunks and that cost more separate than they do in a bundle when the "set" is completed, and on top of that, after reducing the price, bundling it with all previous content, AND giving people who buy this compilation a bonus item... all for less money... and then expect long time players who own the "sold item" already (bundled content) to buy the bonus item to justify the cost of producing the compilation.



I like having all the installation disks compacted and up to date with patches, that's fine. The price point may also be where SE wants it to attract new players... that's fine. I get it; SE wants the barrier to entry lowered so people pick up the game and continue their subscriptions. It's a solid business strategy.

The point here is then to give the bonus item to the people who ALREADY PAID MORE for the existing content as it was released in smaller bits over time.


In the future, I am going to be much less likely to purchase these "epsidodic content patches" (I refuse to call them expansions at this point), until each set is completed, reduced in price, bundled with previous updates and expansions, and given a nice bonus item. -- Is this what SE wants? -- No, I don't think so. If they don't, they had better think harder about these marketing decisions.

[Kaych]

I'm curious if people would be as outraged if SE just offered the in-game item for $20, with no attachment to anything else. I think they would make a mint on cool in-game items to buy for RL money and never understood why they don't do it more often. /shrug

When the three first add-ons came out, poeple felt that they finished them too fast and that they "payed" for the augment item. SE stated that this was never theyr intention. They dont want people to pay for ingame items. The only exception to this was the chip some of us bought to improve the security of the game. A bonus for this was the Mog Satchel.

So after this statement SE made, I am disapointed with them that they say now "You can get the item by buying the Abyssea add-on series again...."


I'll try and find a link in the intervju they said this. Hate when people make statements and dont back theyr stories up^_-

[Kimble]

I don't understand why people think SE is doing this to fund FFXIV. First of all, do you think SE is so poor they cant support FXIV till they get the bugs worked out? I highly doubt they are trying to nickle and dime their XI users to pay for XIV.

[Fincat]

When the three first add-ons came out, poeple felt that they finished them too fast and that they "payed" for the augment item. SE stated that this was never theyr intention. They dont want people to pay for ingame items. The only exception to this was the chip some of us bought to improve the security of the game. A bonus for this was the Mog Satchel.

So after this statement SE made, I am disapointed with them that they say now "You can get the item by buying the Abyssea add-on series again...."


I'll try and find a link in the intervju they said this. Hate when people make statements and dont back theyr stories up^_-

Back my "story" up with what? What story?

[Randwolf]

I don't understand why people think SE is doing this to fund FFXIV. First of all, do you think SE is so poor they cant support FXIV till they get the bugs worked out? I highly doubt they are trying to nickle and dime their XI users to pay for XIV.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/charts/charts.asp?ticker=9684:JP (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/charts/charts.asp?ticker=9684:JP)
I'm no finance specialist. But, it doesn't seem like a positive ledger to me. I'm sure someone with knowledge of these things could certainly interpret it better.

[Seriha]

+1 voice feeling existing players should be given the hat.

[Kaych]

Back my "story" up with what? What story?

If someone says "Its cos of PS2 limitations!" or "We cant get this because SE dont like it", then its nice to have a link to what SE actually said so we know that the person isnt making it up.

Thats why when I made a statement that SE said that they dont want people to feel like they are "buying" an ingame item with real money, I wanted to add a link to prove my story ^_-

[Fincat]

Ah, I see. I thought you were referring to my post, thanks for clarifying.

[Kaiichi]

Honestly I don't feel strongly eather way. "It's a new hat! Yey I'm a Chocobo now! Aww everyone else is a chocobo too... -1 Item space. /toss. But I also agree with the hole loyalty issue. Truth be told I fell away from FFXI for a bit due to /kaiichi get marred. /kaiichi has kids. /kaiichi's children need food. HOWEVER! I can see where you all are comming from. But here's an Idea, can SE have a place on it's sight for all past and present special downloads that we can get by paying a small fee for? I mean i didn't even know about the twitter thing till it was like a mounth over and i can barly get my kids to magic mountion let alone japan for a fan fest.

[Mirage]

I don't understand why people think SE is doing this to fund FFXIV. First of all, do you think SE is so poor they cant support FXIV till they get the bugs worked out? I highly doubt they are trying to nickle and dime their XI users to pay for XIV.
First of all, yes I do. Second of all, why did you say first of all when there was no second of all?

Of course, I don't think they are *really* poor, but I can see that they don't have unlimited resources with the development of FF14 taking an enormous amount of time and money, and at the same time, some games of theirs have not sold quite as well as expected.

I also think you are underestimating the amount of resources needed to get FF14 as huge as SE had envisioned. I seriously believe that FF14 could end up being shut down permanently within a year or two, which would definitely make a very solid dent in SE's economy.

Another reason why at least I think FF11's subscription incomes are partially tunnelled to the development FF14 is that while FF11 isn't free to maintain, the game did pay itself off many years ago and has been a continuous cash cow ever since. assuming 100k paying subscribers(i think we're still around that), FF11 should generate a yearly revenue of at least 15 million dollars. I don't know how much maintaining FF11 costs, but I think it's far from that much.

[Kaych]

First of all, yes I do. Second of all, why did you say first of all when there was no second of all?


Lol, awsome XD

[bungiefan]

Ok, not counting the monthly fees, if we bought all the expansions individually, say at $30 each for the first four (so $120 total there), plus another $60 for the add-ons (up to $180 now), plus $60 for the core game, we've spent $240 or so on the game software registration codes to unlock the content. Now they want $20 more to give us the same thing, plus a bonus item, which someone just joining the game gets for $20 total instead of $260 total.

Yes, some of the monthly fees and game sales go to paying for support for this game, but some of it also goes to profit. We've been giving them steady profit for years, we've been loyal to them. People don't want to purchase from a company or work for a company that isn't loyal to them in return. A money grab like this isn't viewed as a return of loyalty.

[Kimble]

People tend to forget XI had a lot of the same problems that XIV had when it came out and took a while for it to finally be up in running in the way it is. NA players arent aware of it because it came out in JP for around a year before it came over seas. There was a while when it was believed XI would be shut down before it ever made it to the USA.

[bungiefan]

http://www.jpbutton.com/?cat=20

FFXI came out May 16th 2002 in Japan, and sometime in late October 2003 in North America. That link has translations of the update notes from before the American release. NMs weren't even implemented at launch. They also had such server instability that they gave the first 2 months free for a long time.

Yes, it was feared the game would shut down because SquareSoft wanted the PS2 version to be the first release in all countries, since the main novelty of FFXI was that is was the first true MMO on a console, but SCEA wouldn't release the required hardware. Financial pressure finally made them release the PC version first. The Japanese player base alone wasn't quite enough, even with importers, to fund the entire costs of the game, a foreign release was needed.

[Sama]

I'd like to clarify some of your concerns regarding the special items.

The Destrier Beret which is included when you purchase FINAL FANTASY XI ULTIMATE COLLECTION ABYSSEA EDITION is in fact a separate registration code, so even current players who already have these expansions/add-ons can obtain it by purchasing the new collection.

Players that do not already own a Nexus Cape will also receive this when they purchase the new collection.

Every player that currently owns all three Abyssea add-ons or purchases them in the future (whether buy this new collection or separately) will be eligible to receive the Prishe statue.

This is making us look like a fooool... Not only that the price dropped for all three expansion and the gift is not for those who paid full price...

[Charismatic]

UGH! I bought the last Abyssea expansion for my new alt a week ago. I wish I'd have known this was coming.
The only upside to this is the fact that I can buy it and save 10 dollars on those failed-ass mini-expansions in case I decide to level BST on my alt.

[bungiefan]

Curious if anyone who can read Japanese has looked in their forums to see what kind of reaction, if any, they have had. They are a good gauge as to the direction this will go.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/6026-%E3%83%B4%E3%82%A1%E3%83%8A%E3%83%BB%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AB-%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AC%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A7%E3%83%B33

That seems to be the thread mentioning it. Haven't had a chance to try going after it with Rikaichan yet.

[Birdkiller]

Well, I can see that SE wants to make money, but it's pretty stupid to just over-look everyone who bought expansions as they came out by giving those who haven't a reward. This was the same trend for those who bought the mini-expansions. If this continues, why should anyone buy any of the future expansions when they come out? It's obvious that we'll be rewarded better by not purchasing content as it comes out.

The very least they could do is sell the extra items for like $3~$5 each. All it takes is a registration code right? You could just sell the code, players input it, and get the item without having to buy the expansions again.

[Runespider]

People tend to forget XI had a lot of the same problems that XIV had when it came out and took a while for it to finally be up in running in the way it is. NA players arent aware of it because it came out in JP for around a year before it came over seas. There was a while when it was believed XI would be shut down before it ever made it to the USA.

Aside from the fact that the situation XIV is in is nothing at all like what XI started out with at all (XI had server issues which lead to 2 months free, XIV has been going 6-7 months free now and certainly not due to technical issues..it's just sucks), that was a totally different time anyway. This argument although well overused to try make the situation with XIV less deathly has no relevance on what will or won't happen with 14, it was a totally different time with a playerbase far less demanding and as such stuff that would fly then will not fly now.

A game that launches with no competition for it's audience can get away with a huge amount more and go on to succeed, a game that fails to astronomical levels while surrounded by other MMO's at the top of their game and with many upcoming exciting games looming...not so much. The only hope XIV has is to become a JP PS3 success, and that is all it has because the compeition there is almost non-existent, as such it will be lucky to come close to the player numbers XI has right now and as such will probably never pay for itself.

If you think they won't syphon as much money from XI players to feed into paying for a failed game that costs huge amounts of money to keep running for free and that has cost the company 50+ million to create your crazy.

[Randwolf]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/6026-%E3%83%B4%E3%82%A1%E3%83%8A%E3%83%BB%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AB-%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AC%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A7%E3%83%B33

That seems to be the thread mentioning it. Haven't had a chance to try going after it with Rikaichan yet.

Not being able to read Japanese and translators do a poor job, it is hard to say what is the main thrust of each post. At the point where the Community Rep explains that it is a code to get the item, there are multiple posts following that seem to talk about the fact that the people who bought all the additions when they came out are being mistreated. The translator I used had one poster calling S/E greedy. Some posts are happy just to get it. At least one post seems to say they don't care because all jobs are above 30. It seems a couple people don't care about the stats but want the item for collection purposes. The last part of the thread then shifts to PS2 and PS3. The first one complaining about how this is PC exclusive. Then complaints about Sony and S/E and no PS3 edition. There even appears to be some posts about how people need to move to PC from PS2 because of limitations.

But, someone who speaks the language would really need to translate. Because, it was obvious that the computer translator definitely misinterpreted what was posted.

[Vivik]

Well, I can see that SE wants to make money, but it's pretty stupid to just over-look everyone who bought expansions as they came out by giving those who haven't a reward.

It's also pretty stupid to overlook the fact that you got what you paid for at the time with no expectation of anything else, yet now expect something in return.

[Arcon]

It's also pretty stupid to overlook the fact that you got what you paid for at the time with no expectation of anything else, yet now expect something in return.

Some might say it's pretty stupid to reiterate things people have already explained several times over to be wrong. No one is expecting anything. The argument is about what's fair, and this move isn't.

[Vivik]

Some might say it's pretty stupid to reiterate things people have already explained several times over to be wrong. No one is expecting anything. The argument is about what's fair, and this move isn't.

About what's fair? Sounds like my 15 year old son talking. So what you're saying is complaining about something not being fair is not an expectation of getting something out of it? Why complain with no expectation?

[Bhujerba]

It's also pretty stupid to overlook the fact that you got what you paid for at the time with no expectation of anything else, yet now expect something in return.
this^
I know its look bad specially for those who just bought these addons days before the announcement, but those who will buy the collection wont have years+ of abbysea other addons experience and the game itself. oh and the monthly fee is to have access to the game servers, nothing more nothing less (this issue about monthly fee always arise in other MMOs when something outside the game being offered).

This will teach SE not to make awesome collection items anymore lol.

[Karbuncle]

Theres also probably a good share of people who just came back to the game, or started a new character, who could use this hat, but bought the last Vana-collection + Abyssea already.

Their numbers are few, But probably just as few as genuinely new players >___>.

Either way, On the note of "Complaining without expectations". Some people just need to vent, rather their venting gets results generally doesn't matter, just having their opinions heard is enough. you may not agree, but do not rob a man of his right to opinion, even if you disagree :)

that goes for both sides of the argument.

[Randwolf]

About what's fair? Sounds like my 15 year old son talking. So what you're saying is complaining about something not being fair is not an expectation of getting something out of it? Why complain with no expectation?
Perhaps if he were raised better, he wouldn't do that...j/k. But, most kids complain about everything even though they are pretty much just little homeless people that camp-out in your house, eat your food, and beg for money. The people on this forum are paying, some of them long-term, customers.

Anyway, as had been stated, but people continue to miss the point, the people who are complaining are not doing so because they believe that they are owed something for nothing. The issue is they feel they have done everything these new people will be doing, buying FFXI and all the expansions. But, they did so when they came out, at full price. Also, S/E is not just breaking even on your monthly fees. As a monthly subscriber, you have been helping S/E make profits. Happily playing the game while doing so. But, still contributing to their bottom line.

I truly think there would have been less complaints if S/E simply offered the item to everyone, including the newbies, for $20. Or, attached it to an item like that ridiculous necklace. Again, I agree with the sense of entitlement statement. But, what the point is, is that many of the posters believe that it is a sense of entitlement with justification.

It's also a little annoying that it is only available for PC. After the download fiasco, I need to purchase it again for my 360.

[erevan]

Prishe statue : She better be drop-kicking something.

Like maybe those 3 little monsters off the side of the airship?

[erevan]

I'd like to clarify some of your concerns regarding the special items.

The Destrier Beret which is included when you purchase FINAL FANTASY XI ULTIMATE COLLECTION ABYSSEA EDITION is in fact a separate registration code, so even current players who already have these expansions/add-ons can obtain it by purchasing the new collection.

Players that do not already own a Nexus Cape will also receive this when they purchase the new collection.

Every player that currently owns all three Abyssea add-ons or purchases them in the future (whether buy this new collection or separately) will be eligible to receive the Prishe statue.

Does that mean even though a lot of us who have already bought the Abyssea expansions, will have to out and buy the collection just to get the hat?

[Randwolf]

Does that mean even though a lot of us who have already bought the Abyssea expansions, will have to out and buy the collection just to get the hat?
Lol, you're a little late to the conversation. This has pretty much been the debate for the past umpteen pages.

[Krisan]

Theres also probably a good share of people who just came back to the game, or started a new character, who could use this hat, but bought the last Vana-collection + Abyssea already.

Their numbers are few, But probably just as few as genuinely new players >___>.
I'm in the same boat as this, and I just honestly don't care. It's a collectors edition, the item is a bonus. I literally bought Heroes (the last add-on) a week or two ago, and already started on my new character and made a good bit of headway already. I intend to buy the collectors edition for the hat to help give me a headstart on my advanced jobs, and that's that.

It's the same as anything else in life. You buy a new piece of hardware or a new game or whatever, and a week later it goes on sale for half the price or less. You weren't cheated, you simply didn't know you'd be able to buy it for less - no one did. No one knew this item was coming, no one is entitled to it honestly, it's not worth getting so upset over a video game item anyway..

[Tsukino_Kaji]

The Destrier Beret which is included when you purchase FINAL FANTASY XI ULTIMATE COLLECTION ABYSSEA EDITION is in fact a separate registration code, so even current players who already have these expansions/add-ons can obtain it by purchasing the new collection.And SE has already proven, Tidal Talisman, that people will pay upwards of $50 for ingame items.
will be eligible to receive the Prishe statue.Is it life size? >.>

[Karbuncle]

I'm in the same boat as this, and I just honestly don't care. It's a collectors edition, the item is a bonus. I literally bought Heroes (the last add-on) a week or two ago, and already started on my new character and made a good bit of headway already. I intend to buy the collectors edition for the hat to help give me a headstart on my advanced jobs, and that's that.

It's the same as anything else in life. You buy a new piece of hardware or a new game or whatever, and a week later it goes on sale for half the price or less. You weren't cheated, you simply didn't know you'd be able to buy it for less - no one did. No one knew this item was coming, no one is entitled to it honestly, it's not worth getting so upset over a video game item anyway..

I See where you're coming from, but i think I'll try to explain this better. I suck with words so bare with me. FFXI isn't an IPOD. The difference between (Using your example) Buying something, and then it going on sale later... Its not a big deal.

However, If that said something went on sale for 5x Cheaper, then suddenly came with a 1-of-a-kind-Exclusive Iphone Ap or something that was the best AP to use for your Iphone, there would be hell and riot. Its kinda how When the Iphone was first released, a bunch of people bought it, the like, 2weeks later it went on sale for like 100$ less, and then a Shit storm, Apple gave people who bought Iphone a gift card or something.

If this was just a "Hey, Everything is cheaper" Sale no one would care, like the other 80 Vana'Collections. But this one comes now with an in-Game item that is the sole greatest item available for 1-30. So its kinda like, Yah... we definitely aren't entitled to it, But it just seems kinda like a kick in the nuts.

To try and make a better Example, Imagine a new game is released, You buy it for 60$, You enjoy the game, a Few Weeks later it goes on sale for 20$, and now it comes with a 1-of-a-kind In-game Weapon/item/armor that you can only get through buying it again. You'd probably think "Well fuck"

I'm sure it'd be less complaining, Or you probably wouldn't care, but as a general practice it'd feel like a kick in the nuts to people who just bought the game.

I Can't really find a way to word my thoughts adequately, :| I hope you don't take this as an attack on you, I'm just trying to show you where these people are coming from. I certainly don't feel entitled to anything, but I feel for the people who are on the side of the argument that want the item.

[Alhanelem]

That item is of pretty limited use to long time players. It stops working after level 30, so as amazing as it is, it has no effect on endgame which is what really matters. This is simply a "catch up" item for any new player who comes into the game. Please, stop the crying.

[bungiefan]

It's the same as anything else in life. You buy a new piece of hardware or a new game or whatever, and a week later it goes on sale for half the price or less. You weren't cheated, you simply didn't know you'd be able to buy it for less - no one did. No one knew this item was coming, no one is entitled to it honestly, it's not worth getting so upset over a video game item anyway..

Except with that example, many retail stores have a return/exchange window. Many stores I shop at have protection against that, where if it goes on sale within 14 days of your purchase, you can exchange the item for itself and they refund you the difference in price.

This, they're telling us, thanks for buying the game at full price, now we're going to give our new customers something extra plus the game at a discount, and you have to pay a total of even more if you want that bonus. They're punishing us for buying the full product early.

[Pagronith]

First off, I don't really care about the item and think the whole situation is being blown out of proportion. I don't think there's anything unethical about what SE is doing though a side of it is probably greed on their part. But at the same time, the so-called "principle" of the matter is also a matter of greed on the consumer's part thinking they're "entitled" to items outside promotional time. Still, in an attempt at mediation, I think there are a few things that should be mentioned. There were two examples I liked that were mentioned earlier in the thread that I'd like to discuss, the grocery store and the cable promotion (I remember the second being shot down but I'll give you an inside look on how broadband companies actually act).

The grocery store where people obtain some sort of rewards program was well thought out and SE could probably learn from this. Still, the fact remains that we pay for a service they provide. I'll leave updates out of this since most updates have in the past been content expected that should have been part of a recently released expansion anyways save for a few fixes here and there. However, let's look at content. If we think of the game's bonus content as SE's version of the rewards program, then perhaps we can see how they think. One of the things SE has provided for us are player events. Sure, very few people nowadays go out hunting Genji Armor, trade treats to the costumed NPCs, or even hunt Eggs, but that was our bonus content. Still, the argument could be made that many other MMORPG models use real-life holidays as times to release event-themed content. I'll grant you that. So let's continue on to stuff that newer players will never see.

Who here remembers the dungeon runs where you get the portrait of your partner as a key item? I believe it was called Azimoth's Compass or something similar. I remember I still have one of those key items and since the event was never repeated it still sits in my key items. Another was chasing those treants to unlock the outpost warps. A third was the chocobo goblin riders which I'm glad made a comeback recently as I hadn't seen them in a while. But for the former two events, new players will probably never see these things as SE has replaced the events where they took place with events that can easily be repeated yearly. I feel that's one of my built up rewards in the way of memories of doing those events with old friends who are no longer around.

Still, people are probably focusing on the physical aspect of the content that is being denied them. I like items; I'm a pack rat that never dropped any of his AF1 weapons and tries to collect anything an everything without real value. Who remembers where the Engineer Gloves came from? Well, SE has had a sorta reward system in place for a few years now, the Adventurer's Appreciation Campaign. New players are not going to get the items handed out over the previous Appreciation Campaigns in retrospect. But chances are that they will get it the next AC that comes around. Yes, they'll probably get their first Anniversary Ring whereas I'll be on my 4th... or is it 3rd or 5th, I forget. Sure, it's not the super-awesome hat that the new players will be getting, but it's not about the stats right? It's about the "principle".

Alright, that was a hefty explanation for the first concept but on to concept 2, the cable company promotions. Cable and phone companies have three types of promotions. The first are seasonal type promotions. These are the most similar to what SE is offering in this case where they are dangling some bait in order to lure new customers to their product. The bait might be so alluring though, that even existing customers actually get aggravated that they're not getting it. This brings the second type of promotional item, the existing customer promotion. These are promotions that we offer existing customer so that they don't tear our heads off when we tell them "No, you can't have $150 cash back or 6 months free DVR, but you can have 3 months of free HBO instead. Oh, and don't forget to call us back before those three months are up or else we'll start charging after the promotion is over you until you cancel." This is where the Prishe statue lies, oh, and the free HBO is also available to th new customers. However, the cable company does provide an exception to existing customers looking for the first promotion. "Renew your 1 or 2 year contract with us and we'll provide you with the promotion, maybe". It actually depends on the promotion whether renewal will actually work with this. So while promotion A might be offered on a renewal basis, Promotion B will be too good to actually offer it and thus you're offered the second group. Oh, but here comes my favorite, the retentional promotions. These are offered only to the people who say "Oh, if you don't give me the promotion, I'm going to quit!" Thus you get passed on to a new department who has another bag of goody promotions that will hopefully sate you while you may be told that you're being transferred to the disconnection department. Chances are, this department may have specials that are neither offered to new customers or existing customers unless they say they're unhappy with the service and want to quit. I don't really think SE sees a need for this kind of promotions nor do I see the need to make one for a game.

Summing up the previous paragraph, hat is new player promotion. It's available to existing players if they buy the collection instead of a renewal method that the cable company may provide. Existing customers receive a Prishe statue, something new players I believe are also eligible for and similar to our free HBO scenario. There's nothing unethical going on here, it's a business model. Perhaps if you haven't worked in a cable company you don't see the parallels, but I certainly do. Still, I do like the rewards plan idea but I think the Adventure Appreciation Campaign does this to some extent, but perhaps to an extent we're that we're not satisfied. This may be justified or it may just be greed on our part. I've said my part though and hope I've shed some light on some ideas even if I didn't change anyone's minds. Just keep in mind everyone may have differing opinions. Oh, and as a bonus tip, companies hate when you tell them you won't hang up since some may not be able to hang up on customers.

[bungiefan]

Heck, if they added the item to Gold World Passes, without it taking a full year to redeem it, it might be acceptable. It would get us to recruit more players. The hats that system gives now have been obsoleted by Level Sync.

[Etrigan]

This pisses me off as well, if they were going to do this I would rather them do it with when you buy the beret as a physical item much like they did with the Tidal Talisman. That way I could be paying for something (somewhat) cool IRL and get a bonus in game item... rather than have to buy a new set of install discs to get an item to help my lowbie jobs... that is 20 bucks I will *NOT* be wasting

[Misi]

Like maybe those 3 little monsters off the side of the airship?

I'm cool with that!

[Mirage]

stuff

Sure, it's not really unethical, but that doesn't mean existing players can't be dissatisfied when a representative says "you already bought this product, but if you buy it again, you can also get this item!"

It's also worth noting that because this is a virtual item, it doesn't actually cost anything at all for the company to make it available to more people.

[Yinnyth]

Except with that example, many retail stores have a return/exchange window. Many stores I shop at have protection against that, where if it goes on sale within 14 days of your purchase, you can exchange the item for itself and they refund you the difference in price.

This, they're telling us, thanks for buying the game at full price, now we're going to give our new customers something extra plus the game at a discount, and you have to pay a total of even more if you want that bonus. They're punishing us for buying the full product early.

Yes, I'm certain that was their reasoning when they decided to go ahead with this item. Lex Luthor, Sage Sundi, and Snidely Whiplash all sat around a table and spent a whole night trying to figure out how they could make you angry.

Or perhaps it was an item that was designed to lend a helping hand to any new players who happen to see the game in the store and decide to pick it up and give it a try. How old is this game now? Feels like I've been playing it for 20 years now. But starting out as a complete newb, you have nothing to offer to anyone who could actually help you out. The beret helps to bridge the gap to the point where you could at least stand a chance getting lucky and leeching exp out of abyssea.

Myself, I would get nothing out of this hat since a few years back my friend and I duo'd all our jobs above 37, but I could see where it would be useful to people who still have a job below level 30. A job below level 30 that they intend to level still. A job below level 30 that they intend to level still and don't have a friend who could help powerlevel them.

But hey, if you don't want fresh blood joining the game and getting an enjoyable enough experience that they might stick around long enough to reach the endgame, you're completely entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that SE is trying to do the right thing in the wrong way. I forgive them however because they're in too much of a hurry to re-implement all the content in the game designed for level 30 and below. They have lots of endgame content to finish implementing for me to enjoy, so I appreciate they didn't waste too much time on making gameplay feasible for new players.

Oh yeah, they also probably figured they could make a few bucks off the random long-time player who simply buys things to collect. But I really don't see much use for this beret for any serious endgamers. Sure you could argue that they should be giving this item to EVERYONE and they can determine whether or not it's useful or just a waste of space, but there are lots of factors you need to consider. Not only does a newb not have any ingame friends to help them (you probably do), they don't know what a freaking weaponskill is or how they use it. They probably think they have to run all the way back to their mog house to restore their MP. They don't know how to mine for fish. Getting started in abyssea at this point with no atma, no abyssite, none of the gear is a hellish experience for someone who's completely new to the game. They need a leg up, you don't.

As for the money, most wares depreciate in value over time. Expansions are wares.

[Randwolf]

First off, I don't really care about the item and think the whole situation ...customers.
I actually find this whole issue pretty interesting on an academic level. In undergraduate experimental psych, on of my areas was consumer manipulation. Image and belief plays a large part in the success of any product. Probably my favorite experiment involved getting people to believe advertizing over their own senses. It's fairly easy to manipulate people. Especially those who are loyal to a brand (political parties are the best example).

Anyway, your points are valid and, to an extent, analogous. And, I would assume that S/E contemplated the cost-benefit before they moved forward with this in this fasion. Now, the only difference between the cable company and this promotion is that the premium channels have an ongoing cost. As, opposed to this in-game item which has a one-time cost to S/E, primarily the hours they paid for someone to design and code it. With the premium channels, and perhaps you could enlighten me, for these promotion periods, I'm guessing that somewhere up the food chain, the studios or the channels themselves, may be waiving some or any of the costs to the cable company. Or, the cable company is eating the entire costs of the content in the hopes of people continuing the service after the trial. Thus, the premium content is never free. It is always costing someone in the chain something. As opposed to the item S/E paid for and can replicate as many times as it wishes at no further cost.

Now, for most business, if you had an item that costs you the same for 1 or 100,000, you most likely would give it as an incentive to new customers. And, to current customers as a loyalty builder. However, you figure that this item can generate revenue because it is attractive to old customers and some will want the item enough to pay for it. Even to the point of buying something they already bought from you and really don't need to buy again. Undoubtedly, you know that asking customers to buy something a second time, especially if they don't need the original item a second time, just to get the new item will make some of them angry. You also know that it will lessen loyalty to your brand. However, if that item costs you lots to create the first time, that could be part of your equation in the calculations.

Now S/E has the advantage of being the only provider of FFXI. There is no where else you can get it. Add to that, that some people are literally addicted to the product. There are some customers so addicted that S/E could do just about anything to them and they will still continue to pay S/E to play. They may hate themselves and S/E. But they will still continue to pay to play.

Now, since we know this item is a one time cost to S/E, unless they have a royalty arrangement with the designer (I highly doubt this since most companies have written agreements that anything created on their clock belongs to them), to provide all customers, whether new or old creates no extra expense for S/E. So, it's pretty obvious that S/E went with option two: Attempt to generate revenue from old customers with an item that costs you nothing. And, of course all the benefits and negatives that come along with it.

[Duelle]

Pathetic non-related argument about an item I didn't buy, even though it was amazing. Just because you don't value your money highly enough doesn't mean other more sensible people are the same. Like I said, not going to argue with naivety. I'm not trying to convince you, so stop trying to convince me of something that stupid? I have every right to be mad about this obvious ploy to get more money out of people who already purchased everything. This isn't going to change, nor is the fact that they are wronging us.Not to belittle your stance, but you're mad at a company from a country where it is common practice to re-release something with one or two extras like stickers or a little model of one of the characters, or maybe an added extra character but little else changed in-game. Granted, they have to get creative for an MMO like FFXI, but the business model is there.

Now whether they're using this as a way to make money to feed FFXIV is another story, and since I can't read their VP of marketing's mind, I can neither confirm or deny that claim.

[Randwolf]

Now whether they're using this as a way to make money to feed FFXIV is another story, and since I can't read their VP of marketing's mind, I can neither confirm or deny that claim.
Yeah, that would pretty much be BS. Now, they may be siphoning off FFXI's profits to help feed FXIV if it's losing money. But, I can't imagine that any business decisions around a single FFXI release would be controlled by the relationship between the two games. Now, it would be realistic if every part of S/E was told to tighten their belts and find extra sources of revenue until XIV becomes profitable. But, again, I have a hard time with the thought someone said "XIV needs money. Put that hat with the collection bundle. Then, send all proceeds from anyone who bought each expansion/add-on separately and then bought the collection to XIV."

[Sekundes]

I'd like to see what SE's reaction to all this is. The hat is only for looks for someone like me, and yea, I want it but I wouldn't be willing to buy the collection again to do it, especially since I've already bought it for 4 characters.

I knew they would eventually release a cheaper all in one pack for abyssea and that does not bother me in the slightest. It does kinda bother me that they would add an item to it that I would have to repurchase to get.

[Krisan]

I See where you're coming from, but i think I'll try to explain this better. I suck with words so bare with me. FFXI isn't an IPOD. The difference between (Using your example) Buying something, and then it going on sale later... Its not a big deal.

However, If that said something went on sale for 5x Cheaper, then suddenly came with a 1-of-a-kind-Exclusive Iphone Ap or something that was the best AP to use for your Iphone, there would be hell and riot. Its kinda how When the Iphone was first released, a bunch of people bought it, the like, 2weeks later it went on sale for like 100$ less, and then a Shit storm, Apple gave people who bought Iphone a gift card or something.

If this was just a "Hey, Everything is cheaper" Sale no one would care, like the other 80 Vana'Collections. But this one comes now with an in-Game item that is the sole greatest item available for 1-30. So its kinda like, Yah... we definitely aren't entitled to it, But it just seems kinda like a kick in the nuts.

To try and make a better Example, Imagine a new game is released, You buy it for 60$, You enjoy the game, a Few Weeks later it goes on sale for 20$, and now it comes with a 1-of-a-kind In-game Weapon/item/armor that you can only get through buying it again. You'd probably think "Well fuck"

I'm sure it'd be less complaining, Or you probably wouldn't care, but as a general practice it'd feel like a kick in the nuts to people who just bought the game.

I Can't really find a way to word my thoughts adequately, :| I hope you don't take this as an attack on you, I'm just trying to show you where these people are coming from. I certainly don't feel entitled to anything, but I feel for the people who are on the side of the argument that want the item.
The hat isn't an end-all item, though. In your example the app on the iPhone is the "best App" and in this case.. The hat isn't. It's only good up until level 30, and.. well, did you notice how they're removing the exp loss up to level 30? SE is treating 1-30 as the new 1-10 range. (Which makes sense, considering the level cap increase and exp changes.) This is something I think a lot of people are neglecting to realize, or rather it's a transition that isn't easy for people to process. (We're all admittedly very used to the way things have been for a good many years..)

What I'm trying to say here is, the hat isn't that valuable, and it's not really worth losing sleep over. A better comparison would be some kind of exclusive and thorough and initiative tutorial added the iPhone, something that the end-user could benefit from when they start out using their new device - but that which eventually becomes useless. The hat is the same, it's a nice kickstart, helps people get their bearings, but it's utterly worthless after a certain point.

My example of 1-30 being the new 1-10 is also very important to take into consideration here.. It's no coincidence they made the hat in this range and are releasing it just as the exp loss is removed in that range. These were probably planned to go hand and hand together for a long while now. 1-30 with the exp change is also pretty darn fast, it takes longer than 1-10 did in the old days, yea, but it's a lot faster than 1-30 was in the old days..

Also, what does the hat do exactly? Reraise, Refresh, Regen.. Can already get all of these from FoV. The skill bonus is nice, but are you terribly likely not to be capped on your skills pre-30 anyway? That really just leaves the movement speed bonus, which is pretty unique to be certain.. Though we can accomplish this at level 1 already just using something like Sprinter's Shoes. (Albeit, it's not a constant effect and costs charges, but you see where I'm going with this.)

The hat is awesome, this is true. This is why I want it. But it is not the best thing ever, and it's not worth getting upset over in my opinion. Quite a few long-time players (loyal fans playing from day one) probably won't even have jobs low enough (like yourself) to take advantage of it. And even those who can.. So what? 1-30 is the new 1-10 coming next patch, even if you're the worst player ever and die at every turn.. you'll still get 30 without much else in the way of slowing you down.

Also as far as the exclusive items go with games.. This happens all the time these days. Retailers like Amazon and GameStop ship unique DLC with them depending on who you order with. SE themselves did this with FFXIV too, the regular version came with a pair of Goggles, the Collectors Edition had a Helmet. These were mutually exclusive, and you had to buy the game twice if you wanted both. (Likewise, a bonus item came with FFXIII for the game, and ANOTHER item came with having an active FFXI subscription.) This is actually a very common practice.. All of these things are also generally aesthetic or very finite in their usefulness. (They aren't good forever, or they're only visually appealing.)

Anyway.. In the case of exclusive DLC depending on where you buy a game.. In those cases you end up in a situation where you need to buy the game at full retail price more than once for the stuff, or you do without. In this case with the hat, you can buy the full game at an incredible discount and get the hat. I would also add that the CM mentioned the reward code was separate from the registration code.. Meaning you could buy it, get your hat, and then sell the registration code to someone who wanted it. (For an alt account or whatever else.)

Oh and no, I don't take any of this as a personal attack. If anything you are one of the most constructive members on this forum and I respect you for that.

[Arcon]

Prishe statue : She better be drop-kicking something.

Like maybe those 3 little monsters off the side of the airship?

I'm cool with that!

Who wouldn't be? They're almost as annoying as Prishe herself. Now we just need a statue of Tenzen cutting Prishe in half and Vana'diel will be a less annoying place again.


Yes, I'm certain that was their reasoning when they decided to go ahead with this item. Lex Luthor, Sage Sundi, and Snidely Whiplash all sat around a table and spent a whole night trying to figure out how they could make you angry.

Almost. They tried to figure out how to milk you for more money. And they succeeded and are gonna go ahead with it despite an angry crowd. The analogy is quite nice.


The hat isn't an end-all item, though. [..]

As I said before, it isn't at all about the value and usefulness of the item. It could be a bag of flaming chocobo poop, the concern would still be valid. It's about making any kind of ingame content, no matter what it is, only available through real money means. Is this immoral? Debatable. People aren't entitled to anything, but they could logically assume, that by paying the monthly fee, they don't get excluded from any game content, which is the case here. Even if it was a standalone item, not coming with a new collection, it would still be immoral in my opinion. How does a new collection that comes with it make it worse? Technically, it doesn't. But it masks SE's attempt at making money by shallowly tying it to something else, and as I said before, that sounds like a scam and is disrespectful to the userbase.

It was the same with the Tidal Talisman. I bought that, along with tons of other people. How many of them do you think still owned it after the first day? Do you think SE really expected that it was so popular and that they'd see FFXI fans walk the streets with their new bling? Why do you even think SE bundled it with a real item in the first place? Because it was always their policy to not make ingame content available through real life means. So they simply said that you aren't paying for the ingame item, but for the actual item, with the ingame item being a bonus. It still went against their policy, they knew it, the players knew it, people were annoyed by that move back then as well. Now they took it one step further, and masked it with a rather useless product, at least to a majority of people who will be buying it.

And to the people saying "other companies do something similar all the time", that is not an argument at all.

[Runespider]

It was the same with the Tidal Talisman. I bought that, along with tons of other people. How many of them do you think still owned it after the first day? Do you think SE really expected that it was so popular and that they'd see FFXI fans walk the streets with their new bling? Why do you even think SE bundled it with a real item in the first place? Because it was always their policy to not make ingame content available through real life means. So they simply said that you aren't paying for the ingame item, but for the actual item, with the ingame item being a bonus. It still went against their policy, they knew it, the players knew it, people were annoyed by that move back then as well. Now they took it one step further, and masked it with a rather useless product, at least to a majority of people who will be buying it.

All Square truely care about is money, even more so currently. If they know people will buy the whole pack (and they will) just for some "ingame bling" they will do it, and indeed will do it more and more as they see how successfull a means it is to make money. If this bothers you, DO NOT BUY IT. That is the biggest message you can give, if everyone complains but it's a big financial success there will be alot more coming.

[Fadnog]

This aggravates me to know that an item that i can actually get use out of is something that i have to $20 to get. Even though I got all of the same expansions and add-ons, I don't get this item that can be very helpful to level jobs that are still low level. I still have many jobs below 30, including subs that I probably should have leveled. The reason why most of my jobs are below 30 is because its a pain to level to 30, especially now that everyone is busy with Abyssea and new content.

I have played this game for like 5 years on and off. I have I think 9 or 10 jobs leveled past 30, I haven't even unlocked a few jobs. I even have some subs i need to level that are below 30. So its not like i wouldn't benefit from this item by any means, and yet I would have to pay for an item that would greatly improve my ability to level half my jobs to a point in which i can at least leech. In order for to get an item like that I would have to pay for stuff i already bought for a higher price.

I know that this item is meant to be an incentive for new players, I'm all for giving new players this item. But for people like me, who could use this item, we totally *****ed over. This actually makes me want to dissuade my friends from playing this game if SE does stuff like this, I don't want my friends to be going through similar things in the future.

I guess at the end of the day SE can just do whatever they want, but I am highly dissatisfied with what they are doing to us. If they were giving us an equally good item for buying the expansions/add-ons when they came out it would be a different story, but they haven't said anything of the sort so I'm left to believe they just don't care enough about the existing community enough to do something like that.

SE if you do care enough at least give us, the existing and loyal community, something of equivalent value.

P.S.
Sorry for the long vent post.

[Treefiddy]

Yeah, this is kind of a slap in the face to long time players who bought every add-on individually at $10 each. Everyone that has all 3 abyssea add-ons installed should be eligible to receive this item without having to buy a whole new collection for $20 more. I'm also pretty disappointed that they just announced this collection now. My dad bought the ultimate collection months ago in order to play with me, and it's been sitting there collecting dust because he can't create a new account on Siren until the merge. Now that he'll finally be able to start playing on the 10th here comes a new collection that he could've waited to buy had he known he wouldn't even be able to play when he bought the last one. I'm sorry SE, but I'm getting really fed up with you guys. Stuff like this compounded with your lack of good customer support and worthless GMs that I can't even get to talk to me without an automated message really pisses me off.

[Yinnyth]

Almost. They tried to figure out how to milk you for more money. And they succeeded and are gonna go ahead with it despite an angry crowd. The analogy is quite nice.

Actually, if they wanted to milk me for money on this thing, they've failed. My jobs are all 37+ already. And I pity anyone who drops the 20 bucks for something they honestly won't get much use out of. I'm not trying to say SE isn't a money grubbing corporation. They are indeed a large company, and money grubbing is what all successful companies do.

But this is tame in comparison to what they could have done. If they wanted to, they could have put a code for a defending ring on the package which would be useful to anyone who already has a level 70+ job. But that's not what they did, they instead created a brand new item which was designed around giving brand new players a leg up. Imagine starting from scratch in ffxi today. You don't know how to get your SJ, there's no one around your level to party with, and no one you know is playing the game. Anyone in that situation really needs the help.

Everyone who posts on these forums, however, has been playing the game long enough that they could go from level 1-30 on 4 jobs without the beret in less time than a brand new player could go from 1-30 on 1 job WITH the beret. The item wasn't designed for you, so don't buy it. I'm certainly not going to.

[Yinnyth]

Was there this much of an outcry when abyssea came out? Back before this announcement, every player had to shell out 30 bucks if they wanted access to the easiest exp for level 30+ jobs, the best gear in the game, and the easiest, most powerful weapons ever to see this virtual world. 30 bucks, or you don't get to take part in what has become 90% of gameplay. You have to sit around in DA and long for the good old days when you didn't have to pay money to get to endgame places like sky or sea or salvage.

Now that they've released an item for $20 which makes what has become less than 1% of gameplay substantially easier, THAT'S when they've gone too far?

[Randwolf]

Was there this much of an outcry when abyssea came out? Back before this announcement, every player had to shell out 30 bucks if they wanted access to the easiest exp for level 30+ jobs, the best gear in the game, and the easiest, most powerful weapons ever to see this virtual world. 30 bucks, or you don't get to take part in what has become 90% of gameplay. You have to sit around in DA and long for the good old days when you didn't have to pay money to get to endgame places like sky or sea or salvage.

Now that they've released an item for $20 which makes what has become less than 1% of gameplay substantially easier, THAT'S when they've gone too far?
Is there anything about your post that it is not a thinly veiled attempt to complain about the new content but instead actually part of the discussion? And, both Sea and Salvage required buying the expansions. The only free expansion was RoZ.

p.s. - Just in case I need to explain, you are saying "You didn't complain about Abyssea, but you complain about this hat." Meaning that Abyssea was bad but this is bad on a lesser scale. However, the two are not related at all. One completely changed game play (which a lot of people found positive) while another is an exclusive in-game item.

[DamonWolfe]

Totally fine with this, my gf wants to play anyways, she can use the Code to play the game and I can get the hat :D

[Yinnyth]

Is there anything about your post that it is not a thinly veiled attempt to complain about the new content but instead actually part of the discussion? And, both Sea and Salvage required buying the expansions. The only free expansion was RoZ.

p.s. - Just in case I need to explain, you are saying "You didn't complain about Abyssea, but you complain about this hat." Meaning that Abyssea was bad but this is bad on a lesser scale. However, the two are not related at all. One completely changed game play (which a lot of people found positive) while another is an exclusive in-game item.
Well first of all, just to clarify, I meant "You have to sit around in DA and long for the good old days when you didn't have to pay money to get to endgame places, before sky, sea, or salvage." My overall point is that we've been FORCED to fork over money if we want to keep abreast the endgame community in... pretty much every expansion except for maybe the mini ones. In contrast to this one item which will help you out for... maybe 35 hours if all 20 of your jobs are below level 30... those expansions seem like gunpoint robbery whereas this is more like a panhandling hobo asking you nicely for spare change. You don't need this hat. It won't do you nearly as much good as it would do for someone who is just picking up the game.

If however they were offering a free, final form empyrean weapon, yeah, that's just a painfully obvious attempt to get people who don't need the disc to pick it up anyways just so they don't fall behind. This trinket is just a barely useful fashion statement for anyone who reads these forums, but it's completely game-changing for a true newb. So, when looking back to all the other expansions (Spaceballs 2: The Quest For More Money) in which you either buy it or you're newb, do you really truly believe this is SE's best attempt at milking money out of existing gamers?

I'll say it again. You don't need this hat. If you want it badly enough just to look like a chocobo with embarassing acne and awkward voice changes, hey, whatever floats your boat. But you don't need this hat. Newbs need this hat.

Edit: Maybe not so much gunpoint robbery, but gunpoint tradery. "Give me 30 bucks for this keyboard, or I shoot you!" as compared to "Please, kind sir, I'll sell you my left shoe for 20 bucks." Eh, it's still hyperbole, but you get the point.

[Krisan]

As I said before, it isn't at all about the value and usefulness of the item. It could be a bag of flaming chocobo poop, the concern would still be valid. It's about making any kind of ingame content, no matter what it is, only available through real money means. Is this immoral? Debatable. People aren't entitled to anything, but they could logically assume, that by paying the monthly fee, they don't get excluded from any game content, which is the case here. Even if it was a standalone item, not coming with a new collection, it would still be immoral in my opinion. How does a new collection that comes with it make it worse? Technically, it doesn't. But it masks SE's attempt at making money by shallowly tying it to something else, and as I said before, that sounds like a scam and is disrespectful to the userbase.

It was the same with the Tidal Talisman. I bought that, along with tons of other people. How many of them do you think still owned it after the first day? Do you think SE really expected that it was so popular and that they'd see FFXI fans walk the streets with their new bling? Why do you even think SE bundled it with a real item in the first place? Because it was always their policy to not make ingame content available through real life means. So they simply said that you aren't paying for the ingame item, but for the actual item, with the ingame item being a bonus. It still went against their policy, they knew it, the players knew it, people were annoyed by that move back then as well. Now they took it one step further, and masked it with a rather useless product, at least to a majority of people who will be buying it.

And to the people saying "other companies do something similar all the time", that is not an argument at all.
Well, I wasn't really responding to you, but.. Since you quoted me.

I don't know what to tell you really. Your stance on this is one I understand perfectly well, but.. it's just the way things are. And my pointing out it's been done before and by other companies or even by SE itself - that wasn't meant as an arguement, that was meant to point out the cold hard truth of the matter.. Which is: This isn't new, this happens a lot now, this is the current direction of the industry.

My arguement was simple, the item isn't worth getting bent out of shape over. Now the MORALITY of this business practice is in a whole other ballpark, and if that's what you (and some others here) are upset about, well.. That's an understandable thing to want to think about and to want to discuss. But as I said, it's common practice these days, it's just the way things are. I don't agree with it either, and yes I find it a bit annoying at times too - it was a bitch in the case of FFXIV to get all of the bonus items in that game.. But meh, life goes on.

[Randwolf]

I'll say it again. You don't need this hat.

Agreed



My argument was simple, the item isn't worth getting bent out of shape over. Now the MORALITY of this business practice is in a whole other ballpark, and if that's what you (and some others here) are upset about, well.. That's an understandable thing to want to think about and to want to discuss. But as I said, it's common practice these days, it's just the way things are. I don't agree with it either, and yes I find it a bit annoying at times too - it was a bitch in the case of FFXIV to get all of the bonus items in that game.. But meh, life goes on.

I think what kind of stands out here are three things that occurred because of the tsunami:

1) People were asking for a way to give to Japan through S/E
2) People were asking for a way to still pay their monthly fees
3) People were supporting S/E not having a back-up plan for a scenario when their central operations went down, having sympathy for poor planning on S/E's part because of the situation

I think those people, myself included, took those stances because of a feeling of affinity with S/E. It was based on a belief that there was something beyond a pure business relationship. Although S/E is giving an item to those who contributed to relief efforts through them, I think very few expected anything in return when they asked for such a vehicle. I know if the same thing had occurred with a company such as AT&T, I would have had a very different position. I feel like it's pure business with them. Unfortunately, trying to get me to buy something I don't need just to get an item now has made S/E purely a business arrangement in my mind. While it always was that, most companies do not want you to think that. Naive, yes. But, still a reality for many who play the game.

[Yinnyth]

3) People were supporting S/E not having a back-up plan for a scenario when their central operations went down, having sympathy for poor planning on S/E's part because of the situation

Wow. "Poor planning". Woooooowwwww. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're saying that third one was other people's assessment of the situation. If I am correct in my assumption that you fall into one of the 2 other listed categories, then this response is not directed at you, it's directed at everyone who actually believes SE should be held accountable for not being prepared for one of the worst natural disasters of recent times.

Response: YOU DO NOT PAY SE ENOUGH FOR THEM TO HAVE REDUNDANT SERVERS IN ALL 7 CONTINENTS. Just as it is impractical to walk around in full body armor all the time just in case you get attacked, it is impractical and costly to have a back up plan for when Thor, God of Thunder, decides to fart destruction upon your entire country.

Now that I've responded to those heartless people who always need a human or humans to blame if something inconveniences them in the slightest bit... if I'm reading into your post correctly, you're essentially saying that you felt compassion for SE as a company, but now you feel betrayed that the compassion was not reciprocated, largely due to the fact that this item (which you likely have no use for) has been included in their compilation. Perhaps even extending the argument so far as to say that SE is using the sympathy they've built up from the disaster in order to make more money. In which case you're simply being illogical since they have made much better attempts at our money than this, and this item is not extremely useful beyond the 3 hours of your life it might save you depending on how many sub-30 jobs you level. Or perhaps I have completely missed your point..

[Randwolf]

... if I'm reading into your post correctly, you're essentially saying that you felt compassion for SE as a company, but now you feel betrayed that the compassion was not reciprocated, largely due to the fact that this item (which you likely have no use for) has been included in their compilation. Perhaps even extending the argument so far as to say that SE is using the sympathy they've built up from the disaster in order to make more money. In which case you're simply being illogical since they have made much better attempts at our money than this, and this item is not extremely useful beyond the 3 hours of your life it might save you depending on how many sub-30 jobs you level. Or perhaps I have completely missed your point..
You did completely miss the point.

The point I'm making is that companies, most of the good ones, make every attempt to have customers believe that it isn't a business focused primarily on the bottom line. But, instead, some entity with which they have a relationship. The point is that for 1 & 2 on my list, they succeeded with some people. There were many people wanting to donate through them, when giving to the Red Cross was easier and just as effective, which showed that people had a personal connection with the company. You could pick just about any of the major charities and your money would still have gotten to the Japanese people. As far as people still wanting to pay S/E their monthly fee when S/E was waiving it, that is a big one. How many businesses would you say to "take my money, you need it." Yet, there were quite a few people who said just that.

As far as the final point, I'm guessing you haven't been on the forums long. This was a major discussion with people ripping S/E a new one for not having a back-up plan. And, it wasn't just a couple people. Unrealistic or not, I'm doubting you would find anyone who felt an affinity for the company arguing that one. But, there were quite a lot of people who did rip-up on S/E for just that reason.

[Yinnyth]

So you're trying to say that SE isn't trying hard enough to fool us into thinking they don't care about the bottom line? Or that they're trying too hard?

[Randwolf]

So you're trying to say that SE isn't trying hard enough to fool us into thinking they don't care about the bottom line? Or that they're trying too hard?

That would be correct on the first point. If you can make a customer believe that it is more about them than the money, you're being smart. If people believe you care more about their wallet than them, they will shop around for someone who is easier on the wallet. It has nothing to do with reality. Even hospitals are about the bottom line. They don't ever want you to believe that. But, it's true. However, a good business makes you believe otherwise.

[Karbuncle]

That would be correct on the first point. If you can make a customer believe that it is more about them than the money, you're being smart. If people believe you care more about their wallet than them, they will shop around for someone who is easier on the wallet. It has nothing to do with reality. Even hospitals are about the bottom line. They don't ever want you to believe that. But, it's true. However, a good business makes you believe otherwise.

This actually makes a lot of sense.

Just saying >___>

[Atima]

I don't see why we shouldn't be entitled to it. The beret comes in addition to the content, yet we already own the content. How exactly can you justify paying $20 for a collection that I already have all the content from

The same way I bought the game, 4 expansions, and 3 add-on scenarios for 15 bucks? The only difference is a hat that won't affect the end-game (or even mid-game) scene at all.

Scenario 1: Buy the game, every expansion, and every addon as they come out paying full price, being able to play as soon as they're available.

Scenario 2: Buy the game, every expansion, and every addon for a fraction the full price for each significantly later than when they came out therefore having access for a shorter period of time.

Scenario 3: Same as Scenario 2 except throw in a hat, and all hell breaks loose.

People that paid full price for each addon/expansion got it as soon as they were available and were able to progress through the content at their leisure. People who buy the new add-ons now are almost a year behind and won't have the same luxuries of knowledge, experience, and Linkshells to make progression easier.

Using the cable example, the "long time customers" got to watch/order more content than the ones who buy cable tomorrow. Your subscription fee is your entitlement to the content. The time you spend paying this fee does not entitle you to anything other than the content you pay for, be it 10 years or 10 seconds.

You chose to buy the Add-on scenarios when they came out. Could've waited until a few weeks from now to buy it and get a free hat, but you didn't you bought it at the price they set. Your reward is being able to play that content for a significant amount of time before the people that buy it in 2 weeks.

If you don't like the idea of throwing a bunch of money at a wall and then seeing new people come up to that wall and be able to do the same thing for a lesser amount than you probably shouldn't be playing MMOs.

[Yinnyth]

And you feel this collection is one of their bigger failings to obscure the truth that they don't care about us, they care about our money? A blatant and outright lunge at our pocketbooks?

[Randwolf]

And you feel this collection is one of their bigger failings to obscure the truth that they don't care about us, they care about our money? A blatant and outright lunge at our pocketbooks?

No, just one of the more obvious ones.

[Atima]

This actually makes a lot of sense.

Just saying >___>

While it does make sense and good on a company that can do that and maintain a successful business model, this doesn't necessarily mean that SE is doing exactly that. While I think SE cares about it's consumers more than some (look at all the effort going into fixing FF14), they need to pull in more new players as well.

Making your old customers is certainly a concern, but getting NEW customers in addition to your old ones, is probably their focus. If you can keep the old customers complacent, and the get some new ones while you're at it, why not release a new Ultimate collection like this?

[Yinnyth]

No, just one of the more obvious ones.

Cereal with worthless little toy prizes which you have no use for. Also an obvious attempt at getting adults with no children to buy the cereal? No, they have an obvious target: children. This hat has an obvious target: newbs.

[Randwolf]

Cereal with worthless little toy prizes which you have no use for. Also an obvious attempt at getting adults with no children to buy the cereal? No, they have an obvious target: children. This hat has an obvious target: newbs.

Anyway, I tire of this discussion. I think most people have, at this point, decided what they feel about the issue and most likely won't change their mind one way or the other.

[Karbuncle]

While it does make sense and good on a company that can do that and maintain a successful business model, this doesn't necessarily mean that SE is doing exactly that. While I think SE cares about it's consumers more than some (look at all the effort going into fixing FF14), they need to pull in more new players as well.

Making your old customers is certainly a concern, but getting NEW customers in addition to your old ones, is probably their focus. If you can keep the old customers complacent, and the get some new ones while you're at it, why not release a new Ultimate collection like this?

I don't think giving current players this hat will prevent new players from joining >____>

[Atima]

I don't think giving current players this hat will prevent new players from joining >____>

The idea isn't to give it to current players. That hat is clearly intended for new ones. While there isn't anything wrong with giving it to old players, and there isn't anything from stopping the old players from buying the Expansion, the expansion isn't meant for old players that already have access to the content.

While I'm not saying the hat shouldn't be given to old players by ANY means, complaining that you don't get a hat that won't really affect you is silly. You can get the hat if you want it. The price has been set and you can have at it Would it be cool if SE made it available without the new expansion, sure, but it isn't. Facts are facts.

If you could buy the hat for say $5 dollars, would you? Then that would be something to contend and bring to SE's attention, but complaining that you don't have a hat that won't affect the content tier you obviously have access to is pretty silly. The hat is intended to wrangle in new people and help them get to the content you're already involved with.


---Edited for Clarification in reference to linked post---

[Starcade]

That's not the point of the concern!

Why should we have to pay for ZERO CONTENT, Camate, just to get the Beret?

Now, if you want to come out and admit this is the only way Square-Enix is going to get new players, fine! If you want to say we all psycho-XP to 90 in Abyssea anyway and don't need it - fine. But at least admit it!!

But it's an insult to my intelligence (cue jokes from the Cheater Brigade here) to have us (WHO ALREADY HAVE ALL THE CONTENT) pay $20 or whatever it is (WHEN WE PAID MORE JUST FOR ABYSSEA!) to get this Beret.

[Atima]

That's not the point of the concern!

Why should we have to pay for ZERO CONTENT, Camate, just to get the Beret?

Now, if you want to come out and admit this is the only way Square-Enix is going to get new players, fine! If you want to say we all psycho-XP to 90 in Abyssea anyway and don't need it - fine. But at least admit it!!

But it's an insult to my intelligence (cue jokes from the Cheater Brigade here) to have us (WHO ALREADY HAVE ALL THE CONTENT) pay $20 or whatever it is (WHEN WE PAID MORE JUST FOR ABYSSEA!) to get this Beret.

If you really want the hat so bad, just buy it. If you think it'll make that much of a difference beings you already have the Abyssea content and 1-30 will take so long that you need increased skill ups and movement speed that won't matter when you go from 31-90 in 24hrs with Abyssea leeching. Even from the standpoint of a person leveling the old way, 1-30 is a pretty small margin of the leveling experience.

Make a new thread and petition SE to make the hat available to everyone through a registration purchase for 5 bucks or something, but it doesn't make much sense for veteran players to complain that they don't get an item that is not intended for them in the first place.

If you already have the content then you don't need to buy this.

[bungiefan]

Considering it took me 8 years for my first 75, and 4 years for my first 30, playing casually, this is a very useful item to have for my remaining jobs. Only giving it free to new players is a slap in the face. Utility is similar to the Nexus Cape for me. As a PS2 player, buying every expansion at release was forced, since the discs would go out of print a month or two after expansion release.

[Yinnyth]

That's not the point of the concern!

Why should we have to pay for ZERO CONTENT, Camate, just to get the Beret?

Now, if you want to come out and admit this is the only way Square-Enix is going to get new players, fine! If you want to say we all psycho-XP to 90 in Abyssea anyway and don't need it - fine. But at least admit it!!

But it's an insult to my intelligence (cue jokes from the Cheater Brigade here) to have us (WHO ALREADY HAVE ALL THE CONTENT) pay $20 or whatever it is (WHEN WE PAID MORE JUST FOR ABYSSEA!) to get this Beret.

Maybe they'll grant your wish and offer to sell just the code for the beret for a mere $15 for people who don't want to pay the extra $5 for the expansions they already have. Also, you paid more for abyssea because it was new and shiny back then. Now it's the status quo, so it's not worth nearly as much as it used to be.

Also, claiming that this is an insult to your intelligence implies that you think they think you'll buy this for only the beret, though you personally believe the beret isn't worth the price they're asking. However, you most likely want this hat pretty badly, or maybe you're just like me and enjoy discussing the ethics behind this product. So I'm guessing you're torn currently: on one hand you really want this thing, on the other, you don't think it's worth $20.

What I'm interested in knowing is why you want the beret so badly. Do you still have several jobs below level 30 you intend to level soon? Do you want to own every costume-producing item you can get your hands on? Are you a collector who buys every FFXI related thing you're offered? Do you simply feel that you should be entitled to every item that is offered to any other player?

[scaevola]

That would be correct on the first point. If you can make a customer believe that it is more about them than the money, you're being smart. If people believe you care more about their wallet than them, they will shop around for someone who is easier on the wallet. It has nothing to do with reality. Even hospitals are about the bottom line. They don't ever want you to believe that. But, it's true. However, a good business makes you believe otherwise.

Or you could acknowledge the bottom line is your primary concern, which everyone who is not a child already understands, and appeal to customers without insulting their collective intelligence by providing a quality product at a reasonable price.

[Vivik]

Or you could acknowledge the bottom line is your primary concern, which everyone who is not a child already understands, and appeal to customers without insulting their collective intelligence by providing a quality product at a reasonable price.

They are offering a quality product at a reasonable price. What they should have done is include the hat within the serial code of the new software, that way only new people get em. Then you all could whine about why you are unable to get it at all.

[Volkai]

If you've been playing long enough to already own all the expansions and add-ons (which presumably means you're an advanced enough player to make use of all of them) then you probably don't need the newbie hat, which means there's no obligation for SE to hand it out to everyone for nothing.

Which means if you want the hat, buy the expansion and use the item code on your account.


If you're a new enough player to make use of the hat, chances are good that you haven't bought Abyssea yet, which means it's worth buying the new collection just for the Abyssea add-ons, and as a bonus you get a very nice hat to help you get to the point where you can start to enter Abyssea.



If you bought the Abyssea add-ons but are a new enough player to truly utilize the hat, then... I dunno. Why did you buy them when you couldn't really utilize them yet? If you want the hat badly enough then you'll shell out the money for it, and if you don't that's okay -- you can still do fine without the hat.

[Miiyo]

Let's do a consensus on this one SE. Take note of how many people are already have abyssea and are going to buy this simply for the item. If we will pay $20 for a hat (no one cares about the statue), feel free to make biggggg updates with a price tag of $200 :D

[scaevola]

They are offering a quality product at a reasonable price. What they should have done is include the hat within the serial code of the new software, that way only new people get em. Then you all could whine about why you are unable to get it at all.

I am pretty ambivalent about the hat. I am sure others will feel differently; after all, if people paid $40 for the Tidal Talisman they'll pay $20 for this. I also understand its function as a carrot for new players, and it makes sense to me: it's not about attracting new players, but rather the maybe couple hundred thousand who bought the game at its initial launch all that time ago and quit in rightful disgust after a week. The hat is a pretty bold way of saying HEY WE LISTENED AND THE LEVELING GAME YOU HATED SO MUCH IS A JOKE NOW. The goal is to convince those people to give FFXI a shot, because every change we've seen in the past five years has been towards making this game what those people wanted out of an FF MMO to begin with.

I mostly just take issue with apparently satisfied customers crying about how unjust it is that a publicly-traded company doesn't act like they care enough.

[deces]

First off I agree with all of the above, But what I want to know is why dose the Final Fantasy Vana'Diel Collection 3 not support the PS3?!... after all this time, and them wanting to get new people to hop on the ship. I would of thought this would of been the first thing they would of done. They could at least do this for the ps2 users who ended up with a free brick after the last epic fail update. I know many people who left after that non resolved issue. I mean come on guys really??

[Olor]

Well as someone who just restarted a couple months ago AND bought all the Abyssea expansions, I feel totally stabbed in the face by this. I only have 3 jobs at 30 or higher - so this would be incredibly useful but I guess my business isn't wanted.

[Olor]

So I guess no one had fun with abyssea the last like, 9 months its been out? lol

No, I have gone to Abyssea exactly 1 time besides just zoning in for the stones quest... and I paid 30 bucks for the three expansions less than a month ago.

I also have most of my jobs under 30. I am feeling pretty annoyed right now.

[Randwolf]

No, I have gone to Abyssea exactly 1 time besides just zoning in for the stones quest... and I paid 30 bucks for the three expansions less than a month ago.

I also have most of my jobs under 30. I am feeling pretty annoyed right now.
I sympathize with you. But, I'm wondering if you are all in a small boat. I don't know how many new players are joining daily. I have a hard time imagining this item will get anyone to play who would not have bought the collection in the first place, hat or no hat. Personally, the real incentive to a new player would be the lower price of the collection. Then, perhaps the no loss of experience below 31. As far as the hat, I'm not sure a non-player would know how good it is compared to other equipment at that level. And, thus be a tipping point for buying the game.

[scaevola]

I don't know how many new players are joining daily. I have a hard time imagining this item will get anyone to play who would not have bought the collection in the first place, hat or no hat. Personally, the real incentive to a new player would be the lower price of the collection.

Leaving aside the fact that SE's been selling these annual collections at $20 for years now, sometimes I think people forget this is a 9-year-old game and that $20 (to say nothing of a monthly fee) is still a pretty stiff asking price for a PC game from 2002.

I suspect very few new players are joining, which actually I think pushes me into the "hats for everybody" column; a player like Olor who dropped $50 (all three abyssea expansions!) on a PC game almost a decade old that wasn't even a paradigm-shifting success in its heyday ought not miss out on this opportunity. Taking such a chance should be rewarded.


As far as the hat, I'm not sure a non-player would know how good it is compared to other equipment at that level. And, thus be a tipping point for buying the game.

As I mentioned, I think it is extremely unlikely the hat is directed at people who have never played FFXI before.

[Akujima]

...I don't see anything wrong with them getting more money out of this game.. It's a very old game now, and any profit they can turn out of it is a good thing. Just look at the state of FFXIV and it's not hard to see that they're in an ugly place right now financially. (That game is just sitting there like a black hole, costing them money and going nowhere fast.)

So you're happy with people jipping you out of your money?

And how is it our fault that they failed on FFXIV? But you seem to think it's okay for us pay for their mistakes, all the while we get trash dumped on FFXI and it's player base.

[Olor]

I suspect very few new players are joining, which actually I think pushes me into the "hats for everybody" column; a player like Olor who dropped $50 (all three abyssea expansions!) on a PC game almost a decade old that wasn't even a paradigm-shifting success in its heyday ought not miss out on this opportunity. Taking such a chance should be rewarded.


That's my thought too. I feel like I am being punished for wanting to play... which is whack.

[Seha]

I won't cry at night for not having a hat, but it's incredibly stupid that I'm not allowed to get it because I bought the same stuff before they offered the cookie to encourage people to do the same thing I've done already. It's just really upsetting, it doesn't make any sense.