About the Abyssea areas

[Krystal]

I can't find any nice way to put this..so i will try to make it as kindly as possible....

Ever since Abyssea has been introduced players have gotten LAZY..and i mean seriously LAZY....it seems none care about the fact they are so under skilled it's not even funny when they have a level 90. this to be frank..is stupid. players are abusing the abyssea zones and using them for easy leveling from 30 and up. i have partied so often with players in areas such as dyna a few other end game areas and have been shocked and annoyed at the fact these players could not hit the broad side of a barn! this is only one of the side effects of abyssea being introduced with such a low statue of limitation. another result from this abuse all the normal zones have been nearly empty. just a few scarce parties here and there. nothing like it used to be. as a result i have seen new players to the game leave less than a week after first joining asking questions to me such as"where are the parties?!" and "Are zones usually this empty in this game?"(as i am a mentor on the server) my suggestion is this. put a higher level limitation on all abyssea areas. such as level 70 and higher only. This will not only encourage players to level in normal areas so that they skill up properly for end game areas..but will give new players a decent fighting chance at experiencing the fun and excitement of FFXI.

[Nickdogg]

Here here!

[Rionaheart]

I'm with you guys and must be said to quote could not hit the broad side of a barn! Abyssea should be 70 or 75+ coz if you are new to abyssea at 75 with no atamas you still miss quite a lot till around lv 80 and if you have atamas then 70 is good enought i hope se does increase the level cap of the areas for abyssea i have been playing this game for yrs and still lots to do and you are right ppl are now just getting lazy and leaching.

[Corydor]

I agree with this whole heartedly, people will always use quick ways instead of hard work because people are lazy :( it is a known fact. As for you example of dynamis, my group introduced a whm not long ago everything was fine till someone died. All he did was raise 1 the player we asked why he said he hadn't got raise 2 or raise 3 because he leveled it in abyssea quickly and he couldn't afford the spells >.< now no offense if a level 90 don't have the key spells they they have no right to be 90 :(

Soooooooooooooo please raise the level cap to 70+ so that things can get back to normal, not to mention the economy in most areas would recover since people would be farming more while they party :)

[kaht]

I dunno about you, but I've seen a lot more people leveling up outside of Abyssea since the xp was doubled and FoV once a day restriction was removed.

I got BRD from 1-42 this weekend, outside Abyssea, just playing semi-casually. Guess what? All my skills are gimped cause I leveled way faster than my skills would go up. How is that any different than Abyssea?

What if I level sync 18-90 in qufim? My skills won't be capped any more than they would be if I key'd the job to 90. How is that any different than Abyssea?

If they put a 75 cap on Abyssea now, how is that any fair to people that never got to take advantage of leveling their characters up there 30-75?

[Krystal]

I'm with you guys and must be said to quote could not hit the broad side of a barn! Abyssea should be 70 or 75+ coz if you are new to abyssea at 75 with no atamas you still miss quite a lot till around lv 80 and if you have atamas then 70 is good enought i hope se does increase the level cap of the areas for abyssea i have been playing this game for yrs and still lots to do and you are right ppl are now just getting lazy and leaching.

This has been something that has been eating at me since the release of abyssea. i am a hardcore player and strong believer in the fact levels should be earned..not given on a silver platter. SE nearly signed FFXI's death warrant when they released abyssea. new players don't know what to do and leave because they have no idea how to level or learn how to do alot of the fun things in FFXI. i down right refuse to level ANY JOB AT ALL in those zones. i frankly down right hate abyssea for the fact it's killing FFXI as it is right now. the only time i have anything to do with it is when i have to merit on one of my level 90 jobs. and the armor..forget it! i want nothing to do with it.

[Krystal]

I dunno about you, but I've seen a lot more people leveling up outside of Abyssea since the xp was doubled and FoV once a day restriction was removed.

I got BRD from 1-42 this weekend, outside Abyssea, just playing semi-casually. Guess what? All my skills are gimped cause I leveled way faster than my skills would go up. How is that any different than Abyssea?

What if I level sync 18-90 in qufim? My skills won't be capped any more than they would be if I key'd the job to 90. How is that any different than Abyssea?

If they put a 75 cap on Abyssea now, how is that any fair to people that never got to take advantage of leveling their characters up there 30-75?

Frankly i find that the exp increase in non-abyssea areas was yet another blunder on SE's part. i do not support it at all but i can't necessarily say the exp boost isn't nice. but i think it was more intended towards soloers than anything. as for the difference. you can take the time to skill yourself up between levels while in a party. when unlike in abyssea you just run around opening chests not doing a damned thing and your levels shoot up ten times faster in there than in normal areas.

Edit: also on a side note...bards have ALWAYS had trouble keeping their skill levels up....so that's sort of a irrelevant example there.

[Eeek]

Abyssea is fine. In regards to this thread, all Abyssea does is expose lazy/poor players. It's not a new phenomenon. Lazy/poor players have always existed, and they always will exist. The good players have their spells and their weapons skilled up. It's not difficult by any means.

I'd like to see the Level 30 restriction on Abyssea stay in place. I don't mind that people use Abyssea to level jobs quickly. The good players will play those jobs well, and the poor players will play their new jobs poorly. I like the fact that Abyssea is widely accessible to most players, and I hope it stays that way.

Furthermore, Abyssea's accessibility is to SE's financial benefit. How many people chose not to buy ToAU until they reached the relevant job level? How many players never reached the mid50s? Did this cost SE sales revenue? If Abyssea's level requirement of 30 encourages newer players (the few that actually exist) to buy the Abyssea expansions and join their high-level friends in the areas, then it benefits SE. When SE releases more download-able expansions in the future, I'd imagine that they also will have low barriers for entry.

[Krystal]

Abyssea is fine. In regards to this thread, all Abyssea does is expose lazy/poor players. It's not a new phenomenon. Lazy/poor players have always existed, and they always will exist. The good players have their spells and their weapons skilled up. It's not difficult by any means.

I'd like to see the Level 30 restriction on Abyssea stay in place. I don't mind that people use Abyssea to level jobs quickly. The good players will play those jobs well, and the poor players will play their new jobs poorly. I like the fact that Abyssea is widely accessible to most players, and I hope it stays that way.

Furthermore, Abyssea's accessibility is to SE's financial benefit. How many people chose not to buy ToAU until they reached the relevant job level? How many players never reached the mid50s? Did this cost SE sales revenue? If Abyssea's level requirement of 30 encourages newer players (the few that actually exist) to buy the Abyssea expansions and join their high-level friends in the areas, then it benefits SE. When SE releases more download-able expansions in the future, I'd imagine that they also will have low barriers for entry.

with players like you...who needs a level cap? oh hell..why not just remove the cap completely! ya..sure..level 1 jobs march on in! who needs to even get to level 30 right?
....
in case you could not tell i was being morbidly sarcastic......-_-;
the level cap needs to be raised...simple as that. i don't want to see FFXI die. and at this rate...with things as they are. it will! what do you think this server merge is about? more players to play with? no! it's because the player population has dropped and new players are leaving no sooner they join. why? because no one levels in normal areas! and those who do only to level 30 then they join the abyssea gravy train to level 90 and don't know how to play their jobs and can't hit the broad side of a barn!

[kaht]

Umm.... umad?

[Krystal]

Umm.... umad?

please don't make me post a forum macro for derailing a thread...XD keep replies on topic with the thread plz...hehe

[kaht]

Ok, here's on topic - this argument has been beaten to death over the last 8 months. 1 person says put a cap on the zone, everybody else says no thanks. Wait 2 weeks, another thread pops up.

Lather.
Rinse.
Repeat.

[Krystal]

Ok, here's on topic - this argument has been beaten to death over the last 8 months. 1 person says put a cap on the zone, everybody else says no thanks. Wait 2 weeks, another thread pops up.

Lather.
Rinse.
Repeat.

ya well i'll necro this thread if i have to so that it gets through the higher ups in SE that something is WRONG with the level cap and abyssea as a whole. and please reply with something that contributes to the thread. your reply was an attempt at killing the discussion all together. that's rather annoying.

[kaht]

that's rather annoying.

So, it fits the theme of the thread.

[Teakwood]

Skillups are easy to get.

People who don't have any idea how to play their jobs? This -always- happened. I've partied with a million idiots who hit 75 pre-abyssea and didn't know their way out of a paper bag with two hands and a map. Just be thankful it makes the game less of a mindless grind for those of us who -do- know what we're doing.

It is still pretty brutally difficult to get your first job to 90; I'm guiding a number of new players through the game at the moment and while removed level caps are a godsend (I'll admit I'm glad I did CoP while it was difficult, but by the same token I enjoy being able to blitz missions for friends) it's very difficult to make the first climb to 90 if you're new to the game. The levels in between around 45 and 70 are -completely brutal- unless you know people who'll let you leech in Abyssea or have a low-man XP group that meets consistently. I'm not sure what could be done to counteract this that hasn't already been done, to be honest, but if I -do- have a problem with the ease of Abyssea XP, it's that it has become incredibly difficult to put together "old school" XP parties. In a lot of ways I consider this an acceptable loss as there are alternatives and I hate XP grinding, however.

[Krystal]

Skillups are easy to get.

People who don't have any idea how to play their jobs? This -always- happened. I've partied with a million idiots who hit 75 pre-abyssea and didn't know their way out of a paper bag with two hands and a map. Just be thankful it makes the game less of a mindless grind for those of us who -do- know what we're doing.

It is still pretty brutally difficult to get your first job to 90; I'm guiding a number of new players through the game at the moment and while removed level caps are a godsend (I'll admit I'm glad I did CoP while it was difficult, but by the same token I enjoy being able to blitz missions for friends) it's very difficult to make the first climb to 90 if you're new to the game. The levels in between around 45 and 70 are -completely brutal- unless you know people who'll let you leech in Abyssea or have a low-man XP group that meets consistently. I'm not sure what could be done to counteract this that hasn't already been done, to be honest, but if I -do- have a problem with the ease of Abyssea XP, it's that it has become incredibly difficult to put together "old school" XP parties. In a lot of ways I consider this an acceptable loss as there are alternatives and I hate XP grinding, however.

level grinding has ALWAYS and will ALWAYS be a part of MMOs as a whole. The point however is earning these levels in a fashion that is enjoyable but difficult enough that you can look back and say"ya...i earned those levels! i worked my tail off for every single one of them!" if not for bragging rights it is something you can look back on and take pride in. When a player brags about his level 90 he got over night in abyssea it's nothing more than a hollow achievement for them. they didn't earn those levels. they had them handed to them. players like them are what make MMO not as enjoyable if not annoying for us players who work for our levels and look back at the pre-abyssea days and remember what it was like to work with others for them. i myself have many fond memories of those days. now at days however i look at FFXI's current state and want to beat the crap out of the guy(s) who even mentioned the idea of "Abyssea". it's not a matter of jealousy as it is the fact that players take for granted what they got. they have no idea how to play their jobs. leave FFXI in it's current state the it will die an horrible death that includes thousands of players who don't know how to play their jobs for crap.

[Leylia]

I also vote for a 75+ restriction for the Abyssea areas like the OP. I sea no valid reason why the hell it should be accessable to a character level 30+ Everything in the zone and may it be the weakest monster there is, will one shot that character and if it were done, would annihilate a whole level 30 alliance within a mere fraction of a minute. So why allow a character to join those areas.

Going there is absolutly pointless at that level. Oh it is not? It is for leveling I hear? Leveling what? If a character lv 30 "levels in there" it is nothing else than leeching while doing nothing and even if you are the chest opener, all you do is /item "forbidden key" <t> which cannot be considered leveling in my opinion. It is just plain wrong.

Not only does it leave you without skill ups or actual training for your so "awesomely leveled job" but it also destroys all the other zones outside of Abyssea and the meaning of leveling up itself. Can one possibly be proud of a character leeched from 30 to 90 in a day? Can one possibly feel accomplished about that? If so, for what? "Yay I got 15 level 90 jobs in a month!!!" maybe? Honestly, awesome done, really, your better at leeching than a Poison Leech from Buburimu, I'd be proud of that as well.


The levels in between around 45 and 70 are -completely brutal- unless you know people who'll let you leech in Abyssea or have a low-man XP group that meets consistently.
Oh yeah, is that so? Is that why you want the cap to stay so low? Now let us think about why it is so "unnamely brutal to find a good working XP party, du or trio! I give you five seconds, 1, 2 ... actually I just name it: It is exactly that low Abyssea requirment. I have gotten answers of level 40s like "No, I am waiting for an Abyssea shout where I can be the key person" or "No, I only accept Abyssea". All I could do is shake my head at these people.


1 person says put a cap on the zone, everybody else says no thanks. Wait 2 weeks, another thread pops up.
1 person every 2 weeks and EVERYONE else is against it? Uhm let us just go through this thread: I count... 1, uhm, 2, oh look there a 3rd... that's already worth 6 weeks of 1 vs all fighting. Honestly, your judgment is far of. Almost all the people I know would vote for a higher level requirment namely 75+ or even 80+ and I can see many more people in this thread already than you are ready to acknowledge.

To populate the normal maps again and bring back the fun of leveling up, Abyssea has to be closed for lower levels for good. I didn't enjoy myself as much as I did about a month ago, when I actually got a party in East Ronfaure [S] with my lv 62 THF (I was more than ready to sync it down to finally do a party out of abyssea) when the XP was still so "awefully low and leveling even more brutal and humiliating" than it is now. I rather work for my level than doing nothing and leeching and so I stayed there for about 6hours and not a single minute has been boring, while leeching in Abyssea is boring from the first minute on!

[Krystal]

I also vote for a 75+ restriction for the Abyssea areas like the OP. I sea no valid reason why the hell it should be accessable to a character level 30+ Everything in the zone and may it be the weakest monster there is, will one shot that character and if it were done, would annihilate a whole level 30 alliance within a mere fraction of a minute. So why allow a character to join those areas.

Going there is absolutly pointless at that level. Oh it is not? It is for leveling I hear? Leveling what? If a character lv 30 "levels in there" it is nothing else than leeching while doing nothing and even if you are the chest opener, all you do is /item "forbidden key" <t> which cannot be considered leveling in my opinion. It is just plain wrong.

Not only does it leave you without skill ups or actual training for your so "awesomely leveled job" but it also destroys all the other zones outside of Abyssea and the meaning of leveling up itself. Can one possibly be proud of a character leeched from 30 to 90 in a day? Can one possibly feel accomplished about that? If so, for what? "Yay I got 15 level 90 jobs in a month!!!" maybe? Honestly, awesome done, really, your better at leeching than a Poison Leech from Buburimu, I'd be proud of that as well.


Oh yeah, is that so? Is that why you want the cap to stay so low? Now let us think about why it is so "unnamely brutal to find a good working XP party, du or trio! I give you five seconds, 1, 2 ... actually I just name it: It is exactly that low Abyssea requirment. I have gotten answers of level 40s like "No, I am waiting for an Abyssea shout where I can be the key person" or "No, I only accept Abyssea". All I could do is shake my head at these people.


1 person every 2 weeks and EVERYONE else is against it? Uhm let us just go through this thread: I count... 1, uhm, 2, oh look there a 3rd... that's already worth 6 weeks of 1 vs all fighting. Honestly, your judgment is far of. Almost all the people I know would vote for a higher level requirment namely 75+ or even 80+ and I can see many more people in this thread already than you are ready to acknowledge.

To populate the normal maps again and bring back the fun of leveling up, Abyssea has to be closed for lower levels for good. I didn't enjoy myself as much as I did about a month ago, when I actually got a party in East Ronfaure [S] with my lv 62 THF (I was more than ready to sync it down to finally do a party out of abyssea) when the XP was still so "awefully low and leveling even more brutal and humiliating" than it is now. I rather work for my level than doing nothing and leeching and so I stayed there for about 6hours and not a single minute has been boring, while leeching in Abyssea is boring from the first minute on!

as i make one hell of a quote...i have one thing to say to this....THANK YOU! someone who not only agrees with my statement but has flat out made every single ney-sayer's reply irrelevant in a matter of fairness. i gotta bow to you on this...your reply not only was contributing to this thread but proved many valid points and reenforced many of my own^^

I agree with you on the fact it is boring inside of abyssea...i don't know what else to say really as you have basically just covered anything i could think of at the moment...^^;

[Greatguardian]

No one is forcing anyone to exp in Abyssea. Players who wish to grind their levels the old fashioned way have that option. Personally, I appreciate being able to take a job up to 90 in a week or two if I want to try it out. Leveling isn't hard, but being competent, well-geared, and properly skilled requires just as much effort as it did before Abyssea's release.

It's a long-standing tradition at this point for malcontents to blame the "Death of FFXI" and all of their in-game woes on the most recent expansion or patch. To be honest, it becomes increasingly difficult for any experienced player to take rants like this seriously because of how common they are. With any given change in the game, some people will like it and some will not. However, what really does bother me about this particular wave of criticism is that those unhappy with Abyssea seem to blame Abyssea for bad players while negating said player's responsibility for their own actions.

No matter what system SE decides to implement in FFXI, someone, somewhere will figure out how to abuse it. Even if Abyssea EXP and/or entry requirements were nerfed, people could just Summoner Burn if they were so inclined. The problem is not Abyssea, or any other game mechanic. If players burn themselves up to 90 and then don't buy spells, skill up their weapons/magics, or buy even basic gear, then the player themselves is the one at fault. They are responsible for their own character, their own skills, and their own spells.

Now here's what people fail to realize: If you're somehow being inconvenienced by one of these lazy players, e.g., you're in a Dynamis or an Abyssea group with a WHM who doesn't have Raise 2 or Curaga 3, you can always elect to not participate with said person or to inform your group's leader and ask that said person be replaced by someone with proper spells and skills. This is not as hard as it sounds. Many people are absolutely terrified of being "rude" to lazy players these days, and because of this they end up very frustrated. I would be frustrated too if I was "forced" to do things with obviously incompetent people for the sake of being polite or nice.

However, the nice thing about Abyssea is that you don't need a swarm of 18 people to get anything done right now. If you yourself are a competent person, you will doubtlessly be able to find a couple other sensible, competent people to complete Abyssea and other events with. Who cares what lazy people do? How does it affect you? As much as I dislike the age-old "$12.95" argument, as long as someone is not actively interfering with my ability to enjoy the game I could really care less what they do.

[Rionaheart]

as i make one hell of a quote...i have one thing to say to this....THANK YOU! someone who not only agrees with my statement but has flat out made every single ney-sayer's reply irrelevant in a matter of fairness. i gotta bow to you on this...your reply not only was contributing to this thread but proved many valid points and reenforced many of my own^^

I agree with you on the fact it is boring inside of abyssea...i don't know what else to say really as you have basically just covered anything i could think of at the moment...^^;

Here here.

[Krystal]

No one is forcing anyone to exp in Abyssea. Players who wish to grind their levels the old fashioned way have that option. Personally, I appreciate being able to take a job up to 90 in a week or two if I want to try it out. Leveling isn't hard, but being competent, well-geared, and properly skilled requires just as much effort as it did before Abyssea's release.

It's a long-standing tradition at this point for malcontents to blame the "Death of FFXI" and all of their in-game woes on the most recent expansion or patch. To be honest, it becomes increasingly difficult for any experienced player to take rants like this seriously because of how common they are. With any given change in the game, some people will like it and some will not. However, what really does bother me about this particular wave of criticism is that those unhappy with Abyssea seem to blame Abyssea for bad players while negating said player's responsibility for their own actions.

No matter what system SE decides to implement in FFXI, someone, somewhere will figure out how to abuse it. Even if Abyssea EXP and/or entry requirements were nerfed, people could just Summoner Burn if they were so inclined. The problem is not Abyssea, or any other game mechanic. If players burn themselves up to 90 and then don't buy spells, skill up their weapons/magics, or buy even basic gear, then the player themselves is the one at fault. They are responsible for their own character, their own skills, and their own spells.

Now here's what people fail to realize: If you're somehow being inconvenienced by one of these lazy players, e.g., you're in a Dynamis or an Abyssea group with a WHM who doesn't have Raise 2 or Curaga 3, you can always elect to not participate with said person or to inform your group's leader and ask that said person be replaced by someone with proper spells and skills. This is not as hard as it sounds. Many people are absolutely terrified of being "rude" to lazy players these days, and because of this they end up very frustrated. I would be frustrated too if I was "forced" to do things with obviously incompetent people for the sake of being polite or nice.

However, the nice thing about Abyssea is that you don't need a swarm of 18 people to get anything done right now. If you yourself are a competent person, you will doubtlessly be able to find a couple other sensible, competent people to complete Abyssea and other events with. Who cares what lazy people do? How does it affect you? As much as I dislike the age-old "$12.95" argument, as long as someone is not actively interfering with my ability to enjoy the game I could really care less what they do.

SE is just as fault as the players are. perhaps they knew players would abuse the system..perhaps they didn't...but that don't change the fact that abyssea IS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT. and don't feed me the "people complain all the time about an expansion killing the game" line. because in this cause IT IS VALID. before abyssea was introduced. i could find a party in nearly 30 mins flat for most areas. i was helping new players each day because i was able to group together players to help them level and learn their job. now i find myself unable to help new players and see them leave FFXI less than a week after they joined. so yes... ABYSSEA IS AT FAULT. but so are the lazy players.

[Greatguardian]

SE is just as fault as the players are. perhaps they knew players would abuse the system..perhaps they didn't...but that don't change the fact that abyssea IS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT. and don't feed me the "people complain all the time about an expansion killing the game" line. because in this cause IT IS VALID. before abyssea was introduced. i could find a party in nearly 30 mins flat for most areas. i was helping new players each day because i was able to group together players to help them level and learn their job. now i find myself unable to help new players and see them leave FFXI less than a week after they joined. so yes... ABYSSEA IS AT FAULT. but so are the lazy players.

Abyssea is a system. Players can abuse that system if they choose.

Steak knives are sharp. People can stab each other with them if they choose.

Is it the steak knife's fault for being sharp? The knife manufacturer should have known that selling sharp objects to people would result in people stabbing each other.

Instead of blaming Abyssea, you'll do a lot more to fix the "problem" by simply not working with lazy players. If players find themselves unable to get a group for things because they're unskilled, ungeared, and lack important spells, then they're more likely to put some modicum of effort into their characters. That, or they'll complain about it incessantly in Port Jeuno. Either way, it doesn't really bother me since I won't be playing with them anyways.

I quote "problem" because this is exactly what happened years ago when ToAU was released. Everyone was so upset over new players being able to get 1-75 in a month spamming Colibri compared to their old school Moon and Bibiki haunts. There will always be bad players. No, leveling up slower and less efficiently will not make them learn their jobs, level their skills, or buy their spells. Unless you actually want to go exp in Ro'Maeve, I don't think you have much ground to stand on here.

[Quedari]

Noobs will be noobs regardless of how fast or slow they level a job. Many people in my LS have leveled many jobs from 30 to 90 in just a few days. We gear correctly and play the jobs just fine. We go skill up our weapons and magic to make our jobs more useful, and skilling up takes a lot less time than leveling "old school". A "good" player can play any job in this game just from watching what other players do right and wrong. Abyssea doesn't make bad players. Bad players make bad players.

[Leylia]

Abyssea is a system. Players can abuse that system if they choose.

Steak knives are sharp. People can stab each other with them if they choose.

I am sorry to say it, but this is a lousy comparison. Especially with your conclusion that follows after it. The major difference you do not want to see is: in the first case the abuse of the "Abyssea system" can be prevented very easily by adding the said level requirement at 75+. With the knifes, not so much. The comparison would be valid if there was a simple way to shut of access to the knife for such misuses of the knife, like a mood detector or what not. So before using something so unfitting, better keep RL comparisons out of the thread.

And btw you keep ignoring one of the main issues: you keep telling we do not have to use abyssea we can decide on our own not to do it and party outside. This is true, as long as there are people to party with outside. However, many cases have proven that this isexactly one of the issues, the one you keep neglecting. See my example of "No, I only accept Abyssea invites" So despite true in theory, it is false in reality.

So lets resume this: There is a system which can be abused, that abusage causes major issues for several other systems involved in the game which would be much more hard to fix, however there is a simple fix to prevent this said abusage. Where would you search the fault? If you still don't get the point I don't know.

With one thing you are right though: there always will be bad players, there will always be players unwilling to buy their spells and what not. The thing is: this is NOT the only issue and that it makes THIS issue much more apparent

[Krystal]

I am sorry to say it, but this is a lousy comparison. Especially with your conclusion that follows after it. The major difference you do not want to see is: in the first case the abuse of the "Abyssea system" can be prevented very easily by adding the said level requirement at 75+. With the knifes, not so much. The comparison would be valid if there was a simple way to shut of access to the knife for such misuses of the knife, like a mood detector or what not. So before using something so unfitting, better keep RL comparisons out of the thread.

And btw you keep ignoring one of the main issues: you keep telling we do not have to use abyssea we can decide on our own not to do it and party outside. This is true, as long as there are people to party with outside. However, many cases have proven that this isexactly one of the issues, the one you keep neglecting. See my example of "No, I only accept Abyssea invites" So despite true in theory, it is false in reality.

So lets resume this: There is a system which can be abused, that abusage causes major issues for several other systems involved in the game which would be much more hard to fix, however there is a simple fix to prevent this said abusage. Where would you search the fault? If you still don't get the point I don't know.

With one thing you are right though: there always will be bad players, there will always be players unwilling to buy their spells and what not. The thing is: this is NOT the only issue and that it makes THIS issue much more apparent

EXACTLY! people are constantly dancing around the real issue...which i find epically retarded...what it boils down to it this....people want to keep the cap at 30 so they can charge their level 30s in burn to 90 and then hap-hazardly skill up somehow elsewhere. but this is JUST THE PROBLEM becuase people are charging into abyssea no sooner they hit 90 the new players who come to the game and hard core players who enjoy old school style parties are being hurt. and frankly..the old school players and the new players are out-weighing the scales here as far as i can tell. players may bitch if the cap is raised to 70 or 75..but guess what? it will be as it was before then. players working together to earn their levels. which means you'll get more out of the game. frankly i'd rather take a months to a year and fully enjoy the game then blast to 90 and be bored in less than a month....

[Cream_Soda]

Like I said in your other thread.

If you're a good player, you can pick up a lv 90 account and have it down within a day or two, even if you've never played the job before.

"earning" levels really does nothing.

Research your job, skill up as necessary and you'll be fine.

You think all the people who lv sync the majority of their levels will have capped skills hitting 90 as well?

[Wenceslao]

Abyss hasn't killed the game, we are killing it by doing only abyssea pt, abyssea missions, abyssea quest, and abyssea related tasks, i think there's a lot of people who still would like to finish Missions, to do BCNM, to get assaults or other end game activities, new players uses abyss leeching because there are not enough low leveled players lfp, SE tried to solve these issue by raising exp received from mobs and doing FoV usable mora than once in a in-game day, now we have the oportunity to give new life to the zones now forgoten in favor of abyssea, peronally i enjoy more a normal yhutunga, yhoator, quicksands, garbage s#@tadel, aht urgan pt, than leeching all the way, we should help new players with this, putting the example, how many of us has spent hours leveling his/her job in these camps, or skillung up on Boyada Tree, we can show them how is done by reviving these zones by ourselves, i think there's a lot of new players who still don't know the old camps, who still need help with missions, or something alike.

[Greatguardian]

I am sorry to say it, but this is a lousy comparison. Especially with your conclusion that follows after it. The major difference you do not want to see is: in the first case the abuse of the "Abyssea system" can be prevented very easily by adding the said level requirement at 75+. With the knifes, not so much. The comparison would be valid if there was a simple way to shut of access to the knife for such misuses of the knife, like a mood detector or what not. So before using something so unfitting, better keep RL comparisons out of the thread.

And btw you keep ignoring one of the main issues: you keep telling we do not have to use abyssea we can decide on our own not to do it and party outside. This is true, as long as there are people to party with outside. However, many cases have proven that this isexactly one of the issues, the one you keep neglecting. See my example of "No, I only accept Abyssea invites" So despite true in theory, it is false in reality.

So lets resume this: There is a system which can be abused, that abusage causes major issues for several other systems involved in the game which would be much more hard to fix, however there is a simple fix to prevent this said abusage. Where would you search the fault? If you still don't get the point I don't know.

With one thing you are right though: there always will be bad players, there will always be players unwilling to buy their spells and what not. The thing is: this is NOT the only issue and that it makes THIS issue much more apparent

I'm sure people would find a way to abuse Abyssea even if there was a level 75 requirement. This is what people do. When they want to abuse something, they find a way. Also, players are not children. You are required to be at least 13 years old to play this game, and Square Enix Inc. takes that into account when designing content. Last I checked, high schools, universities, and businesses did not stock Safety Scissors.

Regardless, you're saying the problem with Abyssea is that it prevents you from finding people to level with in the overworld. At the same time, other people are saying that this is a widespread complaint and there are a decent amount of people who are upset about Abyssea and want to do things the old fashioned way. These two ideas are mutually exclusive. If enough people dislike Abyssea leveling for it to be a valid complaint and not just the musing of an incredibly vocal minority, then these same people should realistically be capable of finding other like-minded people to EXP with. They may even, le gasp, create a linkshell together specifically to get together and exp in the overworld. Heck, the server merge should make this even easier!

Do you not see the fundamental flaw with your argument though? "Other people are doing things differently than I like. No one wants to do things the way I want to do them. Fix it so that everyone has to do things the way I want."

I'm not trying to be some casual "It's just a game" parrot here. In actuality I'm a complete elitist jerk. 110%. I chuckle when I see really dumb shouts, or people doing really dumb things. But in the end, absolutely none of it changes the way I play and enjoy the game. Being one of the few remaining players these days who actually did go exp in Bibiki and Ro'Maeve back when they were leet exp, I'll tell you right now I have no real desire to grind out for two weeks of absolute boredom just to get a job from 37 to 90. Some people enjoy pressing the same macros 500,000 times over. You're more than welcome to it. But don't expect me to change my playstyle to fit your needs, just as I won't expect you to change yours to fit mine. You can continue calling every Abyssea-leecher a lazy gimp all you want, and I'll continue laughing at Perle gear. Just don't expect the system to change to suit your style. You don't want to know what the "Elitist Jerk" community could come up with if "Consumer pressure" and ranting threads on the official forums actually influenced FFXI_Dev.

[Cream_Soda]

If they raised the lv cap in abyssea, people would just get rich off smn burn pulls again and that'd be the popular thing at 600+/kill

[Krystal]

Like I said in your other thread.

If you're a good player, you can pick up a lv 90 account and have it down within a day or two, even if you've never played the job before.

"earning" levels really does nothing.

Research your job, skill up as necessary and you'll be fine.

You think all the people who lv sync the majority of their levels will have capped skills hitting 90 as well?

THAT'S NOT THE DAMNED POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Once again beating around the REAL ISSUE New players are leaving the game no sooner they join because NO ONE IS IN NORMAL ZONES TO TEACH THEM! or they are like most MMO players and want to party with others rather than solo,besides it's not a matter of burning to 90 THEN researching the job...the bases of earning the levels and working with other players is to learn it naturally....not read some damned tutorial manual and go"okay..i got it!" *goes and gets self killed 10 times over* *goes back and reads again* "oh, i know i got it this time!" *gets self killed 10 more times* that's the difference between learning the job naturally and reading some damned tutorial page.

[Krystal]

If they raised the lv cap in abyssea, people would just get rich off smn burn pulls again and that'd be the popular thing at 600+/kill

ya..but that itself has a bigger limit on it than abyssea does. it's limited to how many smns they have their 2hrs, and if they can find a job to sync to....

[PizzaTheHut]

Ok, here's on topic - this argument has been beaten to death over the last 8 months.

Not on this forum where it can be heard.

The level cap needs to be raised. As an old school player I'm tired of dealing with tourist players who know nothing about their job nor even the basic principles of it.

Yes great you brought your friend in to the game and now they get three level ninety jobs in two weeks. What's worse is when the job is WHM(severely under leveled healing skill) etc.

[Greatguardian]

besides it's not a matter of burning to 90 THEN researching the job...the bases of earning the levels and working with other players is to learn it naturally....not read some damned tutorial manual and go"okay..i got it!" *goes and gets self killed 10 times over* *goes back and reads again* "oh, i know i got it this time!" *gets self killed 10 more times* that's the difference between learning the job naturally and reading some damned tutorial page.

Two part question: How much about your jobs and gear mechanics did you learn *On your own from exp'ing* as opposed to on community sites or wiki?

Part 2: How much do you actually know about how the game works?

This is important. I promise you, 99.9% of players are not going to magically notice that increases in dMND increase their Slow potency just by exp'ing.

[Starcade]

Lazy is the _kind way_ to put a lot of these louts.

I mean, it's almost gotten to the point that a party leader in Abyssea has to keep an eye that there isn't at least a third of his party AFK, leeching the crap out of the situation (with the exception of the occasional cash-in of their Dominion Ops or, worse, a ninja-lot).

But these louts will tell that doing that is "playing smarter" -- that it's actually better for them to AFK and do nothing for the party and get all the relevant benefits.

[Cream_Soda]

Well, unless you're Kirschy, researching is going to make you a better player than learning it "naturally".

You don't just pull all the game formulas out of your rear. Every person who researches their job is going to have the potential to be a better player than those who do not.

Period.

[Rionaheart]

everyone that thinks Abyssea should be capped at 75+ will just laugh at everyone that wants it to stay @ 30 cap i really do hope SE reads these posts and caps it at 75 so all us players that love the game as it was before Abyssea can go yeah.... Ha Ha you cant leach Abyssea any more.

[Starcade]

Not on this forum where it can be heard.

The level cap needs to be raised. As an old school player I'm tired of dealing with tourist players who know nothing about their job nor even the basic principles of it.


Raising the level cap is not going to do that, and you know this.

There is an attitude (problem) of MOST of the (esp. NA) players -- the ends justify the means, and they don't care how bad they abuse every conceivable system in the game. As I just said in the other post on this thread, Abyssea (and I had hoped this would blow up the power structure in the game) has made this 100 times worse.

I mean, if you want an extreme case, I once saw a YouTube video of a level 75 Black Mage with I believe AF2 gear.

Once he removed his gear, we saw the ugly truth: The guy had ZERO magic skill. NADA. NONE.

That kind of crap needs to be reported and stopped.

[Wenceslao]

I really think SE has nothing to do with it, we are the problem, if we keep allowing more than one leech per pt, well... look at the results, if SE raise lvl cap for abyss, the ppls will just find another way, we should put the example and do some old school pt on old zone some times to teach new players how is done (well its my humble opinion), really guys its in ourself to put a balance on the game, remember old times when even get a dynamis ls was a great task, as even 75ppls would be rejected if they didn't know its roll, we can do much on this game without being really ekitist, we should teach new ppls how was done and how should be done, if we as pt leader just forbid leeching well it could be a start, but those new players would be discouraged to keep playing, but if instead we start pting again in old zones, they would be encouraged to do it, SE has even raised exp received upon killing mobs in outside abyssea zones, think about it guys, we have not blame new players or SE, we all are vana'diel

[Greatguardian]

everyone that thinks Abyssea should be capped at 75+ will just laugh at everyone that wants it to stay @ 30 cap i really do hope SE reads these posts and caps it at 75 so all us players that love the game as it was before Abyssea can go yeah.... Ha Ha you cant leach Abyssea any more.

So malicious. Does it really affect you that much? I'm thinking no. As my post on the previous page already iterated, if there are enough people who hate Abyssea EXP for it to matter, they can just find each other and exp together. I'm sure plenty of players like myself would love to have an IQ and Spelling test attached to the character creation screen, but we all know that will never happen.

[PizzaTheHut]

Lazy is the _kind way_ to put a lot of these louts.

I mean, it's almost gotten to the point that a party leader in Abyssea has to keep an eye that there isn't at least a third of his party AFK, leeching the crap out of the situation (with the exception of the occasional cash-in of their Dominion Ops or, worse, a ninja-lot).


This is why I like leading myself. I can police it and allow no leeching in my parties. Especially when we just start and someone says "brb food" ... Like you couldn't do all that during the gather part...

If we've been there for at least an hour and you need a bathroom break that's cool, we all do. Ten minutes. If I don't see any action from you I wait 5 more then leave you a "Kicking you for leeching message, you want back in /tell before I replace you"

I love the responses in /tells I've received at how great I run parties over the past year. Real players want a good leader who isn't afraid to take action.

Can't wait to weed out the Ifrit leechers coming to Odin. ;)

[Rionaheart]

Abyssea is so easy you can still get TE and Exp with just a party of 6 why do as an alliance nms and bosses ye and it may also help with the leach situation just a thought.

[Krystal]

Two part question: How much about your jobs and gear mechanics did you learn *On your own from exp'ing* as opposed to on community sites or wiki?

Part 2: How much do you actually know about how the game works?

This is important. I promise you, 99.9% of players are not going to magically notice that increases in dMND increase their Slow potency just by exp'ing.

with whm i learned GREAT DEAL...one of the first and most painful lessons i learned was DO NOT CAST AOE CURES AT ANY LEVEL as it 9 times out of 10 results in death for me. another lesson i learn fairly quickly on whm was using their 2hr meant certain death for me unless they killed the mob shortly after i used it. lessons like that can't be taught through a tutorial. or if they can be they won't understand the significance behind why they say such things. i learned many more things on my others jobs naturally without wiki but to do so would take me up to like 5 hours and probably exceed the posting limit 10 times over. see..when i first started i had no idea a wiki existed so i learned most of my lessons with most my jobs naturally. it was only about 2 years or so ago after i unlocked all jobs and got most past level 30 i learned there was such a thing as wiki.

[Renromix]

No just take out TE from Abyssea so you will have choice to use your stone to leech or do NM's to get your gears

[Krystal]

No just take out TE from Abyssea so you will have choice to use your stone to leech or do NM's to get your gears

removing the time extention? now there's a creative idea...but it still wouldn't fix the overall problem...players woudl simply just huddle outside the maws for an hour then jump back in...no problem solved.

[Cream_Soda]

removing the time extention? now there's a creative idea...but it still wouldn't fix the overall problem...players woudl simply just huddle outside the maws for an hour then jump back in...no problem solved.
In order for a problem to be solved, there has to be one to begin with.

If you prefer traditional leveling, find 5 people who agree with you and make a static/level the way you want to. Let everyone else level the way they want to.

Nobody is stopping or even trying to stop you from leveling in the manner you see fit.

They have theirs

You have yours

and I have mine

Together we will find that it takes different strokes to rule the world, yes it does.

[Krystal]

In order for a problem to be solved, there has to be one to begin with.

If you prefer traditional leveling, find 5 people who agree with you and make a static/level the way you want to. Let everyone else level the way they want to.

Nobody is stopping or even trying to stop you from leveling in the manner you see fit.

They have theirs

You have yours

and I have mine

Together we will find that it takes different strokes to rule the world, yes it does.

yah,yah..go on and jump in abyssea and burn your jobs to 90 you damn abby noob....seriously. you have done nothing but attempt to discredit every post i have made or any other has made that proved valid points..so do us a favor...snap your SE key in half, log out of the forums, and don't come back...unless you can actually say something that doesn't discredit a statement.

[Wenceslao]

In order for a problem to be solved, there has to be one to begin with.

If you prefer traditional leveling, find 5 people who agree with you and make a static/level the way you want to. Let everyone else level the way they want to.

Nobody is stopping or even trying to stop you from leveling in the manner you see fit.

They have theirs

You have yours

and I have mine

Together we will find that it takes different strokes to rule the world, yes it does.

that's what im telling you guys, lol, i agree

[Cream_Soda]

Lol, when you have no more viable arguments, I guess it's time to throw the insults.

I'm a noob.

You heard it here first guys.

[Toren]

Here's the only current issue I see with this we currently have no idea how long FFXI will last. In my opinion SE has made it easier for people to be able to enjoy a lot of aspects about the game before it eventually dies we all know this game has already been surviving on borrowed time (mergers prove this) SE themselves has said this (not in exact words) but generally. I also believe this is why they're trying to make Relics easier and also made weapons like Empryeans to give players chances to experience what its like before it all ends.

[Greatguardian]

with whm i learned GREAT DEAL...one of the first and most painful lessons i learned was DO NOT CAST AOE CURES AT ANY LEVEL as it 9 times out of 10 results in death for me. another lesson i learn fairly quickly on whm was using their 2hr meant certain death for me unless they killed the mob shortly after i used it. lessons like that can't be taught through a tutorial. or if they can be they won't understand the significance behind why they say such things. i learned many more things on my others jobs naturally without wiki but to do so would take me up to like 5 hours and probably exceed the posting limit 10 times over. see..when i first started i had no idea a wiki existed so i learned most of my lessons with most my jobs naturally. it was only about 2 years or so ago after i unlocked all jobs and got most past level 30 i learned there was such a thing as wiki.

I have no issues using Benediction or Curaga IV. If I do take hate on WHM, it's intentional and I have enough PDT to handle anything most mobs throw at me anyways. Regardless, the nail's been hit on the head by a dozen posters a dozen times in both the threads you've started so I don't really see any point in enabling you any longer. Worry less about what other people do and more about what you do. If you want to level in the overworld, advertise for an Outside-Exp linkshell or something. Everyone wins.

[Krystal]

Lol, when you have no more viable arguments, I guess it's time to throw the insults.

I'm a noob.

You heard it here first guys.

my problem with you is you have not attempted to make a simple argument...you have simply discredited every post that someone has made. so ya...i will insult you. because you are clearly just trolling for kicks.

[Tamarsamar]

my problem with you is you have not attempted to make a simple argument...you have simply discredited every post that someone has made. so ya...i will insult you. because you are clearly just trolling for kicks.

The ironing is delicious.

[Cream_Soda]

I've made plenty of arguments. There's no trolling.

What part of level the way YOU want to was not understandable to you?

Just because you want to level a certain way does not mean everyone else has to. Do as you please and we shall do as we please. It's no more complicated than that, seriously.

[PizzaTheHut]

Lol, when you have no more viable arguments, I guess it's time to throw the insults.

I'm a noob.

You heard it here first guys.

Well obviously...you've got a Bieber sig pic.

[Krystal]

I have no issues using Benediction or Curaga IV. If I do take hate on WHM, it's intentional and I have enough PDT to handle anything most mobs throw at me anyways. Regardless, the nail's been hit on the head by a dozen posters a dozen times in both the threads you've started so I don't really see any point in enabling you any longer. Worry less about what other people do and more about what you do. If you want to level in the overworld, advertise for an Outside-Exp linkshell or something. Everyone wins.

quite the contrare..the longer the thread keeps getting replied to the more chances are a SE rep will see it...see what we have been saying and go"oh damn...this many players? hmm...maybe something IS WRONG

[Kuvo]

I have said increase the min level to 70 or 75 since abyssea first came out. The leeching is so out of control. I had an alliance today go in and only 30mins into the party 4 people warped out changed jobs to low level 35ish jobs and came back in /anon. It wasn't pointed out to me untill they were almost level 50 each. I kicked them right away but this goes to show you that people are just lazy. Also I'm with everyone that says that abyssea did kill the party system from 30-75. Limit access to 75 which will help any new players looking to level low jobs because more players will be around and you get to learn your job better prior going into endgame.

As for the increase exp outside abyssea, it's about time SE did this. I wanted to lvl THF for a long time at only lvl 25. I was able to solo using FoV to 35 and I have all my stats caped. Just need to figure out a way for new players or even older players to level low jobs together again.

[Greatguardian]

quite the contrare..the longer the thread keeps getting replied to the more chances are a SE rep will see it...see what we have been saying and go"oh damn...this many players? hmm...maybe something IS WRONG

Well, that would explain why you've spent the past 3 pages uses caps lock and bold rockets against Cream Soda and myself without actually replying to the content of a single one of our posts. Okay then.

[Krystal]

Well, that would explain why you've spent the past 3 pages uses caps lock and bold rockets against Cream Soda and myself without actually replying to the content of a single one of our posts. Okay then.

well..i'm also fall over on my face hitting keyboard tired atm...^^;

[Randwolf]

..i don't want to see FFXI die. and at this rate...with things as they are. it will! what do you think this server merge is about? more players to play with? no! it's because the player population has dropped and new players are leaving no sooner they join. why? because no one levels in normal areas! and those who do only to level 30 then they join the abyssea gravy train to level 90 and don't know how to play their jobs and can't hit the broad side of a barn!
It already was dying. I've seen more people return since the addition of Abyssea. And, their primary reason: Abyssea. The population continues to shrink. It was shrinking prior to Abyssea. Most of my hard-core friends had left prior to Abyssea being introduced. I was playing less and less every day. After 7 years playing a game, I think I've earned the right to feel uber in a game. The only problem is that the uberness was given to all players. Not just old-timers. Personally, I don't care if it means n00bs get to be uber too. Others, would rather keep everyone relatively weak, including themselves, as long as they had a slight, very slight, advantage over newer players.

My personal opinion is that there are 2 types of players that stand-out; the perfectionists and the sloths. I'm not sure if there is anyway to keep the sloths at bay other than refusing to include them when you do things. I have 4 jobs, everything is leveled. Well, except Guard and Parry, which I put hours into each week slowly working up their levels.

So, while you might have been satisfied with the way things were, a majority were not. Personally, I feel you are howling at the wind. But, to each their own.

[Krystal]

It already was dying. I've seen more people return since the addition of Abyssea. And, their primary reason: Abyssea. The population continues to shrink. It was shrinking prior to Abyssea. Most of my hard-core friends had left prior to Abyssea being introduced. I was playing less and less every day. After 7 years playing a game, I think I've earned the right to feel uber in a game. The only problem is that the uberness was given to all players. Not just old-timers. Personally, I don't care if it means n00bs get to be uber too. Others, would rather keep everyone relatively weak, including themselves, as long as they had a slight, very slight, advantage over newer players.

My personal opinion is that there are 2 types of players that stand-out; the perfectionists and the sloths. I'm not sure if there is anyway to keep the sloths at bay other than refusing to include them when you do things. I have 4 jobs, everything is leveled. Well, except Guard and Parry, which I put hours into each week slowly working up their levels.

So, while you might have been satisfied with the way things were, a majority were not. Personally, I feel you are howling at the wind. But, to each their own.

well at least your post contributed SOMETHING even though i don't like it...>.>; but still you make valid points. FFXI is dying and still is...but the fact remains is i'd rather IF is does die...to go in the way i remember it..not some level 90 noob fest filled crap game....

[Greatguardian]

well at least your post contributed SOMETHING even though i don't like it...>.>; but still you make valid points. FFXI is dying and still is...but the fact remains is i'd rather IF is does die...to go in the way i remember it..not some level 90 noob fest filled crap game....

The majority of my large, polite, contributing posts were completely ignored. I don't really see much point writing more when those opposed to my point of view either skim them and find one thing to disagree on, or skip over them altogether. Reading is such hard work when the content is something contrary to what we want, isn't it?

FFXI is still a fairly healthy game. There is still some competition in the endgame scene, and plenty of crowding in some Abyssea areas to indicate activity. Content is being developed and implemented by an incredibly devoted development team. The population is declining, but it used to be a whole lot worse. If anything, Abyssea has reintroduced older, retired players to the game as indicated above.

The thing is, FFXI was never free of lazy, nooby players. Ever. It has always had a large population of bad players. Maybe it was easier to ignore in 2006 because, honestly, most of us here *were* bad players back then. I know I sure was. They have always been there. There have always been this many. They were always at level 75, 90, whatever the cap was and yes, they typically always got there leeching off other people's skill. Whether they're an Abyssea leech or that full AF WAR with an Axe of Trials that your party leader just isn't "mean" enough to kick, dumb people will get to max level off other's good graces at any point in time.

The trick is dealing with it and moving on with your own FFXI experience. If you don't like bad players, don't associate with bad players. If you don't enjoy doing anything, or can't find players to do things with, be more proactive. Don't sit around with your flag up watching a movie. Form a party if you want to form a party. Make friends if you want to make friends. Don't do nothing and then complain that you can't do anything.

[Eruainur]

Back to the roots, FFXI was once the glory star in the wide sea of MMOs when it came to rewarding experience. It was hard, no doubt, but some might argue that the reward was much greater when the goal was achieved... but now? you can get from 30 to 90 in a day by macroing the key to open chests... whats the point in that? Then you got lvl 90 and now? I mean, when you had to work your butt off to level your job you fell in love with it, you cared for it and you know how to play it. Nowadays what I see is noobish players that dont know jack about their jobs, and that makes me sad.

I totally agree with Leylias and other peoples statements and I'd support a level 75+ cap for abyssea... heck, for all I care it could be 80 forcing ppl to find at least some new camps or do stuff like campaign again.

[Randwolf]

They have always been there. There have always been this many.
I agreed with you until this part. n00bage has increased. However, it had a good head start with AF burns in the tunnel, not with Abyssea. But, although a lot of people could get into burn parties and suck at their jobs, it wasn't an available option to a majority of the new player population. Plus, many of the people who burned their levels were actually good players who wouldn't bring a gimp job to an end-game event. Note the use of many, I can name several on Sylph who thought end-game events were an opportunity to level severely gimped job skills.

I'm going with what I consider the balanced view on this. Players who have been playing a long time and doing what is right should be allowed to feel powerful. The only problem is how do you open that door for those that worked their way up and keep it shut for the lazy nubs who show up and think they understand what the game is and has been.

[Greatguardian]

I have to fall back on rose-tinted sunglasses on this one. When each server had 6,000 people online in prime time, there's no way there were fewer noobtastic 75s than there are now. As a percentage of the total population though, I may cede that point up till the introduction of ToAU. My point was mainly that Abyssea really did not change the status quo at all.

[Corydor]

just to point out something to those that say that ffxi is dying, there has been a massive comeback of players who left to go and play ffXIV and vowed never to come back. 90% of them are back because XIV is a disaster and not worth even installing some people are right people will always abuse any system, there is nothing we can do about it but leaving such an obvious flaw and not fixing it is down to SE. The only reason the level cap is that low is so people can use jobs like blm and dnc sneak and invis to do quests that is it.

[Krystal]

now begs the question: who made the bogus report to the other thread wiped?-_-; screw it..i'm going to sleep...

[Dubberrucky]

Maybe its a matter of server differences there is no way to really tell but there are now FAR more worthless 90s on Sylph than there ever were worthless 75s. It is so bad here that its better to solo before you bother picking someone up because they will usually be a waste of your time.

[Randwolf]

Maybe its a matter of server differences there is no way to really tell but there are now FAR more worthless 90s on Sylph than there ever were worthless 75s. It is so bad here that its better to solo before you bother picking someone up because they will usually be a waste of your time.
It's not your imagination. Ask any of the veterans who spent hours skilling weapons, pre-Abyssea, that aren't the job's main weapon just because they had access to skill them. With the level cap increase and the easier experience, an element came out of the woodwork that has the 'if others can't see the stats, they don't matter.' Of course, part of that attitude was created by some crappy veterans who paraded around at 75 wearing uber gear but were known to suck at their job. N00b's see that and assume that the game is all about visible numbers. I've had NM proc parties where members couldn't do the needed weapon skill or didn't bother to purchase the spell. I actually was speechless, right before they were kicked.

There are a lot of people, even ones who have played a while who think that not only can they leech experience, they can leech items from players who did what they were supposed to do for their jobs.

[Alastaire]

Personally, I do not see a problem with leveling in Abyssea at level 30, especially if you're in there working chests with keys. That job HAS to be done by someone, and there's no point in making a level 90 player waste their time on it when they could be helping with the fighting/pulling/healing.

I do NOT agree with "leeching," but to me, that term is defined by someone who sits, does nothing, and receives experience for it. You can do this at level 1, or level 90. It doesn't matter where you do it, or how you do it, it's wrong and unfair to others.

I'm sorry that some of you feel like Abyssea ruined the game, but to be honest, you sound more jealous and butthurt than actually concerned. Who cares if someone levels quicker than you did? Is it really that big of a deal? This game is OLD and it still has new players joining. Without the level sync system, those new players (and even most of the veterans) had NO way to level besides soloing, which is not a viable option to everyone. Save for creating a static, there's no way to get around having gimp skills, because one way or another, you're going to be prevented from leveling them.

If SE implemented a way to level skills while synced, then perhaps your argument would make more sense, but frankly, it doesn't. Get over yourself. If it bothers you so much, perhaps you should find something else to occupy your time.

[Randwolf]

...I'm sorry that some of you feel like Abyssea ruined the game, but to be honest, you sound more jealous and butthurt than actually concerned. Who cares if someone levels quicker than you did? Is it really that big of a deal? This game is OLD and it still has new players joining. Without the level sync system, those new players (and even most of the veterans) had NO way to level besides soloing, which is not a viable option to everyone. Save for creating a static, there's no way to get around having gimp skills, because one way or another, you're going to be prevented from leveling them.

If SE implemented a way to level skills while synced, then perhaps your argument would make more sense, but frankly, it doesn't. Get over yourself. If it bothers you so much, perhaps you should find something else to occupy your time.
You missed the point of thread. It isn't that people rise quickly to 90. It's that they don't bother to level all the skills, abilities, and spells that go with it. They assume that the "90" is all that matters. And, since S/E doesn't have a way to raise your skills while synced, it is the player's responsibility to go out and do so on their own or with others. It isn't okay to bring gimpy skills to parties where you are expected to be able to competently do your job. Although, it seems to be an idea that has been on the rise.

[Cream_Soda]

You missed the point of thread. It isn't that people rise quickly to 90. It's that they don't bother to level all the skills, abilities, and spells that go with it. They assume that the "90" is all that matters.

And these people are horrible players regardless or not they level in abyssea. Avoid them and there won't be a problem.

[Alastaire]

Perhaps, but I still do not see this as an "epidemic" that it's being made out to be. Yes, there are people who do not cap skills. There are plenty of others who do. If the only point of this thread is to complain about people not leveling skills, what do you hope to accomplish by it? If Abyssea is capped at 50, 60, or even 70-75, those people still will not take the time to level skills, and they'll still be just as gimped due to the level sync system implemented in the game.

[Randwolf]

Perhaps, but I still do not see this as an "epidemic" that it's being made out to be. Yes, there are people who do not cap skills. There are plenty of others who do. If the only point of this thread is to complain about people not leveling skills, what do you hope to accomplish by it? If Abyssea is capped at 50, 60, or even 70-75, those people still will not take the time to level skills, and they'll still be just as gimped due to the level sync system implemented in the game.
I'm not arguing to raise the Abyssea cap. I'm simply pointing out that Abyssea has allowed these sloths, and they'd be sloths with or without Abyssea, to rise quickly. So, there is some validity to people's complaints that a large group of them have quickly become end-game level. In the old system, it was a lot harder for a sloth to get to 75 because people, for the most part, would not sit there and let you accrue experience and suck.

[Greatguardian]

people, for the most part, would not sit there and let you accrue experience and suck.

While I do agree with you on most points, I found this funny. While people may not have literally sat afk and done nothing "back in the day", people most certainly let bad players sit there, accrue experience, and suck. In fact, most of the time, if any bad player was kicked from a party for sucking it would be the party leader that got the most flak from the community. Endgame communities like BG's forums got an extremely polarizing rep because the posters there were typically the ones to call out this sort of thing.

Personally, I'd rather have someone acknowledge that they're leeching and going afk than a full AF SAM trying to hit things with his Shinsoku and assuming that they're actually contributing to the group. Just a comment, not a contention.

[Ragmar]

For as long as FFXI has been around jobs leveled was one of the biggest accomplishments in game. Hell Maat's cap. But with this new Abyssea - FFXI direction, I have some requests. I never took up crafting because I found it to be as fun as dragging my teeth accross concrete and was far to time consuming. Please do to crafting the equivilant of what you have done to leveling. I request that I should be able to skill up by being in the presance of others (I.E. AFK at the guild) crafting.

Please also remove all battlefields from quest/storylines and have all quest/storylines be cutscene only. I know I spent more time doing CoP CS/missions than most of the abyssea only players have lvling their multiple lvl 90 jobs. I want to be able to go to one NPC for each quest/storyline and finish all my quests/missions without involving too much time.

Please rework dynamis to only drop 100's and at twice the frequency of singles priviously. Also please require only 10,000 coins per relic. Also full relics themselves should be rare 5% drops from notorious monsters.

ABC's and AF+1 items from limbus should drop 5 per mob starting on floor 1 and move to 25 per mob on the last floor. Ultima/Omega should drops fulls 5/5 items per kill.

Nyzul Isle should see the addition of kings, scaled to current boss floor levels and should share the same loot pool as their world spawns.

Salvage needs to be revamped so that every NM has a 50% drop rate of a the finished armor and 99 alex's. Also please remove the restrictions salvage imposes on you as it's very annoying and creates too much of a challenge for casuals.

There should be no more entry restrictions either for things like nyzul/limbus/dynamis/salvage/einharjer. Also please allow me to select my own augments when augmenting gear.

Please do away with zeni and just allow me to pop the T1 NMs freely and only require the trophy from the T1 to pop the T2 and so forth.

These are just a few things you can do to balance the current progression of leveling with other aspects of the game. None of this is anymore game breaking than lvling 30-99 in abyssea. Thank you in advance for the wonderful changes to come.

People forget its the journey not the destination.

[Fiarlia]

You missed the point of thread. It isn't that people rise quickly to 90. It's that they don't bother to level all the skills, abilities, and spells that go with it. They assume that the "90" is all that matters.

This doesn't have anything to do with the Abyssea leeching, this is the bad players being bad.

I will concede and even agree that without Abyssea leeching, it's entirely possible that some of them would have at least most of their spells, and quite likely a higher base skill; possibly even capped depending on how they leveled (though I maintain this as being unlikely as they would probably Astralburn or Level Sync and bypass the ability to skill while leveling anyway).

Regardless, do you honestly think that these people would be worth playing with for anything serious? I don't know about you, but if someone doesn't have the drive, concern or even knowledge that they should be getting their spells and skills and subjobs all up to par, I very highly doubt that they would have fully understood their job and been able to play it very well. Let alone done reading and research to find out how to gear or even what food to use (if they even used it at all).

I do agree that Abyssea has made these horrible players able to level up quicker and/or get more jobs at cap. The followup question to this point, however, is so what? I absolutely do not play with these types of people, and never will. I enjoy playing FFXI, and people like this take away from my experience, usually frustrating me to no end. So I simply do not play with them. I still leech my jobs, but I do it with my linkshell. We alternate who does the fighting and who does the leeching every Sunday. We only have three people fighting mobs, and we're still killing much much faster than the pickup group of 18 next to us. We also get to laugh when they all wipe to a single Meltdown.

If you people would take the proper steps to eliminate playing with these people you hate so much and complain about so much, perhaps you'd enjoy the game a lot more, and perhaps even Abyssea leeching.

But that point is neither here nor there. A main point that I'm going to restate, since it is being made that almost everyone against Abyssea leeching: If you want to level the traditional way, go right ahead. Nobody here is trying to stop you. Nobody here is trying to tell you not to. Nobody here is even trying to impose limits on how well it would work, or worthwhile it could be. Stop trying to place limits on the way we like to level.

Having played since 2003, I certainly do not want to level another job the traditional way. It's boring and unnecessary, at least to me. I know how to play the game. I can read up on other jobs that I burn to cap. And from personal experience I know for certain that it's entirely possible to leech without it being detrimental to a smart player. Otherwise my linkshell would be full of people who don't know how to play, as we've each burned up about 3-5 jobs, yet somehow we're each able to play these jobs, we have our weapons skilled, we have our spells, and we can take down pretty much anything with any combination of our jobs; even our new ones (Shinryu fights without brew/doomscreen are amazingly fun, I highly recommend it).

So, if Abyssea leeching is really so bad, why have I, and my linkshell, improved ourselves so greatly because of it with literally zero downsides?

And if your answer has anything to do with pointing out the people who are not like my group (which I understand and agree that's a fairly large percentage of the remaining population), then the rebuttal I give you is simply don't play with them.

[Randwolf]

I will concede and even agree that without Abyssea leeching, it's entirely possible that some of them would have at least most of their spells, and quite likely a higher base skill; possibly even capped depending on how they leveled (though I maintain this as being unlikely as they would probably Astralburn or Level Sync and bypass the ability to skill while leveling anyway)...
Did you see in my post, anywhere in my post, where I said to do away with the quick leveling or to raise the minimum level in Abyssea. It was purely an observation which you in fact agreed with.

And, the way I avoid the sloths is to avoid any PUG's. If I don't know the people shouting, I won't go on the run. I don't have the time to go on a run and find out that someone has got the big 90 and nothing else.

[Fiarlia]

Did you see in my post, anywhere in my post, where I said to do away with the quick leveling or to raise the minimum level in Abyssea. It was purely an observation which you in fact agreed with.

And, the way I avoid the sloths is to avoid any PUG's. If I don't know the people shouting, I won't go on the run. I don't have the time to go on a run and find out that someone has got the big 90 and nothing else.

Apologies, the entire post wasn't directed at you or your comments. I kinda just kept writing. I was mostly trying to emphasize the point that Abyssea leeching isn't to blame for those players and at most, allowed them to reach 90 faster, despite it not really being that much of an issue for those who choose to not let it be.

[Randwolf]

Apologies, the entire post wasn't directed at you or your comments. I kinda just kept writing. I was mostly trying to emphasize the point that Abyssea leeching isn't to blame for those players and at most, allowed them to reach 90 faster, despite it not really being that much of an issue for those who choose to not let it be.
No problem. I just don't want anyone to equate the fact that I can see the issues with a desire to return to the 'good old days.' In fact, in other threads, I've emphatically stated I'll take the sloths over having to return to the way things used to be. I was teetering on retiring before S/E's new attitude and Abyssea came out. If it went back to the old attitude, then I would move on.

[Tamarsamar]

Also please allow me to select my own augments when augmenting gear.

I know that you're being painfully sarcastic right now, but to be honest, this one particular item was how things should have been done from day one of augmenting.

[Chaani]

This argument seems to be popping up all over the place on these official forums, I am starting to become confused as to why. Abyssea changed nothing in terms of the average player base. I must have been playing a different game pre-Abyssea because I can recall specific player names and instances of just complete awfulness. Players that would "AFK" for 10 minutes in a 6 person party, mages in two mage parties leaning on the other mage to do all the curing so they could "skill-up" enfeebling. Rangers in the mid 60s using beetle arrows or bronze bolts, I could keep listing examples over my eight year tenure playing this game.

Why are a few of you letting nostalgia cloud your memory of this, these people that don't respect their fellow players' time and effort have existed in this game since the beginning. It's infuriating, but it isn't caused, created nor exacerbated by Abyssea. These players took advantage of others in 6 person parties, and now they do it in 18 person alliances. Like I have said in another thread on this same subject, the largest part of skill in this game is simply paying attention as a player, either the player is or isn't, the venue doesn't matter.

[chubrocka]

Next will be open PvP server choices and then FFXI will be called FFXI the WoW years!!!!

[Drivont]

Umm.... umad?


HAHAHAHAHAHA ^

[Vold]

well at least your post contributed SOMETHING even though i don't like it...>.>; but still you make valid points. FFXI is dying and still is...but the fact remains is i'd rather IF is does die...to go in the way i remember it..not some level 90 noob fest filled crap game....
Let's get real here, shall we? Should there have been a level 30 limit to enter Abyssea? No. Level 30s do not belong in Abyssea. But what's done is done, and the fact is this: You backtrack now and take it away so people can't leech, and you will doom the game to it's death as people will sooner retire than go back to grinding for weeks to attain the level required to enter Abyssea, or they just won't level new jobs period. Either way it won't matter.

Good players will grind out their skilling up sessions post experience as they have always done. Those that don't will continue to not do the same because and I quote, "it's no fun." This game doesn't have the numbers anymore to justify the old ways. SE has to work on keeping us around more so than time sinking us. Different strategies for the same goal: keep us paying and playing.

The only thing Abyssea has done as far as gimping players are concerned, is that it exposes them on a much larger scale when there are 18 person alliances for exp PT and end game content can be done with pick up alliances. That's it. It's the same gimps as before. Abyssea didn't suddenly turn everyone else that weren't already gimps into gimps. Either you care or you don't. No change SE will ever do will change that.

[Ragmar]

I know that you're being painfully sarcastic right now, but to be honest, this one particular item was how things should have been done from day one of augmenting.

I totally agree, maybe not like exact numbers but certainly some kind of influence, there should have been a lot more control in this much. Honestly it's why I bring it up. For years we get things like this that fail beyond measure update after update. I was just trying to point out the massive imballance between aspects of the game in this new abyssea era.

I have keyed 2 jobs 41-75 and will key my remaining jobs 45-75 if my only other option is to solo. I shouldnt have to. I should not have been forced to play one of two ways. Solo or Abyssea Leech. Thats all this game has to offer 30-75 right now. When MNK dinged 75 I capped h2h obtained my nyzul and WSNM WS's and thanked god for atma so I didnt have to open boxes for a few hours and call that exping.

I enjoyed the old leveling system, though I would have enjoyed it more with the current exp rate outside of abyssea, level sync made it possible to exp any time you wanted to. All it required was a basic understanding of party set up and not having been a tool your entire FFXI career so that you had a few friends around who would enjoy spending a few hours partying with you even if they didnt "need" the exp.

All in all though I believe the game is completely out of balance right now. I honestly would not be suprised to see updates much like I mentioned because they are prefectly on par with the level progression of this game. Leveling is part of the balance. Just like SE never inteded for the average player to obtain 10 relics they never intended for the average player to level every job/craft and obtian the rarest gear in the game. Since they have some aspect painfully easy now (leveling/gear) why not the others? It seems to me that is the direction we're moving. I dont see how being able to level a craft by simply afking in the respective guild is any different then leeching exp. Either way you're progressing in game without doing anything.

[Alkalinehoe]

. i am a hardcore player .
Oshit, he's hardcore.

[Krystal]

Oshit, he's hardcore.

not to poke at the little things but omg....read profiles! good fricking lord! i'm female ya twits!>.< men today...no brains....just egos....>.>;

[Fiarlia]

not to poke at the little things but omg....read profiles! good fricking lord! i'm female ya twits!>.< men today...no brains....just egos....>.>;

.....Seriously?

Your profile (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/members/4414-Krystal) has no listed gender.

[Naturebeckles]

.....Seriously?

Your profile (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/members/4414-Krystal) has no listed gender.

Good call Fiarlia.... LOL

[Fiarlia]

I mean, it was quite obvious from their post's content and attitude that they certainly were not a hardcore player like they claim to be, but this is just hilarious.

Absolutely hilarious.

[Todo]

This has been something that has been eating at me since the release of abyssea. i am a hardcore player and strong believer in the fact levels should be earned..not given on a silver platter. SE nearly signed FFXI's death warrant when they released abyssea. new players don't know what to do and leave because they have no idea how to level or learn how to do alot of the fun things in FFXI. i down right refuse to level ANY JOB AT ALL in those zones. i frankly down right hate abyssea for the fact it's killing FFXI as it is right now. the only time i have anything to do with it is when i have to merit on one of my level 90 jobs. and the armor..forget it! i want nothing to do with it.

You're completely off base blaming Abyssea for new players not knowing what the hell they're doing.

I've been playing for two months. I've never had a previous account, I'm one of those rare actually new people. I bought Abyssea because I thought I would just get a job to 30 than leach to 50, do my LB, leach to 55, etc.

EVERYONE seems to think that people that do Abyssea parties are like "Oh hey, you don't have Cruor to buy keys? You're literally just going to join this party, sit here, contribute absolutely nothing to the party? OKAY! WE"D LOVE TO HAVE YOU!"

If you aren't key whoring, you're not going to get into an Abyssea party as a sub 75 job. At least not on my server. (Odin.)

If you wanted to argue that new players get the shaft because everyone is in Abyssea, and new players are basically stuck to Qufim parties, there would be some merit in that. I set up all my own parties, and it can be difficult to find parties for post 30 places, however, you would actually be surprised.

There is a nostalgic feeling for places like Crawlers Nest and Gargliage (Pardon my horrendous spelling ><) And people seem excited to go to those places. It's a nice change of pace from just leeching your job to 90.

In conclusion:

Everyone needs to calm the f down about how new players are just leeching jobs to 90 because of Abyssea. I would say MAYBE 1% of the new player population is actually doing that. If that much. New players (try to) make parties and level the exact same way you did when you first did it, at least with their first job.

And, unless this game is vastly different from EVERY OTHER MMO, after someone has gotten one job to 90 the "real" way, they probably have a good grasp of this game. Yes, a WHM and THF have VASTLY different mechanics, but you're not completely new to the game like you were when you first started. It's easier to pick up what you have to do and what not to do, when to do what, etc. The 1-30 level grind teaches a lot, regardless of how you want to spin it.

[Zumi]

You're complaining about bad players but bad players existed before abyssea was out. So I honestly don't see the point in this topic OP. For example that DRG that would be in bird camp full timing AF1 and missing gear in other slots. ect

[Judge]

its been mentioned that new ppl join who don't know how to play and leech to 90. level cap aside newbs nubs and fatheads have existed as long as i have played. i know ppl who have played for 7 years who have NIN and still cant find their way to Norg. learning how to play has nothing to do with your current job level.

the level cap for abyssea is irrelevant for 2 reasons.
1) once you hit 50.. EVERY 5 levels is a limit break that cannot be breezed through solo in any short time. more than likely you will recruit someone higher lvl to help(MMO.. work together? what a concept!)thats still a tedious and necessary roadblock
2) between FOV and level sync parties most ppl either solo, don't have skills, or dont know how to work together anyway... so at least those newer to the game stand a chance at learning how to play alongside ppl that may be able to support them and eventually contribute to the group.
So either you want to help: Sync down to gimp-sauce levels and whiff worms and gobs all day
Or: Drag your friend along with you while you smash through hordes of monsters with satisfying bloodshed as someone of high level power should be doing.
Or you don't want to help(then who is being the lazy one?)

[Juri_Licious]

Did you really just bump this old thread?

[Ravenmore]

Lazy players were always around. They leeched off every sinlge party they joined. Also leveling faster then skills capping is nothing new, jobs that have to use 2 differnt weapons or rdm. Dnc is told to not even bother with daggers till mid to late 20s why they suck before that. Sam had to have polearm skilled to for bird parties. For the most part rdms didnt really have a chance on the way up to cap elemental skill and once you hit birds if you casted anything but dia on a mob you were kick, hell even then half the party would whine. Unless they get rid of abyssea level sync and the exp boost we will have to skill up.