Ideas for Limbus mk2

[radar]

It's great so far:

No time limit is really good, far less stressful. Monster variation and area is good. Rewards are pretty good. Feeling of danger is good.

Consider giving more Capacity Points per kill here for casual and newer players if they are not yet at master (and maybe give a notice after CP is given that they are getting a bonus), new and casual players really need a boost on this the most.

New Limbus should give the best CP in the game, because it's the most likely content to make casual and solo players go there and potentially to group up due to the trust limitation.

Mlev should stay the same imo, established players can go other places to get those.

Add a rare drop to the chest (<5%), maybe a cosmetic or something. Players love the potential of a rare loot drop to show off with, that gives an additional reason to keep doing it. Maybe that black subligar or something like that. Something kind of cool and kind of rare.

Maybe consider adding a system as in Reisenjima where an Ascended monster pops after killing a basic one, that gives double Capacity points when killed but that isn't much more difficult to kill. This boosts the reward potential and adds some excitement at a rare double reward version popping.

Add a daily RoE objective that rewards with CP for killing 20 monsters here.

There should be as much push as possible to get casual and newer players to go here as possible.

[radar]

Don't change the spawn range when players drag monsters to the warp point, this adds a sense of danger to the event and makes people have to pay attention. This is a good thing, making one piece of content "safe" when everything else is so, it just makes it boring.

[radar]

Remove abilities that make the zone a pain to play in, why have charm, why have voidsong etc?

[Alhanelem]

About theonly thing we can really say for sure atm is that ultima/omega will return.

I don't think it's a coincidence that proto ultima/proto omega are to be featured in the next leg of the XI raid (both at the same time, no less) in FFXIV.

[Voidstorm]

Ideas for Limbus mk2: Go back to the original Limbus and write down what mobs were on each floor. Instead of just throwing out a whole bunch of mobs, make it mobs that actually FIT the theme of the original.
As an example: NW5 should have a bunch of behemoths and other beasts.
NW4 should just be a whole bunch of Wyrms & dragon types.
NE2 all birds, big birds, small birds, maybe some toucans.
NE3 all arcana, dolls, magic pots, maybe add detectors, cardians, caturae & grimoires.
SW3 all mimics. no change here. just all mimics.
SW4 all elementals. would have to fix the damage taken by elementals to not be immune to physical since that should have never been a thing anyway. in fact, in SW4 that wasn't a thing before the change.

Basically, a large part of what made every floor in every wing of Limbus unique has been stripped away.
I'd like there to at least be a /nod to the old limbus in the new version.

[Voidstorm]

since the data of old Limbus is still in the wiki:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/North_West_Apollyon
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/North_East_Apollyon
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/South_West_Apollyon
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/South_East_Apollyon
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Western_Temenos
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Eastern_Temenos
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Northern_Temenos
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Central_Temenos_-_1st_Floor
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Central_Temenos_-_2nd_Floor
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Central_Temenos_-_3rd_Floor
4th floor was Ultima's floor so that's obviously free reign to play with.

I don't mean to limit the mobs to just what was there originally, but they should at least follow the theme in the floor, if it was all aquans on the floor, then it should stay all aquans, just expand which aquans are there. (except the mimic only floor, that should only have mimics)

[radar]

Incase there was any doubt, they are working on adding Ultima and Omega to 119 Limbus. No doubt with updated gear from them (I hope they consider color changes to the 119 gear, maybe making it from red to double black and silver or something)


Interviewer: Please tell us about your plans moving forward.

Fujito: First, regarding the new Limbus, we plan to implement the first part in June.We’ll start by implementing the basic parts in order. After that, I think we’ll introduce things like “the one that switches between bipedal and quadrupedal movement” or “the one that floats and fires something like a massive buster cannon” (laughs).For Besieged, we plan to implement Content Levels (CL) 114 and 119 in the future. It’s possible that CL114 and CL119 might be implemented simultaneously. Up until now, the Content Levels have been increasing steadily, but it feels like the beastman armies are about to get serious.Also, the loot from the stronger base bosses, as it stands, won’t feel rewarding enough, so we’re discussing the idea of creating a new loot table specifically for when the campaign level is high.

[Alhanelem]

We basically already knew :p

[radar]

Yeah I guess, I hope they recolor the Nashira and Homan sets if they add 119 versions.

Full black homam and nashira (make the red parts black) would be great.

[Tehant]

White looks better in my opinion your brain is just disgusting everyone.

[Chromium]

If the notorious monsters in limbus are mannequins (the spoiler image appears to be a mannequin in RDM gear), what do you think that could represent from a lore perspective?

The Delve NPC are mannequins.
The monstrosity NPC are also mannequins.
The High Tier Battlefield NPC are also mannequins.

In the mog house mannequin quest the mannequin is shown as being possessed by evil and brought back to life by a Necromancer from Tavnazia, a job they supposedly wanted to add to the game but felt was too dark (which they later changed into puppetmaster)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4rtQjc9Xu4

[Alhanelem]

If the notorious monsters in limbus are mannequins (the spoiler image appears to be a mannequin in RDM gear), what do you think that could represent from a lore perspective?

The Delve NPC are mannequins.
The monstrosity NPC are also mannequins.
The High Tier Battlefield NPC are also mannequins.

In the mog house mannequin quest the mannequin is shown as being possessed by evil and brought back to life by a Necromancer from Tavnazia, a job they supposedly wanted to add to the game but felt was too dark (which they later changed into puppetmaster)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4rtQjc9Xu4
The NMs are not mannequins. They are Proto-Ultima and Proto-Omega, which most definitely are not manneuqins. Can you please stop making these ridiculous theorycraft posts?

None of the NPCs you named are mannequins. Like.... what meds are you taking? I want some of that high.

The NPCs that give the HTMBC gems are very clearly normal NPCs.
The Monstrosity "NPCs" are Corpselights creating illusions. These corpselights are the ones you see in the Feretory.

[Zenion]

None of the NPCs you named are mannequins. Like.... what meds are you taking? I want some of that high.

The NPCs that give the HTMBC gems are very clearly normal NPCs.
The Monstrosity "NPCs" are Corpselights creating illusions. These corpselights are the ones you see in the Feretory.

Um, actually...

EDIT: Okay, thanks to Dragoy pointing out that preview is a bit broken, I can just drop the images. Link to the gallery for posterity. (https://imgur.com/a/bg6fxUW)

https://i.imgur.com/nsYQvku.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/vmJDmsp.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/W1Gf6Lh.png

[Dragoy]

[...] screen resolution is huge [...]
The forum software should resize them to a viewable size even though they look funny during the preview.

Seen that with the screenshot campaigns where my images span so far beyond the borders the borders are a dot to them.

[Alhanelem]

Um, actually...

EDIT: Okay, thanks to Dragoy pointing out that preview is a bit broken, I can just drop the images. Link to the gallery for posterity. (https://imgur.com/a/bg6fxUW)

https://i.imgur.com/nsYQvku.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/vmJDmsp.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/W1Gf6Lh.png
They're just using these models for the vacant eyes, that doesn't make them actual mannequins.

Like I said before. The Suspicious NPCs are constructs of the characters supporting Monstrosity (again: the corpselights seen in the Feretory, as well as the relevant cutscenes)
The other NPCs are just using the black/vacant eye heads for the black/vacant eyes. They aren't canonically mannequins.

[Alhanelem]

The forum software should resize them to a viewable size even though they look funny during the preview.

Seen that with the screenshot campaigns where my images span so far beyond the borders the borders are a dot to them.
I'm pretty sure you can specify a size to scale to with the IMG tags.

Edit: Try specifying a pixel width to scale to like this example:

http://example.com/your_image.jpg

[Zenion]

They're just using these models for the vacant eyes, that doesn't make them actual mannequins.

Like I said before. The Suspicious NPCs are constructs of the characters supporting Monstrosity (again: the corpselights seen in the Feretory, as well as the relevant cutscenes)
The other NPCs are just using the black/vacant eye heads for the black/vacant eyes. They aren't canonically mannequins.

Source?

The Suspicious NPCs specifically are possessing someone or something, they spell that out as part of the whole "welcome to Monstrosity, where we possess things for fun" explanation. (For extra fun, they actually call them "puppets we possess", but that isn't necessarily a literal statement.) And mannequins being possessed or coming to life is a proven thing that can happen; see A Barrel of Laughs.

[Chromium]

They're just using these models for the vacant eyes, that doesn't make them actual mannequins.

When you see an npc shown to be a mannequin it's an indication they are controlled by some force from the underworld or similar in our world, either from Tartarus (Delve) or Monstrosity demons in our world.

Even with Skirmish you enter via items made up of Mannequin parts, you trade them mannequin parts to enter.

Also I offered a link to a quest in XI where thy literally show a Tavnazia Elvaan Necromancer in the game, that brings a dead person back though the body of a mannequin.

[Chromium]

I believe the idea/lore of HTBF is that they are tests based on past battles, that Odin? creates for you.

Hence why they are mannequins controlled from the underworld, they aren't gonna allow demons in the nations.

[Zenion]

I believe the idea/lore of HTBF is that they are tests based on past battles, that Odin? creates for you.

Hence why they are mannequins controlled from the underworld, they aren't gonna allow demons in the nations.

Well, they might, Jeuno's got a few of 'em. Some demons actually can just make themselves look like people. Corpselights, not being demons, are a bit less fortunate and have to settle for borrowing existing bodies.

If I had my guess, I'd say that Odin has nothing to do with any of this stuff. We've already got a dvergr who is interested in seeing how things go when an adventurer fights stronger echoes of past foes, that's Vagary's whole deal, and it would make sense then that the underlings sent out would only be corpselights (which can be controlled by dvergr) rather than full demons (answerable only to Odin.)

[Alhanelem]

I believe the idea/lore of HTBF is that they are tests based on past battles, that Odin? creates for you.These are literally just level appropriate versions of the existing fights, the only thing that makes them test is doing them on the higher difficulty settings which does make it harder than the original fights were. But it's nothing like, say, the Extreme fights in FFXIV which dramatically change the boss mechanics.

I really don't understand why you're going around trying to find lore based excuses for everything. Some things just don't need an explanation. Even if we needed the explanation, well, there's nothing to imply or suggest Odin is the lore reason for the whims of the developers in this specific case.

[Chromium]

The test is based on the player skill and the gear and is not static, if you're a casual player in lower tier gear then E is a test to you.

If you think otherwise you don't understand anything about the game.

What you said is like saying the only real test in boxing is fighting the world champion heavyweight boxing champion.

[Chromium]

I really don't understand why you're going around trying to find lore based excuses for everything. Some things just don't need an explanation. Even if we needed the explanation, well, there's nothing to imply or suggest Odin is the lore reason for the whims of the developers in this specific case.

Because the developers put the effort to do so (they even created lore for Ambuscade to exist when they didn't have to at all), because it's a Final Fantasy game and lore matters greatly (not just on 11 but a shared mythology to them all) and because it makes the game more enjoyable to do so for those who have a more immersive / romantic view of things. It elevates it above being purely just a play and drop game.

If you simply see a game as a piece of code, that performs a task and little more that is fine for you. Don't try to force others to see things how you do.

I love the deep lore of the game, I love the huge effort and passion the original writers / lore creators and developers put into the game and that's part of why I still play and enjoy the game so much 23 years later.

[Alhanelem]

The test is based on the player skill and the gear and is not static, if you're a casual player in lower tier gear then E is a test to you.The normal fight is designed around people having gear readily obtainable within a certain time of reaching level 99 and having at least the ilvl gear obtained from sparks if not other content. It is not really more of a "test" than the original fight was when it was relevant. As I said, aside from having multiple difficulty levels, these fights are largely unchanged from the originals.


If you think otherwise you don't understand anything about the game.This is an incredibly silly thing to say. I think otherwise. I know PLENTY about the game. Probably more than you do.



What you said is like saying the only real test in boxing is fighting the world champion heavyweight boxing champion. Uh, no, it's not like saying that at all.

The HTMBFs are not designed to be extremely challenging fights. You have the option to make them harder, yes, but even then, most of these fights don't have any super fancy mechanics like what came later in the game. You want to be tested? That's what high veng Odyssey fights, Sortie bosses and master trials are for (among other things).




If you simply see a game as a piece of code, that performs a task and little more that is fine for you. Don't try to force others to see things how you do.That's not how I see it and in no way am I suggesting the lore doesn't have value. But in many of these threads you're reading way way way too deep between the lines trying to figure out things that the developers/writers probably didn't even account for. Some things in the game exist purely to serve a function and not to advance the story or lore in some way. The way you're acting here is like a conspiracy theorist, trying to uncover things that may not actually exist just because you're convinced that they do.

Lore is important and XI has a lot of it. But it really seems like you think the developers are playing 5D chess or something when I really don't believe that they went THAT deep.

Female galka don't exist. They never existed, and there is no sensical way to take some lore tidbit and convince oneself that they do or did exist at one point. By the same token, just because they used the mannequin skin on these NPCs doesn't mean it has anything to do with actual cursed mannequins or whatever. You're theory crafting at best, and inventing things at worst. You constantly make wild extrapolations that have little to no basis in any written or clearly implied lore in the game.

So take your own advice and stop trying to convince people of your wild theories.

Everyone who bothers posting here has some kind of passion for the game and that includes me, having been here since nearly the beginning just as you have. What frustrates me is your use of lore tidbits to validate asking for things that the game was never designed to have, based on some next level deep lore extrapolation. The female galka thread especially frustrated me, being a Galka player and having thoroughly enjoyed the Voracious Resurgence's exploration of the race and its history and origin story. Seeing someone cherry pick bits and pieces of this to say there are or should be female Galka is upsetting to me because the race's uniqueness is the whole reason I chose it from the beginning. And there's been more than one thread demanding a female version over the years, which I absolutely do not want to see because it would destroy a core aspect of what makes the race special.

[Zenion]

Nothing's canon unless I agree with it, stop having fun pretending the game has a story outside the officially sanctioned storylines!

Sorry, I forgot that the official forums are only for complaining about things we don't like. My bad. Guess I'll see you all next Vana'bout.

[Alhanelem]

Sorry, I forgot that the official forums are only for complaining about things we don't like. My bad. Guess I'll see you all next Vana'bout.
Stop making false quotes, thanks. I never said anything about coming up with your own stories, but anything you come up with yourself is definitely not canon by simple definition.

That said, nothing's canon unless SE agrees with it, not me. I never said you couldn't invent stories, but you can't claim that your ideas are canon.

[Chromium]

It's not inventing stories, as it's not specifically stated as cannon unless it can be proven as so.

Stating what you think something is isn't the same as stating it as cannon.

For instance the dawn maidens are not specifically stated to be the avatars anywhere (I don't think), but it's seems pretty obvious they are.

It's also not widely known that the 5 races are actually what is left of the Zilart race (outside of Sea), that however is actually cannon and is stated as such in a cut-scene few people remember.

XI likes to be very vague with its lore, and I believe part of the reason they did it that way is becasue they want people to figure these things out. The way you figure things out, is by thinking about it and talking about it.

[Alhanelem]

Stating what you think something is isn't the same as stating it as cannon.But that's basically what you've been doing...

There's nothing wrong with exploring the game's lore at all and trying to things out. But you routinely read so far in between the lines that your analyses read more like a conspiracy theory. Not everything is more complex than it was written to be. Some things may be, but some things may not be.

You reached, really, really far out there to try to invent female Galka. I don't mind lore discussion at all, but in this case, in my opinion, you were seeing things that weren't there. I also think you're reading too far into it on the NPCs with the mannequin model. I think it was just a cheap way to make sure these NPCs didn't look like regular tarus and galkas etc. FFXI is notorious for reusing assets to save space and design costs, so not every decision made about the look of a place, NPC, or object is necessarily rooted in lore.



It's also not widely known that the 5 races are actually what is left of the Zilart race (outside of Sea),I don't think you're giving the average player enough credit here. It's no big secret what connection the enlightened races have to the Zliart. Sea especially makes it plain and obvious, and as you said, it's even covered by the game in story. So it's not exactly a secret that needs revealing.

[Chromium]

Give bonuses for players who group up for the NM system (if it's free for all like Domain Invasion)

The game needs to encourage players to group up, JP players especially are shy about grouping up and giving bonuses similar to in Ambuscade would be a very good reason for them to group and break the ice.

Should also do this in Besieged too.

[Alhanelem]

Actually the game has been gradually shifting to be more solo friendly. I'm all for grouping for content that logically needs it, but most open world spawning NMs are old hat these days. The unity system made force-poppable versions of a huge number of the old school NMs, and grouping for them is beneficial.

Not sure what this has to do with limbus though.

[Chromium]

The game needs to have solo play as an option, it can't survive otherwise. As players become adults they have less time and less inclination to group up with other random people naturally.

However they should still add ways to coax players to group up in a non-stressful manner, for instance adding a group bonus for limbus NM or Besieged etc. I feel this would be highly appreciated even more by JP players, that seem to enjoy grouping even more than western players.

They just need the game to give them a reason.