Beastmen's Medal for 300 Login Points?

[Velner]

Is it true that Beastmen's Medals will be 300 points in the new Login Campaign? This creates an opportunity to just keep recreating a character, get the first time 500 login bonus, get a Beastmen's Medal, send it to another character, delete that character and recreate it, get the 500 bonus etc etc. It's basically a legal way to dupe Beastmen's Medals. That seems bad.

[Tehant]

Isn't it all legal? Why not and why shouldn't they do things like sell items for store bought currency.

[Voidstorm]

Is it true that Beastmen's Medals will be 300 points in the new Login Campaign? This creates an opportunity to just keep recreating a character, get the first time 500 login bonus, get a Beastmen's Medal, send it to another character, delete that character and recreate it, get the 500 bonus etc etc. It's basically a legal way to dupe Beastmen's Medals. That seems bad.
Only issues i see is beastmen's medal is too expensive, make it 100, and day 0 created characters should not be getting login points. a 3-day pause on login points should be plenty to avoid duping.

[Zenion]

Well, there you go. Problem solved. Now instead of rampant duping of beastmen's medals, we have a login campaign that will, if you sink all your points into it, reward you with almost one piece of reforged relic armor +2.

Shards for 1000 points might have been a better solution; it would only have been an 11% increase in the effective cost of the reward instead of 150%, but it would have moved it out of reach of freshly-made characters to minimize the duping concerns. Players could have finished one and a half pieces of gear (less than the two for 3600 points they could have gotten, but still way better than, I can't stress this enough, almost one at 3750 points for one shard and two medals.)

A voucher to just pay for the shard cost on any one piece of reforged relic +2 armor, priced anywhere from 750 to 1500 points depending on whether the aim is to get people into that gear easily or just to be a little treat, would also work very well without flooding the economy with high-value items... but that would have required a little more planning ahead, maybe it's an idea for a future iteration.

[Alhanelem]

"We're so sorry we made the beastmen medals too cheap so people can't get the items they need from Dynamis too easily."

Like really why did someone complain about this?

cost was raised to 750 login points.

[Zenion]

Excerpts from FFXIAH:


Actually, if you can code, you can get a free ~3k medals (per account). Every time you start a character you get 500 login points.

Start, medal, trade, delete, repeat nonstop for the entire 21 days.


Offering them is fine, the problem is how low the price is and that new characters can buy them since they get 500 points. It encourages delete > remake over and over.

They should set the price at 1k or it will be heavily abused, it is in effect duping.


It invalidates w1 of dyna-divergence, which gets little enough attention as it is. I'm not saying a whole lot of people go in and kill boss for medals, but it's an extra prize for doing a quick in-and-out boss for someone. People farming W1 creates shards at a cheaper rate than medals and provides a secondary market.

Is it really that much better to have a handful of RMT sitting on 50,000 medals and providing all of them at 300k/pop so you can upgrade easily? Why not make everything worth very little gil? For that matter, why not make a NPC that lets you select which r/ex pieces you'd like and get them for free?

TL;DR we can't have nice things because RMT, and tanking beastmen's medals risks stranding players who can't clear wave 1 without help from established players who will have no extrinsic incentive to help without the chance of a ~700k drop.

[Velner]

"We're so sorry we made the beastmen medals too cheap so people can't get the items they need from Dynamis too easily."

Like really why did someone complain about this?

cost was raised to 750 login points.

I made it clear why I complained about this in the OP. . . it created a situation where players could easily get infinite Beastmen's Medals due to a new character getting the 500-point first time login bonus. And it wasn't really complaining, but was just pointing out a possible oversight. . . and it turns out it was.

[Alhanelem]

I made it clear why I complained about this in the OP. . . it created a situation where players could easily get infinite Beastmen's Medals due to a new character getting the 500-point first time login bonus. And it wasn't really complaining, but was just pointing out a possible oversight. . . and it turns out it was. My understanding is new characters can't immediately particiapte in the login campaigns. Other such things that give away free(ish) stuff like the mystery box require a certain amount of time to elapse before new characters can use them. And honestly, repeatedly creating new characters to get more of these items is a bit of an ordeal (I suppose RMT bots might do it but the medals will be devalued which makes it less lucrative). Dynamis is more time gated by its entry limitations than by its item drops anyway.

But yeah, once again, we can't have nice things because RMT.

Frankly, after the update I noticed something else that's not clear if it was intended or not, but I"m not going to be the party pooper that ruins a good thing for anyone else (for once). It's the sort of thing I'd expect SE to notice if it wasn't something they meant to do.

[Rinuko]

Unless it changed in the past 1-2 updates, a fresh character can use login points day 1.

But even with this change, those that want can still stockpile but will take 4 days instead of spamming.

[Catmato]

My understanding is new characters can't immediately particiapte in the login campaigns.
You are mistaken. Brand new characters get 500 login points to be used instantly. Making the medals 500 points or less would mean an infinite supply. It has nothing to do with RMT.

[Zenion]

Unless it changed in the past 1-2 updates, a fresh character can use login points day 1.

But even with this change, those that want can still stockpile but will take 4 days instead of spamming.

That's the key thing though, with the 500 points on creation, for a 300 point item, it was make a character, get the medal, delete the character, rinse repeat; maybe one medal every 15 minutes if you're doing it manually. Waiting a few days means instead of as many medals as you feel like doing that for, the limit is 16 per account per four days, which is at least a little more controlled.

[Alhanelem]

You are mistaken. Brand new characters get 500 login points to be used instantly. Making the medals 500 points or less would mean an infinite supply. It has nothing to do with RMT.
It has everything to do with RMT, because no sane normal person is going to do this. Itt'd be like salvage bans, if SE saw that people were doing this they'd probably ban them, because it would obviously be an exploit. That by itself would keep most people from abusing it.

And while I was apparently wrong about how it works, honestly, the login campaigns should be restricted for new characters in order to prevent this sort of thing in the first place- then they can set whatever price point they want for the rewards and not have to worry about bots or people spamming new characters to exploit it. It doesn't even have to be 30 days, it could just be one week or even a few days.

Alternatively, they could move the 400 bonus points to a later login.

[CAdP_]

Alternatively, they could move the 400 bonus points to a later login.
I'd be in favor of them returning to the old point structure, honestly (the 10-20-30-40 first four days, then 500-100-100-100-100 repeating, and the 11th day gets a bonus 1k). Why did they change it in the first place?

[Catmato]

It has everything to do with RMT, because no sane normal person is going to do this.

People do it for dwarf pugils/drill calamari all the time, and that's just for fishing. If you think normal non-RMT players wouldn't do it for gil, you really don't know the playerbase of this game at all.

[Alhanelem]

People do it for dwarf pugils/drill calamari all the time, and that's just for fishing. If you think normal non-RMT players wouldn't do it for gil, you really don't know the playerbase of this game at all.
That's not what I said, I used to sell the HNM poppers among other things. But I didn't spam-create new characters to do it (in part because that means paying for more character slots). It is mostly RMT that do things like this. Only the most serious non RMT players are going to bother with this.

I think it is you who doesn't know the playerbase of the game at all. The multi-boxing, playing 24 7, doing all content and all daily things every day on 16 character slots player is not the typical player.

[Catmato]

That's not what I said, I used to sell the HNM poppers among other things. But I didn't spam-create new characters to do it (in part because that means paying for more character slots). It is mostly RMT that do things like this. Only the most serious non RMT players are going to bother with this.

5 minutes, mostly unattended, to make a new character and get through the opening cutscene, to make 500k. If you think only RMT would bother with that, I... really don't know what to tell you.


I think it is you who doesn't know the playerbase of the game at all. The multi-boxing, playing 24 7, doing all content and all daily things every day on 16 character slots player is not the typical player.

I have no idea what you mean by this or why you think it's relevant to this discussion.

[Alhanelem]

5 minutes, mostly unattended, to make a new character and get through the opening cutscene, to make 500k. If you think only RMT would bother with that, I... really don't know what to tell you.If people actually did this routinely, the item would not hold this value.

And making a character is not a one button, unattended process unless you use tools to automate it. Ordinary players are not that likely to be using or willing to use automation to achieve this.



I have no idea what you mean by this or why you think it's relevant to this discussion. If you don't have any idea than I can't explain it to you, because it's obvious. You represent that you think spamming a ton of characters to collect many login bonuses is typical behavior, and I'm here to tell you that it isn't. It should be pretty clear why that's relevant.

[Catmato]

If people actually did this routinely, the item would not hold this value.

And making a character is not a one button, unattended process unless you use tools to automate it. Ordinary players are not that likely to be using or willing to use automation to achieve this. OMG automation tools?!? Surely nobody playing FFXI would even consider using any kind of automation tool! Whatever could I have been thinking?



If you don't have any idea than I can't explain it to you, because it's obvious. You represent that you think spamming a ton of characters to collect many login bonuses is typical behavior, and I'm here to tell you that it isn't. It should be pretty clear why that's relevant.

It's not obvious. Why are you talking about 24/7 players? That has no relevance to this conversation.

Also, point out to me where I said that typical players would do this? Not every non-RMT player is a "typical" player, whatever that means. You're making a lot of generalizations and assumptions to make up nonsensical arguments. Please refrain from replying to me unless you have some kind of actual clear point to make, and you can do it without bringing up irrelevant nonsense.

[Alhanelem]

OMG automation tools?!? Surely nobody playing FFXI would even consider using any kind of automation tool! Whatever could I have been thinking?Obviously its a thing, even if technically you're not supposed to, but again, this isn't something that simply everybody does.



It's not obvious. Why are you talking about 24/7 players? That has no relevance to this conversation. It has all the relevance, because the most hardcore players are the ones more likely to engage in this behavior. Are you being purposely obtuse?

There is noting "nonsensical" about my arguments, and the generalizations are reasonable and based on direct observation. I don't do these things, nobody I know does these things, if you dispute that, present evidence to the contrary.

And even if you think im full of ????, I already outlined multiple other ways that this could be fixed both now and for the future, such that you can set any price for anything you want to offer for Login Points, without it being even potentially too easy to abuse.

[Catmato]

I don't do these things, nobody I know does these things, if you dispute that, present evidence to the contrary.
Sorry, I can't present evidence that you or that anybody you know has created a new character to get a login point item. Doesn't make any sense for me to try to provide evidence about you or people who you claim to know.


It has all the relevance, because the most hardcore players are the ones more likely to engage in this behavior.
Not sure where you're getting this idea from. The hardest of hardcore players would scoff at spending 5 minutes to make 500k; they're capped on gil anyway. Oh wait, I thought it was only RMT who would do this? Can you get your theoretical story straight?


I already outlined multiple other ways that this could be fixed both now and for the future, such that you can set any price for anything you want to offer for Login Points, without it being even potentially too easy to abuse.
Why would you need to offer a solution? They already fixed it for medals by raising the price beyond 500 points. They also must not really care about people "abusing" login points in this way since it's still the fastest, cheapest way to get rare/ex bait.

[Alhanelem]

Why would you need to offer a solutionBecause I think there are better solutions, which would limit what SE can do less and which dont result in 'cant have a nice thing due to RMT/abuse"

Everything else, I agree to disagree.