Duel Weild

[Spero]

Blue Mage at low levels need access to DW. We have very few sheilds to access. We need DW so we are not limiter to Ninja or dnc for subs. I like useing rdm as sub for the En spells and the enfeble spells. We have enough spells that could be combined for a tiered DW.

[Andevom]

But why should Blue Mage have access to it at low levels when other jobs don't? If you want that specific perk, you need to use specific subjobs. It's how things are structured.

[Dhragon]

Blu's have no "need" for DW at low lvls. Nor do they truely need to be concerned with what shield options there are at low lvls. DW isn't a requirement, it's a luxury. We are good at what we do because of the spells we have (and the traits the spell combos give), not because we have an extra sword on us.

[Aeonk]

"low levels" needs to be a tad more specific. maybe it's changed since when i lvled it the first time, but from what i recall there was a whole lot of bludgeon'ing around the 20ish range with next to no sword DPS. Dual wield didn't do jack for me, cause all the dmg came from spells anyway.

Around 40ish is when sword DPS started being important.

[Felren]

I really agree with the OP, when i'm opening chests on low level job, dual wielding keys is very useful. We shouldn't have to sub nin at low level blu to open chests with both hands.

[Volkai]

BLue Mage is not a job primarily about physical weaponry. Therefore it does not make sense for it to have Dual Wield at a low level.

As it stands, BLU can get Dual Wield I at 20 from one sub, 40 from another, and at 80 by itself. Dual Wield II at 50 from one sub, 80 from another, and 89 by itself. Finally, BLU can get Dual Wield III at 90 from one sub. This is a plentiful number of dual wielding options.

Really, just be happy you can get tier II natively, and that tier I native comes before THF gets it.

[Dais]

The first tier of the trait is not that potent. I would be just as happy seeing a str+1, vit+1, def 6 or so shield for blu somewhere in the mid-twenties young blue mages could use for several levels.
Fencer at low levels would be amazing but I doubt we would ever see that. Hmm maybe a shield with fencer +1?

[Spero]

I'm lvl. 56 , I like to use rdm as my sub, either better sheilds or dw would help for solo.

[wolfshadow]

I'm lvl. 56 , I like to use rdm as my sub, either better sheilds or dw would help for solo.

Solution: level /nin, get hit less WHILE you deal more damage. /rdm will give you practically nothing at that level. If you come up with something you'd rather /rdm instead of /nin for that you're meleeing solo then let me know.

[Spero]

Guess I'll have to lvl ninja more. I have ninja at 27. I'm having trouble getting some of my spells that I can get at this lvl. Where would be a good place to lvl at 56?

[Scuro]

Ya I don't see a point in giving BLU a lower tier Dual wield, we already get it as is, and honestly, if your going to do physical magic these days, your going to sub /NIN, because god knows you steal ungodly amounts of hate by doing the spells. It can only benefit you to invest in NIN, although I hate the idea of the old days where /NIN was mandatory if your frontline, its only practical. Its like DNC that use /NIN, its not that the dual wield really benefits them anymore, its because when your DNC your doing all kinds of stuff that pulls hate really easy and your going to tank unless you have a PLD on the ball or somethin. So you need them shadows. Lower levels if your not going to dual wield, invest in an Archeron Shield, or get a few friends at 90 to knock over Genbu and get a Genbu's Shield. Those are your best alternatives to dual wielding. Yet at low levels it is true, your sword isn't as important as it is in higher levels, and although I wouldn't say all you do is casting, because your sword is just as fundemental as your magic is (can't use chain affinity better if you ain't got the tp, brother) but pretty much low levels is all about Sprout Smack + Wild Oats + Bludeon + Headbutt + Wash + Repeat.

[Chocobits]

Do pre-80 job mechanics still matter?

Solo or duo 1-30 in 3-4 hours.

Shout "Hey any other 17 or so idiots wanna do Dominion with me? I has a key!"

90 job in 1-2 days: Check.

Then you shout "Skill Up Can I have it?"

Rinse, repeat x19

[Xilk]

Do pre-80 job mechanics still matter?

Solo or duo 1-30 in 3-4 hours.

Shout "Hey any other 17 or so idiots wanna do Dominion with me? I has a key!"

90 job in 1-2 days: Check.

Then you shout "Skill Up Can I have it?"

Rinse, repeat x19

doesn't work well with blue. It takes far longer than this to just learn the spells.

[Scuro]

Ya I fail too see why BLU needs a dual wielding trait at lower levels. It already has so much dual wield capability at higher levels, not to mention the fact that we can equip double attack trait, and homam/AF3 haste gear as well as a brutal earring. I mean really... TP'n at this point is not even an issue with BLU, and hell if you even want, throw in Zanshin with your double attack for when you miss. Idk personally I don't see a requirement for why BLU should get a dual wield delay to rival DNC and NIN, although this is not too say I wouldn't think that would be cool, but then again who wouldn't be game for pissing off another class that isn't your favorite and breaking a already good job. I'm game for it, but I doubt SE would be, so ya I just would invest in some haste/acc gear and use your already double attack traits wisely as well as dual wield (Suppanomimi a go-go) and get to crack'n on that TP

[Scuro]

Also I think what your asking Chocobits isn't really relevent to the conversation, yet to answer it, I would say no, that is not the case. These days many parties are actually cracking down in who they let key whore, if they allow key whoring at all. Now a days you have to know the party leader or having made the party in order to get the position. And even then, it is strongly being discouraged and looked down upon (this is not to say its eliminated but is not as accepted as before). Now a days, dominion especially, people do not want to take jobs that are less then 70-75 and even that is considered pushing it.

[Sylar]

I've seen the exact opposite trend lately. Every pick-up party I've had in the past few weeks in Abyssea has had at least three leeches, and usually only one or MAYBE two of them has actually been doing anything. Coincidentally, most of the parties I had also sucked and I only stayed with them because I was barely paying attention anyway.

It's stupid to expect anyone who's not your friend to let you into their party to keywhore/leech anyway. Why do people feel entitled to get something for nothing? If you really want to keywhore, make your own damn party instead of bothering every single person who shouts, especially when they're shouting as a level 30 job.

On-topic: BLU doesn't absolutely need native Dual Wield at any level, and getting Dual Wield II was more than I thought BLU would ever get a year ago. It's a privilege, not a right. Most mage subjobs at lower levels really don't add anything to your effectiveness in a party (Enspells and Phalanx are useless from a subjob if your main job doesn't have any enhancing magic skill), and if you're soloing you should be using NIN or DNC as a sub anyway just for survivability (unless you like stopping to rest every 5 minutes, I guess). The only reason I can think of for not wanting to sub NIN at low levels is because you're too lazy to level it or quest utsusemi.

It'd be great if they gave BLU shield skill, but it'd make more sense if they gave us throwing skill. Seriously, BLU is on every multijob chakram, but we have zero throwing skill when every other back-line mage job gets it. What?

[Spero]

From what I'm reading, a lot of the things your talking about are not available to a lvl 56 Blu. I 've been soloing my lvls and getting my spells. Useing ninja as a sub trying to keep shadows up is sometimes impossable. What lvl can we use double Attack?

[Vivik]

Also I think what your asking Chocobits isn't really relevent to the conversation, yet to answer it, I would say no, that is not the case. These days many parties are actually cracking down in who they let key whore, if they allow key whoring at all. Now a days you have to know the party leader or having made the party in order to get the position. And even then, it is strongly being discouraged and looked down upon (this is not to say its eliminated but is not as accepted as before). Now a days, dominion especially, people do not want to take jobs that are less then 70-75 and even that is considered pushing it.

He did say get 17 others to join. Also, I have never had a problem being a keyh0r in abyssea. As a matter of fact I see plenty of shouts every day on my server for chest people because less and less people want to spend their cruor on keys.
Not for nothing but I think your server must be a special one because keyh0ring is not nearly taboo as you're trying to make it sound.

[Spero]

Which version of Abyssea do you need for Keyhoring?

[Vivik]

Which version of Abyssea do you need for Keyhoring?

All of them.

[Scuro]

I'm not saying Key whoring is completely gone, definitely not. But getting the positions are not exactly as easy as they used to be. Before you just had to shout or jump into a group and you were in it now you kinda have to know somebody, except for a few acceptions in which they just allow anyone off the street to do it. Mostly you are the key whore because you made the party, your LS made the party so they let you key whore, or your friends allow you to key whore.

Yet on Odin for instance, its not as keen as it used to, I had my cousin try to key whore his alt. char. and the party kept giving him shit about his alt. being there. And I've heard of as well as been apart of many other instances in which this was the case. Most parties (on Odin) are pushing limits on who is acceptable to bring into the party these days rather then picking up just any 30, again I'm not saying its completely gone, I'm saying its not as crazy as it used to be. Its still around, just not as much.