New update, new subjob?

[Kagato]

As we all know, with 3 minutes of Last Resort, that's 3 minutes of Desperate blows, which at 5/5 is 3 minutes of 25% haste. We have a self-sustaining 50% haste now without the need for a subjob to do it.

What does this mean? It basically means Hasso is now a waste of time. The +STR and ACC bonus it gives doesn't warrant continued use when we don't need the Haste it gives.

So, without Hasso, that basically leaves us Meditate, Sekkanoki, Store TP, and Seigan/Third Eye.

IMO, not even Seigan/Third Eye is worth it when we can just /NIN for Utsusemi and not take a hit to our magic recast. So that leaves Meditate, Sekkanoki and Store TP.

Now lets break those down. Sekkanoki is great to save extra TP. But when you really think about it, there's no real need for it since you should be using your Weapon Skill once you hit 100TP anyway. Honestly, I can live without it.

Meditate, I can also find myself living without. Sure, it's great to build up for a fast WS, but with how quickly we attack now, not to mention VV having regain, it just seems like we don't need it as much as we used to.

Now we move on to the big one: Store TP. This, honestly, is what is keeping me reluctant to try a new subjob. Store TP is important in order to maintain an xhit build with less need for gear. Losing /SAM means losing 15 Store TP IIRC.


So, what's the alternative? Well, I believe /WAR is. Stacking Berserk on Last Resort, throwing in Warcry, and having quite a lot of Double Attack will have us swinging quite often while hitting hard in the process and while having 50% haste for 3 minutes every 70 seconds (if you merited LR recast time). Thats a lot of swings, all done quickly, which makes for some serious DDing power.

However, is it enough to dump /SAM for? Perhaps /NIN is the way to go? Or maybe even /BLU to add some magical haste and defensive capabilities?

I'd like to hear your opinions: /SAM, /WAR, /NIN, /BLU, or anything else. What's your opinion?

Note: Be respectful towards everyone's opinions, please.

[noodles355]

What does this mean? It basically means Hasso is now a waste of time. What about the 2/5ths of your Damage where Last Resort isn't up? Even only needed for 40% of the time, Hasso will still be a significant boost to your DoT.

Edit:
With 25% gear haste and the whm haste spell, adding hasso is an increase of 20% to your DoT for the 2 minutes out of 5 that Last Resort is down. That equates an 8% increase in your total DoT.
If /Sam's STP is needed to help you achieve a 6hit then the STP will add around a 6-9% total boost depending on yout TP:WS split ratio. If you need /Sam's STP for a 5hit, that boost will be around 8-12%

Adding Warrior's Double Attack on top of Brutal, Pole Grip and Atheling Mantle will be an increase of 9.1%. Most of Berserk's Affect will be lost to the attack cap more often than not, as will Agressor to the Acc cap. Conclusion: /War will have slightly better DoT but sacrifices it's defence through losing Seigan.

Subbing /Blu to be able to Haste yourself is a fairly poor idea. You would be better off having competant mages who keep you hasted themselves. /Blu also has some defence bonuses however Cocoon at least is a spell with a bit of a long cast time and fairly short duration meaning you will be losing out on many potential melee swings by keeping it up.

/Sam will still give a significant boost to your DoT. You lower /sam's effectiveness by 12% by changing from 100% Hasso to 2/5ths Hasso. Sam however still remains a strong SJ due to it's added defensive capabilities.

The likely conclusion will be: If you need /Sam's STP for a specific X-hit build, then it is the subjob to use. If you don't, it will probably still be the subjob to use as it still offers a lot to you offensively whilst giving you defensive abilities too. Something which the other SJs dont. /Nin will remain as it is now: A tanking sub for difficult NMs.

[Dart]

I really don't see our SJ choices changing all that much. Maintaining a 4/5/6 hit with all this haste is what will give us the most significant boost to our total damage out of anything /war offers.

One sub, in abyssea only, that not nearly enough drk's try out is /mnk and CS tanking. Maybe now with the added haste and doing more total dmg will allow us to hold more hate and fully utilize /mnk. Its fun and useful when it works.

[Jar]

/SCH GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Gradd]

99.5% positive /sam is still the way to go in terms of raw damage.

NIN I hate passionatley its the worste SJ in the game for DPS, anytime you stop to cast ichi/ni (especially ichi) its hurting your DPS, if I am tanking on DRK inside of abyssea I prefer /mnk. If I want shadows I will just play NIN and not get hit at all x: Pleeeaaaaaaaaaaase don't argue getting hit by nukes either or TP moves, even MNKs (good ones) MNK/WAR to everything, getting hit by a measly nuke inside abyssea isnt an issue anymore. WHM has nearly infinite MP shadows are just dumb to me. I play WHM alot probably more than all my other jobs right now and I can tell you subbing /nin is pointless, the only damage tanks really take from these days is from TP moves/Nukes and 1 cure 6 is usually enough to fill that HP right back up and seconds later your MP is back to 100%.

Especially with Caladbolg losing that 7-hit (its bad enough we have to use such a high x-hit build) just seems like too much to me, and LR is down for like 70 seconds you still have hasso during that time frame which doesnt make hasso completley useless.

If you are tanking on DRK for whatever reason /mnk is a very good choice of sub job, you can get a decently strong counter rate with GH/RL, I have 2boxed the majority of NMs in the game DRK/MNK with my WHM mule before I leveled NIN it works surprisingly well if you want to play DRK and tank.

If a mob or NM has a high enough HP pool to last Sekkanoki is very strong, Torcleaver >>> Torcleaver >>> Light can knock quite a bit of HP off a NMs health.

I just can't see /war winning out on anything, between Food Last Resort and Stalwarts you should be hitting the attack cap on the majority of things.

[Urteil]

I really hate /sam.

I use it, but I really fucking hate /sam and how every DD has to use /sam.

I am never going to sit here and say that /sam will not provide the most melee damage in the shortest amount of time possible.

However I find shadows are often more reliable than Third Eye and by reliable I mean comparing a piece of plastic to steel door. In low man situations 3-5 people I say that a skilled Dark Knight with a competent fast cast set (Oh shit already stepped into the realm of impossibility here) can live far longer because DEEPS doesn't mean doodle if you are dead.

But if you have the luxury of a WHM throwing cure VI around like its going out of style, /sam all the way.

[Rezeak]

I think /WAR will be situational because u should be able to cap pdif with just LR,Endark and Food

Sad thing is if ya in a party that doesn't haste you /WHM is the best sub....

Either way i'll proly stay on /SAM for sekkioni and meditate and use /WAR and /THF sitituationaly

[vedder]

i agree with gradd an dart on this /war just isnt adding quit enough to us to let go of /sam but its nice i can now ride seigan third eye with lr up for dding ..........

[Cruentus]

All of the below makes note of what a job at level 99 can do. I know we aren't there yet, but it's nice to plan ahead.

Let me go over every potential support job choice for a dark knight here fairly quickly, then. First, as we all know, the dark knight's job is to make things dead. Very, very dead. Let's see what helps with that.

Ninja as a support job grants access to ninjutsu, up to 150 ninjutsu skill to use it with, Dual Wield III, Subtle Blow III, Stealth, and Resist Bind II. The ninjutsu we get is basically everything that's not new and not Group 2 Ninja Merits. With a ninjutsu skill of 150 at best, the only useful ninjutsu is Monomi: Ichi, Tonko, and Utsusemi. None of this helps with our damage output at all, unless you're stupid and not using a scythe or great sword, in which case, you're either new (and thus can't really be blamed for your idiocy yet) or you're beyond remedy. Stealth is a joke, pretty much all Resist Status job traits are a joke (especially with only two tiers of it), and that leaves Subtle Blow, which is okay, but unnecessary, unless you're up against something that spams really, really nasty TP moves. This is purely a defensive support job, and since the job of a dark knight is to make things dead, it's a stupid choice, especially when you're getting your ninjutsu interrupted at least half the time due to 150 skill.

The current support job star for dark knights is the samurai. Store TP II, Resist Blind III, Demon Killer, and Zanshin for job traits, plus Hasso, Seigan, Third Eye, Sekkanoki, Warding Circle, and Meditate as job abilities. First of all, having two tiers of Store TP in job traits alone is amazing, and Zanshin comes in handy in case you whiff. Demon Killer and Warding Circle can come in handy at times, since there are demons that need to be killed. Seigan and Third Eye is a decent defense that, while unable to deal with magic, certainly helps with any melee assault, potentially more than Utsusemi can. Then there's Hasso, which is extra STR and Accuracy, even if we don't need the Haste. Remember, the dark knight's job is to make things dead. Hasso helps. Meditate is an almost-instant 60% TP, which means more weapon skills in less time, and Sekkanoki lets us create our own skillchains, which we can magic burst ourselves. You could go Sekkanoki, Infernal Scythe, Guillotine (thus creating Compression), and Drain II, and hit 2500 HP outside of Abyssea. Against an NM, you could go Guillotine and Spinning Scythe for Fragmentation, then magic burst it with Stun for an extended duration. The only drawbacks are the penalty to spellcasting with Seigan or Hasso up, but with a recast timer of one minute, you could just take it off, cast your spell, and use the ability again.

Warrior as a support job is all about making things dead as well, it's just more of a "kill or be killed" style, since it has only one defensive job ability. The job traits you get with this are Resist Virus II, Defense Bonus, Fencer, and the infamous Double Attack. For job abilities, you get Provoke, Berserk, Defender, Warcry, and Aggressor. There are also some weapon skills that you can only access as a warrior, or with warrior set as your support job, but they're really only useful for weakness targeting in Abyssea, since dark knights should be almost exclusively using Guillotine, Insurgency, Torcleaver, or Spinning Slash for sheer damage. First, with Double Attack as a job trait, that's a 10% chance of it, and since it doesn't matter if your first hit actually hits, Double Attack outclasses Zanshin. Warcry enhances the attacks of you and your party, and Berserk is basically a second, weaker version of Last Resort (assuming you did your merits correctly). Aggressor is a handy accuracy tool, since dark knights shouldn't need to evade, especially not when you have Dread Spikes up. That just leaves Defender, which is worthless to a dark knight 95% of the time. All in all, this is a great choice, especially if you're using a pole grip and/or a brutal earring. Whether or not it can outclass samurai as a support job, however, will require actual testing. It should also be noted that the dark knight and the warrior have the best STR of all jobs, so putting them together creates the highest possible base STR...not that this matters much, but I thought I'd point it out.

Thief as a support job gives you Resist Gravity II, Evasion Bonus II, Treasure Hunter II, Gilfinder, Flee, Steal, Mug, Sneak Attack, Trick Attack, and Hide. This is useful solely for farming, and not for damage dealing. Gilfinder, Steal, and Mug all prove that much. Evasion Bonus and Resist Gravity are useless, and Treasure Hunter should be left to the thief as a main job. As for job abilities, Hide is only useful when you're running away, Flee doesn't increase your damage output, and that just leaves Sneak Attack and Trick Attack. Sneak Attack makes a critical hit certain when you hit from behind, making it useful if you can position yourself correctly. Since dark knights draw a whole lot of enmity, this will be rare. Trick Attack should only be used from behind your tank, and that's if you have one. That being said, it's kind of handy if your Dread Spikes are down/useless (given that undead monsters are immune to it), and your Last Resort and/or Souleater are still up. It's not nearly enough to warrant using it, however.

As a support job, blue mage gives you Burst Affinity and Chain Affinity, which lets you use your blue magic to either magic burst or skillchain. Chain Affinity is obviously more useful, since dark knights have black magic already. Then you also get a ton of blue magic, but you can only use up to 14 spells at a time, and their combined blue magic points can't exceed 30. You get everything from Sandspin to Jettatura, but several of the blue magic here is really just Aspir, Drain, and Stun all over again. Sure, you get your own healing and Haste spells, but with 150 blue magic skill, DRK/BLU suffers from the same problem as DRK/NIN, and that is you're going to get interrupted at least half the time if you have hate. On top of that, your enfeebling blue magic (like Head Butt) is mainly governed by your blue magic skill, which is 150 at DRK99/BLU. This means it won't be working very well at all. As for blue magic combinations, the only really useful ones are Mysterious Light and Metallic Body (Max MP Bonus), Healing Breeze and Sheep Song (Auto Regen), Sound Blast and Cursed Sphere (Magic Attack Bonus), and maybe Poison Breath and Awful Eye (Clear Mind), which you can add Soporific to. I'd say to set spells to get Attack Bonus, but as a dark knight, you already get five tiers of that, making the blue magic version worthless. As you can see, this is a very magic-oriented choice, and clearly not the best. With 150 blue magic skill, your blue magic is pretty much restricted solely to buffs and healing, and it's likely to get interrupted. Leave blue magic to those who take the blue mage job to level 90.

Scholar as a support job is even more magic-oriented than the blue mage, but it's also more useful on that side of the spectrum. With Dark Arts, your enfeebling magic skill goes up, and almost all of your magic gets a bit of a boost. You also get Parsimony to halve your next spell's MP cost, Alacrity to cast your next spell in half the time, and Manifestation to make your next single-target spell an area-of-effect one (but this doubles the MP cost as well). The bad part is that you only get two Grimoire charges, and you get one back every two minutes, which is a bit slow. You do get Klimaform, however, which is dark magic (so the A- skill a dark knight already has comes in very handy), and helps your magic accuracy when combined with Firestorm, Hailstorm, Rainstorm, Sandstorm, or Windstorm, unless you get lucky on the weather without using your white magic. You also get Sublimation to help restore your MP, which works well alongside Stoneskin, Regen II, Aspir, and Aspir II. You also get Resist Silence II, Clear Mind II, Max MP Boost, and Conserve MP, and I guess you shouldn't forget about Light Arts and the white magic buffs you can get (but you shouldn't waste Grimoire charges on Light Arts stratagems). Addendum: Black gives you Dispel, also. All in all, this is a very good support job for the magic side, but a dark knight should be focusing on melee damage, making this a good choice solely for Besieged, and only when you want to increase your magic skill levels.

So, all in all, warrior and samurai win.

[Kagato]

I disagree with BLU not being so useful. For survival's sake, it adds a lot of options. The only blue magic spells that wouldn't really be too beneficial are the ones that take a long time to cast mid-battle. Otherwise you can chuck out a stun and then cast it.

Urteil would know more on the subject than me since he plans on giving it a shot. Otherwise, I'm in full agreement with what's written there.

[Jar]

I disagree with BLU not being so useful. For survival's sake, it adds a lot of options. The only blue magic spells that wouldn't really be too beneficial are the ones that take a long time to cast mid-battle. Otherwise you can chuck out a stun and then cast it.

Urteil would know more on the subject than me since he plans on giving it a shot. Otherwise, I'm in full agreement with what's written there.

yeah phys blue magic is a waste /blu because blue magic skill is a huge factor in attack and base damage <_<

the magic blu magic all has longercasting times and acc is blue magic skill..

what did you want it for agian?

oh right prob cocoon so usefull....................................

[Dart]

you can land sheep song on jesus!

God i hated that in ballista <_<

[Urteil]

you can land sheep song on jesus!

God i hated that in ballista <_<

#!@$!@$!#$$

/signed

[Fyreus]

The other thing is that headbutt is mainly an acc thing while the blu skill helps increase the proc rate. On rng/blu with axe i still get to stun dc lol so i guess it may or may not be an option to some but its nice to have here and there

[Urteil]

The only reason I'd be considering /blu is because with Desperate Blows up all the time I don't really see much keeping hate off me, I don't want to waste time casting shadows and Third Eye is a PoS.

You have the VIT (Especially with Caladbolg) to back up Cocoon's defense boost, VIT is going to be a better stat now with the modifications to critical damage.

And there is some minimal utility I suppose from the Blue Magic spells we have access to/ traits.

[Rezeak]

With /THF sub there are time for me it adds alot more DMG than /SAM in abyssea.

For example when i was fighting the mega boss cerb inside abyssea atlep i was there with another DRK/SAM using Caladborg his WS were doing 900-1.5k most of the time and i was doing 5k-6k WS which easily put me well ahead of him in DMG.

Like i said it's not all the time.

As for /BLU i don't think i'd ever use it unless i'm missing some job trait.

[Apocalypse]

at events im usually told to come /nin but i usually play /sam.. as for /thf dmgs r nice but it slow you down abit vs mnk, war, sam, nin. and for /war its nice to have DA and all... when it all comes to bottom, id rather play as /sam.

[vedder]

when i didnt 2box my own whm i occasionally used /rdm, refresh fast cast stoneskin phalanx are decent spells and with fast cast jt plus when done killing u can rebuff/cure up with healing spells its got a nice niche

leveling /sch atm to see how it works but its just a gimick sj i think similar to but not out performing /mnk in abyssea (25 mnk atm >< gdi knew i shoulda hit 30 all those years ago)

[Dart]

as always it depends on what you're trying to do. For pure dmg. Nothing is beating /sam and x hit build. Nothing.

/rdm is fun if i'm on stun duty or generally messing around but I almost never use it. Again it all depends on what you're trying to do. I play drk like a pure dd job so I'm always trying to maximize my damage output.

never tried /blu outside ballista so I can't comment from personal experience.

as previously mentioned. /mnk is a barrel of fun if you can keep hate.

/war if i'm feeling suicidal and wanna play around a bit, but again I almost never go this route.

I don't /nin anymore. I don't see a reason to on drk (or really any job) with whm's in god mode. If they claim that they can't handle it if you aren't /nin. Then you need to get better mages. I'm sorry, I know that is assholish but its just the plain truth. Have those people come on brd or blm for yellow and shut up.

/thf is cute for spike dmg but it will never outdamage /sam on any type of extended engagement.

[Rezeak]

From my experience it has I mean I've even been in a couple of situation where it has been DRK/THF (with Espafut+2) and DRK/SAM (with Caladborg) and even with the empryan advantage i'm still well ahead because on the harder mobs your looking at 4-5X WS DMG.

It looked like the SAM got just under double the number of WS off and had alot more melee DMG (mainly cause his aftermath and all but he had like 10-20% more hits off overall) but me getting 4-5x More DMG than his WS push me over by a fair distance.

Really it's only true on the harder stuff in abyssea the avg day to day mob or lower tier mobs /SAM is what i'd use.
But when i fight anything tough i find /THF always puts closer to the WARs and MNKs occasionally beating them but thats more to do with me surviving than DMG lol.

Tho after the update i may drop /THF for /WAR i mean being able to cap pdif with berserk and last resort on the harder mobs could push /WAR over /THf in those sitituations i dunno i'll just try it when it comes out.

As to you Dart you did say before you always have a BRD with you well if i did i'm sure i'd /SAM over /THF because i'm guessing ya always in a high haste situation and in that kind place hasso alone is adding about another 50% DMG

[Kagato]

Talking with a friend of mine, I think I'll keep /SAM as my go-to sub, but I'll keep /WAR in mind as well. I'll also level up BLU as well because with DRK's damage output getting a huge boost, especially if Souleater is better than expected, I think the defensive and unique options /BLU can provide will prove useful in a few situations.

Regardless, I think the Store TP from /SAM is just a little too good to pass up. Especially if I plan on using the low-delay Redemption.

[RaenRyong]

It looked like the SAM got just under double the number of WS off and had alot more melee DMG (mainly cause his aftermath and all but he had like 10-20% more hits off overall) but me getting 4-5x More DMG than his WS push me over by a fair distance.

Critical hits don't multiply your damage by 4-5x.

/war: paper tank and not as good as /sam
/sam: best
/blu: waste for reasons listed above.
/thf: lol

[Jar]

Critical hits don't multiply your damage by 4-5x.

/war: paper tank and not as good as /sam
/sam: best
/blu: waste for reasons listed above.
/thf: lol

/thf will with torcleaver on alot of abyssea NMs

[RaenRyong]

Critical hits add 1 to existing pdif. For this to multiply your damage by 5, you would need 0.2 pdif beforehand. For this to multiply your damage by 4, you would need 0.25 pdif.

It would be generous to say that criticals double your damage in a realistic situation, and then add Razed Ruins bonus... it's not approaching 4-5x.

/thf is dire.

[Rezeak]

@ 1.00 pdif + Crit = x2 DMG X Crit DMG bonus 1.40 = 2.80x DMG (which is fair enough on harder NMs)

Then the rest was made up by atma choice and playstyle.
DRK/SAM was using VV RR Apoc and DRK/THF used VV RR and 50 Vit atma
Like i said the DRK/SAM go off x2 more WS than me because i was holding TP till i used Sneak attack. Aka i'd Sneak attack > WS > WS > Sneak attack > WS > WS
Using absorb tp before the sneak attacked WS.

Either way on the parse it showed 4-5X DMG more from WS DMG alone.

Anyway i'm not really bothered about the maths it's been the results i've had with the sub of repeatedly beating what my DRK/SAM can do in low haste, Hard NM situation.

My DRK/SAM has all AF+2 Twilight helm and Adaman Body and i use a selection of weapons depending on situation OAT Def down and twilight Scythes then Espafut +2 it's not like it's lacking anything except Twilight body and Empyrean and to do with playing DRK i know SAM is basically just hitting your lowest hit build while spamming the jas fast as you can't without wasting them but still my DRK/THF beats it in some situations.

That being said i do admit /SAM will beat /THF in any situation ur capping haste with a BRD also any case you can't land Sneak attack reliably and any case you in the higher end of the pdif section.

But that being said it's far from dire.

And while i don't really consider SC in the DMG waiting 10 secs to close light of a WAR spamming Ukko's with a SA Torcleaver so u can do up to 10k DMG is never a bad thing.

Also any situation where we Fight NMs and it's WS only (aka tp off mobs and WS on NM) DRK/THF totally owns DRK/SAM

[Dart]

what mobs are you ws'ing only on? doing 4k+ ws you become the tank. What job is going to hold hate off you? Certainly not ninja. Warrior might be able too but they'll be /sam and tanking....

[Jar]

what mobs are you ws'ing only on? doing 4k+ ws you become the tank. What job is going to hold hate off you? Certainly not ninja. Warrior might be able too but they'll be /sam and tanking....

trick attack! also after hate caps just stand on other side of mob from other DD and time SA right

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Would mnk not be a good defensive subjob, at least in Abyssea with the Counter ATMA etcetera, Especially with the hate DRK will take with enhanced Last Resort and the basically capped delay reduction from all the haste?

[vedder]

yes mr hatcher its been discussed multiple times on multiple forums but its only good if your actually the tank eg holding hate so ur counter attacks add to your dps(dont get tp though) and it requires a rather specific atma selection if im not wrong, RR/RL/GH? dart an gradd i think have used it, in still lacking RL an /mnk25 atm busy working on ls empys an my caladbolg to work on things post empy lol

[Rezeak]

Hate issues really never seem to be that big of a deal with 3k HP but i'll go over it

This isn't for all mobs but most.
From the start we have a MNK normal DDing it and therefore capping hate while we are just getting staggers.
Once we get staggers all the DDs go all out to bring down the mob as fast as possible.

When i'm playing DRK/THF the first WS i won't get hate off a Tank because of the -50 enmity i have from Souleater
By the second one i may get hate for a short period of time but it'll be taken off by some other DD before i die because in my ls most DD have emperyans now i think we have err 8 or 9.

Really as far as things go Taking a few melee hits isn't a big issue it's the TP moves that are the things that kill people when i do abyssea.

And yes occsonally i do die before i get to the 3rd SA Torcleaver but most stuff we fight rarly lasts 3 mins after stagger so it doesn't even matter that much.

Ofc if your in a low man group where the only DDs are You and the Tank (NIN PLD MNK w/e) then yea ofc /SAM or /NIN because u can't SA a mob that is hitting you.

[Dart]

trick attack! also after hate caps just stand on other side of mob from other DD and time SA right

you're still completely gimping your total dmg potential this way. /sam and ws spam. ride SE (especially with a 1 hit ws, this makes SE very manageable even for a mediocre whm. It really annoys a whm to see you go from full to half hp when you use a 4 hit ws with SE on lol)etc

Still do your thang if it makes you happy. I'm only pointing out that you're not maximizing your total dmg potential. (which isn't everyone's goal)

[Kagato]

you're still completely gimping your total dmg potential this way. /sam and ws spam. ride SE (especially with a 1 hit ws, this makes SE very manageable even for a mediocre whm. It really annoys a whm to see you go from full to half hp when you use a 4 hit ws with SE on lol)etc

Still do your thang if it makes you happy. I'm only pointing out that you're not maximizing your total dmg potential. (which isn't everyone's goal)

Souleater Torcleaver. Hyez.

[Rezeak]

I always open Souleater with a Torcleaver on any job just for the enmity reduction i don't cancel until i have to or a mob cancels it for me (by killing me ><)

[Jar]

you're still completely gimping your total dmg potential this way. /sam and ws spam. ride SE (especially with a 1 hit ws, this makes SE very manageable even for a mediocre whm. It really annoys a whm to see you go from full to half hp when you use a 4 hit ws with SE on lol)etc

Still do your thang if it makes you happy. I'm only pointing out that you're not maximizing your total dmg potential. (which isn't everyone's goal)


i do it to things to spam slow so the hasso bonus isnt that huge like say "Uladashi" the sandworm motherfooker..

also on things that torcleaver only does like 1K making that do 5K is a big deal

[RaenRyong]

i do it to things to spam slow so the hasso bonus isnt that huge like say "Uladashi" the sandworm motherfooker..

Slow is easily curable...


also on things that torcleaver only does like 1K making that do 5K is a big deal

Critical hits do NOT 5x your damage unless your pdif is incredibly low (eat proper food, gear better).

[Rezeak]

As WHM i don't erase slow on mobs that spam the AoE Slow that wipes haste i just focus on healing the DDs and this is how most of the WHM function in my linkshell since it's like 2-3 WHM to 10-15 DDs just a waste of time to erase for it to be put back on.

The way i play /SAM and the way i play /THF usally means it will do 4 X more WS DMG on average for a single WS because like i explained before different atmas setups and holding Tp for sneak attack. overall tho the WS DMG on /THF is around double on the tougher mobs because as /SAM i gets more WS off.

Again this is all for tougher mobs.

As for gear and food Carabonara or Yellow curry buns AF+2 and twilight all the top stuff.

Either way this is all based of parses and such and like i try to point out it's all sititational and in some sititations in the setup party/linkshell/mob /THF beat /SAM occsonally.

Also another playstyle i occsonally use if DRK/THF zombie which is RR Sea daughter and Apoc idea behide this is that i go all out until i die (some mobs spam AoE staying on the mob is suicide) either way in this cases i'm there Only for trigger (otherwise i'd play COR SCH or SMN to safly DMG) so once we get trigger i just pop off SA Torcleavers every min or so and dieing has no effect on WS DMG cause i just reraise and get tp and SA torcleaver agian.

In that case my /THF always would beat my /SAM agian it's rare i play like that but there are a few mobs were death happens alot.

I also want to point out /SAM is better that /THF overall since the above is very one sided saying were /THF is better but most of the time /SAM is the best sub for DRK hands down.

[Gradd]

Sounds like your another shit lazy whm to me.

I play WHM and I am pretty damn pro at it, a whm that wont erase a Melee can die in a fire. Name one mob that makes it impossible for you to keep a haste cycle up because they cast slowga, and don't say sandworms.

[Jar]

Slow is easily curable...



Critical hits do NOT 5x your damage unless your pdif is incredibly low (eat proper food, gear better).

less bitch more realistic bro

/thf atma is TOTALLY diff than /sam

therefor 5x the damage with weaponskills

and yeah if i was getting erase i would come /sam but i wasnt so i didnt seE?

and @gradd x1 whm x6 DD we killed it in like 1 min tops?

[RaenRyong]

less bitch more realistic bro

/thf atma is TOTALLY diff than /sam

therefor 5x the damage with weaponskills

Okay, so you do 2.5x~ damage with a WS every 1 minute.

/sam has 1-2 less xhit and 10% more Haste than you. More accuracy if necessary. Meditate. Sekkanoki. How exactly is 2.5x~ damage with a WS per minute going to produce 5x as much WS damage overall?

/thf is only good if you're in some incredibly silly scenario (eg WS onry) where you may as well not be there at all.


and yeah if i was getting erase i would come /sam but i wasnt so i didnt seE?

and @gradd x1 whm x6 DD we killed it in like 1 min tops?

Silly scenario. PS: /whm will outdo /thf if you're not getting erased. Can erase and haste yourself, net of ~+25% Haste!

Killing it in like 1 min tops means your /thf has contributed a whole one Sneak Attack. You're telling me Sekkanoki 2x WS => Meditate and Hasso/lower xhit isn't going to outdo that?

[Dart]

Sounds like your another shit lazy whm to me.

I play WHM and I am pretty damn pro at it, a whm that wont erase a Melee can die in a fire. Name one mob that makes it impossible for you to keep a haste cycle up because they cast slowga, and don't say sandworms.

since i dual box whm I get to say it, sandworms~

[Rezeak]

Sounds like your another shit lazy whm to me.

I play WHM and I am pretty damn pro at it, a whm that wont erase a Melee can die in a fire. Name one mob that makes it impossible for you to keep a haste cycle up because they cast slowga, and don't say sandworms.

Fair does have a cookie

but honestly lazy maybe shit nahh...

U can go over and over it w/e it's better for me to focus on keeping people alive i honestly rather that than DDs bitch about some more damage.

if i have accession up then yea party will get erased np but outside that i'm focusing on tank and keeping pple alive and i'm considered a good WHM too in my linkshell because i do whats needed and that keep pple alive.

Also any mob that casts a AoE slow that overwrites haste makes impossible to keep a haste cycle up cause if haste drops for any reason it's not keeping haste up :P

It definitely not 5x DMG unless ya counting /SAM lowest vs /THF highest at times i've parse it to be 4 x higher in a few cases.

Either way i think this is the last i'll post on /THF cause it's getting pointless were talking about WHMs hasting slowaga ect ect which is what i ment by situational so unless some other topic brings it up i'll leave it there either way it works for me and my linkshell really well and it does outperform /SAM occasionally for me.

[Jar]

Okay, so you do 2.5x~ damage with a WS every 1 minute.

/sam has 1-2 less xhit and 10% more Haste than you. More accuracy if necessary. Meditate. Sekkanoki. How exactly is 2.5x~ damage with a WS per minute going to produce 5x as much WS damage overall?

/thf is only good if you're in some incredibly silly scenario (eg WS onry) where you may as well not be there at all.



Silly scenario. PS: /whm will outdo /thf if you're not getting erased. Can erase and haste yourself, net of ~+25% Haste!

Killing it in like 1 min tops means your /thf has contributed a whole one Sneak Attack. You're telling me Sekkanoki 2x WS => Meditate and Hasso/lower xhit isn't going to outdo that?

do the xhit math with Caladbolg..

also it is alot more than 2.5x i was doing torcleaver for 800~1700 /sam and 4.5~8K on /thf

meditate is a very SMALL boost to WS freq

you are also slowed like a stated in my post so the 10% haste isnt that big. trust me i did like 30 of the sandworm for my friends h2h and i did about 10/sam before i switched to /thf

[RaenRyong]

do the xhit math with Caladbolg..

also it is alot more than 2.5x i was doing torcleaver for 800~1700 /sam and 4.5~8K on /thf

meditate is a very SMALL boost to WS freq

you are also slowed like a stated in my post so the 10% haste isnt that big. trust me i did like 30 of the sandworm for my friends h2h and i did about 10/sam before i switched to /thf

I don't believe your WS figures. Either your pdif was HORRENDOUS or you're making it up/got lucky Trip Procs on your /thf and not on your /sam.

Meditate is small, but it's still 3-5% except in huge haste situations. If you're permaslowed, it's more.

You should've changed to /whm! 25%+ more Haste!

[Rezeak]

If you can get 1700 at most on /SAM u can't get 8k on /THF lol (it's to do with level dif more that pdif here)

When i can get 8k /THF(300%tp) /SAM i can get near an avg of 2k+ with the odd 3k ws (triple attack)

But when i'm on the low end it's with like 1.2kish avg /SAM i'm looking at 4k min-6k max on /THF so 4.5kish avg

I know i said i'd not post about /THF but if ya gonna agrue for /THF be honest with ur numbers lol

[Jar]

If you can get 1700 at most on /SAM u can't get 8k on /THF lol (it's to do with level dif more that pdif here)

When i can get 8k /THF(300%tp) /SAM i can get near an avg of 2k+ with the odd 3k ws (triple attack)

But when i'm on the low end it's with like 1.2kish avg /SAM i'm looking at 4k min-6k max on /THF so 4.5kish avg

I know i said i'd not post about /THF but if ya gonna agrue for /THF be honest with ur numbers lol

i puyt low high from a parse so i did get 8K in there

[Dart]

well this turned into a monkey shit fight at the zoo.

[vedder]

*starts flinging poo!*

[Urteil]

It sort of makes me sad that VIT really does nothing for Torcleaver. . .

JUST STACKAN' THE STR AND ATTK LIKE A CHAMP AND DEM FTP MODS.

[Geabrielle]

Just to break up the monotony ...

/sch

Come on, let er rip! I've had fun with this subjob because #1 I can #2 I have light-hearted groupmates #3 ... Because I can!

Cheers! :)

P.S. #4 - There's enough epeen DRKs around to sink an island and it's fun to be outcast!

[Dart]

i could sub pld and use a staff if i wanted too as well. Doesn't mean that I'm going to.

[Geabrielle]

Cheers to you then, mate.
/pld isn't really that useful unless you want like access to swift blade for stagger, which is just pointless. Ask a pld friend, its easier!

The point of that statement was simply this: There's a world of subjobs out there to experiment with to fit the style of any type of drk, be it zomg DRK SMASH or the more playful of us who are surrounded by said types. That being said, it's a viable and different option that's found its use in my personal style and before the 'go play BLM' bat comes out, I'll just say that I do and my epeen there is massive enough to cover the part of my DRK ego that never existed.