[Gratitude] PS2 Limitations

[Dihlyte]

I just want to say I am grateful for the PS2 limitations restricting FFXI.

I am so glad Square-Enix is not able to make massive and constant changes to FFXI.

FFXI is a clean proper RPG with a lot of currencies and key items, that make the game unique and interesting, and the UI is clean and neat.

The more I see them changing their more modern games in games that are horribly over produced, and deleted all the things that make a Role-playing game, a role playing game.





For example, FFXIV is a huge mess.

Square-Enix wastes so much time constantly adjusting "potencies" and "reworking" jobs, doing things like 'stat squishes" and all kinds of "features" to the UI, minions, and all sorts of "aspects" that make that game such an absolute horrible mess.

FFXI has a clean UI with only the absolutely needed info on the screen, the jobs are designed properly, and work right in the way they perform in fights.

I love how there are so many key items to collect, instead of useless "minions" to fill the screen with a sloppy mess of complete randomness.

FFXI zone's and lockstyle make sense within its world. We don't have an excessive amount of "outfits" from Western Cowboy, to robots, Gundam, Clowns. The gear and equipment make sense within the world, and create a consistent and logical believable world.

We have battle fields and create a "Final Fantasy" atmosphere, instead of WWE, Gundam, Fortnite, WoW mashup-mess of nonsense.


So I just want to say I am glad Square-Enix is literally restricted from creating too much new content to ruin this game like they have FFXIV, FFVII-Remake.

So thank you Square-Enix from being unable to ruin this game, and Sony for creating a system that limits SE from making bad choices.

I also absolutely love that FFXI has a "damage cap" because its far more fun to try to reach that damage cap, than having my numbers constantly changing and looking horrible on the screen with its "flying text" because I absolutely love "Pop-up" damage numbers. I also love how FFXI is sensible in their numbers as well, and remain a constant within its systems.

So just thank you for not being able to ruin this game, and make it worse and worse the longer its online.

[Dragoy]

Can not disagree on any of the points mentioned, really, but it would be nice to not have /some/ of those restrictions fer sure.

Things like network speed, draw distance (pretty sure they could change that if they felt like it), and PC/NPC display limitations (like in Besieged, probably also something they could change) just to mention a few that come to mind right now.

Just making the things we already have a bit better-like, you know... not too much changing of things. :]

[Alhanelem]

I know people are going to scream "CONTRARIAN!" at me for this, but I could not disagree more with the OP. However, I fully endorse the wishes of the poster above. Dial-up internet basically doesn't even exist anymore in the US or Japan, and yet we're stuck with a network system that was designed with dial-up in mind as a baseline.

Now, don't get me wrong, How things actually played out is as much a part of FFXI's identity as anything, and it's fine that it resulted in them being conservative with making changes to the game. But I think far too often, "PS2 limitations" was more of an excuse than anything else, when they could have made much better justification for their plans than that. I consider it a good thing that it led to them considering updates very, very carefully. But this also meant that things that really needed to happen ended up taking much, much longer than they should have.

But the whole "ps2 limitations" thing essentially ended up meaning they couldn't do anything that would help attract more players to the game and instead leave us with the game dying a very very slow death. There are many ways they could have improved the game that wouldn't have changed its flavor or essence, which they could have done if they had acted sooner in the game's life instead of waiting for the PS2 to roll over in its grave before discontinuing it.

There are also some things which have little to do with PS2 limitations that they haven't acted on either. For instance, Monstrosity. They had grand plans for it, with plans for every monster family to be represented, special content just for the mode, etc. etc. But when the lead designer of the content left Square Enix, instead of assigning someone to finish it, they just left it to rot instead. So now we have this menu listing all the monster families and only a small handful of them are selectable. The rest will probably remain grayed out for the rest of FFXI's existence. (Yes, I had a ton of fun with Monstrosity so yes, I'm salty about this).

Then there's the test server, and the new UI that was never completed after the guy who worked on that ALSO left SE. There's no reason they couldn't simply have turned off the test server and turn it on when they're working on new content. It really could have avoided the early issues with sortie if the playerbase was involved in its testing.

And don't get me started on Ballista. While there's a small group out there that still gets some fun out of playing with it, their decision to completely ignore and abandon it has left it more broken than it needed to be, since there are no modifiers, adjustments, or even new level cap options for lv76~99 or item levels, job points, or the extra subjob levels granted by master levels. I myself used to use the Player Event Support system to run Ballista events every once in a while. But even the people I know who enjoyed it the most aren't interested largely because SE hasn't done even the most basic things about this.

None of this content deserved to be abandoned, whether it was because of PS2 limitations or something else. And as far as making other changes, there are still a lot of outstanding balance issues that could be improved, especially with jobs like BST and SMN and a few other underutilized jobs. But I have doubts anything will happen on that front.



FFXI has a clean UI with only the absolutely needed info on the screen, the jobs are designed properly, and work right in the way they perform in fights.I'm sorry but, I simply can't ignore this specific comment. The only sense in which FFXI"s UI could be considered "clean" is that it doesn't take up much space on the screen if you're using a high resolution monitor and have amazing enough vision to be able to read it without upscaling it. The UI on the whole is my least favorite part of the game. I love it inspite of the UI, not because of it. I was really looking forward to the New UI (as an option mind you, I realize that different people feel differently about the UI), and was very disappointed when it stalled out. I myself have not the greatest vision, and many elements of the UI are just too small. It would not be that big of a problem if we could simply move UI elements around on the screen, so I could, for example, move the target window closer to the middle of the screen so I can see it easily without turning my head towards the corner of my screen. This seems like just a basic feature in MMOs today, being able to re-arrange or adjust UI elements, and FFXI's UI is 100% rigid and more or less can't be changed unless you're willing to break the TOS just to make things easier to read.

There are numerous job balance issues that remain (although most were trending in the right direction up to the point we seemed to stop getting balance updates). And sure, I guess the jobs "work right," but that doesn't mean that everything is perfect and there are no issues.


I still have a passion for this game and enjoy the time I spend in the world of Vana'diel greatly. But it frustrates me that "ps2 limitations" has kept us from nice improvements the game legitimately needed. Inventory space anyone? Was it really a good thing it took us close to 20 years to get more space for gear?

[Jordache]

Yes! Also Monstrosity

[Jordache]

Can not disagree on any of the points mentioned, really, but it would be nice to not have /some/ of those restrictions fer sure.

Things like network speed, draw distance (pretty sure they could change that if they felt like it), and PC/NPC display limitations (like in Besieged, probably also something they could change) just to mention a few that come to mind right now.

Just making the things we already have a bit better-like, you know... not too much changing of things. :]

See that's the problem: you start by making things better but it always inevitably turns to an amorphous cancerous blob.

[Jordache]

FUNNY you should mention it: The deal with monstrosity is that is was originally envisioned that SE employee would be playing as the monster in some type of popped arena to alleviate teh pressure of the 24 spawn NMs, this was extremely early in the life cycle, but monstrosity didn't arrive until infinitely later.

Monstrosity is still hilarious and a blast but it either needs to be worked into pankration and or have WAY better player sided rewards to liven it up a bit - but it really is its own reward, like sinister reign meta.

[Alhanelem]

See that's the problem: you start by making things better but it always inevitably turns to an amorphous cancerous blob.
Not as long as you take a measured approach and carefully analyze the implications of what you're doing, to avoid "feature creep." Mostly the game only needs QOL improvements to existing things, more than more features.

[Alhanelem]

FUNNY you should mention it: The deal with monstrosity is that is was originally envisioned that SE employee would be playing as the monster in some type of popped arena to alleviate teh pressure of the 24 spawn NMs, this was extremely early in the life cycle, but monstrosity didn't arrive until infinitely later.

Monstrosity is still hilarious and a blast but it either needs to be worked into pankration and or have WAY better player sided rewards to liven it up a bit - but it really is its own reward, like sinister reign meta.
Give something for people to grind, and they will grind it. People who simply enjoyed grinding out job levels etc had a field day with Monstrosity. It's only a pity that the "pvp" side of it got no love. There exist item rewards but nothing anyone found remotely interesting. I tried to find a group of people to challenge me as a kaiser behemoth and simply could not persuade anyone to take on that challenge.

[Stompa]

I completely agree with the OP, in the sense that I would hate to see FFXI get the 2024 AAA shiny-but-hollow makeover.

However, PS2 Limitations means PS2 DevKit Limitations, and PS2 DevKits are basically obsolete, and the number of engineers capable of working with PS2 DevKits shrinks every month that goes by.

It was possible, in say 2007 two-thousand-seven, for SE to say ; "Hey, this is a successful game, and it is a Long-Term game, it takes like seven 7 years to build a single Mythic, even if you work on it every night after getting back from your day-job. Obviously any game that requires seven 7 years to build a single weapon, is a game that requires Long-Term planning for the game's future. And we realise that PS2 are not the future, so we need to migrate from PS2 DevKits now in 2007 two-thousand-seven, while it is still relatively easy to do."

Here's what they could have done, which would protect the things the OP spoke about, and also expanded the game, and protected it for future generations.

> Around 2007 two-thousand-seven, start migrating from PS2 DevKits to a more sustainable system.
> Keep the level at 75 seventy-five.
> Add new areas, jobs, gear, NMs, events etc.
> Create an Offline Solo Version of FFXI, so that if FFXI is no longer supported by SE, fans can play the Offline Version.
> Promote FFXI on the SE Youtube channel. Use Gameplay videos of actual players battling actual mobs, instead of just using Mission Cutscene clips.
> Promote FFXI to new players on Social Media.
> Sell the Offline Version as a new stand-alone Release, with fancy box and big Ad Campaign.

We didn't get any of that, we got a Pub-Mirror instead.
:(

[Alhanelem]

not sure what its likelyhood of happening is, but I recall seeing something about a proposed law in the EU that would make it illegal to terminate a live service game, companies would either have to transfer ownership to someone willing to manage it or release the server so they can be operated by members of the public, or modify it to no longer be live service dependent.

[CrAZYVIC]

For me, there’s nothing better than variety and having been able to discover other amazing games while enjoying FFXI at the same time.

From Zelda 64 and Final Fantasy on the PS1, to Phantasy Star Online—the game that catapulted online gaming to stardom—and then moving on to Phantasy Star Universe before starting FFXI.

Being able to enjoy WoW-Vanilla with all its wonderful expansions while still doing events with my End-Game LS in FFXI was a beautiful experience. At the same time, I got to try other fantastic games like TERA Online and AION, before diving into Dark Souls, Monster Hunter, and other gems like FFXIV.

To this day, I play FFXI intermittently and still appreciate it, but I’m also happy that I got to experience so many wonderful online games simultaneously and didn’t limit myself to just one.

I believe it was a monumental mistake on Square Enix’s part during the WoTG expansion to not transition the code to Direct-X and let the game stagnate with obsolete PS2 code. If they had done that, we would have double or triple the "DLCs" like "Escha" right now. We’d have Dynamis Divergence Dreamlands, Xarcabard, Beaucedine, even Limbus, Einherjar, Nyzul, Salvage, and other content on the level of Divergence.

For me, it’s unacceptable to applaud and defend the mediocrity of a dev team that had at least 15 years to save FFXI but chose to let it die instead.

[Alhanelem]

For me, there’s nothing better than variety and having been able to discover other amazing games while enjoying FFXI at the same time.

From Zelda 64 and Final Fantasy on the PS1, to Phantasy Star Online—the game that catapulted online gaming to stardom—and then moving on to Phantasy Star Universe before starting FFXI.

Being able to enjoy WoW-Vanilla with all its wonderful expansions while still doing events with my End-Game LS in FFXI was a beautiful experience. At the same time, I got to try other fantastic games like TERA Online and AION, before diving into Dark Souls, Monster Hunter, and other gems like FFXIV.

To this day, I play FFXI intermittently and still appreciate it, but I’m also happy that I got to experience so many wonderful online games simultaneously and didn’t limit myself to just one.

I believe it was a monumental mistake on Square Enix’s part during the WoTG expansion to not transition the code to Direct-X and let the game stagnate with obsolete PS2 code. If they had done that, we would have double or triple the "DLCs" like "Escha" right now. We’d have Dynamis Divergence Dreamlands, Xarcabard, Beaucedine, even Limbus, Einherjar, Nyzul, Salvage, and other content on the level of Divergence.

For me, it’s unacceptable to applaud and defend the mediocrity of a dev team that had at least 15 years to save FFXI but chose to let it die instead.
I respect the spirit it comes from, where you sometimes see games that get too radically transformed and move away from what made you fall in love with it. However, it's pretty apparent today that the game might be in a better state today if various key improvements weren't delayed decades by the ps2 limitations excuse. Eventually dropping PS2 support basically serves as an admission that they should have begun the transition long ago.

[Dihlyte]

and other gems like FFXIV.

For me, it’s unacceptable to applaud and defend the mediocrity of a dev team that had at least 15 years to save FFXI but chose to let it die instead.

You see, I enjoy RPG’s instead of fashion games.

I didn’t applaud the dev team here. I applauded Sony, since it prevented SE from turning FFXI into games like FFXIV, FF16, and FFVII-Remake.

I like creating powerful weapons, discovering secrets, having useful key items, and meaningful progression.

You say FFXI is dead, and FFXIV is a gem.

I say FFXI is protected, and FFXIV is a waste of time fashion game.

But that’s what feedback is.

You enjoy simple, fashion games, and that’s fine.

I enjoy meaningful, challenging, engaging games. To me, that’s FFXI.

It is not FFXIV, and the other games being released by SE in recent years.

[Alhanelem]

I didn’t applaud the dev team here. I applauded Sony, since it prevented SE from turning FFXI into games like FFXIV, FF16, and FFVII-Remake.That was never going to happen.

And even though looks are part of the game, none of these games are merely "fashion games." Not everyone cares about the look of their character, and they still play these games.

Sony played no role in this, and do not deserve applause.

Aside from this, there was little chance that such a big change in direction would have occured simply becuase of the platform the game was on.

Also, even FFXI has a substantial number of vanity items that have no gameplay function and only serve to change the look of your character. Even with "PS2 limitations," they added options like lockstyle that make it easier to create the look you want independent of gear stats (even though it's fair to argue more people use this by virtue of it preventing character blinking than anything else)

You enjoy simple, fashion games, and that’s fine. Where's the thumbs down button?

Just because a game has deep character customization doesn't mean it's "simple," or has to be. There is literally no connection between character creation options and gameplay- they are not mutually exclusive. THere are many amazing games out there that have great character customization and also great gameplay. You don't like FFXIV (or any other game for that matter)? That's fine. The only reason I have an issue with your post is the blanket assertions and over-generalizations you keep making. I like challenging games too. The reality is, there is challenge in these games you call "fashion games," if you take the time to look. Your dismissal of games because they have a lot of customization for your character is ridiculous at best. It's going to lead to you ignoring some great challenging games in the future just because they have "fashion."




I say FFXI is protected, and FFXIV is a waste of time fashion game.You're wrong on both counts. FFXI is in some danger of being lost to time because the game was prevented from adapting. And FFXIV is far more than just a "fashion game." It certainly isn't the reason I play it, anyway. The association you create between depth of character customization and lack depth in gameplay is entirely false and imagined. Now, there are actual games that are entirely about fashion (especially on mobile) that don't have any other gameplay elements at all, and I actually do think those are dumb. But none of the games you mentioned are like that.

Frankly I really hope that this post is really just some silly hot take where you take an unpopular opinion just to create controversy (aka, troll bait.) Limitations (in general) can be a good thing because they can force developers to be creative to solve problems, which leads to better design and programming practices and means future games can be even better as a result. But that's not the case here, and it didn't need to be that way. FFXIV dropped the PS4 pretty quickly, because it was getting in the way of a lot more than just pretty graphics- it was actually getting in the way of game functionality.

Within I want to say 5 years of FFXI"s release, the vast majority of console players had already moved on to the next generation of consoles, and the people who were still playing FFXI on PS2, it was most likely the only thing they were doing with their PS2s by that point. The lack of PS3 compatibility was certainly a factor in why some people left FFXI and never came back.

[Catmato]

FFXIV dropped the PS4 pretty quickly, because it was getting in the way of a lot more than just pretty graphics- it was actually getting in the way of game functionality.
When did this happen?

The lack of PS3 compatibility was certainly a factor in why some people left FFXI and never came back.

FFXI worked on PS3.

[Alhanelem]

When did this happen?PS4 support was dropped with Stormblood's release. Among the many reasons for doing so was that the console didn't have enough memory to show all UI elements at the same time, so when using certain features, like the Focus Target display, the game would have to hide other UI elements like the xp bar or other things in order to display it due to lack of memory. They couldn't expand or add new features to the UI because they wouldn't be able to do it on the PS4.



FFXI worked on PS3. News to me, I thought ps3 didn't have backwards compatibility because of that fancypants processor they made for it that nothing else ever used

[Catmato]

PS4 support was dropped with Stormblood's release. Among the many reasons for doing so was that the console didn't have enough memory to show all UI elements at the same time, so when using certain features, like the Focus Target display, the game would have to hide other UI elements like the xp bar or other things in order to display it due to lack of memory. They couldn't expand or add new features to the UI because they wouldn't be able to do it on the PS4.

You can literally buy Dawntrail for ps4 right now. https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP0082-PPSA02954_00-C0EX05SET0000000

[Alhanelem]

MB it was ps3 not ps4. Getting my generations mixed up.

ARR originally launched with PS3 support, that's what was dropped. PS4 support probably won't be dropped, at least not in the near future. But from DT forward, it won't have the higher res textures.

[Fahzewn]

News to me, I thought ps3 didn't have backwards compatibility because of that fancypants processor they made for it that nothing else ever used

The original launches of the PS3 allowed PS2 disc games to play on it (special chip installed basically) and that included FFXI. When the PS3 was trimmed down, part of that was removing the chip that allowed PS2 discs to play. FFXI couldn't be played on those.

FFXI though, as you said, never truly had PS3 support. It just "happened" to work on it.

[radar]

Money was set aside by Square Enix to literally remake ff11 for ps3, but they used the money to make ff14 instead. ff14 was always supposed to be for ff11 players to move to and they fully intended to close 11, but they messed it up and made something most ff11 players didn't like.

Seeing what they made I'm really glad they didn't remake ff11 for ps3, because they obviously forgot why people liked the game and because of that decision ff11 still exists in a pure form today.

https://massivelyop.com/2021/09/23/final-fantasy-xiv-is-why-final-fantasy-xi-didnt-get-a-playstation-3-port/

[Dihlyte]

they messed it up and made something most ff11 players didn't like.


It’s funny that they failed with FFXIV 1.0, and FFXIV 2.0 to create a game FFXI players would like. Literally had two chances, and failed both times…

I played FFXIV for 9 years, but that was because I loved FFXIV 1.23b so much.

Once they finally gutted FFXIV too much around 5.4 I finally quit XIV to play FFXI.

I think if most people who tried FFXIV and didn’t like it, tried FFXI, then FFXI would be the more popular MMO.

The problem is SE doesn’t advertise FFXI at all, so most people are under the impression FFXI was shut down years ago.

I can’t tell you how many times people say “I thought FFXI was shutdown” when I’m trying to tell them how great of a game it is.

[Alhanelem]

and FFXIV 2.0 to create a game FFXI players would like. Literally had two chances, and failed both times…Uh, sorry, but 2.0 didn't "fail." lol

Subjective whether or not any particular individual likes it going forward from there, and that's fine, but you having a problem with it doesn't make it a failiure. Even I really only play through the story and engage in side activities like pvp and soloing deep dungeon. So I'm not in love the way I used to be but I still enjoy certain aspects.




I think if most people who tried FFXIV and didn’t like it, tried FFXI, then FFXI would be the more popular MMO. It wouldn't, unless maybe you only ask 40+ year olds who remember and prefer older games to anything being made today. For everyone else, that's not going to happen. Quit living in a (final) fantasy. I've tried to convince more than a few people to play, they take one look at it and are like "nope". Unless you're a very early millenial or older, or FFXI is like, the first video game you ever try, that's not likely to happen.

[Zenion]

It wouldn't, unless maybe you only ask 40+ year olds who remember and prefer older games to anything being made today. For everyone else, that's not going to happen. Quit living in a (final) fantasy. I've tried to convince more than a few people to play, they take one look at it and are like "nope". Unless you're a very early millenial or older, or FFXI is like, the first video game you ever try, that's not likely to happen.

The problem is that when you invite someone to play, they have to start at the very beginning, and the very beginning of FFXI is the absolute worst part. Go out, punch some bees, try to figure out the arcane complexities of an interface that doesn't explain itself to you, just go and grind for levels and, if you chose a mage job, realize that you only get one spell for free (once you know how to use your starter scroll!) and have to earn or buy the other ones with the like 13 gil you get when you manage to survive fighting a beastman that you probably didn't even want to fight in the first place because they're what passes for a tutorial on aggressive monsters...

The barrier for entry is really high, and people don't usually love trudging through "just wait, it gets good in another hundred hours."

You know what would probably make the game, like, way more popular? A prologue sequence where you get to actually try out level 75 abilities and gear for a brief mission before assuming the role of your actual character. Show them what the game feels like when it's actually good, demonstrate skillchains, magic bursts, and gear swapping, and still give them something to look forward to because if that was 75, what's 99 going to look like.

[Alhanelem]

The problem is that when you invite someone to play, they have to start at the very beginning, and the very beginning of FFXI is the absolute worst part.New user onboarding is where you make your first impressions and I'm certainly in agreement there that it's one of the game's weak points. The game basically just drops you in the world after a short cutscene and it's just like "we're not going to tell you anything, good luck."

Even FFXIV had this problem, albeit to a lesser degree. The game offers plenty of guidance, just the early story moves real slow and some people lose patience before they get to the "good part."

[Catmato]

How long has it been since either of you started a new character AND actually paid attention to what the game tells you? Turning in the adventurer coupon will direct you to the tutorial NPC at the city gate, who'll give you the basics of combat, crafting, skillchains, and eventually unlock RoE. It's FAR from what you'd get in any modern MMO, but it's significantly more guidance than we got when we started.

[Dihlyte]

How long has it been since either of you started a new character AND actually paid attention to what the game tells you? Turning in the adventurer coupon will direct you to the tutorial NPC at the city gate, who'll give you the basics of combat, crafting, skillchains, and eventually unlock RoE. It's FAR from what you'd get in any modern MMO, but it's significantly more guidance than we got when we started.

I don’t believe the question was directed at me, but I started another character just 2 months ago, and I feel FFXI has a pretty good balance in guidance.

The only thing I would change, is adding another section to RoE after “Beginner” and “Intermediate” to direct people to learn about more content.

I know there is the “content” section of RoE, but I feel more people are likely to do the other two sections, and become lost.

So many posts on Reddit of people saying they did Ambu, skirmish, and WKR, and then no longer know what to do, on top of seeing people “stop” at this point in-game as well.

I think one more section after intermediate could help solve this.

[Zenion]

Well, okay, so there's an in-game manual. That helps with understanding the concepts, but it doesn't help with retention; probably the opposite actually, skillchains are a lot simpler in execution than they are in theory, but if all you get is a long dry explanation you're never going to know that, and it's probably like twenty levels before you first have a reasonable capacity to even try to do one, if you're in a party with somebody who knows the skillchain chart.

"More than what we had" isn't a shining endorsement. When I started, I had gained three levels before I even learned I had starting equipment, because you didn't start with it equipped and there was no indication that you should check your inventory for that stuff. The last person I tried talking into playing quit in an hour because just figuring out the interface was too difficult. Don't praise an experience that's like walking barefoot on hot coals just because they removed the broken glass.

Also bear in mind that we're not competing with FFXI 22 years ago. We're competing with modern MMOs. Most players are only going to be on one, maybe two at a time; if somebody decides to check out FFXI and the first two hours are boring and confusing, but then they try World of Warcraft and they're having fun in those first two hours, World of Warcraft is the one that's getting monthly subscriptions.

If FFXI had a strong base of new players who would interact with each other and create a sense of community, that might be enough to keep people playing. That's what we had, and it seems to have worked, after all. But it doesn't. I don't think anybody new joins FFXI without one of the old guard players saying "check this out, no I swear it's great." That's not remotely the same, that's just joining to hang out with one person, it doesn't create a compelling reason to stick with FFXI. Almost the opposite, since they won't be playing the game, they'll be getting rushed through it - "go here, do this, talk to this guy, okay let's go to Qufim, sit still while I get you to the level cap" - to get them to where they can actually play with that friend. They'll reach level 99 never having really experiencing the game, it'll just be this weird almost obligation to their friend.

I wonder what would happen if Square-Enix did a sudden big advertising push to pull in a fresh player base, and sent all the new players to a new server with no established characters; would they be more inclined to stay, with that feeling of all struggling together? Would they build the kind of community that kept us all here and playing? Or would they just get bored and all quit?

[Alhanelem]

How long has it been since either of you started a new character AND actually paid attention to what the game tells you? Turning in the adventurer coupon will direct you to the tutorial NPC at the city gate, who'll give you the basics of combat, crafting, skillchains, and eventually unlock RoE.This sounds easy to us because we know the game. But the reality is, without reading a guide beforehand, because the game does not have giant arrows or big flashing signs directing you to even the first few NPCs means that some people WILL get lost/confused before even doing that adventurer coupon turn-in (aside from the fact that even at the beginning of the game, the 50 gil you get from that thing isn't even worth the time it takes to turn it in).

See "Guide Dang It" on TVTropes. FFXI is practically what gave rise to that trope. The game is practically impossible without looking up a guide, wiki, or walkthrough for a new player.

No one who has played the game before and made it to max level is qualified to say how good the onboarding experience is for new players. You did it all before and stuck through it. But frankly I would find it hard to believe that none of you struggled at all to figure things out *the first time*. Again, it sounds easy enough / reasonable enough to you because you already know how it works, so the in-game advice makes sense, plus you already know where the relevant NPCs are, how to trade, etc. New players don't have this information. To a limited extent, the manual that came with the game (which is also available within playonline) did help with this, but let's be honest:

People don't read manuals anymore. Games don't come with them anymore explicitly because of that.

[Dihlyte]

I wonder what would happen if Square-Enix did a sudden big advertising push to pull in a fresh player base, and sent all the new players to a new server with no established characters; would they be more inclined to stay, with that feeling of all struggling together? Would they build the kind of community that kept us all here and playing? Or would they just get bored and all quit?

I always wondered what would happen if SE did this.

I don’t see why they don’t add about 3 or so brand new servers, and prevent transfers to those servers for a few years.

It would be a cheap, and easy way to bring in a wave of new players.

The problem is SE doesn’t seem to like making money, or being creative, or listening to their fanbase.

It’s almost as if they are purposefully doing the opposite of what makes sense.

[Dihlyte]

It’s almost as if they are purposefully doing the opposite of what makes sense.

For Square-Enix:

I will explain this.




-FFVII-Remake

Final Fantasy fans asked for FFVII-Remake.
You gave us a completely different game with FFVII characters.

FFVII-Remake, if it was still the original game, just with updated graphics, it would be printing money. Instead, they decided to completely change everything, including the story. Why?






-FFXIV

FFXIV failed because many reasons, but adding Final Fantasy jobs, was a step in the right direction. FFXIV:ARR brought in so many players excited to see PLD, WAR, MNK, WHM in the trailers, and then when they played it, found out it was a theme park game, and not a RPG, so they quit. Now it’s WW, Fortnite, Gundam, and anything but Final Fantasy, just like 1.0, effectively taking a step right back to the original that failed so hard.





-Final Fantasy 16

FF16, is not even a RPG, or anything that represents Final Fantasy, except in visual concepts. Gameplay, characters, nothing in that game says Final Fantasy except the visuals. Which is what a movie, The Spirits Within, should have been.






It is so confusing to me why Square-Enix makes these decisions.

“We are listening to feedback” they say this each new game, but do they purposefully “forget” all the feedback from previous games, or do they literally go in “fresh” and forget that the previous games, and fans exist?

Makes no sense to me.

The best way to grow a fanbase is to please your existing fans, and they will help spread the word of good games.

Ignore them, and pretend they don’t exist, and you will have to contend against your own fanbase to grow a brand new one.

It’s wild to me that Yoshida was so brazen to call anyone in the FF fanbase “tiresome.” I have no clue how in any way, is insulting your own fans helpful or a good move.

[Dragoy]

The only thing I would change, is adding another section to RoE after “Beginner” and “Intermediate” to direct people to learn about more content.

There is Help Desk / Adventuring Primer, which I believe Zenion was referring to as well, and which does indeed have heaps of directions to content and more... but I'm not sure how many people will even find it there, and it's of course not the same as Records of Eminence objectives.

I forgot it exists myself, until I saw someone on a live stream look up things there that I was talking about in chat (looks like it was initially added in the May 14, 2015 (JST) Version Update already).

[Alhanelem]

I always wondered what would happen if SE did this.

I don’t see why they don’t add about 3 or so brand new servers, and prevent transfers to those servers for a few years.

It would be a cheap, and easy way to bring in a wave of new players.

The problem is SE doesn’t seem to like making money, or being creative, or listening to their fanbase.

It’s almost as if they are purposefully doing the opposite of what makes sense.
You guys are really living in a fantasy lol

an "advertising push" for a 22 year old game with 22 year old graphics with mechanics that, while we know and love them, aren't at all friendly to today's gamers? It would not produce any results.

While you and I and the rest of us love the game, the demand for an MMO as hardcore as FFXI is low. The game needs significant other investment before I would say promoting it is a good idea. And advertising costs more than you clearly seem to think in the first place. What would they advertise, anyway? If they released some big update with a notable new content, I could see doing some promotion for it. But Like I just said, FFXi's issues extend well beyond lack of promotion. If you were a marketing manager at SE, you'd see all the other projects you have, and how promoting literally any of them would likely generate more income than an ad campaign for FFXI.

[Alhanelem]

There is Help Desk / Adventuring Primer, which I believe Zenion was referring to as well, and which does indeed have heaps of directions to content and more... but I'm not sure how many people will even find it there, and it's of course not the same as Records of Eminence objectives.

I forgot it exists myself, until I saw someone on a live stream look up things there that I was talking about in chat (looks like it was initially added in the May 14, 2015 (JST) Version Update already).
People don't read instruction manuals and stuff. And in order for people to read these primers, they have to know about them first. If the game itself linked to them, sure, it would probably work. But the game basically doesn't link to any outside-of-game help. Probably in part because under normal full screen mode, you can't view external links without closing the game.

[Dragoy]

People don't read instruction manuals and stuff. And in order for people to read these primers, they have to know about them first. If the game itself linked to them, sure, it would probably work. But the game basically doesn't link to any outside-of-game help. Probably in part because under normal full screen mode, you can't view external links without closing the game.

The thing I'm referring to is inside-of-game though, under the Help Desk menu item, but yeah, don't think anything in-game actually tells the user about it.

[Dihlyte]

There is Help Desk / Adventuring Primer, which I believe Zenion was referring to as well, and which does indeed have heaps of directions to content and more... but I'm not sure how many people will even find it there, and it's of course not the same as Records of Eminence objectives.

I forgot it exists myself, until I saw someone on a live stream look up things there that I was talking about in chat (looks like it was initially added in the May 14, 2015 (JST) Version Update already).

Yeah I love this little thing.

The problem is I didn’t even know it existed until I already knew, and was clearing this content myself.

It’s great, but no one knows it exists, and the people who do know, already know everything about the content it covers.

[Zenion]

You guys are really living in a fantasy lol

an "advertising push" for a 22 year old game with 22 year old graphics with mechanics that, while we know and love them, aren't at all friendly to today's gamers? It would not produce any results.

While you and I and the rest of us love the game, the demand for an MMO as hardcore as FFXI is low. The game needs significant other investment before I would say promoting it is a good idea. And advertising costs more than you clearly seem to think in the first place. What would they advertise, anyway? If they released some big update with a notable new content, I could see doing some promotion for it. But Like I just said, FFXi's issues extend well beyond lack of promotion. If you were a marketing manager at SE, you'd see all the other projects you have, and how promoting literally any of them would likely generate more income than an ad campaign for FFXI.

Yes. Of course. You're right. Literally anything is too expensive to try to keep this money pit of a game going, time to just shut the servers down and move on to the next Final Fantasy VII spinoff.

Thank you for reminding me that not even FFXI players think FFXI is a good game.

[Alhanelem]

The thing I'm referring to is inside-of-game though, under the Help Desk menu item, but yeah, don't think anything in-game actually tells the user about it.
The help desk menu leaves a lot to be desired. And it's real primary purpose is customer support rather than game tips.

[Alhanelem]

Yes. Of course. You're right. Literally anything is too expensive to try to keep this money pit of a game going, time to just shut the servers down and move on to the next Final Fantasy VII spinoff.

Thank you for reminding me that not even FFXI players think FFXI is a good game.
I never said FFXI was a bad game. But it's a product of a different era, and gamers today are very different from 20+ years ago. An ad campaign for a 20 year old game just really isn't going to have a lot of impact.

Ultimately SE is going to put its money where it thinks it will get the most return. And as much as I wish it weren't so, that isn't nor will it ever likely be FFXI unless and until they decide to remake/remaster it.

[Zenion]

I never said FFXI was a bad game. But it's a product of a different era, and gamers today are very different from 20+ years ago. An ad campaign for a 20 year old game just really isn't going to have a lot of impact.

Ultimately SE is going to put its money where it thinks it will get the most return. And as much as I wish it weren't so, that isn't nor will it ever likely be FFXI unless and until they decide to remake/remaster it.

The thing is, people seem to love games from twenty or more years ago. They even love Final Fantasy games from that long ago for some reason. You seem to think there's just no market left for this game, that only people who are currently playing it will ever want to, but I'm pretty confident that's not the case.

Now, yes, Final Fantasy XI expects a little more focus and a little more strategy than newer MMOs. It's not going to have the broad appeal of FFXIV, with its easy-to-read fights, its flashy graphics, its refusal to miss any opportunity to pander to Final Fantasy nostalgia. If you did a big billboard and ad-roll campaign you'd be throwing away money, for sure.

But that doesn't mean there isn't an untapped audience. The FFXI niche is a very specific one which isn't super oversaturated; it's a little bit into that Dark Souls unforgiving difficulty territory but not quite, it's something where you can plan and strategize which might tap into the strategy games corner of the market, it's an easy pick for gamers running low specs, there are a lot of people this game could appeal to. (Crafting, fishing, mog house decorating, and the general vibe of Vana'diel's environments might even be enough of a draw to catch the sort of cozy/casual players who don't love building in Minecraft but play for the mood.)

Problem is, you say "Final Fantasy XI", people either answer "huh?" or "oh yeah, when did that shut down?" You don't need to sell them the game, you need to remind them that it exists.

Advertising with that goal in mind would be more along the lines of finding gaming content creators who tend to produce technical and skill showcase videos and streams, and approach them with a sponsorship deal, point them at the content in FFXI that needs some level of planning to approach, and set them up with whatever levels and gear are appropriate to it (if any are interested in doing the level-grinding and gear-collecting stuff themselves, even better, that's probably going to turn into extra content and more exposure.) Hype up the player base a week before the videos/streams are set to drop, try to get #FFXI trending - probably not possible even if former players got noisy on social media too, but worth the effort. You get broad exposure for the sort of people who are most likely to want to give the game a try and stick around long enough to make it worthwhile.

Yes, I know, there are already people who do that (without even needing ti be paid to!), there's a bunch of FFXI streamers and a few of them specialize in the high-end battle stuff... but they're stuffed into the FFXI silo, getting an audience of pretty much just people who already play or used to and don't really want to come back. It's nice that there's community engagement but it's not being seen by prospective new customers, so it may as well not be happening as far as marketing is concerned.

But I mean, hey, what do I know. Maybe that's a multi-million dollar plan right there, maybe it really is too expensive. But an investment of zero seems to be yielding a playerbase growth rate of even less.

[Alhanelem]

The thing is, people seem to love games from twenty or more years ago.Yes, sometimes this is true. But it's mostly limited to games in certain categories that have aged especially well and are still approachable by gamers used to the current gen of games today. FFXI is, for all of its good points, not a very approachable game. You kind of have to be in the hardcore gamer category to truly appreciate it today. Back in the day, the virtual world concept was still in its early stages and had a lot of mystique to it. Today, there are tons of such games to choose from. I've asked many, many people in FFXIV about FFXI. Quite a few people think it's dead (in the unplayable sense, not the popularity sense) and even when you let them know it's not, they don't want to play an unpopular game. Others are aware of FFXI, but they're too invested in the game they're playing now to get into another MMO. Still others are curious, but then get put off by how difficult it is to create an account, subscribe, and get started (something SE can and should still fix...) Others are more casual players and think FFXI looks too intimidating.


I've maybe convinced one person they should "eventually" try it- after I did some streaming of me going through nyzul isle solo and comparing it to deep dungeons in FFXIV (they are avid solo runners of it and cleared on many jobs). And they may do it, but its clearly still not a priority. So yes- I actively do promote FFXI when the oppertunity arises, but I'm batting near zero when it comes to getting people to actually try it.


Secondly- Outside of fans of the game, FFXI does not have the "classic" status that would attract more of the general population that gets into retro games like you suggested. I'm also not sure FFXI is really old enough to be retro just yet. Retro mostly and usually means 2D pixel art games.

Ultimately, FFXI is going to be a pretty hard sell to all but the right people for a variety of reasons- even though in many cases, those reasons are the reasons why we posting here love the game.

Before there can be any hope of successful promotion of the game, there really has to be some more investment in the game itself. And at the present time, I'm not convinced that's likely to happen. Now if they promoted the game while they were still making TVR or RoV, it might have had more of an impact. We really need something new that we can leverage for any sort of promotional campaign.


(Not to mention how hard it is to convince people to subscribe to multiple MMOs- SE should really bring back the dual subscription discount, or, dare I suggest it, simply have it be an add-on to the FFXIV subscription for a few extra dollars and BAM, you have a whole another game's playerbase who has easy access to play this game that, in our eyes, IS classic. Considering how much of FFXI is actually in FFXIV, it could be to FFXIV like WoW Classic is to the current WoW. But I guess that would make too much sense.)

[Zenion]

FFXIV is the wrong place to find people to bring over to FFXI; for the most part, anyone there who would enjoy FFXI played it before FFXIV was launched, and either already plays both or moved on to the shiny newer game. Having a discounted subscription option for FFXIV players could bring some back, maybe, but I can't imagine it would be a lot. It probably wouldn't move many FFXI players over to FFXIV, either, that ship sailed decades ago; ultimately there just isn't that much to gain from doing it.

Now, if you know anyone playing Runescape or Everquest, you might find converts there. World of Warcraft, maybe, but if they like the gameplay there they'd like FFXIV more.

But yeah, that does seem to be where we are, doesn't it. There might be more players if there were more investment, but why invest if there aren't many players, and maybe the game would be an easier sell if it were more modernized but why invest in modernizing a game that very few people are playing? This is why there's so much discussion of a remake, and also why we all know deep down it's never happening. Unless someone can figure out how to drop Cloud Strife into the middle of Ru'Lude Gardens, anyway.

[Dragoy]

The help desk menu leaves a lot to be desired. And it's real primary purpose is customer support rather than game tips.

For the most part, yeah, but, in case like me, you forgot about it or didn't even ever bump into it, the Adventuring Primer therein is all about game tips, including things such as where and when to go for limit break quests, where to enter Vagary from and what items are needed for it, and where to get them, or where to get your Adventuring Fellow quest from.

Indeed, it is pretty much like the primer on the website [1], within the game, but a bit different.

1. http://www.playonline.com/ff11eu/contguide/index.html

[Dihlyte]

The thing is, people seem to love games from twenty or more years ago..

I assume this discussion is about FFXI vs FFXIV, and similar game designs.

Modern WoW is a dying game.

FFXIV is modeled after modern WoW.

Classic WoW kept modern WoW alive.

Old School RuneScape is just as popular, if not more so, than FFXIV.

FFXIV:ARR -*only*- was successful because FFXIV 1.0 failed and WoW was failing.

If FFXIV announced it would cease releasing expansions, that game would immediately be shut down.

To believe games like modern WoW and modern FFXIV are beacons of the industry, simply isn’t reflective of the RPG genre.

Baulders Gate 3, Old School RuneScape, and even Classic WoW speak far more accurately than the extremely lucky FFXIV trends.


Far more players have tried and quit FFXIV, than those who play and enjoy FFXIV.

FFVII-Remake, FF16, and Forespoken are dramatically worse failures than Baulders Gate 3, Old School RuneScape, and many other comparisons to shallow easy action games, versus engaging, in-depth RPG’s.

People are craving a worthwhile game. Modern FFXIV, and modern WoW do not deliver.

Unfortunately most people don’t even know FFXI exists, and many of the ones who do, won’t tolerate its dated launcher, and controls.

[Alhanelem]

Now, if you know anyone playing Runescape or Everquest, you might find converts there. World of Warcraft, maybe, but if they like the gameplay there they'd like FFXIV more.You know, I signed up to FFXI while waiting for WoW to come out. At the time I was into the Warcraft RTS series (i.e. warcraft II and III) and I was excited about the prospect of an RPG in the universe. But a friend got me into FFXI and I ended up sticking with that. Even though I did play WoW for a while, it was just a lot more repetitive and it had very little actual story at the time- It wasn't until many years down the road that they started putting any real effort into a storyline. FFXI had more jobs and a lot more variety in its content, these were the main things that kept me on team Final Fantasy over team Warcraft.

I will accept that you're mostly correct that anyone in FFXIV who knows about FFXI are largely former or even current FFXI players or people who know but either think it shut down or aren't interested. But that's not to say there's no one there who isn't playing now that wouldn't be interested. And the upcoming FFXI-themed raid in another month or two will likely have some people asking questions.



Modern WoW is a dying game.Yeah, gotta stop you there. While WoW Classic (which is not locked to a particular era like everyone here seems to want, but rather is just like 5 expansions behind the current game) has been a boon for Blizzard, helping to keep subscribers between patches (it's included in a WoW subscription, its not like they get extra money for it), Modern WoW is absolutely not anywhere close to dying. Maybe you were living under a rock when they announced not just one but a series of three full expansions? They've got a minimum of several more years of new content coming their way.

Your dislike for modern MMOs is leading you to believe things that simply aren't true. There's nothing whatsoever wrong with you not liking today's games . Even I have grown a lot pickier about what I play and find myself going back to a lot of classic games over buying new ones. But you wanting modern games to be dying doesn't make them actually dying.




FFXIV:ARR -*only*- was successful because FFXIV 1.0 failed and WoW was failing. Who'da thunk that making a bad game would pressure them to make a better one? But it had absolutely nothing to do with WoW.

[BobbinT]

FFXIV is the wrong place to find people to bring over to FFXI; for the most part, anyone there who would enjoy FFXI played it before FFXIV was launched, and either already plays both or moved on to the shiny newer game. Having a discounted subscription option for FFXIV players could bring some back, maybe, but I can't imagine it would be a lot. It probably wouldn't move many FFXI players over to FFXIV, either, that ship sailed decades ago; ultimately there just isn't that much to gain from doing it.


fyi, there's gonna be a permanent addition of FFXI-alliance raid collabs at the upcoming patch 7.1 of FF14, which should follow the usual scheduled releases on 7.3 & 7.5. Again to re-iterate the permanent part, since back in 4.x SE also added a perma-trial battle collab with Monster Hunter franchise which is still available nowadays. And there's that Nier Automata perma-collab with their alliance raid series during 5.x.

Heck... they even promotes the very recent FF11's return home & discount campaigns as well:
https://x.com/FF_XIV_EN/status/1827058259347566985


Also, I came playing FF11 after FF14 & loved it, then again... it was also due to my love to the series in general as well. Still... this doesn't look like FF14 avoiding FF11, rather... they actually tries intrigues their FF14 base to check FF11, if not for the collab alone but as part of mainline series. Promoting FF11's campaign on their social medias already a move beyond the extra mile. ;)

[Rinuko]

fyi, there's gonna be a permanent addition of FFXI-alliance raid collabs at the upcoming patch 7.1 of FF14, which should follow the usual scheduled releases on 7.3 & 7.5. Again to re-iterate the permanent part, since back in 4.x SE also added a perma-trial battle collab with Monster Hunter franchise which is still available nowadays. And there's that Nier Automata perma-collab with their alliance raid series during 5.x.

Heck... they even promotes the very recent FF11's return home & discount campaigns as well:
https://x.com/FF_XIV_EN/status/1827058259347566985


Also, I came playing FF11 after FF14 & loved it, then again... it was also due to my love to the series in general as well. Still... this doesn't look like FF14 avoiding FF11, rather... they actually tries intrigues their FF14 base to check FF11, if not for the collab alone but as part of mainline series. Promoting FF11's campaign on their social medias already a move beyond the extra mile. ;)

It is nice that they are try to promote 11, but will they after the raid is out?

Not sure if it will be enough for me to re-sub to 14, I usually get bored within a week when I do.
Right now, I'll probably just watch a summary or a livestream. I don't expect much from the raid than some nostalgia bosses from base game, possible CoP.



Who'da thunk that making a bad game would pressure them to make a better one? But it had absolutely nothing to do with WoW.

It would be disingenuous to say FF14 ARR doesn't borrow a lot of inspiration from World of Warcraft, and they do from 14 in return. IIRC, the devs were suggested to play WoW while remaking ARR but I could be misremembering that fact.

[Rinuko]

MB it was ps3 not ps4. Getting my generations mixed up.

ARR originally launched with PS3 support, that's what was dropped. PS4 support probably won't be dropped, at least not in the near future. But from DT forward, it won't have the higher res textures.

PS3 was dropped by Stormblood, ~6 years into ARR re-relase.
PS4 will (likely) get dropped by next expansion in 2026, which means they have supported that generation since 2014.


wall of text

I disagree with most of these, and most is factual false.
But, I get the feeling you're a 11 purist and hate anything SE has done and released the past 1.5 decade.

[Dihlyte]

I disagree with most of these, and most is factual false.
But, I get the feeling you're a 11 purist and hate anything SE has done and released the past 1.5 decade.

That post is barely a few paragraphs, far from a wall of text.

Also, this being a RPG without voice acting, a lot of text to read, and making a post saying “wall of text” in a text base forum is quite peculiar.

I don’t know what a “FFXI purist” means, but I played FFXIII, FFXIII-2, FFXIII-LR, and enjoyed XIII-2 so much it was my favorite for a while.

I played and beat FFXV, and played and beat FFXIV 1.23b, FFXIV:ARR, in fact, I’ve played and beat every FF from FFI-XV, including 1.23b/5.4, as well as many spin-offs.

I have collected platinum trophies, ultimate weapons, etc etc.

So as far as you saying “factually false” I will need to know exactly what you’re saying is false.

FFXIV 1.0 was factually shut down.

FFVII-Remake/Rebirth, and FF16 were quoted by Square-Enix directly, failing to meet sales expectations, and FF16 has very low player reviews.

FFXIV factually loses 50% of its player base every 1-2 months after a new expansion, and 25% of the total play base doesn’t return until the next expansion.

I have 25,000 hours on XIV over 9 years, and I am very familiar with the trends of that game.

So yeah, if you want to try to tell me I’m wrong, you’re going to have to state the exact thing I’m saying that’s wrong, how it’s wrong, and pull up supporting facts, and links.

Otherwise; if you can’t produce a discussion, and reasoning for your statements, you won’t be interacted with.

[Rinuko]

you won’t be interacted with.

Well, I clearly hit a nerve. Thanks for the laughs, I guess.

I find it hilarious that you demand me providing sources, when you're the one making claims, with a lot of it feels pulled from your behind.


FFXIV factually loses 50% of its player base every 1-2 months after a new expansion, and 25% of the total play base doesn’t return until the next expansion.


Citation/source needed.
That they lose players every couple months is normal with their model. This isn't exactly new and been a thing since ARR. For someone claiming playing 25k hours, you should know that.

[Dihlyte]

Well, I clearly hit a nerve. Thanks for the laughs, I guess.

I find it hilarious that you demand me providing sources, when you're the one making claims, with a lot of it feels pulled from your behind.



Citation/source needed.
That they lose players every couple months is normal with their model. This isn't exactly new and been a thing since ARR. For someone claiming playing 25k hours, you should know that.

You didn’t strike a nerve, but the fact that’s how you’re responding, confirms you aren’t actually interested in a discussion, and if your next comment isn’t following the discussion, as this one hasn’t, I won’t respond to you again.

I find it extremely odd, that comments and commenters like this can never stay on topic or respond with anything that is even capable of being responded to. Essentially, I know your type on the internet, and it’s not worthwhile.

For example, I asked you to point out one thing that’s false, that you need context for, and you didn’t.

The one thing you did ask for me to comment on, is now a new statement.

Then, you said you agree with what I just said, and admitted that having experience I would know it.

But, if you view any metric available on the internet, you can confirm this.

View any patch cycle here.

https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

65,000-29,000 is more than 50%

“This is only steam” yes, but a metric is a metric.

If steam losses 50% it’s extremely likely that PS/non Steam users also follow a similar trend.

Go find any post on FFXIV that is 3-4 years old. 70% or more of the posters on older posts on the forums won’t have current max level on the listed character.

Go to the official lodestone, type:

na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1

Then change 1 to 2, do that for any number you like up to 40000000 and over 75% of the random numbers you choose will be deleted or below current max level.

This number represents characters created since ARR launched.

The vast majority of players that try FFXIV, quit in 2-3 years.

If you go to any achievements tracking site, the numbers of max level players is also shows less than 50%

For example Lalachievements shows “100%”
Of players own a company chocobo, while only 48% show having the dawntrail mount.


100%=550,239 characters
48%= 262,600

Literally every measurable metric shows FFXIV loses 50%+ of its player base each expansion cycle.

You just agreed to it.

[Alhanelem]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExOWtyNjB4cmhtN3gxNDB6ejEya3U4eHI4MnJoOHZ6bG9qaGoyazc0eSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/uWzS6ZLs0AaVOJlgRd/giphy.webp1234567890

[Rinuko]

“This is only steam” yes, but a metric is a metric.
If steam losses 50% it’s extremely likely that PS/non Steam users also follow a similar trend.


As i suspected, just speculations and wild guesses.


You just agreed to it.


I agreed to what?

[Beastorizer]

Money was set aside by Square Enix to literally remake ff11 for ps3, but they used the money to make ff14 instead. ff14 was always supposed to be for ff11 players to move to and they fully intended to close 11, but they messed it up and made something most ff11 players didn't like.

Seeing what they made I'm really glad they didn't remake ff11 for ps3, because they obviously forgot why people liked the game and because of that decision ff11 still exists in a pure form today.

https://massivelyop.com/2021/09/23/final-fantasy-xiv-is-why-final-fantasy-xi-didnt-get-a-playstation-3-port/

Broken record, Imo SE never really recovered from XIV, as the first major FF mainland title failure ever.......Now, selling 3 million copies is a failure due to XIV 1.0. Someone stated XIV 1.0 cost SE 400,000,000 USD to make.

Damn (Ron Simmons voice)

Avengers takes a lot of $hit as a costly failure, but Avengers did not start their Finacial woes, simply added to them. XIV ARR made SE a lot of money, but it is kind of a "Cut off your nose to spite your face" kind of deal. Or, counterproductive as a better term. The financial needle has not been moving for SE for about a decade.........

The XI and XIV debacle will go down as the biggest and most costly SE blunder imo, because it was the start of their troubles. Wonder if they do the same thing, knowing what they know now lol?

[Dihlyte]

XIV ARR made SE a lot of money.

I find it funny how developers copy WoW when it was failing, and have been effectively killing the genre slowly.

Meanwhile Old School RuneScape, Classic WoW, EverQuest, and even to a degree FFXI prove more profitable and sought after titles.

The only reason FFXIV:ARRhasn’t fallen on its face yet, is it extremely luckily, has somehow managed to bring in new players faster than it is losing players. FFXIV has lost over 25 million users at this point. Imagine if they retained even half of those numbers, by making an actually engaging RPG. Simple enough to get into, but with proper depth to retain veterans.

I predict Dawntrail is going to be the last financially successful expansion to FFXIV, and everything I have predicted about FFXIV has been true, to a perfect T.

Unfortunately I feel FFXIV:ARR is actually going to be the downfall of Final Fantasy. I personally feel FFXIV, and FF16 has hurt the series far more than FFXIV 1.0 ever did.