FFXI Remaster - Remake

[Dihlyte]

This is a silly topic to begin with, but let's jump into it for the sake of our love for the game. (On the off chance SE does read these forums, and cares about their game.)

First off, no one wants a remake.

FFVII - Remake is a nice idea, but no fan actually wanted it.

Many fans would not mind it, but "not minding" something and "wanting" something are entirely different.

People wanted a remaster, proper updated graphics for FFVII, as it was the worst looking game in the series. We didn't want a completely different game, as with FFXI, no one wants a remake.

We want FFXI as it is, with updated graphics, and some updates to fix issues such as the bouncing camera issue, and the "animation lock until I'm dead" issue.




For Square-Enix:

If SE actually is remastering FFXI, I'm almost entirely confident in saying, people want the game to be exactly as it is now.

In order for a remaster to be successful, more successful than the original launch of FFXI, it needs 5 things.


1.) The game must have content that is extremely difficult, requires proper party coordination and offer rare, ever-lasting rewards, as the original launch did. If a piece of equipment is extremely difficult to obtain, it should always be upgradeable. No content and more specifically, no piece of difficult to obtain equipment should ever go outdated.

2.) The game must be changed in only *one* area, so that the story line can be completed by players solo. Locking the majority of players out of the simple basic main portion of the game, is why this game never really took off. The price also held back many players as well (The PS2 hardware being over 100 dollars, I am not referring to the subscription. A subscription model is very good, the PS2 hardware price was what kept many players from playing this game. Me included.) If 500,000 people played FFXI at its peak, but only 1,000 players ever beat the main story before it was updated, that is a major issue.

3.) The remaster, must be able to replicate the game exactly. If the player cannot 100% recreate the exact experience then its not a remaster. The UI must be capable of looking exactly the same, without any "extra-hand-holding" forced UI elements. The damage text must be pop-up like traditional FFXI and Final Fantasy games. Not that "flying text" stuff in FFXIV, which is a major eye sore. The game also must not have any glowing "go here, click this" stuff. Even FFXI currently has "glowing click here" areas, and this 100% needs to be an option that is capable of being turned off. Veteran gamers such as myself, find this to be a major eye sore. A proper UI should allow the player to turn off every single element that isnt part of the actual background and environment. Also, FFXI has an auto-hide chat log, This 100% needs to be implemented. FFXI's "hotbar" or "macro bar" also disappears when not in use. This also must be an option. The appeal of FFXI over FFXIV is that the UI is clean and neat. Not a eye sore cluttered mess like modern MMO's. (My opinion.)

4.) It must not be FFXI-A Realm Reborn. The reason FFXI and FFXIV both can exist, is because FFXI is not FFXIV. Turning FFXI into a cheap "Themepark" video game, not only hurts the RPG genre, but also will hurt either FFXI now, or FFXIV now.

5.) The game must play, and feel as it does now. All the currencies, all the features, all the elements of gameplay, all the equipment, gearsets, limit breaks quests, conquest maps/points, key items, crystals, signet, all of it all must be still in the remaster. Party play should never be forced (for just the main story experience) and solo should never be forced (ever, including during the story battles) and partying-up should always be rewarded.

Please do not do a remake. Make it a remaster.




Since I’m here, I’ll say it more clearly for Square-Enix, and Naoki Yoshida:

Dear Square-Enix:

Stellar Blade is an action game. 1 million units sold.

Baulders Gate 3 is a turn based RPG: 10+ million units sold.

FF16 is an easy action game: 3 million units sold.

Elden Ring is a harder game: 25 million units sold.


Looks to me, like turn based games, especially if they are difficult, will sell well, as opposed as this idea that easy action games are “popular”

Lastly.

Minecraft has horrible graphics: 300+ million units sold.


No one cares about graphics, easy games, or action games.

People want gameplay. We don’t play video games for cutscenes, graphics, and an “easy time” that is what movies are for.

Video games are supposed to focus on gameplay, challenges, engagement.

The original wasn’t very successful, because to play it, you needed to drop 150$ on a hard drive, game, and subscription. It also didn’t run very well, and 22 years later it still doesn’t run well. You also can’t expect people to be in a party 100% of the time, not in today’s world. Party content should be reserved for endgame, and side quests, etc.




For the community:

I don't actually think Square-Enix would make a proper remaster or remake of FFXI.

If they somehow did do this, I honestly trust them more to completely ruin both FFXI now, and the remaster, so both games end up dying. They would be able to create enough "hype" that just enough players leave this game, to try the new one, and then when the new one turns out not to be a proper RPG, that both games end up dying, and we won't have anything actually engaging, thrilling, interesting, or challenging to play anymore.

So I made this random pointless post, just on the off chance SE is actually doing it. It is my hope, that if they do make the game, that they do it right, and make it exactly how the game is now, with only minor improvements to actual issues.

I know many people want the 2002/2004 experience, but there does need to be an option for players to complete the story solo, as that is the most basic aspect of any video game, and locking players out is silly. You can still create this same experience, by making the world difficult to traverse, leveling challenging and engaging, while also allowing players to experience the story without the need to be forced into a party. A well designed game, including a MMO, offers players the option to complete the simple tasks solo or in a party. They should never be forced to go solo or forced into a party for the basic aspects. That is what side content is for. Farming NM's or leveling more quickly. Party play should be encouraged.

We can discuss why it needs to be exactly like 2002/2004, but based on any logic or success of any other game, it all points to FFXI's story line, should be capable of being cleared solo. You want more people capable of doing more content, not only as a player, but also as a developer. Just as I said, being able to clear the story solo, does not translate into the game being easy. They still can have zones that are difficult to reach, or enemies that will destroy players. The point I'm making is if done right, players can complete the story at a reasonable level of difficulty while solo, so the game can thrive. Then unlike other themepark games, the side content, is actually challenging and rewarding as it rightfully should be. Side content, should never be easy, or quick. Side content should always be more difficult, more engaging, more challenging, more rewarding, that the main story. This is how things are in every traditional Final Fantasy, and rightfully so.

[Dihlyte]

Just in case, people are wondering where this is coming from:


A few events that have happened have placed a very small possibility of this actually happening, in peoples minds:

1.) Matsui was pulled off FFXI.
2.) FFXI's team was pulled off FFXI to "go work on something more modern." (I personally doubt this is FFXIV's alliance raid. FFXIV's alliance raids are pretty straight forward and wouldn't need additional staff.)
3.) FFXI/FFXIV's division is apparently working on two unannounced games. (They should be announced soon, so we won't be discussing this very long.)
4.) FFXI's canceled mobile game has the very assets for this to happen.
5.) FFXIV both now, and 1.x also has assets to help boost productivity if this was being done.
6.) We are Vana'diel site, is a very odd thing to exist. It would make more sense if they are doing a remaster/remake of FFXI.
7.) The time frame of them remaking FFXIV (ARR) and "continuing to update FFXIV 1.x" is very similar to how things have been progressing for FFXI over the past 3 years. (Smaller updates to FFXI, while stirrings of other things going on at SE, see above.)
8.) Other things I'm probably forgetting in this very moment while I'm typing.

[Dihlyte]

... and one more thing Square-Enix.

If you are doing this, please for the love of all things holy and right...

Please plan ahead, and implement a damage cap.

"Stat-Squish" and "reworks" of jobs and classes, are such bad form. It really does make a development team look very disorganized when they are having to do a stat-squish and rework entire jobs. Especially if they do it more than once. Jobs should never have to be reworked. Please plan ahead.

Also, a damage cap is much more logical. It also looks very nice as a player. Seeing that rare 999,999 (I know FFXI is 99,999, but 999,999 is even nicer looking) is oh so satisfying.


Edit:

For Square-Enix and the community.

One very simple way to recreate 2002/2004, and also allow solo play of story battles.

Create 2 versions of story battles.

1.) Solo version.
2.) Party version.

Solo version would just unlock the proceeding cutscenes/quests.
Party version would offer the rewards that the game currently offers.

Both FFXI now, and FFXIV now, have two versions of story battles. "Hard" and Extreme" in XIV's case, and XI has VE, E, N, D, VD versions of many fights.

This is the simple answer obviously.

[Kalimairo]

A ffxi remaster in the form of Zodaic age when it comes to Graphics will be fucking Perfect THAT WILL enable the game for 15 more years lol

also the solo and party version is a thing in DQX they should add it to XI if u do story 2.0 u get extra Rewards

[Dihlyte]

I didn’t try the Zodiac Age personally.

I don’t know if they will even actually do a remake/remaster.

I just figure it would be good for them to have some input from fans.

Honestly I believe they should do more player polls.

I recently learned that RuneScape won’t even make any changes that aren’t approved by their player base. Seems like a very good approach in my opinion.

[Alhanelem]

It is highly unlikely. FFXIV is getting an FFXI themed raid in a few months. I doubt there is anything going on relating to FFXI other than its own development and that.

[Dihlyte]

I don’t disagree.

I just felt feedback wouldn’t hurt.

[svengalis]

tbh im not sure how you fix the issues with this game without an actual remake to make it more modern.

[Alhanelem]

tbh im not sure how you fix the issues with this game without an actual remake to make it more modern.
Well that's what we want, ideally. Give us modern visuals, the same core combat system just with some of the clunkiness removed (i.e. remove most of the painfully long animation lock pervasive throughout the game), on a modern engine designed with modern internet connections in mind, which will remove many of the technical limitations like inventory capacity, caps on the number of spells and abilities, and the autotranslate dictionary, etc. etc. etc. There is so much that could be improved while retaining the essence of what makes the game fun.

[radar]

I trust modern Square Enix to remake XI as much as I trust Blizzard to remake World of Warcraft.

[Alhanelem]

They've kinda already done that...

[Dihlyte]

I trust modern Square Enix to remake XI as much as I trust Blizzard to remake World of Warcraft.

I don’t know anything about Blizzard, but as a gamer, I trust that you mean you don’t trust either of them at all.

I honestly don’t understand why developers don’t play their own games to test them properly.

I think the closest gamers get to devs playing their own games, is FFXIV where Yoshida creates a boosted character, gives himself the best raid gear and jumps into a few raids/dungeons. (Which never in my life would I actually consider that play testing a game.) Funny enough, even with him only playing that tiny amount he saw FFXIV was so boring, even in that short amount of time, he admitted to it putting him to sleep. Imagine how someone who is paying to play the game would feel….

[radar]

If FFXI was remade today it would have a cash shop, it would have game guides built into the game forcing you you to do things, you would be lead from one location to the next, the zones would be far smaller and be effective corridors where you would be funneled to locations of interest, there would be quest markers, there would be a quest log on the screen that you level from, there would be 99% less gear, level cap quests would be removed and leveling speed increased, evasion and accuracy would be removed, all the races would have the same animations, gil would be worthless to make sure RMT are not a problem, all jobs would do the same dmg and be interchangeable, there would be one set of gear at endgame that will only change every 6 months when they add a new one and invalidate the old one, it would be based around dungeons rotations and the stories would be inoffensive bland rubbish, half the characters would be black with affro's and corn rows that play hiphop music when you engage a monster and the leader of every nation would be a lgbt.

All hotpants and subligars will be removed and replaced with thick wollen pants, the tops that show cleavage would have an undershirt for your safety.

[Alhanelem]

If FFXI was remade today it would have a cash shop, it would have game guides built into the game forcing you you to do things, you would be lead from one location to the next, the zones would be far smaller and be effective corridors where you would be funneled to locations of interest, there would be quest markers, there would be a quest log on the screen that you level from, there would be 99% less gear, level cap quests would be removed and leveling speed increased, evasion and accuracy would be removed, all the races would have the same animations, gil would be worthless to make sure RMT are not a problem, all jobs would do the same dmg and be interchangeable, there would be one set of gear at endgame that will only change every 6 months when they add a new one and invalidate the old one, it would be based around dungeons rotations and the stories would be inoffensive bland rubbish, half the characters would be black with affro's and corn rows that play hiphop music when you engage a monster and the leader of every nation would be a lgbt.

All hotpants and subligars will be removed and replaced with thick wollen pants, the tops that show cleavage would have an undershirt for your safety.
I don't know if it's intended as hyperbole, but I don't think you have to worry about your subligars. FFXIV has them too, and plenty of other minimal-cover outfits.

And I think they know as well as we do, players wouldn't accept a remake with the combat system being completely different. There are improvements we'd probably appriciate, like making movement more fluid/responsive and getting rid of animation lock, but if they made combat a lot faster and dramatically simplified, it would backfire. The people playing FFXI today are specifically playing it because it has this depth that modern games lack. And while such a game is never going to top the charts, there is at least some demand for a more technical MMO, as more than one company has tried in the past. The question is just if there is *enough*.

[Dihlyte]

If FFXI was remade today it would have a cash shop, it would have game guides built into the game forcing you you to do things, you would be lead from one location to the next, the zones would be far smaller and be effective corridors where you would be funneled to locations of interest, there would be quest markers, there would be a quest log on the screen that you level from, there would be 99% less gear, level cap quests would be removed and leveling speed increased, evasion and accuracy would be removed, all the races would have the same animations, gil would be worthless to make sure RMT are not a problem, all jobs would do the same dmg and be interchangeable, there would be one set of gear at endgame that will only change every 6 months when they add a new one and invalidate the old one, it would be based around dungeons rotations and the stories would be inoffensive bland rubbish, half the characters would be black with affro's and corn rows that play hiphop music when you engage a monster and the leader of every nation would be a lgbt.

All hotpants and subligars will be removed and replaced with thick wollen pants, the tops that show cleavage would have an undershirt for your safety.

lol this is a great response.

I would “like” it but I fear SE would end up taking it seriously, and doing this exact thing.

It’s clearly satire, but I got a nice laugh out of it regardless.

[Zattano]

Maximum micro-transactions seems to be the way of modern online games unfortunately.

[Teraniku]

As I've suggested before, They need to Port / Remake FFXI into the FFXIV engine making Vana'Diel an Expansion Area to XIV where it keeps it's uniqueness and is it's own Area with separate rules for leveling, gear etc, keeping in line with what made FFXI the game it is. This puts all the devs for the game(s) on the same code base as far as why it would be doable / practical from SE's point of View . Start with the main game pre RoZ to start, then proceed through each expansion. Adding some of the modern conveniences like Warp Rings and HP tp's etc.

[Zenion]

As I've suggested before, They need to Port / Remake FFXI into the FFXIV engine making Vana'Diel an Expansion Area to XIV where it keeps it's uniqueness and is it's own Area with separate rules for leveling, gear etc, keeping in line with what made FFXI the game it is. This puts all the devs for the game(s) on the same code base as far as why it would be doable / practical from SE's point of View . Start with the main game pre RoZ to start, then proceed through each expansion. Adding some of the modern conveniences like Warp Rings and HP tp's etc.

Nope, no way, a thousand times no. A solution where FFXI becomes part of FFXIV is no solution at all, because that's a big fat "screw you" to the players that are still here because they vastly prefer FFXI's style of gameplay over FFXIV's. If you can make that engine still handle like FFXI with the text commands and the menus and the job system that isn't based on weapon equipped and the bosses without bright flashy "move or die" zones and just... basically all the things that are World of Warcraft instead of Everquest... then sure, but that's literally taking one game, and putting a whole other distinct game in it; it would be much simpler to just make FFXI-2 separate from FFXIV to avoid a whole bunch of potential weird interactions.

[Alhanelem]

Nope, no way, a thousand times no. A solution where FFXI becomes part of FFXIV is no solution at all, because that's a big fat "screw you" to the players that are still here because they vastly prefer FFXI's style of gameplay over FFXIV's. If you can make that engine still handle like FFXI with the text commands and the menus and the job system that isn't based on weapon equipped and the bosses without bright flashy "move or die" zones and just... basically all the things that are World of Warcraft instead of Everquest... then sure, but that's literally taking one game, and putting a whole other distinct game in it; it would be much simpler to just make FFXI-2 separate from FFXIV to avoid a whole bunch of potential weird interactions.

Honestly FFXI and FFXIV are really just two different kinds of puzzle games.


FFXI be all like "use these buttons with this gear at this time and at this percent use this item and these spells and these stats instead and dont nuke when he does this animation then swap this gear and do this. while remembering to save your biggest stuff for that final push below 10% to kill him fast or you die, and dont stand behind him or he does this move and then later don't stand too close because that move. And turn away during that move or you'll heal him.

FFXIV be all like "stand here during this move, then run over there and stack together and then spread out and then run here and then grab these balls and then walk into the line moving across the arena one person at a time then play hot potato with the contagious status effect and press a bunch of buttons, then make sure you're all standing on different squares for this move, and press lots of buttons while you're doing it.

Different styles, same basic end result. It's mostly just in the presentation and, to some extent, the pacing.

[Beastorizer]

First off, no one wants a remake.


A lot of people do indeed want a remake. FFXI Reddit is a vastly more active community than the official forums.

I personally feel XI is....what it kinda is atm......

.........However, FFVII remake was made because that action -esque combat is more accessible than turn-based. So, this would be a reason I could see a FFXI remake. It would make XI accessible to more players because the combat would most likely be action based instead of .....whatever XI is lol........

Tab target lol?

[Dihlyte]

A lot of people do indeed want a remake. FFXI Reddit is a vastly more active community than the official forums.

I personally feel XI is....what it kinda is atm......

.........However, FFVII remake was made because that action -esque combat is more accessible than turn-based. So, this would be a reason I could see a FFXI remake. It would make XI accessible to more players because the combat would most likely be action based instead of .....whatever XI is lol........

Tab target lol?

If action RPG’s are more accessible, why are games like WoW classic and hardcore, and Baulders Gate 3 making so much more money than games like Stellar Blade, FF16, and the like?

Real gamers want harder more engaging games, and sales show it.

SE Is just slow to realize it. Yoshida even said action games are a thing, and they aren’t. Especially not easy action games like FF16.

[Dihlyte]

Since I’m here, I’ll say it more clearly for Square-Enix, and Naoki Yoshida:

Dear Square-Enix:

Stellar Blade is an action game. 1 million units sold.

Baulders Gate 3 is a turn based RPG: 10+ million units sold.

FF16 is an easy action game: 3 million units sold.

Elden Ring is a harder game: 25 million units sold.


Looks to me, like turn based games, especially if they are difficult, will sell well, as opposed as this idea that easy action games are “popular”

Lastly.

Minecraft has horrible graphics: 300+ million units sold.


No one cares about graphics, easy games, or action games.

[Alhanelem]

But yeah, the main problem with a remake is they would really have to at least partially update the combat systems to appeal to a new audience. If everything was left exactly as it is, well, it simply wouldn't sell.

[Alhanelem]

Since I’m here, I’ll say it more clearly for Square-Enix, and Naoki Yoshida:

Dear Square-Enix:

Stellar Blade is an action game. 1 million units sold.

Baulders Gate 3 is a turn based RPG: 10+ million units sold.

FF16 is an easy action game: 3 million units sold.

Elden Ring is a harder game: 25 million units sold.


Looks to me, like turn based games, especially if they are difficult, will sell well, as opposed as this idea that easy action games are “popular”

Lastly.

Minecraft has horrible graphics: 300+ million units sold.


No one cares about graphics, easy games, or action games.
I don't think the games you cited sold well specifically because of their difficulty. It's more just because they were exceptionally polished, excellent all-around experiences- This meant that people wanted to play them even if they weren't specifically looking for a hard game.

[Dihlyte]

But yeah, the main problem with a remake is they would really have to at least partially update the combat systems to appeal to a new audience. If everything was left exactly as it is, well, it simply wouldn't sell.

I’m not trying to argue here, but why?

The people who want FFXIV, have FFXIV. The people who want a FFXI style game, could/can play FFXI.

Why would they need to change anything except update the game to run more smoothly, and update the graphics to look more acceptable?

Honestly they don’t even “need” to touch the graphics. Just update the game so it runs smoother, and easier to install.

That alone would sell. It’s already profitable, make it easy to install, and such, and you got yourself something more profitable than what is already profitable.

[Dihlyte]

I don't think the games you cited sold well specifically because of their difficulty. It's more just because they were exceptionally polished, excellent all-around experiences- This meant that people wanted to play them even if they weren't specifically looking for a hard game.

If I ever tried Elden Ring, I would only ever buy it or play it because I heard it was difficult.

I would never buy it because it’s “an action game.”

Most people I talk to appreciate the game because it is difficult. That’s the appeal to my understanding, as is in my case personally.

Edit: also, we are completely glazing over the fact I mentioned “hardcore WoW” that literally is the whole point, and why hardcore WoW is popular. Because it’s a style of difficulty that is interesting and fun.

This is a very common and ongoing interest of gamers. Harder, more engaging gameplay games. Which was my whole point. Easy, simple games aren’t selling as well as more difficult and engaging games.


One of FFXIV’s biggest complaints is that it’s too easy. Naoki Yoshida himself the game is so easy and boring it literally puts him to sleep. It’s confusing to me that he would say that, and yet he is the developer of that very game. No one wants that, so why is he doing it? Makes no sense. Make a better game, and make more money.

[Alhanelem]

The people who want FFXIV, have FFXIV. The people who want a FFXI style game, could/can play FFXI.The problem is the number of people that want this that aren't already playing XI now isn't a very large number. There's a reason why so many more people are playing FFXIV and WoW and other modern MMOs compared to FFXI. They're easier to understand and get into. FFXI is a wonderful game that is, sadly in more ways than one, beyond a lot of today's gamers.

[Alhanelem]

If I ever tried Elden Ring, I would only ever buy it or play it because I heard it was difficult.

I would never buy it because it’s “an action game.”


I mean, that's fine, but that's just you. And The people you say you know are people who are like you who are into that sort of thing. But Elden Ring and Baldur's Gate attracted way more people than simply people looking for more challenging games. These games h ad personality, they oozed quality, and both were excellent candidates for role play and other fun stuff. They both have way, way more to offer than simply a bit of challenge.

You can find all sorts of "easy" games that sell big numbers. Difficulty is just one factor out of many. More than one company tried to make a 'hardcore" MMO after FFXI and none were very successful. You can't just have difficulty for the sake of difficulty, it has to be the right kind, and it still has to be a quality package.

[Dihlyte]

That’s wasn’t my point, so I’ll simply restate my point for clarity to Square-Enix, as I would not like to debate or argue different points than my main point.

People who play video games instead of movies, are looking to enjoy the gameplay, not a “just a story.”

People who play RPG’s are looking for a deeper more engaging experience over regular video games.

RPG’s are not supposed to be simple or easy.

MMORPG’s more specifically are supposed to be intended for people who want an even bigger RPG, because they want to sink time into an engaging and challenging game.

If people want a simple easy MMORPG, that is what FFXIV is for.

Fans of FFXI should naturally want a harder more engaging, deep, and satisfying experience, as that’s why we play it. Because it is not FFXIV, because it is not simple, because it is not easy.

That’s why we play FFXI, and what we want from FFXI.

Making FFXI into anything it is not, would not satisfy the FFXI fanbase. It would be an insult to the people who have supported FFXI and SE through all these years.

Please SE respect your fans, and keep FFXI an engaging, satisfying video game that is interesting, creative, unpredictable, difficult, expansive, massive, meaningful, and everything else that FFXI represents.





TLDR:

Square-Enix made an anchovy pineapple pizza (FFXI)
People who want an anchovy pineapple pizza love it, and want to keep enjoying it.

Turning FFXI into a boring bland cheese pizza so more people "buy it" is an insult to people who enjoy something special, and takes away what makes FFXI, FFXI.

[Zenion]

The thing is, there has been a bit of a paradigm shift in game design since FFXI was released. Thanks to streaming and Youtube, there are as many people watching games as playing them. If you want a game to really take off now, it needs to be entertaining to sit and watch somebody else play, and FFXI is... well, not that. If you don't play FFXI, you're not going to watch someone else play it.

FFXIV is bigger and flashier, more going on on-screen to catch a viewer's eye, and it tries to be prettier with its glamours and its modern graphics. Raids are big, with the zoomed out camera so you can see the arena - because they paid for the whole room, they're using the whole room. It's much more streamable.

I think they would need to cater to that a little to make an FFXI remake that wouldn't just be needlessly spending money on an existing audience. I'm not sure how they could without changing the character of the game, maybe make animations more dynamic, or fix the "you cannot see the enemy" problem so fights can move around a bit more? Maybe give a "cinematic" camera mode players can choose to use, which gives that big scaled-out view of a fight, maybe give more visual telegraphing of major TP moves when a monster is supposed to be readying them? (Maybe host a server or two outside Japan so non-Japanese players can get to see monsters readying their TP moves before the damage from them is applied, as seems to be intended gameplay?)

And of course, in terms of just regular gameplay... nobody can say quests couldn't be better. I don't need every quest to tell me exactly what coordinates of what zone I need to visit like Seekers of Adoulin tended to do, but maybe when a quest has six steps that need to be completed in order, the quest log could tell me which step I most recently completed?

What FFXI really needs, though, is a tutorial. When I started playing, I was level grinding for probably two hours before I realized I started with equipment, and it wasn't equipped by default (on black mage! That was painful.) Just the basic controls are unintuitive enough that I've had people I tried to introduce to the game give up ten minutes in because they couldn't figure out how any of it even worked. First character on an SE account should get dropped into a tutorial zone to learn the basics of the game before bring dropped into a world that expects players to know everything and tries to punish ignorance.

[Dragoy]

I'm not sure how they could without changing the character of the game, maybe make animations more dynamic

Gotta be careful when "touching up" them animations. Somehow I feel like characters in FFXI have more weight than those in, say, FFXIV, while just moving them around.

Also...





Maybe give a "cinematic" camera mode players can choose to use, which gives that big scaled-out view of a fight

Meanwhile, back in 2012-09-07...


Greetings!

We can relate to those of you who have wanted to extend the third person camera distance especially when fighting larger monsters. I wish we could just say "Let's do it!" but there are quite a few obstacles we must overcome before we can make this possible.

The geographical data and game system are designed around the current camera system, so if we allow the camera to zoom out more or allow for more viewing angles, there is a risk that you will view things you are not supposed to, or the camera can even get stuck!

Moving forward, there are a few things we need to consider before we can make such adjustments to the camera:


When using the page up/down keys, it may seem that the position of both character and camera are moving, but the actual position remains the same. It's just the angle that is being adjusted. If we were to make it so the angle becomes wider while the distance remains the same, the view can become so obscured that players may actually get sick from the 3D graphics while the character is moving.


If we were to add a function allowing to physically move the camera away from the character, you should be able to see more, but again there are concerns for geographical conflicts.


Nevertheless, the Development Team would like to implement this feature so they are going test out what will happen when physically moving the camera backwards, along with a variety of settings in order to verify this. We can't guarantee anything but we'll be sure to keep you updated as we progress!

Wonder what happened to that.

Perhaps a reminder is in order, especially now that they have more time for things not-expansions-and-suches.

On a similar note, it would be great if they allowed for a greater draw distance to be set.


(Maybe host a server or two outside Japan so non-Japanese players can get to see monsters readying their TP moves before the damage from them is applied, as seems to be intended gameplay?)

Yes please.


And of course, in terms of just regular gameplay... nobody can say quests couldn't be better. I don't need every quest to tell me exactly what coordinates of what zone I need to visit like Seekers of Adoulin tended to do, but maybe when a quest has six steps that need to be completed in order, the quest log could tell me which step I most recently completed?

What FFXI really needs, though, is a tutorial. When I started playing, I was level grinding for probably two hours before I realized I started with equipment, and it wasn't equipped by default (on black mage! That was painful.) Just the basic controls are unintuitive enough that I've had people I tried to introduce to the game give up ten minutes in because they couldn't figure out how any of it even worked. First character on an SE account should get dropped into a tutorial zone to learn the basics of the game before bring dropped into a world that expects players to know everything and tries to punish ignorance.

Yes yes.

[Alhanelem]

"RPGs are not supposed to be simple or easy."RPGs have never carried a specific inherent level of difficulty. Your argument is flawed on this premise alone.

RPGs are as much "role playing" as they are "game." That's why they're called RPGs. They aren't called RPHGs or role playing hard games, nor RPEGs, or role playing easy games. There is no implication of any specific level of difficulty (which itself is abstract and subjective anyway) inherent to the genre.

You want harder games, and that's fine. But most people are not looking to have their balls busted, they just want the experience to be fun. And further than that, having a game be "easy" doesn't mean you want to "watch a movie." such players still want the interactive elements that come with a video game that a movie doesn't offer. And there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm not saying this game or any particular game should be "easy" or "hard." but in the majority of cases, the level of challenge is not the primary factor attracting players to the game. It is a factor, but it is usually secondary to other factors of the experience.



Turning FFXI into a boring bland cheese pizza so more people "buy it" is an insult to people who enjoy something special, and takes away what makes FFXI, FFXI. Difficulty isn't what puts the toppings on the FFXI pizza . Or any other game pizza for that matter. What does that depends on the individual. If all you wanted was a hard game, you probably wouldn't be playing FFXI. There are harder games out there, espeically that don't require an internet connection or other people at all, and you named some of them yourself.

If you want to use the analogy, difficulty is on the menu of toppings for you to choose from when you order a pizza. it is not an explicitly required component for the pizza to be called a pizza.

Ultimately, you are projecting your own personal desires onto others. If difficulty is all that matters to you, that's fine. But you can't just look at two hard games that were successful and conclude that the difficulty is what sold them because it would have sold them to you.

FFXIV has been wildly successful, particularly compared to many of SE's other projects, and while it has some fairly difficult elements, it isn't specifically known for its difficulty. It's pretty clear to me that this isn't one of the primary attractors for the game.

[Zattano]

Do we really want a new game? or do we want them to remove the bs and update the graphics? Seems like the later from what I've read.
FFXIV is great gameplay and graphics, but too cookie cutterish for me. I like to customize and respond accordingly, not run the same rotation over and over...
I think the Title, FFXI Remaster/Remake, would be fantastic. But would that mean starting over? Would they have the audience to justify the cost?
Considering most of us will continue paying our sub regardless, probably not.

[Zattano]

But I would indeed like to see the clunkiness and graphics improved. More players would liven up the game. But overhaul? No thanks.

[Dihlyte]

R. Your argument is flawed


Look, I'm going to try to help you out here.

I mentioned numerous times that I'm not here to argue, so I'm going to stress that statement here, and try my best to assure you this is not an argumentative response, but an attempt to help guide you.

The reason many people feel your replies are simply just to argue, is for this type of response right here.

These types of responses are very frequent, and even wildly popular on the FFXIV forums, but they are 100% unproductive.

You are probably the person who comments the most on the FFXI forums, so I'm going to assume, hopefully correctly that you care about FFXI.

In this post, I don't see really how you care about FFXI or FFXIV based on only the text.

First off, I was not making an argument, I was making a statement.

If you did not understand the statement, or did not agree with it, that by nature does not make it "flawed."

Most of the time, when someone makes a statement, and another person replies with "that is flawed" 99% of the time, I would believe the person saying "the statement is flawed, "simply didn't understand or cannot reasonably reply as to why they disagree.

In this case, you replied with a statement that was not in the same vein as mine. You even had to create your own analogy to adjust my initial statement, which contradicts the very basis of my statement, which implies to me, that you simply did not understand my statement.

I could explain to you in grave detail, but I will only do so, if you agree to put in proper effort to consider what I'm saying, and respond with reasoning and civility.

I do not find simple argumentative behavior to be productive.

Moreso, I try my best to approach all disagreements as a learning experience. The issue with that, is replies such as this. Simply saying "you're wrong" and not really replying with any validity, and large masses simply "agreeing" or "liking" is a very common and highly unproductive way of communicating.

I'm not saying I'm perfect, in fact, I fall into this behavior myself as it is extremely common in today's society, but I'm trying here, my best on the FFXI forums to stick to this, despite what little reactions such as these I do recieve.

I personally genuinely appreciate when I find someone I disagree with, but only if they are willing to put in proper effort to express their side in a civilized comprehensive way.

If you're struggling to follow what I mean here, let me at least give you an example based on my comment and your reply.

First, my statement "RPG's should not be easy and simple" and you chose to only focus on the "easy" part of my statement, when the statement is clearly a very simplified blanket statement about the nature of design of RPG's as a whole.

Hopefully we can agree that such a simplified statement is not properly expressive of the complex nature of RPG'a as a genre.

Even though it was a massively simplified statement, you even disregarded one entire half of the very clearly defined and joined other half "simple."

So based on a very clear simplified statement you completely ignored the second conjoined part of the statement that was being made. "Simple and easy" went together in my statement, and you chose to completely disregard it's other half to focus on a singular aspect.

This makes your comment come of as just argumentative for the sake of argumentative, as you're not even taking my statement into full account.

So based on your reply, I'm not even able to respond to what you want to focus on, as you've effectively changed my statement to form a reply that is focused on, what I will call a "phantom" comment. The "person" you're responding to, did not make the claim, you're implying that they did. As this was not my statement.

I am sort of running around in circles here, so I will leave it at that.

If you would like me to respond properly I would kindly ask you to reconsider my statement in its entirety, and forumlate a communicative and desirable reply, instead of one that segments my comment into less than what is was intended as, and turns it into one founded on arguments, instead of sharing and discussing opinions. Your opinon is not better than mine. Yours may be more popular, or mine may be more popular, but that does not make yours better.

The only way an opinion is better than another, is when a person is capable of defending both sides equally. If you're not capable of defending why my statement is better than yours, and know all the things I know on this subject matter, then your opinion cannot be better than mine.

Regardless if your or my opinion is better or not, if this is the endgoal of the discussion, then no discussion is being had at all. Discussions are and should be defined by how much is being learned by the involved parties. If no one is learning anything, then the discussion is unproductive.


Finally, to simplify what has been said here:

-I will not participate in "arguments" on the FFXI forums. These forums are too small, and I care for and appreciate this game too much to resort to this behavior.
-I'm asking you, as someone who posts the most frequently on the FFXI forums to consider how you post, that shows your genuine appreciation for the associated game FFXI, of which its designed.
-I made a point, that raw arguments are not productive. Parties involved in discussion, should seek to learn, otherwise the activity is deemed unproductive.

[Alhanelem]

I mentioned numerous times that I'm not here to argue,You say that, but you make arguments. And I don't mean the fighting kind, I mean the making a case for something kind. If you make a case for something and I feel it's not well supported, well, I'm going to challenge it. It's not a matter of hostility, it's just good and proper discussion.


If you did not understand the statement, or did not agree with it, that by nature does not make it "flawed."It doesn't automatically make it flawed, but I can certainly give reasons why I think it does make it flawed. There's a difference, and I'm not sure if you're just being obtuse or actually don't see the difference.


but I will only do so, if you agree to put in proper effort to consider what I'm saying, and respond with reasoning and civility.I always consider what people say, and I always respond with reasoning and civility. I'm sorry if you've ever felt otherwise, but I never enter any discussion without considering the other point of view. But you have to understand that one can respect other's points of view without agreeing with them. Me disagreeing with you on something or finding flaws in the cases you make for something doesn't mean I didn't consider your point of view.



-I will not participate in "arguments" on the FFXI forums.The whole point of a forum is do discuss and debate. If you won't participate in "arguments" (you used quotation marks), then you're in the wrong place. And again, when I use the word "arguments" I don't mean "fights," but rather making cases for positions. If you make a good case for something, I will back it. If you don't, I will certainly say why I think so.

I don't feel that I've ever been uncivil toward you in this thread. If you feel otherwise, I'd really appreciate you identifying what you felt was uncivil.

If you come on to a forum and post opinions about things, other people are going to respond with theirs, and why they agree or don't agree with yours. I'm not sure why this seems out of the ordinary to you.



First, my statement "RPG's should not be easy and simple" and you chose to only focus on the "easy" part of my statement, when the statement is clearly a very simplified blanket statement about the nature of design of RPG's as a whole.I focused on the entire statement- there wasn't much to it. you said RPGs should not be easy and simple. And while I realize that it is a blanket statement, it's still an opinion and I can still dispute it. It depends on the target audience. There are RPGs with difficulty and depth, and there are those that aren't. There's nothing wrong with either one- you are asserting that "easy and simple" is wrong and something else is right. I disputed it because it is an opinion, not an indisputable fact. You then proceeded to cite various games by SE and others, and pointed out how the deep, difficult games sold better. I disputed this as well, because there was a lot more to the success of those games than simply them being tough. The whole reason I took issue with what you said is because you took an opinion and framed it as a fact.

going back to the quote, you said I "only focused on the 'easy' part of your statement." Well, there is only one other part to the statement, and that is "simple." And frankly, that has a largely similar meaning to "easy." So I'm not sure what else there is to "focus on" here.

[Dihlyte]

I'm only going to do this one time, just for you, and that is it.


You say that, but you make arguments. And I don't mean the fighting kind, I mean the making a case for something kind. If you make a case for something and I feel it's not well supported, well, I'm going to challenge it. It's not a matter of hostility, it's just good and proper discussion.

You didn't understand what I meant yet again. What I mean, is i'm not going to sit and debate you. I'm not going to segment your comments, like you do mine, and try to make points to the segmented comments to argue the little points, when we're completely ignoring the overarching theme of the thread, or have any real productive discussion. This right here is 100% unproductive in terms of feedback for Square-Enix. They aren't going to read these types of comments, because they are not even on the topic of FFXI at all. This is literally "you just arguing" which is what I mean. These comments have no value. The only reason i'm doing this is to show you what I mean as to why people don't like to engage you, and the only time they do, its to do this, and it goes on for far too long, and it completely derails any discussion being had. I really don't know why you can't see this, and why you insist and persist in these types of responses.

As for my statement, it is very well supported. If you need information, which you likely don't you will read the rest of my statement that will be directed at Square-Enix at you. Because honestly the only thing I learned from your comments so far, is that the person at SE has a chance of not understanding me, so after I'm done responding to you, i'm going to restate my comment to further cement my statement in a more understandable way for the Square-Enix representative.




It doesn't automatically make it flawed, but I can certainly give reasons why I think it does make it flawed. There's a difference, and I'm not sure if you're just being obtuse or actually don't see the difference.

Except you didn't give reasoning as to why you felt the way you did. At least not in response to my statement. Because again, you completely disregarded the other very important other half. Of which I stressed numerous times in my previous comment, and you again completely choose not to respond to or acknowledge. If you want to make a counter statement, it must be in line with the original comment. You're responding to a phantom comment. The fact that this behavior is so common really baffles me. Like there is no internet trophy, you aren't winning anything. Anyone who actually grasps the concepts being discussed won't appreciate these types of comments. The problem is so many people just choose a side on a topic, and know little to nothing of either side.

I'll quote someone else here, that is the best quote, but I'm not sure its going to help at this point because you're showing me you're not really here to learn but to just do whatever this is here. But regardless, here is the quote.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion...

-John Stuart Mill



I always consider what people say, and I always respond with reasoning and civility. I'm sorry if you've ever felt otherwise, but I never enter any discussion without considering the other point of view. But you have to understand that one can respect other's points of view without agreeing with them. Me disagreeing with you on something or finding flaws in the cases you make for something doesn't mean I didn't consider your point of view.


Except you did not consider what I said, because I clearly said "RPG's should not be simple and easy." and you completely disregarded the simple aspect of the statement 100%. You didn't even make a hint of it. In this comment right here, you also 100% completely disregarded the other half of my statement, that I prefer to respond to people who give replies that are not only civil but also reasonable and comprehensive. You're really not giving anything reasonable or comprehensive. I can appreciate that you remain civil, but you're not actually replying with anything that has real value. You're just saying "You're making statements and I'm refuting them" but that in itself is not a refute. You're just basically saying you're typing words.

I can honestly give a much better reponse than you did, and I will do that now for you, so you can hopefully better understand what I mean.

Me: RPG"s should not be simple and easy.

Response: While I understand your sentiment that RPG's should not be simple and easy, so that it sets them apart from other genres, and other forms of entertainment such as TV shows and movies, which are actual perfect examples of something that is simple and easy to enjoy, I do not agree that RPG's should be more challenging and complex. RPG's that are more challenging and complex alienates a group of individuals that have disabilities, as well as people who may have limited play time, or cannot devote their entire attention and focus onto a game, as they may have restricted free time, and that free time could become segmented. An example of this is a parent. Perhaps they have 3 hours to game every night, but during that time, they might have to pause during their session to prepare dinner, or perhaps one of their children need attention during their session, which causes the individual to take their focus away from the game for a time. When RPG's are designed to require intense focus and attention, these types of gamers will likely not find such RPG's as you indicate to be enjoyable.

(Which is a far better response than what you gave. I'm sorry.)

Now, if I saw that comment I could respond with a proper reasoning and sound reply as to why I would like to stand on my ground.

Me: While I appreciate your concern with RPG"s not appealing to a specific audience, I do not feel RPG's are the type of game that should be targeting such an audience. I can very well see that in doing so, there is the potential of a loss of profits, but that is the very nature of the design of RPG's at its core. Going back to my previous statement about Pinapple and Anchovy pizza. The point of the pizza example was to show that when you create something that has a very high potential that the "majority" of people might not like you incur a situation where the people who do enjoy your "Pinapple and anchovy pizza" a whole lot, and are willing to pay a higher price to in a sense, "make up" for the lack of funds, but those very same individuals become much more loyal and devoted to your product. So while you're creating what is considered a "niche" product for a smaller group of people, you're creating something far more precious, interesting and appreciated by that group of individuals. When you build a company on this foundation, then turn arond and remove what makes your product unique and interesting to appeal to more people, then you are literally destorying what you created, losing your initial audience, and creating something eniterly different. This causes a stain on your reputation, and removes the product that many have come to love, from existence.


Now to me, that is proper discussion. What you're doing is "just arguing for the sake of arguing" because you didn't even take into account what I was saying in the first place. You completely changed it to something entirely different, and effectively were "arguing" with a phantom comment. I cannot even respond to your comment properly even if I wanted to, because it wasnt a response to mine at all in the first place. I very much would appreciate a real and proper disagreement, because that gives me the oppourtunity to learn from you, but right now all I feel like I'm learning is that responding to you is going to be entirely unproductive.



The whole point of a forum is do discuss and debate. If you won't participate in "arguments" (you used quotation marks), then you're in the wrong place. And again, when I use the word "arguments" I don't mean "fights," but rather making cases for positions. If you make a good case for something, I will back it. If you don't, I will certainly say why I think so.


I'm sorry to inform you, but the focus of the forums, is to leave feedback to Square-Enix. It is not a debate forum for people to argue. In fact, if you look at the forums, the English NA team doesnt even respond to us because this is all we do. Go look at the JP or even sometimes the French/Dutch forums. You can see their teams responding to the players much more frequently than the NA/English posters, because we are doing what you think is what should be happening here. Unproductive debating. This right here, what we're doing is not productive, and nothing something SE can respond to. If I'm telling you that I'm not even really able to or wanting to respond to this, then why do you think, when SE is literally avoiding the NA/English forums, that it's what SE wants? This is something that is completely beyond me. There is literal proof on the FFXI and FFXIV forums both, that this behavior is common, and SE wants no part of it.

Then on top of that proof, people are telling you that your responses are not productive, as well as frustrating to the point they are willing to risk getting banned, and you feel the need to report them.

How long do you expect people to sit and respond to you to the point they become frustrated, then you report them. I really don't see that as productive. People with varying opinions is very useful for not only the discussion, but also to Square-Enix. I personally appreciate a difference of opinion, but only when its presented as the example I gave above. Proper, sound, and on-topic, taking the original comment into account and responding based off that very comment.



I don't feel that I've ever been uncivil toward you in this thread. If you feel otherwise, I'd really appreciate you identifying what you felt was uncivil.



I never said or implied you did. I just was saying, it is what I expect from you or anyone else.


If you come on to a forum and post opinions about things, other people are going to respond with theirs, and why they agree or don't agree with yours. I'm not sure why this seems out of the ordinary to you.

It doesn't seem out of the ordinary. What I said was that its unproductive. This is unproductive, which is why I'm only going to do it once.




I focused on the entire statement- there wasn't much to it. you said RPGs should not be easy and simple. And while I realize that it is a blanket statement, it's still an opinion and I can still dispute it. It depends on the target audience. There are RPGs with difficulty and depth, and there are those that aren't. There's nothing wrong with either one- you are asserting that "easy and simple" is wrong and something else is right. I disputed it because it is an opinion, not an indisputable fact. You then proceeded to cite various games by SE and others, and pointed out how the deep, difficult games sold better. I disputed this as well, because there was a lot more to the success of those games than simply them being tough. The whole reason I took issue with what you said is because you took an opinion and framed it as a fact.


Except you didn't dispute it. You said RPG's are "role playing games' and while that might be the actual definition, it does not in anyway define the genre in terms of gameplay.

Most games today have more RPG gameplay elements than FF16 or FFXIV. Games like Halo, Fortnite, and Minecraft have more options and exploration and creativity than the two aforementioned SE games.

So based on just your comment, that in no way is reflective off my comment, what sets FFXIV and FF16 apart from any other game, and aligns them with the RPG genre with games like Baulders Gate 3 or any other proper RPG?

If RPG's are as you say, "just role playing games" then why isnt Tomb Raider considered a Role playing game? Why isn't Mortal Kombat a Role playing game? What sets a game apart from another in the modern world where so many games have a character and a story you follow with said character?

If gameplay is insignificant within the RPG genre, then effectively you're saying all games, and no games are now RPG's. I'm sorry, there is no real reasoning there at all.



going back to the quote, you said I "only focused on the 'easy' part of your statement." Well, there is only one other part to the statement, and that is "simple." And frankly, that has a largely similar meaning to "easy." So I'm not sure what else there is to "focus on" here.


Simple and easy are two very different things in the gaming world.

Super Mario bros on the nintendo is simple, but defeating the entire game in 4-5 minutes is not easy (the world record).

The beginning battles of Final Fantasy Tactics are easy but certainly not simple.



RPG's in design should not be simple *and* easy.

RPG's are a genre, in their nature in terms of gameplay are much more expansive, and integrated than typical entertainment.







To further outline:

TV shows are simple, short forms of entertainment.

Movies are simple, and longer forms of entertainment.

Side-Scrolling games are slightly more engaging forms of entertainment and can vary based on player intent in terms of time invested.

Fighting games are more complex in nature, but can offer a different style of entertainment and levels of engagement not found in side-scrolling games, due to their more competitive nature of design.

Action games offer an even more deeper level of game design over the previously mentioned games, and offer another level of time investment over more simple games.

RPG"s are the highest of both complexity and time investment, and people who would naturally gravitate to this genre expect a deeper and more time investing style of gameplay.

Turning RPG"s into simpler action games, or low time-investment games, takes away from the very aspect RPG gamers are seeking in a form of entertainment.

Final Fantasy I through FFXI all had a very formulatic nature in their design, and FFXII, or more specifically FFXIII and beyond has greatly deviated from this style which each new entry straying further and further from what defines Final Fantasy as a franchise.

Saying "Final Fantasy can be anything SE wants it to be" is not a wrong statement, but if Square-Enix wants to retain their current fans, and add new fans to that already established playerbase, then naturally they would seek to adhere to what built their company to where it is today.

If SE no longer wishes to make RPG games, and instead wants to try to "Make more money" and make "more popular games" such as action games, or other game genres they find more profitable, then they risk losing their entire fanbase, in hopes of establishing a new one, but this is a double risk, as the older fans will no longer support the company and will spread bad news about the company. So not only will SE have to re-establish their fan base with a brand new subset, they will have to grow within a community of gamers that have been left with a foul taste in their mouth warning new gamers of the said company/franchise is not loyal to their fanbase and willing to abandon them at any time for something entirely different than what they have come to expect from them.

[Dihlyte]

To Square-Enix.

Final Fantasy as a franchise, and Final Fantasy XI has come to stand as a more engaging, challenging, mysterious, and interesting franchise.

FFI through FFXI, and to some degree FFXII all have a lot more in common than FFXIII, FFXIV, FFXV, and FF16 have in common.


Fans of your series have come to expect what is presented in FFI through FFXI.

Most of the fans of FFI through FFXI are gamers who do have more time, who do want to explore, find secrets, discover hidden treasure, venture off the beaten path to find something new and mysterious.

Flashy games, easy games, simple games, may all sell well, but traditionally that is not what Final Fantasy, and most certainly not what FFXI stands for.

If you want to ignore all your fans that you've spent over 2 decades building a relationship with, to chase after something that you have no certainty will pan out, you most certainly can do that. Do not be surprised if you lose a majority of your existing fans, and fail to re-establish a new fanbase, due to the nature of your company choosing to become unrooted, and un-loyal to your previously established fanbase, because news of your unwillingness to remain rooted and loyal will spread.


RPG fans want to be engaged, want to be challenged, and want to discover mystery.

Money can be had with this style of gameplay. Baulders Gate 3 is a turn based in-depth RPG that sold over 10 million units. There is a profit there.

FFXI was the most profitable Final Fantasy until 2021, you yourself know there is profit there.


FFXI did not even have the chance to take off as well as FFXIV did, because the initial price to play FFXI was over triple digits (PS2, PS2 hard drive, FFXI and FFXI subscription) over 20 years ago, which was a steep price.

Not to mention the players who did sign up, were severely restricted on what they could do and not do in a party or solo. A well balanced RPG game will offer an array of gameplay styles. The main story should offer a more simple, but still engaging experience, that can and should be soloable, but also offer the opportunity to party up for less enabled gamers, so their friends and family can help them progress, including story missions and story battles. (Something not offerend in FFXIV as it forces you to go solo very often.) It will also offer extremely difficult and complex side content, much like Odyssey, and other more interesting, and challenging battles and content typically found in FFXI..

The original FFVII on PS1 struck this perfect balance. This is why it was so successful. It offered everything everyone wanted from a RPG.

The story was easy enough to complete for the typical gamer, but offered challenges, puzzles, and meaningful side content to create ultimate weapons, as well as offered secrets, and hard to discover content and treasures all over the world.


FFVII remake did not even come close to reaching its potential for being so simple, and segmented.

Square-Enix you must see that since FFXIV Shadowbringers, FF16, and FFVII-Remake you have the worst sales you've seen in Final Fantasy history, and the worst reputation you've had since you released FFI on Nintendo. It is not a mystery that you're trying to abandon your fanbase in hopes to re-establish yourself in a different genre. You need to "rip off the band-aid" and fully cancel Final Fantasy if you do not enjoy making RPG's or you need to return to your roots, and create mysterious, engaging, challenging RPG's like you once did.

Remaking FFXI into a flashy, generic theme park video game, I do not believe will be the route you should take.

If FFXI players, or even modern gamers that have tried and quit FFXIV (you and I both know that is in the 10's of millions) wanted what FFXIV offers, then that is what they would be playing, FFXIV, but they are not. Because that is not what they are looking for.


Thank you for your time.

[Zenion]

I just... I have to step in here right quick and set everybody straight on something.

Y'all know what the single most successful RPG franchise of all time is? I'll give you a hint, it's got terrible graphics for whatever generation it appears in, a basic rock-paper-scissors battle system that gives the player an astounding four options per turn, and a story that can generously be described as "there" - but somehow it became the very best, like no-one ever was.

I dunno, maybe the secret sauce isn't challenge, graphics, or story?

[Dihlyte]

I just... I have to step in here right quick and set everybody straight on something.

Y'all know what the single most successful RPG franchise of all time is? I'll give you a hint, it's got terrible graphics for whatever generation it appears in, a basic rock-paper-scissors battle system that gives the player an astounding four options per turn, and a story that can generously be described as "there" - but somehow it became the very best, like no-one ever was.

I dunno, maybe the secret sauce isn't challenge, graphics, or story?

I’m genuinely not sure which game you're referring to, but if you’re responding to the discussion regarding “simple and easy” comments, then let me say, me saying "RPG’s should not be simple and easy" doesn’t translate into “RPG’s have to be difficult and complex.”


What it means, is what I said, within the context of this thread.

This thread of which is in regards to SE potentially remaking or remastering FFXI.

Of which my stance, is turning FFXI into a theme park game like FFXIV, doesn’t help anyone, as we literally already have a theme park Final Fantasy game, in the form of FFXIV.


The reason FFXI still stands today, is because it is different from FFXIV, and the people that want the gameplay FFXI offers.

Taking that gameplay away, to offer something else is risky.

Taking that gameplay to offer something that already exists (FFXIV clone) is pointless.

[Zenion]

I was referring to Pokemon, fourth-highest selling video game franchise, the largest intellectual property in the world. And undeniably part of the RPG genre, so like... any discussion of what, in a general sense, makes a good RPG should probably look at that because the money says that's the one to beat.

As far as changing FFXI's gameplay though... I mean, what we have now is good, yeah. I wouldn't want to see a version without skillchains and magic bursts - arguably I'd say they should be made more enticing to players in a remake. Bosses telegraphing their moves more wouldn't make the game easier so much as make it more playable. Gear swapping, which is at the heart of how we play FFXI now, is integral to the player experience but not to the play experience - a good remake would let you map sets of gear to specific weaponskills, job abilities, and actions and just swap in automatically without needing to concentrate on hitting the right macros at the right time (I still remember back in the day when I would hit, no word of a lie, ten macros to use a blood pact - that's not nearly as fun as just building the set and having it ready when you need it.)

Quests and missions... those need a lot of work. I know Mindartia better than I know the county I physically live in, but I'd never figure out what half of the older ones want without a guide. If that's the kind of challenge some old-timers want, that's fine, but for everyone else there should be some kind of help system available without having to rely on our crumbling wiki infrastructure.

Changes that make gameplay feel more active might not be a bad thing. Maybe a risk/reward tradeoff where you can turn off normal auto-attacks in favor of some kind of timing challenge to get -30% to +30% damage and/or TP - or maybe even trade damage for TP gain depending on if you hit early or late. Even in something that's designed around being "turn-based" it sometimes feels like there's not enough time to stop and think about what you're doing anyway (if it's not on a macro it's not an option) so why pretend it's a slow-paced game?

Zones absolutely need to stay the same or even be expanded - yes, there is a lot of open area that isn't "useful", but that makes Vana'diel feel like a world. I'm still finding new places and sights that I just never really noticed before; something that rewards sight-seeing might actually be a nice addition. If this is the point you're getting at with the "theme park" point, yeah, I whole-heartedly agree. Misareaux Coast is redundant, Sanctuary of Zi'tah is mostly wasted space, and we like the world because it has places like that, not in spite of it. What was it, Final Fantasy XIII that people tore to utter shreds for being a series of linear corridors? Nobody wants that. Even outside Final Fantasy, looking at Pokemon as a very successful example... the most recent games went open-world and that's like the one thing fans really like about them, after the painfully linear previous generation. Exploration is a good option to have. Let the players worry about how to most efficiently ignore all that lovely terrain, don't just bin it preemptively.

I think I might actually like to see FFXI get the A Realm Reborn treatment, now that I think of it: Our Vana'diel is already an alternate bubble reality anyway, why not give FFXI Remake players a different version to play in, where... I don't know, Bahamut scourged the land or the Shadow Lord was never defeated or any of the other disasters that were averted in this timeline happened, and then after some time in that version of the world they get to visit the one we have now, recreated in most of its glory? That would make a great excuse to purge some content that nobody will miss - there are so, so many old quests that nobody will ever do because not even the scraps of story they can provide - if any - are worth the trouble. Maybe you start the player off with a narrow job selection - one or two - and the original six are unlocked on the first visit to preserved Vana'diel.

Sorry, I'm all over the place here, but I'm honestly not sure what I'm supposed to be focusing on here to provide a counterpoint to the whole... thing... that has been the discussion so far. Very "too long didn't read" and the debate has been boiled down to just a couple of talking points. I think my point was supposed to be that there's a lot of room to simplify and adapt things without losing the essence of the game, and there are definitely ways it can be made easier for new players to get into without making it boring for returning players. If we want a remaster or remake to have a chance, it absolutely can not appeal to just the FFXI veterans, we need new blood in the game both to justify investment in a new version and... well just in general, honestly.

[Irimi]

Sadly, I do not think it would be feasible in today's market. The core base is aging.

From a business perspective the game itself is not designed to retain newer or returning players that haven't already established themselves. Suffice to say most gaming today is quick and short. FFXI's main issue is time. Most players that spend do not have 9hr's a day to play as they did back in Era. I know the biggest reason i could not get friends to play cited was they didn't want to invest the time the game demands, and from what i have seen the developers do not want to fix the core problems with Retail XI. The game makes most korean MMO's tame.
What FFXIV did right that XI continues to do wrong comes down to one thing accessability. FFXIV makes it so you can achieve things in a reasonable time. FFXI in endgame tends to bottleneck certain area's (e.x. Voidwatch, Mythic.) Newer players will run into a sheer cliff/mountain

Do not mistake, I think the grind is fine. Aspects of the game just leads ripe to people just running into burnout.

Remake would be hard without changing the core aspect of the grind. REMA would have to be reworked from the ground up. After all, even I am hitting my limit while trying to farm the 100M gil I need just to complete Empy dagger. I am looking at other jobs to and just shaking my head.

I love XI, even so much more than XIV, I was disappointed when the Remake got cancelled. SE would have to find a happy medium for the old people we have become and new youth. I would hope there is a future chance for it, but not sure without them making drastic changes to retail. Honestly, I think they should of worked to re-release it back to consoles to revitalize the game.

[Dihlyte]

Honestly, personally, the only things I would change.

1.) Fix the game so it’s more playable.

-Gamepad useable without needing to be plugged in.

-Fix the camera so it doesn’t bounce off the walls.

2.) Fix the game so that trusts and enemies do not “get inside” of the player so that you can always “see” the enemy to perform a weapon skill. (And trusts don’t sit and spin on top of your character.)


3.) Make the UI 100% customizable.

-Everything needs an option to be turned off and can auto-hide.

-Damage numbers should be able to be adjusted so you only see your numbers popping up, including auto-attacks.

-Allow me to turn off any “indicators” or “telegraphs” as well as “New Challenge” text, and sound, and revert it to the chat log only. Also allow me to turn off the glowing stuff on the floor for quest markers. (All of this stuff is okay for a person that is brand new to video games, but they are a major eye sore to me and 100% unnecessary.)


4.) Maybe (big maybe) include just a proper quest journal to keep track of where I am in a quest.

5.) An option to toggle which NPC’s offer quests, and having a quest marker. Constantly seeing a quest over a NPC’s head is also a major eye sore. But knowing which ones could be useful to everyone.

6.) Fix enemy “can’t draw weapon to attack” animation lock.

-This doesn’t really “bother” me, but it would be nice if when enemies are attacking you, you can at least always draw your weapon without having animation lock. It’s simple enough to draw your weapon while still moving then stop and draw quick before you’re overwhelmed (how I currently deal with this issue) but learning that took some time, and it is kind of silly you get locked at all from drawing your weapon.

7.) Add a crafters hall.

-A place where you can access all crafters guild items, ephemeral moogle, Mog garden monster shop, and Auction house so crafters have a central place to craft.


I think that’s it.


I enjoy everything else about the game.

I enjoy the massive REMA grinds, I appreciate how not everyone has one, I appreciate literally everything else about this game, and it’s why I enjoy it so much.

I don’t actually think they are doing a remaster or remake, just saying why I like this game over what else is offered in the current world.

If I wanted to play other “not FFXI” games I would, but I don’t cause FFXI is almost exactly what I’m looking for in a game. It’s nearly perfect.

[Zenion]

Can we add the wheeling monster issue to that? If I'm engaged, auto-attacking, and locked on to a monster, and actively trying to move to face it, it shouldn't be possible for it to constantly shift in such a way that I am never able to actually attack it. Yes, that's mostly a problem with larger crowds of monsters, but those are a thing which players will potentially deal with in the game as it is presently played. Fix monster AI so they settle in place and don't make constant 1-yalm movements just to mess with auto-attack and weaponskills, or make area of effect weaponskills not require line of sight, or let the player automatically be faced toward a target that moves less than ten degrees out of their field of vision.

Minimaps would be nice too. Sure, if we want to stop, open the menu, then open up the map screen, and find the indicator showing where we are on that map, then we're able to look up where we are in a zone, but... if that information is already available to us, maybe it wouldn't be game-breaking to be able to just have it in a convenient place without having to either stop running or blindly blunder into danger by auto-running while blind?

Also, you know what phrase should be dead and buried after a remake? "PS2 limitations." Macros should be allowed to be longer than seven lines. Much longer. Fifty lines with tenth of a second wait increments instead full second - that's three full sets of gear and two actual commands with precise timing, because that is exactly what is necessary to utilize blood pact delay and quick magic equipment effectively; equipsets in their current form don't cut it. More than eight mailbox slots. Wider auto-translate dictionary. More auction slots.

Synergy 110.

[Dihlyte]

Can we add the wheeling monster issue to that? If I'm engaged, auto-attacking, and locked on to a monster, and actively trying to move to face it, it shouldn't be possible for it to constantly shift in such a way that I am never able to actually attack it. Yes, that's mostly a problem with larger crowds of monsters, but those are a thing which players will potentially deal with in the game as it is presently played. Fix monster AI so they settle in place and don't make constant 1-yalm movements just to mess with auto-attack and weaponskills, or make area of effect weaponskills not require line of sight, or let the player automatically be faced toward a target that moves less than ten degrees out of their field of vision.

Minimaps would be nice too. Sure, if we want to stop, open the menu, then open up the map screen, and find the indicator showing where we are on that map, then we're able to look up where we are in a zone, but... if that information is already available to us, maybe it wouldn't be game-breaking to be able to just have it in a convenient place without having to either stop running or blindly blunder into danger by auto-running while blind?

Also, you know what phrase should be dead and buried after a remake? "PS2 limitations." Macros should be allowed to be longer than seven lines. Much longer. Fifty lines with tenth of a second wait increments instead full second - that's three full sets of gear and two actual commands with precise timing, because that is exactly what is necessary to utilize blood pact delay and quick magic equipment effectively; equipsets in their current form don't cut it. More than eight mailbox slots. Wider auto-translate dictionary. More auction slots.

Synergy 110.


I’m for it.

The first one you listed was in my list.


As for the mini-map, they are actually adding an option to open the menu with a single button, so that’s an improvement.

I don’t mind either way if there is a mini-map. The map works just the same. A mini-map is just redundancy at that point. (In my opinion.)

[Stuzey]

Kind of changing topic, but also on topic... Would you sooner see the game continue on for another 10+ years, as it is and do you see youself playing it, all this time, or would you sooner they introduced an end to vana'diel story which would lead to game ending?

I know rhapsodies was supposed to be the end, but the game continues, I also understand this thread is mostly talking about improvements we would like to see.

The danger of just continuing with minimal investment is that it all fizzles out, although the reverse could be, the final storyline could bring a lot of players back, but then it all ends...... Unless it doesn't.....

[Dragoy]

This one slithered slightly sizeable as well. :]

Probably even forgot some parts I wanted to reply to... o whell!


I'm sorry to inform you, but the focus of the forums, is to leave feedback to Square-Enix. It is not a debate forum for people to argue. In fact, if you look at the forums, the English NA team doesnt even respond to us because this is all we do. Go look at the JP or even sometimes the French/Dutch forums. You can see their teams responding to the players much more frequently than the NA/English posters, because we are doing what you think is what should be happening here. Unproductive debating. This right here, what we're doing is not productive, and nothing something SE can respond to. If I'm telling you that I'm not even really able to or wanting to respond to this, then why do you think, when SE is literally avoiding the NA/English forums, that it's what SE wants? This is something that is completely beyond me. There is literal proof on the FFXI and FFXIV forums both, that this behavior is common, and SE wants no part of it.

Well, going by Welcome to Forum: General Discussion! [1]:


The purpose of this forum is for players to discuss various topics on FINAL FANTASY XI with other players.

As for the forums in general, here's a quote from Welcome to the official FINAL FANTASY XI forums! [2]:


These forums are a venue for players of FINAL FANTASY XI to communicate with each other and submit feedback on the game, as well as being a centralized location for the development and operations teams to gather user suggestions concerning current and future game content.

I remember they would set up specific threads to gather feedback on specific topics. I don't remember that they really picked anything up from any other topics back then.

At some point, or maybe it did happen from around the start, we had community representatives gather posts and submit them to the developers (or so the legend says).

That stopped happening, or at least we got no confirmation otherwise.

Then they did the "digest" videos for the non-Japanese speaking crowd in addition to the Japanese crowd, and would even reply to posts in the digest threads.

The replies on those also stopped happening, and eventually, so did the digests. (That really was a nice thing of them to do, and I might imagine it wasn't easy to get permission for the time used for them.)

Getting back to this day, I guess you were referring to the German/French forums (I don't think Dutch was ever a thing here), and further, the FF14 side, because here they archived those parts of the forums back in 2014, when the language support for those ended happening for the game client.

I don't think them not posting here has anything to do with the content of our posts, but rather that they are no longer being allowed to do so on their paid time (and/or they are no longer emplyed for doing that).


Action games offer an even more deeper level of game design over the previously mentioned games, and offer another level of time investment over more simple games.

RPG"s are the highest of both complexity and time investment, and people who would naturally gravitate to this genre expect a deeper and more time investing style of gameplay.

Turning RPG"s into simpler action games, or low time-investment games, takes away from the very aspect RPG gamers are seeking in a form of entertainment.
I suppose this is at least in part why people came up with categories such as Action RPG, which the FF7 remake definitely is more like than an RPG (not my thing even though FFV7 is one of my first and favourite RPGs on systems that are not the Commodore 64).


Honestly, personally, the only things I would change.

1.) Fix the game so it’s more playable.

-Gamepad useable without needing to be plugged in.
Gamepads don't work wireless? I only recently got one that can do that, but haven't actually tried it wireless yet (a DualShock 4, which I'm not liking as much as my DualShock 2 from ~20 years ago which is finally starting to literally /show/ wear... but the DS4 is actually making my hands hurt...). That said, I also play on Linux so things might not be 1 to 1 in this regard. Will test it soon regardless.


-Fix the camera so it doesn’t bounce off the walls.
Curious about this one. What exactly do you mean by bouncing off the walls?

Like, if you stand close to a wall, turn the camera, and it gets closer to you?

If yes, I think that would be very difficult to change. If you wanted the camera to stay were it is, it would need to quite literally go through the walls, and then you would see the void that is behind the scenes... I think. You've probably had a glimpse of that when your camera is close enough to a wall in certain angles.


2.) Fix the game so that trusts and enemies do not “get inside” of the player so that you can always “see” the enemy to perform a weapon skill. (And trusts don’t sit and spin on top of your character.)
I kind of like the fact that we actually need to face the enemy... the thing I don't like is how the lag I have to the servers can make it... well, something I need to take into account for when I do things. ^^;


3.) Make the UI 100% customizable.

-Everything needs an option to be turned off and can auto-hide.

-Damage numbers should be able to be adjusted so you only see your numbers popping up, including auto-attacks.
Is it not already possible to hide them via Chat Filters?

I did not test just now, but as far as I can remember, and look at the list of them, it should be doable? Maybe I am missing something.

On that note, it would be nice to be able to pick more colours for more different things to separate them more from each other.


-Allow me to turn off any “indicators” or “telegraphs” as well as “New Challenge” text, and sound, and revert it to the chat log only. Also allow me to turn off the glowing stuff on the floor for quest markers. (All of this stuff is okay for a person that is brand new to video games, but they are a major eye sore to me and 100% unnecessary.)
I always found that "New Challenge" weird, and... unnecessary. On our face. Doesn't feel like FFXI.

For the shiny spots, I think I kind of appreaciate them for logging and mining and harvesting points for example.

Unnecessary, perhaps, but I'm not sure I'd turn them off. Would not say no for the option to be there either though!

Also, if only they did not cancel the New User Interface [3] project... I think the person working on it got moved to FF14?

I played using it on the test server, and it was quite fun, even if very incomplete at the time.


6.) Fix enemy “can’t draw weapon to attack” animation lock.

-This doesn’t really “bother” me, but it would be nice if when enemies are attacking you, you can at least always draw your weapon without having animation lock. It’s simple enough to draw your weapon while still moving then stop and draw quick before you’re overwhelmed (how I currently deal with this issue) but learning that took some time, and it is kind of silly you get locked at all from drawing your weapon.
Is this the issue where you start combat, but your character just stands still while getting bombarded?

I believe you actually do draw your weapon, but since you can't move, if you are not facing the enemy, you can't attack so it seems like you did not draw the weapon yet, and... to some extent, you did not... but! I've noticed that if I am facing the enemy, and this happens, I do claim the enemy and they will take damage from my attacks, even though to me it seems I have not drawn the weapon yet, and can not move.

It's almost like my game client did not get that information yet, however, since I can't use any weapon skills for example.

This one really is quite annoying, detrimental even, and I hope they can put some time into fixing it up.


7.) Add a crafters hall.

-A place where you can access all crafters guild items, ephemeral moogle, Mog garden monster shop, and Auction house so crafters have a central place to craft.
Little unsure if I'd like this one. I mean, It would be super convenient, and I would not have to use it, so I wouldn't be against it either. :]


Can we add the wheeling monster issue to that? If I'm engaged, auto-attacking, and locked on to a monster, and actively trying to move to face it, it shouldn't be possible for it to constantly shift in such a way that I am never able to actually attack it.
This one is probably made a lot worse due to the lag we play with.

I wonder if people in Japan are able to attack enemies while running behind them... without running ahead of them. I watch a lot of Japanese streamers but haven't been able to compare, as far as I remember... but I do also play with some, so perhaps I should maybe test it out one of these days and/or nights!

There's also that weird targeting issue that... I don't think was always happening. Have a lot of enemies in front of you, and one, perhaps a black mage further ahead, and your auto-target picks that one next. I saw it mentioned somewhere around here some time ago, and I though it did not work that way, but I have seen it a lot recently...

(I do pick black mages down first so that was a bad example, but you know...)

Oh, one very nice thing would be having alter egos actually count as party members when it comes to auto-target. That is, if an alter ego has the attention of an enemy while you finish up with another, you should not just call it quits right there and then. I've been meaning to create a stand-alone thread for that request for some ages past, but someone got to it just before I did [4].

I do prefer individual threads for feature and other requests, just like I do prefer one bug report per issue, but I do like this one for the discussion. :]

1. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/117 - Welcome to Forum: General Discussion!
2. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/67 - Welcome to the official FINAL FANTASY XI forums!
3. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/36908 - [dev1156] New User Interface
4. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/61772 - A needed addition for trust aggro

[Alhanelem]

I just... I have to step in here right quick and set everybody straight on something.

Y'all know what the single most successful RPG franchise of all time is? I'll give you a hint, it's got terrible graphics for whatever generation it appears in, a basic rock-paper-scissors battle system that gives the player an astounding four options per turn, and a story that can generously be described as "there" - but somehow it became the very best, like no-one ever was.

I dunno, maybe the secret sauce isn't challenge, graphics, or story?
That mystery game has a lot more depth than your description conveys, even though there is some accuracy to it.

[Alhanelem]

I'm sorry to inform you, but the focus of the forums, is to leave feedback to Square-Enix.While you certainly can leave feedback on these forums, it in fact is NOT the primary focus. The focus is to give players a place to talk about the game to ANY end. Not just feedback.

If Square Enix only intended the forums to be for feedback, they would have just used an email box or survey form instead.

By posting here you are inviting anyone else who has an account for the game to respond to your comments, whether you intended them only as feedback for SE or not. Again, if it was only for feedback, there would be no need to see and reply to other people's feedback, it would just be sent directly to SE. This forum section itself is called "General Discussion," not "Game Feedback." It is for discussing things- it is in the name. The fact that a community rep sees feedback here and reports it doesn't mean discussion isn't the focus lol.

[Zenion]

That mystery game has a lot more depth than your description conveys, even though there is some accuracy to it.

Sure, there's a whole lot of still that a player can choose to do with it that isn't strictly necessary to the core game experience. I think that's what makes it work - it's as deep as you want it to be, because the top layer is ridiculously simple and the complexity is buried a little under the surface.

Which is kind of the opposite of how FFXI works. Here, you've got all kinds of choices up front, lots of stuff you could do... but experienced players know that there is in fact one specific right choice in almost any given situation, and anything beyond that is largely ignored.

I'd try and do some kind of compare-and-contrast analysis and bring it back to what might make a better remake experience, but I'm freakin' tired right now. I wanted to be settling in to sleep like three hours ago but the guild point item of the day is Sea Zombies and apparently the age of piracy has come to an abrupt end. This is something that could really use some work: respect for the players' time. Don't make us wait 15 minutes for a chance of being able to do an activity, over and over again; offer some kind of direct path to being able to take the necessary action. Don't lock a fish behind a four times an hour something percent chance to attempt to fish for it and then say "that, we need you to bring us that, you have 24 hours."

[Dihlyte]

While you certainly can leave feedback on these forums, it in fact is NOT the primary focus.


Well, going by Welcome to Forum: General Discussion! [1]:


The purpose of this forum is for players to discuss various topics on FINAL FANTASY XI with other players.

As for the forums in general, here's a quote from Welcome to the official FINAL FANTASY XI forums! [2]:

I personally choose not to argue. Sorry.

You're more then welcome to disagree, and make your points, but this will be the end of me responding in terms or appearing to argue.

I welcome you to reply with how ever you like, as much as you like, but I personally will not be participating in further arguing. I don't enjoy it and find it unproductive.



Gamepads don't work wireless?

Not on windows PC without 3rd party software. I mean they do work, but they have input lag. So you need to turn them off, and connect them with a wire for it to work properly.



Curious about this one. What exactly do you mean by bouncing off the walls?

Like, if you stand close to a wall, turn the camera, and it gets closer to you?


When you stand near a wall your camera just doesnt get closer. Your camera will actually persistently bounce off the wall continuously so that its constantly zooming in and out on its own in a very erratic manner. I'm sure you've see this.



I kind of like the fact that we actually need to face the enemy... the thing I don't like is how the lag I have to the servers can make it... well, something I need to take into account for when I do things. ^^;

I wasn't referring to the need to face the enemy. I was referring to when you pull multiple enemies and the one you're targeting gets so close to you that it keeps going "out of view" partially behind you so that your character is unable to attack. The enemies will move around constantly which results in you unable to perform any weapon skills. Its a very awkward experience. Even if you constantly move backwards the game still registers the enemy behind you even if its in front of you visually. It is very strange.

It only happens when you pull multiple mobs. It just would be a nice fix if they couldn't do that. Same with trusts, they get "inside" your character and constantly spin around on top of your character and its very odd.




Is it not already possible to hide them via Chat Filters?

I did not test just now, but as far as I can remember, and look at the list of them, it should be doable? Maybe I am missing something.

I'm not referring to chat filters.


For the shiny spots, I think I kind of appreaciate them for logging and mining and harvesting points for example.

I mean quest marker locations. Gathering locations are fine.



Is this the issue where you start combat, but your character just stands still while getting bombarded?

Yes. Regardless if you can move or not, this can result in death to many new players, and is really an unnecessary animation lock. I can personally circumvent this issue with practice, but it is odd, hurts new players, and unnecessary. (In my opinion of course.)

[Zenion]

When you stand near a wall your camera just doesnt get closer. Your camera will actually persistently bounce off the wall continuously so that its constantly zooming in and out on its own in a very erratic manner. I'm sure you've see this.

That one might be hard to fix; cameras in 3D space can be really tricky. Treat them as a physical object, and they can snag on things and do some really undesirable stuff - Sonic Adventure 2: Battle was awful for this, if you tried you could easily trap the camera and escape it entirely (and if you didn't try, it could still happen; the camera was the real villain of that game.) Don't treat them as a physical object, and they can clip into places they shouldn't, giving the player a glimpse into the void outside the game world (possibly with no idea how it happened.) You can clip the FFXI camera halfway into a lot of walls to get a taste of what that looks like.

What behavior would you consider acceptable? Should the camera lock in place when it hits a wall? Should it clip into the wall? Should it continue its motion in as close to a circle around the player as possible, knowing that this will result in some unwanted extreme closeups of the character model?

Serious question, I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I really want to hear what a good solution to this might look like.

[CrAZYVIC]

Square Enix has already announced that the game has entered "Maintenance Mode," meaning that the most we can expect are "Updates" for balancing the game, content, etc., which I will touch on later.

A remake is not viable, neither for the "Gamers" nor the "Company." The game would need to shift to an "Action-RPG" style like Monster Hunter World/Rise, Elden Ring, or Lies of P, because that's the META and what sells. It wouldn't have anything from FFXI except for the areas, characters, cities, and lore. However, it would have to be an entirely new game and "No," it couldn't be like FFXIV/WoW-Modern; having two FFXIVs would be too redundant.

A remaster could be viable, but the problem would be how to implement it in a way that would be profitable for the company and attract all the 40-something FFXI-Retail players.

Remember that in FFXI-RETAIL, using dgVoodoo and Windower, you can run it at 4K, 60 FPS, and "ULTRA" graphics quality. So, a graphical upgrade alone wouldn't be very appealing or engaging for us. Additionally, using gear-swap Lua, players essentially have a "Damn" bot that swaps their gear with minimal delay and is far superior to FFXI's macros. If the remaster doesn't support this, it would be even less attractive.

Here’s how I would implement the remaster:

Release it for PS5, SERIES-S, SERIES-X, Nintendo Switch 2, PC STEAM, EPIC GAMES, and Gamer-Mobiles, with cross-play, of course.

Completely programmed in DX12, with Nvidia DLSS, AMD FSR + Frame-Generation, and a corrected net code that can handle up to 5000-S/5000-R if needed. Don't worry; 95% of the time, you'll be at an average of 1000-S/1000-R.

Fix the JA-WS delay and the other 100 things with similar issues. Also, allow players to "Skip" cut-scenes since it's a remaster, and we've done the MSQ about 20 times at this point...

Finally, add EASY-ANTI-CHEAT, DENUVO, and FFXIV's anti-cheat system to reduce bots/cheats by 90%.

Additionally, "Buying-Gil" and "Selling-Gil" would result in a permanent ban on a single strike, to reduce RMT and let players govern the server's economy.

**The Servers**

All current servers would merge into just three: ASURA, ODIN, and BAHAMUTH. The
original game and your old character wouldn't be touched or moved.

Three versions of the game would be released:

1. Three LV75 CLASSIC servers up to WoTG, one in NA, EUR, and JP, for better game responsiveness. GEO and RUN would be released in this version.

2. Three servers, the same regions (NA, EUR, JP), LV99 Abyssea, VW, Neo-Dynamis, Legion, and SoA era, without "ILV," just like Seekers of Adoulin was initially released. The difficulty would be adjusted since there are no "ILV" items. The proc-system would be removed because it’s annoying and only nerdy fifty-year-old virgins like that "Red" or "Blue" proc stuff...

3. Three servers in NA, EUR, and JP, like FFXI-RETAIL is now, with QoL changes. For example, entering Odyssey-Sortie with 18 players, and some adjustments to ultimate weapons and jobs. This update would also apply to the "Old-Retail-Game."

This would be the way to properly launch a well-done Remaster for FFXI, with multiple versions of the game. The price of the Remaster would be $60 USD, and the subscription would be $15 USD base, with an additional $2 USD per character.

A cash shop would also be implemented with "Fantasia-Potion," "Mounts," and races from FFXIV such as Auras, Miqotes, Hyurs, Roes, Lalafells, and Vieras, as well as glamours, but these would be very Job-Specific and medieval to maintain the essence of FFXI. Nothing crazy like FFXIV.

[Dragoy]

I personally choose not to argue. Sorry.
I definitely wasn't going for that there, if that is what it seemed like. I was just commenting on the purpose of these forums. :]


Not on windows PC without 3rd party software. I mean they do work, but they have input lag. So you need to turn them off, and connect them with a wire for it to work properly.
Ah, yeah, suppose there will always be lag with them. Not sure there's anything that can be done on the FFXI side to help with that.


When you stand near a wall your camera just doesnt get closer. Your camera will actually persistently bounce off the wall continuously so that its constantly zooming in and out on its own in a very erratic manner. I'm sure you've see this.
Oh, yeah, that does indeed happen.

I suppose it should be possible to detect that the camera started going wild, and stop it, but can't say how complicated that would be since I haven't seen the code.


I wasn't referring to the need to face the enemy. I was referring to when you pull multiple enemies and the one you're targeting gets so close to you that it keeps going "out of view" partially behind you so that your character is unable to attack. The enemies will move around constantly which results in you unable to perform any weapon skills. Its a very awkward experience. Even if you constantly move backwards the game still registers the enemy behind you even if its in front of you visually. It is very strange.

It only happens when you pull multiple mobs. It just would be a nice fix if they couldn't do that. Same with trusts, they get "inside" your character and constantly spin around on top of your character and its very odd.
Right, seen that too. I suppose I instinctively "correct" for it, so I don't feel like it happens that much, but yeah, indeed, can be very confusing and annoying.


I'm not referring to chat filters.
Right, but they are connected to the visible numbers, for example filtering damage from party members should stop them from appearing for them.

[Alhanelem]

I personally choose not to argue. Sorry.You can choose to do whatever you like, but that doesn't stop anyone else from posting nor is there anything wrong with things other than feedback.



I welcome you to reply with how ever you like, as much as you like, but I personally will not be participating in further arguing. I don't enjoy it and find it unproductive.Sorry you feel that way, but civilized arguments rooted in logical propositions are absolutely productive. Again: argument doesn't mean fighting. it means supporting your position and trying to convince others of it. It isn't something that is done for fun, you aren't supposed to "enjoy" it, so it seems like you misunderstand the fundamental purpose of logical argument.

Arguments != fighting.

[Alhanelem]

I was referring to Pokemon, fourth-highest selling video game franchise, the largest intellectual property in the world. And undeniably part of the RPG genre, so like... any discussion of what, in a general sense, makes a good RPG should probably look at that because the money says that's the one to beat.

As far as changing FFXI's gameplay though... I mean, what we have now is good, yeah. I wouldn't want to see a version without skillchains and magic bursts - arguably I'd say they should be made more enticing to players in a remake. Bosses telegraphing their moves more wouldn't make the game easier so much as make it more playable. Gear swapping, which is at the heart of how we play FFXI now, is integral to the player experience but not to the play experience - a good remake would let you map sets of gear to specific weaponskills, job abilities, and actions and just swap in automatically without needing to concentrate on hitting the right macros at the right time (I still remember back in the day when I would hit, no word of a lie, ten macros to use a blood pact - that's not nearly as fun as just building the set and having it ready when you need it.)

Quests and missions... those need a lot of work. I know Mindartia better than I know the county I physically live in, but I'd never figure out what half of the older ones want without a guide. If that's the kind of challenge some old-timers want, that's fine, but for everyone else there should be some kind of help system available without having to rely on our crumbling wiki infrastructure.

I love most aspects of FFXI's combat system. If there was a remake, all I feel it needs is to be made more fluid and responsive. FFXI's movement and pervasive animation lock make things feel clunky compared to almost any game of any sort made today. We are all mostly fine with that because we grew up with it and are used to the jank inherent to it. But this would be a roadblock to almost anyone who isn't already playing FFXI now. Ditch the animation lock on most skills and spells, make things more responsive, and movement smoother. A lot of this is down to the servers only being in Japan. If we had local servers in a remake, that would help quite a lot by itself. Skillchains and bursts are one of the core things that makes combat in FFXI distinct from other games, as it encourages cooperation.

Also FFXI does have some very cryptic quests and missions that are almost impossible for a new user without referring to a guide ( Guide dang it! (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GuideDangIt) ). In a remake I'd like to see more information be available within the game itself. Adjust dialogue for quests so that it's easier to figure things out (I'm not asking for obvious quest markers like in FFXIV, but just making certain things a bit less cryptic- For example, some chapters of TVR start in different places from where the last mission ended, but there is ZERO information about where to go in-game. You either had to be around when it was releasd to know from the news, or read a guide).

[Zenion]

Also FFXI does have some very cryptic quests and missions that are almost impossible for a new user without referring to a guide ( Guide dang it! (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GuideDangIt) ).

Oh, are you the one user on TVTropes who knows FFXI still exists? I'd wondered how it was still getting mentioned as an example of stuff when, to most of the internet, the game's been dead and buried for over a decade.

Now, I know this is difficult, it gets into that undefinable "juiciness" factor of a game, but... what would a more fluid combat system look like, if it were to still feel like FFXI?

Animation lock is definitely a key thing - there are specific status effects which are intended to prevent the player from taking action, so just having things happen shouldn't do that; either allow player actions without running the animation, or give player animations highest priority to prevent loss of agency.

Streamlining combat menus would be good; I'd personally hate to see a move to all on-screen icons to click, but maybe having those as a supplement to the menus would be good? Typing out "/ma "flare ii" <bt>" in the heat of battle can be a bit much (go on, try doing it in under two seconds without any typos), and finding it in the menu is almost as bad; player-defined sub-groupings could speed things up (imagine how much faster being able to look up Magic > Fire > Flare II would be, for example.) Yes, I know, I know, we have macros for that, but those just become yet another menu to scroll through unless you pare your options down to the top twenty things you want to do; how many times have you been in the middle of a fight and realized you really need to use an ability or spell that you didn't think to put into your macros (perhaps because you needed room for dedicated gear swapping macros, for things like idle and refresh sets?)

I think maybe having a target queue would be good. Designate your current target, then tag, say, four or five more monsters that you will autotarget after that one is defeated. Action queue would be nifty too, line up spells or job abilities to use and have that visible somewhere; basically the same as throwing a few actions with <wait x> tokens between them into a macro, but visible somewhere and able to be modified on the fly.

Characters should always be facing the monster they're fighting unless the player decides they shouldn't be, that's a hill I'll readily die on. Lock-on should automatically face the character toward the monster they're locked onto, and if it's within melee range that should always be enough to attack it. Maybe have this only work within, say, 4 yalms of the target, so if there is an actual legitimate reason for a monster to move it's a bit more of a disruption.

Maybe add a three second delay before a character puts their weapons away, during which time if the player targets another monster they skip the draw weapons and engage animation? That's clunky and really slows the pace of large battles and it's kind of silly (imagine being surrounded by skeletons, defeating one, and brushing your hands off, putting your weapons away, and saying "well, glad that's over with.") Auto-engage sort of does that, if you're facing a monster that's already trying to fight you, but... I think we can do better.

Maybe make spellcasting more agile by giving spells a chance to be interrupted when you move, based on how far you go? Or make moving cancel the spell outright, rather than letting it run the whole casting time before being interrupted?

[Alhanelem]

Oh, are you the one user on TVTropes who knows FFXI still exists? I'd wondered how it was still getting mentioned as an example of stuff when, to most of the internet, the game's been dead and buried for over a decade.Aint me, I'm not an editor on tvtropes.

[Beastorizer]

https://massivelyop.com/2024/08/05/tencent-and-square-enix-are-reportedly-working-on-a-mobile-version-of-final-fantasy-xiv/

https://www.thegamer.com/nexon-square-enix-final-fantasy-11-cancelled/