No problem with merc'ing but Odyssey V25 RP merc'ing needs to STOP.

[Gwydion]

Hello SE, fellow FFXI players,
I personally do not have any problem people who like to merc content (sell wins, RP or clears to other players). However, there is a problem with the design of Odyssey. When a powerful team finally gains access to V25 and clears it, all 6 of these players can sell RP by using the following steps:

1.) V25 player invites 5 other players who need RP
2.) These 5 other players pay as much 1-3M for their spot in this party.
3.) The V25 player does 5% damage to the NM (say, Kalunga or Bumba) and after 15 minutes, every gains RP.

In general, I do not even have a problem with the steps above. The issue I have this:

Problem:
All 6 members of this powerful team are not incentivized help other players clear Odyssey V25 content, but to rather become 6 independent sellers of RP to people who are struggling to make the climb on their own or form a group!

Solution:
Create an incentive for players to team up. For each person who gets the clear for the first time, a personal drops similar to Dynamis Wave 1 boss, where players who do not have the clear, increase the size of the treasure pool.
Maybe this personal group could be a Primeval Brew for Odyssey? Sortie Gallimaufry bonus?


...I'm just at such a loss for words how this further segregates players. :(

[leia]

5% Cheese has to be Nerfed and it is ruining the experience.
Also they should implement you can't unlock armors if you did not clear pervious tiers.

[Sirmarki]

Hello SE, fellow FFXI players,
I personally do not have any problem people who like to merc content (sell wins, RP or clears to other players). However, there is a problem with the design of Odyssey.

You can't pick and choose what you think is suitable to merc or not, mercing is bad.. Full stop.

[Gwydion]

I don't think all merc'ing is bad. Mercing is fine if it's a 1 to 1 party gaining clear vs selling RP.

But, it's not OK when the 6-member party that earned the clear, now becomes 6 independent mercs/sellers of the content.

[Sp1cyryan]

I don't think all merc'ing is bad. Mercing is fine if it's a 1 to 1 party gaining clear vs selling RP.

But, it's not OK when the 6-member party that earned the clear, now becomes 6 independent mercs/sellers of the content.

You don't get to just pick and choose. Lol

[Zenion]

You can't make Odyssey bosses easier without people complaining. You can't make taking pickup party members worth doing without making the bosses easier. This is the essence of six-man content: You do it with a single static party, and to hell with everyone else because there is no room to change that party.

If you want to solve the mercing problem, make it so you can't earn RP from a fight if anyone in the group hasn't gotten that clear. Problem solved, now people aren't selling RP farming runs. Sure, the people who would have paid for them get nothing now, but that's fine, that's how the content is designed to be played: "screw you, got mine."

[Gwydion]

You can't make Odyssey bosses easier without people complaining. You can't make taking pickup party members worth doing without making the bosses easier. This is the essence of six-man content: You do it with a single static party, and to hell with everyone else because there is no room to change that party.

If you want to solve the mercing problem, make it so you can't earn RP from a fight if anyone in the group hasn't gotten that clear. Problem solved, now people aren't selling RP farming runs. Sure, the people who would have paid for them get nothing now, but that's fine, that's how the content is designed to be played: "screw you, got mine."

Yeah, I hate the "screw you, got mine" ....but it's everywhere these days.

[Immortal]

Yeah this was lame from day 1, take it out

[Eth]

Sorry if this is going off on a bit of a tangent, but I think lack of endgame alliance content is another factor that has harmed FFXI in recent years and lead to the decline of a culture of helping each other.

The old endgame was all alliance. Dynamis was multi-alliance. I know that people eventually figured out how to low-man everything, but early in the life of the game, you needed bodies to throw at endgame challenges. This encouraged helping. Back in 2005, people in an endgame shell helped me get sky access not because they were unselfish, but because they were selfish. They needed bodies. To do Northlands Dynamis, you needed bodies too, and that meant having to do city Dynamis wins for new members.

The now dominant 6-party content killed all of that. It has encouraged perma-statics who do Odyssey NMs and Sortie together. Linkshells still exist, but often, there is a clique of 6 people at the center of the linkshell, and {our party is full} for everyone else who joins and would like to get in on that. You got a pearl to an "endgame" ls, but you're still just a spectator to the successes of the central gang of 6 for Odyssey NMs or Sortie. Success in the new and final endgame all but requires starting such a static, or replacing someone else in an existing static.

If Sortie and Odyssey had been made alliance content with HP scaling like Geas Fete, it would have been healthier for the FFXI community.

[Gwydion]

Yeah, I personally think 6-man static content is killing linkshells. Every linkshell is now social + a queue of people waiting to ge into a static. :(

[Alhanelem]

I can't agree with that at all. But it's well known what my feeling on alliance content is. Alliance content originally was and should be something you do at periodic intervals planned in advance. multiple times a week to daily stuff generally should not be. Have 7 people? Rotate. Find more friends and make two groups. 18 man content is too much of a hassle to set up and do to be something done constantly. I also generally don't approve of content allowing alliances but not actually needing them- A bunch of people leeching when just a single party can clear the content isn't my idea of fun and excitement, nor does it represent the challenging content that something for alliances should be. If it's not hard, it's just a loot pinata and that just isn't really that much fun.

I understand the consternation that the advocates of alliance content are expressing, but there are various ways around the issue.

The old endgame was all alliance. Dynamis was multi-alliance.First, as previously noted: Content like old dynamis back in the day, with 30+ people participating, was a massive ordeal just to set up. Not to mention the whole reserving the area thing with some servers even forming server-wide schedules to try to maximize participation. Content like this was also done twice a week max. And I remind you that in the old days of endgame, most of us had a lot more time to spare for such things than we do today, where we tend to have shorter play sessions accomplishing a certain set of tasks daily or every other day if we have more obligations.

I have a linkshell that has a core group of people running content the most regularly. But I still don't feel like a "spectator." I'm happy to do my own thing most of the time, but when I really need to do something, the LS is happy to rotate people in and out to accomodate things.

It would be nice to have some new alliance thing. But I can only get behind it if 1) it actually *needs* an alliance and 2) it's not a daily thing. I do not see how a couple of people clearing a content with two parties full of people who don't have to do anything is any better than 6 mans mercing the loot from the content they clear, nor do I see how it is more fun or inclusive for the people who don't have to actively participate. I've been in stuff like that before and frankly, THAT is when i feel like a spectator- when I join a group for something like Vagary (which is alliance content, and - to be fair - originally did need full groups to clear), and I have little to do but watch the experts demolish the content, I'm not having fun, I'm just picking scraps off the floor.

[Dzspdref]

Again, there is already a possible solution built into the game to solve this problem, now SE just needs to implement it.
.
In Campaign fights in Shadowreign Era, i.e. [S] areas, if you participate in a campaign then you receive only as much exp, allied notes, rewards, etc... based on how much participation you do.
.
I have joined a campaign, got in possiblity 2~4 hits, and then *POOF!* it ended, and i walked out with near nothing.
I have joined a campaign, killed nearly a dozen targets plus a boss-type or two, and got a LOT of exp, allied notes, etc... (sic) comparatively.
.
Make Odyssey also the same; you do nothing, you get nothing. This is an "instanced" battlefield, so should be done.
(Treasure pool lotting might still be possible, but that's not topic here atm, just RP and wins.)
.
Ok, SE: make Odyssey same rewards system as Campaign and all the complaints here will cease.

[Alhanelem]

Well there are some balancing issues to work out in terms of how various actions of different jobs contribute to participation metrics. Outside of that though, it certainly would be preferable to do things that way.

[Dzspdref]

Well there are some balancing issues to work out in terms of how various actions of different jobs contribute to participation metrics. Outside of that though, it certainly would be preferable to do things that way.

It's also already in the programming for Campaign:
In lv. 75 - 90 era, I went many times as a WHM and mainly healed party members accordingly, and percentage of damage healed-to-taken, damage prevented via buffs, bar- spells, and enfeebling (Dia, Slow, Paralyze, etc...) and did NO combat damage, I still got nearly as much exp as other DD members.
In lv. 75 - 90 era, I went as BLM and did lots of DOT spells, direct spells, (weaker) AoE spells, and a few Ancient Magics, along with enfeebles like Poison, Blind, Bio, etc... Also got a lot of exp and more nearly as much as DD members.
Never went as BRD or SMN, so not sure how those would be parsed.
When I used to go as WAR, THF, NIN, BLU, or PUP, I would get a good high chunk of exp, allied notes, and rewards in coffers at end, just as if I went as BLM or WHM.
So seeing and remember these scenarios, the programming tweaks must already be in the game systems for it.
Now just transfer these over to any other "instanced" battlefield, and might actually work? Just speculating....

[Alhanelem]

It's also already in the programming for Campaign:BRD doesn't get much from just using songs, so they have to fight too and jobs like this don't do a lot of damage and so need the battle to be long enough for them to meet all the performance metrics. Meanwhile, some jobs can hit those performance metrics in seconds.

Currently, the game just has a bunch of things you score points for doing and you get rewards based on how many points you scored. It's not job specific, and to really work, it needs to be, which is the biggest issue with the campaign system. It's the closest thing we have to what we're looking for, but it does need work.

[Sirmarki]

Again, there is already a possible solution built into the game to solve this problem, now SE just needs to implement it.
.
In Campaign fights in Shadowreign Era, i.e. [S] areas, if you participate in a campaign then you receive only as much exp, allied notes, rewards, etc... based on how much participation you do.
.
I have joined a campaign, got in possiblity 2~4 hits, and then *POOF!* it ended, and i walked out with near nothing.
I have joined a campaign, killed nearly a dozen targets plus a boss-type or two, and got a LOT of exp, allied notes, etc... (sic) comparatively.
.
Make Odyssey also the same; you do nothing, you get nothing. This is an "instanced" battlefield, so should be done.
(Treasure pool lotting might still be possible, but that's not topic here atm, just RP and wins.)
.
Ok, SE: make Odyssey same rewards system as Campaign and all the complaints here will cease.

Campaign is time capped. Meaning, you can only get so much EXP/Notes per min, as an example. Going in and AOE'ing everything in one shot is completely pointless.