More Apex mobs in ....Beastmen Strongholds?

[Gwydion]

Hi SE,
Will we ever see Apex mobs in Beastmen strongholds like Fort Ghelsba or Ghelsba outpost? I mean, the zone is just MASSIVE. There's so many monsters and so much free-roaming space. In fact, I'd love to see Gheslba even receive Dynamis-like treatment!

I know it's longshot, but your hard work is appreciated and since FF16's release, I hope you get a break.

[Alhanelem]

I mean... lots of areas have many monsters and free-roaming space. Not sure what makes these areas more special.

As far as new content, we aren't going to be getting anything large scale anytime soon if ever. The game is basically in maintenance mode. There are updates planned but it's not going to be anything big like new raid content.

[Nash-Ketchum]

I'd be on board with this. I agree that those old zones are absolutely sprawling, and are completely underused at this point. I think it's a great idea. As far as what, if any changes SE will make to this game going forward on the other hand...

[Sirmarki]

I was running through Pashhow Marshlands the other day and that zone is a huge space with not much in it too. (Obviously both versions of the map, past and present)

[Alhanelem]

This logic is amazing in its badness. "There's a bunch of open space (in basically every field zone) so we should just stuff 'em full of apex mobs!"

Y'all realize not everyone has all jobs leveled and needs low level mobs to kill right? And there's also the occasional new player who would have to wade through high level nonsense because you want more apxe mobs?

[Gwydion]

I mean... lots of areas have many monsters and free-roaming space. Not sure what makes these areas more special.

As far as new content, we aren't going to be getting anything large scale anytime soon if ever. The game is basically in maintenance mode. There are updates planned but it's not going to be anything big like new raid content.

Go have a quick walk through Fort Ghelsba and Ghelsba Outpost. Really walk through this zone with a fresh pair of open eyes.


I'd be on board with this. I agree that those old zones are absolutely sprawling, and are completely underused at this point. I think it's a great idea. As far as what, if any changes SE will make to this game going forward on the other hand...

The terrain, the overhead bridges, the meandering walkways, cliffs, ledges and hallways. I can totally picture a ranger or mage strategy working from an overhead cliff onto some NMs below.


I was running through Pashhow Marshlands the other day and that zone is a huge space with not much in it too. (Obviously both versions of the map, past and present)

Right? I would support this too. Pashow could be the Dynamis strong-hold for Quadavs. The lore to support this doesn't even have to be too drawn-out either. The goblins in Davoi, Ostroja and Beadeaux (the ones who convert our Dynamis currency to 100 pieces and 10,000 pieces) are being bullied by Aurix to send him weekly dues. It's our job to go collect them on their behalf.

Each stronghold could have it's own currency (items or points) and maybe as a result, we see some new NMs: ultimate beastmen leaders and more disjoined fomors. Maybe the final bosses could be a fomor King Destin, Bastok President and Star Sybil? :D

Edit: Given the sizes of the zones, this can be weekly Alliance content or maximum 36 or 64 people as well. If that's not going to work, maybe we can charge time into these zones, much like Abyssea or Voidwatch. Either way, works for me.

[Alhanelem]

Go have a quick walk through Fort Ghelsba and Ghelsba Outpost. Really walk through this zone with a fresh pair of open eyes. Changed nothing.

Why are we playing this fantasy content game with stuff that will never happen even if it was a great idea? Now don't get me wrong, inventing content ideas is fun, and I've done it before. But it really is just a fantasy here- there is essentially zero chance of any new giant group content happening, and the ship has sailed on any sort of major modifications to the game. That said-

You guys are talking about filling space for the sake of filling space. All of these zones have their place for the story and for the base leveling experience. There's no reason to stuff them with high level mobs just because there's places that aren't used as much. Artists don't fill in every single bit of negative space in their artowork just to eliminate negative space. What they do with it has to contribute in some way.

This request for more apex mobs implies some sort of lack of them. when there really isn't. I almost wonder if you're purposely coming up with crazy ideas you know I wouldn't like just so you can ding me for being a debbie downer. It's almost like you stepped in a time machine to 15 years ago when the game was still young and there was an actual oppertunity for grand ideas to influence the game's development.

I have tons of these. And as it turns out the devs thought of many of them and didn't do them for one reason or another. Want to talk about wasted stuff in the game? How about the Depot in Bastok Mines? It's clearly marked and labeled on the map as a place you could go but it's been blocked off since day one. I want to see them make use of this (Oh wait, they were planning to have a train and that got scrapped. Dangit). Or how about the unused ship and airship landings? they should use those. How about some new 128 player content?

*sigh*

As fun as it is to fantasize about things they could have done or we want them to implement, it is far past the time where any of that could happen. Outside of fun/entertainment purposes, there is really no point in doing it.

[Gwydion]

Changed nothing. Really-

Why are we playing this fantasy content game with stuff that will never happen even if it was a great idea? Now don't get me wrong, inventing content ideas is fun, and I've done it before. But it really is just a fantasy here- there is essentially zero chance of any new giant group content happening, and the ship has sailed on any sort of major modifications to the game. That said-

You guys are talking about filling space for the sake of filling space. All of these zones have their place for the story and for the base leveling experience. There's no reason to stuff them with high level mobs just because there's places that aren't used as much. Artists don't fill in every single bit of negative space in their artowork just to eliminate negative space. What they do with it has to contribute in some way.

This request for more apex mobs implies some sort of lack of them. when there really isn't. I almost wonder if you're purposely coming up with crazy ideas you know I wouldn't like just so you can ding me for being a debbie downer.

You have a tendency to reply to posts with a very strong, contrarian opposition that is neither actionable nor helpful. This forum is for feedback to SE's community managers and FFXI game developers. Your continuous method of posting, which is: addition by subtraction, just isn't helping anyone and certainly isn't moving the conversation forward. If you have something constructive to add, then go right ahead. However, as it stands, SE's employees won't ever come back to these forums and say: "Wait! ...this design choice is a bad idea because Alhanelem said so!"

Anyway, the idea proposed in my previous post, could be 6/12/18/36/64-man content. Shoot ...it could be server-wide content. It could even unlock a new moogle Kupower for the entire server. There's no reason to both post here and also, limit the ideas and conversations of others.

[Alhanelem]

You have a tendency to reply to posts with a very strong, contrarian oppositionYou, like a lot of people, really don't know what that means. "Contrarian" means taking the opposite of a popular viewpoint. There's just one problem with that- Your viewpooint isn't popular either. One person singing the praises of your idea doesn't constitute popularity.

See, I knew you really came here to judge me and my posting. Thanks for proving that.

There is plenty of reason to limit the things you talked about. They will never happen. Period. Even if I liked the ideas. You seem to be living in an alternate world where development on the game hasn't been substantially scaled back.



Your continuous method of posting, which is: addition by subtraction, just isn't helping anyone and certainly isn't moving the conversation forwardEvery post in a thread moves the conversation forward, regardless of its content. You say I'm not helping anyone, but who exactly needs help here? You're saying a lot of words that have little meaning. If you really have some other purpose in replying to me other than to make me look bad for not liking your ideas, prove it by addressing my comments instead of simply berating me for disagreeing.



However, as it stands, SE's employees won't ever come back to these forums and say: "Wait! ...this design choice is a bad idea because Alhanelem said so!" It isn't a bad idea simply because I said so. It's a bad idea because it serves no purpose: It's a solution in search of a problem that doesn't exist.

Speaking broadly, I'd love new content that fits in with the game world. I'd like to see new content that makes sense within the game world. I'm not sure how stuffing superpowered mobs into underutilized spots in a zone just for the sake of doing so makes sense within the game world. Wanna address that concern for me? How is your suggestion any more than just using space for the sake of using space?

The problem with discussing it at all is it's not a productive discussion to have- There isn't going to be anything dramatic like massive new group content anytime soon, if ever.

[Gwydion]

Alright, trying to keep this thread on topic. If you're native to the nation of San D'Oria, you knew a few things to be true:


Ghelsba Outpost and Fort Ghelsba have never been used or mentioned in any community guides as a popular or recurring place for new or existing players to level.
Players have always moved towards Jueno seeking monsters that are closer in level them, rather then Beastmen strongholds in our home nations. (This is why it's a great choice for Apex mobs and Master Leveling).
The zones itself have a lot of free-roaming capability, and unique terrain which make for challenging spawns possible (both above and below a players current position).


I think Pashow could make a similar destination for Quadavs as well. However, I'm not so sure what would work for Yagudo. If any zone is available for more Apex mobs AND a Dynamis theme, I think Fort-K in possible. It just might be too big and need to have certain areas permanently walled off.

[Alhanelem]

Ghelsba Outpost and Fort Ghelsba have never been used or mentioned in any community guides as a popular or recurring place for new or existing players to level.Why is this a problem? It doesn't mean nobody ever went there, and in the very early days, some poeple did. I've spent more time there than you'd probably guess. I can certainly understand the desire to have more reasons to visit old areas, but if you just want to see the sights, you don't necessarily need content to take you there. And as I like to say, just because they could do something, doesn't mean they should. You still don't have much of an argument other than filling space for the sake of filling space.

Players have always moved towards Jueno seeking monsters that are closer in level them, rather then Beastmen strongholds in our home nations. (This is why it's a great choice for Apex mobs and Master Leveling).Again, not sure why we need excuses to go to these places. They have core purposes for the main storylines, that's why they're there. these "dungeon" areas were meant for quests, not so much for just grinding. And I'm not seeing the need for more monster camps for master leveling. Even on Asura, sure, there's a lot of people mercing or botting in one area. But it's hardly the only area. Have a look around, there are numerous other areas they added monsters to. People are just gravitating towards the easiest ones.


The zones itself have a lot of free-roaming capability, and unique terrain which make for challenging spawns possible (both above and below a players current position).I'm still not really seeing any compelling argument here, beyond "let's fill space for the sake of filling space."

When the game designers make decisions, they (historically, at least) don't simply look at the map and go, "okay, which spot in the game is the most empty, let's put something there." Things have to make sense. Now, to be fair, I don't agree with a lot of the *current* high/apex mob placements either, it's not just your ideas. For example, they decided to go your route with numerous areas years ago and it proved very problematic for people trying to complete quests- Dangruf Wadi for instance, which was certainly a very underused area, but they plopped high level monsters directly in the path needed to complete some quests that are well below the level of the mobs they placed there. creating a beginners trap where people see the monsters and might try to fight them (even after checking them- I know from experience that players would sometimes try to fight "incredibly tough" mobs even though it was probably going to be a bad idea).

I'm just going to set aside entirely the discussion about "dynamis theme" or new endgame content type stuff, because while changing mob camps is probably possible, there's just no way they're going to do something large scale like create new raid zones. So what I actually think of those ideas is honestly irrelevant (I never said I didn't want new content, I'm just being realistic).


The most likely vectors for any new content will be things like new boss fights in previously under-used BCNM areas, of which there are quite a few (though some have been used recently for TVR). But the difference between this and the things you're proposing is adding something like that doesn't have any potential interfere with low level characters accomplishing their goals.

[Vonima2]

Alright, trying to keep this thread on topic. If you're native to the nation of San D'Oria, you knew a few things to be true:


Ghelsba Outpost and Fort Ghelsba have never been used or mentioned in any community guides as a popular or recurring place for new or existing players to level.
Players have always moved towards Jueno seeking monsters that are closer in level them, rather then Beastmen strongholds in our home nations. (This is why it's a great choice for Apex mobs and Master Leveling).
The zones itself have a lot of free-roaming capability, and unique terrain which make for challenging spawns possible (both above and below a players current position).


I think Pashow could make a similar destination for Quadavs as well. However, I'm not so sure what would work for Yagudo. If any zone is available for more Apex mobs AND a Dynamis theme, I think Fort-K in possible. It just might be too big and need to have certain areas permanently walled off.

I like these ideas! Plenty of pockets in certain parts of those zones that could have monsters converted to Apex. Different atmosphere, different mob types, could be fun!

[Alhanelem]

I like these ideas! Plenty of pockets in certain parts of those zones that could have monsters converted to Apex. Different atmosphere, different mob types, could be fun!

There is literally a zero percent chance the two of you are not simply trolling the crap out of me right now. I'd really love to get in a voice chat with both of you and serve me all these "ideas" with a straight face. It really is just like I stepped into a time machine 15 years into the past.

[Gwydion]

There is literally a zero percent chance the two of you are not simply trolling the crap out of me right now. I'd really love to get in a voice chat with both of you and serve me all these "ideas" with a straight face. It really is just like I stepped into a time machine 15 years into the past.

There's nothing wrong with anyone enjoying FFXI on these forums. It's actually fun to share new ideas for content, mobs or even new dynamis-themed areas. Also, look, not everything revolves around you. Instead of reflecting inward, how about you contribute to this conversation? If you had the time and resources, what area or type of mobs would you like to see become available for Master Leveling?

[Vonima2]

Would also love to see apex mobs in MMM with trusts made usable.

[Gwydion]

Would also love to see apex mobs in MMM with trusts made usable.

I was not playing FFXI when MMM was popular, so I certainly would love to have a reason to go there.

[Alhanelem]

There's nothing wrong with anyone enjoying FFXI on these forums.I never said there was anything wrong.

But i'm just telling you the time for ideas and suggestions is largely past. Even the best ideas aren't going to be implemented because they don't have the staff to do anything grand. As long as you understand that it's just fantasy, sure, it's fine I guess. I'm really just here to tell you to keep your expectations grounded.

[Sirmarki]

I never said there was anything wrong.

But i'm just telling you the time for ideas and suggestions is largely past. Even the best ideas aren't going to be implemented because they don't have the staff to do anything grand. As long as you understand that it's just fantasy, sure, it's fine I guess. I'm really just here to tell you to keep your expectations grounded.

We all pay for a service, so there is nothing wrong in suggesting things which may or may not improve QoL.

I can't think of any other service (especially one that is paid for) that doesn't request new ideas from customers (hence the large amount of feedback forms you get sent).

[Gwydion]

I never said there was anything wrong.

But i'm just telling you the time for ideas and suggestions is largely past. Even the best ideas aren't going to be implemented because they don't have the staff to do anything grand. As long as you understand that it's just fantasy, sure, it's fine I guess. I'm really just here to tell you to keep your expectations grounded.

You must be a lot of fun at parties. Also, you still haven't joined in on the conversation. If you had the time and resources, what area or type of mobs would you like to see become available for Master Leveling?

[Stuzey]

Interesting Idea, apex mobs come to bolster beastmen areas.

I guess the issues are, not all the zones are equal in size, ghelsba is much larger than giddeus or palborough, plus these zones are used in early quests / missions, it would need to be planned extremely carefully as you can't have a low level trying to finish a mission run smack bang into apex mobs.

Unfortunatly I can't see it working due to this, It's tricky to introduce high level mobs to low level zones, the mobs that already exist may have to be moved as they drop items needed for crafting / quests, existing NM's (which ghelsba has a few) would need to be reloacted plus the new apex mobs can't get in the way of newbies or returning players (Warchief Vatgit for example).

Off topic, I do have fond memories of running around Ghelsba in my early days (2006), I remember getting the Lantern Shield and selling it for over 100k, I felt so rich, plus my first rare/ex drop from an NM, an Auriga Xiphos heh, I still have it today :)

[Gwydion]

Interesting Idea, apex mobs come to bolster beastmen areas.

I guess the issues are, not all the zones are equal in size, ghelsba is much larger than giddeus or palborough, plus these zones are used in early quests / missions, it would need to be planned extremely carefully as you can't have a low level trying to finish a mission run smack bang into apex mobs.

Unfortunatly I can't see it working due to this, It's tricky to introduce high level mobs to low level zones, the mobs that already exist may have to be moved as they drop items needed for crafting / quests, existing NM's (which ghelsba has a few) would need to be reloacted plus the new apex mobs can't get in the way of newbies or returning players (Warchief Vatgit for example).

Off topic, I do have fond memories of running around Ghelsba in my early days (2006), I remember getting the Lantern Shield and selling it for over 100k, I felt so rich, plus my first rare/ex drop from an NM, an Auriga Xiphos heh, I still have it today :)

Thanks for weighing in. Just having the conversation is always fun. You bring up a good point. I am not a crafter, so I didn't know there was crafting dependancies in Gheslba.

Some earlier in the thread said "There's no need" for more apex mobs. I took a look at JP Wiki, and there's only 2 groups of Apex mobs over level 140...and one of them is Gears/Cogs. :(

See: https://w.atwiki.jp/bartlett3/pages/327.html

[Alhanelem]

You must be a lot of fun at parties. Also, you still haven't joined in on the conversation. If you had the time and resources, what area or type of mobs would you like to see become available for Master Leveling?
I don't go to parties. :p

If I had to pick a place to put more camps... again I don't really see that much of a need. But I would probably use the shadowreign areas, seeing as nobody really ever leveled there at all, and since the mobs there aren't low level, it would be less likely that it would get in anyone's way.



Thanks for weighing in. Just having the conversation is always fun.Well I'm glad you're enjoying being here, but if I may ask, where have you been? Did you just come back from being away from the game?


As for camps- you know there's more than just straight Apex right? I'm not sure what the level of the enemies noted below is, but they have higher multipliers to exemplar points earned.


here are five categories for exemplar point gain currently in the game, given the labels of Normal, Special, Apex, Locus, and High Apex.

Normal enemies have a multiplier of 1. This category consists of any enemy not in one of the following groups.
Special enemies have a multiplier of 3. This category consists of all enemies in Odyssey Sheol; it is unknown if any other enemies use this category.
Apex enemies have a multiplier of 5. This category consists of enemies with the Apex prefix.
Locus enemies have a multiplier of 7. This category consists of enemies with the Locus prefix.
High Apex enemies have a multiplier of 8. This category consists of the enemies Disheveled Naraka, Enigmatic Vampyr, Inimical Corse, and Powercrazed Dvergr in Inner Ra'kaznar; it is unknown if any other enemies use this category.

Since I rarely get to party and I'm not paying mercs, I've not really fought any beyond the ones we always fought for capacity points, with the exception of the Empty, which I found took me way too long to kill to be worth doing over the popular job point camps.

[Sp1cyryan]

I don't go to parties. :p

Shocked Pikachu face.jpg

[Nash-Ketchum]

There is literally a zero percent chance the two of you are not simply trolling the crap out of me right now. I'd really love to get in a voice chat with both of you and serve me all these "ideas" with a straight face. It really is just like I stepped into a time machine 15 years into the past.

I only recently started perusing these forums, but your role here has already become quite clear. Every forum has an ill-tempered little man that replies to everything with vitriol and smut. No matter. You're easy enough to ignore.

[Catmato]

See, I knew you really came here to judge me and my posting. Thanks for proving that.

Are you seriously so deluded that you think any post on these forums that you don't agree with (95% of them) is targeted at you? You really, really might need to step back and reflect on what you say and why people react the way they do to your posts. You made your position clear in your first post in this thread, yet you posted several walls of text after that to continue to restate your position.

These forums seems to consist mostly of people posting an idea or opinion, you expressing your disagreement, then you arguing ad nauseam, seemingly because people have the audacity to not instantly and wholeheartedly agree with you and cease all further discussion. Have you ever considered that there might be a reason that so many people call you contrarian? Do you really think people dislike you just because why? you're a galka? you're on the spectrum? you have a high post count? None of that matters, people are so adversarial to you because you come off as adversarial to almost every idea that's posted here. People frequently claim you're forcing your opinion on others because you feel the need to endlessly tell people why their opinions and ideas are bad and wrong and that yours are good and correct.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be mean, I just want you to do some reflection. Or don't, I'm not your mom.

[Gwydion]

I don't go to parties. :p

If I had to pick a place to put more camps... again I don't really see that much of a need. But I would probably use the shadowreign areas, seeing as nobody really ever leveled there at all, and since the mobs there aren't low level, it would be less likely that it would get in anyone's way.


Well I'm glad you're enjoying being here, but if I may ask, where have you been? Did you just come back from being away from the game?


As for camps- you know there's more than just straight Apex right? I'm not sure what the level of the enemies noted below is, but they have higher multipliers to exemplar points earned.

Since I rarely get to party and I'm not paying mercs, I've not really fought any beyond the ones we always fought for capacity points, with the exception of the Empty, which I found took me way too long to kill to be worth doing over the popular job point camps.

Thanks for actually contributing to the conversation. I really mean it. I did not know the prefix/phrasing was an indication of the mob's level or I would have mentioned more than just Apex in my thread title. (Ignore the negative comments from others, at least in the context of this thread, because what you shared was informative. The feedback about Shadow-reign era zones is good too, because they certainly would not interfere with new players.

As to your question. I played FFXI heavily from 2002-2008 and modestly from 2012-present. My favorite job was Beastmaster and I never really made it to "end game" until I came back in 2012. I explored every inch of every zone until WotG came out and learned the pathing of every charmable mob/beastmaster XP camp. When it came to Endgame, I was only allowed to charm-claim during HNM days. Beastmasters could never do Salvage or be invited to Assault statics, or do Nyzule Isle. During Sky Gods, I sat in the mage party. For years, Beastmaster was an "everything-but-endgame" job. We even came with an XP penalty for using pets above Even Match, so the incentives to include Beastmaster were low. So, my experiences for FFXI, are different from folks who were actively involved in the latest content and whatever meta that entailed.

For folks who were included in the meta, I'm sure they have a different experience. Regarding FFXI internals, I only discovered Blugartr forums late in FFXI's life and there I found a whole group of people trying to better understand FFXI mechanics. I found it quite fun to jump into the deep-end of the internals head-first. As a result, I like to be creative and imaginative about what could possibly come to fruition within FFXI, even if the likelihood is extremely small.

I sincerely hope SE adds more balance to the game, but at the moment, much of their behavior towards FFXI and it's customers seems myopic. (Japan-only Treasures Exhibit, halting job-adjustments when there are still broken AF pieces, no one wants more Master Trials, the list goes on and on).

[Alhanelem]

Thanks for actually contributing to the conversation.No problem, but I don't like the implication that I wasn't contributing before. Every post, whether you agree with it or not or whether I said what you wanted to hear, contributes.



These forums seems to consist mostly of people posting an idea or opinion, you expressing your disagreement,This is largely because it's just the same four or five poeple here most of the time, and we're all equally persistent in trying to convince each other of our points of view, despite how futile it typically ends up being. The conversation here would be a lot better if there were more regulars and we heard more of a variety of perspectives. But since it's just me and that other small handful of people, not only is it admittedly repetitive, but it also probably puts off others from posting, even though we really need those fresh perspectives in here.

But in general terms, I'm a realist, so my throught process when I see something like this tends to be "We're not getting any big updates anytime soon, so why are people posting grand suggestions for major updates?" And the reason for this is because with limited development resources available, I would rather see the game's most pressing needs get attention over the development of things that I view as "would be nice." So: If you're seeing me being cynical towards your ideas, it's mostly just because I think (again: just my opinion) there are more important things they need to do that are also more realistic: like job tweaks and bug fixes.

In the end, even though it may seem like we're at odds here, I'm glad you came, because merit aside, I'm happy someone else showed up and posted something a little different from the usual.



As to your question. I played FFXI heavily from 2002-2008 and modestly from 2012-present. My favorite job was Beastmaster and I never really made it to "end game" until I came back in 2012. I explored every inch of every zone until WotG came out and learned the pathing of every charmable mob/beastmaster XP camp. When it came to Endgame, I was only allowed to charm-claim during HNM days. Beastmasters could never do Salvage or be invited to Assault statics, or do Nyzule Isle. During Sky Gods, I sat in the mage party. For years, Beastmaster was an "everything-but-endgame" job. We even came with an XP penalty for using pets above Even Match, so the incentives to include Beastmaster were low. So, my experiences for FFXI, are different from folks who were actively involved in the latest content and whatever meta that entailed. The main reason I asked is just because I know you're not new, even your post count reflects that. And so my hypothesis was that you'd been away for a long time and haven't kept up with the game news. Wasn't sure you were aware about the director change and the reduction in content updates going forward.



I sincerely hope SE adds more balance to the game, but at the moment, much of their behavior towards FFXI and it's customers seems myopic. (Japan-only Treasures Exhibit, halting job-adjustments when there are still broken AF pieces, no one wants more Master Trials, the list goes on and on). I'm certainly in agreement here.

See the thing is, when I support ideas or agree with stuff, I tend to just use the "like" button on the post. But disagreeing/disputing something requires some sort of explanation / comment. The reality is, I like lots of ideas and thoughtful posts, but people only notice the posts I make, because those are attached to my name, whereas you don't get to see who liked your post.

[Gwydion]

See the thing is, when I support ideas or agree with stuff, I tend to just use the "like" button on the post. But disagreeing/disputing something requires some sort of explanation / comment. The reality is, I like lots of ideas and thoughtful posts, but people only notice the posts I make, because those are attached to my name, whereas you don't get to see who liked your post.

The lesson to be learned here (if any cares to learn anything new these days), is that you can influence others' perception of you, and whether you like or not, you are continuously doing so.


So: If you're seeing me being cynical towards your ideas, it's mostly just because I think (again: just my opinion) there are more important things they need to do that are also more realistic: like job tweaks and bug fixes.

There's also merit here too. Assuming we had the resources, what job tweaks and fixes would you like to see? I mentioned some changes earlier towards Beastmaster, but I'd love to hear any and all fixes that folks want implemented. I'd also like to hear any justification you have for it being implemented. Job tweaks, bug fixes, you name it. Let's hear it.

[Alhanelem]

The lesson to be learned here (if any cares to learn anything new these days), is that you can influence others' perception of you, and whether you like or not, you are continuously doing so. I understand that, but I don't think I should have to write an essay detailing why I agree with someone just to alter this perception. Usually an agreement does not require many (or often any) words.

I'm really a perfectly reasonable person who firmly believes in my opinions and will argue them passionately because I care about them. That doesn't mean I'm unwilling to hear other perspectives though. If someone makes a good case or proves something I said to be factually inaccurate, then sure, that might actually influence my perspective.



There's also merit here too. Assuming we had the resources, what job tweaks and fixes would you like to see? I mentioned some changes earlier towards Beastmaster, but I'd love to hear any and all fixes that folks want implemented. I'd also like to hear any justification you have for it being implemented. Job tweaks, bug fixes, you name it. Let's hear it.
Well starting off with something simple, I think WHM needs to be given Banish IV and Banishga III. Despite that Summoner's Light Spirit has had access to Banish IV since the level cap was raised to 90, I was rather stunned it wasn't granted by level 99 or even with job point gifts. Though to be fair, they did get Holy II at lv99. The only reason I can see for not adding this is they were afraid maybe that a higher tier of Banish (which would reduce undead mob's special resistances by more than the 90% of Banish III) would be too good, even though most people don't even cast these spells for their special effects. But if that's the case, why does Summoner get it through Light Spirit?

It almost seems like the devs were afraid of WHM being used as anything other than a healer. Considering the Banish line costs more than black magic spells of the same tier, I don't think there's any danger of that. The primary reason to have these spells is to help solo/small group play, giving WHM a better spell to burst a skillchain with (especially their own). Is it *necessary* ? Maybe not. But I think it would improve the leveling experience for WHM with Trust (Some people just don't like to play with others all the time, you know). And it just seems bizzare that players still don't get these spells when high level WHM enemies, and even NPCs, have access to them.