Director Fujito doesn't like Beastmasters and his favorite job is Red Mage.

[Gwydion]

I mean this with the utmost respect.

Yes, Red Mage is extremely versatile.
Yes, Skillchains and magic bursting are primary components of battle content.

However, why must Endgame content revolve heavily around Skill chains and magic bursting? When we deviate from those rules, we are met with Nuke Wall, Bloodpact Wall, WeaponSkill Wall as responses from the development team.

So why can't we we have more Pet-focused objectives in Sortie? Let Beastmasters charm monsters as viable strategies. Remove the jug pet cap! Replace Beast Affinity with Pet Diffusion (Share Pet buffs with Master and Party, similar to BLU's Diffusion).

Given the style of battle content that exists in Odyssey and Sortie, can we have Nyzule-style objectives too? (Ones that do not focus on Battle). This will ensure all jobs on an equal playing field and one that doesn't favor certain jobs.

I am just looking for equality and balance.

[Sp1cyryan]

Stop with the silliness.

[Gwydion]

I just want pet jobs to be updated along with new content. Sortie and Odyssey came out with out any corresponding jug pets.

Beastmasters require a continuously updated arsenal due to the pet-level restrictions (and limitations of Beast Affinity). Let's not forget that some pet families are still capped at 99. :(

This is unfair. My favorite example of this is Herald Henry. SE added him at the very end of Delve being relevant and that pet was awful.

[Alhanelem]

However, why must Endgame content revolve heavily around Skill chains and magic bursting? Because these are core game mechanics?

He doesn't hate beastmaster, he just has a different vision of it than most players do. A vision of it being two partners working in tandem instead of standing out of sight letting the game beat itself. Granted, the best place for the job to be is somewhere in between.

I'm not saying beastmaster doesn't deserve or need updates, because it does. but we haven't even had the current director for long enough for anything to even happen. He himself hasn't touched either job (or any job, yet), so how can you say with a straight face he likes one or doesn't like another?

[Zenion]

However, why must Endgame content revolve heavily around Skill chains and magic bursting? When we deviate from those rules, we are met with Nuke Wall, Bloodpact Wall, WeaponSkill Wall as responses from the development team.

I am just looking for equality and balance.

To put it simply, when there aren't specific mechanisms put in place to limit the effectiveness of specific tactics, they dominate content to the exclusion of all others. The blood pact wall was a response to five summoners using astral flow astral conduit volt strike to dish out a million points of damage in 45 seconds; if it weren't there, every fight would just be "bring summoners and maybe a corsair for buffs."

The weaponskill wall was a response to the dominance of the naegling savage blade meta. Anything which doesn't have that mechanic still seems to be, essentially, "everyone but the healer put on a naegling and savage blade at 1000 TP. If we have a red mage to heal, they can do it too." It's simple, it's effective, it renders nearly every other aspect of combat redundant - why skillchain when you can just do more savage blade? Stun? No, more savage blade. I have this really neat job ability, but it doesn't get me closer to the next savage blade so why do it.

Nuke wall... well, honestly I'm not sure why that one was so important when it still requires either one very fast damage dealer, two regular damage dealers, or a damage dealer and a scholar to set up, and then it gets you at most maybe fifteen magic bursts in a party, but... it's another case of "if we don't make this tactic less effective, it will dominate the game to the exclusion of others."

I'm honestly not sure why you would want to make skillchains and magic bursts - two of the most unique and special things about Final Fantasy XI combat - irrelevant, but the good news is that in most content they are. Which is a shame because they encourage players to work as a team instead of just waiting for their TP bar to fill and using their single most optimal weaponskill regardless of whatever else is going on, while leaving mage jobs at home because they just aren't relevant without the magic burst boost.

Skillchains with magic bursts basically give the most players the most chance to actually be involved in a fight in a meaningful way. Mages become useful. Weaker DDs can open chains for the heavy DDs to close them. Even the supports might be able to get in on the action if they're not overwhelmed just keeping everyone alive. It's basically peak design.

That said, it would be nice to see pet jobs get a little more love. Summoner got shafted on Sortie objectives, with blood pacts not counting as weaponskills or spells (plus the whole blood pact wall thing which really should be more like the weaponskill wall and not "they all get worse every time" but let's not open up that can of worms here.) At this stage of the game, beastmasters really should be able to at least call up one ilvl119 example of each jug pet family. Charm... actually has no reason not to be working, I know I've been able to charm locus mobs on bard so it's not a level thing, but that's something parties might complain about. And sharing buffs with pets has been on my christmas list for a decade. I don't see it happening, but... yeah, it would be nice to get a few tweaks there, but if pets are viable already without that, then...


Given the style of battle content that exists in Odyssey and Sortie, can we have Nyzule-style objectives too? (Ones that do not focus on Battle). This will ensure all jobs on an equal playing field and one that doesn't favor certain jobs.

... we got those in Sortie. Rest in that one room, use a buffing spell next to the thing, /hurray next to the thing, open the doors in order, open the other doors within a time limit, metal gear your way through a hall, all that stuff. It... actually favors corsair, weirdly enough, since that's the job that has the easiest time reaching and maintaining the +60% movement speed cap to run around and do all that (plus it can let other jobs do the same.) Dancer, bard, and summoner get part credit for being able to give everyone some movement speed, but bolter's roll is king.

But yeah, it would be cool to see something similar to that excluding lamps in order, all my homies hate lamps in order, but at this stage in the game I think it's too late to ask for anything like that. Sortie's done, master trials are the last thing officially hinted to be in the future and you know those are going to just be fights, so... like, maybe three years down the line we might hopefully see a new type of event, maybe? If we're being optimistic? Until then, there's just no room for new objective-driven tasks in stuff.

[Alhanelem]

but at this stage in the game I think it's too late to ask for anything like that.Yes. While the Director has promised some manner of new content down the line, it's not going to be anything big like Dynamis, dramatic like a new story, or probably anything really meta-changing.

[Gwydion]

Yes. While the Director has promised some manner of new content down the line, it's not going to be anything big like Dynamis, dramatic like a new story, or probably anything really meta-changing.

I'm really glad you brought this up. Meta-changing. Let's look at a recent shout for an Odyssey C group:

https://i.imgur.com/wUIGYpn.png

The expectations from players (current Meta) for Odyssey C at a minimum, is that Bard have 5 songs and equipped with a Savage Blade set. One can argue that this set dual Song Buff + DD setup is much more of a front-line DD job than Beastmaster currently is. Meanwhile, a corsair, can also buff the party and is expected to have a dual role of buffing that party and being a DPS with Savage Blade. Again, both COR and BRD are expected to execute on both of these roles and as the current meta suggests, they do so very well when geared properly. The cherry on top is that COR can also do melee, ranged, melee+ranged, physical and magic damage AND debuff the mob with Quick Draw.

Beastmaster needs to be included in this meta. It's not really a front-line DD. Only 6 pets can buff the Master. Maybe give Beastmaster Pet Diffusion and Dual Wield at 99? or a 2100 JP Gift? I'm at a loss for words here, but it's clear to me that other jobs are extremely malleable and fit nicely into end game content. Beastmaster's redesign in recent years hasn't helped at all.

[Zenion]

Yes. While the Director has promised some manner of new content down the line, it's not going to be anything big like Dynamis, dramatic like a new story, or probably anything really meta-changing.

So far as I can recall, the only content we've been teased beyond Sortie and the prime grind was new master trials to use the new prime weapons in... was there another one I missed, because it'd be neat to have some small glimmer of hope for a future beyond the Ra'kaznar muffin mines.

[Monsuta_Man]

BST is a solo job

Always has been, always should have been.......

Prohibit BST from pts, and make them the Saiyans of Final Fantasy who can throw boss mobs at enemies. The community already did the 1st part.......

BST as a group job was done around 2010-ish....??????? Is now 2023......it aint working boss.....

BST are just in their little corner as they always been.

(The stuff about prohibiting BST from parties & making them a solo job was sarcasm......kinda......)

[Alhanelem]

BST is a solo job

Always has been, always should have been.......

Prohibit BST from pts, and make them the Saiyans of Final Fantasy who can throw boss mobs at enemies. The community already did the 1st part.......

BST as a group job was done around 2010-ish....??????? Is now 2023......it aint working boss.....

BST are just in their little corner as they always been.

(The stuff about prohibiting BST from parties & making them a solo job was sarcasm......kinda......)
That was never the intention. All jobs were meant to be used in a party setting because that's how the game was primarily meant to be played. The fact that BST was particularly good at soloing doesn't mean that it was "a solo job." And clearly, the devs didn't want it to be that way either because the command range nerf made it a real pain to be solo. The same logic could be used to say any job with pets was a "solo job" but SMN had party buffs and PUP had support effects.

[Gwydion]

That was never the intention. All jobs were meant to be used in a party setting because that's how the game was primarily meant to be played. The fact that BST was particularly good at soloing doesn't mean that it was "a solo job." And clearly, the devs didn't want it to be that way either because the command range nerf made it a real pain to be solo. The same logic could be used to say any job with pets was a "solo job" but SMN had party buffs and PUP had support effects.

SE can fix Beastmaster in just 3-4 EASY steps:

Uncap all jug pets. (They would simply match the Item-Level of Mainhand Axe, which is the status quo).
This makes Beast Affinity redundant and can be replaced with Pet Diffusion. (Beastmasters can share Pet Buffs with the whole party).
Give Beastmaster Dual Wield I/II at level 90.
Optional, but useful: Increase base Reward Regen by just 5 points. This eliminates Beast Healer and you have another merit II category to implement your vision for Beastmaster.

Ideally, there should be at least 10, not 6 pets that can buff the master (and party), but I think the above changes would solve about 90% of Beastmaster's problems. I have a list of Axe weapon-skill changes, but I don't want to inundate SE community employees with tons of information. However, if they're reading, I do appreciate their time.

I would be extremely happy with the bulleted-list of changes above, were implemented. (Improvements to Beastmaster's Axe/Scythe Weaponskills would be extremely nice to have, but I understand we're working with very limited resources here).

Edit: I mentioned in a previous post, that if uncapping old jug pets is too cumbersome or risky, that providing new pets would eliminate the need for Beast Affinity altogether. This also aligns with what SE said to us during the last NA question/answer session. (They asked us for suggestions on new jug pets).

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/58081-Get-rid-of-Beast-Affinity-Beast-Healer-please%21

[Alhanelem]

you're preaching to the choir man, I agree BST needs some buffs.I'm not going to fuss over specifics, but you're far from the first two to complain about the state of BST. I do hope some job adjustments are still in the pipeline.

I'm just not sure why you quoted me, as I never disputed that in the first place.

[Monsuta_Man]

Well, since XVI sales are down, notably in the U.K, and Japan by damn near 90% iirc......lets focus on the OG, XI. You know.....the vastly profitable FF game?

Now that we got the big bad XVI out the way...everyone played it for about a week or 2 & went back to Diablo & WoW, lets show some love to WoW's oldest competitor.

The GOAT......
https://i.imgur.com/c9EZFNE.gif

[Alhanelem]

Well, since XVI sales are down, notably in the U.K, and Japan by damn near 90% iircThis means nothing, 90% of basically all games' sales are in their first week or two. Wherever preorders are available, probably 90% of that 90% are preorders.

And we're not getting another expansion or dragon pets. Sorry to rain on your parade. :p

I think the best we can hope for really is that SE will eventually decide to do a proper remaster, and then if that is successful we will see big new things.

[Monsuta_Man]

Imo, BST should actually be a SC specialist via their pet; given how powerful you can make them without any special treatment.

That is the direction I would take BST, if I were a dev.

They should get SC & MB bonuses when performing such things with their pets.

[Gwydion]

I love that the animation says Dragon Jugs 4 BST. :)

[Allestra]

This means nothing, 90% of basically all games' sales are in their first week or two. Wherever preorders are available, probably 90% of that 90% are preorders.

And we're not getting another expansion or dragon pets. Sorry to rain on your parade. :p

I think the best we can hope for really is that SE will eventually decide to do a proper remaster, and then if that is successful we will see big new things.

I would LOVE a remaster ♥
Fingers, eyes and toes crossed.

[Gwydion]

SE can fix Beastmaster in just 3-4 EASY steps:

Uncap all jug pets. (They would simply match the Item-Level of Mainhand Axe, which is the status quo).
This makes Beast Affinity redundant and can be replaced with Pet Diffusion. (Beastmasters can share Pet Buffs with the whole party).
Give Beastmaster Dual Wield I/II at level 90.
Optional, but useful: Increase base Reward Regen by just 5 points. This eliminates Beast Healer and you have another merit II category to implement your vision for Beastmaster.

Ideally, there should be at least 10, not 6 pets that can buff the master (and party), but I think the above changes would solve about 90% of Beastmaster's problems. I have a list of Axe weapon-skill changes, but I don't want to inundate SE community employees with tons of information. However, if they're reading, I do appreciate their time.

I would be extremely happy with the bulleted-list of changes above, were implemented. (Improvements to Beastmaster's Axe/Scythe Weaponskills would be extremely nice to have, but I understand we're working with very limited resources here).

Edit: I mentioned in a previous post, that if uncapping old jug pets is too cumbersome or risky, that providing new pets would eliminate the need for Beast Affinity altogether. This also aligns with what SE said to us during the last NA question/answer session. (They asked us for suggestions on new jug pets).

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/58081-Get-rid-of-Beast-Affinity-Beast-Healer-please%21

I sincerely hope SE considers the above or any changes at all to Beastmaster. I also want to point out that there is precedent for calling for support through the use of special items, shown below. I don't see why I unique, balanced pet can't be added to more Beastmaster Axes.

Quest: https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/A_Generous_General%3F
https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/e/ea/Choplix%27s_Coif_description.png

Quest: https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/A_Moral_Manifest%3F
https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/f/f0/Tsoo%27s_Headgear_description.png

Quest: https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/An_Affable_Adamantking%3F
https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/9/9f/Da%27Vhu%27s_Barbut_description.png

Quest: https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/An_Understanding_Overlord%3F
https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/3/32/Gadzradd%27s_Helm_description.png

[Azazura]

long time MMO player..

while its nice to see people actually play and enjoy beastmaster... Pet classes are the hardest jobs to build right and balance. in my time of ff11. 2004-2013, bst was not a job a ton of people played simply due to the exp loss. With leveling taking months.. the less exp you get the longer it took.

but judging from what i've seen in ff11 with puppetmaster, beastmaster and summoner.. on top of what i've seen in ff14 with summoner and scholar...

pet classes are a nightmare and tend to go through revision after revision.

ff11 as far as i looked into doesn't have the development tea, size to revise beastmaster to do the content... or vice versa.

here is hopping it goes better...

but at the end of the day skill chains and magic bursting is where the biggest damage is from..

[Ahlen]

SE should just add a 90% aoe dmg reduction to pets. Wow did this years ago its a major QoL improvement. If they are worried about pet tanks abusing this they could make the main target of the AOE take full dmg if its a pet still. They already have something like this coded for like odyssey shoel for mobs. Also I would remove all PET only buffs and just make things like songs / rolls apply to pets as well. This would allow groups to mix pet and non pet jobs a lot easier.