Prime Weapon Thread

[Sp1cyryan]

Given the absolute bellyaching over a neat Aegisesque lockstyle. I can't imagine how insane some people are going to get about it.

That being said, at this point in the game I think these weapons are a good addition overall. Despite replacing Aegis, lolOchain, G-Horn, Laev, etc. That's only because of where the game is at though right now and for the foreseeable future.

[Pixela]

These are weapons you work for and that are black, it's not the same and those are pretty cool.

I would like some conformation the new endgame area is still being added if they can.

[Sp1cyryan]

These are weapons you work for and that are black, it's not the same and those are pretty cool.

I would like some conformation the new endgame area is still being added if they can.

So it's okay to replace relic/empyrean instruments and shields as long as it is a different color? Lol

As for the planned changes. You need no confirmation. Just wait and see. They directly commented on it in relation to this month's update.

[Pixela]

Yes because you can instantly recognize what it is from a distance and you still have to put effort to get it.

I already said I would not be annoyed if they made the aegist look like this:

https://i.imgur.com/Gq0LOim.jpg

[Immortal]

Weak troll

[Immortal]

Personally I don't like weapons being replaced without a hope that we can augment them further. Hopefully there is reasoning behind that aside from the usual doomer perspectives. At this point I can only imagine how hard it is to keep all those classes of weapons relevant, but in reality we didn't even need another set of weapons like this. The stats aren't as unique as I hoped either, I wanted something interesting for our jobs not simple stat upgrades.

[Alhanelem]

dont really need two threads for people to moan about the same thing

Get over it, the aegist isn't changing, it's already identifiable, distance is irrelevant.

[Zenion]

I don't like how the staff is casually just a better Nirvana and the best nuking staff. I mean, it's cool that they put summoner stats on it when it would have been on-brand to give it avatar: accuracy and magic accuracy +50 and call it a day, but... they could have dialed the blood pact damage back to 15 on the final upgrade, and put on avatar: magic attack bonus +50, and made a Nirvana-tier magic staff while keeping the old one relevant for physical damage.
EDIT: Though I guess you don't get perp- on the prime staff, so Nirvana still has a purpose between blood pacts, barely?

I'm not sure how putting two additional songs and all songs +4 on the same instrument wasn't replacing Gjallarhorn and Daurdabla, but I guess technically those aren't weapons.

Foenaria's going to be interesting though. Hits harder than Apocalypse and has triple attack, but it loses out on that sexy Haste aftermath. Definitely a straight upgrade in a supported party setting (especially with the PDL+ aftermath), but is it going to be a full replacement for solo play, or will the aftermath save the old relic there?

[Sp1cyryan]

Personally I don't like weapons being replaced without a hope that we can augment them further. Hopefully there is reasoning behind that aside from the usual doomer perspectives. At this point I can only imagine how hard it is to keep all those classes of weapons relevant, but in reality we didn't even need another set of weapons like this. The stats aren't as unique as I hoped either, I wanted something interesting for our jobs not simple stat upgrades.

Ochain was already essentially dead, and it's not like making a better Aegis matters because Aegis is poopoo easy and can be used until dumping a year into making this.

Instruments get the smallest violin because now lucky BRDs will get to throw two away. There's not really a reason to care about preserving the integrity of these non-weapon items. Frankly at this point there isnt a reason to care about the integrity of any weapons that have their toes stepped on by Primes.

[Pixela]

The new bard instrument has a new bard song, +dmg limit.

[Immortal]

Ochain was already essentially dead, and it's not like making a better Aegis matters because Aegis is poopoo easy and can be used until dumping a year into making this.

Instruments get the smallest violin because now lucky BRDs will get to throw two away. There's not really a reason to care about preserving the integrity of these non-weapon items. Frankly at this point there isnt a reason to care about the integrity of any weapons that have their toes stepped on by Primes.

What in my post suggested I didn't already know all of this? I just don't feel they needed a whole new class of weapons, especially since we barely have anything to use them on aside from Odyssey and they arent some massive upgrades over other optimal weapons/armor. If their plan was to just give super powered weapons that destroyed all other options as a last hurrah, they kinda failed because a bunch of these just suck from initial glance. Why do you have such a doomer stance? The reason not to care at this point is because? Love to see the answer

[Sp1cyryan]

What in my post suggested I didn't already know all of this? I just don't feel they needed a whole new class of weapons, especially since we barely have anything to use them on aside from Odyssey and they arent some massive upgrades over other optimal weapons/armor. If their plan was to just give super powered weapons that destroyed all other options as a last hurrah, they kinda failed because a bunch of these just suck from initial glance. Why do you have such a doomer stance? The reason not to care at this point is because? Love to see the answer

So you are moving from "contrarian" spam to some sophomoric "doomer" spam? Are you just unable to manage adjectives? Lol.

They weren't trying to invalidate every weapon from the looks of it. Being a last hurrah or not is besides that anyway. They seemed to have been concerned with following a weapon theme as with all previous ultimate weapons. You are also prematurely judging them, but that is par for the course.

[Tarmarkvar]

This seems kind of premature. Nothing has been officially implemented into the game. There's just been some mining of the data files. I mean, at least wait until we have some idea of the effort level required.

[Sp1cyryan]

This seems kind of premature. Nothing has been officially implemented into the game. There's just been some mining of the data files. I mean, at least wait until we have some idea of the effort level required.

The stats are the topic though. Effort required isn't too relevant.

[RichLester]

... but are SE joking? 1 million gal + 2 octahedrites + 5 voracious psyches for Prime Weapon stage 3? Let's calculate this up a sec.

If you manage to get into a party where they can get 20-30k gal per day (basement levels) if you're lucky to be in one when people are on, then 1 mil / 25k = 40 days (50 days @ 20k). That's 2 months almost constantly.

If you go solo or in a pair, going round the main floor (4 NMs, a few leeches, chests on the way + blitzer chests in area F & G), you can get approx. 5k gal. This will then be 1 mil / 5k = 200 days and that's if we do it each day.

This is ridiculous. Has SE forgot what they put as the last click on PlayOnline before going into the game? "DO NOT NEGLECT YOUR WORK, FAMILY & FRIENDS". This clearly breaches that. I have plenty of other games to be getting on with & meant to not play this game for hours upon end.

They have to come up with a way for us to trade in sapphires & eikondrites for gal in order to sufficiently boost it up or we'll never get to stages 4 and 5. Also, we still have our empy +3 gear to still get done.

[Alhanelem]

Unfortunately they design this kind of thing so that the no lifers who care about this stuff the most can't just burn through it in a day or a week and then go "theres no content left I quit." Sadly this comes at the expense of effectively excluding people who would like to work at it but can't treat the game like a job. The good news is you don't need the final stage for the story and fully upgraded REMAs are still worth.

Honestly the bigger reason I have a problem with this is if you want gear from Sortie, that's just going to make it take even longer since they share the same currencies.

[Sp1cyryan]

Unfortunately they design this kind of thing so that the no lifers who care about this stuff the most can't just burn through it in a day or a week and then go "theres no content left I quit." Sadly this comes at the expense of effectively excluding people who would like to work at it but can't treat the game like a job. The good news is you don't need the final stage for the story and fully upgraded REMAs are still worth.

Honestly the bigger reason I have a problem with this is if you want gear from Sortie, that's just going to make it take even longer since they share the same currencies.

If it wasn't for all the bots and QoL/level cap increases. Then the other weapons were all no-life status too outside of Aeonics. I'd rather do this than farm Dynamis in the equivalent capacity. Then again, at least there is a bit more of a feeling of variety in Dynamis. Which is why I was hoping there was another harder area to Sortie being added.

[Pixela]

From my experience and seeing how people react every time some big thing is added, it's less about people being mad how long it takes to get one and more mad how long it will take them to get 5.

The reality of hardcore mmorpg players is if you make the game easier they will just increase the scope of their goals and then create a massive workload when some new thing is added, and then have to do it x5.

However I feel there are still some unknown factors here, such as was the case with ML where they added higher level monsters.

[Tarmarkvar]

... but are SE joking? 1 million gal + 2 octahedrites + 5 voracious psyches for Prime Weapon stage 3? Let's calculate this up a sec.

If you manage to get into a party where they can get 20-30k gal per day (basement levels) if you're lucky to be in one when people are on, then 1 mil / 25k = 40 days (50 days @ 20k). That's 2 months almost constantly.

If you go solo or in a pair, going round the main floor (4 NMs, a few leeches, chests on the way + blitzer chests in area F & G), you can get approx. 5k gal. This will then be 1 mil / 5k = 200 days and that's if we do it each day.

This is ridiculous. Has SE forgot what they put as the last click on PlayOnline before going into the game? "DO NOT NEGLECT YOUR WORK, FAMILY & FRIENDS". This clearly breaches that. I have plenty of other games to be getting on with & meant to not play this game for hours upon end.

They have to come up with a way for us to trade in sapphires & eikondrites for gal in order to sufficiently boost it up or we'll never get to stages 4 and 5. Also, we still have our empy +3 gear to still get done.

This weapons are crazy powerful. I mean, the instrument combines Gjallhorn and Daurdabla into one item, and gives you an awesome exclusive song too. These are much better than the old crop of "ultimate" weapons so they should be harder to obtain. There is a huge amount of content available for casual players without the connections to do the really top tier stuff. Why is it so wrong that we throw a bone to the people who want something that requires top skill, good teamwork, strong organizational efforts, and real effort to do?

[Immortal]

I don't even mind that its a long term grind... we need something like that to hold people over. What I do mind is that they chose Sortie to do it. One of the most boring content added in a long time and we have to spam it endlessly... goodness. I had hoped they would at least have some final end game area but I was giving them too much credit I guess.

[Alhanelem]

If it wasn't for all the bots and QoL/level cap increases. Then the other weapons were all no-life status too outside of Aeonics. Even in the early days, if you happened to be filthy rich, it wouldn't take that long to complete a relic. Even by your own admission they don't take very long today, the shields especially.

[Armarc]

Even in the early days, if you happened to be filthy rich, it wouldn't take that long to complete a relic. Even by your own admission they don't take very long today, the shields especially.

Getting the Dynamis Xarc/beau NM clears was the hardest part in the old days. I finished my first in 2007 and the currency was far from the issue.

[Tarmarkvar]

Getting the Dynamis Xarc/beau NM clears was the hardest part in the old days. I finished my first in 2007 and the currency was far from the issue.

I'll second that. I was part of a Dynamis linkshell back in 2006 and we were helping a guy build Aegis. We spent an entire 2 hour run to take a shot at Animated Shield but failed anyway when we couldn't kill it fast enough.

[Pixela]

It took me a year to fund my first relic, I helped run a dyna linkshell and we took turns funding runs between 4 people. Then to speed it up I camped Sandworm and Dark Ixion every single day in my hnmls, 6 hour+ camps for a good 6-7 months.

I put more time and effort into getting than that most people put into paying off their car.

I still remember proudly wearing it a hnm camp and missing my first ws, I nearly quit the game on the spot.

[Sp1cyryan]

It took me a year to fund my first relic, I helped run a dyna linkshell and we took turns funding runs between 4 people. Then to speed it up I camped Sandworm and Dark Ixion every single day in my hnmls, 6 hour+ camps for a good 6-7 months.

I put more time and effort into getting than that most people put into paying off their car.

You come across as very out of touch with either the real world or Vana'diel.

[Immortal]

You come across as very out of touch with either the real world or Vana'diel.

Sounds more like you tbh

[Tarmarkvar]

You come across as very out of touch with either the real world or Vana'diel.

Yeah. I wish I could pay off an entire car in only a year and a half.

[Pixela]

You come across as very out of touch with either the real world or Vana'diel.

I mean at the time I was playing 7-8 hours a day, 7 days a week. I was farming gil almost the entire time I was on, mostly from money split HNM camps, bcnm, ksbcnm, gardening etc.

If you were working 7-8 hours a day 7 days a week and all the money went to a car I'm pretty sure you would pay that off far quicker than it took me to finish my relic. This was a long time ago, gil was harder to make back then.

It was just a hyperbolic statement for effect but it's probably accurate all the same.

[Sp1cyryan]

Yeah. I wish I could pay off an entire car in only a year and a half.

"WHAT DO YOU MEAN MY AEGIS DOESN'T HAVE VALUE AS COLLATERAL?!"

[RichLester]

Coming back to the subject, I don't mind doing 400k gal for it as 350k is all 5 empy+3 pieces, which is ok but 1 million gal is just too much, I think. It's either get 3 or 4 jobs to empy+3 or 1 prime weapon stage 3 and I would like 3 prime weapons if possible. I've looked at the weapons on the wikis but I'm thinking of empy+3 gear, instead. It's a balancing act of what you need at the time. I'm still hoping I can sell my eikondrites & sapphires that I get loads of now for gal at some point soon.

[Sp1cyryan]

I think the goal was to make players choose which single weapon they want. Not for them to have multiple Primes.

[Alhanelem]

This is an MMO, some players have a legal obligation to collect every single item that ever existed.

[RichLester]

Yeah, but now I have 2 octahedrites from the basement blitzer coffers & 5 voracious psyches we can get each month for doing ROE4 each month. Why are these so simple to get when it is near impossible to get the gal if doing 5k or 25k-ish runs each time? It doesn't make any sense. If they want us to get stage 3 at 2 mil gal, guessing, then there's just no point. I ain't spending 2 years getting 1 prime weapon stage 3. There are better things to get & do.

The hardcore players who play this all the time always sways SE into their direction, instead of looking at how many players are nowhere near elite level (Master lvl 50 on a few jobs with all jobs at lvl 99, quite a lot of REMA weapons, etc.) & never will get there. There's only so much you can do in a few hours each day. I think we're due another census.

[Sirmarki]

There's only so much you can do in a few hours each day. I think we're due another census.

That's always been FFXI though. In fact, in the old days, you couldn't really get much at all done in a few hours.

[RichLester]

True, we have always grinding on FFXI for years but aren't we meant to be rewarded for all that grinding, instead of being punished with a load more? It's just spending an hour in Sortie each day, not getting much gal, may not be worth it in the end apart from getting empy+3 gear. In the olden days, we used to get quite a lot done in a few hours, like getting to lvl 99 via WOTG campaign battle cycles (which crashed on occasions, lol).

[Alhanelem]

True, we have always grinding on FFXI for years but aren't we meant to be rewarded for all that grinding, instead of being punished with a load more?Nope. In this, as in every other MMO ever made, the reward for your endless grinding is more endless grinding. Grinding is a core principle of MMOs.

[VoiceMemo]

I'm guessing the 1m gallimaufry cost is also to promote teaming up, forming parties of 6. With full parties, you can do 30k to 50k or more gallimaufry per run. At that rate it is between 34 to 20 runs to get 1m points.

[Pixela]

Nobody should worry about how difficult it is to make more than one, because these things are made easier over time.

As such your 2nd or 3rd will prob be easier.

Also nobody has proven how much anything costs to make yet, everyone is just guessing.

[Tarmarkvar]

True, we have always grinding on FFXI for years but aren't we meant to be rewarded for all that grinding, instead of being punished with a load more? It's just spending an hour in Sortie each day, not getting much gal, may not be worth it in the end apart from getting empy+3 gear. In the olden days, we used to get quite a lot done in a few hours, like getting to lvl 99 via WOTG campaign battle cycles (which crashed on occasions, lol).

What olden days? In 2006 you'd stand around for 3 hours hoping to get the claim on Nidhogg or Fafnir, then hoping to get some crazy rare drop. If you don't get the claim, you go home with nothing. In 2012 you'd do Voidwatch 1000 times for jack squat. In 2014 you'd slowly grind job points and maybe get 2 per hour.

[Sp1cyryan]

What olden days? In 2006 you'd stand around for 3 hours hoping to get the claim on Nidhogg or Fafnir, then hoping to get some crazy rare drop. If you don't get the claim, you go home with nothing. In 2012 you'd do Voidwatch 1000 times for jack squat. In 2014 you'd slowly grind job points and maybe get 2 per hour.

Olden days of AFK leveling and capping merits on worms in Abyssea La Theine. That hard rewarding grind.

[RichLester]

I started 2006 with the Valkurm Dunes parties, Colibri camps in Wajaom Woodlands, WotG campaign battles, Worm parties in Aby La Theine too. Getting job points were fine (for me going to the Rocs in Marj Ravine). Of course, we keep grinding away but things are winding down now, due to the development team moving onto other things. I can't see this game being maintained for another 10 years. There are other things to do, games to complete & life to live. Getting 25k+ gal parties depends on who's around.

[Pixela]

I have little doubt XI will be around for at least another 10 years.

However they do need to take someone on that is younger that can take over after Fujito retires, just as Fujito took over from Matsui.

A game with a built in audience like XI just needs someone to "run the shop" and as long as they have that it can carry on for as long as it is wanted to carry on.

[Dragoy]

I have little doubt XI will be around for at least another 10 years.

However they do need to take someone on that is younger that can take over after Fujito retires, just as Fujito took over from Matsui.

A game with a built in audience like XI just needs someone to "run the shop" and as long as they have that it can carry on for as long as it is wanted to carry on.

It should be pretty easy normally, right?

Except it's a big corporate thing... soooo yeah... we're doomed. Doomed methinks I tells ya!

[Pixela]

The biigger problem is that it's Japanese game, so there is a much smaller pool to recruit from.

[Alhanelem]

The biigger problem is that it's Japanese game, so there is a much smaller pool to recruit from.
There is no shortage of game dev talent for them to hire, why do you think Japan has so many game dev companies? Because no one is working for them? And they don't just hire Japanese, they hire from all over the world, and have access to the same talent pool that any other company has.

[Pixela]

Everquest is smaller than XI but becasue it's a western company there is a bigger pool of people to recruit from that love the game, and want to work on it. Even if it means less pay than working on wow or something.

XI will only hire JP developers, which is a much smaller pool. That's not to say JP doesn't have lots of developers, it's to say they don't have many that will want to work on it as they would if they could recruit from NA and EU.

[Sirmarki]

XI will only hire JP developers, which is a much smaller pool.

I doubt that seeing as Japan is the worlds 3rd largest game development country.

[Alhanelem]

XI will only hire JP developers, which is a much smaller pool. That's not to say JP doesn't have lots of developers, it's to say they don't have many that will want to work on it as they would if they could recruit from NA and EU. This is provably false as CBU3 has many people from North America and elsewhere on its staff. Michael-Christopher Koji Fox in particular who heads up lore and localization for FFXIV is not a Japan native, and all of the voice acting sourced from regions where people speak those languages. Many of them work in Japan in the SE offices there. Not to mention all the support staff, voice actors and various other roles all instrumental to the development of their games which in many cases can't really be done by a Japanese person as effectively.

Disclaimer: Yes, I know that FFXI doesn't have voice acting, the point is that, FFXI is maintained by staff at Creative Business Unit III in SE's offices in Japan, and there are plenty of people who work there who are not native Japanese.

[Pixela]

If you have a smaller team everyone needs to speak Japanese, you can't have a conversation with the server team if you can't speak JP.

[Alhanelem]

If you have a smaller team everyone needs to speak Japanese, you can't have a conversation with the server team if you can't speak JP.
Lots of people outside of Japan know Japanese. And anyone who wants to work/live/move to Japan is going to learn the language.

[Pixela]

Ok well to be more clear, you have to be able to speak Japanese. Which is still a major hurdle that reduces the pool.

[Alhanelem]

Ok well to be more clear, you have to be able to speak Japanese. Which is still a major hurdle that reduces the pool.Any engineer talented and capable enough to work for a major development studio will do whatever it takes to get hired. Including learning a language.

[Pixela]

Most people who work on games are not engineers, also what you said is nonsense anyway.

[Velner]

I just want to add here... I know the grind seems really rough. But Goddamn, I got my Stage 3 Prime tonight and I am HYPED! And this hype is only justified by an insane grind. I LOVE it!

[Tarmarkvar]

I just want to add here... I know the grind seems really rough. But Goddamn, I got my Stage 3 Prime tonight and I am HYPED! And this hype is only justified by an insane grind. I LOVE it!

Congratulations! Which weapon? Is that the stage where you unlock the new weapon skill within Sortie? If so, what's it like?

I was going to ask what are the requirements for stage 4, but looks like 2.5 million gallimaufry, 3 hexahedrite, 10 voracious psyche. Good luck, and I hope the gallimaufry is the only one.

[Alhanelem]

Most people who work on games are not engineers, also what you said is nonsense anyway.You saying something doesn't make it true or even rational.

[Pixela]

Engineers are coders, are you saying everyone that works on a game is a coder?

[Sirmarki]

I just want to add here... I know the grind seems really rough. But Goddamn, I got my Stage 3 Prime tonight and I am HYPED! And this hype is only justified by an insane grind. I LOVE it!

Well, if you want the best, you gotta put the work in I suppose.

[Velner]

Congratulations! Which weapon? Is that the stage where you unlock the new weapon skill within Sortie? If so, what's it like?

I was going to ask what are the requirements for stage 4, but looks like 2.5 million gallimaufry, 3 hexahedrite, 10 voracious psyche. Good luck, and I hope the gallimaufry is the only one.

I chose the Greatsword. I haven't had a chance to use the Weaponskill yet because I made it after the Sortie run last night. I will get to play with it tonight and I can't wait!

[BobbinT]

Engineers are coders, are you saying everyone that works on a game is a coder?


coders, in a way, are another form of linguistics, which kinda one of base form of knowledge, which in this case trying to interpret languages between human & machine. Also it's not just on games, even other more important fields as well.

[Tarmarkvar]

You saying something doesn't make it true or even rational.

I think what Pixela is trying to say is that a creating a video game employs a bunch of other people who are not software engineers or programmers. For example, artists, musicians, and testers.

[Alhanelem]

I think what Pixela is trying to say is that a creating a video game employs a bunch of other people who are not software engineers or programmers. For example, artists, musicians, and testers.
And these people are even more likely to be among those working on site without speaking the language. The localization teams especially, but also artistic fields like you described. It really doesn't take away from my point at all. The portion of staff that aren't engineers is irrelevant.

[Gwydion]

Is it fair to say that in the eyes of most players, a mythic weapon is the largest source for pride and joy in a particular job's source of weapons? I don't think anyone holds any weapon in as high regard as that job's mythic weapon.

Why don't I feel the same way about Prime weapons? ...I mean, even if they have amazing damage potential, Mythics, some for more than others, actually transform or augment the play-style of that job.

It makes me upset.

[Pixela]

When Mythics were added they took forever to make, to the point of being nearly impossible for most people.

Anything new takes a long time, and over time the time and effort is reduced.

[Immortal]

Yeah but I feel these weapons are really lame imo. Most of them are just straight damage increases over previous options... nothing unique or special or cool. The majority of mythics had some crazy buffs to jobs like WHM being able to aoe -na spells, BLU having infinite MP, etc. I just wish they did something unique for these weapons... like I find even the bonanza weapons to be more enticing lol.

[Gwydion]

I agree as well. I love the damage potential of the new weapons, but I find the unique offering of the mog bonanza weapons way more enticing.

At the same time, if they would remove the RARE tag on Nyame gear, I feel like I'd have a lot more content to do. I could help other people get to V25 and rank 30 all of the odyssey gear. If I do that now, there's no incentive beyond capping RP ....which can't be spent once you augment a piece of armor.

It's like SE wants to only play 1 way and that's it. I would love to see play-style augments come from prime weapons and the RARE tag on NYAME gear removed.

[Sp1cyryan]

Yeah but I feel these weapons are really lame imo. Most of them are just straight damage increases over previous options... nothing unique or special or cool. The majority of mythics had some crazy buffs to jobs like WHM being able to aoe -na spells, BLU having infinite MP, etc. I just wish they did something unique for these weapons... like I find even the bonanza weapons to be more enticing lol.

I am sure you will work on them for all of your accounts.

[RichLester]

.. so how many people have managed to get prime weapon stage 2 (octahedrites) yet? What's the new weapon skill like & is it worth it comparing to REMA weapons maxed out? If it's not worth it, may as well just focus on getting empyrean +3 gear for several jobs, which defeats the point of the prime weapons. I just want a way of trading sapphires & eikondrites for gal. If they did that, that'll be good. It won't affect the balance of game at all as we need our empy+3 gear, along with a prime weapon.

[Velner]

.. so how many people have managed to get prime weapon stage 2 (octahedrites) yet? What's the new weapon skill like & is it worth it comparing to REMA weapons maxed out? If it's not worth it, may as well just focus on getting empyrean +3 gear for several jobs, which defeats the point of the prime weapons. I just want a way of trading sapphires & eikondrites for gal. If they did that, that'll be good. It won't affect the balance of game at all as we need our empy+3 gear, along with a prime weapon.

I have the Greatsword at Stage 3. The Weaponskill is very powerful. So much so that I use it as my primary weapon on DRK in Sortie now. I still have occasion to swap weapons when certain Skillchains are an issue, but when I have my choice, it's Helheim all the way.

[Sp1cyryan]

I see far too many people desperately hoping and fervently projecting when it comes to Stage 4 NM changes being some bug etc. The likelihood is that while the idea was solid, but very poorly implemented. It is not a bug at all, and you can stop going: "MAYBE?!"