Development Team Downsizing and Justification Makes no Sense

[Alhanelem]

It's called cutting your losses, when a big project fails they have to save money from any source they can. Which is what happened most recently I'm pretty sure.

Where is your evidence, sources.
I already cited my own google search (whose 1st search result was the playonline website), the other source is this forum.

This has nothing to do with cutting your losses. As I said, FFXI was already declining before FFXIV. The death of FFXIV 1.0 did not boost FFXI at all and it really should have. Now that last bit IS partly opinion, but it makes no logical sense that a bunch of FF fans (whom *allegedly* came from FFXI in large part) with no game to play would not come back to FFXI, even temporarily.

Yoshida could have pulled the plug on FFXI. SE's main offices put forth the idea of winding down the game. He actually wanted to save it, and he did. Source: the WE ARE VANADIEL website. Read over the interview with Naoki Yoshida.

[Catmato]

There's no way FFXIV caused that. FFXI was already going through rough times. 2011 was when Dynamis was changed and when Voidwatch came out, on the heels of abyssea, which is widely blamed by players for the game's decline.

Pixela's link to the We Are Vanadiel interview clearly says that they decided not to use budget and manpower for improving FFXI, but for a new game (FFXIV) instead. 2011, the year of the server merges, was also years after FFXIV started development and 6 months after FFXIV released and bombed. I think your timeline of events needs some review.

[Alhanelem]

Pixela's link to the We Are Vanadiel interview clearly says that they decided not to use budget and manpower for improving FFXI, but for a new game (FFXIV) instead. 2011, the year of the server merges, was also years after FFXIV started development and 6 months after FFXIV released and bombed. I think your timeline of events needs some review.
Abyssea and voidwatch were before that, and this was when a lot of people started quitting the game. No one knew when FFXIV was coming out at the time. Yes, development was in progress but I find it a stretch that anyone would think "oh, SE is making a new MMO, better quit FFXI now." Especially without really knowing what it is or what it would be like. And, as I said before, the cancellation of FFXIV had little impact on FFXI, which indicates that there wasn't some huge mass of players that quit XI for FFXIV because a lot of those players would likely have switched back after discovering how crap it was.

That last bit is certainly just a hypothesis, however it's logical and supported by the pattern of events at the time.


As far as the WE ARE VANADIEL site, I'm not referring to the same thing Pixela was.

[Sirmarki]

Pixela's link to the We Are Vanadiel interview clearly says that they decided not to use budget and manpower for improving FFXI, but for a new game (FFXIV) instead. 2011,

True - but then we saw RoV and TVR and you can tell a lot of work went in to those.

[Catmato]

Abyssea and voidwatch were before that, and this was when a lot of people started quitting the game. No one knew when FFXIV was coming out at the time. Yes, development was in progress but I find it a stretch that anyone would think "oh, SE is making a new MMO, better quit FFXI now." Especially without really knowing what it is or what it would be like. And, as I said before, the cancellation of FFXIV had little impact on FFXI, which indicates that there wasn't some huge mass of players that quit XI for FFXIV because a lot of those players would likely have switched back after discovering how crap it was.

That last bit is certainly just a hypothesis, however it's logical and supported by the pattern of events at the time.


As far as the WE ARE VANADIEL site, I'm not referring to the same thing Pixela was.

Right but your statement:


it's absolutely ridiculous to imply that FFXI had to suffer for FFXIV to succeed.

Is absolutely not true if you take this into account :


Rather than pouring manpower and budget into reconstructing a world that players had already thoroughly experienced, we felt that those resources would be better spent creating a new game with its own world and adventures. (source) (https://we-are-vanadiel.finalfantasyxi.com/post/?id=120&lang=en)

Resources that COULD have gone into FFXI instead went into FFXIV. Yes, population was declining before FFXIV released, but the resources were certainly allocated years prior to that.

[Alhanelem]

Resources that COULD have gone into FFXI instead went into FFXIV. Yes, population was declining before FFXIV released, but the resources were certainly allocated years prior to that. I'm not disputing the fact that they focused their efforts on making their new game. That's nothing out of the ordinary. But this was all behind the scenes and could not have influenced player counts, as we were still getting regular new content at this point.


And it is absolutely true that FFXI did not have to suffer for FFXIV to succeed. that's just not the decision that Tanaka made. SE is and was a massive publicly traded company and they didn't HAVE to divert resources or even use the same team in any way to build a new game.

My argument was and is that FFXIV is a symptom, not the cause, of FFXI's decline. FFXIV did not make FFXI go into decline. FFXI was already declining when they decided to take the step of focusing their efforts on a new game. And until that game was announced and revealed to the public, the players had no way of knowing that development focus had shifted to a new project and therefore couldn't just up and decide to start quitting in droves with the expectation a new MMO was on the way. FFXIV began because they had felt (at the time) like they had gotten all the mileage they could out of FFXI.

[Catmato]

I'm not disputing the fact that they focused their efforts on making their new game. That's nothing out of the ordinary. But this was all behind the scenes and could not have influenced player counts, as we were still getting regular new content at this point.
I strongly disagree. Players don't have to know exactly what's going on behind the scenes to feel the impact of resource reallocations. I also strongly disagree with getting "regular" updates. Throughout much of the development of FFXIV, updates were anything but regular.





And it is absolutely true that FFXI did not have to suffer for FFXIV to succeed. that's just not the decision that Tanaka made. SE is and was a massive publicly traded company and they didn't HAVE to divert resources or even use the same team in any way to build a new game.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood what you meant. I thought you were musing about what actually happened instead of some theoretical situation where SE had good management and infinite money.

Edit: forgot a word

[BobbinT]

It was declining, as a direct result of all resources being pulled so they could work on XIV. XI went literally 8 months+ without an update during WOTG, that whole time period was a huge crawl in terms of content/updates due to XIV. As a direct result (they also stopped advertising during this crunch to get XIV out) the game suffered, can see that easily before 1.0 came out. This caused a decline, which did turn around once Abyssea came out. This is because 1.0 flopped.




This saw an increase in XIs population and the devs decided to focus on the game as a result of the horrible 1.0 release/reception to tide them over until realm reborn.


Proud to say that I am one of those ppl. Though despite 1.0 failure, I did enjoy my time there, all the way to Dalamud descend, till server closes for good. Have a blast in Vana'diel completing every story chapters they had, till ARR came out which was around early Adoulin releases. Even during my time in 1.0, LS mates kept talking about how wonderful FF11 are, which did really drag me down to it.



Can't believe any1 would say FFXI was declining at that point, coz I still clearly remembers how terribly congested WKR is & even with all that, still took several days just to beat one, with me ends up camping on corner due to sleep & next thing floor-faced when woke & proceed to ask nearby to rez & continue participating. Even normal reives takes hours just to bring it down with fps really dips so low having so many participant, & saw how my BST, which I proudly grinded & helped finished story content prior to Adoulin, gets absolutely butchered & thus abandoned the job since.


Even Abyssea days gets really crowded, with ppl taking turns on worm parties, or normal xp camps like gusgen mines, crawler's nest, & bosta having very crowded as well. And this is happening on my server Bahamut, can't rly imagine how things goes over more populated servers like Asura back then.

[Immortal]

I'm not disputing the fact that they focused their efforts on making their new game. That's nothing out of the ordinary. But this was all behind the scenes and could not have influenced player counts, as we were still getting regular new content at this point.


And it is absolutely true that FFXI did not have to suffer for FFXIV to succeed. that's just not the decision that Tanaka made. SE is and was a massive publicly traded company and they didn't HAVE to divert resources or even use the same team in any way to build a new game.

My argument was and is that FFXIV is a symptom, not the cause, of FFXI's decline. FFXIV did not make FFXI go into decline. FFXI was already declining when they decided to take the step of focusing their efforts on a new game. And until that game was announced and revealed to the public, the players had no way of knowing that development focus had shifted to a new project and therefore couldn't just up and decide to start quitting in droves with the expectation a new MMO was on the way. FFXIV began because they had felt (at the time) like they had gotten all the mileage they could out of FFXI.

My god you literally cannot admit you are wrong in any form. You were just called out as being WRONG, so take the damn L and move on. FFXI did suffer as a result of XIV, its been explained to you multiple times with evidence from the damn devs and producers themselves. If that isn't enough, nothing will be because anyone could easily see that just based on the fact they chose to advertise XIV over XI a million times over. XIV was the direct cause to XIs decline due to the severely limited budget and of course the resources being pulled meant less quality in all areas including advertisement and updates. The players knew this back then, when we went literally 8+ months without an update and rumors were already spreading about "Rapture"

[Alhanelem]

I strongly disagree. Players don't have to know exactly what's going on behind the scenes to feel the impact of resource reallocations.So what exactly was going on at this time that would give you insight into the impact of resource reallocations? We were still getting large scale new contents at the time. I disagree with your notion that there was anything at all to give any indication to players (before the reveal of the new game) that focus was being shifted to a new project.



so take the damn L and move on.This isn't a contest, there is no L to take. Opinions can't be wrong. "I"m not disputing..." the purported fact being presented doesn't affect my opinion. Still doesn't. Opinion. OPINION. o-p-n-i-o-n.



Sorry, I must have misunderstood what you meant. I thought you were musing about what actually happened instead of some theoretical situation where SE had good management and infinite money.I never said SE had infintie money lol. Just that they have the resources to work on more than one project at a time without compromising either one. SE has multiple development studios and divisions. I think the only reason this decision was made was because they put the guy in charge of FFXI in charge of the new project. Why, I don't know, I can only suppose that it's because he had experience directing an MMO. In hindsight, that really didn't do them much good did it- since they basically ended up firing the team behind XIV 1.0 and forming a new one.

Anyway, my point remains the same: Everyone here is blaming FFXIV for everything that happened/is happening to FFXI, but the reality is FFXIV was a product of the state of FFXI- If FFXI had become the same big mega-hit as WoW did, I doubt they would have been considering a new project when they did. Opinion, of course, but you don't cast aside something that is doing well (unless you have no business sense...)

I can understand why people think and feel that way, considering the facts presented. But I maintain that FFXIV was a product of FFXI's declining popularity, rather than the cause of it.

[Immortal]

So what exactly was going on at this time that would give you insight into the impact of resource reallocations? We were still getting large scale new contents at the time. I disagree with your notion that there was anything at all to give any indication to players (before the reveal of the new game) that focus was being shifted to a new project.


8 months+ between updates during WOTG.... Surely nobody s aw it coming


Just that they have the resources to work on more than one project at a time without compromising either one. SE has multiple development studios and divisions. I think the only reason this decision was made was because they put the guy in charge of FFXI in charge of the new project. Why, I don't know, I can only suppose that it's because he had experience directing an MMO. In hindsight, that really didn't do them much good did it- since they basically ended up firing the team behind XIV 1.0 and forming a new one.

Yes but they essentially used almost all the same team and RESOURCES on the beginning of XIV 1.0.... You really think that had 0 impact on XI? The interview spells it out for you in plain letters.



Anyway, my point remains the same: Everyone here is blaming FFXIV for everything that happened/is happening to FFXI, but the reality is FFXIV was a product of the state of FFXI- If FFXI had become the same big mega-hit as WoW did, I doubt they would have been considering a new project when they did. Opinion, of course, but you don't cast aside something that is doing well (unless you have no business sense...)

I can understand why people think and feel that way, considering the facts presented. But I maintain that FFXIV was a product of FFXI's declining popularity, rather than the cause of it.

The game never had to be a WoW killer, if that was the case they would only copy popular games like candy crush and WoW going forward for any project they did. They've been shown to be really bad at business multiple times through multiple games and directions they've taken the company. They are just too prideful to back down in most cases...

[Catmato]

So what exactly was going on at this time that would give you insight into the impact of resource reallocations? We were still getting large scale new contents at the time. I disagree with your notion that there was anything at all to give any indication to players (before the reveal of the new game) that focus was being shifted to a new project.
What Draylo said. I just said players felt the impact of the focus shift; not that they necessarily knew what was causing the lack of content.


o-p-n-i-o-n.


opnion


I never said SE had infintie money lol.

I know you never said that; I was using hyperbole. You used the phrase "had to" in an abstract manner saying in the grand scheme, it wasn't required for FFXI to suffer in order for FFXIV to succeed. I thought you meant that it didn't, in fact, suffer, which is absolutely not based in this reality.



Anyway, my point remains the same: Everyone here is blaming FFXIV for everything that happened/is happening to FFXI...

I can understand why people think and feel that way, considering the facts presented. But I maintain that FFXIV was a product of FFXI's declining popularity, rather than the cause of it.
It can be both. FFXIV has been taking resources that could have been used for FFXI for well over half of FFXI's existence.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't blame FFXIV for anything; it's an inanimate game. I blame SE and Tanaka for pulling resources from FFXI at a time when they could have turned the metaphorical ship around. Whether that would have meant refactoring the code completely to get rid of the PS2 devkit dependency while they still employed the programmers who wrote it, just pulling their heads out of their asses and developing content that people could actually get excited for, or something else entirely.

I don't blame FFXIV, that's just where the pulled resources happened to go.

[Sp1cyryan]

The resources were leaving anyway. Have we not all grasped that simple fact? Let's not be grumpy fanatics.

[Alhanelem]

What Draylo said. I just said players felt the impact of the focus shift; not that they necessarily knew what was causing the lack of content.This interview is talking about when FFXIV 1.0 was in development. At this time there wasn't any sort of lack of content in our updates- At least I certainly don't remember getting that impression. I'd agree with you if this was near or post-audolin times, but this was much earlier than that.



I blame SE and Tanaka for pulling resources from FFXI at a time when they could have turned the metaphorical ship around.I respect your perspective on this, but you have to remember this was a business decision. They felt like they would be more financially successful with a new game that can attract a lot of new players vs trying to keep a ship from sinking. And at this time there wasn't really an accepted rule as to whether sequelling an MMO was a good idea or not- Few games other than Ultima and Everquest had been around remotely long enough to demonstrate how long an MMO can truly last.

It wasn't til later that they realized "Wow, there's still quite a few people playing this and it's worth our time to keep things going a while longer" because players of FFXI and FFXIV were substantially different and there wasn't a ton of overlap.



8 months+ between updates during WOTG.... I don't recall us ever going 8 months without an update of any sort, at least during the time period relevant to this discussion? Even today we *technically* still get updates on a monthly basis. Even the updates that actually add things hadn't been 8 months apart.

[Immortal]

Look it up, it happened and I lived thru it lol. I remember tons of people then were contemplating quitting because we literally were bored to death doing the same content rotation for years... The latest thing they added was those dumb NM fights you started w/a pixie and gotten the worst side grade augments ever seen.

[Catmato]

I don't recall us ever going 8 months without an update of any sort, at least during the time period relevant to this discussion? Even today we *technically* still get updates on a monthly basis. Even the updates that actually add things hadn't been 8 months apart.

Maybe there was never 8 months between actual version updates, but if you look here (https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Category:Update_History), you can see that there are many instances of going three months or longer between version updates. Some of these updates added little more than a few quests and some job adjustments; nothing substantial.


I respect your perspective on this, but you have to remember this was a business decision

I understand that it was a business decision. I can't say whether it was the right one or not, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

[Alhanelem]

I think the key here, especially in the context of the time, is there was no pre-existing standard for how to handle the kind of situation they were in. MMORPGs were the earliest "live service" games. Even from before they were released, they had an expected lifespan that was unknown to the players. But as time went on, they realized that people were willing to play these games a lot longer than they thought. I highly doubt we'll see a Final Fantasy ## Online until FFXIV is basically dead.

[Pixela]

They will never make another mmorpg if they have any sense, there has never been a group of players more attached as ff14 players and if they ever do anything to that like what they did with 11 they will lose their minds.

[Alhanelem]

They will never make another mmorpg if they have any sense, there has never been a group of players more attached as ff14 players and if they ever do anything to that like what they did with 11 they will lose their minds.
I mean both games will eventually and truly die. It's entirely possible that the realm will be re-reborn but beyond that, FFXIV will have to die before SE makes another MMORPG in the final fantasy universe. They could certainly make one with a different IP though.

[Immortal]

Wait says who? They aren't as smart as you give them credit for. They will probably make another MMO to surpass XIV just like they did with XI, I will get some twisted satisfaction from watching it happen too, sorry to say. Those XIV players hated on XI for the longest time until it was no longer relevant, I never forget!

[Alhanelem]

Wait says who? They aren't as smart as you give them credit for. They will probably make another MMO to surpass XIV just like they did with XI, I will get some twisted satisfaction from watching it happen too, sorry to say. Those XIV players hated on XI for the longest time until it was no longer relevant, I never forget!
Sorry but I'm gonna go with "they're not as stupid as you don't give them credit for"

I probably could have written something more thoughtful but why bother lol

[Sp1cyryan]

Wait says who? They aren't as smart as you give them credit for. They will probably make another MMO to surpass XIV just like they did with XI, I will get some twisted satisfaction from watching it happen too, sorry to say. Those XIV players hated on XI for the longest time until it was no longer relevant, I never forget!

Stop holding such an incredibly petty grudge over vague sentiment from mostly former XI players. It's beyond foolish.

[DoctooOkay]

Now, now, petty grudges are the bedrock upon which all successful video game franchises are built.

[Sp1cyryan]

Now, now, petty grudges are the bedrock upon which all successful video game franchises are built.

User name checks out.

[Pixela]

There was a dedicated hate mob of early XIV players that wanted XI to die because they saw us not moving to their game as the reason it originally flopped and feared about ARR going the same way. However that was a long time ago now, most current XIV players are from WoW and never played XI at all.

XIV is a conduit for new players and relevance in 2023 so it's counter productive to hate it too much, I don't like XIV as a game since it's antithesis of what I like in an mmorpg but it's silly to not see the folly of alienating the XIV community.

The XIV races being designed on the XI races ended up being an asset, just not in the way they originally intended.

Plus both games are financially merged now, so XIV players don't see it as a competitor and indeed many see it as the answer to 14's casual nature.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/482132-The-truth-is-we-need-a-remastered-XI-or-a-follow-up

[Alhanelem]

There was a dedicated hate mob of early XIV players that wanted XI to die because they saw us not moving to their game as the reason it originally flopped and feared about ARR going the same way. [Citation needed]

I know of absolutely no one in FFXIV who ever said they wanted FFXI to die, and FFXIV 1.0 had about a million problems that virtually everyone who played it agreed on, soo the idea that 1.0 flopped becuase not enough XI players joined is beyond insane and ridiculous.

1.0 was nearly universally panned by everyone who played it. It had absolutely nothing to do with player counts and everything to do with 1.0 being literal garbage.

Even the staunchest fans of FFXIV today for the most part won't defend 1.0. There are a small number of people who thought the game was decent once jobs were added in the last few updates before it was shut down, but at the time of its launch it was bad enough that hardly anybody wanted to play it. No one could argue with a straight face that they thought "if only more FFXI players joined...."

[Pixela]

There was, on xiah, on reddit and in the game.

Keep in mind I am talking about back in the day, not today.

[Sp1cyryan]

There was, on xiah, on reddit and in the game.

Keep in mind I am talking about back in the day, not today.

Once again, players connected to XI in one way or another did this. Players that join XIV without a connection to XI rarely speak negatively about it. Even then, it wouldn't matter. Draylo is just ridiculous about any perceived slight towards FFXI. FFXIV 1.0 came out in 2010. It is time to get over it.

[Pixela]

We know who they were, didn't change what they did and how it riled people up for years.

You're pretty high and mighty lately, you were no different than the rest of us and don't pretend otherwise. You talked crap on 14, private servers and all the other stuff.

[Immortal]

He is going thru his doomer phase and tries to pretend he has some moral high ground now. Even though only a few short months ago he made a thread about people botting in 2023. Oh but its everyone else that needs to let things go lol

[Immortal]

Sorry but I'm gonna go with "they're not as stupid as you don't give them credit for"

I probably could have written something more thoughtful but why bother lol

Time will tell, but surely it will be some ARPG that shits all over anything FF was about in the past and all the tiktoking crowd will love it or something

[BobbinT]

Wait says who? They aren't as smart as you give them credit for. They will probably make another MMO to surpass XIV just like they did with XI, I will get some twisted satisfaction from watching it happen too, sorry to say. Those XIV players hated on XI for the longest time until it was no longer relevant, I never forget!


As me who plays both 11 & 14, (& also 1.0, which makes me also a legacy), I highly disagree, especially added that I also plays all of FF mainline series as well. If you're true FF fans, you CAN'T compare each individual titles since they have their own unique features.



Ppl who hates 11 over 14, or 14 over 11, are either too afraid to try, or just plain ignorantly rude that doesn't even know the "FF" brands. I love both 11 & 14 equally.

[Sp1cyryan]

He is going thru his doomer phase and tries to pretend he has some moral high ground now. Even though only a few short months ago he made a thread about people botting in 2023. Oh but its everyone else that needs to let things go lol

I don't need to pretend anything. Especially when there is no high ground to compete for.

Are all of your posts just some canned contrarianism lately? Then again, it's not like you can be debated with so this is one of the better outcomes from you wiggling those fingers around.

[Alhanelem]

There was, on xiah, on reddit and in the game.

Keep in mind I am talking about back in the day, not today.
From day one few people liked 1.0, it set records for how hard it crashed and burned for an MMO. I'm not going to say zero people liked it, but it was wildly unpopular and anyone who actually did do what you say was a super tiny minority making some loud noises.

[BobbinT]

also to add note as one being part of legacy player here:

It's true that 1.0 was "lacking", but I still believe way back then, if given more time to polish, today might have a different path on how original version goes. Gotta admit, despite all those failures, 1.0 actually had a deep lore, something I found similar to other FF series. For example, as me starting on Gridania, it touches it's own dilemma regarding elemental sickness & how all need to bring things into balance, sadly these were being dumbed down on 2.0 as mere affliction. Or that shady antagonist elezen figure on Limsa part of story, which ends up as being mere mention & slideshow as part on 3.x Alexander alliance raid series.


When 2.0 arrives, while some who never experience 1.0 found it much more fun playability-wise, some of legacies found that some things had to be cut down in order to met the original promise for PS3 port limitations: reduced graphic qualities (aka no "bumps") or how when we zoomed in our gears which shows how detailed the stitching on our garments which became very ugly mess on 2.0 onward, areas that were originally seamless near non-loading into smaller separated zones, contents being cut down without a mention like Hamlet (there's archived 1.0 lodestone news that actually lists achievement lists not carried over to 2.0, with Hamlet not being mentioned there). Even 2.0 itself back then felt too boring with way too much filler unnecessary mini stories, something that majority complained & SE finally caved, thus trimmed alot of those on much later date. Admittedly, the feels when I started playing 1.0 were way more magical than how 2.0 was delivered 1st time, granted that by the time I started 1.0, some of those old obnoxious features like that fatigue system already gone & makes the game much more enjoyable.



In the end, from eye-to-eye comparison, 2.0 just plain boring & didn't have that depth of lore feels found on 1.0 or other FF titles. Heck, majority of 2.0 content contains copy-pasted features found mostly from FF11 libraries with FF13 stuff thrown as part of end-game raid content back then. It was starts to get more interesting post 2.0 stories, leading to its 1st expansion & continues to improve much more leading to what we currently have, & did manage to make the title became award-winning. which should have been for part of mainline FF, despite they still carries borrowed content from other FF series.


Still... it never stops me thinking... what would the story evolves if there was never a Dalamud moon falling, what if 1.0 didn't fail. Every time I brought this topic, some did wonder as well.


When 1.0 did close down for good & waiting for 2.0, finally gave the chance to try FF11, which I should've done decade earlier, but being barred with expensive dial-up net costs compared to decade later when net became much faster with cheaper cost. Sure, by that time, graphic & content-wise felt much inferior, but somehow it does have that unique charms that every mainline FF series does, which is main reason why I also love this, even more than their offline series counterparts. And it's still fun to play all the way currently, hence every time on return home campaign always taking semi-hiatus on FF14 to focus on FF11, only briefly touch FF14 to cap weekly stuff real quick (thanks to hunt tours which easily cap my weekly tomes in under an hour). Personally wish could invest more on FF11, & would if SE would even consider making effort on their payment options like FF14 does, like discounts when subbing per 3 months or half yearly plans or that crysta gametime cards, one which still begs me to wonder as to why SE still kept sticking on just a single monthly plan which is more expensive. There's always tons of stuff to do every time coming back to FF11, just hoping that this game still lives on despite the structural changes.

[Pixela]

From day one few people liked 1.0, it set records for how hard it crashed and burned for an MMO. I'm not going to say zero people liked it, but it was wildly unpopular and anyone who actually did do what you say was a super tiny minority making some loud noises.

You are correct but that's how our minds work.

A minority of wow players attacked ff14 for many years, which made ff14 players hate wow.

[Alhanelem]

It's true that 1.0 was "lacking", but I still believe way back then, if given more time to polish, today might have a different path on how original version goes.A large part of the problem was the world was made unnecessairly massive by pure copy and paste, and for how huge the areas were, there was basically nothing in them. The game launched with almost no content whatsoever. And the combat system changed wholesale like 3 times from first alpha (I was among the very first few to enter the world in the first alpha test)to the initial launch. If the game had been given like another year (at least) it probably could have turned out better.

They also teased us a lot by populating huge swaths of the map with enemies dozens of levels above the level cap, and to earn the achievements for revealing the map you actually had to visit teleport locations surrounded by level 90+ mobs at level 50.

[Pixela]

He is going thru his doomer phase and tries to pretend he has some moral high ground now.

https://i.imgur.com/203PJ6E.jpg

pathetic

[Teraniku]

Ppl who hates 11 over 14, or 14 over 11, are either too afraid to try, or just plain ignorantly rude that doesn't even know the "FF" brands. I love both 11 & 14 equally.

I've played both and stayed with 11, XIV is way to WoW like for my tastes , and I hate maintenance costs on everything, but that's just me.

[Alhanelem]

I maintain a sub to both games, even though i'm not always active in one or the other, I like to be able to come back to it whenever I feel like and not wait for campaigns. They both have things that make them special and fun and they both hold special places in my heart.

[Pixela]

So for people who don't know, YoshiP leads an entire division that was made to update and create MMORPG titles. XIV, XI and Dragonquest 10 online, among a few others. However he argued that he should be allowed to make ff16 and they allowed him (which they should of never done imo), and gave him a lot of money to do so. Now it's looking as if ff16 isn't going to do so well and pre-order sales are awful (especially in Japan) and so obviously this is a big deal for his entire division now.

Which is why he will be cutting budgets on anything he can cut budgets (YoshiP is directly in charge of budget allocation for 11) on and putting all efforts into ff16 for "18 months after sales" to try make it profitable in the long term, becasue it's surely won't be in the short term.

It also points out one of the biggest lies in gaming the "shipped" meme, where the company "ships" millions of copies of a game to outlets and then the outlets quietly return almost all of them months later when they don't sell, cause shipped doesn't mean sales.

Telling interview if you cba to read it all, the very last line most of all.


Ochiai: This might be a weird question to ask but since you have put so much passion and effort into creating this game, when it comes to management, how do you approach on the sales aspect here (read: translate it into profits and sales)? In terms of timing and your target audience and so on.
YoshiP: So when it comes to product, when I first submit my proposal, it's a given that I would attached together with the budget documentation, like this will be the platform where the game will be released, development wise it'll take a grand total of this amount, when the game will be released, the cost for marketing and PR will take this much, and the projected profit will be around this much...these will of course be included into the documentation...but I can tell you that I wouldn't want to look at the first week sales for FFXVI (laughs).

Ochiai: (laughs) But still, I take that the board of directors came together and approved the budget you're issuing during the meeting I assume

YoshiP: Yes that was indeed the case, but when it comes to FF, there are places where you can't turn back once you get into it. but I'm being quite drastic here, and precisely because I'm a creator here, I have to be particular about the business aspect, and if I'm just creating this game out of self-satisfaction, it will definitely not connect to the next. So even though if I get told that it was a fun game, but if this doesn't translate to sales then we won't be able to create the next game. So our policy at Creative Business Unit 3 here is that at the very least, create a game where you yourself think it's interesting, and make the game earn in black numbers (※A Japanese word meaning "profit", loss of profit is "red numbers"), even if it's just a little. By doing so, we will still get money and we'll be able to work on the games we like or things that we think are interesting so I think this time.......well......well if I think this wouldn't work out, I'd actually go destroy those projects myself, like, "I'm sorry this is impossible" and then work on other projects to supplement it, and yeah I would tell them to cancel this project. I mean, I've already done this numerous times throughout my career but still, yeah since I can't turn back this time when it comes to creating this game and I told them that we'll try to sell it all out so allow me to put this amount of budget I need for this game. The answer I got from them was "Yeah, do your best"...so...yeah. But then I've been generating profits from FFXIV anyway, and manage to contribute a lot to the company and it was thanks to the Warriors of Light that made it happen, so it was hard for the company to say "no" to what I've proposed I assume (laughs).

Ochiai: Since I do not have any experience in game sales here, but you previously mentioned that if you go with the selling out pattern, then you can somewhat see the how the next implementation will be, and sometimes there are cases where this isn't what's the approach taken when it comes to sales pattern so my question is how, or at which timing would you be able to grasp on how the sales of the game will end up when it comes to today's context?
YoshiP: By the way, the system of lump-sum payment is applicable only in Japan※1 but when it comes to overseas, basically if you can just "break in" if you want to. This can be weird, but they basically just go "just purchase a shelf". What this means is that, let's take a street-level store for example: when release date approaches there will be other games released along with your game, yes? You can brush all of them aside and say you want to place one huge portion of the segment to sell, say, FF16, then you can ask them how much do you need to pay them to do so, and they'll do so. They would also tell you that you can ship them as many copies as you want to and they'll return the extra copies that they couldn't sell. Therefore to see how sales would fare will be starting from...the amount of pre-orders...but when it comes to pre-orders, anyone can pre-order whenever they want to these days and not many would do so....so sales wise we'll look at the first week, to see how many have purchased the game digitally as well as from wholesale dealers, so the sell out starts there, and the rest will be predictions: How much the game has reached the hands of gamers, so predictions will be made. So we'll use those detailed data in advance and create a simulation. The reason is because we'll have proof at hand on how much the copies have reached the players. For example, for FFVII Remake, we calculate based on what we can see how many user base do we have and calculate from there, so judging from the content we have this time, we can estimate that there are certain generation base that hasn't played a single Final Fantasy game purchased this game but since we are making it a full real time action, we can calculate once on how much it has dropped in percentage for certain player base who would prefer turn based Final Fantasy games and create a simulation based on that, but ultimately the results cannot be certain until we open the lid (read: release the game) so it can be hard to tell.

※1 - YoshiP's original Japanese sentence was "ちなみに買取なのは日本だけなので”. 買取 in Japanese can be different depending on the subject discussion on hand, and the standard meaning for this word is buyback, as in trading in used goods to get back some amount of money. But considering that's definitely NOT what it means... See here for more info

Ochiai: Like for example when it comes to movies, as movies run a duration of usually 2 hours when it comes to content, so in a way we can easily see how it performs, but when it comes to games, it takes time to complete them from start to finish so it's tougher to grasp how the behavior would change. So this is my personal thoughts on the matter but how do you approach the post-release sales period like for example, to see if there's a change in certain behavior, or see if your game makes it to the ranking, and by looking at these, what kind of marketing strategy would you take after the game is released?
YoshiP: When it comes to sales extension, well, this can slightly different from country to country, but when it comes to Japan, I can bring up one good example which is Slam Dunk (which is recently aired in theaters).

For the generations who are fans of the show, they would be extremely interested about it, but there was a commotion when it comes to the promotion prior to its release and this caused everyone to have doubts. But once the fans watched the movie, they'd go "You better watch this movie!", or they'd go recommend those who haven't watch the movie but expressed interest in it and nothing beats that kind of attraction when it comes to what PR can do even today. Though as for me, I'd go back to my roots, and convey properly on how the game has been made and released properly, and if people find the game interesting, streamers from all around the world who will be streaming this game will convey their comments and the louder those voices are, then it might encourage others who hasn't buy the game yet to give it a try, purchase a PS5 along. Another thing I've realized that younger generations don't tend to be particular about the release date, and tend to based their purchase on what's popular within their community circles, and what everyone is playing. In fact this is what happened when it comes to Apex, Fortnite, and this is definitely what the trend is heading towards today, so what I did is to make estimations on budget, lay out the plan saying "FFXVI is coming out", and made simple approach to try getting the shop to convince gamers to get FFXVI together with their PS5 purchase. Therefore this time, I've laid out a plan on sales that would last about 18 months.※2 Even when looking at the ownership ratio for PS5, there's no mistake that there will a drop in absolute ratio rather than looking at the games that are released for both PS4 and PS5.

Ochiai: Yeah, that's right.

YoshiP: I mean, yeah, it would be idiotic for anyone to not make these calculations beforehand, which is why it's important to consider the sales in a long term and extend them for as long as it can be, and then from the sales that have accumulated through these long months, we can see up to which extend people have played the game, and since we can see data in the achievements people obtain in game, we can tell how much people are stuck at certain aspects, and so on. From there we may make adjustments so that it'll be easier for people to obtain them, and we wouldn't need it to be an online game to do so. Therefore, I'm not looking at the short term sales at all.

※2 - In Japan, this method is called じわ売れ (Jiwa Ure), an internet lingo literally translates to "Gradual Selling".

[Alhanelem]

So for people who don't know, YoshiP leads an entire division that was made to update and create MMORPG titles.FFXVI is not an MMORPG. Their first project was FFXIV, and they have custody of the FFXI project now. (but didn't develop it, obviously) Saying they were created to make MMORPGs is disingenuous at best when they've made one MMORPG and are making one not-MMPORPG. That isn't a pattern.



and I hate maintenance costs on everything,Not sure what you're talking about here. Repairing gear? It's a trivial cost. Teleporting? Trivial. Gil isn't even that important in FFXIV unless you're trying to world first the next raid or you're passionate about glamour or estate decoration.

Every MMO has money sinks to limit economy bloat. FFXI is no different.

[ManaKing]

PS5 exclusive is all that is wrong with XVI. It would have sold fine already if it was on steam

[Pixela]

Sony obviously paid them a lot of money for 6 month+ exclusivity, which was probably the correct decision.

I don't even want to know what the budget was for the game, but it's disgraceful XIV and XI players are going to effectively be eating gruel for a while to pay for the failures of XVI.

[ManaKing]

If it was the correct decision, then we wouldn't be 'eating gruel'. It would be planned for and there wouldn't be overt nay saying.

If anything they side stepped the release window for Zelda. They weren't going to come out ahead in that race.

There isn't some obvious path that leads to XI not being downsized. It's old and not massively popular. At least someone cares to try to do maintenance to keep it going.

[Pixela]

The game is pretty terrible in every way from what I've seen, the more they show it off the less people are interested in it.

To use some examples, Nier Automata had amazing music, really appealing characters and a story you wanted to know more about.
Devil May Cry had amazing music, a cool setting and cool characters.

What does FF16 have to attract people? the summons...the dog?

At least with exclusives they get a guaranteed payout.

Also Yoshida has been farming L's with his interviews, he needs to stop giving them.

[Alhanelem]

PS5 exclusive is all that is wrong with XVI. It would have sold fine already if it was on steam
It's only timed exclusivity, it will come out on PC eventually.



The game is pretty terrible in every way from what I've seen, the more they show it off the less people are interested in it.Stop trying to act as though you represent everyone. Your opinions are your own and you're welcome to them, but you don't represent anyone but yourself.

[Immortal]

It's only timed exclusivity, it will come out on PC eventually.


Stop trying to act as though you represent everyone. Your opinions are your own and you're welcome to them, but you don't represent anyone but yourself.

This is too funny to read this here...

[Sp1cyryan]

This is too funny to read this here...

You certainly do know the meaning of funny.

[Alhanelem]

This is too funny to read this here...
I mean, I now slap disclaimers on posts just for you. I shouldn't really have to do that, but because I like you so much, I'm making gosh darn clear to you when I'm giving an opinion.

[Immortal]

So proud of you :)

[BobbinT]

... it's disgraceful XIV and XI players are going to effectively be eating gruel for a while to pay for the failures of XVI.


personally it doesn't rly hurt much, being both games already contains huge content. Also, can't think of making another huge disaster like that grand FF movie, right? ^^;

[Alhanelem]

It is hilarious how we have people here assuming FFXVI will fail just because they love FFXI and think that FFXVI hurts the game. There is literally no basis whatsoever for assuming it will fail. Your personal disintrest has virtually no bearing on the game's success or lack thereof. Until people actually get to play it, I don't really see any validity to this argument.

[Pixela]

It looks terrible in every way, they will lie abotu 1000 million shipped or whatever (as I said in the other thread) but I can't see it actually selling many copies compared to 15 or 7r. It's souless.

[Immortal]

It honestly does, I was just watching a demo of it yesterday and it looks meh to me. The mobs are all HP sponges that take the same combo being repeated over and over to finally take them down... The magic looks weak, the graphics have something off about them that I can't put my finger on. The UI is horrible looking also

[Alhanelem]

The mobs are all HP sponges that take the same combo being repeated over and over to finally take them down...
Sounds a lot like FFXI to me

[Pixela]

It's an action game, having hp sponges in an action game is just going to give you a sore thumb for no reason.

[Alhanelem]

It's an action game, having hp sponges in an action game is just going to give you a sore thumb for no reason.
all action games have "HP sponges." Still smells like "CBU3 controls it therefore it is bad."

[Immortal]

Sounds a lot like FFXI to me

Different game styles... cmon.

[Alhanelem]

Different game styles... cmon.
As I just said, any game that involves killing things has "HP sponges." This is just biased criticism because FFXVI's existence supposedly hurts FFXI. Give it an honest play when it comes out and then we'll talk.

Personally I don't own a ps5 or any Sony devices for that matter so I'll have to wait for the PC version.

[Immortal]

Um no, that is so wrong.. Clearly never played DMC which this game is literally copying. Go look up the demo gameplay for 16, its literally an ogre, a regular mob, that takes them over 3m to kill lol

[Alhanelem]

Clearly never played DMC which this game is literally copying.If they were "literally copying" it, it would have the same characters story and everything and Capcom would be suing them. So no, they aren't "literally copying" anything.

[BobbinT]

Um no, that is so wrong.. Clearly never played DMC which this game is literally copying. Go look up the demo gameplay for 16, its literally an ogre, a regular mob, that takes them over 3m to kill lol


well... both companies probably ok anyways, they did have a collab between FF14 & MonHun, even that trial fight are perma-stay as well, including gears, mount, & minion rewards. Players receptions are even overwhelmingly positives, like how GARO franchise also crossover as well & how their gears & mounts absolutely fantastic. Even hyped more when Nier also integrated more than just crossover, but even as part of alliance raid story, which also has similar DMC gameplay. SE even add their own street fighter concept back on FF6 with Sabin chara as well on how to perform his special moves.


Can't help with minority that prefers franchise on their respective sides, can't really please every1.

[Pixela]

lol at the number of people working on swtor (70), when it's a f2p game with 5 servers and square treat 11 like this.

https://www.ign.com/articles/star-wars-the-old-republic-development-third-party-bioware?utm_source=twitter

[Alhanelem]

lol at the number of people working on swtor (70), when it's a f2p game with 5 servers and square treat 11 like this.

https://www.ign.com/articles/star-wars-the-old-republic-development-third-party-bioware?utm_source=twitter
f2p games make way more money.

[Pixela]

f2p games make way more money.

You know what I'm saying.

[Immortal]

I did see a video on that earlier and think of XI... they treat this game like the red headed step child lol. I have a suspicion that game is gonna get shut down though soon, just my feeling.

[Catmato]

If they were "literally copying" it, it would have the same characters story and everything and Capcom would be suing them. So no, they aren't "literally copying" anything.

it's hyperbole (https://googlethatforyou.com?q=hyperbole)

[Sp1cyryan]

I did see a video on that earlier and think of XI... they treat this game like the red headed step child lol. I have a suspicion that game is gonna get shut down though soon, just my feeling.

Wow, what a doomer.

[Pixela]

It's interesting that even EA are afraid of the bad press of closing an mmorpg, even though it's pretty small with 5 servers as a f2p game.

[Alhanelem]

it's hyperbole (https://googlethatforyou.com?q=hyperbole)
You should probably review the definition of "literally," as this word cannot be used to exaggerate given its meaning. In fact most people make poor use of it, because it only has real meaningful use in contrasting with "figuratively."

[Catmato]

You should probably review the definition of "literally," as this word cannot be used to exaggerate given its meaning. In fact most people make poor use of it, because it only has real meaningful use in contrasting with "figuratively."

See definition 2 (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally), unless you know more than Merriam-Webster?

[Pixela]

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/479766-Yoshi-P-lied

True, and also heavily impacted 11 too.

[Alhanelem]

I dsagree with just about every point in that post. I've had something to do in every patch this expansion and I entirely disagree with the notion that there's been less content.



Just for fun, I'll address them, since I can't post there.


-Ultimates only cater to an extreme minority of the population (something like sub-1% of players and we are all aware how much cheating is used in that subset anyway)This is technically true, yes, but they don't release these every day so I don't see the problem



-Crystalline Conflict was a cool attempt to revive PvP, but their refusal to add a casual mode or ranked mode where you can queue with friends has already resulted in this being dead too.Flat out false, as it had both a casual and a ranked mode from the start. The reason you can't queue with others is becuase of the inherent gameplay advantage of premades against randoms. There are custom modes for those who want to play with a bunch of friends.




-Criterion dungeons were a massive lazy flop with garbage rewards.Subjective. "garbage" is nonsense. Amazing? no.




-They've done nothing with BLU nor added other limited jobs.
Blatantly false as BLU was just updated. Aside from this, no one wants more limited jobs so this is a good thing. Key word "limited." People want full jobs, not limited jobs.



-The relics have been the laziest they've ever done. Whether you enjoy this step or not I'm sure you can agree on that. You can finish each step in a single day for MULTIPLE jobs and all you do is roulettes, nothing new.the whole point of these quest lines was to put people back in the queue for existing contents so that people who NEED to do them can still clear them. (And most players in FFXIV are not nearly as tolerant of long grinds as we are in FFXI)




-The new deep dungeon while appreciated isn't anything special. HoH changed the formula from PotD up a bit but EO is just a carbon copy of the two more or less. There's some new pomanders and new random enemies, that's it. No surprises. HoH added massive stadium rooms full of enemies and the special summon pomanders at least, what did EO add? Nothing.
Full stop disagree. I'd say random NMs appearing in your path that one or two-shot you constitutes a "surprise." And I'm really confused here, because HoH did not add any summon pomanders, while EO in fact did. Did this guy even play the content?



-Island Sanctuary while cute has been really shallow in what it actually delivers in terms of content. It's just a lazy boring daily grind when you boil it down. We can debate how fun or interesting one thinks this content is, but content is content, and the original point of the post was to illustrate a supposed lack of content. So far we've talked about several major new contents. Not liking them all doesn't make them not new content.

-The MSQ bits have all been incredibly short, padded by forcing the patch cycle trials into the MSQ when they were side quests in every other expansion after ARR.False. If anything the new MSQ story is longer than most of the previous, and you can be 100% sure that in a year or two newer players are actually going to complain about how long it is.

[Catmato]

Are you lost? This is the FFXI forum, not FFXIV. Just because you're banned from the FFXIV side, doesn't mean you should just makes walls of text about it here.

[Alhanelem]

Are you lost? This is the FFXI forum, not FFXIV. Just because you're banned from the FFXIV side, doesn't mean you should just makes walls of text about it here.
Pixela referenced it, I'm just reacting. If you have such a big problem with it, you don't have to respond to it.

The ultimate point was that he thinks that FFXVI's development is taking away from both games, and I quite frankly don't see the evidence of that.

[BobbinT]

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/479766-Yoshi-P-lied

True, and also heavily impacted 11 too.

As another active player, and being legacy in boot: I can say for certain that the poster over FF14 OF are just one sided.

Just to sum it up: There are literally LOADS of content from 2.x to 5.x. And as an achievement hunter myself, I still found more & more of them left to be done, personally kinda thank Yoshi-P to slow things down for 6.x, even that doesn't really help much with loads of stuff over achievement menu that I wanna get it done.

Posts like that usually just cater for content they only wanna do & forgot that achievement menu exist. Just like when FF11 free login came up each time, I would mostly dedicate my time to grind on RoEs, trying to get over that 999+ done since there's special quest to unlock behind it, not something I can quickly finish on top of other needs like CPing/Mlvling for example.

and to address each point:


-Ultimates only cater to an extreme minority of the population (something like sub-1% of players and we are all aware how much cheating is used in that subset anyway)It is true that it probably caters toward that extreme minority, but it does proves that Yoshi-P listen & care even for that minority. He's even sad when finding out that cheats btw.


-Crystalline Conflict was a cool attempt to revive PvP, but their refusal to add a casual mode or ranked mode where you can queue with friends has already resulted in this being dead too.It also does introduce series rewards that I find highly incentive even to ppl who never really like PvP (me for example) since they do fork interesting rewards like glamour/minion/fashion/songs/mount albeit recoloured version from previous ones, which does crave my achievement hunter needs.


-Criterion dungeons were a massive lazy flop with garbage rewards.& how does FF11's monstrosity for example? Maybe it flopped, but it's still interesting content (& so does criterion dungeon), which I would try given that I have more free time that is.


-They've done nothing with BLU nor added other limited jobs.The poster is from 3 months away. There's gonna be another BLU content added on patch 6.45.


-The relics have been the laziest they've ever done. Whether you enjoy this step or not I'm sure you can agree on that. You can finish each step in a single day for MULTIPLE jobs and all you do is roulettes, nothing new.Try doing & completing all relics, coz I did do them all. & again, rly thankful that grind this expac are much lenient. Highly doubt the poster even care to do past relics, otherwise he wouldn't blatantly saying those like an idiot.


-The new deep dungeon while appreciated isn't anything special. HoH changed the formula from PotD up a bit but EO is just a carbon copy of the two more or less. There's some new pomanders and new random enemies, that's it. No surprises. HoH added massive stadium rooms full of enemies and the special summon pomanders at least, what did EO add? Nothing.Again, highly doubt he even invest time doing any of them, not that I can prove it since he locked his achievement page on lodestone to at least back up his claims.


-Island Sanctuary while cute has been really shallow in what it actually delivers in terms of content. It's just a lazy boring daily grind when you boil it down.Yoshi-P did say the content being escapist, & I love it, just as I love FF11's Mog Garden despite being miniature version of it. And now with current 6.4 update which lets players to use housing furnitures on islands, imagination can go really wild!


-The MSQ bits have all been incredibly short, padded by forcing the patch cycle trials into the MSQ when they were side quests in every other expansion after ARR.MSQ content for post x.0 patches so far still consistent & gives interesting stories. Again seriously doubt poster even enjoying this, he probably even skipped CS. And so does sidequests, there's nothing wrong with it.


If poster bored & didn't even cared on other content FF14 has, there's huge loads of game libraries he can feast upon, even Yoshi-P did state that he slowed things down on 6.x so that subscribers can enjoy other products or even have more time with IRL stuff. Heck... he even came to latest PLL while playing Zelda TotK! & that game is huuuge! If I could even multi-task games, I really would! But I'm only human, have very limited stamina, hence another thing I'm being thankful to Yoshi-P to actually listen to my plea to slow things down & ignore dumb post like that still cries lacking content while totally blind on everything else.


One last thing:

True, and also heavily impacted 11 too.
Ever consider other players especially those who just starting FF11 & find buttload of content it has, which he/she probably never finished in their entire life? Or is that opinion is just being selfish? You want to have FF11 to kept forking buttloads of content without consideration that rest of players being too overwhelmed & probably even scaring others to think to even try FF11 in 1st place?

[Alhanelem]

deep dungeon is one of the key things keeping me playing so I can say with confidence they have no idea w hat they're talking about, especially since they can't even get the terminology right :p



Ever consider other players especially those who just starting FF11 & find buttload of content it has, which he/she probably never finished in their entire life? Or is that opinion is just being selfish? You want to have FF11 to kept forking buttloads of content without consideration that rest of players being too overwhelmed & probably even scaring others to think to even try FF11 in 1st place? You're talking to someone who bashes SE's other projects on a regular basis because anything they're working on that isn't FFXI is taking away from or damaging FFXI. As if SE isn't allowed to have more than one project in their portfolio....

[Pixela]

The point they are making is that Yoshi P said ff16 would not impact ff14 and ff11 development and it very much did, and will continue to do so after release because they still need to amke the pc port.

A lot of the core people are no longer free to work on the games they were employed to work on because they are working on 16, a lot of the testing teams can't test new content for 11 and 14 because they are busy with 16.

He flat out lied, because he knew 11 and 14 players can be treated poorly and they won't leave. HE also knew that any problems can be offset by adding a new $30 mount to the cash shop.

[Alhanelem]

The point they are making is that Yoshi P said ff16 would not impact ff14 and ff11 development and it very much did, It very much didn't, as you see above I refuted most of the points made. Of course it's a fairly old post and the stuff he says we didn't have had since been added.

There has been just as much content in all the Endwalker patches as there has been for every previous expansion, any claim to the contrary is absolute hogwash. As for FFXI, the writing was on the wall before anyone even started talking about FFXVI. You can't take away resources that it never had to begin with.

And from now on, unless you play FFXIV, don't waste your time quoting people from its forums, half of them don't know what they're talking about any more than you do.

[Sp1cyryan]

The point they are making is that Yoshi P said ff16 would not impact ff14 and ff11 development and it very much did, and will continue to do so after release because they still need to amke the pc port.

A lot of the core people are no longer free to work on the games they were employed to work on because they are working on 16, a lot of the testing teams can't test new content for 11 and 14 because they are busy with 16.

He flat out lied, because he knew 11 and 14 players can be treated poorly and they won't leave. HE also knew that any problems can be offset by adding a new $30 mount to the cash shop.

Stop crying about the fact that the world moves on, plans change, and that XI is not getting attention. Stop making up the narrative on everything external to the matter as if XI is just being held back by circumstantial decisions on other FF titles. It's not, and you constantly just spew nonsense.

[Pixela]

Stop crying about the fact that the world moves on, plans change, and that XI is not getting attention. Stop making up the narrative on everything external to the matter as if XI is just being held back by circumstantial decisions on other FF titles. It's not, and you constantly just spew nonsense.

I'm paying for a service and I'm getting less for my money because the people running the division are asshats making braindead decisions and taking 11 and 14 players for granted, they are even alienating ff14 players in large numbers as seen in that thread with hundreds of likes. We all know what they are doing and there is nothing we can do about it but we are allowed to complain about it at the very least.

They just released a much wanted mount on 14 that should of been a content drop as a $30 cash shop, after reducing content additions to help pay for the money being wasted on 16 again. They keep doing it cause they know people will just put up with it.

Alhanelem is a yoshiP fanboy, I know what he is and accept him as that and expect nothing else. You however are just a tit lately.

[Sp1cyryan]

I'm paying for a service and I'm getting less for my money because the people running the division are asshats making braindead decisions and taking 11 and 14 players for granted, they are even alienating ff14 players in large numbers as seen in that thread with hundreds of likes. We all know what they are doing and there is nothing we can do about it but we are allowed to complain about it at the very least.

They just released a much wanted mount on 14 that should of been a content drop as a $30 cash shop, after reducing content additions to help pay for the money being wasted on 16 again. They keep doing it cause they know people will just put up with it.

Alhanelem is a yoshiP fanboy, I know what he is and accept him as that and expect nothing else. You however are just a tit lately.

Build a bridge and get over it. The world doesn't revolve around FFXI. Stop blaming everything on anything else.

[Alhanelem]

I'm not a yoshi P fanboy lol I could really not care less. I'm just calling out falsehoods as such. You say so much BS about FFXIV and you don't even play the *##$ game so you have no idea what you're talking about. I mean really, if I'm a YoshiP fanboy, what does that make you, being 100% intolerant of anything that you even PERCIEVE as affecting FFXI in a negative way? the hilarity of being called a fanboy by someone like you, lol.

There has not been less content this expansion. It's really as simple as that. Some weirdo on a forum not liking XYZ content does not make it "not content." And they have every right to sell whatever they want on their stupid little cash shop.

[Pixela]

I am 10000% a FFXI fanboy and if you were a FFXIV fanboy I could understand that just fine, but being a fanboy of a developer and defending them when they are obviously shortchanging your game to build up some other game (ff16) is absolutely pathetic and yes you are a YoshiP fanboy. He could punch you in the face and you would instinctively say thank you and look for a fly he must of been swatting away.

If I cared about 14 as much as I care about 11 I would be even more annoyed, cause it makes even more money for the company and they are treating it poorly too.

Longer and longer gaps between updates, less content being added, more cash shop pap being added, increased prices of cash shop pap, lower quality ingame rewards to sell the cash shop ones.


Build a bridge and get over it. The world doesn't revolve around FFXI.

As far as the places I post about it, yes it does.

I and many other people know exactly what the person in charge is doing, they are using the resources that could be used for 11 and 14 and putting them into 16 and if there are any financial problems because of it we get to bail them out either with more and more cash shop pap at higher and higher prices or lowered budget (both of these have already happened to both games)

All ff11 and ff14 players hould be outraged they had the MMO division make 16, because it was done for low down dirty reasons. And those reasons are as I said, if it flops we can cover the costs form the mmorpgs.

https://i.imgur.com/rLybi3I.jpg

[Immortal]

Hes honestly just deflecting, if anyone would want to complain about that this would def be the place. Who is he to say you can't post your opinion about that here? lol. I think he is the one that needs to get over things.

[Alhanelem]

All ff11 and ff14 players hould be outraged they had the MMO division make 16, because it was done for low down dirty reasons. And those reasons are as I said, if it flops we can cover the costs form the mmorpgs.
Seriously, get over yourself. FF14 does not have less content this expansion, the post you cited is absolutely full of Bull to the S, and FFXI support was winding down before FF16 development even started.



Hes honestly just deflecting, if anyone would want to complain about that this would def be the place. Who is he to say you can't post your opinion about that here? lol. I think he is the one that needs to get over things.

No. Even with the disagreements we have, I can safely say Pixela is oceans more full of it than literally anyone else on this forum. He is literally just jumping on everything he can find to crap on SE for supposedly ruining FFXI, even if it has no basis in reality or truth whatsoever, as is the case here. He really does need to get over it. Nothing can change the past, if he hates SE so much he should stop giving them money, it really is that simple, and not rain on everyone else's parade for not hating them as much as he does for supposedly ruining his entire livelyhood.

[BobbinT]

You however are just a tit lately.

guess my status as legacy player AKA FF14's 1.0 would ticks u even more, eh... lol

Anyhoo... as part of FF14 player base, we majority don't feel being alienated, in fact hugely grateful since Yoshi-P actually does more & beyond his call of duty. That legendary Maidy (who already passed away quite recently) which creates the franchise Dad of Light are one major proof how deep he connects with his player base. Heck... us player base has been continously praising him, one of which when alot youtube content creator made this huge community song (even invite one of official singer to take part as well) (https://youtu.be/mmsVf97xB00). He even couldn't hold his cries for instance when Soken, FF14 main composer, announced his battle with cancer on live announcement. Don't forget that he does the impossible of saving FF franchise by reviving failure of 1.0 into astounding success of Realm Reborn with only a year (or even less), granted that he does have to recycled assets from other FF franchise, but it works!

Those you probably saw complains over OF are just very minority of them, & probably totally oblivious of ingame feature called Achievements, or in FF11's case: Records of Eminence, even that one gave more like gil income for new & casual players who aren't keen with AH market juggling for example.

Get your fact straight before making biased view on Yoshi-P or FF14 player base, again... this is a legacy player who never stop playing FF14 since 2.0 relaunch, with only occasional semi-hiatus when FF11's free login campaign arrives (semi as still doing weekly stuff over FF14 ASAP so that I can focus more on my limited free time on FF11).

oh & btw... community response to FF16 actually very positive from various tweets pinged on my mobile. Yoshi-P been doing this at least since FF14's Shadowbringers, making us felt less expected & only got totally blown away with awe when it actually releases. And he really mean it, some of player base even got emotionally touched, something majority of us didn't even expect just from trailers & various demos. That's how Yoshi-P does, even FF16 already starts making ppl awed already on that playable demo.

[Pixela]

Seriously, get over yourself. FF14 does not have less content this expansion, the post you cited is absolutely full of Bull to the S, and FFXI support was winding down before FF16 development even started.

To be clear I wasn't talking about he massive wealth of new cash shop content.

FF16 should of never been allowed to be made by the MMMORPG division, that's all there is and you defending it says it all about you.

[Alhanelem]

To be clear I wasn't talking about he massive wealth of new cash shop content.
And neither was I. But there is nothing massive about the new cash shop content. In fact that has probably seen the least updates this expansion compared to any previous.

It's obvious to me that you simply believe whatever you want to believe. You certainly can do that, but believing doesn't make something true. Now I could take this in a certain and likely unpleasant direction, but I won't do that because that's not who I am and I also don't want to be judged based on what I'm really wanting to say right now. So I won't.

[Pixela]

It's disgusting how Square Enix treats their most successful games, Blizzard is bad but SE are looking up at them with stars in their eyes.

With people like you cheering them on, how could they not.

[Gwydion]

Build a bridge and get over it. The world doesn't revolve around FFXI. Stop blaming everything on anything else.

Why would you come to a forum for people who enjoy a thing and yell at them for it? Especially for expressing their concerns for the thing they enjoy and still currently pay for, may become stagnant in the near future?

[Sp1cyryan]

Why would you come to a forum for people who enjoy a thing and yell at them for it? Especially for expressing their concerns for the thing they enjoy and still currently pay for, may become stagnant in the near future?

All he does is whine about other Final Fantasy titles. Why come to an XI board and constantly go on about any other FF game?

[Immortal]

Why do you care what he goes on about? "Get over it!" Like seriously, are you trying to increase your post count or something? This place barely sees movement except for the same 3 people lol

[Alhanelem]

Why do you care what he goes on about? "Get over it!" Like seriously, are you trying to increase your post count or something? This place barely sees movement except for the same 3 people lol
It's not your/i/our faults that there's no one else here to talk to.

[Pixela]

All he does is whine about other Final Fantasy titles. Why come to an XI board and constantly go on about any other FF game?

Im talking about things related to XI.

[Alhanelem]

Im talking about things related to XI.
You're really not. None of this is related to FFXI at all, you just think / want to believe that it is.

[Pixela]

Yes I am though, directly related to XI. When I talk about 16 it is in relation to XI, when I talk about reddit or discord it's in relation to XI communities that use them.

Come on, you're not this dense.

[Alhanelem]

Yes I am though, directly related to XI. When I talk about 16 it is in relation to XI, when I talk about reddit or discord it's in relation to XI communities that use them.

Come on, you're not this dense.
The relation is all in your mind, there is no relation between 16 and XI, you are just manufacturing reasons to hate on it for a imagined connection that doesn't exist.

I'm not dense at all. Yes, I know you're posting about this stuff because you personally believe there is a link and therefore it is relevant. I'm here to tell you, as I have been telling you, that all this crap about FFXVI somehow impacting FFXI (and thus by your logic being relevant to discuss here), is 100% BS.

[Pixela]

If you have 100 people and pay them to build a wall, then ask them to also build you a a hundred showers too the wall is either going to take longer to build or will be built to a lower standards.

You cannot take a finite resource of human staff and split it without damaging the primary goals.

There is no argument here, you know what I'm saying is correct and that 16 is hurting 14 and 11 but you are a YoshiP fanboy and so you must defend. No matter how weak your argument, you must make one.

They took a division that only made mmorpg content, and now are making a massive title that is starving everything else.

I have every right to be mad, every 11 fan has every right to be mad and so does every ff14 fan.

They are short changing us because they have made a calculation we will just put up with it and keep paying, they are mostly correct but Blizzard are learning there is still a cost to doing this. They will put up with it, but they won't like you for doing it to them and one day you'll need all your fanbase to stand up for you in your darkest hour and they won't be there.

[Pixela]

Here is the factual reality of FF4 and FF11.

If the management told YoshiP "no you cannot make ff16" he would of put all his developers efforts into making FF14 and FF11 as good as they can be in every way possible, they would get all the sprinkles, they would get all the efforts of the entire division.

However because he was told yes you can make ff16 we do not get all the sprinkles, and worse than that because ff16 is not doing so well we get punished for it too.

In a perfect world I would love that they are making ff16, we don't live in a perfect world. We get less becasue they are making it and we get punished if it flops, and we also get punished if it does well (cause they will be making ff17 then too)

[Catmato]

It's not your/i/our faults that there's no one else here to talk to.

I disagree.

[Alhanelem]

If you have 100 people and pay them to build a wall, then ask them to also build you a a hundred showers too the wall is either going to take longer to build or will be built to a lower standards.SE has multiple devleopment teams working on multiple projects. I'm not suggesting resources are infinite but a big company like SE is more than capable of managing a significant number of people workng on multiple projects.

You know how i keep mentioning creative business unit 3? three is a number. There is more than one unit. There is more than one facility with more than one team working at it. They can ABSOLUTELY make multiple games at the same time without compromising any one of them.""

Also one thing you might notice if you watch FFXIV's multiple hour long credit rolls, is they contracted with DOZENS of third party companies providing various middleware, tools, and other development support. This means that not everyone who works on any of these games is a SE employee, and they can do a lot more without a ridiculously massive staff.

You know, why can't you channel your supposed passion for FFXI into talking about FFXI itself, how much you love it, and all sorts of more positive things instead of moaning and crying (to use forum-appropriate terms) about everything NOT FFXI?

[Monsuta_Man]

Us as players attempt to rationalize dev decisions. However, it is important to understand their words, or Jargon.

"Using jargon makes your communication more specific."

When they use "Limitations" or "Coding" it means they have no plans to do what you are asking. Before it was PS2 limitations, now those limitations are attached to the code.

Devs are only limited by what they are willing to spend, on what they are willing to do.

They are not willing to spend much on XI, because they actually killed it off when it was the most profitable title in the series. If that is not saying "Screw XI" I don't know what is.....

....Still won't stop me from asking for stuff lol.

[Alhanelem]

Devs are only limited by what they are willing to spend, on what they are willing to do.well it's like I said. The devs assigned to the project would probably love to make everyone's dreams come true. But the guys at SE who hold the coin purses aren't about to invest in it without some evidence that it will be worth the cost.



....Still won't stop me from asking for stuff lol. Yeah, im not saying you shouldn't post about this stuff, I"m just being realistic when I say things like "its not gonna happen." :p Like you and everyone else here I'd love to see new stuff, a remaster, new UI, and a pretty long list of other things. =\