[DEV1000] Walk of Echoes: What happened?

[Kenthedeviant]

It was mentioned months ago that Walk of Echoes would be updated and "better" but I've heard nothing about this since then, and it doesnt look like it's slated for an update with the May 10th major VU. So, what is happening with WoE? I'd like to take a moment as an active player of Walk of Echoes to explain the current situation to the Dev team.

A lot of people simply arent interested in WoE, so fewer and fewer people are showing up every day, making it harder and harder to get a "win" and a chance at pouches containing multiple coins, and no matter how good your friends are, you can only rope them into coming with you so many times before they get sick of seeing no progress for you or themselves. The biggest issue, in my opinion, is simply the fact that you can get the "win", earn first place 20x in a row, and still not get even a single coin of what you're after, much less a pouch of coins. I understand the CONCEPT of "game balance" and the "random nature" of the game, but at what point, does balance and random nature because frustration and imbalance? Is it when the guy who hid in a corner and lotted the pouch you need wins lot, takes off and finishes his trial weeks before you? Or perhaps when you feel you've mastered walk of echoes, can place first every time, and never actually get anything you need from your private award coffer?

I dont understand why the WoE system for coins cant be switched to a KI voucher system, for example, earn vouchers for wins, depending on how you placed/ranked in the fight overall, and then you can redeem those vouchers for the coins you actually NEED. Dont like that system? No problem! How about making it like Einherjar: where points are awarded for completions, instead of exp/limit points, and then those points can be redeemed for whatever you want. Still not liking either of these ideas? Well how about just creating alternate ways to actually earn the coins you need, perhaps entirely outside of WoE since no one seems to be interested in it anymore anyway. WoE is dying.... quickly, and something needs to be done soon or players really wont have much of any opportunity to get the coins they need to EVER complete their trials. Lets call a spade a spade here: the majority of us who chose to do WoE are usually people who do not have the time or opportunity to complete a TRUE empyrean weapon, so we go the WoE route due to our limited time and resources, but if we can spend weeks or even MONTHS there, working our butts off, then whats the difference... or the point?

[Anewie]

I'm not trying to be rude but if you don't "have time" for an empyrean weapon, um... You need to spend less time in woe or maybe you don't want to try because completing an empyrean weapon is solely up to you. It's very casual.

Sure, it can go really slow but, it's really up to you, and it's not hard.

[Kenthedeviant]

I'm not trying to be rude but if you don't "have time" for an empyrean weapon, um... You need to spend less time in woe or maybe you don't want to try because completing an empyrean weapon is solely up to you. It's very casual.

Sure, it can go really slow but, it's really up to you, and it's not hard.



First of all, you ARE being, rude, and missing the point entirely. Not only did I mention time, but also resources, meaning not having the setup to consistently farm empyrean weapons. Only certain KI's can be farmed from Gold Pyxides, and if you plan to solo NM's that drop KI's to pop Empyrean weapon NM's, then the chance to proc red is entirely based on luck since only a few select jobs can do this, and war certainly isnt one of them (for the majority of red procs). Try reading it again, and instead of complaining and whining, try offering something constructive.

[Randwolf]

You had me until you took it outside WoE. The bottom line is simply WoE needs to be fixed.

[Mrbeansman]

Way to completely miss what makes WOE terrible.

The fact that there is no option to reserve a conflux is the reason sucks. The way it is now a group of five can be robbed of rank chest by unneeded leeches. And before people come and say that there not leeching you need to realize that leeches can not win without us and we don't need them to win thus they are leeching.

[Sovereign]

Yup, conflux reservation for your group (lower the player limit to 18, and give a BCNM icon just like the "faint hum" did for Limbus), and a lower limit on how many wins are required to unlock new tiers.

Simply put, WoE has such a limited following due to mediocre drops and a system that prohibits progress to the higher tiers. I mean, Diabolos hasn't even unlocked flux 4 or 6 yet, and WoE has been out for a long time now. Lets not even talk about unlocking #7.

[Vold]

You know, I know this will seem like a waste of time to point out but I think it's very valid: You could spend a fraction of the time obtaining an Empyrean if you joined a linkshell dedicated to blocking everyone else by spamming NM pops. Sorta why less and less are wasting their time with uncertain WoE progress and I'm not sure any amount of fixes will help when you could go the cheap route to obtaining an Empyrean. And yes, it's effing cheap. And it's even more cheap to use it to your advantage when trying to get 9 year old weapons upgraded to be better.

You could lead it yourself for any run time of your choosing. If you have time for WoE then you have time for empyrean farming. SE seems to have given up on it so we should, too. But hey, I see a major change in the future for WoE that's in line with the Dynamis change.

[Zetonegi]

I think that's the point Vold. It should be available for people who don't want to spend time to get full out Empys. The problem is, with maybe a few exceptions here or there depending on server, the Empys are just plain easier to get. This is an event that gives you strictly worse rewards for clearly more investment when it was meant to be the cheap easy option to empys. Some people don't want sit in Guku's Aery trying to get Sobek triggers while others just don't want to organize or join an Empy LS. You can disagree with them but the worse 'easier to get' option should actually be easier to get.

WoE's being terrible comes down to 2 things::
1) drop rate on coins sucks(can't solo farm em efficiently in the slightest)
2) people can easily leech on your work without even though they aren't needed for you to clear a flux and there's nothing you can do about it

[Raksha]

My LS does WoE for the money drops (and to get ppl coins), so i just lot the freebies. Also, 50 glavoid shells? 50 kukulkan skins? 50 bukhis wings? No thanks i'll use the crappy WoE versions. Thats a lot more headache than i care to bother with.

[Areola]

My LS does WoE for the money drops (and to get ppl coins), so i just lot the freebies. Also, 50 glavoid shells? 50 kukulkan skins? 50 bukhis wings? No thanks i'll use the crappy WoE versions. Thats a lot more headache than i care to bother with.

You forgot two-leaf Chloris bud's...

[blowfin]

Also, 50 glavoid shells? 50 kukulkan skins? 50 bukhis wings? No thanks i'll use the crappy WoE versions. Thats a lot more headache than i care to bother with.

Gearing a whole bunch of people in +2 gear is a headache? News to me.

[Zirael]

My LS does WoE for the money drops (and to get ppl coins), so i just lot the freebies. Also, 50 glavoid shells? 50 kukulkan skins? 50 bukhis wings? No thanks i'll use the crappy WoE versions. Thats a lot more headache than i care to bother with.

You forgot two-leaf Chloris bud's...
I might agree that Galvoid can give trouble to people who come unprepared (no WHM, no refresh atmas, no good DD atmas, TP feed, no stunner), but what kind of difficulty do Kukulkan, Bukhis or Chloris pose? Farming key items? Bringing holy waters? Using atma of apocalypse/razed ruins? Not having spare 20-50 Traverser stones to complete lv85 weapon? Camping against others during weekend?
After getting empy weapons with 3 friends I have 7 AF3+2 heads just from doing that, 6 another AF3+1 heads as well, and so do they; hell, even few people who tagged along for boss kills got some +2 for their jobs. There will be a bunch of +2 bodies too when we decide to go after lv90. There's more to getting empyrean weapon than just weapon itself. To be honest, weapon aftermath itself doesn't pay for the effort, but AF3+2/gil that comes with it does. If you don't plan getting any AF3+2 ever, then WoE is clear winner, of course, but if you do, why not spend few days extra before that in Visions of Abyssea and get someone from your LS the real weapon as well?
I don't think WoE was designed to be a solo content, neither was abyssea, but it can be soloed in some cases inefficiently. If you don't like cooperating with people (got any friends or comrades in game?) to get your and their stuff done, you miss a point of MMORPG. If anything of this was made easier for a group of 4-6 people supporting each other, we might as well start playing it offline.

[Raksha]

Gearing a whole bunch of people in +2 gear is a headache? News to me.

It is actually, but that may be because I play a healer.


I might agree that Galvoid can give trouble to people who come unprepared (no WHM, no refresh atmas, no good DD atmas, TP feed, no stunner), but what kind of difficulty do Kukulkan, Bukhis or Chloris pose? Farming key items? Bringing holy waters? Using atma of apocalypse/razed ruins? Not having spare 20-50 Traverser stones to complete lv85 weapon? Camping against others during weekend?
After getting empy weapons with 3 friends I have 7 AF3+2 heads just from doing that, 6 another AF3+1 heads as well, and so do they; hell, even few people who tagged along for boss kills got some +2 for their jobs. There will be a bunch of +2 bodies too when we decide to go after lv90. There's more to getting empyrean weapon than just weapon itself. To be honest, weapon aftermath itself doesn't pay for the effort, but AF3+2/gil that comes with it does. If you don't plan getting any AF3+2 ever, then WoE is clear winner, of course, but if you do, why not spend few days extra before that in Visions of Abyssea and get someone from your LS the real weapon as well?
I don't think WoE was designed to be a solo content, neither was abyssea, but it can be soloed in some cases inefficiently. If you don't like cooperating with people (got any friends or comrades in game?) to get your and their stuff done, you miss a point of MMORPG. If anything of this was made easier for a group of 4-6 people supporting each other, we might as well start playing it offline.


kukulkan does that ST20 move which is annoying, and bukhis does conal doom + wipes cruor buffs. Sounds like a headache to me. And dont even get me started on Azdaja/apademak. No way in hell would i subject myself to any of that. Knock yourselves out.

[Areola]

I only mention Chloris because of the KI farming. I mean killing two nm's to pop one nm is kinda silly, not to mention the other 3 KI's.

[blowfin]

It is actually, but that may be because I play a healer.

Honestly the random drop rates and the general abortion that is WoE sound a lot worse than that.


kukulkan does that ST20 move which is annoying, and bukhis does conal doom + wipes cruor buffs. Sounds like a headache to me. And dont even get me started on Azdaja/apademak. No way in hell would i subject myself to any of that. Knock yourselves out.

None of that is terribly hard if you go in with good players and a decent setup.

[Raksha]

Honestly the random drop rates and the general abortion that is WoE sound a lot worse than that.


Like I said we do WoE as an LS so i just pick up spare coins when no one needs them




None of that is terribly hard if you go in with good players and a decent setup.

Was wondering how long it'd take before someone told me to suck less.

I never said it was hard. It's just annoying. If it was hard it'd at least be fun.

[BorkBorkBork]

If I remember their road map correctly I think they are going to get to revamping WoE later this summer. I have a small group that I take in and as long as we dont have a leech everyone gets a chest. The most annoying thing is the mentality of leeches of team up with me or I'll just leech a chest instead of going to flux 3 and soloing antlions.

As for it being easier or hard depends on your group. If you have a more dedicated group that will show up consistently go for the emphs if not WoE isnt hard to get your coins out of but it can be annoying.

[blowfin]

Was wondering how long it'd take before someone told me to suck less.

I never said it was hard. It's just annoying. If it was hard it'd at least be fun.

I wasnt saying that at all. Im sorry you feel like people are picking on you. I do have to wonder how youre able to make a judgement on content you dont seem to have played though. Ive done some WoE, and from experience building an empy is far more rewarding and healthy for your shell, and not as difficult as it could be for all the benefits that can come from it. If you only have an hour or so to play, then sure, WoE is probably a better option.

The challenge with some of the NMs is keeping it clean. Sure you can just throw bodies at stuff and youll probably win with Apoc and a couple of empys. Its boring though and often takes longer. There is strategy required for a lot of it if you dont want to embarrass yourself or waste peoples time. Annoying for the sake of it? You could say that for a lot of things in game, like WoE for example.

[Raksha]

I wasnt saying that at all. Im sorry you feel like people are picking on you. I do have to wonder how youre able to make a judgement on content you dont seem to have played though. Ive done some WoE, and from experience building an empy is far more rewarding and healthy for your shell, and not as difficult as it could be for all the benefits that can come from it. If you only have an hour or so to play, then sure, WoE is probably a better option.


I've done many, many Kukulkan, glavoid, azdaja, apademak, pantokrator etc. None of these fights are difficult, they are just annoying. I do not choose to spend my free time (read: non-LS time) killing these things over and over. If I was just gonna brew through a bunch of pops with no regards to grellow, it'd be one thing, but ppl seem to want +2 items.



The challenge with some of the NMs is keeping it clean. Sure you can just throw bodies at stuff and youll probably win with Apoc and a couple of empys. Its boring though and often takes longer. There is strategy required for a lot of it if you dont want to embarrass yourself or waste peoples time. Annoying for the sake of it? You could say that for a lot of things in game, like WoE for example.I am not a noob. My end game LS is pretty much the only one that has survived the lvl cap on my server. we do plenty of abyssea, about 3 nights per week as a shell, and plenty more in the off-times. I know all the tips and tricks and STILL dont want to bother with ODD. Dont get me wrong, i can't even be arsed to do the preliminary NM/VNM trials for the WoE coins i actually already have. I realize i'm probably not the typical player in this regard, I only popped in to explain why someone would want WoE versions instead of full emp.

Also WoE is super annoying too, and if it weren't for LS events i wouldn't come within 50 yalms of the damn thing.

EDIT: also just thought i'd add that many members of my LS have full emps, and are also working on WoE version for jobs that aren't their 'mains'.

[xSylarx]

Ok lets lock WoE and destroy it because the Japanese lock you out. Have u tried to kill the bosses in conflux 1 and 3 it take at least 18 to kill effectively. You wanna make WoE better make the other bosses easier or make conflux 2 harder to force people to work together

[xSylarx]

SE intended 4 all of use to work together not low man so here a better idea. SE please make conflux 2 bosses twice as hard so none can win it with any less then 25 people thank you. maybe then people will learn how to play with each other its hard enough with me to have 2 job solo 4 hours and get one coin but random people jump in or even try to mpk me. Even if i was there first if you and your team is so good 5 man conflux 4, 5, and 6. well 4 and 6 leecher cant enter those because they never get any win except for 2.
Way to completely miss what makes WOE terrible.

The fact that there is no option to reserve a conflux is the reason sucks. The way it is now a group of five can be robbed of rank chest by unneeded leeches. And before people come and say that there not leeching you need to realize that leeches can not win without us and we don't need them to win thus they are leeching.