December 2022 FINAL FANTASY XI Digest

[Akihiko_Matsui]

The latest FINAL FANTASY XI Digest is now available! The digest covers key features from the most recent version update. Check out the video, try the version update, and leave a feedback based on your experience of playing the new content.

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[Shuko]

I am excited for the new story coming in January, but I do wonder, no Silver Voucher NM's yet from the last mission set?

[Uriah]

It simply cannot be productive to have the same exact conversation every single month about repeated weaponskills.

How many times are you specifically going to rewrite the core mechanics of the game for specific instances and addressing it literally every update instead of just doing the bare minimum and balancing.

[Sp1cyryan]

Great update to Odyssey. Difficulty scales really well from start to finish, all things considered.

Now with the extra add, regen, and recurring WS cooldown, we will see who can apply all the gear and MLs the game has provided at us, and who can not.

Only way players do anything different is if they are forced to, and they can kick and scream about it all they want, but it is a good thing for this game and the community.

[Velner]

I can't apply all the Master Levels because I don't have them yet! (; ; )

[Catmato]

It simply cannot be productive to have the same exact conversation
Hmmm......

[jasnekholin]

WS wall isn't challenging, it's just annoying. Way too severe a penalty to impose on melee strategies, can't even skillchain properly, one of the core mechanics of the game.

[Alhanelem]

Great update to Odyssey. Difficulty scales really well from start to finish, all things considered.

Now with the extra add, regen, and recurring WS cooldown, we will see who can apply all the gear and MLs the game has provided at us, and who can not.

Only way players do anything different is if they are forced to, and they can kick and scream about it all they want, but it is a good thing for this game and the community.
There are good ways and bad ways to add challenge to the game. Bad ways include altering core player mechanics. One should reasonably expect that their abilities will do what they say on the tin barring status effects or attributes of the target that are clearly defined and you would expect to alter it.
BP wall is a bad way to control SMN's power.
Nuke wall is a bad way to control BLM/magepower.
WS walls are a bad way to control melee power. It's not a challenge modifier, it's just a straight up nerf. Artificially crippling various jobs with "walls" is not indicative of good mechanics. They didn't need these things back in the day to make some fights favor certain team comps, and they don't need it now.


Status effects, unique boss abilties, attributes, etc. that's how you control challenge. Powerful buffs that can be re Armoved by meeting conditions. Using certain elements and forbidding others. weaknesses and strengths vs varous status effects.

[Immortal]

That is all your opinion, they are all viable ways to balance content. SE decided what they want for their game, have to deal with it.

[Sp1cyryan]

There are good ways and bad ways to add challenge to the game. Bad ways include altering core player mechanics. One should reasonably expect that their abilities will do what they say on the tin barring status effects or attributes of the target that are clearly defined and you would expect to alter it.
BP wall is a bad way to control SMN's power.
Nuke wall is a bad way to control BLM/magepower.
WS walls are a bad way to control melee power. It's not a challenge modifier, it's just a straight up nerf. Artificially crippling various jobs with "walls" is not indicative of good mechanics. They didn't need these things back in the day to make some fights favor certain team comps, and they don't need it now.


Status effects, unique boss abilties, attributes, etc. that's how you control challenge. Powerful buffs that can be re Armoved by meeting conditions. Using certain elements and forbidding others. weaknesses and strengths vs varous status effects.

So, it was a good update. Cool.

[Alhanelem]

So, it was a good update. Cool. It's a good update if the roulette wheel of jobs SE doesn't want you to play for this content didn't land on yours.



That is all your opinion, they are all viable ways to balance content. SE decided what they want for their game, have to deal with it. The forum lost a bunch of text I wrote here. But yeah. it's my opinion, and it's the opinion of anyone irritated at their job being excluded because SE said so rather than because of anything a monster did to counter the player's actions.

Monster uses an ability or undergoes a state change by a % of HP or similar to weaken XYZ attacks/abilities? Fine.
Ability or attack artifically nerfed in the content independent of the monster itself? Not fine.

I don't mind content being made easier or harder for different jobs *based on the monster's behavior." I do mind a decree by the almighty gods that says "these jobs cant be used effectively because we said so." This isn't me crying about my particular job(s) not being great for a fight, this is about the artificial and illogical manner in which this was done.

[Zenion]

It's a good update if the roulette wheel of jobs SE doesn't want you to play for this content didn't land on yours.


The forum lost a bunch of text I wrote here. But yeah. it's my opinion, and it's the opinion of anyone irritated at their job being excluded because SE said so rather than because of anything a monster did to counter the player's actions.

Monster uses an ability or undergoes a state change by a % of HP or similar to weaken XYZ attacks/abilities? Fine.
Ability or attack artifically nerfed in the content independent of the monster itself? Not fine.

I don't mind content being made easier or harder for different jobs *based on the monster's behavior." I do mind a decree by the almighty gods that says "these jobs cant be used effectively because we said so." This isn't me crying about my particular job(s) not being great for a fight, this is about the artificial and illogical manner in which this was done.

I, for one, am delighted by the weaponskill wall. Listening to my melee-playing friends saying the same things I've had to say as a summoner was a delight.

When every job is nerfed, none will be. Healing wall when?

[Sp1cyryan]

It's a good update if the roulette wheel of jobs SE doesn't want you to play for this content didn't land on yours.


The forum lost a bunch of text I wrote here. But yeah. it's my opinion, and it's the opinion of anyone irritated at their job being excluded because SE said so rather than because of anything a monster did to counter the player's actions.

Monster uses an ability or undergoes a state change by a % of HP or similar to weaken XYZ attacks/abilities? Fine.
Ability or attack artifically nerfed in the content independent of the monster itself? Not fine.

I don't mind content being made easier or harder for different jobs *based on the monster's behavior." I do mind a decree by the almighty gods that says "these jobs cant be used effectively because we said so." This isn't me crying about my particular job(s) not being great for a fight, this is about the artificial and illogical manner in which this was done.

Time to be more flexible in the jobs you can offer a group or settle for R25 augments.

[Alhanelem]

Time to be more flexible in the jobs you can offer a group or settle for R25 augments. No, it's not. (And I don't even care about the augments or Odyssey all that much in the first place- I know there are reasons why I probably should, but it's not a priority for me right now)

This isn't about jobs being better than others for a content. It's about artificual restrictions that make no logical sense beyond "we said so." Battle mechanics should be rooted in rationality and logic.

Even saying that, the "rlexibility" you demand isn't something that should be demanded by the player. Skill strategy and logic (and a little creativity) are what should matter.

The point here is that these "mechanics" amount to little more than "we don't want these jobs, so we'll just make it so they can't do anything in a really artificial and unfun way."
Examples of proper mechanics:
- Many monsters cast silence or use Amnesia. One creates a hassle for casters, the other creats a hassle for ws/ability dependent jobs. These are spells and effects that have long esisted in the FF universe, it makes sense that monsters can use them, and they make certain jobs more or less ideal than others
- Many monsters have AoE effects centered around themselves. This means it is dangerous to be close to the monster for long, which favors casters. Then there are similar mechanics that target casters.
- Many monsters are associated with a particular element, use magic of that element, and/or absorb or are immune to damage from those sources. These make sense and complicate the role of a magic damage dealer.
- Many monsters mimic certain jobs and have their mechanics, which often create problems for specific other jobs.

All of these things are natural, logical things you expect from enemies in this game. They all make some jobs more or less preferred than others. But these mechanics make sense and players build teams around them.

The mechanics they've been using to "balance" jobs lately are nothing of the sort. They're highly gimmicky and make no sense beyond "we said so." They're not fun, arbitrarily restrict job selection in an unintuitive way (no way to know other than being told/looking it up). And historically, while some jobs are better than others for many fights, players can often apply many strategies and find creative solutions that can allow

If the only option is "use this one comp SE came up with or GTFO" that's bad game and content design. And if all jobs can gain from a given content, it should be *possible*, even if its not ideal, to do it with all jobs. Content that rewards stuff for specific jobs should be completeable with those jobs in the party.

In the case of these fights: If they go into a "mode" where you can't use or do certain things, like many exisiting contents already have, that's fine. You can play around that and maybe it will take longer but you can still do it with whoever you can gather up. I'm only against permanent "wall" mechanics that are applied across a content. You don't need these kinds of arbitrary restrictions to create challenging content.

And if/when I do get around to doing Odyssey stuff, I'll prove you wrong anyway and get all the R30s I need/want on the jobs I can play.

[Sp1cyryan]

That's a lot words for someone who hasn't "gotten around to doing Odyssey stuff".

At the end of the day the playerbase has shown it must be forced to do certain things. They can kick and scream and whine all they want, but it only goes to show how necessary it is.

I don't care how elegant or not the Nuke Wall or WS Wall or Blood Pact Wall are. They are necessary for certain content anymore. The alternative is a rework of the mechanics and formulas in this game, and that is never happening 20 years in. Devs are working with what they have and what the playerbase keeps doing. That is it, and it is needed regardless of the lack of being refined.

[Alhanelem]

At the end of the day the playerbase has shown it must be forced to do certain things.When and where exactly did they show this?

Your opinion is not a fact, it's an opinion. No one needs to be "forced" to do anything. If you do, that's just another sign of bad game design, as the best/intended way of doing something should always come naturally, not be "forced." Particularly if it's just the way you think a battle should go, rather than what was obviously intended by the developers. These "walls" are a bad solution to balance problems, if the devs think a job is too strong they should fix that problem, not just build a "wall" into content to prevent the use of that job (or role, as the case may be). If the only way to steer players away from a certain battle strategy is to throw up a wall to cripple it, they need to re-evaluate how they are balancing things.

As for the "lot of words" bit, these "lots of words" apply generally to the game, I don't need to spend hours and hours in Odysseey to be able to comment.

[jasnekholin]

thank you SE for the quick response to the WS wall, some may have liked the additional challenge but i think it was the right call.

[Uriah]

If only you gave the minimum effort to actually make sure things worked as intended before you just throw them out there. Shameful. Just a constant embarrassment.

[Sp1cyryan]

When and where exactly did they show this?

Your opinion is not a fact, it's an opinion. No one needs to be "forced" to do anything. If you do, that's just another sign of bad game design, as the best/intended way of doing something should always come naturally, not be "forced." Particularly if it's just the way you think a battle should go, rather than what was obviously intended by the developers. These "walls" are a bad solution to balance problems, if the devs think a job is too strong they should fix that problem, not just build a "wall" into content to prevent the use of that job (or role, as the case may be). If the only way to steer players away from a certain battle strategy is to throw up a wall to cripple it, they need to re-evaluate how they are balancing things.

As for the "lot of words" bit, these "lots of words" apply generally to the game, I don't need to spend hours and hours in Odysseey to be able to comment.

They do need to be forced at this point, and the Devs clearly agreed.

[Immortal]

Um have you never played a final fantasy game? They love to force specific strategies... thats their means of balance and how they want you to play. How many times we fight bosses that absorb x and y or that take no magic damage

[Alhanelem]

They do need to be forced at this point, and the Devs clearly agreed. No one needs to be "forced" to do anything at all. If you think the game is too easy, find a harder one. I know very few people who pick up a game like FFXI and think it's too easy.

Also the devs didn't "agree" with anyone, they made what they made on their own, They have noted in the past "player feedback was that bla-de-bla-deblad" with regards to some updates, so if they were actually getting feedback saying "we don't want melee to be useable in Odyssey," and made this change as a result, they would have said something about that. But I haven't seen anyone say that outside of this thread.

And again, even if you want to argue that their solution to a problem (a problem I don't personally feel existed, but YMMV) wroked, that doesn't mean it was the best one or the best way to achieve it. And in my opinion there are vastly better ways to encourage people to try different strategies than simply say flat out "we made melee jobs total garbage for this fight, so don't use them." Part of this problem is that it also rules out non-meta playstyles that in some cases can provide different ways of beating something. For instance, as a summoner, I like to use my relic and make liberal use of skillchains with my summon and magic bursts. But making melee trash and/or outright unusable kinda throws that out. Which means my approach would end up being the same as the standard approach for summoner to any other content except half the time, they don't want us to do that either.

In the past we've had mechanics like periods of damage obsorption and such that make it trickier to use certain jobs without all-but locking them out. It ends up feeling more like "You must use this team comp for this fight because we said so," without any other in-world reason for it, like this kind of monster is immune to magic or that kind of monster has AoE melee attacks. Those kind of mechanics feel more natural, rational and logical, and less arbitrary.

Anyway, the point is, you can argue that their solution worked, and maybe it does, but as far as I'm concerned, their approach is bad game design and there are better ways to achieve what they set out to do.

[Alhanelem]

Listening to my melee-playing friends saying the same things I've had to say as a summoner was a delight.

When every job is nerfed, none will be. Healing wall when?
While I certainly understand why you would say something like this: Nerfing the crap out of everything isn't any better a way to achieve balance than buffing everything. Balance means adjusting some things upward and somethings downward, that's why it's called balance.

Also healing walls have existed before, the almighty ST20 status, which is now just a special version of curse, which prevents you from recovering HP by any means. And the thing about this was it was a status the monster inflicted, not something that was in effect for the entire content. That is better game design. It's a status, you can see it and know what it does intuitively and respond appropriately and/or build a team based on that without having "do it and wonder why stuff isn't working" being the only option.

It also doesn't mean healing jobs are unusable, it only means you have to cope with the status while it's there.

[Demetric]

Hello,

Love the game been playing off and on since NA launch. Reactivated my account in hopes of job updates. Master levels are fine but that's not the same. Somewhere along the way for whatever reason plans for the 20th changed. I've looked for months. And there is no explanation as to why planes changed. Whenever the question is even brought up it gets ignored.

I'm grateful you do this digest every month. And i know you only have a fraction of the team size. Thing is the FFXI team has always kept a tight lip on the game. I've seen players ask for more active in depth communicate for years. Now its even worse. See the 20th anniversary AMA for example. There are questions you simply refuse to answer. And i can't continue justifying paying for a game that treats its player base like this.

To the players happy with the game as is, fine. You have every right to your opinion. And i wish you nothing but the best and many years of future enjoyment. Will i check back in hopes for more open communication, sure. But i'm out for now

To all the staff at FFXI, Take Care & all the best.

[Pixela]

Square Enix are not a great company anymore, the top brass have no idea what they are doing and don't understand the industry they work in.

We are dealing with a company that spent tens of millions on something like Babylon's fall or SoP, then kept paying people to work on it for a year when it had a literal handful of players. They refuse to invest even a fraction of what they spend on other complete nonsense for XI above the bare minimum, which has a guaranteed playerbase willing to spend money at the drop of a hat and an even larger group of people that would return for an expansion. They refuse to invest in a game that has a guaranteed return on the investment because they would rather gamble on other games that often flop.

So why don't the developers communicate with us more? Because they can't, they don't even know if they will be working next year becasue they are on a running year to year contract. They are as much in the dark as we are, they do the best with what they are given but they are in no way stable enough to be making plans.

The developers love this game and you should never doubt that, they would love to have all the things we ask for because this is their life's work and they are proud of it. However, they can't say or do anything but what they are allowed to do or say.

XI has been effectively pinned to the XIV jacket, we exist because we get funded as an extension of that game and all the profits XI makes goto that. I don't think anyone minds this being the case and obviously we want the game to be profitable long-term, but not spending more on the game in terms of fixing the dev problems and making expansions to make sure that is the case when they know it will pay for that investment is wrong.

[Alhanelem]

But i'm out for nowBye

These digests are a key point of communication, beyond that, I think they lack a CM right now and that's probably why there isn't much beyond that.



Now its even worse. See the 20th anniversary AMA for example. There are questions you simply refuse to answer.You kind of go against that feelling grateful statement when you say this and say "I'm out." And I strongly disagree with your comments about the AMA. They answered a lot of questions and answered them honestly. Frankly, they were less vague than they used to be IMO. We might not have liked all the answers but they were honest.


Square Enix are not a great company anymore,Frankly, they were never a great company, they just had some people working for them that happened to do great things. Like right now they're still pushing NFTs when the gaming community has pretty flatly rejected them.



And i can't continue justifying paying for a game that treats its player base like this.
Treats its playerbase like what? I don't feel mistreated. I think you and some of the more vocal dissidents around here simply continue to hold unrealistic expectations of a 20+ year old game that, quite frankly, we're still lucky to have at all. I've seen other classic games from the era get run into the ground a lot harder (Warcraft III for instance), as well as others that do have more effort put in. But even at its best XI was never exactly the most popular title in the series, so frankly I'm impressed that it's still going with any kind of support at all.




XI has been effectively pinned to the XIV jacket, we exist because we get funded as an extension of that game and all the profits XI makes goto that.Please stop pushing this false narratrive. Not even all the money FFXIV itself makes goes to FFXIV. Both games are operated by Creative Business Unit III and all the income their projects earn funds everything that they do. Not specifically FFXIV, Not specifically FFXI, Not specifically any one project. FFXIV funds everything the business unit does the same as FFXI does.
STOP BLAMING FFXIV for FFXI's state, FFXI was declining before FFXIV came out and at that time the gaming community at large already didn't care. FFXIV maybe sped it up a little bit but it started going the way it was going long before. Yoshida himself saved the game from death when they were considering pulling the plug. Every penny CBU3's projects make goes to all of its projects based on funding allocations. There is no specific funnel of FFXI monies into FFXIV or into any other specific project. THIS IS NOT HOW BUDGETING WORKS. you CANNOT identify any given dollar recieved as being sent to a specific other project.

Oh and CBU3 is working on Final Fantasy 16, so monies from all its other projects i.e. both FFXI, FFXIV, and anything else they are doing are indirectly being spent on that as well. Stop telling people they're funding FFXIV, they're funding everything Square Enix does, because that's how budgets work. They're funding Square-Enix / Creative Business Unit III, not FFXIV or any other specific project.

[Stuzey]

I think most of the frustration comes from players who care about the game, they want to see the investment it once had, but that will not happen.

Reusing old maps, old mobs, old content, will keep you going for a while, but the game starts to feel stale. That's where we are right now, I saw a lot of people come back for the 20th anniversary, but haven't stuck around.

It's a shame, as the 20th anniversary really excited the xi community, it could be a missed opportunity

But, we are we are, it's still a great game for new people or returnees, with lots of content to get caught up on, it will trundle on, as it is for many more years

[Alhanelem]

It's a shame, as the 20th anniversary really excited the xi community, The community honestly got a little too excited about the anniversary, they expected things that were not promised or even directly hinted at. They community set themselves up for disappointment when all the team was trying to do was honor the game's history, share memories, that sort of thing.

[Pixela]

FFXI does not exist as a title anymore from a financial standpoint, it only exists as part of FF14. This is proven by every single financial report never ever mentioning ff11.

This has been the case since they changed the playonline accounts in to the square enix accounts Ff14 uses, all our money goes to ff14 and any budget it gets is from YoshiP from the FF14 budget. When I played FF14 I used the money I paid a year previously on Crysta to pay for it.

YoshiP has stated they are merged, many of the staff form ff14 work on 11 when they have time.

Xi exists as part of XIV.

[Stuzey]

yes the player base got excited and started to hope for something special for the 20th anniversary, but you can't blame them, they care, they want to see the game grow, but, it's not where the game is anymore.

You also feel the dev team want the best, they just don't get the support from SE, I don't know what the financial figures are, or how difficult it is to create new content in a 20 year old game, but they do the best they can

[Alhanelem]

FFXI does not exist as a title anymore from a financial standpoint, it only exists as part of FF14.False. It doesn't exist as part of FF14, it exists as part of Creative Business Unit III. As does all of their other projects.



Xi exists as part of XIV. Xi exists as part of Creative Business Unit III. It doesn't matter how many times you try to say this or how many times you blame FFXIV for FFXI's state, it's not an accurate representation of the situation, now or ever. You can keep repeating this as much as you want, I'll be there to remind people you're full of it and blinded by your hate of FFXIV.



yes the player base got excited and started to hope for something special for the 20th anniversary,We did get something special. They created a website dedicated to the purpose which shared memories, interviews, offered a detailed history, art, and other stuff. SE never mentioned, promised, or alluded to any new game feature, mechanic, expansion, or anything else being added to the game in association with the anniversary. The playerbase let their imaginations run wild on that.

It would be different if they promised things of the sort and then didn't deliver them. But that's not what happened.

[Stuzey]

Why do you have to argue against everything? My point was that the playerbase care about the game and it was a missed opportunity, it doesn't matter if you feel SE didn't promise anything new, if the playerbase that came back for the 20th anniversary have not stuck around.

The more people who play the game, the better it is for the game

[Immortal]

Hello,

Love the game been playing off and on since NA launch. Reactivated my account in hopes of job updates. Master levels are fine but that's not the same. Somewhere along the way for whatever reason plans for the 20th changed. I've looked for months. And there is no explanation as to why planes changed. Whenever the question is even brought up it gets ignored.

I'm grateful you do this digest every month. And i know you only have a fraction of the team size. Thing is the FFXI team has always kept a tight lip on the game. I've seen players ask for more active in depth communicate for years. Now its even worse. See the 20th anniversary AMA for example. There are questions you simply refuse to answer. And i can't continue justifying paying for a game that treats its player base like this.

To the players happy with the game as is, fine. You have every right to your opinion. And i wish you nothing but the best and many years of future enjoyment. Will i check back in hopes for more open communication, sure. But i'm out for now

To all the staff at FFXI, Take Care & all the best.

Cry babies like you abandoning the game are why it wont change, all you quitters going to private servers are accelerating the death.

[Immortal]

STOP BLAMING FFXIV for FFXI's state, FFXI was declining before FFXIV came out and at that time the gaming community at large already didn't care. FFXIV maybe sped it up a little bit but it started going the way it was going long before. Yoshida himself saved the game from death when they were considering pulling the plug. Every penny CBU3's projects make goes to all of its projects based on funding allocations. There is no specific funnel of FFXI monies into FFXIV or into any other specific project. THIS IS NOT HOW BUDGETING WORKS. you CANNOT identify any given dollar recieved as being sent to a specific other project.

Oh and CBU3 is working on Final Fantasy 16, so monies from all its other projects i.e. both FFXI, FFXIV, and anything else they are doing are indirectly being spent on that as well. Stop telling people they're funding FFXIV, they're funding everything Square Enix does, because that's how budgets work. They're funding Square-Enix / Creative Business Unit III, not FFXIV or any other specific project.

lol this is so wrong its hilarious. XI was "declining" before XIV came out because they were spending all of XI profits to create XIV, and when it came out and flopped they continued pouring money to stop the bleed.

[Alhanelem]

XI was "declining" before XIV came out because they were spending all of XI profits to create XIV,Nope, before that too. It was already happening before anyone even knew FFXIV was coming.

I'm just really tired of this false narrative that FFXIV killed FFXI, it simply isn't true and Producer/Director Yoshida, who is also head of Creative Business Unit III, made sure support would continue. if they really wanted to destroy FFXI they would not have done that.

That's aside from the fact that as you mentioned, the original release was a huge failiure. It was not going to be pulling many, if any, players from FFXI. whatever issues FFXI had to lose players, it had those before this.

[Immortal]

Where exactly are you getting that information from? What was "happening"? During that timeframe there were periods of huge delays between updates, thats causing a bleed. All because their resources were focused on XIV. XIV did directly impact XI negatively, if you can't see it you are blind. It wasnt some direct intention to hurt XI, it just happened naturally when they poured all their resources into advertising and support one game over the other.

[Pixela]

Check every financial report, XI is never listed in any way. There is no finance reports that ever mention XI since playonline accounts were merged with Senix accounts.

All the money XI makes goes to XIV operations, whatever budget we get is from that.

Dragon quest online is also part of BD3 and is always counted on financial reports, none of the people working on XIV work on it and you can't use crysta to pay for it.

I know you have this deadset idea you have to defend XIV and you think players knowing XI was merged into XIV operations hurts it, I think it's quite the opposite. Them being merged helps both games, I just want them to spend a little more on XI to be more profitable to.

[Alhanelem]

All the money XI makes goes to XIV operations, whatever budget we get is from that. Stop. Saying. This. It's False at worst, disingenuous at best. Period.

None of the money XI makes -specifically- goes to FFXIV. None. All of the money goes to Creative Business Unit III (and/or profit for Square-Enix proper), who spends it how they see fit. Even by your own admission, the income from both games is identified as coming from Square-Enix Accounts, and you've never been able to determine the specific dollar sources, one way or the other.

You cannot say based on the financial reports or anything else that Dollar X was earned from FFXI and then later spent on XIV development. It cannot be shown because THAT'S NOT HOW BUDGETS WORK. There is ONE pot of cash for all projects- and again, those projects go beyond both FFXI and FFXIV. CBU3 is working on FF16. So some portion of the income from BOTH games is being spent on that- along with anything else the business unit has ever been involved in.

Dollars earned from any one of these projects can not be specifically identified as going to any other specific project. Not FFXIV, not FFXI, nor FFXVI. Those financial reports do not detail which dollar from which project was spent on what. It simply does not work that way- no matter how many times you repeat that nonsense.

And again, FFXI did not falter simply because SE decided to spend money on other projects (Whether FFXIV or not). FFXI was already in decline: Before FFXIV was announced. Before FFXIV 1.0 was released. After FFXIV 1.0 bombed. And so on. If FFXIV was largely or solely responsible for FFXI's decline, then why didn't it bounce back after XIV 1.0 had proven itself a failiure? By your logic, it should have stolen XI's palyerbase, but that didn't really happen. No, the playerbase was shrinking for other reasons. A lot of people cite Abyssea, though my personal opinion is it was post-abyssea (Abyssea was a power playground and honestly I thought it was really fun. But future content could not live up to what Abyssea offered, because Abyssea made us too strong for regular open world content to allow its mechanics).

I'm just really tired of you constantly repeating "oh, FFXI funded FFXIV, these financial reports (don't) prove it!" It's BS and i've explained at length multiple times (even in just this one post) why it's BS.

[Immortal]

We just have to disagree then because I believe the opposite. XI was faltering before 1.0 because they were already beginning to siphon funds to XIV... lower dev time and resources as a result, hell even the same producer was working on the new game (Tanaka.) It did bounce back after XIV 1.0 failed, thats why an expansion was greenlit for XI, Adoulin. Also most people left because they were butthurt their precious 75 era crap was outdated w/Abyssea. SE made the mistake of outdating things all at once instead of a slow burn. I can only imagine that was because they planned to end XI if their XIV 1.0 was a success because Tanaka was that kind of person. Instead it bombed and they had to pedal back and pour something into XI to hold onto while they fixed the new game. After Abyssea, we had Voidwatch which ended up without the powerful atma buffs and people had more of a challenge with it. Future content did live up to it, but the players became jaded, so many of them just could not get over the fact that things changed so drastically and with XIV on the horizon they felt it was just over. I know so many people who literally forced themselves to like 1.0 because they felt XI was done for.

You don't need absolute paper trail proof that the funds from XI went to XIV, just use your common sense. Its so easy to see that is exactly what happened, I would bet everything that if 1.0 was a success, we wouldn't even have XI around and there would never have been an Adoulin. Just look at Star Wars Galaxies, arguably they had a bigger IP than Final Fantasy and they shut that down so quick once a new star wars MMO came out.

[Pixela]

Stop. Saying. This. It's False at worst, disingenuous at best. Period.

None of the money XI makes -specifically- goes to FFXIV. None. All of the money goes to Creative Business Unit III


No it goes to XIV operations, they are a combined service. All money paid into XI is paid into the XIV account system.

[Sp1cyryan]

No it goes to XIV operations, they are a combined service. All money paid into XI is paid into the XIV account system.

You don't know how SE handles things internally so just stop it already.

[Alhanelem]

No it goes to XIV operations, they are a combined service. All money paid into XI is paid into the XIV account system.Dude just stop it already with the false BS. The fact is some of CBU3's income is going to FF16 and not either other FF game, because that's their primary project right now.

This whole argument is silly and pointless in the first place. It's like complaining that the money I spent to buy Final Fantasy III (that is VI in Japan) was used to fund the completion of FF7 which was on a diffrent platform. I hate Sony and therefore they screwed me over using my money to make something I"ll never buy!

IT'S JUST HOW A CORPORATION WORKS. They can spend their money however they see fit. All I'm telling you is that income is not allocated the way you think it is or want it to be. They simply do not individually decide, okay, these FFXI sub fees will be used to pay the FFXIV server costs, and these server transfer fees will be used to pay the XIV developers, etc. It simply does not work that way, no matter how much you want it to.

[Stuzey]

does it matter? I mean what is this argument about? it's lack of funds going into ffxi, you honestly think it's fair, how much they spend?

do you not want to see new zones? new mobs? just want to see the game given a fresh breath of life?

se do the best they can, but without a clear plan for the future, how to retain players, how do you keep them entertained?

[Catmato]

You don't know how SE handles things internally so just stop it already.

Analhelm seems to know how everything is handled, despite never providing any kind of proof for it.

[Alhanelem]

Analhelm seems to know how everything is handled, despite never providing any kind of proof for it.
I don't know everything, but the stuff i've said about Creative Business Unit 3 is all factual. Yoshida is its head, Yoshida is thus in charge on FFXI, FFXIV, and FFXVI, and possibly other projects, and I just have a good basic grasp on how corporations and business work. Basic economics, basic business and corporation concepts. The information about CBU3 and its projects is publicly available on Square Enix's website. And if you think this CBU3 thing is something im just making up, I mean, they have a logo, the name is prominently featured in the opening cutscene/trailer for FFXIV's Endwalker expansion.

It's worth noting that despite constantly referring to some financial report, Pixela has never linked to it or given any basis for his assertions, while I at least have my basic facts straight.

I will, by the way, report every post in which you deliberately change my username to be inappropriate.

[Alhanelem]

does it matter? I mean what is this argument about? it's lack of funds going into ffxi, you honestly think it's fair, how much they spend?

do you not want to see new zones? new mobs? just want to see the game given a fresh breath of life?

se do the best they can, but without a clear plan for the future, how to retain players, how do you keep them entertained?I'd love to see new stuff. where'd you get the idea that I wouldn't want to?

Be realistic: Why would you or anyone expect SE to suddenly invest tons of money in a 20 year old game and give it tons of new content? It just isn't going to happen. There's no way anyone on the FFXI team or even anyone at CBU3 would be able to convince SE's investors that doing so would have a substantial impact on their business. Now, I don't have clairvoyance, I don't know what any specific person at SE is thinking. Maybe they might have plans for a remaster or something somewhere down the line. A "new" product can make new money. FFXI, even with major new content announced, is unlikely to make significant gains in its playerbase. Not even if FFXIV suddenly stopped existing tomorrow. But a "new" product, like a re-released remaster or something like that, where we can carry over our progress or something, might MAYBE be able to do that.

As for what the argument is about- I just spoke to refute Pixela's false notions that SE is specifically and explicitly "funding" FFXIV with FFXI money, that we're specifically paying for them to develop FFXI and not simply enrich SE's business as a whole. This comes from Pixela being heavily biased against FFXIV and being convinced that everything about FFXI's current state is entirely FFXIV's fault, so he wants to smear it as much as possible.

Games industry companies do not allocate income from one product specifically towards another (unless it's the only other product, perhaps). But all game projects fund all other ongoing and future projects. Pixela is trying to argue that literally every dollar we pay to play this game pays an FFXIV developer's salary and that FFXIV is the *only* thing those developers work on.

It simply is not how companies and corporations work. Money goes into a pot (Accounts receivable) and money is taken out of that pot (accounts payable) to finance its operations. You simply can not directly connect one dollar of income to another specific dollar of expenses. It just doesn't work that way, and Pixela lives in this fantasy land where it does.

I don't really want to spend forever discussing this but I can't abide false information being tossed around.

[Stuzey]

I am realistic, I see people coming back and then leaving again, It just feels like such a wasted opportunity, we all care about the game, we want it to go on for many years and it probably will, but it could be so much more

[Pixela]

I don't know everything, but the stuff i've said about Creative Business Unit 3 is all factual.

I've provided tons of evidence that XI was absorbed into XIV operations many times, you refute it no matter what becasue you think it somehow hurts XIV.

Dragonquest10 is also in BS3 and has zero connection with any of the other games, in any way. XI and XIV are merged, with XIV being the dominant product.

To put it into perspective, XI is to XIV what Tetramaster used to be to XI.

XI effectively just works as a few extra servers clamped onto XIV operationrs, everything XI does or achieves is counted towards XIV.

[Sp1cyryan]

Analhelm seems to know how everything is handled, despite never providing any kind of proof for it.

Hahahahahahahaha.

Whew—that is right. So don't stoop to that level either, lol.

[Pixela]

https://i.imgur.com/GEsyYEY.jpg

[Catmato]

It's worth noting that despite constantly referring to some financial report, Pixela has never linked to it or given any basis for his assertions, while I at least have my basic facts straight.

You haven't linked to anything either, yet you keep asserting what you say as true. Having a name in FFXIV's expansion credits doesn't mean it has anything to do with FFXI.


I will, by the way, report every post in which you deliberately change my username to be inappropriate.

I honestly thought that's what your name was. I have mild dyslexia.

[Immortal]

They just did a "Square Enix news!" and no mention at all about FFXI, yet the other MMO and games were mentioned :(

[Zuidar]

Is it possible to increase the maximum cap of Gallimaufry from 100k?

[Alhanelem]

I honestly thought that's what your name wasI'm really not sure about this, but I'll give you benefit of the doubt. I can assure you that SE would not allow me to use "anal" in a name, in fact that's why I use AlhanElem as opposed to the correct spelling AlhanAlem. Many games see the A word in there and won't let me use it. though some do.


Having a name in FFXIV's expansion credits doesn't mean it has anything to do with FFXI.
I'm not sure what you're referring to here, I never claimed my name in the credits meant anything. If you're referring to Creative Business Unit 3, it is a wholly owned subsidary of Square-Enix, of which Naoki Yoshida is the head. He also happens to be executive producer and director for FFXIV, but the FFXI project is also controlled by CBU3 and the FFXI staff has to go through Yoshida to get development resources. That is why there's no separate listing in the financial report, but it has nothing to do with how income is distributed and spent, which is the issue at hand here. The facts im talking about are the basic facts about how corporations and businesses are run.

Pixela can wave numbers on a financial report around all he wants, but public financial reports are deliberately vague and can not tell him all the things he's trying to extrapolate from them. He also has yet to actually link to this financial report or any other sources for his claims. As for you, if there's something specific you want to demand proof of, I will endavor to provide it. But suffice it to say for now that Pixela's assertions run counter to how corporations budget their time and money. There is absolutely no way to prove that any given dollar of income from one project was directly spent on another. Money goes into one big pool and gets allocated to all projects as needed. They don't specifically assign dollars from one project to another.

[Alhanelem]

Hahahahahahahaha.

Whew—that is right. So don't stoop to that level either, lol.

It's not right at all. I'm willing to go and dig up sources if someone's calling BS on me, and/or label hypotheses or conjecture as such. If you cast doubt on something that I'm specifically asserting as a fact, then say so and I will either find where I got that from or label it as what it is accordingly.

But as far as how monies are collected and distributed in a company, that's just basic accounting, not some Square-Enix specific insider info of mine.

No company goes, "oh, the income from product A will fund the development of product C, and the income from product B will fund the development of product D." Income is generally received into a company account or accounts ("Accounts Receivable"), and then dispersed from that account to cover expenses ("Accounts Payable"). Because income is collected and money is spent seperately, there is normally no way to identify any specific monies spent as having come from a specific source. It can be different for things like charitable foundations, because there are restrictions on how donation money can be spent. But normally, that's now how companies process income.

[Alhanelem]

I am realistic, I see people coming back and then leaving again, It just feels like such a wasted opportunity, we all care about the game, we want it to go on for many years and it probably will, but it could be so much more
Coming and going happens with every game, not just FFXI. Yes, we all care about the game, but any big new thing has to be financially justified. Companies use what's called a cost-benefit analysis or CBA to determine if an idea is worth the effort and expense. And while some major new update may certainly bring some players back for longer, FFXI is still FFXI, it's not likely to bring in many new users that haven't played before, which makes it harder to justify the cost. Companies want to see growth, existing cancelled players resubbing isn't really growth. A remaster *could* grow the playerbase, but they seem to still feel that the cost of doing that wouldn't be justified by the income they'd gain.