November 2022 FINAL FANTASY XI Digest

[Akihiko_Matsui]

The latest FINAL FANTASY XI Digest is now available! The digest covers key features from the most recent version update. Check out the video, try the version update, and leave a feedback based on your experience of playing the new content.

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[ManaKing]

Thank you for giving a definitive statement that Mastery Levels are done at 50. It really cuts down on the speculative nature of many forum posts that can get out of hand.

Edit: My group finally saw it's first +2 earring in Sortie. It went to my friend who does not play the job that it identified as and that job happens to be my main, so bad feelings were had by all. Rolled pretty well to add some extra salt.:mad:

Please take some time to be transparent about if you will ever improve the consistency in which people can expect to see +2 earrings on jobs they actually play. The current system does not seem to be created with the happiness of the player considered at all. If that is not going to change, it would be nice to temper our expectations.

[Shuko]

Outside of lack of alliance difficult content, I was hoping sortie would be. I have enjoyed the new story content alot

[Sp1cyryan]

Thank you for giving a definitive statement that Mastery Levels are done at 50. It really cuts down on the speculative nature of many forum posts that can get out of hand.

They already said that before. Everyone just doesn't listen and wants to get wild imagining things up.

[Alhanelem]

Thank you for giving a definitive statement that Mastery Levels are done at 50. It really cuts down on the speculative nature of many forum posts that can get out of hand.
While I don't mind more progression systems, I've found the grind painful enough in the teens, the higher levels are absolutely insane. I don't even want to know what 49>50 looks like lol.

But they had already said prior that the maximum ML was going to stop at 50.

[ManaKing]

They already said that before. Everyone just doesn't listen and wants to get wild imagining things up.


As the development team's native language is not my own, I expect a level of interpretation on anything being expressed by them. Definitive and clear statements are easy to appreciate.

[InvincibleShield]

Dear FFXI Developers,

i have a small but humble suggestion: Is it possible to implement an option with the Goblin NPC, Ruspix in Leafallia, which allow the player to trade in a number of unwanted Sortie Earrings for a choice of the player's favourite job Sortie earring?


As an example, Lame Deer (A) from Abyssea - Misareaux - (K-7) allows players to exchange x3 other Empyrean footwear for x1 Empyrean footwear of the player's choice.


This could help to reduce the frustration encountered by players currently when trying to farm the sortie +2 earrings. The drop rate of Old Case +1 is already low in the 1st place. Not to mention the inherent randomness of having 22 jobs to deal with when opening the Old Case +1. At least if the Goblin NPC, Ruspix in Leafallia has this new option, it could help alot of players to reduce this randomness... Haha.

For your kind considerations pls. Thanks all. :)

[jasnekholin]

need to see if mega boss chest guarantees a +1 case. if not, big oof. excessive layered RNG with sortie earrings and the ridiculous amount of grinding needed to cap master levels are not fun SE!

[Sp1cyryan]

need to see if mega boss chest guarantees a +1 case. if not, big oof. excessive layered RNG with sortie earrings and the ridiculous amount of grinding needed to cap master levels are not fun SE!

It's not supposed to be quick. You just do it over time.

[Alhanelem]

It's not supposed to be quick. You just do it over time.Some would argue that the amount of time is excessive.

I mind it less when I'm continuoally making progress. RNG on drop rates, you don't make progress. There is no bad luck protection or "pity drop." Someone esle could do the content and be lucky and get it on their first try, and someone else could do the content for months. Versus things like grinding job points and levels, where you will eventually get there, and every time you do it you get closer.

[Alhanelem]

You know what else isn't quick? Exemplar points. I almost fainted when I saw the new numbers....

[Sp1cyryan]

Some would argue that the amount of time is excessive.

I mind it less when I'm continuoally making progress. RNG on drop rates, you don't make progress. There is no bad luck protection or "pity drop." Someone esle could do the content and be lucky and get it on their first try, and someone else could do the content for months. Versus things like grinding job points and levels, where you will eventually get there, and every time you do it you get closer.

It's only excessive for those who refuse to accept they don't need ML past 30, which isn't long to get, and happens naturally. My THF is ML21 from endgame events only and I don't use it that much.
The only argument for going past that is to get Foil, but even then that is more fun than necessary as no content requires it. Gear creep has made ML31+ mostly superfluous for any decent player. Doesn't stop all the foaming at the mouth otherwise though. This is supposed to be a long grind like leveling used to be, where players focus on particular jobs only, except it it optional.

It's really only with V20/25 Odyssey and Sortie EFGH that MLs even matter. Before there was nothing to apply the extra power to. Even then this is limited. Which further justifies the grind.

[Alhanelem]

It's only excessive for those who refuse to accept they don't need ML past 30Don't need to *now*, sure. But we will likely need to eventually. and the EP ramp past 40 is absolutely nuts. I almost fainted when i saw the updated chart on BG (hyperbole, but it is really just... nuts) I know what the intent was, but it seems rather tone deaf when you consider the fact that people who played this game in the preceeding decades probably don't have as much time to devote as they did back then, unless you were already in your 40s or 50s and have retired since starting.

But the comment was really about other things. As crazy as that grind is, every time you gain EXP you're making progress. You don't make progress every time you do Sortie trying to get a +1 ring and one doesnt drop or you get one for another job you don't play. You don't make progress every time you don't get a D ring from KB, get the good stuff from AMAN Trove, etc.



This is supposed to be a long grind like leveling used to beUp until ML15 or so, it literally did feel like classic job leveling. But as you get closer to to 30 and beyond, it starts to become excessive. Not to mention that being KO'd at high MLs can cost hours even with the best raise.

[Sp1cyryan]

Well, I am good with it, and they can speed it up later. I'm happy with ML39 being my highest, and don't care if I ever hit 50. Though 45 for foil be cool and a stopping point.
I don't think there's any justification of wanting it faster other than personal preference or impatience.

[Alhanelem]

I don't think extreme grinds like this should be encouraged, saying "well I don't really have to do it" is just an excuse.

[Velner]

I don't think extreme grinds like this should be encouraged, saying "well I don't really have to do it" is just an excuse.

I don't think the grind is really that extreme. Saturday we were able to get gain a full level and then some in a little over 3 hours (L41 to L42). That really isn't that extreme. And given that the bulk of the benefit of Master Levels can be had at a fraction of the effort, I don't mind the last 10-15 levels being as big of a grind as they are.

[Alhanelem]

I don't think the grind is really that extreme. Saturday we were able to get gain a full level and then some in a little over 3 hours (L41 to L42).Well you probably had ideal jobs for a good party, iv'e struggled to get into parties on SMN and when I do it usually isn't as quick (I've had some good ones but I ended up mostly just being there for buffs lol) 49-50 is 3.3 million EXP and that's going to be several hours of hardcore grinding at best. If you have a job/life, each of those levels could end up being multiple play sessions, whereas even back in the day, reaching lv75 wasn't nearly that long.

[Velner]

Well you probably had ideal jobs for a good party, iv'e struggled to get into parties on SMN and when I do it usually isn't as quick (I've had some good ones but I ended up mostly just being there for buffs lol) 49-50 is 3.3 million EXP and that's going to be several hours of hardcore grinding at best. If you have a job/life, each of those levels could end up being multiple play sessions, whereas even back in the day, reaching lv75 wasn't nearly that long.

Certainly 40 to 50 isn't as bad as L1 to L75 *back in the L75 day. Maybe 1-50 isn't as bad. SMN is just fine for an EP party. I made a video on it eons ago. Everybody can get decent EPs.

[Immortal]

I think its worse, but I haven't checked. The TNL seems higher and we need to kill harder monsters now.

[Sp1cyryan]

Well you probably had ideal jobs for a good party, iv'e struggled to get into parties on SMN and when I do it usually isn't as quick (I've had some good ones but I ended up mostly just being there for buffs lol) 49-50 is 3.3 million EXP and that's going to be several hours of hardcore grinding at best. If you have a job/life, each of those levels could end up being multiple play sessions, whereas even back in the day, reaching lv75 wasn't nearly that long.

SMN should have quick parties if it is filling the slot optimally. Either healing or SC MBing. If you are just going without SCing or standing there then yeah it's a waste. I think a GEO afking with a bubble is a waste too, but it do better than any halfhearted SMN.

I believe Velner has the right idea and sentiment. You just have trouble as a solo player without connections.

[Alhanelem]

Certainly 40 to 50 isn't as bad as L1 to L75.You're kidding right?

Exemplar point gains are relatively similar to EXP gains back in the day. And stuff like the old colibri camps and stuff were very fast kills.

It takes an order of magnitude more EXP to reach the max exemplar level on a single job, than it does for level 1-99 not just 1-75.
Total EXP level 1-99 : 2,051,350
Total EP Mlevel 0-50 : 29,590,127

(Based on the prior EXP cuve, I'd estimate the EXP total including 1-99 would probably be around 8-10 mil, so EP is still considerably longer if you use old fashioned EXP values, which are not far off from today's EP gains)

That's also not factoring in you have to master before you can proceed with Mlevel. 1200 job points doesn't take all that long anymore (if you're playing the right jobs or can get into a party with them) but it's not insignificant either.



Either healing or SC MBing. If you are just going without SCing or standing there then yeah it's a waste. Buffing parties are the best ones I've had. Usually they don't want me to participate in the SCs (because they already have something set up). I'd love nothing more than to be doing those things. Also it seems like a lot of people don't know how BPs fit into SC but that's another issue.

If only trust didn't suck, because with Matsui, I can do something fun where he opens for me > Gate of Tartarus > Darkness > summon MB > Gate of Tartarus > Darkness x2 > Summon MB and its pretty solid. I certainly wish matsui would stick around because he doesn't give me #&$% for using GoT and I do some really good MBs off of it. But between SC the party of trusts is literally just collectively a tank.



I believe Velner has the right idea and sentiment. You just have trouble as a solo player without connections. THis really isn't about connections. I can find parties. But really, it shouldn't be expected of the player to find 100% perfect parties that can down the highest level mob camps in less than no time with perfect optimization. The curve should not be based on the few people who have optimized the game the most- not all jobs can even participate in such parties anyway. What about the jobs people don't play as much?

Even before 40+, Mlv was already the longest/slowest character progression mechanic (aside from finding rare drops for your perfect gear set I suppose), and now it's even more so.

[Velner]

I edited my reply to you to add the context that when I said L1 to L75 I meant during the L75 days. . . and if you're doing EP at the same pace as EXP on Colibri back in the day, you're doing EP wrong.

[Sp1cyryan]

MLs are absolutely better than trying to level to 1-75 as PUP or THF back in the day, absolutely. That's the context that should be applied to these very optional higher level master levels.

[Alhanelem]

and if you're doing EP at the same pace as EXP on Colibri back in the dayWhat I'm saying here is that EP gains per kill are comparable to what we got per kill when we were grinding merits before Abyssea. I'm not speaking to how good we are at killing things. But unless you're in a particularly good party, that isn't far off either.

If I don't have a party and I'm using trusts, kills are slow because I have 5 "party members" that are all significantly weaker than I am. Any party with 5 actual people is better, but how much better depends on the comp and how much everyone else is participating (which can vary wildly :p )

We aren't killing mobs (in an average, not top tier hyper min maxed party) designed for ML grinding that much faster, and the EP gains per kill are not that different (original max EXP a kill was 600. I haven't been to cnest but when i first began to gain EP, we were using existing apex camps where i saw numbers like 200-400. Just the other day I killed some apex empty and got ~440, but didn't like fighting those. But those numbers also go down as ML increases just like EXP did.) so if there's some magic easy way to dramatically increase that per-kill number, please tell me how I'm "doing it wrong." It would take a much much larger number for 29 million to go by in the same time we typically took to get ~2 million back in the day (And 2 million is actually 1-99 not 1-75 but who's counting?).

Consulting the chart here https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Master_Levels , that empty mob was +17 effective level (and checked as IT). Now, as the chart illustrates there's no upper limit and locus / high apex have a higher multiplier which allows the number to go higher. But those are newer additions, and thus far, I've yet to get into a party where these mobs exist. If you can kill +31 level mobs as fast or faster than we killed colibri at 75, that's still only around twice as fast of point gain, but the total points required is more than ten times higher. Even if you're perpetually chaining these 1100 point mobs, it's still more than twice as slow to max master level as classic 1-75.

Sure, I'll give you that maybe, even probably, I'm "doing it wrong." But the argument that ML 1-50 isn't drastically slower than classic 1-75 is farfetched at best. By all means, tell me the exact base and chain per kill numbers you get "doing it right."

Remember: ML 1-50 is 29,590,127 EP
Classic 1-75 is 801,350 EXP
and 1-99 is 2,051,350 EXP

Good 75 parties had no problem chaining mobs for the maximum of 600 (with no party competition), and remember also that most if not all of us were not getting 600 a kill our entire trip from 1 to 75.
To match the time it takes, you would have to be ~35 times more efficient than chaining 600s in the aht urghan days.

The highest known EP value listed on BG's chart is 1152. I don't know about this but I'll assume from your "doing it wrong" statement that you personally are eating these 1152s for breakfast and chaining them to 50 or more, which after reaching chain 50, doubles the number to 2304. That's still only a little under 4 times the per mob value we had back in the day. This means you'd need to kill the absolute best EP giving mobs 8 times faster (i.e. well under 10 seconds a kill considering how fast a good party could chain for merits back in the day) than we could kill the best EXP giving mobs back in the day, in order for the time taken to max ML to be comparable. You can cut that number down a bit more with corsair's roll, but it's STILL considerably slower.

Point being: Even the most perfect EP party is still taking signfiicantly longer to max ML, and ordinary people who are "doing it wrong" will take far longer than that. Even if we restrict these comparisons to *only* 41-50 as you wrote in your post, that's still over 20 million EP and so it's still slower.

Sure, we may be splitting hairs over details here, but I can not accept that killing the strongest EP mobs in like 5 seconds on average is the norm. and what *ordinary players* get "doing it right." (Feel free to share a video of your best EP performance without botting).


Exemplar point gains are relatively similar to EXP gains back in the day.The maximum we could get per kill from an IT mob was 600 w/ chains in the 75 era. There is no hard limit on EP gain but so far the highest mob I've killed for EXP gave me 440 base (so 660 after chain 50 assuming that happens)


I edited my reply to you to add the context that when I said L1 to L75 I meant during the L75 days.That is how I was framing this conversation as well.

[Velner]

I do average 250-300k EP per hour and sometimes 350k per hour once we get in the groove. Moving at that speed would get you L75 in 2.5 hours. . . EPs come significantly faster than EXP back in the day.

[Alhanelem]

I do average 250-300k EP per hour and sometimes 350k per hour once we get in the groove. Moving at that speed would get you L75 in 2.5 hours. . . EPs come significantly faster than EXP back in the day.
The question is this like a real average or an "I'm the best" average.

I definitely do not get 250-300k, or even half of that. With a party of people that are all actively participating. So please, tell us how to "do it right." But what I'm interested in isn't specifically your actual rate, it's the numbers per kill. Now, 250k based on the highest numbers I know exist, is around 3 mobs per minute. Certainly achieveable, we did that meriting on colibri back in the day, but it definitely required everyone actively doing their part the entire time.

And even if we use 250k, that's 4 hours for a million, or 116 hours for 27 million. Which would be a week if you didn't do anything else other than eat and sleep.

If you really tried, you could get 1 to 75 in a couple days, even back in the day. But that's if you're bending over backwards to do it as fast as humanly possible. A week for someone with no life is more like a month or more for someone who does.

So I mean, I suppose it's not that much worse for optimal people being optimal all the time all day every day. But that's not possible for everyone. I'm ML 15 on SMN and I question that I will ever reach ML50, much less do it quickly, unless and until they make EXP events apply to it.

[Velner]

I am certainly not the best by any stretch. I cleave in Crawler's Nest with whoever I can get together for EPs. 1x tank 1x healer and 4x literally any job.

[Alhanelem]

But the real TLDR here is even with your performance, it's still significantly longer than leveling to 75 optimally.1234567890

I've never liked cleaving I feel like it's cheating. but at the same time, I can't pretend it doesn't work.

[Velner]

Meh. Maybe it is worse than leveling to L75 back in the day. . . maybe it's not. I know it took me months to get SMN to L75 as my second job back in the olden days when all I did was level. If I leveled like that now, I could M50 any job in a week or two. I'm not complaining either way. Nothing wrong with a little grind.

[Alhanelem]

Meh. Maybe it is worse than leveling to L75 back in the day. . . maybe it's not. I know it took me months to get SMN to L75 as my second job back in the olden days when all I did was level. If I leveled like that now, I could M50 any job in a week. I'm not complaining either way. Nothing wrong with a little grind.Our first job always took longer because we had all the legwork like unlocking transportation tools, getting spells and gear, and the missions and stuff to do our first time out. For experienced players leveling their 10th job, 1-75 was definitely a few days at most.

My frustration is that traditional party killing (which is still sometimes done by people without someone who can do the cleaving thing) is getting worse and worse and it seems dumb to me that SE is setting the parameters for master level based on the few people who can do it the most efficiently (and least fun-ly, if I'm being honest with you).

Also, that tank needs to be pretty decked out from what I understand. simple EXP grinding shouldn't demand the same as defeating the hardest content.

[Dragoy]

My frustration is that traditional party killing (which is still sometimes done by people without someone who can do the cleaving thing) is getting worse and worse and it seems dumb to me that SE is setting the parameters for master level based on the few people who can do it the most efficiently (and least fun-ly, if I'm being honest with you).

Yeah, I doubt the "cleaving" method was ever intended, but I guess they never really did anything to stop it (maybe limit a bit?). At least they seem to acknowledge that it may affect other players in a negative way (the recent changes to the Crawlers' Nest [S]), unlike in the past ("Summoner burns" in the Korroloka Tunnel come to mind). I guess the location in this case being pretty new in a way, and there being limited areas for this activity probably had an effect in decision making.

I always avoided leveling up that way even during the Abyssea times.

Regarding master levels, at around 14, I think I'd get around 300-500 off of the colibri, making a level in about an hour or so alone with an alter ego party (one battle taking 30-60 seconds or a bit more I guess). Not horrible yet, but it seems it will become that very fast (indeed very much reminding me of trying to get to level 20 and above, solo, back in the day).

I suppose in due time they'll add rings and events that will make it more doable for everyone, but even with all the boosts for capacity points, it still took quite a bit to get 10,000 job points for a weapon upgrade (think I got around 100 per hour during bonus time, alone, and of course there's the weekly limit one could turn those in too, which is always a fun way to make things take longer (no, it's not, really)), so not much looking forward to actually grinding these in.

Guess they'll slowly come in due time... or not. ^^;

[Dragoy]

Whooops, this post sure got a lot longer than the couple of paragraphs I first had in mind!

Apologies to the translating-one (if more than none). ^^;

So... I think it would be fun, if the Intense Ambuscade battles were more often balanced similar to the recent fight with the summoner, which I could do alone, as a samurai with alter egos, on Normal difficulty.

Yes, it would take me most of the time given, and I'd only test it out once (I think that's the battle I lost 2 alter egos in, pretty early, making it a bunch slower).

(Would also be fun if things like Odin did not happen. Not sure if it's by design, or due to the latency I have to the server, but I never have enough time to do the thing that I think is necessary to avoid the other thing.)

There are some other battles that I have been able to do alone in a similar fashion, at least on Easy, like the one with orcs I think it was. The one with lots of mamool ja can be easy too, if there is someone able to make them go for a nap.

Looks like I can do this month's version (iron giants) on Easy, but it takes quite a while, probably mostly due to all the stun and amnesia and dispelling going on (those things are never really fun by the by, especially in such a high frequency (knock-back is terrible too, but not that big of an issue in this particular battle)).

I was done with around 14:35 of time remaining, which means it would take around the same time to do Very Easy three times while occupying the instance a lot less in one go (less time in being more good for people waiting to enter if congestion is a problem). Twice as long as one Very Easy might make a little more sense.

Most of the battles seem to scale up way too quick-like. Usually they can be done on Very Easy in just a couple of minutes in battle, but then a step up to Easy can already be impossible (again from the point of view of a solo samurai, or even with a few other players going as various jobs, with armour varying from Ambuscade +2 to Artifact/Relic +3, and weapons going from fully upgraded Ambuscade ones or similar to fully or nearly fully upgraded Relic, Empyrean, or Mythic weapons).

Yeah, samurai isn't exactly a solo job in general, but funny enough, most often I can do the ones I can do without a tanky alter ego (including the iron giants on Easy this month). If I do use alter ego tanks, they usually can't keep the enemies off of me unless I stop fighting a lot, making them a bit of a waste of a party slot, but that's a topic for another time. I suppose they could do well at least for a while during this month's battle, at the start when the damage dealt to the enemies is pretty low.

(The Lamiæ battle with the charm I guess was pretty easy, aside from the fact that alter egos can't keep their eyes off of them...)

Very Difficult and Difficult can remain as they are I guess (I was never able to do any on those levels), but I'd like to see Normal or at least Easy to be adjusted a smidge.

All that said, I personally have had no real need for anything from Ambuscade for years, so I just do it with a friend or few to have a fun adventure with them, and to help them out. I think being able to do the slightly higher level battles would make them even more fun (if I could, I'd give them my Abdhaljs Seals to boost that ever low 200 points a little bit, my stack of them piling up at 134 pieces currently).

As for the Regular Ambuscade, Very Difficult there can take a pretty long time to beat compared to the lower levels (and can sometimes even be a bit dangerous), but only gives out 300 hallmarks, and so usually the Normal one will be more worth the effort. Here the points don't quite seem to be scaling up as well as they perhaps could.

The bonus bomb is nice, but happens pretty rarely, if at all.

I think that is all... fer now.

Thank you!

[Alhanelem]

I suppose in due time they'll add rings and events that will make it more doable for everyone, but even with all the boosts for capacity points, it still took quite a bit to get 10,000 job points for a weapon upgrade Don't get me started, I was prepared to spend several months doing that given that even 700 a week was going to be a no lifer experience for me. Thankfully I did get a Dynamis D wave 3 clear before I had invested too much time into it...

[Dragoy]

Don't get me started, I was prepared to spend several months doing that given that even 700 a week was going to be a no lifer experience for me. Thankfully I did get a Dynamis D wave 3 clear before I had invested too much time into it...

Yeah, I would not suggest that to my worst enemy even... or their enemies, even.

[Nelius]

Hello!

I have to let devs know about master levels;

The Exemplar points loss upon KO is unacceptable, I see it as a lack of respect towards players reaching master levels past 31.
It has to be reduced to a maximum of 2500 from home point after KO.

Also, all I see for master level are static party using bots to do pulling and kills all night long.
Since Crawlers Nests (S) has been slaughtered with Locus foes, I did not find a single exemplar points party to play with;

Of course ! Most static with bots so they don't want to reveal it to people they don't know / don't trust.

Nowdays, leveling up is all about BOTS and RMTs, I think Square Enix is probably ignoring this , up high from an Ivory Tower. For I cannot see that was intended by design.
Because, last time I checked, both BOTS and RMTs were illegal...

Is it really BOTS that should rewards players the most over players teaming up and playing together to earn their levels trough tactics and battles?

Please fix the master levels content, its such a high amount of grind than it leads to cheating behaviors.

We need a lot more areas where we can earn Exemplar Points! Also, I would like to very high level locus monsters that are a few minutes fights for each foes, maybe 3-5 minute?
But rewards with a large amount of exemplar points. (Maybe 100k per foe). I think that might be fun?

Thank you for your time reading this.

Beoulve.

[Alhanelem]

The Exemplar points loss upon KO is unacceptable, I see it as a lack of respect towards players reaching master levels past 31.The penalty is lower than the EXP loss was at 75 in FFXI. The base is 2% EP, the original loss was 5% of EXP TNL in 75 era. Raise III+ still restores most of this.

It's definitely not trivial at high MLs, but neither was EXP loss back in the day.

I've been griping a lot about ML here, and the grind is definitely worse. but the percentage loss is less than it was back in the day, it only hurts more because the numbers are larger.

Maybe you should just consider not dying.

[Demetric]

Honestly i stopped playing months ago. I'm a DNC main, only came back in the hope of job adjustments. Guess i'll check back in 6 more months. As always nothing but glad to see this game getting updates.
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Take care

[Sp1cyryan]

Honestly i stopped playing months ago. I'm a DNC main, only came back in the hope of job adjustments. Guess i'll check back in 6 more months. As always nothing but glad to see this game getting updates.
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Take care

DNC isn't in desperate need of an update. Why not just play it now?