The failure of Odyssey gear

[Pixela]

Odyssey gear is some of the best gear in the game, however the methods to obtain and upgrade it are not only bad but not in keeping with FFXI traditions.

Something FFXI has always excelled at is the "Ikea effect" in that something you partially create has far more mental value to you than something you just buy. This is a universal and well documented cognitive bias we all share.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect

FFXI has always had two main methods of obtaining gear, creation and/or low drop rates and both of these add value to them in our minds (this is why something like Dalmatica is still my most prized possession, since it took advantage of both). With Ody, you just kill a monster and then buy the gear from an npc. This greatly devalued that gear in the minds of your players, the reason this system is used in other games is because the gear is made to be temporary and that does not fit with our game here.

Ody gear has less value in the minds of your players, and was less rewarding to obtain.

Ontop of that, the first stage rewards players with the visual Ody gear and the long winded upgrade process purely rewarded players with extra augments. Which means most players with Ody gear will never upgrade it.

Either the upgrade process should be easier/faster and/or it should offer some visual reward for doing so.

Even a white box as a +1 would of made a huge difference, but we didn't even get that.

Please in the future don't release gear in this same way you did with Ody.

[Sp1cyryan]

I have enjoyed farming Odyssey bosses for RP more than farming Omen, Sinister Reign, Skirmish, Divergence, or Sortie.

Who cares about FFXI traditions. I think it is nice to give players base equipment that is good for clearing the V0 and give the best players the challenge of V20. If anything, the only failing was that players only need to inflict 5% of the foe's health to get most of the RP with a mog amp.
At any rate, some of that gear only becomes good with augments or only beats or competes with some at or near cap augment rank. That is good. I hope they develop more content like Odyssey and less like Omen or Sortie or Divergence.

[Velner]

I disagree that the Odyssey gear doesn't feel valuable. I'm proud to walk around in my R25 gear. It's still rare as if it has a low drop rate, but it represents time and effort put into a difficult task.

[Sp1cyryan]

I disagree that the Odyssey gear doesn't feel valuable. I'm proud to walk around in my R25 gear. It's still rare as if it has a low drop rate, but it represents time and effort put into a difficult task.

A better system for sure. Rewarding players for overcoming difficult tasks most of the community can not and powering up the same equipment readily available to everyone. No alternative has been better so far.

[Alhanelem]

I generally agree but the process of getting to v20 seems too long, especially with the other excessively long grinds in the game that only the most committed players have the time for.

[Sp1cyryan]

I generally agree but the process of getting to v20 seems too long, especially with the other excessively long grinds in the game that only the most committed players have the time for.

It's really not long. Good groups breeze through the tiers. Doing Sheol A B or ideally C semi regularly is rewarding and benefits the players other character progression.

[Pixela]

I disagree that the Odyssey gear doesn't feel valuable. I'm proud to walk around in my R25 gear. It's still rare as if it has a low drop rate, but it represents time and effort put into a difficult task.

Ody gear should upgrade to +1 when fully augmented, if nothing else. That white border does matter.

[Sp1cyryan]

Ody gear should upgrade to +1 when fully augmented, if nothing else. That white border does matter.

No, it doesn't. The stats would be the same. Any other obstacles are personal problems.

[Pixela]

Online games thrive on prestige, people checking you should show maxed out gear is better than NQ in a very visible way that should not require knowledge of Ody augments. Preferably the best skins (or minor glow effects) should be from the best upgraded armors but that's not going to happen. At a minimum there should be a white box, I don't get why anyone would even argue against that since it would encourage more people to work on upgrading.

inb4 nobody cares about that, yes they do it's human nature to want to be better than someone else and it is a driver to do content. Pretending that's not how our brains work is bad game design.

[Sp1cyryan]

Online games thrive on prestige, people checking you should show maxed out gear is better than NQ in a very visible way that should not require knowledge of Ody augments. Preferably the best skins (or minor glow effects) should be from the best upgraded armors but that's not going to happen. At a minimum there should be a white box, I don't get why anyone would even argue against that since it would encourage more people to work on upgrading.

inb4 nobody cares about that, yes they do it's human nature to want to be better than someone else and it is a driver to do content. Pretending that's not how our brains work is bad game design.

Ah yes, the old human nature argument.

People notice that I have an entire set R25ed and they have a whole set R0 anyway. I don't need a white box around it because I am not such a fragile flower.

[Alhanelem]

Online games thrive on prestige, people checking you should show maxed out gear is better than NQ

Sorry, borders are irrelevant. Otherwise, I could take some low level blue box items and go hey look at me I'm awesome.

[Pixela]

If this were true nobody would buy +1 items for 10-20 times the price, many endgame items that cost 600-1m have 10-20m white box variants.

Unless you specifically know how the Ody armor system works, you will check someone with Ody armor on and it will be identical in every way to someone that has an NQ set.

[Alhanelem]

If this were true nobody would buy +1 items for 10-20 times the priceThey buy them because they're better, not because they have an outline around the icon.

[Sp1cyryan]

If this were true nobody would buy +1 items for 10-20 times the price, many endgame items that cost 600-1m have 10-20m white box variants.

Unless you specifically know how the Ody armor system works, you will check someone with Ody armor on and it will be identical in every way to someone that has an NQ set.

You are basically just trying to twist it into "gimme glamour!!!"

[Pixela]

It's both.

Video game worlds are no different than real life, people will spend more time/money on something to gain prestige over others.

Whether it's buying an apple iphone, a designer shirt, a cash shop cosmetic or a +1. If apple made an iphone with no logo on it, I guarantee you it would sell significantly less than the one with a logo on it (even if it cost more)

Back in the day I joined a HNMLS purely to get a Dalmatica, I didn't want the 50mp and 1 refresh.
I also stopped leveling to buy a haub+1, for that white box, I farmed spiders for months.
When I played a certain f2p game with loot boxes, I ended up spending hundreds of £ to get a very rare cosmetic.

These days idgaf but back then I did, and most everyone else works the same way. Especially in games built around progression and min/maxing.

The developers do already know this, which is why they added master stars and a visible subjob increase with Mlevel. Which is why it's so confusing when they don't add some visible showcase for mastery rank (outside of mentor chat) and white boxes to fully augmented gear.

Ody sets are great gear, poorly implemented.

[Sp1cyryan]

It's both.

Video game worlds are no different than real life, people will spend more time/money on something to gain prestige over others.

Whether it's buying an apple iphone, a designer shirt, a cash shop cosmetic or a +1. If apple made an iphone with no logo on it, I guarantee you it would sell significantly less than the one with a logo on it (even if it cost more)

Back in the day I joined a HNMLS purely to get a Dalmatica, I didn't want the 50mp and 1 refresh.
I also stopped leveling to buy a haub+1, for that white box, I farmed spiders for months.
When I played a certain f2p game with loot boxes, I ended up spending hundreds of £ to get a very rare cosmetic.

These days idgaf but back then I did, and most everyone else works the same way. Especially in games built around progression and min/maxing.

The developers do already know this, which is why they added master stars and a visible subjob increase with Mlevel. Which is why it's so confusing when they don't add some visible showcase for mastery rank (outside of mentor chat) and white boxes to fully augmented gear.

Ody sets are great gear, poorly implemented.

Your first point had no direct correlation to your second point. You are just trying too hard to say something isn't bougie enough for your point of view. It doesn't matter. Especially because the Odyssey gear is well balanced for min-maxing.

[Pixela]

https://i.imgur.com/Z91YdWg.jpg

[Alhanelem]

Back in the day I joined a HNMLS purely to get a Dalmatica, I didn't want the 50mp and 1 refresh.Well no offense but you're weird, because that's why most people wanted it. Sure, TODAY someone might get one for the look now that we have lockstyle sets, but given that cosmetic items weren't really a thing (or rather, a thing that people didn't use because there was no convenient way of using them) "back in the day," situations like yours are an exception not the rule. it's different in FFXIV where there are gobs and gobs of item that exist for the sole purpose of glmaour, and some are rarer than others and command higher prices. but in FFXI, most items specifically intended for vanity are obtained through events or are pretty easy to obtain. And again, I've never heard of someone buying an item just because its icon has a border on it. People bought them because those items with the borders are statistically better than the ones without them, given that those borders specifically signify upgrades over an earlier version of an item.

FFXI does not have anywhere near the same kind of glamour market that most games today have. it is a matter of stats/bonuses for most people most of the time. its not like having the best gear doesn't command prestige on its own.

[Pixela]

The fact games can make more money from a cash shop selling cosmetics than a sub fee proves my point how important they are in the minds of players, a white box isn't better than a cool armor design but it's a visual step up from an NQ box and that's the point. This is why I personally think cosmetic cash shops are actually p2w honestly.

Also a game having less of something does not mean they have less value, quite the opposite actually. HNM king drops had a ton of effort put into the designs, and that's why they were so desired for so long. If XI had a cosmetic cash shop back in the day selling really amazing armors, HNM would of not been what it was.

Getting a Adamn Haub was more about how it made you look, and how few had them than the extra 3 acc and 3 attack etc.

The time and effort investment people put into HNM was partly because it was PVP-PVE but a huge pull was getting the elite "look" to many players above the min maxers. I did HNM or a long time and I know how important the look was to a lot of people.

[Alhanelem]

The fact games can make more money from a cash shop selling cosmetics than a sub fee proves my point FFXIV has both a sub fee and a cosmetics shop, and there is no breakdown available on how much they get from each.

And obviously, FFXI does not have a cash shop, so this point is irrelevant.

[Sp1cyryan]

The fact games can make more money from a cash shop selling cosmetics than a sub fee proves my point how important they are in the minds of players, a white box isn't better than a cool armor design but it's a visual step up from an NQ box and that's the point. This is why I personally think cosmetic cash shops are actually p2w honestly.

Also a game having less of something does not mean they have less value, quite the opposite actually. HNM king drops had a ton of effort put into the designs, and that's why they were so desired for so long. If XI had a cosmetic cash shop back in the day selling really amazing armors, HNM would of not been what it was.

Getting a Adamn Haub was more about how it made you look, and how few had them than the extra 3 acc and 3 attack etc.

The time and effort investment people put into HNM was partly because it was PVP-PVE but a huge pull was getting the elite "look" to many players above the min maxers. I did HNM or a long time and I know how important the look was to a lot of people.

Learn the difference between the self-fulfilling prophecy of your personal definition of "proving" something, and a supporting argument.

Your inability to measure Odyssey gear beyond the cosmetic value of its social credit means your opinions of its actual value don't matter.

[Pixela]

Twitter just proved the value of a prestige cosmetic in the minds of those that own them, even if it's just a tiny icon.

Obtaining a verified badge symbol used to have great value and prestige, you could not just buy it or apply to get one and get it.

Now anyone will be able to buy it for $5 and it will be open to all.

Masses of people who had one are outraged.

Cosmetics matter.

[Sp1cyryan]

Twitter just proved the value of a prestige cosmetic in the minds of those that own them, even if it's just a tiny icon.

Obtaining a verified badge symbol used to have great value and prestige, you could not just buy it or apply to get one and get it.

Now anyone will be able to buy it for $5 and it will be open to all.

Masses of people who had one are outraged.

Cosmetics matter.

False equivalence and surface level observations at best.

[Pixela]

It's not a false equivalence at all, it's showing people care about cosmetic systems online. A social media platform is no different than an mmorpg.

You know what I'm saying is correct, you're just arguing for the sake of it.

[Sp1cyryan]

It's not a false equivalence at all, it's showing people care about cosmetic systems online. A social media platform is no different than an mmorpg.

You know what I'm saying is correct, you're just arguing for the sake of it.

People care about lots of things. Saying the Odyssey gear isn't cosmetic enough is silly.

[Alhanelem]

it's showing people care about cosmetic systems online.

In modern games today? Sure. That's probably true.
In FFXI? Not even close. That's not to say that people don't care at all about their appearance. But nobody buys late game gear for the looks. They buy it because they need it. Looking good (if it looks good to you) is a bonus.

[Pixela]

People care about lots of things. Saying the Odyssey gear isn't cosmetic enough is silly.

No I said there needs to be more of a visual difference between NQ and fully augmented if you want people to engage with it, even if it's just a white box.


In modern games today? Sure. That's probably true.
In FFXI? Not even close. That's not to say that people don't care at all about their appearance. But nobody buys late game gear for the looks. They buy it because they need it. Looking good (if it looks good to you) is a bonus.

Tartarus Platemail

[Sp1cyryan]

No I said there needs to be more of a visual difference between NQ and fully augmented if you want people to engage with it, even if it's just a white box.



Tartarus Platemail

There should be visual difference between everything then! We should glow all colors at once just so everyone knows how little difference there is in their vanity seeking.

Platemail is also gross and doesn't even work in CSs right.