A sub is part of the reason XI is still so successfull

[Pixela]

FFXI still has a lot of people paying to play it (every player is a customer), compared to the rest of the market. A 20 year old game with more paying players than many brand new mmorpgs that don't even have a subscription (and in some cases vs completely free games). New world, bless, elyon are examples.

Why is a sub so good for XI.

Firstly from a developer standpoint it maintains a producer > customer perspective, cause we are paying monthly to play the content developers create. Free to play always leads developers into no longer feeling they have to provide a service, which kills motivation to keep making it. Long term, free play kills games from a developer standpoint (even if they make more money short term). I've played plenty of sub games that went free to play, it has always been the ruination of the games over time.

Secondly, a sub tells your audience that you value and still think this is worth it. You're demanding people accept the value in your product, it just works. "yes it's $12 a month, what of it?"

Thirdly, there is more of a relationship between dev and player. I directly feel I'm supporting the developers to make new content than I do when I buy stuff from f2p games. I know my money goes to pay their wages and so I'm far more willing to do it, it's more of a supportive system for people who like the games.

---

Thoughts on lowering the sub / XIV joint sub

Offering a lower sub to XIV players:

This would be a really bad idea. Firstly you are setting up a position where you are showing favoritism to one group over another and setting up XIV players as the enemy in your players minds even more than is already the case. The "favored son" if you will. Secondly you're showing less value for people who may have been paying for 20 years, or that pay for multiple XI accounts.

You will be creating bad feeling, where it does not need to exist. Some will quit over this, on principle. I possibly would be one of them, so even if you do bring in some new players....you'll lose others over it. Bad business.

If you want to offer incentive to XIV players, there are better ways. For instance, allow an active XIV player to buy the game for $10 all year around and offer them one months free sub with the purchase. Possibly other things such as XI exclusive minions or cosmetics (since XI was merged with XIV productions and they make all the money from XI anyway, they can afford to make XI themed cosmetics to encourage their players to play both). XIV has a financial incentive to make people play both, XI does not.

[Sp1cyryan]

Combining subs was already addressed in the reddit AMA.

[Alhanelem]

Dunno why you're making a new thread about this.

Offering a combination discount would be good for the game as it will attract some players who might not have considered subscribing otherwise- If those players wouldn't have subscribed to FFXI, then it's still a gain in income over them not subscribing.. No one ever said anything about entirely merging the sub with FFXIV, or permanently changing the price for everyone. No one ever said anything like that.

SE has already communicated their feelings on this and we've already beaten this to death multiple times over.

Companies offer sales and promotional discounts all the time to attract new customers. You really have no grasp of how promotions work if you think a special discount for owning and playing both games would be bad.n I really don't understand why you've been speaking out more passionately about this subject than anything else. There is really just no downside to this idea.

Worst case: No one takes them up on the offer, wasting the time and effort of implementation.

Neutral case: Few FFXI players gained and the promotion has little impact; or FFXIV sees a larger gain from the promotion than FFXI. Not ideal but SE still gained $$, so it had an effect
Best case: Both games see some additional players. SE makes more money from subs added from players who would not have otherwise subscribed to the other game.

[Pixela]

Combining subs was already addressed in the reddit AMA.

It's a really stupid idea, and I don't think they understand why.

If they actually do it, I think they will end up losing far more players in the long run.

[Sp1cyryan]

It's a really stupid idea, and I don't think they understand why.

If they actually do it, I think they will end up losing far more players in the long run.

So I personally think most XIV players are undesirable as XI players. I partly think their migration over during certain events such as the free campaign or the 20th anniversary cross marketing push are a detriment to the social fabric of the community.

However, I do know that there is no other alternative to the longevity of FFXI than the inclusion of these people. Let's call them the unicorn blood upon which Voldermort XI shall cling to life with in the dark forest of SEs neglect. It is a life, but a cursed one at that.

[Pixela]

I like FFXIV players coming to XI, I just don't want them to pay less than I do when I pay for 6 accounts and they will effectively be paying for 2.

[Sp1cyryan]

I like FFXIV players coming to XI, I just don't want them to pay less than I do when I pay for 6 accounts and they will effectively be paying for 2.

What's wrong with that? It's part of a bundle in this case.

[Pixela]

People don't like to be treated unfairly.

I don't mind paying $12 for XI x6, but I will very quickly start to mind it if someone else is getting it for $6.

XI is mainly made up for long time customers, the last thing you want is to show favoritism and annoy them.

[Sp1cyryan]

People don't like to be treated unfairly.

I don't mind paying $12 for XI x6, but I will very quickly start to mind it if someone else is getting it for $6.

XI is mainly made up for long time customers, the last thing you want is to show favoritism and annoy them.

What numbers are these?

Once again a bundle isn't favoritism. Last I recall it was $7 a month instead of $12.95, and was to reduce the price of XI only. Saving 5.95 during a limited promotional period for paying for two games at once with no discount on the other isn't favoritism. Do you want to pay more overall to be "fairly" treated?

[Pixela]

If they do this I'm quitting, and if one person feels this way so do others.

I'm paying 6 subs and multiple mules, if someone gets a special price for paying 2 subs I want one too for paying 6. Everyone should be treated the same.

There is zero difference between paying 2 subs for XI and 1 sub for each game, all the money goes to the same place anyway. These are not separate games anymore.

Also to be clear, it's not about the money. It's about being disrespectful to 20 year veteran players and giving new players a better deal. No.

[Sp1cyryan]

If they do this I'm quitting, and if one person feels this way so do others.

I'm paying 6 subs and multiple mules, if someone gets a special price for paying 2 subs I want one too for paying 6. Everyone should be treated the same.

There is zero difference between paying 2 subs for XI and 1 sub for each game, all the money goes to the same place anyway. These are not separate games anymore.

Also to be clear, it's not about the money. It's about being disrespectful to 20 year veteran players and giving new players a better deal. No.

You didn't really address what I said. It sounds like you are just having an emotional reaction without really having anything to support it.

[Pixela]

They did it originally because they were actively in the process of killing ff11 and converting players to ff14.

If they do it again, it will most likely be for the same reason.

[Sp1cyryan]

They did it originally because they were actively in the process of killing ff11 and converting players to ff14.

If they do it again, it will most likely be for the same reason.

Could just be to make more money, but what do we know about running an international company?

[Alhanelem]

I like FFXIV players coming to XI, I just don't want them to pay less than I do when I pay for 6 accounts and they will effectively be paying for 2.
Then subscribe to FFXV and get the discount yourself. Maybe SE would be stupid and make it apply to all accounts and hten you can game the system to save money.
Oops, maybe shouldn't have posted that here.

Different people pay different rates for things all the time, it's part of a free economy.

I pay less than most people to play FFXIV becuase I have a legacy account, which only people who played version 1.x could obtain. For some reason though, no one seems to be terribly bothered by this.

Ultimately they're still giving SE more money if they take this deal- and again, it's money they might not get otherwise- It's not just FFXI and FFXIV, getting someone to subscribe to multiple different MMOs is a pretty hard sell whether they're related or not.

Even without FFXIV, many people have paid less than you do to licenses for FFXI, as they routinely offer sales on it and things like the world transfer service. Why aren't you jealous of those people paying less than you did when you bought the game?

[Zehira]

Can't treat everyone fairly. Some players love 6-boxing and some believe the dev team can't create content that isn't being controlled by 6-boxers, therefore, they will need a GM power handling everything.

I am happy to be in a free company that is being founded by the FFXI vets where we are allowed to share our opinions about Vana'diel but unfortunately the majority of them aren't coming back to play FFXI once again. Our free company house is being reimagined in Eorzea keeping the legacy of Vana'diel alive.

Manage time wisely, my subscription of FFXI can't stay forever.

[Alhanelem]

Can't treat everyone fairly. Some players love 6-boxing and some believe the dev team can't create content that isn't being controlled by 6-boxers, therefore, they will need a GM power handling everything.

I am happy to be in a free company that is being founded by the FFXI vets where we are allowed to share our opinions about Vana'diel but unfortunately the majority of them aren't coming back to play FFXI once again. Our free company house is being reimagined in Eorzea keeping the legacy of Vana'diel alive.

Manage time wisely, my subscription of FFXI can't stay forever.
Personally, as long as FFX exists, I will probably keep coming back to it. Even if I cancel, I will eventually be back, as has been the case many times before. I've invested too much of my life into FFXI's world, it's had an impact on my life and I've made friends that have transcended the game itself. You say this now but even if you quit, you will eventually be back. I know because I've done the same thing- quit, didn't expect to resub, and well guess what I'm here.

[Zehira]

Personally, as long as FFX exists, I will probably keep coming back to it. Even if I cancel, I will eventually be back, as has been the case many times before. I've invested too much of my life into FFXI's world, it's had an impact on my life and I've made friends that have transcended the game itself. You say this now but even if you quit, you will eventually be back. I know because I've done the same thing- quit, didn't expect to resub, and well guess what I'm here.

Story content could be the key for me to come back. Same for FFXIV, I am not hardcore anymore. I am more casual than before and when I think about it I feel like a retired player.

[Alhanelem]

in FFXIV, pretty much all I do (aside from the story) is PvP and soloing the deep dungeons, because i'm a sucker for dynamic content / punishment.

[Zehira]

While I love my FC, I have to be more open-minded with all my new friends on another server who came to XIV from WoW last year (yes a lot). I am pretty sure almost none of them know the existence of FFXI references in XIV. Only consider it a WoW clone.

However, this game, there are still over 3,000 on Asura and almost none of them to flag up for a party and /yell filled of mercs. That's it and like I said manage time wisely. You can't afford your time finishing up everything in both MMOs.

[Pixela]

FF11 players are directly counted as FF!4 players, all the profits FF11 makes are counted towards FF14 on all financial reports. FF11 has a much higher profit margin than FF14 does (aka more goes to profits)

This has been the case since we were forced to move from playonline accounts to Square Enix accounts (ff14 account systems). FF11 has not been its own separate financial product since this time and you can see this because it was not counted on any financial report after this happened (dq10 is and is much smaller), Yoshi P also stated this in a roundabout way on the last XI interview, where he said Tanaka effectively gave 11 to him and his ff14 project to carry on. There are more people playing FF11 than play FF14 on Steam. FF11 player numbers help FF14 player numbers more than Steam does.

Since I'm effectively already a FF14 player account in every way but name by playing FF11 (x6), yes I want that same discount if they do this.

The games has the same GM team on both games, the same server staff, the same community managers, yoshi p is directly in charge of both games, crysta can be used on either game. They are the same financial product.

If your game is kept alive by a hardcore group of veterans, you should do nothing to make them feel as though they are being disrespected and effectively charging them more than others, this will do that. You are taking the FFXIV legacy system and turning it on its head, instead of rewarding veterans on that game you will be punishing them here.

This is how you kill a game, if this is the intent then please carry on. However be aware that you will never be able to convert most 11 players to 14 and since 11 accounts are counted as 14 accounts you will usher in a massive drop in player numbers for ff14 if you damage ff11.

[Zehira]

I think I have read something like this on FFXIAH but that's not something we are unaware of. What I was saying is if I once unsubscribed FFXI then SE will get no feedback from me what I want good for XIV. You can tell me to move to the other official forums but I am already perma-banned from there back in 2013. Sometimes, I have a good feeling this is the best forum for SE to read and what to improve both games during these times. If my suggestions unfit FFXI then they will move mine to FFXIV (most of time).

[Sp1cyryan]

This is how you kill a game, if this is the intent then please carry on. However be aware that you will never be able to convert most 11 players to 14 and since 11 accounts are counted as 14 accounts you will usher in a massive drop in player numbers for ff14 if you damage ff11.

This is sure melodramatic and inaccurate.

[Pixela]

This is sure melodramatic and inaccurate.

People put up with a lot, straws break backs.

[Sp1cyryan]

People put up with a lot, straws break backs.

Brittle spirits are easily broken. If you like the game then your sub fee being the same for 20 years is what matters. Someone else bundling and saving is inconsequential.

[JKap_Goat]

So I personally think most XIV players are undesirable as XI players. I partly think their migration over during certain events such as the free campaign or the 20th anniversary cross marketing push are a detriment to the social fabric of the communinity.


I mean I started FFXI 3 years ago from XIV, been playing XIV for 7, reasons why FFXI pulled me was because of the hybrid jobs, More Dangerous open world worth exploring, more RPG elements that make it feel like A Real Final Fantasy game,. all jobs have their high and lows and try not to balance and be very homogenized like xiv jobs

so I think I enjoy XI more than XIV and XIV has gotten very boring, hallway dungeons simulator with an Open world that is boring and nothing to do

[Alhanelem]

I am already perma-banned from there back in 2013. don't feel bad, you can get banned from there for the mere suggestion of less than total positivity.

[Zehira]

don't feel bad, you can get banned from there for the mere suggestion of less than total positivity.

Neither shall you. That forum is full of loud people. English people are loud.

[Alhanelem]

Neither shall you. That forum is full of loud people. English people are loud.
I was banned during ARR, I called a bad idea the R word. But it didn't happen until several weeks after that was posted, and no one ever voiced a concern. So while I shouldn't have done it, it still didn't quite feel fair.

[Zehira]

I was banned during ARR, I called a bad idea the R word. But it didn't happen until several weeks after that was posted, and no one ever voiced a concern. So while I shouldn't have done it, it still didn't quite feel fair.

It's okay we are grown ups.

English isn't my first language. I speak my sign language. When I read English I have to think through my sign language first.

This community as international groups was a lot more mature than FFXIV for sure. Valkurm Dunes is like a test to players whether they can continue playing or rage quit. I supposedly say this is how the community was built that way.

[Monsuta_Man]

I seen the Q&A on reddit, but must have missed the sub portion. Combined subs would be great. I would find myself playing FFXI more than XIV probably hehe. XIV is solid but they do not have Beastmaster still!!!! WUT!? bst is the best job in FFXI, AND 5. This is not a debate, it is just facts so carry the F on.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/424505-Final-Fantasy-XIV-x-Final-Fantasy-XI-Subscribtion-Combo-Package

[Alhanelem]

XIV is solid but they do not have Beastmaster still!!!! If they put in beastmaster it would almost certainly be a "limited job." Which by and large, the commuinity doesn't really want.

"Limited Jobs" (BLU is the only one but they made a whole game system for it) have a lower level cap and are excluded from current content in order to allow them to be designed more freely without as many balance considerations (It doesn't have anything to do with "trolling" like some people think though.... People have said "If BLU could use the duty finder with everyone else they could troll by going into dungeons without any learned spells to troll people." But the reality is, you can troll on any job and there's no need to deliberately cripple yourself in order to do that....)

If the exclusion from current content was the only thing, I could live with that, but they haven't given BLU a PvP kit (which would be trivial to do) and are excluded from Deep Dungeons, despite the fact that they're tailor made to take on solo challenges, which is a dealbreaker to me.

BST would almost certainly get the same kind of treatment- they'd get something special like a monster collection mechanic, but the diverse range of monsters and the skills they grant, much like BLU, would make balance difficult and thus they'd have to be a Limited Job. No thanks.

[Monsuta_Man]

Well if they keep doing these exp campaigns, I might have to keep subbing. I was going to leave FFXI for awhile, but I guess not.

[Sp1cyryan]

Well if they keep doing these exp campaigns, I might have to keep subbing. I was going to leave FFXI for awhile, but I guess not.

Amazing how it works. Especially considering there is not even an EP bonus campaign, and most of the campaigns are rather trivial. How many consequtive or nearly consequtive months of cards or chain bonus or monster rearing do people need? Is dark matter and XP chain worth subbing for month over month?

[Alhanelem]

Amazing how it works. Especially considering there is not even an EP bonus campaign, and most of the campaigns are rather trivial. How many consequtive or nearly consequtive months of cards or chain bonus or monster rearing do people need? Is dark matter and XP chain worth subbing for month over month?
Even with the campaigns it takes a while for an average player to get those job points. And I don't personally know everyone who has earned Master on every job, so.... there's always something to do for most of us. It really just speaks to how long the Progression Point grind is.

[Monsuta_Man]

Subs, priced copies of the game, optional purchasable items......That is rare for an mmo now and days. Many are buy to play, or F2P with optional buyables.

Then you have people like me, who may start a new account during a sale because nostalgia (Stupidity), thus have 2 copies of the game.

I strongly advise against this lol. I have one account (Beastrizor), with a bunch of stuff I like about it, and another (This one), with a bunch of stuff I like on it................ I wish I never purchased the copy during the sale lol, now I feel obligated to play it due to the work I put in. I understand some people like to "Multitask."

Anyway, it is hard to fathom FFXI not being profitable in some respect. It may not be as profitable as a company may like, but still profitable nonetheless.

https://www.fanbyte.com/news/ffxiv-keeps-square-enix-strong-despite-a-15-drop-in-sales/

If true, I expect them to keep pushing XIV to the moon, no pun intended.....

[Alhanelem]

It's not rare for MMOs to have subs. the two biggest ones in existence have them. That by itself makes it not rare. F2P games are usually ultra predatory with the microtransactions. The whales that keep the good ones going spend way way more than what a subscription to a game like this costs over time. Sub games in reality provide far better value than most people think. "B2P" games can potentially provide the most, but tend to get less support as time goes on than sub games do.

[Pixela]

It's not rare for an mmo to have a sub, it's rare for an mmo to have only a sub.

Many games have optional subs on a f2p model, some have a sub and cash shop (and are predatory, which is why they never allow you to turn off viewing cosmetics on other players). Only XI has a sub alone.