Domain Invasion adjustment

[Catmato]

As others have asked (https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/59589-June-2022-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-Digest?p=644692&viewfull=1#post644692), please revert the Domain Invasion changes for Azi Dahaka, Naga Raja, and Quetzalcoatl. Spike Flail from those enemies was not threatening and was preferable to the other weaponskills the dragons used. Mireu was the only boss who needed adjustment.

[Voidstorm]

Honestly it may be that the wyrms share certain resources and changing it on mireu forced it to change on the rest.
If that's the case, then just leave it as is as I'd rather not be able to flail tank NQ wyrms than get flailed at mireu.

[Velner]

I think it's fine. Everybody will fear Spike Flail again like the old days.

[imhkr]

I've been playing since NA launch and this is the first time I've decided to register on the official forums to post feedback.

I'm a relatively casual player with nowhere near the best gear. This morning while participating in a DI on my THF, I got the last hit on the first wave of mobs, granting me the Awaken buff. This caused my damage to spike such that I became the target of a spike flail, warping me out of the zone and preventing me from getting my rewards.

I understand adding such an effect to a battlefield fight where players can coordinate hate management and damage dealt, but in DI there is zero player coordination. I feel like I was punished for being rewarded the Awaken buff, and if Awaken caused my damage to spike such that just attacking and using weaponskills (not even job abilities like sneak/trick attack) gained me high enough enmity to target me, perhaps the warp effect should be removed and replaced with something more benign.

It appears this was added after One Person on reddit made a comment on the AMA. I've asked other people who play who have never seen spike flail abused in the way the reddit poster was describing, and it feels like this update was made to punish an activity that never actually happened.

Please remove the warp effect from DI dragon Spike Flail.

[Velner]

imhkr:

You don't need to manage hate to avoid triggering Spike Flail. Just don't fight behind the dragon.

[Velner]

I've actually changed my mind on this issue. It seems like this fix, which is aimed at curbing the behavior of one person on one server, is having the unintended consequence of trolling unsuspecting players on all servers. This is probably the best outcome the original troll could have hoped for. . . the devs extending their trolling to everybody.

[Alhanelem]

imhkr:

You don't need to manage hate to avoid triggering Spike Flail. Just don't fight behind the dragon.
If you're a thief, you are probably standing behind to do Sneak Attack. But really, just don't do that and you'll be fine.

Given that the current situation asks that you avoid spike flail, simply dont stand behind the mob and you won't be the one to trigger it.

[BobbinT]

ok... was doing my daily DI stuff, got Zitah, & for some reason... got insta-HP. Saw my chat log being terrorized. Asked LS mates & explained the gist of it. Googled & found this posts.

So weird for what happened on other servers creates another problem to others that didn't know about this. & yes, THF is one of my main & only coming back during return campaigns. Kinda sux having my time wasted tho & getting a hard lesson... ^^;

[Catmato]

ok... was doing my daily DI stuff, got Zitah, & for some reason... got insta-HP. Saw my chat log being terrorized. Asked LS mates & explained the gist of it. Googled & found this posts.

So weird for what happened on other servers creates another problem to others that didn't know about this. & yes, THF is one of my main & only coming back during return campaigns. Kinda sux having my time wasted tho & getting a hard lesson... ^^;

Kinda surprising that you do it daily but only just found out about the change.

edit: reading is hard

[Uriah]

Return campaign just started so, not really surprising at all.

may or may not have missed the first couple days of free play and/or simply didn't manage to pull enmity until today.

[BobbinT]

last I played are May's return campaign, & from what I gather... the changes are quite recent, around June perhaps.


However, as THF, noticed getting huge number of damage doing frontal, which I vividly remember already experience some years ago, hence doing its rear... at least until recent changes. Would probably not surviving this if joining quite late when one doesn't have time to summon trusts or it dies quick & didn't get participation reward points.

[Zenion]

This is kind of a messy situation; I've definitely seen more people complaining about surprise warps since the update, than about spike flail before it, but... there still kind of did need to be something done, because it was something where one player could sabotage server-wide content, with repercussions which would span weeks or months.

The damage reduction on spike flail was good. It makes it less likely to completely wipe out the entire group at the drop of a hat.

The warp effect is a little too much. Terror and resetting enmity would probably be more appropriate. Possibly add a cumulative three strikes sort of setup, where being targeted by multiple spike flails in the same fight gives you heads-up messages and then launches you to homepoint after a fixed number.

Also a potentially helpful fix: Modifying spike flail to only hit targets with some amount of generated enmity, so it can't snipe players just coming in to the fight, or trigger inescapable death loops.

[Uriah]

It really was so much easier than this. Spike flail just shouldn't cover the entire arena. That's it. it's a tail attack. It should be conal. That simple. Make it as strong as you want, it's range is/was just bad design. Always has been.

[Alhanelem]

The Wyrm swings its spiked tail alll around. That's why it's called spike flail. It's tail is large enough to swat a wide area, not just directly behind it.

[Uriah]

It is in fact not long enough to reach 30' in front of the dragons head. Yet, it still manages to do just that.

Every other tail attack is a cone. Now if they wanted it to be a full body flail, instead of a tail flail. Then fine. But it's not.

[Alhanelem]

It is in fact not long enough to reach 30' in front of the dragons head. Yet, it still manages to do just that.I mean, I don't really disagree with that, that isn't the point. its tail is clearly long enough to sweep all around it's body using the point where it attaches to the body as the centerpoint. It can certainly cover more than just your typical conal area. And Spike Flail dates back practically to the beginning of the game with Fafnir/Nidhogg, and it wasn't conal then either.

[BobbinT]

cmiiw... doesn't tail usually came from the "rear"? perhaps u meant the dragon itself likes to spinning around, hence it's "flailing" does 360'.

Also, the suggestion DID say to stay at front, if the flail reaches all direction, kinda a moot point being whichever you stand, no?

[Zenion]

cmiiw... doesn't tail usually came from the "rear"? perhaps u meant the dragon itself likes to spinning around, hence it's "flailing" does 360'.

Also, the suggestion DID say to stay at front, if the flail reaches all direction, kinda a moot point being whichever you stand, no?

You stay in front because for whatever reason, the dragon never thinks to use its amazing 360 degree super death tail unless somebody standing behind it gets its attention. At which point... "oh, right, I have that thing back there, may as well use it."

[BobbinT]

yea...
sometimes I forgot we have "SE logic"... lawl

[Alhanelem]

You stay in front because for whatever reason, the dragon never thinks to use its amazing 360 degree super death tail unless somebody standing behind it gets its attention. At which point... "oh, right, I have that thing back there, may as well use it."
I like to think of it as the monster spinning around is how the attack works in the first place.thus anything in the way of its tail gets smacked.