PUPdate is a fail ;_;

[Lushipur]

Crit ws is fine but i hope there is more for us than what was said ;_;

4 new attach and no one is nearly similar to what we asked for years ;_;

[xbobx]

one good attachments and a crit based ws. Only good from that. And the attachment are annoying elements forcing you to give up something. I can see me only equipping the new wind attachments.

WHERE ARE THE AI FIXES SE ARE YOU GUYS GOING TO KEEP IGNORING THIS FOR ANOTHER 4 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dfoley]

Without the ability to 'choose' ws I dont really think adding a 4th was the right idea.

Not to mention none of those attachments seem that needed.

Burtts makes the fire one useless
mm atma and DEA makes the ice one useless, not to mention it will only be used on nuker not white mage
barrage is nice for the sharpshooter
lightning is good for VE tanking, with burts and dark maneuver

I really wish the SS one was the crit though, not the VE, being as the SS is supposed to be the DD

[xiozen]

Crit ws is fine but i hope there is more for us than what was said ;_;

4 new attach and no one is nearly similar to what we asked for years ;_;

Ok, let's look and see what has been pro-offered:

# The following automaton attachments will be added:

Name Description
Heat Capacitor A fire-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Erases all Fire Maneuver effects to restore TP.

***This attachment, as described, will allow your automaton to literally spam weaponskills...combined with the inhibitor, you're looking at multiple skillchain opportunities...combined with the Burattinaios---your tp is practically unlimited...combined with the Heatsink is pure win, for fire maneuver spams.


Power Cooler An ice-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Reduces MP cost in proportion to the number of Ice Maneuvers in effect.

****As well know, most of us use 3 Ice Maneuvers to increase the Magic Attack Bonus of our blm automatons... this attachment "should" allow a significant reduction in the amount of MP used per nuke---as a direct result, the automaton will ASPIR spam less often than before. D.A.D will always be used when doing the hate-less nuke strategy but with less mp being used per nuke... I'm loving this!

Barrage Turbine A wind-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Erases all Wind Maneuver effects to occasionally grant a Barrage effect.

***Barrage = Firing multiple shots at once... + Burattinaios... we're talking a whole new level of hurt...depending on how occasional the Barrage effect is granted, assuming you are using 3 wind maneuvers in order to capitalize on the Barrage Turbine attachement. I'm excited about this and curious to see how its implemented.

Galvanizer A lightning-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Increases chance of countering in proportion to the number of Thunder Maneuvers in effect.

***Valor Edge just got better---we're talk' combining this with the Burattinaios for Bone Crusher lock, and 3 Thunder Maneuvers up, with the Coiler and maybe, depending on slots available, the Dynamo for additional critical hit rate increase... can turn into a formidable buddy.


# The following weapon skills will be added for the Valoredge and Sharpshot frames:

Skill Name Frame Effect
String Shredder Valoredge Delivers a twofold attack.
Critical hit rate varies with TP.
Armor Shatterer Sharpshot Delivers a fourfold attack.
Additional effect: Weakens defense
Additional effect duration varies with TP.

****All of the weapon skills sound like complete WIN... i'm curious to see how awesome a 4-fold ranged attack comes out...assuming it is a ranged attack...but since the ranged attack penalty was removed some time ago, it's always a good idea to have the sharpshot deployed within melee range anyway... of course with the Burattinaios equipped this isn't entirely necessary.

GREAT GREAT GREAT SE!!!! I look forward to the implementation.

****The player base is as unforgiving as always... you don't get what you want you cry... you get what you want but it's not what you want because you're always changing what you want.... you ask for something to be done, and it's implemented ...but wait, it's not the exact way you wanted it implemented, so you cry... more adjustments are made based on what the majority of the players want and some other players who are not part of the initial player base that cried, starts crying..... Moral of this story: You can please some people some of the time but not all the people all of the time.

[xbobx]

First, they still didnt fix the AI issues.

If these attachments are 3 elements, they are useless because you have to give up a lot to equip.
the fire one. this is exactly what will happen. Puppet has 100 tp, put up fire man for the dmg boost from the other attachment. But this attachment activates, erases the fire man, giving puppet 120 tp say, puppet ws, does less dmg. Attachment garbage for DD.

[Psion]

Barrage is fail, because it eats maneuvers. :/ If it didn't do that it would be hot.

MP Reduction is great, but only outside abyssea.

Counter is great as well, although it sucks that it's lightning and not earth, fire, or dark, or even water, which all have other attachments that are defensive and commonly used on VE.

Fire one.... meh. Again, losing fire maneuvers sucks, and it also means you can't use flame holder along with it, not that it's that great, and you also give up some fire slots normally used for attack for this, which means you lose out on DoT.

As far as the weaponskills go, on the other hand. <3 Just wish that valoredge's weaponskill restored HP, and was actual HP restore and not drain, so that it would work even on undead.

[Dfoley]

Xiozen, you seem to be way over estimating this:

Fire Attachment sounds like:
Consumes 1 fire maneuver to add 10 tp on deploy
Consumes 2 fire maneuvers to add 25 tp on deploy
Consumes 3 fire maneuvers to add 50 tp on deply

All of which are rather pointless since you will be giving up wind maneuvers for barrage or dark/lightning maneuvers for cannibal blade, and if you have burts your going to have 100 tp by the time you get 3 fire maneuvers up anyways.

Verdict: Total fail
Suggestion: Change to regain
0 - 3 fire maneuvers adjusts regain from 1 to 10

Power cooler
Only viable for blm, and i cant stress how pointless that is. The blm is typically used for deploying with 3 ice up to nuke then deactivating, at best you use 2 nukes before you peel agro and have to deactivate before getting hit. If you use this with whm it will prioritize spells other then heals which you dont want, and cure vi would benefit far more for this then the blm does.

Verdict: Partial fail
Suggestion: Should have been a light attachment.

Barrage
No comment
Verdict: Total win, stacks with other wind based maneuvers to enhance Sharpshooter. Only thing better would be if it didnt consume maneuvers

Galvanizer
Only really good VE since you typically use SS with wind and VE for melee. That being said, it is a welcome tanking attachment and will go well with burts.
Verdict: Partial win
Suggestion: Only thing better would be if we could control pet WS, aka this with cannibal blade would be complete win

String Shredder
Great in theory.
Verdict: Depends, see suggestion
Suggestion: Since Fire, Light, Thunder, and Dark already trigger ws this will be Ice, water, or wind. All of which make me so very sad since it will be harder to trigger since none of those are used with VE. I cant stress how badly we need the ability to pick ws.

armor shatter
Seems to have potential. Wind maneuver is still free as a trigger, which would completely rock as the trigger, and at 4 hits were looking at 3-4k since armor piercer is already 2k.
Verdict: Potential for complete win
Suggestion: Will have to see how defense down compares to ignores defense, but again this will depend on the maneuver to trigger, again we totally need the ability to choose triggers for ws.

[Lushipur]

Ok, let's look and see what has been pro-offered:

# The following automaton attachments will be added:

Name Description
Heat Capacitor A fire-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Erases all Fire Maneuver effects to restore TP.

***This attachment, as described, will allow your automaton to literally spam weaponskills...combined with the inhibitor, you're looking at multiple skillchain opportunities...combined with the Burattinaios---your tp is practically unlimited...combined with the Heatsink is pure win, for fire maneuver spams.


Power Cooler An ice-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Reduces MP cost in proportion to the number of Ice Maneuvers in effect.

****As well know, most of us use 3 Ice Maneuvers to increase the Magic Attack Bonus of our blm automatons... this attachment "should" allow a significant reduction in the amount of MP used per nuke---as a direct result, the automaton will ASPIR spam less often than before. D.A.D will always be used when doing the hate-less nuke strategy but with less mp being used per nuke... I'm loving this!

Barrage Turbine A wind-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Erases all Wind Maneuver effects to occasionally grant a Barrage effect.

***Barrage = Firing multiple shots at once... + Burattinaios... we're talking a whole new level of hurt...depending on how occasional the Barrage effect is granted, assuming you are using 3 wind maneuvers in order to capitalize on the Barrage Turbine attachement. I'm excited about this and curious to see how its implemented.

Galvanizer A lightning-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Increases chance of countering in proportion to the number of Thunder Maneuvers in effect.

***Valor Edge just got better---we're talk' combining this with the Burattinaios for Bone Crusher lock, and 3 Thunder Maneuvers up, with the Coiler and maybe, depending on slots available, the Dynamo for additional critical hit rate increase... can turn into a formidable buddy.


# The following weapon skills will be added for the Valoredge and Sharpshot frames:

Skill Name Frame Effect
String Shredder Valoredge Delivers a twofold attack.
Critical hit rate varies with TP.
Armor Shatterer Sharpshot Delivers a fourfold attack.
Additional effect: Weakens defense
Additional effect duration varies with TP.

****All of the weapon skills sound like complete WIN... i'm curious to see how awesome a 4-fold ranged attack comes out...assuming it is a ranged attack...but since the ranged attack penalty was removed some time ago, it's always a good idea to have the sharpshot deployed within melee range anyway... of course with the Burattinaios equipped this isn't entirely necessary.

GREAT GREAT GREAT SE!!!! I look forward to the implementation.

****The player base is as unforgiving as always... you don't get what you want you cry... you get what you want but it's not what you want because you're always changing what you want.... you ask for something to be done, and it's implemented ...but wait, it's not the exact way you wanted it implemented, so you cry... more adjustments are made based on what the majority of the players want and some other players who are not part of the initial player base that cried, starts crying..... Moral of this story: You can please some people some of the time but not all the people all of the time.

without new slot for attachment or new elemental slot capacity and not knowing how much elemental slot this new attachments need (and i bet 2-3 is a given) al of this new attachment are probably useless

not talking about the fire manuvers -> chimera ripper (if the new ws is not fire too and have high priority)

yes, having new toys to play with is cool...but there were other issue to be resolved first (imho)

and the pup playerbase is far from whining...and it seems to me we all agree to some point like the ai fix

[xiozen]

Unless SE decides it's necessary to allow more attachment slots on the frames or increase the number of elements each frame may allocate---we'll have to make some sacrifices. I personally have no problem with that. If someone can explain why you feel it's necessary to have everything you had before in addition to what has been added... that doesn't make sense to me.

Even now you must make sacrifices to equip our automatons'; not enough ice maneuvers, ok... remove something and add something else to compensate for the loss. The addition of these new attachments is really no different than anything else we already have to do... we make sacrifices in order to equip our automatons...

What this really boils down to is... Player A has gotten "use" to using his/her automaton a specific way... albeit, mage frame, ranger frame or other... Player A gets new attachments to play with from SE... Player A is "SHOCKED" that the new attachments means, he/she can't attach his/her favorite well used attachments... so Player A is confused as to how Player A can incorporate the new attachments AND keep his/her favorite well used attachments in play... OH BUT SHOCK... Player A can't keep all of the attachments Player A is use to keeping because Player A's automaton doesn't have enough slots... so, Player A grumbles and spits fire in frustration that SE delivers such "Trash"... Player A is upset because Player A doesn't want to go back to the basics of assembling his/her automaton again... Player A considers it too much work...

Adjusting is never easy...get over it. As you learned many, many levels ago to work with what we're given and MAKE IT WORK... you'll do the same with this new combination... that's all it is, additional attachments to be "COMBINED" with our automaton to create a new way to play. Experiment and have fun doing it.... don't knock it until it's implemented... try to stop passing such negative judgment prior to implementation.

[xiozen]

but there were other issue to be resolved first (imho)

and the pup playerbase is far from whining...and it seems to me we all agree to some point like the ai fix

The key word, you mentioned ...is fix... it doesn't make sense to me to include a "FIX" in an update announcement. SE has a history of "fixing" issues but not annouceing such fixes in these types of announcements. We're assuming the AI correction isn't being addressed primarily because it's not being announced. I believe enough of us have spoken about this issue and SE is already aware... why whine about something that is so glaringly obvious.

I suggest waiting until post-update to determine if a fix has been implemented "Ninja-style"...

[Dfoley]

Well here's the thing, i have no desire to equip the flame attachment at all. Since it consumes fire manuevers its pointless since it wont stack with flame holder, and if I had to pick I would always pick flame holder.

I wont ever use the ice one since i would rather have loud speaker x2 anyways, if anything id add mana booster to make it so i can cast more often. Why give up casting speed or dmg for less mana?

The counter one, I have no issue giving up coiler/dynamo for more tanking.

[xiozen]

Xiozen, you seem to be way over estimating this:

Fire Attachment sounds like:
Consumes 1 fire maneuver to add 10 tp on deploy
Consumes 2 fire maneuvers to add 25 tp on deploy
Consumes 3 fire maneuvers to add 50 tp on deply

All of which are rather pointless since you will be giving up wind maneuvers for barrage or dark/lightning maneuvers for cannibal blade, and if you have burts your going to have 100 tp by the time you get 3 fire maneuvers up anyways.

Verdict: Total fail
Suggestion: Change to regain
0 - 3 fire maneuvers adjusts regain from 1 to 10

Power cooler
Only viable for blm, and i cant stress how pointless that is. The blm is typically used for deploying with 3 ice up to nuke then deactivating, at best you use 2 nukes before you peel agro and have to deactivate before getting hit. If you use this with whm it will prioritize spells other then heals which you dont want, and cure vi would benefit far more for this then the blm does.

Verdict: Partial fail
Suggestion: Should have been a light attachment.

Barrage
No comment
Verdict: Total win, stacks with other wind based maneuvers to enhance Sharpshooter. Only thing better would be if it didnt consume maneuvers

Galvanizer
Only really good VE since you typically use SS with wind and VE for melee. That being said, it is a welcome tanking attachment and will go well with burts.
Verdict: Partial win
Suggestion: Only thing better would be if we could control pet WS, aka this with cannibal blade would be complete win

String Shredder
Great in theory.
Verdict: Depends, see suggestion
Suggestion: Since Fire, Light, Thunder, and Dark already trigger ws this will be Ice, water, or wind. All of which make me so very sad since it will be harder to trigger since none of those are used with VE. I cant stress how badly we need the ability to pick ws.

armor shatter
Seems to have potential. Wind maneuver is still free as a trigger, which would completely rock as the trigger, and at 4 hits were looking at 3-4k since armor piercer is already 2k.
Verdict: Potential for complete win
Suggestion: Will have to see how defense down compares to ignores defense, but again this will depend on the maneuver to trigger, again we totally need the ability to choose triggers for ws.

Then conversely you are grossly underestimating it...

Where in the update are you getting the tp consumption for the fire maneuver... are you saying this is how it is now? Or did they release updates to the update explaining exactly how the new fire attachment will function? You mention it "sounds like"... this is your opinion... and as such I suggest waiting until post-update... less chance of being disappointed...since you wouldn't have set your expectations unreasonably high.

Your opinions about the other attachments are great since that's how you play... hate to point out the obvious, but not all puppetmasters play the job the same way dude... so, making suggestions like what you've mentioned sorta boxes folks into Dfoley's way to play the job...which is abit obtuse.

The jobs greatest asset is it's ability to customize... and be creative with how to play the job... bandwagoning this job is not the best way to play or tell someone to play--because its very flexible.

Open your mind a bit and wait til the update is released to see how these things are implemented... only then can I suggest you state your opinion based on what YOU EXPERIENCE with regards to the update... cause it'll make much more sense.

[Dfoley]

I guess well work on your reading skill xiozen.

1) Heat Capacitor A fire-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Erases all Fire Maneuver effects to restore TP.

Where in the update are you getting the tp consumption for the fire maneuver.

Fire Attachment sounds like:
Consumes 1 fire maneuver to add 10 tp on deploy
Consumes 2 fire maneuvers to add 25 tp on deploy
Consumes 3 fire maneuvers to add 50 tp on deply

Not sure where you read that it consumes tp for a fire maneuver... AND I said it sounds like, as in I was assuming the tp gain, however no matter how much tp you gain its still pointless since i would never equip it over flame holder since they cancel each other out.

2) Yea i assume when you play pup you know how it works, and that when you want to heal you dont want ice maneuvers up, my bad, and I assume that you dont want your pet hit cause then you cant DAD you have to DEA and repair, then DAD again all of which costs time and DD. Its not just 'my way of playing', anyone who uses the blm and whm can tell you that.

[Lushipur]

The key word, you mentioned ...is fix... it doesn't make sense to me to include a "FIX" in an update announcement. SE has a history of "fixing" issues but not annouceing such fixes in these types of announcements. We're assuming the AI correction isn't being addressed primarily because it's not being announced. I believe enough of us have spoken about this issue and SE is already aware... why whine about something that is so glaringly obvious.

I suggest waiting until post-update to determine if a fix has been implemented "Ninja-style"...

you are right with the fix / update things but, for me, things was like this:

1) two months ago on twitter they said there was some big news for puppetmaster;
2) two moths pass tspeculating on forum about new frame, light/dark attach, new ws, ai fix and so on
3) update news finally arrive and...all of my (ours?) expectation are totally crushed

yes im exagerating a bit, but i really care about the job and would really see some pup love from SE after all this years of hatred :P

talking about the new fire attach, i really hope its stacks with other fire attach, so you consume fire man. and get both effects....and i really hope the new ws is fire triggered...im asking too much?

[xiozen]

"anyone who uses the blm and whm can tell you that...

Point in case... you speak for the entire player base... /wrists

[xiozen]

you are right with the fix / update things but, for me, things was like this:

1) two months ago on twitter they said there was some big news for puppetmaster;
2) two moths pass tspeculating on forum about new frame, light/dark attach, new ws, ai fix and so on
3) update news finally arrive and...all of my (ours?) expectation are totally crushed

yes im exagerating a bit, but i really care about the job and would really see some pup love from SE after all this years of hatred :P

talking about the new fire attach, i really hope its stacks with other fire attach, so you consume fire man. and get both effects....and i really hope the new ws is fire triggered...im asking too much?

Kudos, to you, yours is probably the most reasonable and well-thoughtout post yet regarding this...

Intelligent position to be in asking how the fire maneuver effects will impact other attachment effects and whether the consumption will take priority etc... I believe these are the questions and comments which will allow us to assist the Devs more than...other posts.

Kudos...to you.

[Anza]

I'd add that the Fire attachment is even more useless since it will trigger bad WS if you're not careful and have more fire up than the desired trigger maneuver. Arcuballista for SS, and Chimera Ripper for VE. Also, I would strongly suspect this attachment will work like Economizer and have a hidden timer (Economizer is 3 minutes), so that fire maneuvers will just sit there if the attachment is waiting on that hidden recast. Once the ability is ready for recast and the puppet is deployed, the puppet will consume the amount of active fire maneuvers. So getting full fire maneuvers up would often be a waste of time - this attachment would be best used by simply cycling in only one fire maneuver in your normal DD setup, but at a high cost of messing up your setup and hurting other useful fire attachments (Flame Holder, Tension Springs).

My breakdown of the attachments:
1. Galvanizer - nice addition to VE tanking. No real downside, except that using too many thunder maneuvers will cause unwanted String Clippers (and interfere with WS selection when tanking with VE using Cannibal Blade) so you won't be able to pump this up too much. I hope it takes only one thunder slot to pair it with Coiler/Dynamo.

2. Power Cooler - nothing special, but I guess it doesn't hurt to slap it on Spiritreaver if it costs only 1 ice slot (pair with the common Loudspeaker x2 and Ice Maker setup, which are 6/7 and always leave a free ice slot). At least maybe avoid an unnecessary Aspir when hitting the overly high MP threshold. For Soulsoother, I'd get minor use out of it sometimes - like when soloing stuff that isn't too hard and you're tossing enfeebles anyway (Tranquilizer + Ice to ensure they stick, running a light/ice/?? rotation). Fairly underwhelming, but whatever - I could see myself occasionally using it.

3. Barrage Turbine - I'm not so impressed. Consuming wind maneuvers is an annoying cost that hurts Turbo Charger and Scope, and the random nature makes it hard to predict hate spikes that might cause you to have an unwanted SS-tank. Plus, if the new WS is tied to wind maneuver, you might lose it unintentionally by having the automaton steal all of your wind maneuvers.

4. Heat Capacitor - utter trash, as described above

My breakdown of the weapon skills:

I'm reserving judgment on the SS WS - 4 hit ranged attack means the damage will probably be inconsistent due to missed hits, and might be lower damage overall than Armor Piercer anyway. It does have a nice party benefit with the defense down, so maybe that added effect will be the big calling card of this WS in the end, and Armor Piercer will remain as the pure damage WS.

String Shredder looks nice. Sort of an Ascetic's Fury for automaton - 2 hit, crit. Honestly, this + Burts makes me think I might default to VE for my all purpose DD automaton instead of SS. The downside is that VE now has FIVE WS, and triggering them is going to be obnoxious. Wind/Ice/Water/Earth are free now. For DD purposes, I'm using Wind anyway for Turbo Charger so if that's the associated element that would mean constant String Shredder. But no matter what maneuver, it makes it harder to trigger Cannibal Blade and use the other attachments you want, which is a significant hindrance to Burt-tanking with the very important Cannibal Blade spam.

One of my key points from the "Letter to the devs" here in the forum is stressed again. The system of choosing WS based on dominant maneuver is getting very much out of hand. For VE in particular, with 5 different WS it's now going to be very difficult to strengthen desired attachments while still getting the preferred WS. Big problem. I'd be perfectly fine with a fix where you can choose your own trigger maneuver for each WS based on your own preference - even if you can't do it on the fly, I'd be fine having to go to an NPC in town or do it in the mog house.

[xbobx]

I agree completely what you said. Would be nice if you could lock in two ws, and choose their triggers in town.

[Glamdring]

to those complaining about the AI, these are actual job changes, not tech support, and those items are not classed as job changes. when we see the announcement after updates it usually falls in the "known issues" or "system changes" section. if there is to be a change to AI I would expect it to be posted in a issues post.

Of course, it's possible the AI is not broken but is working exactly as SE intended and the "flaws" are intentional and for game balance...

[xbobx]

"Of course, it's possible the AI is not broken but is working exactly as SE intended and the "flaws" are intentional and for game balance... "

I hope they dont consider this since the fellows are smarter then the puppets. I see what you are saying about not being mentioned, that they are not a job adj. But considering they have been broken since day one, Players have been complaining about it since day one, SE themselves have said they were not working as intended during of of the festivals, it probably should be mentioned in the job adjustments

[Frapp]

What I would like to know is why everyone is saying Power Cooler is useless. If it costs 1 Ice Capacity, then why not install it in the one remaining Ice Slot on Spiritreaver when everything else costs 2+? Also, the only Ice Attachment I use on Soulsoother is the Mana Booster because all the other Ice Attachments are useless on WHM bot. If my Automaton can use less MP when she decides to drop a 300HP Cure VI on somebody, sign me up. Less MP usage + Reduced time between casts? How is that a bad thing?

[xbobx]

that is where i see it as useful, but only on soulsoother. Either way, some of these attachments just weren't thought out well, but that is par for the course for SE, they never think things through.

[Keyln]

Fire Attachment sounds like:
Consumes 1 fire maneuver to add 10 tp on deploy
Consumes 2 fire maneuvers to add 25 tp on deploy
Consumes 3 fire maneuvers to add 50 tp on deply

All of which are rather pointless since you will be giving up wind maneuvers for barrage or dark/lightning maneuvers for cannibal blade, and if you have burts your going to have 100 tp by the time you get 3 fire maneuvers up anyways.

Verdict: Total fail
Suggestion: Change to regain
0 - 3 fire maneuvers adjusts regain from 1 to 10

Where are you people making these numbers up? I mean, unless you guys are psychic or actually work at SE, I don't think anyone can reasonably say what numbers are going to be. But at the same time, do you honestly think that a 3 fire maneuver TP gain is going to be worse than a /SAM meditate?

I'm all for preventing irrational exuberance, but that doesn't mean that we need to go to irrational pessimism. Here's the way I see it. When SE changes the game for PUP, they usually do so with new abilities and attachments. (See Icemaker and Economizer) And I don't think there's anyone here who believes these aren't potentially game changing. But before we go "it sucks!", let's wait until we get the attachments, k? I mean, the worst that could happen is that I throw those attachments with my Smoke Screen and Tactical Processor. Best thing that could happen is that I'll have to change my strategy around to bring out the best in my automaton.

And as far as AI issues go, when has SE ever announced changes to those? Remember when the automaton used to go for the weakest skillchain (e.g. level 1) possible when skillchaining? Yeah, they fixed that when they introduced the last set of automaton weaponskils. Or how about when automatons nuked only when there was a light and dark maneuver, and only used enfeebles with ice? They fixed that about the same time they introduced the Ice Maker.

My point is here is to not be so negative. Avoiding irrational exuberance is good, but going so far as to go into irrational pessimism isn't good. Let's try to keep an even head until after the update, k?

[xbobx]

They ignored the AI issues for 4 years. Don't you think fixing it is something they should mention in an update? Don't you think the pup player base deserves that after all these years?

[Dfoley]

Where are you people making these numbers up? I mean, unless you guys are psychic or actually work at SE, I don't think anyone can reasonably say what numbers are going to be. But at the same time, do you honestly think that a 3 fire maneuver TP gain is going to be worse than a /SAM meditate?

I'm all for preventing irrational exuberance, but that doesn't mean that we need to go to irrational pessimism. Here's the way I see it. When SE changes the game for PUP, they usually do so with new abilities and attachments. (See Icemaker and Economizer) And I don't think there's anyone here who believes these aren't potentially game changing. But before we go "it sucks!", let's wait until we get the attachments, k? I mean, the worst that could happen is that I throw those attachments with my Smoke Screen and Tactical Processor. Best thing that could happen is that I'll have to change my strategy around to bring out the best in my automaton.

And as far as AI issues go, when has SE ever announced changes to those? Remember when the automaton used to go for the weakest skillchain (e.g. level 1) possible when skillchaining? Yeah, they fixed that when they introduced the last set of automaton weaponskils. Or how about when automatons nuked only when there was a light and dark maneuver, and only used enfeebles with ice? They fixed that about the same time they introduced the Ice Maker.

My point is here is to not be so negative. Avoiding irrational exuberance is good, but going so far as to go into irrational pessimism isn't good. Let's try to keep an even head until after the update, k?

Read the post, i said it sounds like, and thats mostly because of past experience. Unless it was 100 tp for 1 fire maneuver I dont see it being useful at all. Do I honestly think a 3 fire maneuver would be worse then sam meditate? I see it as a possibility, yes; do i know for certain, no. Look at economizer for reference.

Id hardly call it irrational pessimism, its more like logical guesstimation.

Would you agree/disagree that:
Barrage: Would be 10000% better if it didnt consume wind and as such didnt mess with haste/range acc?

Fire attachment: Wouldnt it be 1000000000% ^2 better if it was a flat regain, didnt consume maneuvers, and stacked with flame holder? We have tactical switch and burts, did we really need another way to feed our pet tp?

Ice attachment: Wouldnt it be better if it worked on both mages instead of just the blm? Since the blm always has 2x loud speakers and the whm rarely uses any ice attachments other then mana booster? Ice was just a poor choice considering its going to make your pet paralyze the mob instead of cure you.

[xbobx]

you should be keeping a light up always anyways, so keeping up light and thunder, i don't see the issue there. Light, dark, thunder. cycle at start to chose enfeebles.

[Frapp]

I'm just gonna make some "logical guesstimations" myself here.


Barrage: Would be 10000% better if it didnt consume wind and as such didnt mess with haste/range acc?
If its a single Barrage shot (like with RNG), then it will probably have a hidden recast of 5 minutes. If its something more like Corsair's Triple Shot, that is still a recast of 5 minutes. That's 5 minutes you wouldn't have to worry about it eating another Wind Maneuver. Also, if you're macroing in Buffoon's collar and/or using/macroing Cirque Farsetto+, why should it matter if you have to use a 2nd Wind Maneuver to replace the one it ate?


Fire attachment: Wouldnt it be 1000000000% ^2 better if it was a flat regain, didnt consume maneuvers, and stacked with flame holder? We have tactical switch and burts, did we really need another way to feed our pet tp?
Let's think outside the box for a second on this one. Do you use any fire attachments on Mage frames? If I can cycle in a few fire maneuvers and Tactical Switch after the fact, that is more TP for me to do more damage. Life outside Abyssea and regain Atma. Think about it.

Additionally, this will probably have a few minutes timer. Again, likely 3 minutes if it is analogous to SAM's Meditate. Learn to work around the timers.


Ice attachment: Wouldnt it be better if it worked on both mages instead of just the blm? Since the blm always has 2x loud speakers and the whm rarely uses any ice attachments other then mana booster? Ice was just a poor choice considering its going to make your pet paralyze the mob instead of cure you.
Why wouldn't it work on WHM? Just because I have an Ice Maneuver up doesn't mean my Automaton uses Paralyze every chance it gets. Damage Gauge + Optical Fiber + Light Maneuver still forces her to Cure VI me and my party members at 80% health. The typical AI program runs -NA Spell > Cure > Enfeeble.

[Dfoley]

Even if its on a 5 minute timer (which is perfectly logical), its still a pain for barrage to consume maneuvers, and that has nothing to do with overload, it has everything to do with screwing with ws order, wasting our melee time with having to reapply maneuvers, general pup shenanigans. This would not be bad if maneuvers lasted 3-5 minutes. Again, this has nothing to do with overload, because as you said with +2 body overload is no longer an issue.

I have regain earring, and I am well aware of life outside abyssea, but the entire usefulness of the fire attachment depends solely on how much tp it generates and how often its reusable. If its not enough to allow for a ws after a 1.2x tactical switch I still think its a complete waste and would rather have regain that doesn't consume fire maneuvers and actually stacks with flame holder. As is, I have no room for it on my mage/ranger/ve frames and nothing bout the attachment strikes me as wanting to make space for it. The key here is if it consumes fir manuevers you wont ever use it with flame holder which automatically makes this attachment complete fail for dd frames. And if you need it that bad that you are considering droping a DD fire attachment for it, get burts and save yourself the attachment slot and gain a whole lot more.

[xbobx]

and here I thought the developers were actually starting to show promise, but they prove again they really have no clue about their own game. Not just on Pup, but the Ranger adjustment was pure fail too.

[Frapp]

Even if its on a 5 minute timer (which is perfectly logical), its still a pain for barrage to consume maneuvers...
So pretty much what you're trying to say is Automatons should have limitless Barrage and Regain while RNGs and SAMs have to wait for recast timers to be up?


...it has everything to do with screwing with ws order, wasting our melee time with having to reapply maneuvers, general pup shenanigans.
It takes 2 keystrokes for me to apply a maneuver. This is how the job is played. We have to apply maneuvers to control the Automaton. Whether or not it screws with the time between punches, I really don't know and could care less. If you're getting that ornery over a split second of time that you're not punching things, you need to find a new hobby to focus your love of math.


...but the entire usefulness of the fire attachment depends solely on how much tp it generates and how often its reusable.
I agree with you there to a point. But I don't understand why you are so zealously attacking something you will know nothing about until May 10th at the earliest. The best we can do until then is theorize.


If its not enough to allow for a ws after a 1.2x tactical switch I still think its a complete waste and would rather have regain that doesn't consume fire maneuvers and actually stacks with flame holder.
Again, you're asking for us to have capabilities beyond that of other jobs and game balance. Back to back weapon skills? That'd be nice. If I sub /SAM, I only get 60 TP back instead of the 100/120 if I was SAM main. This attachment is, as I said is a previous post, likely the analogue to Meditate.


As is, I have no room for it on my mage/ranger/ve frames and nothing bout the attachment strikes me as wanting to make space for it.
And nobody is forcing you to use it.


The key here is if it consumes fir manuevers you wont ever use it with flame holder which automatically makes this attachment complete fail for dd frames.
Again, as I've mentioned in a previous post, there will likely be a recast timer for it. If it decides to eat a fire maneuver before Flame Holder, then it'll be something to work around and with like we've all had to do with the casting AI. If it relents to Flame Holder at certain TP percentages, rock and roll.

This is the first time PUPs have had two attachments that consume the same maneuver, and we're getting 2 (Flame Holder/TP & Replicator/Barrage). Only time will tell on how it works. Just calm down and enjoy the game.

[Tsumomo]

Since when did every attachment have to be usable at the same time to be useful.
All PUP's have very different play styles and use different setups.
I have plenty of attachments i haven't used in years, does that mean the attachment is useless NO.
All it means is it doesn't fit into how i use my automaton.
I am very excited to play with the new attachments and see how they fit or don't fit with how i play PUP.
I certainly wont be pissed off if they don't fit into how i play.

Part of what is fun about PUP is finding new ways to play it, there is no ONE way that is perfect for everyone.
You just need to deal with the fact that not all attachments will be perfect for how you play.
If you can fit it in then awesome if not then oh well.

And about the new WS, many people DID ask for new WS to be added to their automaton.
As long as the SS WS is comparable with Armor Piercer i am completely satisfied with the new WS.
I like the thought of actually using VE again.
And being able to use VE and get decent damage with it, using the exact same Atma to boost Master and Pet is a huge plus for me.

[Keyln]

and here I thought the developers were actually starting to show promise, but they prove again they really have no clue about their own game. Not just on Pup, but the Ranger adjustment was pure fail too.

I disagree that the PUP update is a fail. Why don't we wait till the update before we declare it fail.

[Lushipur]

obviously calling a fail was just a provokation

still i thinks SE doesnt read what the playerbase wants and go straight foor the road they think is best for us...

[Dfoley]

Since when did every attachment have to be usable at the same time to be useful.
It doesn't, as long as it has some use in some situations its fine... (see below)


All PUP's have very different play styles and use different setups.
Not true at all sorry, if your using a blm pet and arent using specific attachments (icemaker, loud speaker 1 and loud speaker 2) you aren't doing it right. If you dont have one of them fine, but there is really only 1 set of ice attachments you should be going for. Sure there is more variability with melee frames, but there are still certain attachments you will always want.


I have plenty of attachments i haven't used in years, does that mean the attachment is useless NO.
Yes, why yes it does. If you havent used it, by definition it is useless to you/your setup. Example being: reactive shield, scanner, tactical processor, volt gun. Sure they have 'uses' but honestly they wont be used 99.999999% of the time by anyone.



I certainly wont be pissed off if they don't fit into how i play.
i am not pissed by any means, just wishing they put more thought into these.



You just need to deal with the fact that not all attachments will be perfect for how you play.
And then there will be some that will be terrible no matter how / who uses them. Its one thing to be situational, its another to have no situation that would require it.


I like the thought of actually using VE again.
And being able to use VE and get decent damage with it, using the exact same Atma to boost Master and Pet is a huge plus for me.

This lets me know that:
1) You probably dont have burts
2) you definitely dont do much outside of abyssea

I use ve more then i use SS, and outside of abyssea i use ve+burts to solo pretty much everything I cant tank myself.

[xbobx]

What atma and attachments do you use with VE when using to tank? I have been using VV, RR and mounted champion. Should RR be switched out for GH? Or what about double regen, if it stats, so 35 hp a tick?

thanks

[Frapp]

Not true at all sorry, if your using a blm pet and arent using specific attachments (icemaker, loud speaker 1 and loud speaker 2) you aren't doing it right. If you dont have one of them fine, but there is really only 1 set of ice attachments you should be going for. Sure there is more variability with melee frames, but there are still certain attachments you will always want.

Blindly following one method is doing it wrong. Knowing what you're fighting, who you're fighting it with, and reading the ebb and flow of battle is how you truly command and work with the Automaton.

For example, there have been plenty of times where hate control was an issue, and using a fully powered Ice Maker'd nuke would have thrown the whole fight out of whack - such as taking aggro, bringing the monsters over to the mages where I parked the Automaton, and causing deaths. Using Mana Booster + Loudspeaker I & II allowed me to let the Automaton nuke away more often and safely under the hate threshold.

[Anza]

So pretty much what you're trying to say is Automatons should have limitless Barrage and Regain while RNGs and SAMs have to wait for recast timers to be up?

That's not what he said at all.

I think this consuming a maneuver nonsense is simply unnecessary. Why not just have a random chance of Barrage on a hidden recast timer if a wind maneuver is active, without having to consume a maneuver that's more useful for Turbo Charger/Scope? You know, just like lots of other PUP "ability" attachments that work perfectly fine and don't consume maneuvers - Flashbulb, Strobe, Shock Absorber, Hammermill, etc. It's not "limitless" to make the Barrage attachment have an invisible recast of, say, 3 or 5 minutes.

As for TP, why a big chunk of TP at once instead of a regain attachment that gives 1/2/3 tp per tick with 1/2/3 Fire maneuvers active (much like our Regen and Refresh from light/dark attachments)? It seems like they're making things overly complicated for no reason when there's a much more logical solution to reach the same end. Consuming a fire maneuver is just going to get you out of your desired maneuver setup and require scrambling to get maneuvers back up correctly and not gimp your other attachments.


It takes 2 keystrokes for me to apply a maneuver. This is how the job is played. We have to apply maneuvers to control the Automaton. Whether or not it screws with the time between punches, I really don't know and could care less. If you're getting that ornery over a split second of time that you're not punching things, you need to find a new hobby to focus your love of math.

It's not the difficulty of hitting a button, or even the lag that decreases overall damage. It's the 10 second recast on maneuvers, combined with 1min maneuver duration, combined with attachments that consume maneuvers constantly taking what you've already set up. You're losing big benefits to the other attachments that don't consume maneuvers (for instance, losing fire maneuvers that pump up Tension Springs). PLUS it's even harder now to juggle the correct balance of maneuvers to ensure the correct WS, given the flawed trigger maneuver system for determining WS.


Blindly following one method is doing it wrong. Knowing what you're fighting, who you're fighting it with, and reading the ebb and flow of battle is how you truly command and work with the Automaton.

For example, there have been plenty of times where hate control was an issue, and using a fully powered Ice Maker'd nuke would have thrown the whole fight out of whack - such as taking aggro, bringing the monsters over to the mages where I parked the Automaton, and causing deaths. Using Mana Booster + Loudspeaker I & II allowed me to let the Automaton nuke away more often and safely under the hate threshold.

No, Dustin is doing it right. Any nuking setup that doesn't use ice attachments of either (a) Ice Maker/Loudspeaker II/Loudspeaker I, or (b) Ice Maker/Loudspeaker II/Tranquilizer is, quite simply, doing it wrong. The only decision is whether Tranquilizer would be helpful to reduce resists - something that was a lot more common back in 75cap days than it is in today's 90cap/Abyssea world (but the consideration may make a return in future content).

Hate control should NEVER be an issue with Spiritreaver. Use deactivate, then activate/DEA to get your puppet back. Voila, you have shed all hate.

I personally like to use Stealth Screen in my SR setup and get a couple nukes out of each Activate, then I deactivate to zero out my automaton's enmity.

Also, we have Ventiloquy if you do get overzealous and the puppet pulls hate. Vent, and tank the mob till your tank can get it back.

One last point - if you're still having these kinds of issues, why are you parking your automaton by the mages anyway? Deploy it in its own safe space away from squishy mages.


What I would like to know is why everyone is saying Power Cooler is useless. If it costs 1 Ice Capacity, then why not install it in the one remaining Ice Slot on Spiritreaver when everything else costs 2+? Also, the only Ice Attachment I use on Soulsoother is the Mana Booster because all the other Ice Attachments are useless on WHM bot. If my Automaton can use less MP when she decides to drop a 300HP Cure VI on somebody, sign me up. Less MP usage + Reduced time between casts? How is that a bad thing?

People are saying Power Cooler is useless because MP is just not an issue. Deactivate, re-activate, and you're set. There's no point in not using Deactivate these days now that we have DEA every 60 seconds, so a mistake doesn't mean a ton of downtime waiting on a 20min JA timer.

I agree with you to an extent that if it only costs 1 ice, I might as well use it. I'm not going so far as to call it "useless", just that it's a pretty minor benefit. If nothing else, it might (a) save some MP if I'm being lazy and not monitoring Soulsoother's MP, or (b) keep the puppet MP above the Aspir threshold on Spiritreaver, allowing for another nuke before unwanted Aspir AI kicks in.

Also, Mana Booster is not the only useful ice attachment on Soulsoother. Tranquilizer helps quite a bit in sticking enfeebles. But yeah, the point remains that you will have free ice capacity so I guess it doesn't hurt.

The one thing that might make Power Cooler a little more helpful is if it doesn't require an ice maneuver to have some effect. These descriptions seem intended to be more helpful about what the attachment actually does than past S-E attachment language. So it's possible that "Reduces MP cost in proportion to the number of Ice Maneuvers in effect" means that it has a different %age reduction for 0/1/2/3 maneuvers, and not only 1/2/3 active ice maneuvers. Would make it a little more helpful for Soulsoother since it would provide some minor benefit in a slot you're probably not getting much out of as-is now, even if you DON'T use an ice maneuver (which some people don't like since it triggers enfeebles that you may not want in a healing situation).

[Dfoley]

As always, well put Anza


For example, there have been plenty of times where hate control was an issue, and using a fully powered Ice Maker'd nuke would have thrown the whole fight out of whack - such as taking aggro, bringing the monsters over to the mages where I parked the Automaton, and causing deaths. Using Mana Booster + Loudspeaker I & II allowed me to let the Automaton nuke away more often and safely under the hate threshold

Few issues with this;
1) if you have your pet 'parked', that generally means its sitting there casting, which automatically implys that the only triple ice would be the initial deploy because after that you would never get more then 2 ice back up
2) If its parked as apposed to DAD after every 2 nukes, youll never see more then 2 t5 nukes before aspir starts unless the mob cant be aspired, so that mana booster wont be doing too much help. Other then speeding up the second nuke by 2-4 seconds.

I assume you are refering to just heros bosses as well since visions/scars bosses have so much less hp that hate/dmg shouldnt be an issue, not to mention in an exp alliance, 1 t5 nuke should about one shot any exp mob.

[Xilk]

Recap:

Pups: We want the AI fixed. We want new attachments!, we want new automaton WS's!
SE: here you go: New attachments and new Ws's!
1/2 pups: THIS SUX!! SE NEVER GONNA FIX THE AI!! THIS ISN'T WANT WE WANTED!!

There are some meaningful looks at the changes also, but WAY too much whining imo.

I'm not much of a pup though, only level 38, but decently geared for all that. I do like the job. probably 3rd on my list.

[Lushipur]

Recap:

Pups: We want the AI fixed. We want new attachments!, we want new automaton WS's!
SE: here you go: New attachments and new Ws's!
1/2 pups: THIS SUX!! SE NEVER GONNA FIX THE AI!! THIS ISN'T WANT WE WANTED!!

There are some meaningful looks at the changes also, but WAY too much whining imo.

I'm not much of a pup though, only level 38, but decently geared for all that. I do like the job. probably 3rd on my list.

mhhh just no lol

Pups: we want AI fixed. We want new usefull attachment! we want new automaton ws that doesnt have crappy trigger!
SE: here you go: new situational attachment and new ws with who know which trigger.

not a word about ai fix
not a word about changing how to trigger a ws

sure we have to wait to see what man. trigger the ws, depending on that they could be total win or just like its now (with better ws)

things is, WE know what we wants and how to make pup a better job. SE just doesnt.
We had to wait how many years for somethings like DEA? while the pup community asked for something similar since the beginnings.

i play pup since day 1 and you cant really understand (pup 38 right?) what it was like in the old days with a C skill and a paper pup on a 20min timer lol

[Ahtos]

mhhh just no lol

Pups: we want AI fixed. We want new usefull attachment! we want new automaton ws that doesnt have crappy trigger!
SE: here you go: new situational attachment and new ws with who know which trigger.

not a word about ai fix
not a word about changing how to trigger a ws

sure we have to wait to see what man. trigger the ws, depending on that they could be total win or just like its now (with better ws)

things is, WE know what we wants and how to make pup a better job. SE just doesnt.
We had to wait how many years for somethings like DEA? while the pup community asked for something similar since the beginnings.

i play pup since day 1 and you cant really understand (pup 38 right?) what it was like in the old days with a C skill and a paper pup on a 20min timer lol
You isn´t the whole pup player base. Cuz you don´t like it dosn´t mean every one don´t like the update(s). Ppl always QQ dosn´t matter what we get. The puppet AI is a little weird sometimes, makes this pup unplayable ? No. Maybe SE fix this in the future, maybe never, personally i don´t care cuz i know how to play pup with this issue.
If you don´t like it don´t play pup just simple and don´t blame SE cuz you never get what you want.
Pups want new ws, now we got the ws, ppl QQ again cuz they want other ws, if they get those ws they will QQ again.
Pups want new attachments, we got a few but wtf SE i don´t want this attachments, i want attachments that makes my puppet invincibel and every attack does 9999 dmg. QQ
Maybe its time to nerv pup a bit so ppl know what they had b4. God i know why i hate ppl.

[xbobx]

Ahtons, when SE admits the AI is a bug, and doesnt fix it for 4 years, Pups have ever right to be pissed when they ignore the issue. I bet many pups would be content if all we got was AI fix in this patch.

[Dfoley]

You isn´t the whole pup player base. Cuz you don´t like it dosn´t mean every one don´t like the update(s). Ppl always QQ dosn´t matter what we get. The puppet AI is a little weird sometimes, makes this pup unplayable ? No. Maybe SE fix this in the future, maybe never, personally i don´t care cuz i know how to play pup with this issue.If you don´t like it don´t play pup just simple and don´t blame SE cuz you never get what you want.
Pups want new ws, now we got the ws, ppl QQ again cuz they want other ws, if they get those ws they will QQ again.
Pups want new attachments, we got a few but wtf SE i don´t want this attachments, i want attachments that makes my puppet invincibel and every attack does 9999 dmg. QQ
Maybe its time to nerv pup a bit so ppl know what they had b4. God i know why i hate ppl.

What terrible advice from an obvious troll.

The AI blows and needs to be fixed, you shouldnt have to work with an issue like this. Its not terrible no, but it could be 1000% better (see the npc fellows).

[Ahtos]

I never said the AI is ok. Sure it need to be fixed but what should i do instead ? Sitting in a corner and QQ cuz SE don´t wanna fix it this or next time ? My post wasn´t about the AI, it was generally about those never-happy-ppl, doesn´t matter what they get.
SMN wanted new avatars, how many years did this take till they got 2 new avatars ? Just read what SE said in the past what they wanna do and it almost never happend yet (well maybe its a little faster now since they listen more to the players after the "FFXIV disaster").
Other issues and updates got a higher priority than others. FFXI is a 9 years old game and SE don´t put every single man and woman into this game just to fix and update FFXI. It doesn´t matter if they know the issues or not if they don´t have the resources to fix everything @ the same time.

[Bhujerba]

mhhh just no lol

Pups: we want AI fixed. We want new usefull attachment! we want new automaton ws that doesnt have crappy trigger!
SE: here you go: new situational attachment and new ws with who know which trigger.

not a word about ai fix
not a word about changing how to trigger a ws

sure we have to wait to see what man. trigger the ws, depending on that they could be total win or just like its now (with better ws)

things is, WE know what we wants and how to make pup a better job. SE just doesnt.
We had to wait how many years for somethings like DEA? while the pup community asked for something similar since the beginnings.

i play pup since day 1 and you cant really understand (pup 38 right?) what it was like in the old days with a C skill and a paper pup on a 20min timer lol
I agree.
since we dont know how good/bad these new toys are, we better point out possible flaws now before they released them, if they made them actually good ( good = warranting using them over what we already have, not just any good or side-grades) then no problem here, but if they made them bad and they see the potential weakness from our complains they may have time to change them a little or buffed them before release, otherwise you have to wait good few months if not years for a fix.

also if this is their answer to fix one of the AI issues by implementing "less-MP-usage-before-Aspir-kicks-in-attachment" then this is not good, fixing AI issues with new attachments is bad idea, what next "100% Cure-over-na-attachment" !?!

in the end, for me I really don't expect anything from this company (never have actually lol), I just take it as they come...( Deus Ex Automata was nice surprise, in fact its even better than what we suggested by lowering activate timer to 10 mins) plus someone mentioned that AI fixes that was done before weren't mentioned in version update, so there is still hope for "you" .

[Dohati]

i wasn't thrilled with any of the new attachments, but i thought we were fine on attachments anyway. i might use the ice one for whm because i have a bunch of extra ice slots left and i have many attachments for whm i can do without. the ice attachment hopefully will help balance out how badly whm overcures. (with a light/ice/dark maneuver setup of course) wouldnt hurt to have an ice up since it could also enhance mana booster and tranquilizer for enfeebles. i'm hoping the new weaponskills dont screw us up though. if they take priority and do crappy dmg, thats going to be a pain. hopefully they'll be good and use a maneuver we'd use for the respective puppets anyway. ...although... SE rly does need to give us a way to adjust automatons' weaponskill priorities and which WS is tied to which maneuver. light maneuver triggering cannibal blade (or maybe earth) would be so hawt.

[Gotterdammerung]

Unless SE decides it's necessary to allow more attachment slots on the frames or increase the number of elements each frame may allocate---we'll have to make some sacrifices. I personally have no problem with that. If someone can explain why you feel it's necessary to have everything you had before in addition to what has been added... that doesn't make sense to me.

Even now you must make sacrifices to equip our automatons'; not enough ice maneuvers, ok... remove something and add something else to compensate for the loss. The addition of these new attachments is really no different than anything else we already have to do... we make sacrifices in order to equip our automatons...

What this really boils down to is... Player A has gotten "use" to using his/her automaton a specific way... albeit, mage frame, ranger frame or other... Player A gets new attachments to play with from SE... Player A is "SHOCKED" that the new attachments means, he/she can't attach his/her favorite well used attachments... so Player A is confused as to how Player A can incorporate the new attachments AND keep his/her favorite well used attachments in play... OH BUT SHOCK... Player A can't keep all of the attachments Player A is use to keeping because Player A's automaton doesn't have enough slots... so, Player A grumbles and spits fire in frustration that SE delivers such "Trash"... Player A is upset because Player A doesn't want to go back to the basics of assembling his/her automaton again... Player A considers it too much work...

Adjusting is never easy...get over it. As you learned many, many levels ago to work with what we're given and MAKE IT WORK... you'll do the same with this new combination... that's all it is, additional attachments to be "COMBINED" with our automaton to create a new way to play. Experiment and have fun doing it.... don't knock it until it's implemented... try to stop passing such negative judgment prior to implementation.

im confused. why did u feel the need to delineate "player A" if there is no player B,C,D, ect in your example O.,o?

Anyway, on topic. I don't think people are having problems adjusting. It seems to me they are just examining the true worth of the new options and finding them mostly lacking.

[Lushipur]

oh, reading xiozen reply i remember now to whine because SE is not talking about storing more than 1 frame/attach combination ;_;

[Dfoley]

im confused. why did u feel the need to delineate "player A" if there is no player B,C,D, ect in your example O.,o?

Anyway, on topic. I don't think people are having problems adjusting. It seems to me they are just examining the true worth of the new options and finding them mostly lacking.

PLayer B didnt know how to play his job
Player C didnt have the optimal attachmetns player A had so the new attachments are actually upgrades
Player D Prefered to solo outside of abyssea and never knew what he was missing.

Think that covers most of xiozens bad example...

[Bhujerba]

im confused. why did u feel the need to delineate "player A" if there is no player B,C,D, ect in your example O.,o?

LOL I just read his post xD

Player C didnt have the optimal attachmetns player A had so the new attachments are actually upgradesor we can make All players from A to Z happy by introducing new Attachments that even OUTSHINE what we have , how about that for an upgrade? (to xio and whoever still think of side-grades is teh shit!!1!)

Even now you must make sacrifices to equip our automatonsSacrifices... why is it perfectly fine for a Monk or Warrior or the rest of the overpowered jobs that hardly sacrifice ANYTHING but when it comes to pup or pet job in general, oh we HAVE TO SACRIFICE GUYS! we cant have our cake and eat it like the rest of the jobs!

this is a call to the rest of PUP community and beyond..., GET RID OF THE SACRIFICING MENTALITY, so we can suggest things better, is it really fair for the other jobs to be extremely powerful and useful without them sacrificing anything to reach that, but its ok (and a MUST) for us to be lower in power and usefulness with lots of sacrifices? THE HELL WITH THAT :mad: