The STF does nothing and I'm going to post every report I file as proof.

[Uriah]

#501
https://i.ibb.co/8g3Q67v/0416.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/3rW2WNN/0417.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/mvpLZcS/0418.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/fpNNknx/0419.png

[Uriah]

Something is off. They changed the STF page today. The text is different the border has been reduced and the confirm details highlight has been altered. I wonder why.
https://i.ibb.co/JFX65Fx/0420.png

[Dragoy]

Something is off. They changed the STF page today. The text is different the border has been reduced and the confirm details highlight has been altered. I wonder why.

I think it looks as usual now.

It did seem to re-load all the assets for me, instead of using ones from the browser cache. It was pretty slow, and for a while the elements looked like that (can still make it happen when reloading using ctrl+f5 or whatever other browsers have for that).

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/NnjNtfr/0421.png

[Catmato]

Something is off. They changed the STF page today. The text is different the border has been reduced and the confirm details highlight has been altered. I wonder why.


Probably means they're about to delete the STF page. Their jobs are done, all the cheaters are gone.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/7GDMSby/0422.png

[Catmato]

[redacted]

You forgot to blur the character name.

[Uriah]

#511
I did indeed, tired... I'll have to fix that so they don't have an excuse to delete the thread

Now it's fixed

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/4PvBN4S/0423.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/ScjDH6q/0424.png

[Sp1cyryan]

#511
I did indeed, tired... I'll have to fix that so they don't have an excuse to delete the thread

Now it's fixed

They are more likely to delete the thread than stop the bots.

Your campaign would be more effective if it targeted their underlying support structure instead. The SSG bot is just to selling gil to the players who buy CP/EP, wins, gear, etc from those bots and mercs. Just make a list outing anyone buying from
those bots and mercs.

Will this solve the world's problems? No, but it will create some pressure and remove the comfort from the people engaging in this black market that further increases botting and RMTing. If you are that serious about doing something, then do something else like that as well.

You obviously can't do that here or on FFXIAH, but you can on the old dusty BG forums. Which wouldn't be so dusty if you did.

[Uriah]

Obviously they sell gil, obviously people buy gil, I know this, you know this, everyone knows this.

While we all know for a fact it is happening, it can't be proven by a player. The entire point is the STF (and GM staff) KNOW, and don't care. The report page is fake. The ingame report system has been abandoned. And they are explicitly ignoring all problems to make as much money as possible before the subs wake up.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/6wNcCFY/0425.png

[Alhanelem]

Something is off. They changed the STF page today. The text is different the border has been reduced and the confirm details highlight has been altered. I wonder why.
https://i.ibb.co/JFX65Fx/0420.png
This was definitely just your browser failing to load the image

[Tarmarkvar]

What exactly is the significance of the Abyss Sahagin at I-10 Sea Serpent Grotto?

[Uriah]

It drops Bard scrolls that are expensive. The person controlling the bot is monopolizing the sale of those scrolls (with alternate accounts)

There are other bots that do this with other bard scrolls. There is one in QSC that has been there for at least 5 years selling Prelude from the Antican NM

[Sp1cyryan]

Obviously they sell gil, obviously people buy gil, I know this, you know this, everyone knows this.

While we all know for a fact it is happening, it can't be proven by a player. The entire point is the STF (and GM staff) KNOW, and don't care. The report page is fake. The ingame report system has been abandoned. And they are explicitly ignoring all problems to make as much money as possible before the subs wake up.

You can't talk about not being able to prove a player is doing X. Although that's not really true since if they are AFK receiving CP/ML on apex while bots kill mobs, then they paid. Only to say SE is intentionally doing it to make as much money as possible. Since there's not anymore proof for that than comparatively what you just said can't be proven against players.

I stand by that if you really care about this issue then you would also highlight certain players and bots. It looks as though you really only care about trying to attack SE though instead of helping the community.

[Uriah]

#521
Doing the only thing I can spicy.

I could highlight the thousand other bots, and do it on AH, and BG, and twitter, and IG, and youtube, and twitch, and tag #Square a thousand times a day, but that's more than a full days work and completely unreasonable for one person to do.

Reporting the same bot every single day for a year is already a ridiculous task. Imagine scaling it 1000 fold.

[Sp1cyryan]

#521
Doing the only thing I can spicy.

I could highlight the thousand other bots, and do it on AH, and BG, and twitter, and IG, and youtube, and twitch, and tag #Square a thousand times a day, but that's more than a full days work and completely unreasonable for one person to do.

Reporting the same bot every single day for a year is already a ridiculous task. Imagine scaling it 1000 fold.

Well you couldn't on AH as it's not allowed, and likely no one would check YouTube or IG. I'm just suggesting informing the community on the players. Reporting the same bot has proven ineffective and after hundreds of the same exact report the point has been made. Further repeating this would neither change this outcome, as demonstrated, nor further make the point clearer.

So, while I am not suggesting you Zip Recruiter your way into a career in this. What I am saying is that if you truly care like you are leading us to believe. Then to change tactics to try and be effective. You can't stop the bots, but you can undermine the players supporting them by informing the community on them.

Newer or returning players would be less likely to buy from these bots and RMT if they knew that the community find out and have negative opinions on their actions. There could be some form social of repercussions like there once used to be.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/hmF4FfC/0426.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/jVScRr1/0427.png

[Sp1cyryan]

Guess that is the end of that discussion then. Can't say I didn't try.

[Uriah]

There's nothing to discuss. As long as gil is cheaper to buy per hour than earn, that's absolutely never going to change.

It is impossible to make (consistent) 10m per hour, any hour, any time. But any person can always earn enough to buy that anywhere, anytime. It's simple logic.

Targeting that side of the coin is a fools errand.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/q9vr57h/0428.png

[Tarmarkvar]

There's nothing to discuss. As long as gil is cheaper to buy per hour than earn, that's absolutely never going to change.

It is impossible to make (consistent) 10m per hour, any hour, any time. But any person can always earn enough to buy that anywhere, anytime. It's simple logic.

Targeting that side of the coin is a fools errand.

Do you even enjoy playing this game? At all? Maybe you need to retire instead of spamming a message board with your little crusade.

[Sp1cyryan]

Do you even enjoy playing this game? At all? Maybe you need to retire instead of spamming a message board with your little crusade.

This demonstrates the the irony of their statement.

There is no logic in calling another approach, frankly any other approach at this point, a fools errand. While constantly spamming here with the same report on the same bot hundreds of times. All to admit it doesn't matter.

[Tarmarkvar]

This demonstrates the the irony of their statement.

There is no logic in calling another approach, frankly any other approach at this point, a fools errand. While constantly spamming here with the same report on the same bot hundreds of times. All to admit it doesn't matter.

I hold to a philosophy that, while it's all right to engage with the people in charge to make things better, you shouldn't invest your happiness in their actions. Because leaving your happiness dependent upon factors you cannot control is a recipe for disaster. I didn't like that Asura was utterly overrun with bots either, so I moved over to Bahamut.

I mean, this is a video game. A leisure activity. It's supposed to bring you joy.

[Tarmarkvar]

You've been at it this for at least 2 weeks ...and I'm very suprised SE hasn't banned you for basically spamming the forums. Also, Director Matsui said last year not to submit multiple reports...but you clearly keep doing that.

This is a bit of a necropost, but I'm willing to bet Yvone ended up on some kind of blacklist and her reports actually ARE being ignored by now even if they weren't in the beginning.

How exactly do they know these are bots and not multiple people working in shifts? This is, for example, how the local Amazon warehouse keeps operations running 24/7 even though they are staffed by humans.

[Uriah]

Account sharing is also banable. So whether it's a bot or a shared account, the required action is the same.

(Spoiler, I can prove it's a bot, I just can't post proof that it's a bot cause they will ban me. You can drag it away, no human would keep following the NM)

[Tarmarkvar]

Account sharing is also banable. So whether it's a bot or a shared account, the required action is the same.

(Spoiler, I can prove it's a bot, I just can't post proof that it's a bot cause they will ban me. You can drag it away, no human would keep following the NM)

You know, it's likely that they have simply logged you as a problem customer for misusing their reporting system, and completely stopped accepting your reports.

[Uriah]

If so, then it proves the point. They ignore reports. It's also not a misuse, reporting a bot is specifically the intended use lol

Other people have reported them, and reporting is anonymous so they can't single my reports out.

[Tarmarkvar]

If so, then it proves the point. They ignore reports. It's also not a misuse, reporting a bot is specifically the intended use

Actually, it proves that they ignore YOUR REPORTS because you are a nuisance. You are misusing it by filing dozens of reports about the same issue.

[Uriah]

I encourage you to prove me wrong, report a bot, and start counting the days until they're banned.

[Tarmarkvar]

I encourage you to prove me wrong, report a bot, and start counting the days until they're banned.

Why would I do that? I'm not the one who deliberately chooses to play on a server overrun with them, then devote my life to complaining about them. I actually went and did something about the problem.

[Uriah]

Riiiiiiiiiiight

As I thought, bye then

[Sp1cyryan]

If so, then it proves the point. They ignore reports. It's also not a misuse, reporting a bot is specifically the intended use lol

This specifically would be a misuse. For your focus on how the rules apply to others. You seem to ignore the impropriety of your actions here.

Realistically, what are you expecting to accomplish? How long do you intend to repeat this same action every post?

[Tarmarkvar]

I encourage you to prove me wrong, report a bot, and start counting the days until they're banned.

Back on page 2 of this thread, you complained about a big alliance full of level 11 galka.

I had a spare content ID, so I made a mule character on Asura, in Bastok. I searched, and didn't see any of them there.

So I think what happened is that they are not banning somebody YOU pronounced guilty. They aren't serving you personally. Like I said before, I think they just blocked your submissions for abusing the process.

[Uriah]

#541

This specifically would be a misuse. For your focus on how the rules apply to others. You seem to ignore the impropriety of your actions here.

Realistically, what are you expecting to accomplish? How long do you intend to repeat this same action every post?


Every single day. I'm going to find a bot, and report it to the STF. I'm going to screencap it and post it here.

I don't expect to accomplish anything

Every. Single. Day. f.o.r.e.v.e.r.

Or, until they just come out and admit it, I'll never post again if they just admit they ignore reports because it would hurt the subscriber count.

Matsui's account to admit profit is more important than rules. (we know it is, just admit it)

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/8dQDTLN/0429.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/MV0t4t0/0430.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/4YqvQq2/0501.png

[Sp1cyryan]

#541




Every. Single. Day. f.o.r.e.v.e.r.

Or, until they just come out and admit it, I'll never post again if they just admit they ignore reports because it would hurt the subscriber count.

Matsui's account to admit profit is more important than rules. (we know it is, just admit it)

Anytime people are confronted with circumstances against their preferences they claim it "hurts" or "would hurt" the subscriber count. It is without any real basis beyond speculation and to suit oneself. We don't even have access to the numbers. Frankly, any assertion without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

There is nothing being proven here. It just would be nice to have reason prevail.

[Tarmarkvar]

#541




Every. Single. Day. f.o.r.e.v.e.r.

Or, until they just come out and admit it, I'll never post again if they just admit they ignore reports because it would hurt the subscriber count.

Matsui's account to admit profit is more important than rules. (we know it is, just admit it)

So I just want to get this straight.

Because you have a beef with Matsui, and with the customer service employees on the special task force, you are annoying a bunch of innocent, uninvolved third parties? Sounds like a plan. You know, I am bothered by the performance of Bradley Scott Schneider, my representative (of the Illinois 10th district) in the United States House of Representatives. Therefore, I am going to start hassling people on the Facebook page of Salud Carbajal, who represents California's 24th district.

You do understand that none of the people you are trying to send a message to are even aware this exists?

Also, you have proven nothing, except that the special task force did not ban the one person you have adopted a personal crusade against.

[Alhanelem]

#541




Every. Single. Day. f.o.r.e.v.e.r.

Or, until they just come out and admit it, I'll never post again if they just admit they ignore reports because it would hurt the subscriber count.

Matsui's account to admit profit is more important than rules. (we know it is, just admit it)
I mean this in no offensive way, but have you been clinically diagnosed as obsessive-compulsive?

[Uriah]

I just have the ability to actually follow through on things I say I'll do.

[Uriah]

Wow, Abyss Sahagin bot AND the Antican bot are both offline at 22:57 EDT I guess (one of) the Reisenjima bots get the report tonight.

https://i.ibb.co/Bc318Kt/0502.png

[Catmato]

you are annoying a bunch of innocent, uninvolved third parties?

If not the STF, who is being annoyed by his reports and this thread existing?

[Alhanelem]

I just have the ability to actually follow through on things I say I'll do.
That's neither a confirmation or a denial :p

[Uriah]

#552
https://i.ibb.co/0Msp1rF/0503.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/yRb24JV/0503a.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/tZ7f0Lf/0504.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/zrW87cM/0505.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/CntnMTF/0506.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/VNtpFRQ/0507.png

[Sfchakan]

Because you have a beef with Matsui, and with the customer service employees on the special task force

I'm offended you are insinuating the STFU is nothing more than the automated banhammer lottery for characters that were flagged for POS/fleehacking and nothing else. The average 6 million gil each banned character has is a joke.

There is no real STFU anymore. It's just a script ran once a week. That's the major problem. SE reinvests almost none of XI's revenue back into the game beyond the developer salaries. We have a joke of a community team that isn't engaged with the community and only checks in once a month at best.

XIV GM service probably has a laminated one-sheet of instructions for XI at this point. You're "lucky" if someone spamming obscenities gets banned during the same day part that it's reported.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/3Nh1Nfz/0508.png

[Sp1cyryan]

I'm offended you are insinuating the STFU is nothing more than the automated banhammer lottery for characters that were flagged for POS/fleehacking and nothing else. The average 6 million gil each banned character has is a joke.

There is no real STFU anymore. It's just a script ran once a week. That's the major problem. SE reinvests almost none of XI's revenue back into the game beyond the developer salaries. We have a joke of a community team that isn't engaged with the community and only checks in once a month at best.

XIV GM service probably has a laminated one-sheet of instructions for XI at this point. You're "lucky" if someone spamming obscenities gets banned during the same day part that it's reported.

They aren't interested in anything other than their own world. The mods here shouldn't let this problematic behavior continue for page after page.

[Uriah]

#561
https://i.ibb.co/4p0sdnj/0509.png

[Uriah]

They aren't interested in anything other than their own world. The mods here shouldn't let this problematic behavior continue for page after page. (everyone in the company) do nothing, as per the title

Fixed for you

The mods here only remove swears and feefee hurties. Can't even be bothered to answer player concerns or questions 99% of the time.
The community reps only represent their paychecks.
The special task force only bothers to run an automated system to ban pos hacks. (extremely rarely!)
The GMs literally don't even answer calls anymore. (i'm currently waiting for a response, sent 3 hours ago)
The translation team is nonexistant. When they do bother to show up, they get half the text wrong.

[Sp1cyryan]

Fixed for you

The mods here only remove swears and feefee hurties. Can't even be bothered to answer player concerns or questions 99% of the time.
The community reps only represent their paychecks.
The special task force only bothers to run an automated system to ban pos hacks. (extremely rarely!)
The GMs literally don't even answer calls anymore. (i'm currently waiting for a response, sent 3 hours ago)
The translation team is nonexistant. When they do bother to show up, they get half the text wrong.

Do you not see how this context applies back to you and what you are doing?

[Uriah]

The only context is; point being proven. If it's not hurting money or making money, it's entirely ignored.

[Alhanelem]

The mods here only remove swears and feefee hurties. Can't even be bothered to answer player concerns or questions 99% of the time. A moderator's job is to moderate, not to answer concerns or questions, because they don't have those answers. They're just mods.

I've moderated more than one game's official forums in my day, and while I probably posted more than most helping other people out as a player of said games, I was generally not privy to any knowledge that ordinary players couldn't have. And that's generally the case of any mods on any official forums.



The GMs literally don't even answer calls anymore. (i'm currently waiting for a response, sent 3 hours ago)The same GM staff handles both FFXI and FFXIV, and I can promise you it takes just as long in most cases over there, but they do get answered. in FFXI in particular though, if you aren't logged in when they attempt to reach you, all you'll get is the generic messaage given to say "we recieved your call, and thanks for giving us the information needed " or something like that.

For the record, you can reach some of the community team on twitter. My take on my communication with them is while they do help out with some behind the scenes stuff (correcting website errors, making the community site news posts, that sort of thing), they don't seem to be well empowered by SE to address the community, only being able to do so when they have something official to post, or in some cases, customer service issues like the recent posts about the twitter screenshot event. It's not that they don't want to do more, it's that they aren't granted the ability to do so by SE. And again, I can speak here as someone who has helped out with more than one community (though not specifically in a management role), that generally the people hired to do this are players (with a relevant work background) that are interested in and care about the game they are working on/for. Their hands are generally tied by the company they're working for, and would probably engage more if they had the authority to do so.

I for one was less afraid to make posts but was told in some cases to limit what I said ab out various issues because even though i was speaking my own mind, people would take anything I said as official news. Because of this you simply can not say or post anything that isn't 100% certain and supplied by the developers/company.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/PMjNrq3/0510.png

[Sp1cyryan]

The only context is; point being proven. If it's not hurting money or making money, it's entirely ignored.

Being proven? So nothing is enough then. 10, 20, 400, 4 million posts on the same exact person.

[Tarmarkvar]

Being proven? So nothing is enough then. 10, 20, 400, 4 million posts on the same exact person.

You gotta stop thinking of Uriah as a person to reason with. Uriah is more like a child throwing an endless tantrum.

[Alhanelem]

Some people would use dedication to try to solve world hunger, or climate change, or devise a life-changing invention. Instead we're trying to get a single video game cheater punished.

[Safie]

Would it be possible for players to register for their server to be able to issue temp bans to others on the server for a speedy review from SE staff? I see far to many bots or people AFK exping I wonder what effect outside of my direct feelings they play on my server. Honestly far to many people bot and cheat and personally seeing them be it real players doing this or just bots always is killing me I've not played in a few months I am not looking to play catch up with others but seeing cheaters and bots first hand is disheartening for this game when it's biggest sense of accomplishment was earning that progress and reward no question earned vs what now? bot did it?

[Alhanelem]

granting any power to players themselves to police behavior would be gloriously open to massive abuse. Even if SE were quick to reverse unjust actions made under such a system, it means you're guilty until proven innorcent and you can be 100% guaranteed there will be people taking advantage of it to harass others playing legitimately.

[Uriah]

#572
https://i.ibb.co/tZktpvQ/0511.png

[Sp1cyryan]

Would it be possible for players to register for their server to be able to issue temp bans to others on the server for a speedy review from SE staff? I see far to many bots or people AFK exping I wonder what effect outside of my direct feelings they play on my server. Honestly far to many people bot and cheat and personally seeing them be it real players doing this or just bots always is killing me I've not played in a few months I am not looking to play catch up with others but seeing cheaters and bots first hand is disheartening for this game when it's biggest sense of accomplishment was earning that progress and reward no question earned vs what now? bot did it?

Just watch mutes in the assist channel to see how this would go.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/chbFLGg/0512.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/gvMcbV8/0513.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/zbWxctx/0514.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/WDNcx6S/0515.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/8D6bDNP/0516.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/cTN6LWM/0517.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/WxZq6jj/0518.png

[Uriah]

#581
https://i.ibb.co/cTzrxgx/0519.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/P6Fk2Xs/0520.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/g4BLpmr/0521.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/zX493Qz/0522.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/S3Whgdt/0523.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/PGhY1Vr/0524.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/yYYZt5V/0525.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/HNvscBZ/0526.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/5sCFd86/0527.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/HdqCtF0/0528.png

[Uriah]

#591
https://i.ibb.co/1J4VsS2/0529.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/WzbvJt1/0530.png

[Uriah]

Huh, someone managed to kill the Abyss Sahagin bot today. So they're stuck in norg trying to target mobs. Kinda funny. Wonder when that happened and how long till they notice.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/vQpxFSk/0531.png

[Alhanelem]

https://i.ibb.co/vQpxFSk/0531.png

Huh, someone managed to kill the Abyss Sahagin bot today. So they're stuck in norg trying to target mobs. Kinda funny. Wonder when that happened and how long till they notice. Did it really only take three minutes for them to get back there and kill another abyss sahagin? (Going on the timestamps of your posts)

[Uriah]

....... Different bot homie. Look at the post.

With Sahagin bot killed for the day, reisenjima bot was the report. (I should have picked Antican bot, but it obviously doesn't matter)

Sahagin bot is still trying to locate Abyss Sahagins in Norg, lul

Edit; Sahagin bot is STILL trying to locate Abyss Sahagins in Norg. 16 hours they've not realized they were killed.

[Sp1cyryan]

This thread should be locked.

[Safie]

Wanted to share a video with you I love on youtube.
Video name is FFXI - Revisited : Playing with the Bots!!
channel name Star Onion
looks fun to gather obvious bots and train them away if possible

Keep sharing your reports I try to give each one a like! wish we could ban all the bots and people who use programs to auto exp also. All this botting is why I plan for an extended break here soon, I wanna be a GM and purge the servers of this virus!

[Uriah]

This thread should be locked.

They've tried 6 or 7 times. I'll just make a new one. Easier to just ignore it, like they ignore the bots.

[Alhanelem]

This thread should be locked.

I more or less agree, but I share in questioning why nothing has been addressed here.

[Uriah]

#601
https://i.ibb.co/Bg12PCy/0601.png

[Sp1cyryan]

They've tried 6 or 7 times. I'll just make a new one. Easier to just ignore it, like they ignore the bots.

Then they can easily keep banning you, lol. At this point you should be simply on the grounds of ban evasion.

No other XI board would allow this.

[Uriah]

I guess too bad eh?

[Sp1cyryan]

I guess too bad eh?

Yes, I would say that if the moderators here can't even address community violations. Then your reporting to the STF is also not going to be addressed. So there is no reason for this thread.

If I can be banned from the boards for:

Posting aimed to create a negative impact on the community or its members.
Then this should also apply to you with this thread. The moderators should take responsibility.

[Alhanelem]

Other people have still gotten in trouble around here, it's pretty safe to say they just dont think s/he's worth the trouble of dealing with. i.e. just give him/her their one thread in this dark corner and leave it at that.

[Sp1cyryan]

Other people have still gotten in trouble around here, it's pretty safe to say they just dont think s/he's worth the trouble of dealing with. i.e. just give him/her their one thread in this dark corner and leave it at that.

There is so little overall activity that it would stand to reason they should take responsibility for it. Repeated ban evasion in this case for posting the same spam should just result in suspension the Square Enix account itself.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/HgXpTHT/0602.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/7xfwFRz/0603.png

[Safie]

imagine rather then rally behind you and speak up for trying to hold bots accountable to the STF's role and purpose other players gripe about you?!

Mods, GM's or community reps the playerbase wants you to take these complaints to whoever you need to! Streamline the process and talk with the community whatever you need but can we just admit the STF and player reports much less botting issue is not getting the attention is rightfully deserves! Lets fix this already bring STF front and center we need a Q & A from them and some insight into this matter cause it really seems like this is an issue NOT being addressed.

FFXI is a community not an auto play bot fest

[Alhanelem]

imagine rather then rally behind you and speak up for trying to hold bots accountable to the STF's role and purpose other players gripe about you?!

Mods, GM's or community reps the playerbase wants you to take these complaints to whoever you need to! Streamline the process and talk with the community whatever you need but can we just admit the STF and player reports much less botting issue is not getting the attention is rightfully deserves! Lets fix this already bring STF front and center we need a Q & A from them and some insight into this matter cause it really seems like this is an issue NOT being addressed.

FFXI is a community not an auto play bot fest
We all want bots to be dealt with, the point is just that this thread is entirely non-productive, no one here needs proof that he's reporting people, and they're doing it anyway. This is not the way to spur action. Personally, if I were him and I wanted to see something done about bots, I wouldn't be fixated on just one example. I would be reporting and gathering evidence on every cheater/botter I can find that isn't part of Team Facerollnamed Galka, because those are clearly getting banned/deleted- there's no reason too constantly generate characters with new gibberish names if there's no reason to expect action will be taken.

I'm honestly tempted to spend time on asura camping in that area just to see this stuff happening, to verify myself that it's actually just one person doing it (as this thread makes it appear to be), and just exactly what their behavior looks like. Because if there's one thing missing from this thread that would paint the whole picture it's videos and screenshots of the actual behavior taking place. I strungly suspect it isn't really just one or two bots.

[Uriah]

#611
This particular bot, is just one bot. Monopolizing Abyss Sahagin. it's always "M". The owner controls "S" (the antican bot) and "K" (the Rancor bot) and who knows how many other bots.

The actions are obviously automation. They stand there for 15 minutes while the surrounding sahagins attack him. The Abyss Sahagin spawns, the bot spins around, provokes, then engages, then stands there still being attacked by the other sahagins. if their HP ever drops enough, it will engage and use sanguin blade to fill HP.

The point is, repeatedly reporting the same bot proves the inaction, whereas if I picked a different bot every day (there are THOUSANDS) you could easily ignore one report. You can't ignore 300 reports for the same bot. (well they can, and do, but it's more blatant that way) Showing the same bot being reported every single day tells a different story than showing how many bots there are. I COULD do both. I could report the same bot AND a new bot every day. But I don't want to. I could file a thousand reports every day, there are enough bots that I could file a report every 5 minutes of every day and still not get them all.

I would record it. I would record mpking the bot, to prove unequivocally that it's not a human controlling it, but they would just ban ME for it.

[Sp1cyryan]

I would record it. I would record mpking the bot, to prove unequivocally that it's not a human controlling it, but they would just ban ME for it.

Don't worry, the GMs in game have likely taken the same attitude as the mods have to you here, and just ignore doing anything. So you wouldn't be banned, but then again the bots wouldn't be either.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/5nyf7J3/0604.png

[Alhanelem]

I would record it. I would record mpking the bot, to prove unequivocally that it's not a human controlling it, but they would just ban ME for it. Streaming and recording are specifically allowed under the terms. Just don't record yourself using obvious external tools.

Same thing goes and went for FFXIV as well- there was a recent debacle of high end raiders getting suspended for third party tool use (damage meters) while streaming. But if you don't advertise to the world that you're breaking the rules, well, you won't get in trouble now will you?

[Catmato]

Streaming and recording are specifically allowed under the terms. Just don't record yourself using obvious external tools.
Intentional MPKing is never allowed.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/QntbccM/0605.png

[Alhanelem]

Intentional MPKing is never allowed.
That's not what I"m proposing they do.

[Sp1cyryan]

Intentional MPKing is never allowed.

Oh please, SE does little to nothing and so do the mods here ignore anyone that actually puts up enough resistance. So allowed or not falls into a grey area. SE can easily tell who is using GearSwap in Windower for example.

[Alhanelem]

This particular bot, is just one bot.I'm really not sure I believe this. Which is why I'd want to see it for myself.

[Haldarn]

What if the bots are controlled by SE in order to ensure constant currency inflation? #darksteelfoilhat

[Uriah]

#621
https://i.ibb.co/HqcWcmM/0606.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/tpwmBp6/0607.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/G5ffRQB/0608.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/cCJKhvL/0609.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/Ny0WxZL/0610.png

[Uriah]

D'aww someone killed the Abyss Sahagin bot again, lol

https://i.ibb.co/Fb3W66m/0611.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/sjL7JYR/0612.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/m8tNJx4/0613.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/XsvnJCN/0614.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/hcKy8Zg/0615.png

[Uriah]

#631
https://i.ibb.co/zVkt1TG/0616.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/1vrY0q7/0617.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/XXTmYV4/0618.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/8Xpq0wm/0619.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/CpLv5sk/0620.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/7j3rqFk/0621.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/WpGLQBN/0622.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/8Y1Ydms/0623.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/TT3Bbdm/0624.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/wd9nC73/0625.png

[Uriah]

#641
https://i.ibb.co/tMkDSxq/0626.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/Hpwv8jZ/0627.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/njqwF7p/0628.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/DVB1MnD/0629.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/v4brGVC/0630.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/fvxVyjV/0701.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/9cTCyKb/0702.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/wJjqpGv/0703.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/mX0wvTX/0704.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/4Swx8Q4/0705.png

[Uriah]

#651
https://i.ibb.co/2MHsy4r/0706.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/wdYp0RP/0707.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/3dxTMNm/0708.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/0JTh8Hk/0709.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/Jy6SkXt/0710.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/NtCt8hw/0711.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/QcnKSKN/0712.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/YBvcWqj/0713.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/zSQYJxH/0714.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/7WKkPND/0715.png

[Uriah]

#661
https://i.ibb.co/x62nzgC/0716.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/qNm5wb8/0717.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/kcxQC4y/0718.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/hgPjH6K/0719.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/gTy5v98/0720.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/k8HYb58/0721.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/jycJ76x/0722.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/xsWtjcp/0723.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/fQ7xHyX/0724.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/X8yw76J/0725.png

[Uriah]

#671
https://i.ibb.co/z6xxgT9/0726.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/0p56SKT/0727.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/Y8xtHBp/0728.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/rcCYgtD/0729.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/fk7HtGw/0730.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/dD1J63z/0731.png

[Catmato]

Is that an effective way to make money?

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/b2wc830/0801.png


Is that an effective way to make money?

I would assume, obviously no, but as they've been doing it for a year (that I know of) it must. They also sell gold ingots, and crystals, from botting, so they're making more than the sub is worth.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/DLVmRT2/0802.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/2hNBV1N/0803.png

[Uriah]

#681
https://i.ibb.co/cY2Bjfd/0804.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/g9gsjmV/0805.png

[Uriah]

Did you FINALLY ban Abyss Sahagin bot "M******"? Been gone longer than usual. Every time I assume you finally did something he always comes back to prove you continue to do nothing.

https://i.ibb.co/mNwVZky/0806.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/SBw0dzH/0807.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/NK3ZR8F/0808.png

[BobbinT]

just a suggestion: maybe moving away from Asura? might give you fresh airs & unclouded judgements. At least here on Bahamut, we got some Asura refugees & overall got life improvements. Or any other servers, so that you might not get pestered by these bots infestation. I know it might sux losing existing friends, but we have other means for em, like discord & such. ;)

[Uriah]

I'm not "bothered" by the bots. I'm just tired of people pretending the rules matter anymore.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/dpNvwrB/0809.png

[BobbinT]

Understood. Also forgot to mention that we currently got plethora's of game libraries, it's practically impossible to try em all. Maybe give other games a go rather than distracted by this game's flaws.
Not gonna force ya, just offering things you can at least stress off elsewhere. ;)

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/bmBCw0d/0810.png

[Uriah]

#691
https://i.ibb.co/7VM2YJW/0811.png

[Alhanelem]

I'm not "bothered" by the bots. I'm just tired of people pretending the rules matter anymore.The rules seem to matter enough for everyone other than this particular bot.

[BobbinT]

The rules seem to matter enough for everyone other than this particular bot.

"everyone"? :p

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/hX3fMTn/0812.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/X84YSKQ/0813.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/pQYs7Sk/0814.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/LpZ2tkw/0815.png

[Uriah]

The rules seem to matter enough for everyone other than this particular bot.

Yeah, except for the literal thousand I can name and locate botting 24/7

https://i.ibb.co/f8PdcZh/0816.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/HKxtkd7/0817.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/DG19rM0/0818.png

[Alhanelem]

Yeah, except for the literal thousand I can name and locate botting 24/7But you're almost exclusively going on about this one.

[Uriah]

#702
Because it is impossible to report a thousand bots a day.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/k2gZhsx/0819.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/Mg53BR6/0820.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/tccRbdg/0821.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/YhwPt5f/0822.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/0qm1NRN/0823.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/KqKvyJD/0824.png

[Alhanelem]

#702
Because it is impossible to report a thousand bots a day.
I'm not suggesting that you do. But why is this one a bigger deal than all of them?

[Uriah]

It's the only one I can find and verify currently with no effort.

I'd have to run through out other zones to verify any other bot is currently botting. But I can just log in a mule and see they're there.

I know, every single sam/geo/bst/nin/thf in doh/woh/sih/moh ARE botting, and I know the thousand other bots that I know of are botting. I can verify with absolute certainty the Sea Serpent Grotto bot though. And the QSC and Rancor Den bot(s), but I'm not tripling my "work load" when one is sufficient.

[Sp1cyryan]

It's the only one I can find and verify currently with no effort.

I'd have to run through out other zones to verify any other bot is currently botting. But I can just log in a mule and see they're there.

I know, every single sam/geo/bst/nin/thf in doh/woh/sih/moh ARE botting, and I know the thousand other bots that I know of are botting. I can verify with absolute certainty the Sea Serpent Grotto bot though. And the QSC and Rancor Den bot(s), but I'm not tripling my "work load" when one is sufficient.

You should just bot these reports since you are already just phoning in the logic, lol.

[Demonviper]

Imagine coming to this thread and acting like a jerk to someone reporting cheaters.

What's the point? They're doing a public service.

[Uriah]

Saltyryan just always looks for attention. he's best mostly ignored.

[Alhanelem]

I know, every single sam/geo/bst/nin/thf in doh/woh/sih/moh ARE botting, and I know the thousand other bots that I know of are botting.I'd like to know how you *know* this. I myself have spent time grinding with real live people playing such jobs in those areas. So your use of "all" is disingenuous. I'm not trying to suggest there's no botters there, but you can't say they all are because I can prove that there are one or more that aren't.


Imagine coming to this thread and acting like a jerk to someone reporting cheaters.

What's the point? They're doing a public service. I think a better question is what's the point in reporting the same person 1000 times. Even a support staff person (The ones that occasionaly reply to the support threads) has to have glanced at one of these threads casually at some point. If they *have* ever looked at this or the reports, they have to have conducted even the most basic analysis of the situation and come to some sort of conclusion (i.e. that whatever they're doing isn't egregious enough to support a ban, or they did ban the guy way back and just don't feel like playing whack-a-mole)

I'm not going to say putting in reports is bad, because it isn't, but I think he'd be doing a better service just reporting each unique botter they discover instead of reporting the same one til the cows come h ome. It should have been obvious that whatever the reason, having seen the reports or not, that SE made up its mind about this abyss sahagin guy a long time ago. If he really wants to do a public service, report more people in more places. I honestly think it would actually do a better job of proving the point he's trying to make.

[Uriah]

Except, it doesn't. The point I'm making is reporting is pointless. I can report the same bot 400 times before they finally disappear.

Reporting a different bot every day would make a different point, one that is (also) pointless, but not the point I care about.

Everyone already knows there are entirely too many bots. Everyone knows this. Some are in denial about it, but it is fact. Everyone also knows those bots are keeping the sub count high enough to stay alive. Square allows this. Again. Everyone knows this. Some are in denial.

What they seem to not know is that the rules no longer apply. If you don't clip you can do anything you want with no repercussions.

[Alhanelem]

I mean if that's your only point I'd say you made it several hundred posts ago. Why bother continuing? It's not like any of us really doesn't know this at this point. I don't think anyone here is pretending that SE isn't reluctant to ban bots because they generate too much income to ignore. We know it, they know it, the bots know it. Are you expecting SE to publicly say "we don't care about bots because we get money?" That will never happen, because that would be suicidal for the game.

[Uriah]

#717
I said I would, and I'm going to. That's the beginning and the end.

But yes, if Matsui himself admits what we already know, I'll be done. Until then, or the servers close. every. single. day. Period.
Unless power or net goes out and I have to double/triple up days to make up for a missed one.

Edit; I also except bribes, but I am very expensive.

[Alhanelem]

I said I would, and I'm going to. That's the beginning and the end.

But yes, if Matsui himself admits what we already know, I'll be done. Until then, or the servers close. every. single. day. Period.
Unless power or net goes out and I have to double/triple up days to make up for a missed one.
All I'm saying is I like that outcome less than I like the status quo. I still want to play the game, thus I don't want to see them do anything that would actively destroy it.

None of your desired outcomes will ever happen. Not in 1000 posts, not in 100,000.

[Uriah]

We're gonna find out.

[Alhanelem]

We're gonna find out.I'm not so sure we will. lol

[Uriah]

#721
https://i.ibb.co/J5C4m4P/0825.png

[Sp1cyryan]

Saltyryan just always looks for attention. he's best mostly ignored.

Not to point out the obvious here at your attempt in formulating condescending remarks. However, it isn't ignoring someone when you directly refer to them in the third person. 10/10 for name originality though.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/NNhvC8Y/0826.png

[Sp1cyryan]

I'm not so sure we will. lol

They are trapped in the spiral of their own making. A paradoxical world of defiance and denial. Where the more they report a single individual over and over. The less reason there is to, due to the ever increasing evidence of futility in their actions. Yet they—in what could even be ascribed to fanaticism if not an outright cry for professional help—refuse to change their own self-determined course.

TL;DR: Each report unanswered creates more evidence it will be anything but ignored. To continue ignoring being ignored and expect "we will find out" is pure insanity.

[Alhanelem]

They are trapped in the spiral of their own making. A paradoxical world of defiance and denial. Where the more they report a single individual over and over. The less reason there is to, due to the ever increasing evidence of futility in their actions. Yet they—in what could even be ascribed to fanaticism if not an outright cry for professional help—refuse to change their own self-determined course.

TL;DR: Each report unanswered creates more evidence it will be anything but ignored. To continue ignoring being ignored and expect "we will find out" is pure insanity.Well that's the point I was trying to make. If these reports were ever seen by anyone, and it would be hard for even an SE employee casually passing by not to at least see this thread (And I know for a fact it has been, particularly considering the past thread deletions and merges), then clearly, they've already come to a conclusion about this character. Reporting a variety of users, particularly those cheating in more ways than simply automating their play, and still seeing nothing would be a far better indicator of their stance.

And I say this out of a shared desire to see the game cleaned up.

[Uriah]

https://i.imgur.com/6SjsHZZ.png

[Zehira]

Imagine coming to this thread and acting like a jerk to someone reporting cheaters.

What's the point? They're doing a public service.

Just a point is do we want any more lying report from the STF team? They only address it once or none a year. Not only it affects us, it also affects the other side of this forum. This thread already created a good evidence everyone is safe no matter what rules you break which is indeed sad.


I'm not so sure we will. lol

I am not so sure either. It seems SE decided to let this thread to be his little toy to play with during a period of time (?). This forum already powered by vbulletin and there are plenty of good plugins that admins can install one and make this thread invisible to them while this visible only to us.

Anyway, I have been enjoying Island Sanctuary in FFXIV. It's one of few reasons not to feel burnt out easily. I would love to see SE to keep supporting it. The idea of the Island Sanctuary is clearly based on the Mog Garden which I really enjoyed but I have already maximized everything. :(

[Alhanelem]

I am not so sure either. It seems SE decided to let this thread to be his little toy to play with during a period of time (?). This forum already powered by vbulletin and there are plenty of good plugins that admins can install one and make this thread invisible to them while this visible only to us.They would never do something like that, that would make it impossible to examine for terms violations. Not saying there is currently but there could be in the future. It's not hard to simply ignore something.

[Zehira]

They would never do something like that, that would make it impossible to examine for terms violations. Not saying there is currently but there could be in the future. It's not hard to simply ignore something.

They can hide this thread somehow they please. The only way to get their attention is you reporting a post.

[Alhanelem]

They can hide this thread somehow they please. The only way to get their attention is you reporting a postI'm just saying there's no reason or motivation for them to hide a post from themselves, which is what you said. They're supposed to be professional enough to be above grudges and petty squabbles.

[Sp1cyryan]

I'm just saying there's no reason or motivation for them to hide a post from themselves, which is what you said. They're supposed to be professional enough to be above grudges and petty squabbles.

However, they aren't, and they have intentionally allowed this thread and it's main poster to continue. Just like the entirely different GM team has allowed botting to continue as a rampant plague upon Vana'diel. I say this as someone who wants both cleaned up.

Since they have deliberately decided to neglect any responsibility towards such individuals. They may as well hide this thread. As the OP is no less of a problem than what they are reporting.

[Uriah]

#732
https://i.ibb.co/Dr9853Y/0828.png

[Alhanelem]

However, they aren't, and they have intentionally allowed this thread and it's main poster to continue. Just like the entirely different GM team has allowed botting to continue as a rampant plague upon Vana'diel. I say this as someone who wants both cleaned up.

I mean, this isn't SE/the moderators putting him on their ignore list. This is them dealing with this situation by containing these posts to one thread (when he had made several, and has had at least one account banned).

Sometimes, it is in fact better to just let someone live in their own little corner instead of dealing with an unnecessairly angry person who's going to keep making accounts (I wouldn't put it past him to buy more copies of the game to do so)

I have been a mod on various forums over the years, and there is sometimes that one user who simply can not be shut down and it's easier to just shadowban them or shove their posts into a corner and let them do their thing where it bothers as few people as possible.

Honestly there are ways to do that in VB, I'm a little surrpised they didn't go that route. If it wasn't for us posting here, he could easily have been shadowbanned and not know it.

[Zehira]

There a certain extension for Chrome or Firefox with the right script to hide all threads and posts created by users. It's a very powerful feature and no I am not ignoring Alhanelem. :)

[Sp1cyryan]

I mean, this isn't SE/the moderators putting him on their ignore list. This is them dealing with this situation by containing these posts to one thread (when he had made several, and has had at least one account banned).

Sometimes, it is in fact better to just let someone live in their own little corner instead of dealing with an unnecessairly angry person who's going to keep making accounts (I wouldn't put it past him to buy more copies of the game to do so)

I have been a mod on various forums over the years, and there is sometimes that one user who simply can not be shut down and it's easier to just shadowban them or shove their posts into a corner and let them do their thing where it bothers as few people as possible.

Honestly there are ways to do that in VB, I'm a little surrpised they didn't go that route. If it wasn't for us posting here, he could easily have been shadowbanned and not know it.

There is no containment here since it spills over into other interactions with them on other boards. Let alone any notion of shadow banning. It is entirely naive and justifies inaction.

Also being a mod and admin myself over the years. I don't understand this defeatist approach. It sends a message that anyone who puts up enough fuss will see the team fold. It's an unacceptable response. Especially since they would have to buy more copies of the game. Good, let them, that's great. It takes them far more effort than the moderator who is supposed to be doing the task they signed up for.

With how little moderation is required here it is absolutely inexcusable. Frankly, it sends a message reinforcing that the entirety of staff from the STF to the moderators and so on are negligent. It tarnishes the image of the company and erodes trust from the community to the historic lows we see in community sentiment.

[Alhanelem]

Also being a mod and admin myself over the years. I don't understand this defeatist approach. WHen banning the same troll over and over again doesn't deter them, nothing will. In a few cases its gotten to the point where dealing with them has taken meaningful time away from other matters. There are people, like Uriah, whom can not be shut down no matter

On this forum it's m ore possible than most because forum accounts are tied to SE accounts. But I really would not put it past him to buy more copies of the game to keep playing his game. After all we already know he's had one account banned.

[Sp1cyryan]

WHen banning the same troll over and over again doesn't deter them, nothing will. In a few cases its gotten to the point where dealing with them has taken meaningful time away from other matters. There are people, like Uriah, whom can not be shut down no matter

On this forum it's m ore possible than most because forum accounts are tied to SE accounts. But I really would not put it past him to buy more copies of the game to keep playing his game. After all we already know he's had one account banned.

The second paragraph disproves the first of having any validity here.

[Zehira]

Get uBlock Origin extension for Chrome or Firefox and use the filter line.


forum.square-enix.com###thread_58360

You can still visit this thread. It just won't be visible on the forum top.

[Alhanelem]

The second paragraph disproves the first of having any validity here.

You'd be surprised how far some people will go.

[Sp1cyryan]

You'd be surprised how far some people will go.

I'm really not surprised. I just don't agree with the excuses though.

[Alhanelem]

I'm really not surprised. I just don't agree with the excuses though.
Do you really want to see how far they would take it if SE kept swinging the hammer?

[Catmato]

Do you really want to see how far they would take it if SE kept swinging the hammer?

Do you not?

[Alhanelem]

Do you not?

Well, I'd prefer this silliniess just stop, and I've tried reaching out, being understanding, and I've tried arguing against them, but so far I haven't discovered any rationality to what they're doing. So... I'm conflicted lol.

My mind just has to try to make sense of whatever it doesn't understand. But I'm starting to suspect nothing will change until either they get their wish, which we all know will never happen, or they get shut down until there's nothing left to be shut down.

[Uriah]

#744 A rare mobile report, Page looks better than the PC page.
https://i.ibb.co/ypK63Rw/Screenshot-20220829-221442.png

[Sp1cyryan]

Do you really want to see how far they would take it if SE kept swinging the hammer?

Since you are insinuating the slippery slope fallacy , yes, absolutely.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/x6mZb8d/0830.png

[Alhanelem]

Since you are insinuating the slippery slope fallacy , yes, absolutely. I'm not insinuating anything. I'm asking a simple question. There is no logical fallacy because I'm not making an argument.

[Sp1cyryan]

I'm not insinuating anything. I'm asking a simple question. There is no logical fallacy because I'm not making an argument.

You literally asked if I want to see how far they take the ban hammer. As in to say it won't stop there and how far will the slippery slope go.

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/P6Wf1tY/0831.png

[Uriah]

https://i.ibb.co/G7SrCVY/0901.png