July 2021 FINAL FANTASY XI Digest

[Akihiko_Matsui]

The latest FINAL FANTASY XI Digest is now available! The digest covers key features from the most recent version update. Check out the video, try the version update, and leave a feedback based on your experience of playing the new content.

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[Gwydion]

Respectfully, what were you thinking? :(

1.) No queue system for Wyrm God HTBF?
2.) No minimum party size entry?
3.) No storage slips for new items when existing Twilight gear can be stored on Storage Slip 03.
4.) No Item Level Twilight Cape, Neck or Belt?

Do you hate us?

[Kalimairo]

We don't need a minimum party size entry, that will only attract Box users, but yea we need a queue time for sure

[Indigla]

Fight seems to have old drop rules (muleable items, personal pool, possibly guaranteed drops on VD, thank you for this btw). So it probably won't be too hard to farm it out? I don't expect congestion to be that big a deal after a little while.

[Leny]

Respectfully, what were you thinking? :(

1.) No queue system for Wyrm God HTBF?
2.) No minimum party size entry?
3.) No storage slips for new items when existing Twilight gear can be stored on Storage Slip 03.
4.) No Item Level Twilight Cape, Neck or Belt?

Do you hate us?

You never cease to impress SE.. with just how poorly you think with absolutely everything you do. Keep up the mediocre effort.

[Haldarn]

I was impressed that without the need to say anything, we stood in a line in Empyreal Paradox awaiting our turn at the battlefield. Until one player zoned in, ran past us all and grabbed it.

Ah well, I guess no-one will be doing it in a day or two and queuing won't be an issue.

[Zhexos]

Greetings everyone,

We would like to offer our apologies regarding ★The Wyrm God high-tier battlefield, which was released today.

Due to the specifications of ★The Wyrm God, we are unable to implement a multi-layer area or reservation system. As only a limited number of parties can participate in this content at once, we anticipate high levels of congestion.

We apologize for the inconvenience this congestion may cause and thank you for your patience and understanding.

[Elkanah]

You never cease to impress SE.. with just how poorly you think with absolutely everything you do. Keep up the mediocre effort.

FFXI devs before - Due to ps2 and xbox 360 limitations, we can't create new content and expansions.

FFXI puts out Seekers of adoulin

**years later...**

FFXI devs - we got rid of PS2 support

FFXI devs - We got rid of Xbox 360 support

FFXI - it's all pc only now

FFXI - 95% of the QoL features (including trusts and new MSQ are added)

Also FFXI devs - we can't do anything new at all or add new features even though we added a number of QoL changes to the game over the last several years post PS2 and Xbox 360 support removal

Players: <_________________< yall been adding new things since then, what?

[Alhanelem]

Respectfully, what were you thinking? :(

1.) No queue system for Wyrm God HTBF?
2.) No minimum party size entry?
3.) No storage slips for new items when existing Twilight gear can be stored on Storage Slip 03.
4.) No Item Level Twilight Cape, Neck or Belt?

Do you hate us?
After 48 hours this is going to be fine on every sever other than Asura and maybe Odin.

Except for the item related parts.

[Krogoth]

After 48 hours this is going to be fine on every sever other than Asura and maybe Odin.

Except for the item related parts.

That would make sense, if all the gear was equally likely in the drop tables. It doesn't take an experienced tester to tell you that 1% droprate on 5 pieces of gear isn't going to get the whole server population through the system very fast.

[Alhanelem]

That would make sense, if all the gear was equally likely in the drop tables. It doesn't take an experienced tester to tell you that 1% droprate on 5 pieces of gear isn't going to get the whole server population through the system very fast.
Probably not, but after they can't get in for a few days, half of everybody will give up and maybe try in a week or two. lol

[Yoji_Fujito]

Greetings, Director Fujito here.

We would like to address the situation regarding the congestion in ★The Wyrm God.

Our ideal solution would be implementing a multi-layer area or reservation system to allow players to enter the content more smoothly, but this is unfortunately impractical due to the tremendous complexity of adding these for the area used in this particular content.

After hard consideration, we have decided to increase the number of merit points required for phantom gems from 10 to 30 in an effort to allow more players an opportunity to enjoy the content.
Since this adjustment by itself would only become a burden for players, we will also increase the chances of obtaining certain rewards (particularly equipment) across all difficulty levels.
We'll perform an emergency maintenance to apply this change once it's ready for implementation.

Furthermore, this adjustment is not a temporary workaround; it will remain this way moving forward.

We offer our humblest apologies for the inconvenience this has caused.

[Alhanelem]

While increasing the cost doesn't have a dramatic impact by itself by how easy MPs are to obtain these days, together with potentially needing fewer repetitions it will help clear out the line, to be sure.

[Jvd]

And any comments they don't like will get 'cleared out' as well. lol

[Leny]

And any comments they don't like will get 'cleared out' as well. lol

Factually accurate statement. IE; They deleted my post saying that it won't work in so many words.

[Krogoth]

The cost per fight is immaterial to how many people are waiting for the fight. All that matters is how many fights it takes to get the rarest drop, and how long each fight lasts. Sure, you can change the cost to make it "balanced," whatever that means, but the key metric determining how long the arena stays congested is the total amount of time each person spends fighting.

[Jvd]

So, obviously there's a lot of upset among the player base.
Even if they had began this new HTMB with a queue, we'd still have complaints.

Luckily, there are still some useful drops to think about.
I was originally excited to see the new take on an ilvl belt or neck.
Can you imagine how those might've looked?
Knowing there are some good accessory options for ranged is nice.
So, it's a mixed bag through and through.

While we wait for them to make more tweaks and adjustments,
Indeed, there will be even more backlash.
No doubt that's it's impossible to please everyone.
Do you think they'll eventually just put a queue on it?
Or do you think we'll get to deal with overrun merit camps?
Who can say?
SE, we're not mad. Just dissapointed.

[Zehira]

And any comments they don't like will get 'cleared out' as well. lol

Not only comments they don't like. It's a long story though.

Welcome to the "official" forums. 0 w 0

[Coffeegood]

Just people whining because they want instant gratification, you created a monster by making World of Warcraft version of final fantasy in 14 and these people come and want that level of instant wins here. Create Content to keep people busy and feel like they are accomplishing something alot of us beat the game already and getting bored of flux content and bcnm's just to get gear to repeat old content we have everything from with.

[Alhanelem]

Factually accurate statement. IE; They deleted my post saying that it won't work in so many words.


Why would you say it won't work?
I mean, you're not going to see an immediate impact, since 30 merits vs 10 is only going to slow farmers down a little bit, but having to repeat the fight less to get what you want will have an impact in the mid term.

This happens every time a new BCNM comes out, it's a temporary issue. Perhaps worse here because of the number of parties allowed in vs other regular BCNM areas, After some people get what they want it will be easier to get in.



The cost per fight is immaterial to how many people are waiting for the fight. All that matters is how many fights it takes to get the rarest drop, and how long each fight lasts. Sure, you can change the cost to make it "balanced," whatever that means, but the key metric determining how long the arena stays congested is the total amount of time each person spends fighting. The drop rates are being increased, which should tell you the total amount of time any one person or group spends fighting should be lower.

[Alhanelem]

Just people whining because they want instant gratification, you created a monster by making World of Warcraft version of final fantasy in 14 and these people come and want that level of instant wins here. Create Content to keep people busy and feel like they are accomplishing something alot of us beat the game already and getting bored of flux content and bcnm's just to get gear to repeat old content we have everything from with.

The number of people who come here from 14 is not that much. And anyone who plays long enough to get to the content most people are playing will have understood by that point that there's no such thing as instant gratification in this game. For the vast majority of 14 visitors, especially any that came from WoW before coming to 14, they're not even going to have the patience to get far enough to get in your way.

[Zehira]

The communities of 14 are quite different. Kids these days don't like players who don't like 14 and those who play on a private server will never play retail unless something else they have been demanding for many years.

In Vana'diel, we have main character syndrome.

[Krogoth]

The drop rates are being increased, which should tell you the total amount of time any one person or group spends fighting should be lower.

Oh, it will help. The question is how much it will help. There are multiple ways to "increase the drop rate," and they're not all the same.


Upon reflection, and knowing that Squeenix devs are not active players, maybe I should explain the basics more.

When you release gear, people are going to want it. When you release gear that has a viable use, more people are going to want it. When you release different pieces of gear for different jobs, in a game where people have multiple jobs, they're going to want all of the pieces, not just one.

When people want gear, they're going to keep fighting until they get it.

When there is a large difference in drop rate between two different pieces of gear that people want, only the lowest drop rate is going to matter in practice.

Consequently, the following argument is only in the context of the lowest drop rate among all the gear in the pool of potential drops, because that is the biggest determinant of how long people will keep fighting:


First, they could increase the number of drop slots for gear. I can't say that it will have no effect, but when the rarest drop is still 1%, the effect isn't as big as you'd think. If they add one drop slot to the two existing on VD, then it's still going to take 66 fights instead of 100 to get the drop, on average.

Second, they could increase the odds of drop slot being filled. This will have almost no impact on players who fight on higher difficulties, because the slots are almost always filled as it is. This is the worst scenario, and might actually increase congestion by encouraging players to do fast, low risk fights instead of longer ones. See Maiden of the Dusk for an example.

Third, they could multiply the lowest drop rates in the drop slot. This will clearly help. The average time to get rewards is decreased linearly with the multiplier. 3x drop rate for 3x entry cost yields the same number of rare drops per merit, but people work through the system faster than before.

Fourth, they could remove the complication of having "rare drops" within the drop slot. This amounts to a large multiplier on the "rare" drop rate, by a factor of 12 (because there are 8 drops total). Across an entire server population, the effects are linear. But on the individual level, higher drop rate means less variability in how long it takes to get the drop. In statistical terms, the standard deviation changes alongside the median number of fights. This means fewer players needing to use up the arena for significantly longer than average, getting more frustrated each time. Fewer players complaining that they see the same faces taking up arena slots time after time, in a manner that looks a lot like griefing. Again, it gets the whole population through in the same linear fashion as multiplying drop rate, but with a lot less negative feedback.


It's good that Squeenix is acknowledging that competition for limited arena slots is a problem. And they are technically correct that the problem will go away ... on one timescale or another. But when they release a fix for it, they should be able to estimate how long it will take for the congestion to ease, and they need to have a target time to compare those estimates to. It was always predictable, there's no excuse for doing things at random and hoping they work.

[Allreadyinuse]

Making it cost 30 merits solves nothing if the drop rate goes from 0.01% to 0.03%. JUST GIVE US THE PROC SYSTEM!!! if your goal is to make annoying content you done good here. No one cares about congestion if can finally get a drop besides like asura? who cares about asura!!!

[Alhanelem]

Making it cost 30 merits solves nothing if the drop rate goes from 0.01% to 0.03%. JUST GIVE US THE PROC SYSTEM!!! if your goal is to make annoying content you done good here. No one cares about congestion if can finally get a drop besides like asura? who cares about asura!!!
it would be more likely 1% to 3, 4%. and that means 1 in 100 vs one in 33 or 1 in 25. that's statistically a lot fewer runs of the battle.

[Leny]

It certainly won't be a whole % they have tables for much lower.

[Alhanelem]

It certainly won't be a whole % they have tables for much lower.
Only a few items actually use the very lowest values on their table. the stuff people want from this I honestly don't think qualifies.

But the point is, regardless of what the value is, doubling it means half the number of attempts on average, triple means a third, etc etc. We don't get to change what math means just because the numbers are small.

[Coffeegood]

it would be more likely 1% to 3, 4%. and that means 1 in 100 vs one in 33 or 1 in 25. that's statistically a lot fewer runs of the battle. after 14 VD's seen 5 ammo, 3 rings, cloak and Body armor people just need to get better and do higher difficulties, the fix is just pushing congestion to the few XP areas it is going to still be annoying, you won't win any medals for fighting this war just do the math padawan.

[Alhanelem]

after 14 VD's seen 5 ammo, 3 rings, cloak and Body armor people just need to get better and do higher difficulties, the fix is just pushing congestion to the few XP areas it is going to still be annoying, you won't win any medals for fighting this war just do the math padawan.
"few xp areas?" there's about a million places you can max out merits in a reasonable timeframe.

[Krogoth]

after 14 VD's seen 5 ammo, 3 rings, cloak and Body armor people just need to get better and do higher difficulties, the fix is just pushing congestion to the few XP areas it is going to still be annoying, you won't win any medals for fighting this war just do the math padawan.

It isn't a hard fight. People are already doing VD, and most aren't getting as many drops as you. But hey, let's take your results and run a back of the envelope estimate with them. It will be informative for all involved.

If we assume all people group up and git gud to the tune of only spending 5 minutes in the arena per fight, that means 12 fights per arena. This isn't exactly a great assumption, but it's our spherical cow for this scenario.
Each server has 3 arenas. That means 36 fights per server per hour.
You report 1 "rare drop" per 7 fights. 36 / 7 is slightly above 5. We'll round down because it makes the math easy.
That means 5 drops per server per hour under ideal conditions. By coincidence, 5 is how many different "rare drops" there are. For someone to "catch them all" they'll need this many drops.
So we can estimate that for every server, one person's worth of drops will take 1 hour.
Every 1000 active characters on the server will result in the arena being 100% full for 1000 hours. That's 41 days.
I don't know how many active characters there are (though square enix will be able to guess) but let's pull the number 3000 out of a hat for Asura.
To get 3000 people through the system will take 123 days, or 4 months. That's 4 months of the fight being 100% full every moment of every day of every week. Under ideal conditions, and assuming perfect coordination and cooperation.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't need to put in work to get rewards. But more work can only result in more rewards if there's room for more workers to work. When the arena is full, more effort cannot create more drops. And that is the issue.

(It's also an issue that the almighty devs have said they want to address. This post is largely for them, so they have the tools to think about how to actually address it.)

[Coffeegood]

It isn't a hard fight. People are already doing VD, and most aren't getting as many drops as you. But hey, let's take your results and run a back of the envelope estimate with them. It will be informative for all involved.

If we assume all people group up and git gud to the tune of only spending 5 minutes in the arena per fight, that means 12 fights per arena. This isn't exactly a great assumption, but it's our spherical cow for this scenario.
Each server has 3 arenas. That means 36 fights per server per hour.
You report 1 "rare drop" per 7 fights. 36 / 7 is slightly above 5. We'll round down because it makes the math easy.
That means 5 drops per server per hour under ideal conditions. By coincidence, 5 is how many different "rare drops" there are. For someone to "catch them all" they'll need this many drops.
So we can estimate that for every server, one person's worth of drops will take 1 hour.
Every 1000 active characters on the server will result in the arena being 100% full for 1000 hours. That's 41 days.
I don't know how many active characters there are (though square enix will be able to guess) but let's pull the number 3000 out of a hat for Asura.
To get 3000 people through the system will take 123 days, or 4 months. That's 4 months of the fight being 100% full every moment of every day of every week. Under ideal conditions, and assuming perfect coordination and cooperation.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't need to put in work to get rewards. But more work can only result in more rewards if there's room for more workers to work. When the arena is full, more effort cannot create more drops. And that is the issue.

(It's also an issue that the almighty devs have said they want to address. This post is largely for them, so they have the tools to think about how to actually address it.)
Theres alot of fake math in here considering fights take 2min 30 sec average with buff time included, also left out 3 earring drops too and I doubt that out of the 420 people online at any given time on Bismark that 1/2 of them would be able to do VD the fix is obviously just for Asura and the Massive 1.6k+ online presence lately on the most overcrowded server.

[Krogoth]

Theres alot of fake math in here considering fights take 2min 30 sec average with buff time included, also left out 3 earring drops too and I doubt that out of the 420 people online at any given time on Bismark that 1/2 of them would be able to do VD the fix is obviously just for Asura and the Massive 1.6k+ online presence lately on the most overcrowded server.

Cool, thanks for helping me refine the model. So 2 months of ideal conditions with optimal strategy on the most crowded server.

But of course, as you mention, not everyone is able to play optimally. Since you think the system is working fine, I have to thank you for being so patient with the rest of us locking you out of the arena for a little while longer. It's nice to see the community grow to embrace the weaker members.

[JKap_Goat]

The number of people who come here from 14 is not that much. And anyone who plays long enough to get to the content most people are playing will have understood by that point that there's no such thing as instant gratification in this game. For the vast majority of 14 visitors, especially any that came from WoW before coming to 14, they're not even going to have the patience to get far enough to get in your way.

I came from ffxiv and this is true but i like that there isnt instant gratification, makes the game more challenging than XIV

[Vorix]

Banning anyone who speaks out against you.

Stay classy Square.

[Manque]

I appreciate your effort to release a new battlefield and tweak some classic armor and weapons. Thank you.

At the same time, the HTBF content seems to have two extremes for the majority of players: 1) solo forever on Easy, Very Easy for drops or 2) party up and do Difficult or Very Difficult.

For example, in my time trying to farm Lilith for gear; I have never seen any groups for Normal difficulty. Groups want super elite or very well-geared players for VD or no group at all.

Going forward, I would like to see the fights better balanced for Normal difficulty or middle-of-the-road players wanting to team up. The gimmicks of the fights seem a bit out of proportion to their corresponding difficulty levels.

[Alhanelem]

Banning anyone who speaks out against you.

Stay classy Square.
You can be critical but civilized at the same time, you know.

[Alhanelem]

I appreciate your effort to release a new battlefield and tweak some classic armor and weapons. Thank you.

At the same time, the HTBF content seems to have two extremes for the majority of players: 1) solo forever on Easy, Very Easy for drops or 2) party up and do Difficult or Very Difficult.

For example, in my time trying to farm Lilith for gear; I have never seen any groups for Normal difficulty. Groups want super elite or very well-geared players for VD or no group at all.

Going forward, I would like to see the fights better balanced for Normal difficulty or middle-of-the-road players wanting to team up. The gimmicks of the fights seem a bit out of proportion to their corresponding difficulty levels.This isn't a defect of the fight, it's a defect of player mentality. People want the best drop rates, and if they can do VD, they'll do VD. I don't think tweaking the difference in difficulty between the difficulty levels is going to change this.

[Kalimairo]

RANT

i don't understand how they cant give us new Content without Recolor mobs Recolor Loot Recolor Boss. its been 8 years and everything is Recolored, an example You can just make Seekers Void watch with new models isn't that easy to do? i am so confused with the state of the game, its been 6 years there is no actual real content.


Please give us a god damn 75 Server, i am tired of Retail not getting updated while your other baby game getting updated every fucking day (14), Ontop of that the game no longer runs on for Ps2/ Xbox 360 you said it would make it better to build patches for the game Where is it WHERE IS THE NEW CONTENT, holy F all that can be done is just farm
, AMBUSCADE AMBUSCADE
AMBUSCADE AMBUSCADE jesus. Even the ambuscade System is not helping new players, V2 points is garbage, and no 1 wants to do the new ambuscade 1, ontop of it being Stale




, You could At least Customize the arena every month make it look Fresh MAYBE INVEST IN THIS GAME you are pushing it it's been 8 years without an expansion and we are getting tired of that. THIS GAME IS A GEM ALSO HOW IS IT NOT IN SWITCH do you understand how many people would buy this game if it was on switch than maybe you can invest in the game give us new zones?

You have abyssea System that you can abuse and add zones into TOAU and SOA but your not abusing it why all the new Endgame systems caters 6 boxing, and 1 ambuscade month is like a free weapon or 2 of REMA FOR BOX'RS,, Just add a new Abyssea and let us use trusts infused with atma's to fuck the people who are runing the game the past 5 years? a new path for empy's etc? new armor and stuff? that will make most unviable jobs even more viable for that content its so simple and perfect yet its not in the game are you trying to kill the game feeding on the top 5%? its nearley pointless for me to help others with Ambu which is 50% of the game right now.

You can atleast do a daily Quest that gives u the same points as V1 VD that can be done 5 times a day to help new players THROUGH v2, just why none of that in the game? :mad: why is the best healer behind a monthly objective pay wall like FFXIV tomestones!!!!?. there is no actual casual content outside of ambu the bar is too high for new or casual players , the community is split by 3, people who play private servers because its 75, People who don't want to play a 75 Era and don't want to play private servers, and us retail players, its just that simple, i could care less for a 75 server but its a plus it would be fun when the game is in life support like this just simple things like this would give the game more life....

[Tharly]

Please give us a god damn 75 Server, i am tired of Retail not getting updated while your other baby game getting updated every fucking day (14),

So you are mad that there isn't a 75 server, which would also imply losing all updates/content/QOL changes from the last decade or so and in the same breath complaining there aren't enough updates. Classy.

[Kalimairo]

no just read what i typed? i know its a mess i am not native to english but my points are valid

[Alhanelem]

no just read what i typed? i know its a mess i am not native to english but my points are valid
The reality is a "75 server" wouldn't do for FFXI what classic servers have done for one or two other games. It won't restore the old community and it won't undo our existing memories and experiences, and those were the things that made what in all actuality was a severe grindfest more fun than it would have been without those things.

That coupled with the fact that you can use level sync or dont complete the lv80 limit break quest to stick yourself at level 75 and find other like-minded people to play with. If as many people want this as you believe want it, it should not be hard to find those like minded people.

No one's holding a gun to your head and saying you have to do lv99 content.

Personally, I would never want to do that, at least, not without all the QOL stuff we have in the game now and the dialed back grind.

[Krogoth]

Since this adjustment by itself would only become a burden for players, we will also increase the chances of obtaining certain rewards (particularly equipment) across all difficulty levels.

There are multiple ways to "increase the drop rate," and they're not all the same.

Update: Squeenix picked the worst case scenario. No drop slots were added, the distribution of drops within the slot was not addressed, and only the chance of filling the drop slot increased. Which only matters on lower difficulty. The odds of getting armor and weapons on D or VD is literally unchanged because the drop slots were guaranteed, and E is now almost as good as D. So much for increasing chances across all difficulty levels.

So yeah. I guess we're fixing congestion by encouraging 1 party to break up into 6 soloers who fight slower, but don't have to lot against each other.

[Alhanelem]

So yeah. I guess we're fixing congestion by encouraging 1 party to break up into 6 soloers who fight slower, but don't have to lot against each other. or destroy the easy fight faster as a group.

Anyone who goes in solo knows they're causing grief for others, and why not make something as fast easy as possible by doing it with a group if you can?

[Voidstorm]

or destroy the easy fight faster as a group.

Anyone who goes in solo knows they're causing grief for others, and why not make something as fast easy as possible by doing it with a group if you can?
because that's 1 drop slot entering as a group, or 6 drop slots as a group entering solo.

If everyone and their grandma needs dagger/cloak/both, may as well split up until several members' needs don't overlap and can team up w/o competing for the drops.

[Alhanelem]

because that's 1 drop slot entering as a group, or 6 drop slots as a group entering solo.

If everyone and their grandma needs dagger/cloak/both, may as well split up until several members' needs don't overlap and can team up w/o competing for the drops.
Yes, but you're clearing faster, thus there's more opportunities for the drop. Getting the merit points is relatively trivial, so I still see it as saved time.

[Krogoth]

Yes, but you're clearing faster, thus there's more opportunities for the drop. Getting the merit points is relatively trivial, so I still see it as saved time.

On one hand, is a party of 6 going to kill literally 6 times faster? That's not likely, especially given the time spent buffing inside.

On the other hand, strictly solo is likely not exactly optimal either. There's probably some middle ground for maximum server-wide drops per unit of arena time.

On the gripping hand, there is an analogous problem for maximizing total vehicle miles on a given stretch of road per unit time. It turns out 55mph is the optimal solution, but how many drivers are willing to stick to it? In the end, people are going to do what is most convenient to them in the moment. If there are party members close at hand, they may choose to invite them. But if not, there's less incentive to go look for them than there was before the update.

[Alhanelem]

My EV actually seems to be more efficient at lower speeds, but for some reason nobody else seems to like that. :p

[Krogoth]

Oh yeah, the minimum fuel (or fuel equivalent) velocity is different from the maximum packing velocity. 45mph, iirc?

[Voidstorm]

idk, i always keep my EV on 'chill' mode and barely ever even bring it up over 70mph.
When I floor the accelerator the kw/mi balloons of course, and it also starts to get worse when I get on an interstate. Rest of the time my EV doesn't seem to care too much if I go fast or slow.

What forum is this again, Tesla?

[Alhanelem]

idk, i always keep my EV on 'chill' mode and barely ever even bring it up over 70mph.
When I floor the accelerator the kw/mi balloons of course, and it also starts to get worse when I get on an interstate. Rest of the time my EV doesn't seem to care too much if I go fast or slow.

What forum is this again, Tesla?
2016 kia soul EV here

Kinda off topic but nice to meet some ppl on the same page. :p