Psion
04-20-2011, 05:28 PM
Greetings Dev team and translators!
I've noticed that despite how popular one particular thread is in it's own puppetmaster forum, it has gotten no notice from the mods, despite how long puppetmasters all over vanadiel have been requesting the changes suggested in it. So I thought I'd put a thread up linking to the original and repost the information in here, where it should actually get some notice. Without further ado, here is the original post, made by Anza, a highly respected member of the Pup community:
Dear FFXI development team,
Puppetmasters appreciate the increased attention given to our job since the beginning of 2010, after several years of feeling that PUP was a neglected job. Because we feel that the current development team is paying more attention to the players in general, and the PUP job in particular, we would like to bring to the attention of the dev team several key issues that the English-speaking PUP community has struggled with for a long time. These are not just my concerns, but an attempt to clearly voice some longstanding issues from many in the community. Your consideration of these issues would be greatly appreciated.
(1) Mage puppet AI.
Likely the most widespread complaint within the English-speaking PUP community. Despite the former development team suggesting that all was working as intended, the PUP community generally dislikes the Soulsoother head's priorities forcing a status removal spell over a cure whenever the master or puppet has a status effect (no way to force a Cure VI over Blindna when the master is at 50hp is not very helpful!). Many monsters that seem perfectly in line with what a PUP with adequate control over the automaton could solo become highly impractical, and usefulness of the automaton in parties is also compromised.
In addition, the high automaton HP/MP thresholds for Spiritreaver head choosing to cast Drain/Aspir is a problem for PUPs using that head. This becomes a very big issue when fighting targets where Aspir or Drain are ineffective - the puppet will cast Aspir and get a tiny amount of MP back, meaning that as soon as it can cast Aspir again it will do so and waste a cast. PUPs need a way to override this behavior and force the automaton to not cast Drain/Aspir (just as we have a way to avoid Absorb-INT, simply don't use a Dark Maneuver)
How about some AI modifications? Some possible suggestions:
a)Maneuvers.
Make Soulsoother head only use -na spells on the master and itself when a water maneuver is active (the same current prerequisite for the automaton to use those spells on other party members). For Spiritreaver, only allow Drain/Aspir when a dark maneuver is active (same condition as Absorb-INT).
b) Attachments.
Make an attachment modify the normal priorities. For example, with Damage Gauge equipped, Soulsoother will prioritize Cure spells above all else. Or make this an opportunity for Tactical Processor to do something useful.
c) Adjustments to default priorities.
Simply change the default priorities. Make the automaton always choose a cure above a -na spell, or adjust the threshold for casting Aspir or Drain (lower automaton MP/HP level).
d) Separate spell timers for Cure/-na.
Instead of operating on the shared spell timer for all spells, break status removal spells out on their own unique timer. This way the puppet can still cast Blindna, Paralyna, Poisona, etc., but that cast will not mean a long wait for the spell recast timer for an opportunity to cast that needed Cure.
There is a possible argument that the PUP can take steps to avoid the pitfalls of quirky automaton AI priorities. For example, to avoid the vicious cycle of automaton focusing only on status removal, the master can stay out of range of nasty enemy abilities as well as keep puppet at a distance. However, forcing the player to take these drastic actions to avoid AI priorities that seem non-sensible does seem to be an unnecessary limitation on the players.
(2) Weaponskill priority.
The system by which automaton weaponskills are triggered by a particular dominant maneuver is becoming cumbersome, and will become even more of a burden with new automaton weaponskills that PUPs hope are coming in the journey to level 99. In addition, some weaponskills simply get in the way (mage puppets with high HP, like Soulsoother which cures itself, become useless with vital light maneuvers since they will use the undesirable Magic Mortar). PUPs need to hold back and use otherwise useless dark maneuvers to trigger desired WS on Valoredge (Cannibal Blade) and Sharpshot (Armor Piercer) frames. Perhaps it is time to adjust this aspect of the job.
One suggestion is a simple menu - perhaps accessed through an NPC similar to the Rendezvous Point menu (changing Fellowship NPC job, use of area of effect WS, etc.) This NPC could allow the PUP to program the automaton to choose appropriate WS for the master's liking, or even set "trigger" maneuvers as chosen by the player for each automaton WS. This "Automaton Adjuster" NPC could even be expanded to address the spellcasting AI issues described above.
(3) Tactical Processor.
The PUP community has done testing for years and cannot figure out what this attachment does. Can the dev team explain this item, or adjust it? The community believes this item to either be not working as intended, have such an unusual use that it has not been discovered, or that the attachment is simply useless/nearly useless. Perhaps a change could be made to give this attachment more utility.
We appreciate your attention and hope to continue a more open dialogue with the dev team.
Sincerely,
The PUPs of Vana'diel
And there you have it. These are not new issues. Indeed, every single pup I have talked to has complained especially about the AI of the automaton choosing weak weaponskills and especially choosing to use aspir as black mage and -na spells over healing spells as white mage. The most popular way to solve this is via a gambit system like FFXII's, but that might not be possible with FFXI. If it isn't, the second most popular option is changing the priorities of the automaton and splitting the magic recast timer to the different schools of magic of enfeebling/dark magic, healing, and nuking.
And to add to the list of gripes, I have my own: maneuvers are just too darn short. There's no reason for them to last for only 1 minute. Why not make it 3, or even 5 minute duration? It won't make reduces overload gear obsolete: We still would want AF gloves for the stat boosts, and we would still have times we use lots of maneuvers in a short time, such as with spiritreaver and ice maker usage. It would however, stop the white mages from whining about how I'm constantly blinking in and out of view, and also save my hands from cramping constantly trying to keep maneuvers up. :s Perhaps you could simply make the duration of maneuvers increase the higher level your pup is.
At any rate, here is the original thread with comments from others, in case the mods would like to translate the comments by other players as well:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/698-LETTER-TO-THE-DEVELOPERS-FROM-THE-PUPPETMASTERS-OF-VANA-DIEL
Please mods, please communicate this issue to the dev team! The puppetmasters of Vana'diel have griped about the AI of soulsoother and spiritreaver ever since they came out and we have been ignored every single time. Please save us from the evil clutches of being blindna'd when we are one hit away from croaking and desperately need a cure VI!
I've noticed that despite how popular one particular thread is in it's own puppetmaster forum, it has gotten no notice from the mods, despite how long puppetmasters all over vanadiel have been requesting the changes suggested in it. So I thought I'd put a thread up linking to the original and repost the information in here, where it should actually get some notice. Without further ado, here is the original post, made by Anza, a highly respected member of the Pup community:
Dear FFXI development team,
Puppetmasters appreciate the increased attention given to our job since the beginning of 2010, after several years of feeling that PUP was a neglected job. Because we feel that the current development team is paying more attention to the players in general, and the PUP job in particular, we would like to bring to the attention of the dev team several key issues that the English-speaking PUP community has struggled with for a long time. These are not just my concerns, but an attempt to clearly voice some longstanding issues from many in the community. Your consideration of these issues would be greatly appreciated.
(1) Mage puppet AI.
Likely the most widespread complaint within the English-speaking PUP community. Despite the former development team suggesting that all was working as intended, the PUP community generally dislikes the Soulsoother head's priorities forcing a status removal spell over a cure whenever the master or puppet has a status effect (no way to force a Cure VI over Blindna when the master is at 50hp is not very helpful!). Many monsters that seem perfectly in line with what a PUP with adequate control over the automaton could solo become highly impractical, and usefulness of the automaton in parties is also compromised.
In addition, the high automaton HP/MP thresholds for Spiritreaver head choosing to cast Drain/Aspir is a problem for PUPs using that head. This becomes a very big issue when fighting targets where Aspir or Drain are ineffective - the puppet will cast Aspir and get a tiny amount of MP back, meaning that as soon as it can cast Aspir again it will do so and waste a cast. PUPs need a way to override this behavior and force the automaton to not cast Drain/Aspir (just as we have a way to avoid Absorb-INT, simply don't use a Dark Maneuver)
How about some AI modifications? Some possible suggestions:
a)Maneuvers.
Make Soulsoother head only use -na spells on the master and itself when a water maneuver is active (the same current prerequisite for the automaton to use those spells on other party members). For Spiritreaver, only allow Drain/Aspir when a dark maneuver is active (same condition as Absorb-INT).
b) Attachments.
Make an attachment modify the normal priorities. For example, with Damage Gauge equipped, Soulsoother will prioritize Cure spells above all else. Or make this an opportunity for Tactical Processor to do something useful.
c) Adjustments to default priorities.
Simply change the default priorities. Make the automaton always choose a cure above a -na spell, or adjust the threshold for casting Aspir or Drain (lower automaton MP/HP level).
d) Separate spell timers for Cure/-na.
Instead of operating on the shared spell timer for all spells, break status removal spells out on their own unique timer. This way the puppet can still cast Blindna, Paralyna, Poisona, etc., but that cast will not mean a long wait for the spell recast timer for an opportunity to cast that needed Cure.
There is a possible argument that the PUP can take steps to avoid the pitfalls of quirky automaton AI priorities. For example, to avoid the vicious cycle of automaton focusing only on status removal, the master can stay out of range of nasty enemy abilities as well as keep puppet at a distance. However, forcing the player to take these drastic actions to avoid AI priorities that seem non-sensible does seem to be an unnecessary limitation on the players.
(2) Weaponskill priority.
The system by which automaton weaponskills are triggered by a particular dominant maneuver is becoming cumbersome, and will become even more of a burden with new automaton weaponskills that PUPs hope are coming in the journey to level 99. In addition, some weaponskills simply get in the way (mage puppets with high HP, like Soulsoother which cures itself, become useless with vital light maneuvers since they will use the undesirable Magic Mortar). PUPs need to hold back and use otherwise useless dark maneuvers to trigger desired WS on Valoredge (Cannibal Blade) and Sharpshot (Armor Piercer) frames. Perhaps it is time to adjust this aspect of the job.
One suggestion is a simple menu - perhaps accessed through an NPC similar to the Rendezvous Point menu (changing Fellowship NPC job, use of area of effect WS, etc.) This NPC could allow the PUP to program the automaton to choose appropriate WS for the master's liking, or even set "trigger" maneuvers as chosen by the player for each automaton WS. This "Automaton Adjuster" NPC could even be expanded to address the spellcasting AI issues described above.
(3) Tactical Processor.
The PUP community has done testing for years and cannot figure out what this attachment does. Can the dev team explain this item, or adjust it? The community believes this item to either be not working as intended, have such an unusual use that it has not been discovered, or that the attachment is simply useless/nearly useless. Perhaps a change could be made to give this attachment more utility.
We appreciate your attention and hope to continue a more open dialogue with the dev team.
Sincerely,
The PUPs of Vana'diel
And there you have it. These are not new issues. Indeed, every single pup I have talked to has complained especially about the AI of the automaton choosing weak weaponskills and especially choosing to use aspir as black mage and -na spells over healing spells as white mage. The most popular way to solve this is via a gambit system like FFXII's, but that might not be possible with FFXI. If it isn't, the second most popular option is changing the priorities of the automaton and splitting the magic recast timer to the different schools of magic of enfeebling/dark magic, healing, and nuking.
And to add to the list of gripes, I have my own: maneuvers are just too darn short. There's no reason for them to last for only 1 minute. Why not make it 3, or even 5 minute duration? It won't make reduces overload gear obsolete: We still would want AF gloves for the stat boosts, and we would still have times we use lots of maneuvers in a short time, such as with spiritreaver and ice maker usage. It would however, stop the white mages from whining about how I'm constantly blinking in and out of view, and also save my hands from cramping constantly trying to keep maneuvers up. :s Perhaps you could simply make the duration of maneuvers increase the higher level your pup is.
At any rate, here is the original thread with comments from others, in case the mods would like to translate the comments by other players as well:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/698-LETTER-TO-THE-DEVELOPERS-FROM-THE-PUPPETMASTERS-OF-VANA-DIEL
Please mods, please communicate this issue to the dev team! The puppetmasters of Vana'diel have griped about the AI of soulsoother and spiritreaver ever since they came out and we have been ignored every single time. Please save us from the evil clutches of being blindna'd when we are one hit away from croaking and desperately need a cure VI!