Black Belt items [dev1009]

[Dohati]

this seriously sucks. i was having no luck with getting a black belt already. now it has been made impossible without doing ksnm 99, which i really really did not want to do.

[Karbuncle]

I Don't wanna go through all the things i typed out, But I'll paraphrase.

get friends.

If you can get even 4 friends to help you, You can do the KSNM99 5 Times (you +4 of them).

KSNM99's drop BB Items, So while you build pops for the "NQ", you have a shot at your BB item.
**Also note, the SE update say "At least 1 will always drop" implying 100% chance of "upgrade", but also chance of more than 1 pop item per KSNM/Faf/beh/etc

So now you can pop Faf/etc 5 times back to back, and according to the notes, get 5 pops for King guy. then pop King guy 5 times back to back.

Do you see what I'm getting at >.>? basically with just you and 4 friends, you get 10 chances at a Black Belt item in 1 sitting. Its a lot better than it sounds, It just requires friends to help. Most people i know have been sitting on hundreds of kindred seals (because frankly most KSNM's suck for gil these days)... But if yours don't i can understand how upsetting it must be :|

[Greatguardian]

What he said ^.

For anyone who was using KS99s to get BB items in the first place, they basically gave you a "Second Chance" now. Each time you do a KS99, you also get a pop for Fafnir, which drops a pop for Nidhogg, which has some % chance at dropping a BB item.

In reality, this greatly increases the drop rate of BB items for players who do KS99s for them. The people who had their drop rates shot are the ones who were camping the HNMs for them, but I'm not sure how many people actually camp HNMs and don't have BBs at this point. For people unable to claim, this works out better anyways.

[Kari]

There's already multiple threads for this, lols.

And @Karbuncle, most people, including myself, are simply irritated that they attempted to fix a problem, but created a more common problem.
Getting outclaimed on NQs is something that eventually works itself out.
Gathering people to do KSNMs where you're likely the only one receiving anything worthwhile, is a bit more tedious.
It may be a less stupid system in general, but the idea still remains stupid.

[Karbuncle]

There's already multiple threads for this, lols.

And @Karbuncle, most people, including myself, are simply irritated that they attempted to fix a problem, but created a more common problem.
Getting outclaimed on NQs is something that eventually works itself out.
Gathering people to do KSNMs where you're likely the only one receiving anything worthwhile, is a bit more tedious.
It may be a less stupid system in general, but the idea still remains stupid.

Never said it was a perfect Solution, But its better than 21-24 hour NM. I may be in the minority, But I'm sitting on at least 5 KSNM99 orbs, and thats just me, not including friends :|

[Kari]

Never said it was a perfect Solution, But its better than 21-24 hour NM. I may be in the minority, But I'm sitting on at least 5 KSNM99 orbs, and thats just me, not including friends :|

My group has plenty of KSs, and plenty of time to do this. It's not about me wanting an easy mode, because for my group this is actually easier.
However, they intended to bring us a solution with this update, and while some things were solved, some problems still exist and more were also created.
Previously, a lucky MNK could get claim on Adamantoise, get the BB item and be done.
Now you're forced to do the annoying ass KS99, which is much MUCH more annoying to kill, and obviously impossible for a MNK to solo. It'd be pretty difficult to get a PUG for this too, as I'm pretty sure most would simply fail, and those that would succeed would probably not want to do this at all, since there's not much in it for them other than helping someone they probably don't know.

So yeah, technically this is easier for anyone who has friends and KSs, however it's simply a stupid idea for a solution.
I wouldn't be against it at all if this was the original system, but it's not, it's a terrible attempt to fix something.

[Karbuncle]

Again, its not a perfect Solution, But I think Its enough that I'll have a Black Belt within a ~month of the update :X

So its a positive for me, But i can understand how its not for everyone. absolutely.

[Henihhi]

This just cracks me up to no end. SE gave all the "newer" mnks exactly what they asked for, along with people in the general threads about making xp outside abyssea useful again, and y'all are still crying.You wanted hnms claims, more hq claims, you got em. You seriously didn't expect SE to just hand this to you did you? My god they hand out +1/2 like candy now and going to make that even easier. Quit complaining and enjoy the fact that instead of 1 shot per day at the item you can now have many shots at it.

[Gokku]

i cant wait for all the people to wipe to nid / KB and let me claim it. as a monk with black belt this update made me laugh so hard. its like kids begging SE for a cake and when the cake isnt the flavor they want they still complain.

[Kari]

This just cracks me up to no end. SE gave all the "newer" mnks exactly what they asked for, along with people in the general threads about making xp outside abyssea useful again, and y'all are still crying.You wanted hnms claims, more hq claims, you got em. You seriously didn't expect SE to just hand this to you did you? My god they hand out +1/2 like candy now and going to make that even easier. Quit complaining and enjoy the fact that instead of 1 shot per day at the item you can now have many shots at it.

Say what? They gave us nothing of what we asked for. We never asked for this to be easier. This has nothing to do with XPing outside of Abyssea either.
You don't show the slightest bit of intelligence with this post.
They made an annoying method of gaining a job specific item, a different type of annoying.
When they told us they were going to solve the problems with HNMs, we expected lower respawn timers [as 24 hours for these things is simply ridiculous, this is the only game I can think of with such respawn times on anything.], not this.
Sure, it doesn't harm me in the slightest. This doesn't mean SE made a smart move.

[Dfoley]

The way I read it:

regular King have 0 % chance to drop BB items

KSNM will drop 1-??? items to pop regular king, and 10% chance to drop BB item
Regular king has a chance to drop item to spawn HQ king, 0% chance to drop BB item
HQ has a chance to drop BB item.

In summary, ksnm and regular king no longer give ANY shot at BB item, how is that better at all?

[Gokku]

The way I read it:

KSNM 99 and regular King have 0 % chance to drop BB items

KSNM will drop 1-??? items to pop regular king
Regular king has a chance to drop item to spawn HQ king
HQ has a chance to drop BB item.

In summary, ksnm and regular king no longer give ANY shot at BB item, Everything went better then expected!
edited for accuracy!

[Dfoley]

Was just saying its not a second chance when the second mob has a 0% chance to drop.

[Gokku]

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/d5e8e536c5714894ffea56675abd4392.jpg

[Dfoley]

I will continue using twilight belt and out DDing bbelt monks cause I have more DA and still cap haste, so meh, take your trolling elsewhere gokku

[Myrna]

They never mentioned anything about KS99 not dropping BB item anymore, just NQ is now 0% and HQ is no longer 100%.
So this is the progression I see now:
Farm up a 99.
Get friends, do KS99 have a chance at BB item and *at least* one NQ pop item.
Kill NQ, have a chance at HQ pop.
Kill HQ, have another chance at BB item.

Considering it would probably take as long for me to farm up a KS99 as camping one of those suckers, I don't really see the problem.

[Gokku]

I will continue using twilight belt and out DDing bbelt monks cause I have more DA and still cap haste, so meh, take your trolling elsewhere gokku

i dare you to come to carbuncle server if you think you could hold a candle to my monk id wipe the floor with your piss poor monk. that being said lol twilight~

[Greatguardian]

They never mentioned anything about KS99 not dropping BB item anymore, just NQ is now 0% and HQ is no longer 100%.
So this is the progression I see now:
Farm up a 99.
Get friends, do KS99 have a chance at BB item and *at least* one NQ pop item.
Kill NQ, have a chance at HQ pop.
Kill HQ, have another chance at BB item.

Considering it would probably take as long for me to farm up a KS99 as camping one of those suckers, I don't really see the problem.

This^.

KS99s can drop the BB item. They're not removing that. Also, @foley, wear a bloody Brown Belt. Twilight is absolute garbage.

[Dfoley]

i dare you to come to carbuncle server if you think you could hold a candle to my monk id wipe the floor with your piss poor monk. that being said lol twilight~


Think what you will gokku just makes you that much more ignorant.

Enjoy being surpassed by the next generation of monks who realized the error of your flawed ways

[Juilan]

on siren shihei are 100k for 12 bags, getting me to help with a KS99 for NPCable drops is going to be as hard as me subbing ninja for something i'm not getting anything out of

its not that i don't like helping, but its expensive when i need to blink tank

[Greatguardian]

Think what you will gokku just makes you that much more ignorant.

Enjoy being surpassed by the next generation of monks who realized the error of your flawed ways

I'm honestly confused as to what you could possibly think Twilight has over any real Mnk belt. Since when is 23% Gear Haste better than 26%? Or are you capping haste by giving up AF3+2 feet and full set bonus too?

[Barber]

I'm not seeing how the old system was good for anyone that still needs black belt. The claims of 'a monk could get lucky and claim adamantoise and potentially be done with 1/3rd of it' are not looking at total time spent.

Its a 6% drop rate. The average camp is 90 minutes. That means if you get every single claim you will spend an average of 25 hours getting your egg. But you won't claim 100% of them. You might claim 50%. You will also lose some due to it popping during sleep/school/work times. More likely you are looking at 50+ hours doing the nq. HQ, of course, skews that, but then again the hq can't be soloed so you will have to convince people to come stand around and do nothing with you for a chance to fight it.....assuming it pops in the 6ish hours people aren't asleep/at work.


Under the new system you get two chances to get it, the KS fight and the HQ. Nobody knows how the loot distribution will be, but even if its 33% from the HQ you are looking at a 50% chance to get it from that cycle.


And the absolute best thing about this is for those willing to buy the items. The items are not for sale on my server at any price because the only people camping are other monks. After all, there is no other reason to kill faf/turtle. But now instead of buying for huge prices (the same guy has been offering 5M on Siren for Beard for 2 months) you can buy KS orbs off every Tom, Dick, and Harry. Just take your emp farming group and spend a night doing them. You spent 500k buying Jaculus Wings for your monk body +2 items, spend 500K for a ks99 orb from someone and get your black belt.

[Denabond]

As a mnk who already has a Black Belt, i'd say this is ALOT better then before. No more competing with HNMlss. No more nights where you have to wake up in the middle of the night to cheak that window. People can complain all they want about pop NMs, at least now you guys can slowly work your way up to getting Black Belt, or spam it like crazy with all the KSs some people have horded over the years. And to the people who complain about not being able to solo them, seriously go get some friends.

@Gokku Just because you have a Black Belt doesn't mean you should act like an ass to everyone who still doesn't have it. Of course with the way you post, you will probably just ignore this post, or say I'm a gimp mnk or something.

@Dfoley Saying you will surpass Gokku is fine and all (honestly who cares if you beat him or not), but saying that while using Twilight Belt doesn't help you.....

[Artisan]

Now this is pure speculation, but couldn't there be a chance that the "new" items that drop off the KS99s to pop the NQs actually be the BB items?

That could explain why the NQs would no longer drop the BB items and why the HQs have a decreased chance. That would also mean at least 1 BB item would be dropped with possibilities of multiple drops off KS99. Now that would make my MNK happy! But what are the odds of that really happening?

[Denabond]

Now this is pure speculation, but couldn't there be a chance that the "new" items that drop off the KS99s to pop the NQs actually be the BB items?

That could explain why the NQs would no longer drop the BB items and why the HQs have a decreased chance. That would also mean at least 1 BB item would be dropped with possibilities of multiple drops off KS99. Now that would make my MNK happy! But what are the odds of that really happening?
KS99 already had a chance to drop BB items. This basically gives them a 2nd chance at it.

[Artisan]

KS99 already had a chance to drop BB items. This basically gives them a 2nd chance at it.

I know, but the point I was making was that there might be a possibility that the new pop items for the NQs could be the actual BB items, hence changing their drop rate in a KS99 from very poor to 100% with chance for multiples. That would be ideal.

[Denabond]

I know, but the point I was making was that there might be a possibility that the new pop items for the NQs could be the actual BB items, hence changing their drop rate in a KS99 from very poor to 100% with chance for multiples. That would be ideal.
I highly doubt its the BB items themselves since that would mean if the kings dropped the item, you can technically pop the NQs again for another HQ. And why would you want to go for a HQ when you can just simply use the 2nd drop give to someone else who wants a BB item?

[Lynchilles]

I will continue using twilight belt and out DDing bbelt monks cause I have more DA and still cap haste, so meh, take your trolling elsewhere gokku

HHHAAAHHAAHAHAHAHAAAAHAAHAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHHH

Your tears are delicious indeed!!!! You are a funny little nitwit.

ENJOY YOUR AWESOME TWILIGHT BELT HOMIE!

Seriously, this is effing hilarious.

[Phafi]

I'm honestly confused as to what you could possibly think Twilight has over any real Mnk belt. Since when is 23% Gear Haste better than 26%? Or are you capping haste by giving up AF3+2 feet and full set bonus too?

I might do 23% haste on ninja just to 5/5 af3+2 and then still cap attack speed with dual wield gear.

[Dohati]

yes, this is very good for people who already were doing ksnm99. for those who wanted to camp the NMs though, they're just screwed.

[Gokku]

Think what you will gokku just makes you that much more ignorant.

Enjoy being surpassed by the next generation of monks who realized the error of your flawed ways

your just another krystal , another player who talks shit thinking there hot but are scared to face an old school monk. here ill make a better challenge ill monk/nin you can sub war and ill still out dmg you. the only monk to have gotten close to me was an ls member * they still lost * was a monk/war vs me on monk/nin who has an exact carbon copy of all my gear sets only diff being i had vere they had rev+2. so man up or shut up your no monk wearing a laughable tp set

[Manicora]

lol i love this thread #1 Ks99 can drop BB item
#2 NQ will no longer drop BB item
#3 HQ is no longer 100% chance, however will still drop BB item so ok, lets add this up.
as it is now. 3 ways to get a BB item from each Type of NM will take 21-24 hours for 1 and 3-10 days for another..
As it is going to be: Farm KS seals = 5-10+ hours if you have that time to spare, Nq will not drop BB item but can drop HQ trig: HQ had a chance to drop BB item so... adding it up you can farm KS seals untill your rich and be able to spam NM's for BB and then spam for HQ in the same amount of time it takes for 1 NQ NM to pop and u can spam that as many times as u have ppl with trig.. You in my opinion your chance to get a BB jumped up more than 50%in the time it takes to camp them now. GL Failmonk

[Dutton]

Your tears are delicious <3

[darkShirou]

They never confirmed that BB items would continue to drop from KS99's either, which has not stopped SE in the past (several times at that) from going ahead and removing items from drop pools that follow similar progressions.

[darkShirou]

lol i love this thread #1 Ks99 can drop BB item
#2 NQ will no longer drop BB item
#3 HQ is no longer 100% chance, however will still drop BB item so ok, lets add this up.
as it is now. 3 ways to get a BB item from each Type of NM will take 21-24 hours for 1 and 3-10 days for another..
As it is going to be: Farm KS seals = 5-10+ hours if you have that time to spare, Nq will not drop BB item but can drop HQ trig: HQ had a chance to drop BB item so... adding it up you can farm KS seals untill your rich and be able to spam NM's for BB and then spam for HQ in the same amount of time it takes for 1 NQ NM to pop and u can spam that as many times as u have ppl with trig.. You in my opinion your chance to get a BB jumped up more than 50%in the time it takes to camp them now. GL Failmonk

Incorrect sir, the only thing that's going to happen is "HERP ALL YOUR SEALS ARE BELONG TO BEHEMOTH", since nobody is going to waste orbs on anything but shots at D.Rings. This pretty much eliminates monks from the equation altogether. The incentive to do only Behemoth KS99's now FAR OUTWEIGHS any reason to do the other 2 KS99's. This is a giant, retarded kick in the balls to monks. You can kiss your shot at BB goodbye now.

[Cetra]

how's about this.. you have 1 month, if you don't like the change, go and get your items beforehand.
I know for a fact it is not hard, especially now.

Complaining is silly, go out and get what you need.

[darkShirou]

how's about this.. you have 1 month, if you don't like the change, go and get your items beforehand.
I know for a fact it is not hard, especially now.

Complaining is silly, go out and get what you need.

Get off your high-horse and take a hike, the only reason anyone has to voice their hatred for this change is the frustration we go through trying to do it for years. Your definition of "hard" doesn't matter, because it's harder now for a different, and more frustrating reason, than before.

[Cetra]

My post is not meant to be any form of hatred at all, far from it.
I have helped many friends get BB's, usually takes no more then a day or two.

The biggest problem with these items is people assume they are hard to get (which was true at 75, but not at 90), or don't ask for help.

[Lynchilles]

Get off your high-horse and take a hike, the only reason anyone has to voice their hatred for this change is the frustration we go through trying to do it for years. Your definition of "hard" doesn't matter, because it's harder now for a different, and more frustrating reason, than before.

If you've been trying to get a Black Belt for literally years and still do not have it, then you don't deserve a Black Belt. It was NEVER THAT HARD to get a Black Belt. It still WILL NOT BE HARD to get a Black Belt.

If you can't get the seals and friends to do it yourself, just remember "Money talks and bullshit walks."

[Greatguardian]

I might do 23% haste on ninja just to 5/5 af3+2 and then still cap attack speed with dual wield gear.

This is not Ninja.

This.

Is.

MONK!

[Cream_Soda]

They never confirmed that BB items would continue to drop from KS99's either, which has not stopped SE in the past (several times at that) from going ahead and removing items from drop pools that follow similar progressions.
0 reasonable expectation for it to be removed from ks99 unless its stated it will be, especially when they specifically stated the said item's adjusted rates on both nq and hq nms.

Is it possible, yes? Is it likely, no. again, 0 reasonable expectation.

[Swords]

I'd like to make some points that play to both sides who claim it's easy/hard to get the BB items.

A. I understand the frustrations on camping NQ/HQ kings, NQ has abysmal drop rates and HQ are usually overcamped and unsoloable.
B. Some servers still have HNM bot shells that religiously camp them like on Asura, and even then you have competition from other MNK's who may be equally or more skilled at claiming/soloing than you.
C. It CAN be hard to round up even close friends for 3 hour periods, especially when so many people have the "Whats in it for me" attitude.
D. KS99 while not difficult, are more difficult than the NQ/HQ Kings so they do require some effort.
F. Some folks just get lucky with drops, I lucked out and got my BB items in a week just out of random chance. I've got friends who have retired MNK until they do get their BB that they've been working on since 05.
G. KS99 has always had an abysmal drop rate like NQ Kings, and your usually limited on how many runs you can do in a period of time.

Every server has a different view, difficulties, and problems with the Kings. Maybe the Kings are always up on low population servers, maybe not. Maybe the Kings are still heavily camped on their sever, maybe not. People should'nt look at every server having the same situation as their own, which is why I think so many are at odds with each other on this issue.

Unless they're just trolls of course.

[ShadowHeart]

they took multiple ways of being able to obtain BB into about 1/3 of the way considering after u do get the pop u still don't have 100% drop anymore from the kings lol ... its what i call bend me over there... gee i hope i got a kiss after that...

[Deadvinta]

In all honesty this will make the Black Belt easier to get in the long run. The only Belt that's an issue is the Brown Belt. Since people do summoner idling at the bottom of Ordelle's Caves to kill Morbolger.

Hell, I'm currently waiting down there myself, and I notice a Monk WITH A BROWN BELT camping it. He probably needs to do the quest so he can move on to the Black Belt quest, but I need the actual belt. I think Morbolger should be one they give a ??? pop to, or at least change it to a lottery spawn along the same lines as Nue and Deadly Dodo.

[Greatguardian]

You can get those items from KSNM30s already if the NM is overcamped.

[Valefor4life]

Really how fn hard is it to find 5-6 BLM to come do KS99. I did a shout KS99 about a month ago and well got like 7-9 ended run with 5-6 and still destroyed the turtle and wyrm. From those runs wyrm was like 25-30% drop rate, 40-50% for the turtle. You'd be surprise how many ppl are willing to come to sell their egg or just wanna come for speed belt. Lead follow or GTFO the way.

[Peldin]

Lead follow or GTFO the way.
QFT

***apparently these forums require a minimum of 10 characters per post, this message is to fulfill that BS requirement***

[MarkovChain]

I Don't wanna go through all the things i typed out, But I'll paraphrase.

get friends.

If you can get even 4 friends to help you, You can do the KSNM99 5 Times (you +4 of them).


The question that comes to my mind is : why didn't your friends give you their KS99 yet, because the system is already in place or alternatively, and why didn't your friends already give you 3 millions to buy the drops from campers already.

[Greatguardian]

The question that comes to my mind is : why didn't your friends give you their KS99 yet, because the system is already in place or alternatively, and why didn't your friends already give you 3 millions to buy the drops from campers already.

Funny story. I already have, and one of my friends already did (spent my orbs helping people with their BBs, and a friend bought me a KB Tongue years ago).

[MarkovChain]

So you agree that the friend argument is irrelevant. If you don't have it yet, either you are completely new or your friends didn't want to give you their orbs. As such they are unlikely to do so in the future. If anything you are losing the chance at some friends leaning you some money to buy off campers.

[Karbuncle]

So you agree that the friend argument is irrelevant. If you don't have it yet, either you are completely new or your friends didn't want to give you their orbs. As such they are unlikely to do so in the future. If anything you are losing the chance at some friends leaning you some money to buy off campers.

Not entirely no. A friend of mine in game recently sent me a tell saying and i quote, "with this new update on the HNMs, would you be interested in doing those KSNM99s?"

I told him yes, We're not starting a sorta-Static for the KSNMs, the NMs are a different story.

Some of them want items from the HNMs, meaning they weren't doing KSNM99s before, and i never asked them too. because before this update there wasn't a lot to gain from it so i Didn't impose on them.

After this update theres a lot more to gain from the KSNM99s, so i don't feel as guilty asking them.

thats why.

I don't have said Item cause I don't enjoy Imposing on my friends when they wouldn't really gain anything. Its not that they wouldn't help, I just wouldn't ask. now with this theres a lot more reward in it for them, so i don't feel as guilty asking.

[MarkovChain]

A lot more gain ? really ? What ? The only item are BB, the other are junk except defending ring which is too low droprate. to even care about if you plan to start from Kindred seals at least. Your firned will not have more interest now than after the VU.

[Neisan_Quetz]

ITT: Friends don't help friends unless they benefit.

[MarkovChain]

ITT : friends don't help and you for KS99 now but they will help you next week.

[Neisan_Quetz]

If your friends didn't help you with stuff pre update then you need to reevaluate who your friends are.

[Swords]

A lot more gain ? really ? What ? The only item are BB, the other are junk except defending ring which is too low droprate. to even care about if you plan to start from Kindred seals at least. Your firned will not have more interest now than after the VU.

Not entirely true, KSNM 99 still holds a chance for Swift Belts, Strider Boots, and Kriegsbeil, and a few pieces of Abj. and gear are still useful from Kings, couple that with the update that says were supposed to be able to augment some endgame gear through synergy stands to give some reasonable gains. I won't hold my breath on that note though, because were not entirely sure of all the gear that will be upgradeable or if more will be to come.

[Karbuncle]

A lot more gain ? really ? What ? The only item are BB, the other are junk except defending ring which is too low droprate. to even care about if you plan to start from Kindred seals at least. Your firned will not have more interest now than after the VU.

N.Legs are still great Armor, Some of them want Dalmatica just for having it, I know a few want Blood-Gear (I think thats mask from behemoth) for completion value (they own 4/5 Blood missing head). Originally the KSNM99s just offered a small shot at a BB Item, and a small shot at gil, then the trip ends there. I didn't want to impose on my friends, its not that they wouldn't help, its just that in asking them to help me for little to no gain i would feel bad. They would have helped me no benefit at all, They do it all the time (Hence: Helping me kill Glavoid fo Ukonvasara (We're helping each other build Empyreans :3)

Basically now though, We can do the KSNM for the small shot at gil/BB Item, and then we can kill the HNMs, some of them oddly like fighting those things, even if they don't need the drops. A few of them would like Ridills Just as toys, So I really shouldn't have said "Many more reason" as a universal thing, More towards specifically my friends.

But theres the thing, Friends never needed a reason to help, But a lot of people were probably like me. Didn't want to impose on them, but now theres a little more to gain, they might feel less bad about it.

I don't recall once saying this update will fix everyones problems everywhere though, I stand by my point. Friends make the game worth playing anyway. Would be a very sad sad empty meaningless game to me If i couldn't log on and see all those familiar names to talk too.

[MarkovChain]

If your friends didn't help you with stuff pre update then you need to reevaluate who your friends are.

Which is what I said, please read. Karbuncle said himself there would more reasons to get your friends to do KS99, as opposed to today, to which I asked him why his friends didn't help him yet. Try to follow.


Not entirely true, KSNM 99 still holds a chance for Swift Belts, Strider Boots, and Kriegsbeil, and a few pieces of Abj. and gear are still useful from Kings, couple that with the update that says were supposed to be able to augment some endgame gear through synergy stands to give some reasonable gains. I won't hold my breath on that note though, because were not entirely sure of all the gear that will be upgradeable or if more will be to come.

SE already annouced that they would suck ( The way they sait it is "not as good as AF3+2"). It fits synergy pretty well btw. I don't expect anything from this beside time sink for bullcrap reward. If you don't know what I mean check the evolith system.

[Cream_Soda]

Brew less, Pchan

[MarkovChain]

N.Legs are still great Armor

How likely is it to be obsolete soonish? This is assuming it's actually good, probably for fail jobs.



, Some of them want Dalmatica just for having it,

It sucks now, noone wants it. Having the "set" offers nothing, -50 HP etc.



I know a few want Blood-Gear (I think thats mask from behemoth) for completion value (they own 4/5 Blood missing head).

same as above except they already sucked at 75.




gil


I had to double check : nope. Speed belt ? Only useful to RDM and PLD. PLD is not a job. RDm can cap haste without it easily etc ¿Probably pld too.

[Karbuncle]

How likely is it to be obsolete soonish? This is assuming it's actually good, probably for fail jobs.

About as likely as Black belt to be obsoleted.



It sucks now, noone wants it. Having the "set" offers nothing, -50 HP etc.

When did i said it didn't suck? hmmm oh right, never. I said they wanted it "For shits and giggles"


same as above except they already sucked at 75.

See above statement.


I had to double check : nope. Speed belt ? Only useful to RDM and PLD. PLD is not a job. RDm can cap haste without it easily etc ¿Probably pld too.

oh, yah you're right. No one buys Speed Belt anymore. and i could have sworn is aid "A shot at some gil" I don't recall claiming an exorbitant amount.

I know its hard to be anything less than a cynical ass when you've been banned or hated in every single FFXI forum in existence, But you should try. Unless of course you're just attempting to add this board as another feather in your cap.

I never said every item on the list they wanted was useful, Just because you can't find a reason to want something just to want it, rather it be town gear or not, does not mean as my friends they would like those things for fun.

OH, And not surprisingly, You seem to conveniently leave out this part, which would dispel your entire stupid break-down.


Basically now though, We can do the KSNM for the small shot at gil/BB Item, and then we can kill the HNMs, some of them oddly like fighting those things, even if they don't need the drops. A few of them would like Ridills Just as toys, So I really shouldn't have said "Many more reason" as a universal thing, More towards specifically my friends.

Oh look, I bolded the part where I said "My original statement could stand some revisions, here i'll correct it". Maybe you can actually read it this time.

In case you can't understand what that says. it says "Yah, Looking back I can see this won't give everyone a reason, I guess i was speaking more from personal experiience, I can see how my original statement wouldn't apply to everyone, thanks"

[MarkovChain]

"i entirely agree with you that KS99 have mostly crap reward" would have been enough but as usual with you its hard to admit that you are wrong. And no black belt is unlikely to become obsolete because of the monk belt quests system : the next one, if any, will require bb or it won't exist.

[Corwin]

I don't know which player is harder to deal with, Pchan or Feiwong. Probably the latter.

[Octaviane]

I will admit I was more than a little apprehensive about the new system for obtaining BB items. After some careful thought though, and after reading some of the more constructive posts, I am a bit more hopeful about finishing mine.

SE has confirmed that BB items will still drop from KS99's and/or a pop item for Land Kings. If I read correctly that means 2 chances at a BB item. One from the KS and if no BB item drops a pop item will which may or may not pop a HQ King. As yet, we don't know the adjusted drop rate from HQ's, nor do we know the frequency of HQ pops vs NQ. SE has also said pop items will be tradeable.

Personally, I have absolutely no problem farming KS, in Cape Teriggan my KS drop rate is probably 2-1 over BS. In lower xp areas, yes the drop rate is lower, but still not impossible to get. It takes almost no time to do a couple FoV pages a day even in the higher level areas, in fact a lot less time than is spent in Abyssea.

For those who complain that they have no KS or desire to farm them, the pop items are tradeable, meaning you can buy them. I have no doubt there will be price gouging by FFXI "entrepeneurs"...........(oh how nice it would be if we could make money like that in real life). :)

For those who say "I have no gil". As many have said, you can make gil from Abyssea cruor by selling the Aurore, Teal and Perle gear, and, there are still good items to farm in regular areas if you know where to go, that will net you some pretty nice gil. All it takes is a bit of time and effort.

Instead of standing around afk in Port Jeuno, your time could be better spent is what I am saying, just my opinion.

It is true that not many do KS99's anymore, and it is true that in general, people will only help if it benefits them in some way. KS99 reward items used to be quite valuable, no longer the case, but still better than nothing and no worse than potential drops from any other BCNM/KSNM/ISNM with a couple of noteable exceptions. Friends are the key here, don't be afraid to ask for help doing them, it might take a bit, but keep trying. You can do PUG's, not something I go for, but you might wind up with a good group.

Good luck to all the old school monks who have strived for their BB and resisted the urge to pay millions of gil to those "entrepeneurial" (sp) factions of FFXI. :)

[Sama]

I was thinking shorten the pop time for FAB is the way to go; now SE invented a solution which may have cause another... good lord...

[Gokku]

stop beating this dead horse

[LordChocoSlime]

Prior to hearing about this, I feared that getting those Black Belt items would be improbable at best. Now, I might actually be able to get those items now. Granted, I'm not too keen on the decrease in the drop rates for those items, but I do like that the NMs that drop them will be a bit easier to spawn soon. Guess I better rack up on Kindred Seals.

[Henihhi]

See Lord Choco has the right idea. Black belt never came from abyssea. Y'all need to stop whining to have it handed to you like everything in abyssea. It is not honestly that hard to get. I play MNK once a friggin year- and yes i suck at it- and i have one. If y'all spent less time whining and working for one you might get one.SE has just opened the flood gates for all the bandwagoners, stop crying and take advantage.

[Dart]

I think that my brain is going to explode...

[Suirieko]

At first I disagreed with the system, but now I actually like the direction with the system and the greater good out of it.

Most people couldn't get the black belt because there's always an HNM LS or two that's pretty much preventing them from getting it. This is the solution to that problem, if anything, this SHOULD have been done long ago.

This system is also win/win for everyone who has never participated in HNM camping for various reasons. It's always full of drama and people felt it wasn't worth it. It's the reason why Odin was an alternative to getting the abjuration gears for most people in the first place.

People will have two shot to get black belt items, the KS99 fight itself, and of course the king fight, not only that, but people, most likely friends, will also potentially benefit from this as well by getting the items they couldn't get before, notably Ridill and the Abjuration gears, and of course, everyone's favourite: D.Ring.

KS99 Shouldn't take more than a few friends (5 or 6) to do, since they are not capped. I agree the biggest problem is the fact that it still takes 99 KSes, but it's moot, and something people could work out for each other in the long run.

Other thing to keep in mind: Originally these HNMs were designed to be killed only once a day, and the kings only once a week. Now they can be damn near literally spammed. So if you look at it that way, you'd probably agree with the lowered drop rate.

Like I said, at first I disagreed with the system, but I did not look at the bigger picture here:

The HNM will no longer be fought only once a day, but can be literally spammed many, many times a day much like spamming NMs say, Byakko, and Kirin himself. In other words, Black belt and the abjurations are much easier to get than most people would think. If you ask me, this is a great trade off.


SE has just opened the flood gates for all the bandwagoners, stop crying and take advantage.This ^. Salvage initially made monk popular job for it since it once contained the best of the best gear you could get in the game. Abyssea greatly made monk an even more popular job than ever. When I came back from taking a break, I'm completely astounded at the number of monk I came across. Monks are literally a dime a dozen now.

Of course, I didn't join the bandwagon for abyssea, I leveled monk back in 2008 for the LS I was in, just so I could do salvage, and not use my most demanded job: Thief >.> Sadly that backfired, but I digress.

I have a pretty good feeling that once the update come, the KS99 will be INCREDIBLY crowded, for the first few weeks, which is the main reason why I rushed to get black belt before the update, that and I wanted to try to get my black belt done the "old fashioned way" while I still could.

[Dohati]

seems like little to no people are acknowledging that the NQ HNMs don't drop black belt items period now. and the HQ will only drop it 10% of the time. so it's almost like they completed deleted the earth HNMs as far as black belt is concerned.

[Greatguardian]

Who ever said anything as ridiculous as 10%? Lower than 100% is lower than 100%. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Cyprias]

seems like little to no people are acknowledging that the NQ HNMs don't drop black belt items period now. and the HQ will only drop it 10% of the time. so it's almost like they completed deleted the earth HNMs as far as black belt is concerned.

Falsifying statistics without even experiencing the change. This here is why we use our brains and not our intuitions before we say/type something. KS99 is an absolute joke with Lv90's. I really don't see the problem in this except the occasional crowding in Behemoth's Dominion for a Defending Ring.

[ShadowHeart]

lol its se we are talking about 10% does sound kind of high more like JEJ charm drop@ 1%

[Greatguardian]

lol its se we are talking about 10% does sound kind of high more like JEJ charm drop@ 1%

lol its not the same dev team that made JEJ.

[Cyprias]

lol its se we are talking about 10% does sound kind of high more like JEJ charm drop@ 1%

To add on further, they decreased a 100% drop rate from a HQ NM. Why would they lower it so much from a 100% drop from the HQ and taking away the 5~10% drop (I forgot the real value) from the NQ's? From this reasoning, I can estimate the drop rate to be approximately 50~70%. If it's anywhere lower than that, it's because of how many people have KS99 Orbs, which if 6 people have orbs, that's 6 Fafnir to be had according to their update post. Way more influx of that NM than it used to be I'm sure.

[Lotmorning]

i cant wait for all the people to wipe to nid / KB and let me claim it. as a monk with black belt this update made me laugh so hard. its like kids begging SE for a cake and when the cake isnt the flavor they want they still complain.
Couldn't agree more with this statement. If the belt drop % was still 100% on niddy I would be willing to say there be only 1% of people crying of this just because they want something to cry about. The fact that you pop Kings from KS99 is amazing beyond belief. I lived was in kings zones for ever years ago camping these and was proud when I became 3/3. I even feel tad more pride about having this item now that see how SE making it more manageable for others.

[Gokku]

has anyone actually gotten a KING pop item yet? just did 5 ksnm 99s got 1 BB 5 pops for behemoth currently 0/4 on KB item dropping with th10 on all kills

[Greatguardian]

KSNMs don't drop King pops. You get the Behemoth pops then kill Behemoth and he drops KB pops.

[Gokku]

KSNMs don't drop King pops. You get the Behemoth pops then kill Behemoth and he drops KB pops.

yes i know we did 99 got the pop and went and did behemoth for the KB item 0/4 all with th 10 i just wanna know if anyones has managed to get the KB nid or aspid pop item off an NQ kill

[Greatguardian]

yes i know we did 99 got the pop and went and did behemoth for the KB item 0/4 all with th 10 i just wanna know if anyones has managed to get the KB nid or aspid pop item off an NQ kill

Oh okay, sorry. I misread your post, it sounded like you just did the KS99s and only got NQ pops.

[Gokku]

new update just did 4 KSNM 99 Faffy side 1/4 on beard from that currently 0/4 on faffy dropping anything 2 th 7 1 th 8 1 th 10. this is bull lol

[MarkovChain]

I think this is were I say "I said it". We had an update, now people have LESS chance for BB than they had before. The KS99 chance are about the same, King chance are ridiculously low, at least you could camp or buy them previously. Hope youy have 1k KS stockpiled.

[Mojo]

I approached this update with an open mind as the drop rates mostly determined how the changes would affect the difficulty in obtaining Black Belt and other HQHNM drops. Since the update, I've fought twenty The Horns of War KSNMs. Out of the twenty Behemoths that I popped (from the Beastly Shanks that were obtained), only one Savory Shank dropped. All Behemoth fights had at least TH8 proc'd on them, often TH9 or higher (up to TH11.) The King Behemoth that I popped did drop a Behemoth's Tongue, although this really isn't enough to say anything about the drop rate from King Behemoth or other HQHNMs. My anecdotal observations of what others have reported puts it at somewhere around a 50% drop rate.

For those curious about what my 1/20 drop rate means, here's some confidence intervals for you.


Confidence Drop Rate Interval
99% 0.03%~31.71%
95% 0.13%~24.87%
90% 0.26%~21.61%
85% 0.39%~19.59%
80% 0.53%~18.10%
75% 0.67%~16.90%
70% 0.81%~15.89%
65% 0.96%~15.02%
60% 1.11%~14.24%
55% 1.27%~13.54%
50% 1.43%~12.90%

If you're unfamiliar with statistics, I'll explain what these numbers mean. The first column, the confidence level, is a measurement of how sure you are that the true drop rate is within some interval. So the first row says we can be 99% sure that, based on my data alone, the true drop rate on Savory Shank is between 0.03% and 31.71%.

One thing worth noting is that because we do not have an accurate way of assessing the effects of Treasure Hunter on drop rates, I ignored any affect that it might have on the drops. This means that if Treasure Hunter does increase the drop rate on Savory Shank, then the true drop rate on Savory Shank will be even lower than these confidence intervals predict. Either way, if you assume that Treasure Hunter doesn't lower the drop rate on Savory Shank (seems like a safe assumption to me), then you can still assume that the base drop rates will be no higher than what these confidence intervals predict.

I'll do a little bit more math to maybe put how crappy this really is in perspective. I'll give the drop rate the benefit of the doubt and chalk up my observed 1/20 drop rate to extremely bad luck and assume a 1/5 drop rate on Savory Shank (note: if the drop rate was truly 1/5, then bad luck on my level would only occur 5.76% of the time, so it probably isn't even 1/5!) Over a hundred KS99 runs have led me to believe that the drop rate on Black Belt items from the KSNM is about 1/5. If you assume that the anecdotal 1/2 drop rate for HQHNM dropping Black Belt items is also accurate, you're left with a single Themis Orb producing at least one Black Belt item 28% of the time (as opposed to 20% of the time that was before.)

In regards to prepatch HNM camping. There wasn't much competition on Adamantoise at all and it was something that most players could solo. Aspi was a somewhat fun fight if it was up unclaimed. You could just ask your friends to come help you kill it. People did camp Behemoth for the chance at King Behemoth, although mostly it was for the chance at Defending Ring and you could usually offer to buy the Behemoth Tongue if it dropped. Fafnir was still lightly camped, usually by players trying to get Ridill or just to have fun killing it. You could often buy it from them too. I actually walked into Dragon's Aery one day to see Nidhogg unclaimed.

My impressions thus far are not great. They removed a method to obtain Black Belt that was very convenient for a large group of players. It's been replaced by a system that mostly tantalizes players even more so than getting the drop from KS99. The only 'upside' is that the new method is tied into KS99 making the whole process more linear. I wouldn't say it's more convenient though, if my ambition were to acquire a Black Belt I think I would much prefer the old way over this.

I don't want to turn this into a sob story, but perhaps put this into perspective with what Monks will be facing these days. The changes have more or less brought out the selfishness of the average player. Everyone wants the Black Belt items even if they don't have Monk leveled. They also want the HNM pop item too, so the whole double chance thing really only applies to your orb. The only way I was even able to acquire twenty Beastly Shanks so quickly was to duo the KSNM (Monk + White Mage => 3 minute Chevlnik kill) while paying anybody who used an orb 600K so I could get the Beastly Shank (they kept all other nine drops, including any Black Belt items.) So I have shelled out 12M gil thus far to pop one King Behemoth.

You might be one of the lucky ones who has friends willing to use their orbs. This seems unlikely though. I have several groups of friends and are all either out of seals or won't sell me theirs because they all want a Black Belt or other HQHNM items. Either way, relying on friends for their orbs is by no means practical for obtaining a Black Belt. It's unrealistic given the state of the game. The overwhelming majority of players are simply going to have to go on KS99 runs and buy them from other people going on the runs. You'll probably end up paying more than you did prepatch now too. If you're opposed to buying them for some reason, then you're more screwed than you were before the patch because you can't camp HNM like before.

I plan on continuing to do the Horns of War KS99 until I either run out of gil or until I get a Defending Ring. I'll post my results on Savory Shank drop rates here. I won't be collecting data from anybody else because I think it introduces reporting bias (people tend to report extraordinary good or bad drop rates more often than others.)

Either way, if Square Enix ever intended to ease the requirements to obtain Black Belt or reduce the absurdity of kings in some way, this is far from it. If there's anything that should be complained about in recent patches, it's the awful HQHNM pop item drop rates.

[MarkovChain]

So you have 1 drop 19 no-drops and make statistics on that ? Go away.

[Mojo]

Even a 0/1 drop rate would be enough to make meaningful statistics (i.e. it's not 100%.) Everything I wrote was in the context of what twenty data points in an assumed binomial distribution can accurately describe. If you've got a problem with it, you might want to pick up a math book and educate yourself because there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way I analyzed it.

[MarkovChain]

Did KS99 because the game is so boring and a friend wanted N head. Wyrm KS99 dropped its beard, a Fafnir pop, Fafnir dropped N head, and a Nidhogg pop. Nidhogg dropped its beard and A body. 2 beard for 99 seal. Too bad I don't need them.

[Raksha]

1/8 behemoth tongue, 1/8 KB pop (all with TH9-11) (haven't popped KB yet)
1/10 Wyrm Beard, 1/8 Nidhogg pop, 0/8 ridill, Nidhogg only dropped dalmatica body.

Shitty drop rate is shitty.

[Peldin]

Go away.

Did KS99 because the game is so boring
Your first post was not just ignorant, but rude as well. I can understand it though. I would certainly be grumpy too if I was paying 13+ bucks a month to bore myself =P

[danz]

this seriously sucks. i was having no luck with getting a black belt already. now it has been made impossible without doing ksnm 99, which i really really did not want to do.

this is EXACTLY what i had in mind.

i mean. i was never really in a extreme event oriented linkshell or never had the desire to. and was saving gil to pay a linkshell for these items. took a small break. and come back after an update or 2, level up. earn some gil. have enough to buy an item.

do a quick shout. and to my surprise somebody pointed out. its all changed. i do some research and now...


well. not to happy about it.

something that was already hard to get from years ago. SE just made harder even though levels are getting higher

linkshells that do those KS99s become more rare-er so. yea. thanks SE for making it nearly impossible to get. even for those who saved gil for years.

[danz]

Quit complaining and enjoy the fact that instead of 1 shot per day at the item you can now have many shots at it.

there was always many shots at it. just nobody wanted to do any other KS99 other than early bird, and its still like this., finding people for KS99s just sucks.

make the rewards worthwhile for the people not wanting BB and maybe more people will be willing to help a MNK.

[Greatguardian]

Most all KS99 can be duo'd... they are nowhere near difficult. Just try them if you don't believe me. 15 levels means a lot. RDM+BLM+MNK took out Wyrm in like 5 minutes tops when I was messing around with it a while back.

[Vazerus]

Wyrm and Behemoth are easy; Turtle not so much :(.

[Peldin]

Most all KS99 can be duo'd
Yeah, try turtle with a duo. See if you can get it lower than 90% {Good Luck!}

[Karbuncle]

Yeah, try turtle with a duo. See if you can get it lower than 90% {Good Luck!}


Most all KS99 can be duo'd

Thats probably why he used the word "Most" implying "Not all". :\

Turtle is a pain in the ass but i think 3-4 GREAT geared BLMS could do it. i'd go 4 to be safe, i did it with ~5/6 Pick up players who were (frankly) mostly gimp as sin, and we managed fine.

So i imagine 4 Really well geared BLMS could destroy it, throw in a BRD or RDM for good measure (Refresh) and you're golden.

[Gokku]

Seirous tips / updates for people looking to get black belts
1 . Bring 2 thfs and have them as the only DD's on the NQ mobs to build TH * using this method we went 2/2 aspid pop items and 3/4 nid pop items*
2. for HQ the drop rate with TH10 is high but it can still NOT drop *just had aspid drop nothing*

[Anza]

make the rewards worthwhile for the people not wanting BB and maybe more people will be willing to help a MNK.

Have you seen the bazaar prices on the kings pop items that are 100% drop from the KSNMs? That's one worthwhile reason for people to help. Adamantoise pop is going for something like 1.5mil on my server. And if someone wants to risk using their pop item to try to get an HQ pop, those are selling for downright obscene prices.

I completed my BB, all three items from the new system (egg and beard from KSNMs, tongue from KB that a friend popped). I didn't pay for any of my items, got em from drops. Even made some money off the pop item that I sold, obtained in the turtle KSNM where I got my egg to make me 3/3. I dreaded the new changes at first too, but it's not impossible.

It's a little harder to outright buy the items like you used to be able to from HNMLS, but at least popping the NQ kings is something within reach of a small group now instead of needing to be in an HNMLS or being at their mercy to buy their drops.

[Qkan]

Hoping to go through some KS99s soon and only worried about Turtle. What's a safe estimate of people to take and recommended jobs? I'd guess 5-6 with maybe a THF tank, WHM, BLM, BLM, BRD? If 6th, another BLM? How well would MNK perform over BLM? I'd be that guy and my BLM is only 78 with decent gear where my MNK is 90 in +2 and capped haste (Twilight+Fuma... and I know).

Jobs available for at least 5 people that would go (all jobs 90 unless otherwise specified)
1: MNK, BLM(78)
2: THF, PLD
3: BRD, WAR
4: BLM, SAM, DRG
5: WHM... yeah, he's stuck with that job.
6: Well, I don't have a 6th, but I'm sure I could find someone. Thinking BLM here.

[DebbieGibson]

need more blm to be safe. can do it with two blm but they need to be very well geared and you probably need to get lucky

[Karbuncle]

Hoping to go through some KS99s soon and only worried about Turtle. What's a safe estimate of people to take and recommended jobs? I'd guess 5-6 with maybe a THF tank, WHM, BLM, BLM, BRD? If 6th, another BLM? How well would MNK perform over BLM? I'd be that guy and my BLM is only 78 with decent gear where my MNK is 90 in +2 and capped haste (Twilight+Fuma... and I know).

Jobs available for at least 5 people that would go (all jobs 90 unless otherwise specified)
1: MNK, BLM(78)
2: THF, PLD
3: BRD, WAR
4: BLM, SAM, DRG
5: WHM... yeah, he's stuck with that job.
6: Well, I don't have a 6th, but I'm sure I could find someone. Thinking BLM here.

on turtle, Its more or less BLM burn, You can do it with or without skillchains (sometimes, with bad players, skillchains just complicate things, being to slow/etc). He regens incredibly quick inside his shell, and will need to be nuked out immediately, Unless you're very very very confident in your BLM's, I'd bring at least 4, this gives you "room for error" so to speak.

The jobs you have listed could not win the fight, only 2 BLM's, one of them 78, you would lose. even at level 90 his Defense inside his shell is phenomenal, MNK and WAR would not even scratch the performance of a BLM on this fight.

THF is pretty much useless for this fight, so is PLD, or any "Tank" for that matter as with all the nuking, One of the BLM's will likely end up "Tanking", and it can be Bound/Gravitied so having 1 RDM keep that up is ideal.

I made the mistake of shouting for ~4/5 BLMs and underestimating him, It was a bad idea, "its my 12.95" people generally are what make this fight harder than it should, to be safe, I recommend at least 7 if they're "Shout tier" players.

Edit: No offense intended to anyone here, of course.

[DebbieGibson]

I had a group with 7 blms fail because they were too uncoordinated.

[Karbuncle]

Yah, Thats a problem too. Luck of the draw with pick up groups. You could just bring 18 BLMS and even if they were full idiots theres no way you could lose. It would just explode.

[Greatguardian]

Yah, Thats a problem too. Luck of the draw with pick up groups. You could just bring 18 BLMS and even if they were full idiots theres no way you could lose. It would just explode.

You know as well as I do that they would find a way!