[Dev 1009] Force Pop HNM's FTW

[Flunklesnarkin]

[dev1009] New Trigger Conditions for Notorious Monsters

* [dev1009] New Trigger Conditions for Notorious Monsters

o Trigger conditions for following notorious monsters will be adjustedto spawn by trading specific items to the “???” in the respective area.

Fafnir / Nidhogg: Dragon’s Aery
Behemoth / King Behemoth: Behemoth’s Dominion
Adamantoise / Aspidochelone: Valley of Sorrows

- The ”???” will respawn a minute after the battle is over.
- The NM will despawn if unclaimed for 90 seconds at the spawned location.
- The feature wherein the level of these monsters will increase after battling them for a period of time will remain unchanged.

o How to obtain the trigger items:

Fafnir: Treasure from “Early Bird Catches the Wyrm”
Nidhogg: Treasure dropped by Fafnir
Behemoth: Treasure from “Horns of War”
King Behemoth: Treasure dropped by Behemoth
Adamantoise: Treasure from “The Hills are Alive”
Aspidochelone: Treasure dropped by Adamantoise

* At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle.

o The treasures dropped by the following notorious monsters will be adjusted as follows:

Fafnir : Wyrm Beard removed
Nidhogg : Drop rate of Wyrm Beard decreased
Behemoth : Behemoth Tongue removed
King Behemoth : Drop rate of Behemoth Tongue decreased
Adamantoise : Adamantoise Egg removed
Aspidochelone : Drop rate of Adamantoise Egg decreased

-----


I think this is a much needed update..


whether or not hnm's use to be challenging or fun is a moot point now..

they are super weak and its annoying having to camp NM's at all hours of the day for black belt items...

The decreased drop rate is also a good thing to keep the black belt semi rare...

Who knows maybe D-rings will become more common now too..


I just wish i hadn't blown all my kindred seals already trying to get black belt items.. would have been nice to try for a d-ring ^^


Hopefully they add an alternate way to spawn these NM's after a time when people have calmed down with spamming them...

Maybe let you get a free behemoth / adamantoise / fafnir trigger once a week/month like on an enm timer


Overall I very much look forward to this update ^^

[Zumi]

Inb4 people complain how they can't kill KS99 turtle for a shot at the egg for BB lol

[Tsuneo]

Honestly, I was all for forced pop, but the way this is setup seems terrible.

[Kari]

I for one think this is the worst thing they could possibly do.
The HNMs need to be less annoying to camp, not more annoying to pop.

Making them pop spawns and all is fine, however now you're REQUIRED to do the KS99, which is harder than the NQ spawns, to get a drop that may not be 100%, to pop the NQ version and get another drop, that may also not be 100%, to pop the HQ and hope for the BB item, which is assured to not be 100%.
Worst update that they've hit us with in a while.

[Greatguardian]

I think this is perfect. It's basically everything the Anti-Abyssea-Exp crowd has been asking for since these forums started. Want a reason for people to actually EXP outside Abyssea from 40-75? Make 3 Kings require Kindred Seals, which only drop off of Mobs from level 50-80.

Now no one can ever say that the Devs don't listen. They heard everyone's complaints loud and clear, and gave the players exactly what they asked for. Reap what you sow, etc~

[Maginmartin]

SE, have a rethink of this update, perhaps make HNMs more like ENMs? Time restrict the pop items per person to say once a week/2 weeks etc. Yes, then drop drop rates for the BB items, as LSs can fight the mobs that many more times.

But don't give us a pain in the arse method of obtaining a pop item.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I'm not too concerned with overcrowding myself..

The drops aren't that spectacular from ground kings anymore.. with the exception of D-ring >_>

They all die super fast also.. give it a month or two and people will burn up all their excess kindred seals.. then it wont be so bad...


It would be nice if there was an alternate means to get the black belt items besides the kindred seals ...

maybe an ENM or let you get a trigger for the NQ hnm's on an enm like timer.

[Runespider]

I for one think this is the worst thing they could possibly do.
The HNMs need to be less annoying to camp, not more annoying to pop.

You still camp them?

Looks good to me, the items they drop are still good and BB is still the best item for that slot. For how rare/good the items are anything else linked with a force pop system would of been stupid. Good addition imo, far more faf/nidd will still be killed than previously.

Everyone complained about easy mode, so you get what you asked for. Decent amount of effort and work for top tier items.


It would be nice if there was an alternate means to get the black belt items besides the kindred seals ...

Every player does not and has never had the right to obtain every item, Abyssea gave people the wrong idea here. If you can't do this open to all system why should they give a baby method, if anyone think this gear good enough to try to get them it's top tier and should be treated as such.

[Zumi]

KS99s were a joke of a fight at 75, they are stupidly easy now at lv 90. More like people don't want to farm mobs for KS cause they already used theirs seals.

[Kunihiro]

99 Kindred's Seals is a little extreme, especially since most of the gear dropped by these mobs are obsolete. For people who don't have thousand's of seals at their disposal, this method is popping is much slower than where it stands now.

[Pikel]

I'm actually interested in seeing how this works out the only way I can see this truely being a horrible horrible idea is if they make the spawn items ex.

[Runespider]

99 Kindred's Seals is a little extreme, especially since most of the gear dropped by these mobs are obsolete. For people who don't have thousand's of seals at their disposal, this method is popping is much slower than where it stands now.

For people unable to claim with bots this is far fairer and they might actually get to fight them, as for the gear being obsolete...if that were teh case nobody would care one way or the other. It simply isn't the case, a good portion of them are still desired.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I'm actually interested in seeing how this works out the only way I can see this truely being a horrible horrible idea is if they make the spawn items ex.

I didn't even think about that lol

If the spawn items are tradeable It wouldn't be so bad

[Linny]

Where is the probleme? to obtain the kindread seal? the drop rate of pop item is 100%. So when you do a ksnm, you get the item to pop the forced_pop nm, who will give you the item to King, with 0 concurrence or claim bot.

The ksnm was done for a alliance of 75's. So now, with more level and equipement, it should'nt be a problem.
And for BB items I hope the drop rate shoud be at least 10%. I'm not a monk, but I believe BB stat (STR+12, Haste+7,Subtle Blow+5, PDT-5%) require the time you will spend on it.

[Ravenmore]

Thing is nothing of value drops from KS99 except the BB items. IIRC most jobs can get a 7% haste belt so speed belt is for the most part a simple stop gap till bullwhip or twilight belt, and all the craft items rain out of gold boxs.

[Tsuneo]

For people unable to claim with bots this is far fairer and they might actually get to fight them, as for the gear being obsolete...if that were teh case nobody would care one way or the other. It simply isn't the case, a good portion of them are still desired.
The problem isn't about it being fair. Forced pops is a good idea, but making it linked to KSNM makes the whole thing terrible. At this point I'll just try to get my Adamantoise egg before update so I don't have to deal with this terrible system.

[Greatguardian]

What? Really? No one's super happy that there's a reason for people to EXP outside Abyssea from 40-75 again? What's going on? I thought it was like a supermajority of players that wanted some sort of added incentive to EXP normally. This is, like, as big an incentive as they could give.

[Henihhi]

I love this. All the people that cried omg bot and omg Black belt is sooooo hard are getting exactly what they asked for. Enjoy!

[Tsuneo]

What? Really? No one's super happy that there's a reason for people to EXP outside Abyssea from 40-75 again? What's going on? I thought it was like a supermajority of players that wanted some sort of added incentive to EXP normally. This is, like, as big an incentive as they could give.
Must be talking about those people who were mad that they couldn't leech.

[Flunklesnarkin]

KS99's are super weak.. I've already burned all my seals on them trying to get black belt items

like behemoth ks99 can be duoed / trioed easy

fafnir one is a little harder because of the need for magic damage but can still be done with 3 or 4

turtle idk never tried that one seriously lol.. went in and beat on it with a jugpet but it has lame regen.. doesn't seem to have much hp tho.. id imagine 3 or 4 blm's power nuking could make short work of it

[Tagrineth]

I for one think this is the worst thing they could possibly do.
The HNMs need to be less annoying to camp, not more annoying to pop.

Making them pop spawns and all is fine, however now you're REQUIRED to do the KS99, which is harder than the NQ spawns, to get a drop that may not be 100%, to pop the NQ version and get another drop, that may also not be 100%, to pop the HQ and hope for the BB item, which is assured to not be 100%.
Worst update that they've hit us with in a while.

lol I like how you blatantly didn't read the update, since you completely missed the individual line, separate from the rest, that outright says the pop item will ALWAYS drop.

Edit: it even says "at least" 1. Har har har.

[Greatguardian]

Must be talking about those people who were mad that they couldn't leech.

Naw son, I mean those 150+ Page threads about how Abyssea ruined the game and needs to be restricted to 75+ so that people would have to EXP outside again. I'm told that there are a huuuuge number of players who feel that way. But of course it would be silly to restrict paid content that was advertised as level 30 entry so SE just did the next best thing. Now, if you want black belts or D rings or King gear, you have to EXP the old fashioned way! Leechers can still leech, Real Hardcore Old School Legitimate Non-Cheating Champions of Justice can strut their stuff in Ebodies and Drings while we swoon~.

[Topdogg]

Wow look at all the people cry. I think this is great. Will open up more reasons to exp outside of abyssea for beastmen seals, Would recreate HNMLS's and would seperate the dedicated monks from the abyssea mnks. Good work DEVs!

[Starcade]

Please, please, please... Love of God, Love of God, Love of God...

Rare/Ex these items, they can't be sold, bazaared, or auctioned...

[Greatguardian]

Wow look at all the people cry. I think this is great. Will open up more reasons to exp outside of abyssea for beastmen seals, Would recreate HNMLS's and would seperate the dedicated monks from the abyssea mnks. Good work DEVs!

Right on, brother! This guy knows what I mean!

[Tsuneo]

Recreate HNMLS's for NMs that can be killed with a few people?

[Karbuncle]

Naw son, I mean those 150+ Page threads about how Abyssea ruined the game and needs to be restricted to 75+ so that people would have to EXP outside again. I'm told that there are a huuuuge number of players who feel that way. But of course it would be silly to restrict paid content that was advertised as level 30 entry so SE just did the next best thing. Now, if you want black belts or D rings or King gear, you have to EXP the old fashioned way! Leechers can still leech, Real Hardcore Old School Legitimate Non-Cheating Champions of Justice can strut their stuff in Ebodies and Drings while we swoon~.

Words cannot express the amount of Guy-Love felt in this post.

[Kunihiro]

For people unable to claim with bots this is far fairer and they might actually get to fight them, as for the gear being obsolete...if that were teh case nobody would care one way or the other. It simply isn't the case, a good portion of them are still desired.

Blame it on claim bots, it's what people do. I'm sure that every person that has gotten gear of HNMs simply botted. People got drops because they went and you could always out claim a bot. It always came down to luck.

[Starcade]

I for one think this is the worst thing they could possibly do.
The HNMs need to be less annoying to camp, not more annoying to pop.



Can't have one without the other -- especially with all the abusive cheaters out there.

[Runespider]

What? Really? No one's super happy that there's a reason for people to EXP outside Abyssea from 40-75 again? What's going on? I thought it was like a supermajority of players that wanted some sort of added incentive to EXP normally. This is, like, as big an incentive as they could give.

Just take all the overpowered gear and weapons they gave us all and go rape EP mobs in 3-6 person alliance and get lots of KS. Why link other activites to things if you don't want to? Fro everyone else being able to pop Faf/Nid etc just by doing FoV seems pretty good, especially since all these NMs/BCNM can be low manned.

Only problem I can see is the mass overcrowding at king camps now till update day lol

[Ravenmore]

Where is the probleme? to obtain the kindread seal? the drop rate of pop item is 100%. So when you do a ksnm, you get the item to pop the forced_pop nm, who will give you the item to King, with 0 concurrence or claim bot.

The ksnm was done for a alliance of 75's. So now, with more level and equipement, it should'nt be a problem.
And for BB items I hope the drop rate shoud be at least 10%. I'm not a monk, but I believe BB stat (STR+12, Haste+7,Subtle Blow+5, PDT-5%) require the time you will spend on it.

little correction its 12% haste 7 str

[Greatguardian]

Just take all the overpowered gear and weapons they gave us all and go rape EP mobs in 3-6 person alliance and get lots of KS. Why link other activites to things if you don't want to? Fro everyone else being able to pop Faf/Nid etc just by doing FoV seems pretty good, especially since all these NMs/BCNM can be low manned.

Only problem I can see is the mass overcrowding at king camps now till update day lol

Under optimum conditions, assuming 1 person is quartermastering Kindred Seals and absolutely 0 Beastman Seals drop, you can complete a KS99 Orb in 2 hours, 45 minutes. Assuming that there's a 1:1 ratio of BS to KS, that doubles to 5 hours, 30 minutes. Remove the "3-party Alliance" trick from the picture and it's tripled again to 16 hours, 30 minutes for a single orb straight farming solo.

You can't effectively spam farm when only 1 drops every 5 minutes. This is definitely focused around FoV and mid-game EXP parties.

[Zumi]

This is nothing compared to having to get up at stupid times waiting 3 hours to try and claim Fafnir, Aspi, KB. Getting 99 KS to get BB items is far less annoying then camping these days on end only to lose the claim most of the time.

[Yarly]

Please, please, please... Love of God, Love of God, Love of God...

Rare/Ex these items, they can't be sold, bazaared, or auctioned...

R/Ex is not synonymous with unsellable. But you're probably going to label people who sell r/ex drops cheaters or something, right?

[Kunihiro]

This is nothing compared to having to get up at stupid times waiting 3 hours to try and claim Fafnir, Aspi, KB. Getting 99 KS to get BB items is far less annoying then camping these days on end only to lose the claim most of the time.

You actually had to be there for a couple seconds, every 30 minutes.

[Rambus]

FTW? this system is horrible, first you have to get 99 KS, go to pop the NM and have a lesser drop rate for BB items???????????????/

this seems like a step back, not a step forward.


o How to obtain the trigger items:

Fafnir: Treasure from “Early Bird Catches the Wyrm”
Nidhogg: Treasure dropped by Fafnir
Behemoth: Treasure from “Horns of War”
King Behemoth: Treasure dropped by Behemoth
Adamantoise: Treasure from “The Hills are Alive”
Aspidochelone: Treasure dropped by Adamantoise

* At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle.

o The treasures dropped by the following notorious monsters will be adjusted as follows:

Fafnir : Wyrm Beard removed
Nidhogg : Drop rate of Wyrm Beard decreased
Behemoth : Behemoth Tongue removed
King Behemoth : Drop rate of Behemoth Tongue decreased
Adamantoise : Adamantoise Egg removed
Aspidochelone : Drop rate of Adamantoise Egg decreased

I think SE has lost thier mind I am shocked

[Krisan]

R/Ex is not synonymous with unsellable. But you're probably going to label people who sell r/ex drops cheaters or something, right?
Uh, name one EX item you can sell or trade? I don't know of any items labelled EX that can ever pass out of your characters hands, beyond that of vendoring it to an NPC at least.. (That's exactly what EX is - it stands for Exclusive, as in Exclusive to your possession.) There are non-ex items that have odd selling properties.. (Can't be vendored or AH'd, or even mailed.. but can be bazaared or traded. But that wasn't what Starcade was referring to or afraid of.)

Unless you mean "sell" by doing the run for someone, them paying you, and then allowing them to lot on it.. but I mean if you are, that's kinda retarded in how impractical it is for most people to setup.

[Karbuncle]

FTW? this system is horrible, first you have to get 99 KS, go to pop the NM and have a lesser drop rate for BB items???????????????/

this seems like a step back, not a step forward.

Are you referring to them removing BB drops from NQ's?
*Edit: Saw they decreased it for kings, Thats fuck-stupid.

Yah that was retarded. but from the way the update notes sound, Each KSNM/NM has a chance to drop more than one pop (Says "At least 1"). So we could go do a KSNM99, and get 2 pops for Fafnir, Kill faf and get 2 pops for Nid, multiplying your chances to pop him exponentially.

For those people without kindred seals when the update roles around, Its gunna suck. But you have about ~20 days to go farm some Kindred seals lol, Go Solo some Fields of Valor for a bit. Get some pops ready before the update :P


Uh, name one EX item you can sell or trade? I don't know of any items labelled EX that can ever pass out of your characters hands, beyond that of vendoring it to an NPC at least.. (That's exactly what EX is - it stands for Exclusive, as in Exclusive to your possession.) There are non-ex items that have odd selling properties.. (Can't be vendored or AH'd, or even mailed.. but can be bazaared or traded. But that wasn't what Starcade was referring to or afraid of.)

People sell EX items all the time. You buy the Lotting rights essentially.

For instance, Someone selling Byakko's Haidate, They'd kill the NM, if it drops, You pay them, Lot item.

[Tsuneo]

Uh, name one EX item you can sell or trade? I don't know of any items labelled EX that can ever pass out of your characters hands, beyond that of vendoring it to an NPC at least.. (That's exactly what EX is - it stands for Exclusive, as in Exclusive to your possession.) There are non-ex items that have odd selling properties.. (Can't be vendored or AH'd, or even mailed.. but can be bazaared or traded. But that wasn't what Starcade was referring to or afraid of.)
He was referring to buying a spot in a party to lot the item in the pool.

[Krisan]

People sell EX items all the time. You buy the Lotting rights essentially.

For instance, Someone selling Byakko's Haidate, They'd kill the NM, if it drops, You pay them, Lot item.
I edited my post to clarify this after posting - as it occurred to me what he probably meant by "sell" a second after I hit submit, apparently you replied just as I did that. XD

Yes I know, but this is pretty impractical for a lot of people. I think whether the items are EX or not is a valid concern. (I've little stake in this change myself, I'm mostly okay with it actually as a matter of fact, but clarity on stuff like this is nice for those that are concerned.)

[Greatguardian]

I do wonder if the pops will be made Rare. That would be interesting. It would certainly be easier if they were not.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Making the triggers rare/ex will just hinder people trying to acquire the items from the hnm's

All it will mean is when somebody is looking to buy an item.. they will have to drag along the seller... which will mean it sells for more.. because of the annoyance fee >:U

[Rambus]

Are you referring to them removing BB drops from NQ's?
*Edit: Saw they decreased it for kings, Thats fuck-stupid.

Yah that was retarded. but from the way the update notes sound, Each KSNM/NM has a chance to drop more than one pop (Says "At least 1"). So we could go do a KSNM99, and get 2 pops for Fafnir, Kill faf and get 2 pops for Nid, multiplying your chances to pop him exponentially.

For those people without kindred seals when the update roles around, Its gunna suck. But you have about ~20 days to go farm some Kindred seals lol, Go Solo some Fields of Valor for a bit. Get some pops ready before the update :P



People sell EX items all the time. You buy the Lotting rights essentially.

For instance, Someone selling Byakko's Haidate, They'd kill the NM, if it drops, You pay them, Lot item.

you have any idea how low drop rate is for egg already in the ksnm? no idea what it is like for NM then you tack on the time farming for KS ( i do not see meny of these in abyssea, where people only do events)

I have to say old way would give you a better chance of getting items then this way I really question if they play this game at all.

I have to say this update note has to be the most stupid one I seen yet.

[Runespider]

You guys realise they will use this system for the new HNM and crests right? XD

New BCNM with crests > force pop HNM.

[Rambus]

You guys realise they will use this system for the new HNM and crests right? XD

New BCNM with crests > force pop HNM.

did you read the BCNM names? those are 99 KS seals BCs not those.

[Karbuncle]

you have any idea how low drop rate is for egg already in the ksnm? no idea what it is like for NM then you tack on the time farming for KS ( i do not see meny of these in abyssea, where people only do events)

I have to say old way would give you a better chance of getting items then this way I really question if they play this game at all

Think you're being entirely too pessimistic. We don't know how much they decreased drop rate on the Kings. It could literally be ~20% less %, Still giving us a high high chance.

I don't deny this could have been handled much better, But in the end i think for the majority of players, it will turn out to be a positive.

Admittedly there will be several who are screwed by it... Like apparently you yourself, since you don't have any Kindred seals or friends at all. (apparently, Only basing this off you saying it would basically be impossible for you to get it now)

[Gotterdammerung]

i dont like it ><

I like the idea of a forced spawn but the removal of the BB items off of the KSNM and NQ fights means u basically have to kill 3 times the NMs b4 u get a chance at one of the only things that made the fight worth doing (theres a few other drops worth trying for but not many).


Leave the BB drops alone on the KSNM and NQ PLEASE. If u must lower the HQ boss's drop rate on it fine. But please dont completely butcher it either (30% not 5%)

[Rambus]

Think you're being entirely too pessimistic. We don't know how much they decreased drop rate on the Kings. It could literally be ~20% less %, Still giving us a high high chance.

I don't deny this could have been handled much better, But in the end i think for the majority of players, it will turn out to be a positive.

Admittedly there will be several who are screwed by it... Like apparently you yourself, since you don't have any Kindred seals or friends at all. (apparently, Only basing this off you saying it would basically be impossible for you to get it now)

It is SE, past track record + these notes = shit

I am up for changing this crap but this is very bad ....

[Karbuncle]

i dont like it ><

I like the idea of a forced spawn but the removal of the BB items off of the KSNM and NQ fights means u basically have to kill 3 times the NMs b4 u get a chance at one of the only things that made the fight worth doing (theres a few other drops worth trying for but not many).


Leave the BB drops alone on the KSNM and NQ PLEASE. If u must lower the HQ boss's drop rate on it fine. But please dont completely butcher it either (30% not 5%)

They never mentioned removing BB items from the KSNMs, Just the NQs (And reduced rate at HQ's)

I think Removing/Editing Drop rate on the BB items was stupid as hell, But we really won't know how horribly it was effected (for Kings) until the update.

So long as the kings Don't get the drop rate of the NQ's in terms of BB i think it'll even out. If they do... Well... Yah, This entire thing was screwed.

[Krisan]

then you tack on the time farming for KS
This is actually what concerns me about this change.. The rest I think I'm okay with. This though is kinda irritating, as something like 99 seals could take awhile to farm up.. which by itself wouldn't hurt as much except it's also couple with the lowered drop rate of the BB items. I sort of wish it were one or the other, both do seem kind of like a punch in the gut.

But.. the lowered droprate might not be as significant as we think.. And if that's the case, eh.

[Henihhi]

Lol- You guys got exactly what you asked for. Why are people crying now? You blew up these forums for reasons to exp outside abyssea, to change land HNM, to make black belt HNMs easier to claim. SE just gave you exactly what you wanted all rolled into one nice little bundle. So take your toons outside abyssea <like you made multiple threads for> farm your kses, and have fun spamming for hnm pops. <with shittier drop rates for BB lol> God i love SE!

[Chronofantasy]

Glad i never did KS99 for a long time. I still have a KS99 orb sitting in storage and 600+ KS so maybe I can try to get the BB items and possibly sell my orb pops or the pop items to those unfortunate souls who used up all their KSs.

[Runespider]

did you read the BCNM names? those are 99 KS seals BCs not those.

I'm saying they will make all new BCNM's that you enter with an orb given from collecting kindred crests which will them give you a pop item for the new HNM they showed. I know what this is for but don't you think they will use this same system on the new HNM when everyone was worried about botting and given they put a lot of effort into designing a new system?

[Karbuncle]

It is SE, past track record + these notes = shit

I am up for changing this crap but this is very bad ....

Again, i admit it could have been handled so so so so so much better. But I'll remain cautiously optimistic, until i see what the drop rate on BB items are like from the kings.

If its reduced Excessively, I'll probably join the "Fk everyone" group, then move on with my life as most of these NMs are worthless outside of BB Items.

[Karbuncle]

I'm saying they will make all new BCNM's that you enter with an orb given from collecting kindred crests which will them give you a pop item for the new HNM they showed. I know what this is for but don't you think they will use this same system on the new HNM when everyone was worried about botting and given they put a lot of effort into designing a new system?

They said the Pop item You'd get would be traded to an ??? in the zones they spawn.

I.E Get Fafnir's pop from KSNM99, go pop Fafnir in Dragon's Aery.

They aren't creating entirely new Systems for them. If that's what you're getting at :|

[Greatguardian]

It is SE, past track record + these notes = shit

I am up for changing this crap but this is very bad ....

Recent Track Record + These Notes = Final Fantasy XI Development Team actually listened to the Official Forums. Players will now have to choose between leeching in Abyssea, and EXP'ing normally to amass Kindred Seals for Kings. Don't tell me people are no longer in favor of buffing overworld EXP when it has side effects which make a portion of the game more tedious?

[Starcade]

R/Ex is not synonymous with unsellable. But you're probably going to label people who sell r/ex drops cheaters or something, right?

If the stuff is designed not to be saleable, yes -- as it controverts the intended use of the item.

[Rambus]

This is actually what concerns me about this change.. The rest I think I'm okay with. This though is kinda irritating, as something like 99 seals could take awhile to farm up.. which by itself wouldn't hurt as much except it's also couple with the lowered drop rate of the BB items. I sort of wish it were one or the other, both do seem kind of like a punch in the gut.

But.. the lowered droprate might not be as significant as we think.. And if that's the case, eh.

the egg in the KSNM is fucking shit, then it would be lower????????

the beard is who cares seems like it drops every other one, the egg is a fucking pita though.

I am not sure about tongue.

This is a bad system because of the 99 KS, if it was less time to compensate the lower drops i can see giving it a chance but this is a big NO! atm with how it is stated.

[Kensagaku]

i dont like it ><

I like the idea of a forced spawn but the removal of the BB items off of the KSNM and NQ fights means u basically have to kill 3 times the NMs b4 u get a chance at one of the only things that made the fight worth doing (theres a few other drops worth trying for but not many).


Leave the BB drops alone on the KSNM and NQ PLEASE. If u must lower the HQ boss's drop rate on it fine. But please dont completely butcher it either (30% not 5%)

I see nowhere on the development thread that they said they're removing BB items from the KSNM.

This aside, I don't see why people are so upset. You might actually have to put in a little work to get something. That's like... terrible, right? Plus this is probably an overall better chance in the long run. And I gotta agree with GG, this will definitely open up non-Abyssea XPing again!

[Gotterdammerung]

And for those who think they have escaped the bots finally. Im pretty sure a bot can be made to trade to the ??? (if one doesnt exist alredy)

[Krisan]

Players will now have to choose between leeching in Abyssea, and EXP'ing normally to amass Kindred Seals for Kings.
Never much considered it a choice myself, could never stand the idea of leeching in Abyssea.. Plus the world exp change was dramatic enough recently that I genuinely don't see the problem with doing it "the old way" anymore.. I have a lot to work on actually, as I was batshit enough to create a brand new character here recently to level. I imagine I'll probably have a nice little stash of seals by the time he catches up to my main.

[Runespider]

They aren't creating entirely new Systems for them. If that's what you're getting at :|

Yeah but it still took the devs days/weeks having long discussions to figure this system, so I'm pretty sure they will use it again for the new HNM.

For people complaining about removing them from NQ and the BCNM, they increased the level cap making all these fights weak as c**p, you think they should retain drops that used to take upto an alliance to kill for? Especially since they are still very much wanted gear.


And for those who think they have escaped the bots finally. Im pretty sure a bot can be made to trade to the ??? (if one doesnt exist alredy)

lolno, maybe for the first week or two this will be an issue but not after that lol

[Karbuncle]

the egg in the KSNM is fucking shit, then it would be lower????????

the beard is who cares seems like it drops every other one, the egg is a fucking pita though.

I am not sure about tongue.

This is a bad system because of the 99 KS, if it was less time to compensate the lower drops i can see giving it a chance but this is a big NO! atm with how it is stated.

They said nothing about lowering the drop rates for the KSNM's as far as i know, just for Kings and removed from NQs.

Over all i think the adjusting of BB item drop rate on NQ/Kings was retardedly back-peddling the entire idea of this update, But I don't think we can FULLY judge it until we know how bad the drop rate on the Kings were nerfed.

[Rambus]

I see nowhere on the development thread that they said they're removing BB items from the KSNM.

This aside, I don't see why people are so upset. You might actually have to put in a little work to get something. That's like... terrible, right? Plus this is probably an overall better chance in the long run. And I gotta agree with GG, this will definitely open up non-Abyssea XPing again!

you hever do the KSNMs? egg rarely drops, i think i used 3 ksnm orbs my self on it, helped a lot of other people in ls and i seen like 2 drop ever out of the 20-30 i did.

[Krisan]

the egg in the KSNM is fucking shit, then it would be lower????????

the beard is who cares seems like it drops every other one, the egg is a fucking pita though.

I am not sure about tongue.

This is a bad system because of the 99 KS, if it was less time to compensate the lower drops i can see giving it a chance but this is a big NO! atm with how it is stated.
Don't freak out so badly man, I was actually trying to validate your concerns there if you didn't notice. I just said that we don't know yet how much it was lowered - and that yea, if it is any kind of significant decrease then I agree with you completely. They're a low enough drop already, I've helped LS mates in the past with them.. it's painful stuff.

[Karbuncle]

you hever do the KSNMs? egg rarely drops, i think i used 3 ksnm orbs my self on it, helped a lot of other people in ls and i seen like 2 drop ever out of the 20-30 i did.

Yah, that pretty much falls in line with my assumption of 10% drop rate :P

[Greatguardian]

you hever do the KSNMs? egg rarely drops, i think i used 3 ksnm orbs my self on it, helped a lot of other people in ls and i seen like 2 drop ever out of the 20-30 i did.

Dude, you're really not reading this right. They are not lowering the drop rate inside the KSNM. It stays the same, only you also get a pop for the NQ turtle, which drops a pop for the HQ turtle, which can also drop Egg. This only lowers your chances of getting BB items if you camp HNMs, or buy the drops from the camped HNMs.

[Krisan]

They said nothing about lowering the drop rates for the KSNM's as far as i know, just for Kings and removed from NQs.

Over all i think the adjusting of BB item drop rate on NQ/Kings was retardedly back-peddling the entire idea of this update, But I don't think we can FULLY judge it until we know how bad the drop rate on the Kings were nerfed.
Yeah it didn't sound to me either that the KSNM drops were lowered. I actually think I know why they did it this way, but it's pretty retarded thinking. I believe "back-peddling" is actually a very nice way of putting it, but meh.. We'll see.

[Elexia]

Only problem I see with this is it's SE's typical give and take type system.

We'll give you easier to pop NMs, but you'll have to go through hoops of fire to do so.

We'll let you pop an NM path you want but you need to take pictures first.

We'll let you pop even more NMs using a KI, but you have to go to x,y,z zone and pop them in tiers, oh and they can spawn as shadow meaning no drops.

So yeah, change is cool but the pop items for example coulda been simple and to the point like Abyssea's, but it does get people out of abyssea so I'm happy.

[Daremo]

Dude, you're really not reading this right. They are not lowering the drop rate inside the KSNM. It stays the same, only you also get a pop for the NQ turtle, which drops a pop for the HQ turtle, which can also drop Egg. This only lowers your chances of getting BB items if you camp HNMs, or buy the drops from the camped HNMs.


Or, of course, if you don't have a group or the seals to do KSNMs with.

[Rambus]

Don't freak out so badly man, I was actually trying to validate your concerns there if you didn't notice. I just said that we don't know yet how much it was lowered - and that yea, if it is any kind of significant decrease then I agree with you completely. They're a low enough drop already, I've helped LS mates in the past with them.. it's painful stuff.

my point I was trying to get across is that it is too low with the way things ARE. so any kind of drop lowering makes it even more intolerable.

keep in mind i am only talking about egg, the beard ends up on the ground from trying to get speed belts lol.

I have no clue on tongue, do that the lest, do not remember seeing it drop off my orb though

[Runespider]

Only problem I see with this is it's SE's typical give and take type system.

We'll give you easier to pop NMs, but you'll have to go through hoops of fire to do so.

We'll let you pop an NM path you want but you need to take pictures first.

We'll let you pop even more NMs using a KI, but you have to go to x,y,z zone and pop them in tiers, oh and they can spawn as shadow meaning no drops.

So yeah, change is cool but the pop items for example coulda been simple and to the point like Abyssea's, but it does get people out of abyssea so I'm happy.

It's an MMO, duh? This will still be better than the previous system, far far more people will get to fight them than ever before.


my point I was trying to get across is that it is too low with the way things ARE. so any kind of drop lowering makes it even more intolerable.

Don't do it then, brown belt is more than good enough for everything you want to kill in lolabyssea.

[Karbuncle]

Only problem I see with this is it's SE's typical give and take type system.

We'll give you easier to pop NMs, but you'll have to go through hoops of fire to do so.

We'll let you pop an NM path you want but you need to take pictures first.

We'll let you pop even more NMs using a KI, but you have to go to x,y,z zone and pop them in tiers, oh and they can spawn as shadow meaning no drops.

So yeah, change is cool but the pop items for example coulda been simple and to the point like Abyssea's, but it does get people out of abyssea so I'm happy.

If the pops were as easy to get as they are in Abyssea, I think there would be an entirely different type of Crying on these forums.

but trust me, There woulds till be complaining :\

People will always complain. Its usually because those people who are like "SWEET, this Update rocks" are probably sitting behind their computer not bothering to type it because of all the "Negative" responses, they don't wanna get in a huge flame war with someone because they think its a good update, and the other guy doesn't.

So we mostly see people complaining, and a few people saying its good.

[Greatguardian]

Or, of course, if you don't have a group or the seals to do KSNMs with.

You can farm KS solo if you have to, or you can EXP a new job outside Abyssea! Also, you can shout to form groups since all the KS99s can be done with like 4-6 people tops at 90. I'm fairly sure at least the KB/Wyrm have been solo'd too.

[Greatguardian]

If the pops were as easy to get as they are in Abyssea, I think there would be an entirely different type of Crying on these forums.

but trust me, There woulds till be complaining :\

People will always complain. Its usually because those people who are like "SWEET, this Update rocks" are probably sitting behind their computer not bothering to type it because of all the "Negative" responses, they don't wanna get in a huge flame war with someone because they think its a good update, and the other guy doesn't.

So we mostly see people complaining, and a few people saying its good.

I think this update rocks. Seriously, this is the bomb. I've had a Black Belt for years, I'm not even mayad that they're making it easier to get. All this means is I can farm up some Nlegs for my buddy's CDC set without worrying about Einherjar or 3am Nid camping.

[Krisan]

If the pops were as easy to get as they are in Abyssea, I think there would be an entirely different type of Crying on these forums.

but trust me, There woulds till be complaining :\

People will always complain. Its usually because those people who are like "SWEET, this Update rocks" are probably sitting behind their computer not bothering to type it because of all the "Negative" responses, they don't wanna get in a huge flame war with someone because they think its a good update, and the other guy doesn't.

So we mostly see people complaining, and a few people saying its good.
Man, you seem to have some of the most sensible posts I've seen on here. Yeah, I'd say that's very true.

[Rorald]

I agree that there needed to be changes to the Nms but the method said here seems totally backwards to me. If this were 2 or more years ago then probably would be outstanding, but with the progressing of this game i feel like this is making it even HARDER to get the desired items.
I myself have seen Nidhogg, Aspid, and KB all unclaimed walking around several times on my server in the past few months.

Simple fact is people arnt going to farm KSs for these bc's and they wont be done after the first month of spamming what ks's everyone has, the only way this would be good is if the droprate for defending ring and ridill were increased.

My suggestion would be to switch it from KS to KC so its relevant to current play styles.

[Rambus]

You can farm KS solo if you have to, or you can EXP a new job outside Abyssea!

I need some auto delevel feature, killing my self 1 000 000 times while setting HP in cape will take too long


I agree that there needed to be changes to the Nms but the method said here seems totally backwards to me. If this were 2 or more years ago then probably would be outstanding, but with the progressing of this game i feel like this is making it even HARDER to get the desired items.
I myself have seen Nidhogg, Aspid, and KB all unclaimed walking around several times on my server in the past few months.

Simple fact is people arnt going to farm KSs for these bc's and they wont be done after the first month of spamming what ks's everyone has, the only way this would be good is if the droprate for defending ring and ridill were increased.

My suggestion would be to switch it from KS to KC so its relevant to current play styles.

That is my thinking, I really do not understand "this update rocks" when it really sounds a step back, not forward.

Before abyssea ya maybe it would of been good, but now? -.-

I need to scout these NMs maybe i can get egg before this craptasic update.

[Karbuncle]

I think this update rocks. Seriously, this is the bomb. I've had a Black Belt for years, I'm not even mayad that they're making it easier to get. All this means is I can farm up some Nlegs for my buddy's CDC set without worrying about Einherjar or 3am Nid camping.

Need to find myself a pair of Cursed Subligar -1 for my THF's WS set >.>;;

[Chiibi]

What? Really? No one's super happy that there's a reason for people to EXP outside Abyssea from 40-75 again? What's going on? I thought it was like a supermajority of players that wanted some sort of added incentive to EXP normally. This is, like, as big an incentive as they could give.

I'm actually convinced people are complaining because it forces them to work without their beloved atma.

[Topdogg]

How is this a step back?? I think this is a great idea and yes, this update rocks. I can't believe the number of ppl crying over this because theres more work involved. This will balance out in the end, dont worry. And if you want KS's, take your DRK to cape with your twilight scythe and go crazy. But yeah, like a previous reply said, we asked for this and SE gave it to us. And I thank them.

[Atomic_Skull]

So I guess when people said "we just want the kings to be fair" what they really meant was "we want a BB vending machine"

[Rambus]

How is this a step back?? I think this is a great idea and yes, this update rocks. I can't believe the number of ppl crying over this because theres more work involved. This will balance out in the end, dont worry. And if you want KS's, take your DRK to cape with your twilight scythe and go crazy. But yeah, like a previous reply said, we asked for this and SE gave it to us. And I thank them.

was told it dont proc much outside abyssea.

SE is obsessed with super low drop rates ( look what I said on my experience on egg) I have to do more work because i am unlucky????????????

Wonder if more people are thinking like me, gonna try farm real NM for egg because drop rate in ksnm is so piss poor.

[Greatguardian]

So I guess when people said "we just want the kings to be fair" what they really meant was "we want a BB vending machine"

Exactly. What's more fair than force popped Kings, whose pop items you get as 100% Drops from KSNM?

[Karbuncle]

So I guess when people said "we just want the kings to be fair" what they really meant was "we want a BB vending machine"

I Think for the first time in a while i chuckled IRL.

[Toren]

This update will only hurt those on a limited time schedule more... can spend week's trying to farm up for 99's and that's assuming you sit and kill mobs solo/duo 4~8 hours a day straight (I can say this from many months of farm grinding for a relic weapon that I helped someone duo who also dedicated all the seal drops to me and helped on my own personal time solo prior to abyssea's release.)

this could be amended by reducing the seal requirement to enter to about 40-50.

I can also easily seeing this becoming a nightmare for Mnk's who need black belt's as it would cost 297 seals minimum assuming they are lucky and get a item within either the KSNM fight or the HQ fight as opposed to the NQ fights which can as of now all be solo'd by various jobs. (I believe the current average rate on BB items from KSNM's is somewhere between 1/3~1/6+ or at least that was the rough average I saw on them when I was getting my Adamantoise Egg)

[Rambus]

This update will only hurt those on a limited time schedule more... can spend week's trying to farm up for 99's and that's assuming you sit and kill mobs solo/duo 4~8 hours a day straight (I can say this from many months of farm grinding for a relic weapon that I helped someone duo who also dedicated all the seal drops to me and helped on my own personal time solo prior to abyssea's release.)

this could be amended by reducing the seal requirement to enter to about 40-50.

I can also easily seeing this becoming a nightmare for Mnk's who need black belt's as it would cost 297 seals minimum assuming they are lucky and get a item within either the KSNM fight or the HQ fight as opposed to the NQ fights which can as of now all be solo'd by various jobs. (I believe the current average rate on BB items from KSNM's is somewhere between 1/3~1/6+ or at least that was the rough average I saw on them when I was getting my Adamantoise Egg)

i would say 1 out of 2/3 for beard, not for egg though. I am 1 out of 10/15 for egg ( and none of the egg was my orb :( )

[Topdogg]

was told it dont proc much outside abyssea.

SE is obsessed with super low drop rates ( look what I said on my experience on egg) I have to do more work because i am unlucky????????????

Wonder if more people are thinking like me, gonna try farm real NM for egg because drop rate in ksnm is so piss poor.

Proc's alot for me tbh. More than it does in abyssea. I believe the mobs lvl has alot to do with proc rates

[Rambus]

Proc's alot for me tbh. More than it does in abyssea. I believe the mobs lvl has alot to do with proc rates

Someone in my ls was commenting that they rarely see it work outside abyssea but ruined a shinru off it because it died pre proc ( blue/red w/e) I do not have one I do not care for drk much.

[Toren]

Complaining...? How many of you have actually gone out and actually dedicated time to farming for multiple 99's?

I have and if you have not you might as well stop posting now because you have no clue what your in for. If you have then be my guest. I can easily see why people are upset.

[Rorald]

Anyone who thinks this wont be bad really has no idea what your in for with farming these seals for a CHANCE at your BB items lol, and unless they change the droprate i really feel bad for anyone that has their eyes on a dring, not that it was very obtainable before.

[Greatguardian]

Anyone who thinks this wont be bad really has no idea what your in for with farming these seals for a CHANCE at your BB items lol, and unless they change the droprate i really feel bad for anyone that has their eyes on a dring, not that it was very obtainable before.

And we have a winner. This is only negatively impacting people who were camping HNMs for the BB items. Rather, it's negatively impacting the ones who were claiming HNMs. Those who weren't going to get claim anyways may as well take the 1-2M they would've paid for the drop and just pay for the Pop item from someone else's KSNM.

[Henihhi]

This thread is just so full of greatness. And yes a lot of you are complaining try not only saving up 99 ks but also spending hours to claim an hnm for a shit drop rate unless you got HQ claim. This gives you multiple chances per day to get the item if you actually *gasp* go outside abyssea and farm your seals. Cause , you know, SE hasn't handed you 60 free lvls by key whoring as it is, you guys actually seem to want more free hand outs. God forbid you might have to kill something w/o atmas and buffs to get a best in slot item. And let me repeat- you got exactly what you asked for by blowing these forums up complaining about hnm and abyssea, now maybe you will think a bit before you spew stupid.

[Daremo]

For those who may have missed it, the original [Dev 1009] post has been updated. Only the pop item from the KSNM99 is going to be 100%, the pop item from NQ? Better hope the RNG loves you...

[Flunklesnarkin]

ehh.. do manage to get random kindred seals doing magian trials also

[Greatguardian]

This thread is just so full of greatness. And yes a lot of you are complaining try not only saving up 99 ks but also spending hours to claim an hnm for a shit drop rate unless you got HQ claim. This gives you multiple chances per day to get the item if you actually *gasp* go outside abyssea and farm your seals. Cause , you know, SE hasn't handed you 60 free lvls by key whoring as it is, you guys actually seem to want more free hand outs. God forbid you might have to kill something w/o atmas and buffs to get a best in slot item. And let me repeat- you got exactly what you asked for by blowing these forums up complaining about hnm and abyssea, now maybe you will think a bit before you spew stupid.

Too much truth to be contained in one post. Posting again to let it sink in.

[Rambus]

This thread is just so full of greatness. And yes a lot of you are complaining try not only saving up 99 ks but also spending hours to claim an hnm for a shit drop rate unless you got HQ claim. This gives you multiple chances per day to get the item if you actually *gasp* go outside abyssea and farm your seals. Cause , you know, SE hasn't handed you 60 free lvls by key whoring as it is, you guys actually seem to want more free hand outs. God forbid you might have to kill something w/o atmas and buffs to get a best in slot item. And let me repeat- you got exactly what you asked for by blowing these forums up complaining about hnm and abyssea, now maybe you will think a bit before you spew stupid.

SE never gave me 60 levels of key whoring, and I disagree with "multiple chances per day" care to explain how to get 198 seals in a day?

this is not an update, it is a step backwords, people that say otherwise does not understand SE.

[Runespider]

I wish they would of increased the level of the HQ kings at the end of this, I know they won't but I really wish they did :(

For people still complaining.. this will lead to mass numbers of shouts in PJ and most of them will be from people going for king gear abj and BB items being free lot, this makes obtaining a BB easier than ever imagined.

[Greatguardian]

SE never gave me 60 levels of key whoring, and I disagree with "multiple chances per day" care to explain how to get 198 seals in a day?

this is not an update, it is a step backwords, people that say otherwise does not understand SE.

You're still assuming no one has any friends who may already have, or not need, Black belts and may have Kindred Seals.

[Rambus]

You're still assuming no one has any friends who may already have, or not need, Black belts and may have Kindred Seals.

Does not matter if people have stored KS, that is a weak pro-argument for this update.

you are basically saying screw you to newer players and players that do not have many KS from trying to get said items in the past.

do you guys understand how the system wil work based on notes???

get 99 KS

enter KSNM

get a small chance of BB item with useless crap no one buys anymore and at lest 1 pop item for NQ

pop NQ

do not get BB item
Do not get HQ item even after a few attempts.

system is good? ya right

[pheare]

I don't get why people are so mad over this? They obviously take good news and twist it into terrible news. This is obviously 10000% better for getting D. Ring and other gear. And if your main concern is BB item then just stay in behemoth's dominion the day after the update and ask one of the hundreds of groups popping KB if you can buy their tongue... Hell, some may even give it away for free.

Don't have gil? Farm 99 KS(Which you should have anyway). Find a group that is only going for D ring and tell them you'll go with them and use your 99 KS. I'm sure they'll give you tongue for another chance at a HQ pop. Even farming 99 KS by yourself and finding a group like that is going to net you the tongue a whole hell of a lot faster than you would ever get it the way things are now.

People bitch and whine over everything without even thinking about how good this is.

[Rambus]

I don't get why people are so mad over this? They obviously take good news and twist it into terrible news. This is obviously 10000% better for getting D. Ring and other gear. And if your main concern is BB item then just stay in behemoth's dominion the day after the update and ask one of the hundreds of groups popping KB if you can buy their tongue... Hell, some may even give it away for free.

Don't have gil? Farm 99 KS(Which you should have anyway). Find a group that is only going for D ring and tell them you'll go with them and use your 99 KS. I'm sure they'll give you tongue for another chance at a HQ pop. Even farming 99 KS by yourself and finding a group like that is going to net you the tongue a whole hell of a lot faster than you would ever get it the way things are now.

People bitch and whine over everything without even thinking about how good this is.
do you guys understand how the system wil work based on notes???

get 99 KS

enter KSNM

get a small chance of BB item with useless crap no one buys anymore and at lest 1 pop item for NQ

pop NQ

do not get BB item
Do not get HQ item even after a few attempts.

system is good? ya right

to me people are saying kings as force pop so must be good, uh no it is not

[Kensagaku]

Not really. New players can EXP outside of abyssea rather than keyleech. Those who don't have many KS are out of luck, yes, but it's not that hard to farm them. Heaven forbid you do some work just to get some KS for an item you want. Heaven forbid something take effort.

People asked for something, were vague about it. This is the result. Congrats. ^^

[Henihhi]

Well if you don't want to farm the ks or camp the hnms wtf do you want SE to do for you? Thousands have obtained the black belt in the past, yes it was a pain in the ass, but seriously- do you want to just log in and have it in your inventory? And honestly at lvl 90 it is not that hard to go farm kses for a day. SE decides to release something that suits all of the complaints that have been spammed on here and yet you all are still not happy.Go lvl a job outside abyssea til 80 or so and i guarantee you will have enough ks to do the ksnm lol

[SNK]

99 Kindred's Seals is a little extreme, especially since most of the gear dropped by these mobs are obsolete. For people who don't have thousand's of seals at their disposal, this method is popping is much slower than where it stands now.

No it's not. If you've played for as long as most people have getting 99 Seals is nothing. Hell I'm sitting on close to 1400 myself which means a lot of people will get stuff off my pops.

And seriously some of you people have had years to obtain Black Belt items before this was annouced. Hell i got my items when my damn MNK was only level 37. This is much better for those of us who still want to get BB items without having to pay for em.

Truth be told I'm only semi interested in Ebody just to finally finish my last piece of King Gear.

[Toren]

Try more along the lines of once per month unless your paying for the items. Honestly this is not about being lazy its about requiring 3-4 weeks of soloing 4-8 hours a day for one fight. I've sit patiently farming the same mobs for 4-8 hours a day many many times and would do it again if my real life permitted. I have my black belt I'm not fighting on my own behalf I'm fighting for those who don't have these items. and its actually 297 seals for just one chance at all 3..., I've worked with camps for years. I've straight camped Tiamat (yes 8+ hours at one camp alone) up into early morning hours and I do not complain about the current system in place for them or kings, however I do not think it should be changed into this.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Does not matter if people have stored KS, that is a weak pro-argument for this update.

you are basically saying screw you to newer players and players that do not have many KS from trying to get said items in the past.

do you guys understand how the system wil work based on notes???

get 99 KS

enter KSNM

get a small chance of BB item with useless crap no one buys anymore and at lest 1 pop item for NQ

pop NQ

do not get BB item
Do not get HQ item even after a few attempts.

system is good? ya right

You make it sound like the system is already in place >_>

I do believe this is a dev discussion thread.. and all of it is subject to change...

Force pops are a good thing... lets hope they add multiple ways to obtain these force pops

[Greatguardian]

Naw, it should be changed to something easier than Kings because the bulk of the people who hated Kings were unable to do them.

Protip: Attentive players can, and always have been able been able to outclaim bots.

[pheare]

do you guys understand how the system wil work based on notes???

get 99 KS

enter KSNM

get a small chance of BB item with useless crap no one buys anymore and at lest 1 pop item for NQ

pop NQ

do not get BB item
Do not get HQ item even after a few attempts.

system is good? ya right

to me people are saying kings as force pop so must be good, uh no it is not

Yes, I do understand. From what I gather it's like VNMs, except tier 1 is a 100% Drop. Seems more than fair to me.

SE is obviously making this easier, not harder. It's like their plans for dynamis. "Currency will be reduced but overall there will be more currency due to the amount you can do it" Or whatever they said.

[Tsuneo]

No it's not. If you've played for as long as most people have getting 99 Seals is nothing. Hell I'm sitting on close to 1400 myself which means a lot of people will get stuff off my pops.

And seriously some of you people have had years to obtain Black Belt items before this was annouced. Hell i got my items when my damn MNK was only level 37. This is much better for those of us who still want to get BB items without having to pay for em.

Truth be told I'm only semi interested in Ebody just to finally finish my last piece of King Gear.

Except people who made money off their KS's. I used majority of my KS back when Royale Ramble had a decent payout, so yeah not every is sitting on thousands of seals.

Buying black belts item isn't even a relevant topic nowadays. Unless someone is specifically there for the black belt item those NMs can just sit up for hours. So not having to buy the items is a poor excuse for the changes.

People always had an alternative to king gear. Majority of people wanted to cry about king gear, but at the same time were too lazy to do the alternative. I personally got my Ebody from Einherjar.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Naw, it should be changed to something easier than Kings because the bulk of the people who hated Kings were unable to do them.

Protip: Attentive players can, and always have been able been able to outclaim bots.

Regardless of the obvious skill that is required to claim mobs in a video game ( I swore a blood oath to the hindu monks to never reveal their video game claiming secrets)

Its retarded to compete over hnm's or NM's in general.. yes thats an opinion.. and i think its the opinion of most people who play the game.

Most people play to kill NM's and have fun.. not stand around for hours waiting for something to show up.


I think you vastly overestimate the difficulty of hnm's.. sure maybe in 2004 or 2005 the vast majority of players wouldn't be able to kill ground kings.

To suggest that most people can't kill ground kings these days is retarded.

The only issue is actually getting claim.. and this update is helping everybody...

unless you happen to be that one person who was monopolizing the hnm so nobody else could claim ;o

[Henihhi]

Except people who made money off their KS's. I used majority of my KS back when Royale Ramble had a decent payout, so yeah not every is sitting on thousands of seals.

People always had an alternative to king gear. Majority of people wanted to cry about king gear, but at the same time were to lazy to do the alternative.

So you got something for your seals. That was your choice. Most of the complaints about this system were the same people complaining about abyssea, wanting xp outside abyssea, and saying hnms were too hard to claim. They got what they asked for. Just because someone blew all their seals making gil off R3 <yes i did the same lol> does not make this bad in anyway, just means they have to go out and get seals. You know, like put a half assed effort forth to go kill ep mobs.

[pheare]

also, this will be a great way to motivate people to start and/or finish their weapon trials. they can now kill their EP mobs while doing trial weapons and getting Kindred Seals for their kings. :)

[Greatguardian]

Regardless of the obvious skill that is required to claim mobs in a video game ( I swore a blood oath to the hindu monks to never reveal their video game claiming secrets)

Its retarded to compete over hnm's or NM's in general.. yes thats an opinion.. and i think its the opinion of most people who play the game.

Most people play to kill NM's and have fun.. not stand around for hours waiting for something to show up.


I think you vastly overestimate the difficulty of hnm's.. sure maybe in 2004 or 2005 the vast majority of players wouldn't be able to kill ground kings.

To suggest that most people can't kill ground kings these days is retarded.

The only issue is actually getting claim.. and this update is helping everybody...

unless you happen to be that one person who was monopolizing the hnm so nobody else could claim ;o

I don't overestimate the difficulty of HNMs. They're shit-easy. I simply take a jaded look at the playerbase and realize they'd probably be equipping their Turbans in their Feet slot if the game didn't prevent them from trying.

[Andylynn]

I really like the direction theyre headed, with the decrease in BB loot drops, the new trigger systems, and whatnot, its really a step in the right direction for ridding of these damn bandwagons, to let us play jobs freely again. One less pink nin, mnk, perle war, makes a happy kitty.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I don't overestimate the difficulty of HNMs. They're shit-easy. I simply take a jaded look at the playerbase and realize they'd probably be equipping their Turbans in their Feet slot if the game didn't prevent them from trying.

Yah screw the pansy hnm's in ffxi

they need something like kerafyrm the sleeper from everquest.... (he goes zone to zone and kills everybody and doesn't stop >:U)

[Cream_Soda]

Wtf @ this update. Did I just lv to 90 my mnk for nothing -.-. This update is going to drive the price up at camps because now the ls' have to use their KS to pop these nms.

FML. I just wanted to get my black belt and finish capping my h2h so I could be a good tank for my group.

Really, if they're going to go through w/ this, SE better give me my 3 days back that I spent on mnk. I could have been studying or something.

[Orson]

Yah screw the pansy hnm's in ffxi

they need something like kerafyrm the sleeper from everquest.... (he goes zone to zone and kills everybody and doesn't stop >:U)

I thought that the Sleeper had been killed. We basically had AV. Not only that but PW was so hard it actually made it into the news (albeit videogame news.)

[Henihhi]

And a lot of people have totally missed the fact that now you can kill the nm any time you want, instead of having to camp it at ungodly hours and praying for claim. Think the OP mentioned this also. So its win- win for all those people who have posted tons of complaints about hnm camping.

[Andylynn]

I thought that the Sleeper had been killed. We basically had AV. Not only that but PW was so hard it actually made it into the news (albeit videogame news.)

He was supposed to be unkillable, except one guild proved the servers wrong :P. He was a one time release, as an event to rampage the servers.


Wtf @ this update. Did I just lv to 90 my mnk for nothing -.-. This update is going to drive the price up at camps because now the ls' have to use their KS to pop these nms.

FML. I just wanted to get my black belt and finish capping my h2h so I could be a good tank for my group.

Really, if they're going to go through w/ this, SE better give me my 3 days back that I spent on mnk. I could have been studying or something.
3 days is nothing really >_>; personally, do we really need another bandwagon mnk lying around parties not pulling its weight? No offense to you, just saying it tends to happen.

[Greatguardian]

3 days is nothing really >_>; personally, do we really need another bandwagon mnk lying around parties not pulling its weight? No offense to you, just saying it tends to happen.

He's kidding. CS has had Mnk, BB, and pretty top notch gear for ages.

[Tsuneo]

I keep hearing about these bandwagon jobs, but I have yet to experience one. I guess thats what happens when the quality of people you hang out with are the same as yourself.

[Greatguardian]

I keep hearing about these bandwagon jobs, but I have yet to experience one. I guess thats what happens when the quality of people you hang out with are the same as yourself.

idk man, Andylynn has like a Gungnir and shit on his mule. I was under the impression he was pretty pro.

[RAIST]

Fafnir : Wyrm Beard removed
Nidhogg : Drop rate of Wyrm Beard decreased
Behemoth : Behemoth Tongue removed
King Behemoth : Drop rate of Behemoth Tongue decreased
Adamantoise : Adamantoise Egg removed
Aspidochelone : Drop rate of Adamantoise Egg decreased

I really don't get why they had to take the drops from the NQ versions. Rates were already pretty low as they were. now you have to kill both, and they are taking away the 100% drop on the 2nd fight. Granted, we don't know what that reduced rate will be now, it could be high like 1/2 or 2/3 or something--if you don't get it on the first try, have to go back and start over and do all 3 fights again. If you still had a small chance of getting them from the NQ version it wouldn't be so bad--you would STILL have to do two fights to have a shot at getting it from the NQ (KSNM99 for pop item, then kill the NQ). Taking them away from the NQ ones I think is really unnecessary.

[Gotterdammerung]

Wtf @ this update. Did I just lv to 90 my mnk for nothing -.-. This update is going to drive the price up at camps because now the ls' have to use their KS to pop these nms.

FML. I just wanted to get my black belt and finish capping my h2h so I could be a good tank for my group.

Really, if they're going to go through w/ this, SE better give me my 3 days back that I spent on mnk. I could have been studying or something.

Sarcasm is really hard to pull off in text form. Well done sir.

[Andylynn]

I keep hearing about these bandwagon jobs, but I have yet to experience one. I guess thats what happens when the quality of people you hang out with are the same as yourself.

MNK, WAR, NIN; the one's you see commonly in the occasional exp party wearing low level equipment, and cruor gear sets.


idk man, Andylynn has like a Gungnir and shit on his mule. I was under the impression he was pretty pro
hurr i trollz, i thinkz i pro 2.

[Tsuneo]

What I'm saying is those people never affected me to begin with. I don't see how this will fix people having to deal with gimps though. There isn't a way to fix people choosing to play wrong.

[Octaviane]

I am a tad confused. Will BB items still be a possible drop in KS99's after the update? Or am I reading thet SE has now made it even more frustrating to get those BB items with a REDUCED drop rate from HQ Land Kings and NO drop at all from NQ after you do the KS99's for a 100% drop pop item? This is not what was asked for or suggested at all. This forum in general asked for reduced spawn times of Land Kings - success, we asked for drop rates from NQ Land Kings or the KS99's to be improved, not removed -fail. Getting pop items to force spawn Kings was suggested, but not with the conditions SE have come up with. I also know that we have to accept some kind of trade off for the reduced timers, but, this is too severe. I have no issue with obtaining KS, they drop like candy levels 36+ in non-abyssea areas, but to earn them and have the option to do KS99's with a chance of getting the BB item without having to do the Land Kings is, I am hoping still there. Well, it will be at least until the update anyway. OMG SE......................I shake my head at you. (runs off to do her KS99's and finish BB before the update).

[Greatguardian]

Yes, they will still be a possible drop from KS99. Nowhere does it mention changing that drop at all.

[Toren]

From the way it looks KSNM's drop rates will remain unchanged, NQ's won't be able to drop them anymore and the items to pop the HQ's are not 100% either, as well as the HQ's not being a 100% on the black belt items as well.

which is where I see the problem coming in especially if you farm 99 seals not to get a HQ pop item from the NQ.

[MarkovChain]

Seeing as Kindred seals cannot drop more than once per 5 minutes unless you form an alliance in which case it is 3 drops per 5 minutes maximum, and considering it is subject to treasure hunter, I say 99 kindred seals require a minimum of 3 hours with super luck, and realistically (TH limitations) probably double of this time. 6 hours for 1 behemoth BCNM = 1 behemoth = random chance at King Behemoth. You are probably looking 400 seals for 1 king behemoth or 24 hours of farming. WTF were they thinking.

edit : just realised they wanted it to be as much cock blocking as camping it : 24 H respawn NM, and 1/4 chance of HQ version of the NM (or something like this) means the average joe would spend on average 4 evenings of 6 hours until he sees an HQ >_>. That's propably how they thought it lol.

[Octaviane]

Greatguardian: Thanks :) I didn't see it mentioned either that drops from KS99's would be removed. You just never know with SE though..................

[Thundro]

I like the idea and personally don't care too much (depends on the possible augments on kings gear) but to make the trig drop only from KS99 and then remove the BB items from NQ and make HQ not 100% is just so SE-like. Just missing the confirmation that the trigs are not 100% from NQ or BC. Gogo 1k KS for a try at KB and then still 1% chance for D Ring woot!

Hope developers really read those forums and add other possibilities to get the pop items or lower KS needed for those BCs to 30 or so at least. Atm Id rather stick with the 24hr repop than with this shitty method.

[Dazusu]

And let me repeat- you got exactly what you asked for by blowing these forums up complaining about hnm and abyssea, now maybe you will think a bit before you spew stupid.

You're my hero.

[wish12oz]

I just hope they increase the drop rate for D ring, thats the only thing I never got =[

[SNK]

Except people who made money off their KS's. I used majority of my KS back when Royale Ramble had a decent payout, so yeah not every is sitting on thousands of seals.

Buying black belts item isn't even a relevant topic nowadays. Unless someone is specifically there for the black belt item those NMs can just sit up for hours. So not having to buy the items is a poor excuse for the changes.

People always had an alternative to king gear. Majority of people wanted to cry about king gear, but at the same time were too lazy to do the alternative. I personally got my Ebody from Einherjar.

It's not even that. People have just been givin another chance at obtaining items for Black Belt. Let's be straight up about that belt tho. It's a broken item and always has been. It's one of those items that easily can push a MNK over the haste cap and is still considered one of the premier Haste items in the game for the one job that can use it.

I'm personally happy this is being done. Kings were outdated for awhile but and even tho I got most of the shinys I wanted off him ages ago a Ridill somehow being the last item I obtained, I still like fighting the damn thing. The change is coming so more power to people like myself who saved up a ton of seals for the hell of it.

Oh and I got my Kbody off Einherjar and my Dalmy off another shell's wiped Nidhogg. lol

[xiozen]

For people unable to claim with bots this is far fairer and they might actually get to fight them, as for the gear being obsolete...if that were teh case nobody would care one way or the other. It simply isn't the case, a good portion of them are still desired.

Thank you for pointing out that there are quite a few folks, such as myself, who would love to fight these HNMs--since camping them was wayyyyy too time consuming. Now SE has given me a chance to at least experience these fights...regardless of the pops.

Gone are the days of camping for hours and hours and days and days...then to lose the mob to a botter...

[Tsuneo]

I still don't understand why botting is being discussed. It really isn't relevant to the condition that HNMs are in at the moment. Sure they were pretty heavily botted, but those days were gone even before this update.

[Octaviane]

MNK, WAR, NIN; the one's you see commonly in the occasional exp party wearing low level equipment, and cruor gear sets.


hurr i trollz, i thinkz i pro 2.

/sigh, no-one is ever happy about any of FFXI jobs, crap gear or otherwise, always has to be someone complaining.

[Ahtos]

This is the worst idea ever. Its nice you need a item to pop the NM now but how you get it is crap. Ppl don´t wanna go back to the old camps and farm KS just for this. The 3 NM's drop crap these days, well maybe beside 1 or 2 items and decreasing the drop rate / removing the BB items don´t really help to encourage ppl to do the NM's and/or farm KS anymore.

[Juilan]

the Achilles heal of this update will be one things:

Are they making D ring obtainable without a year commitment?

I hate all these people that are pro-change on this, I leveled all but PUP COR DNC and SCH to 75 via good old fashion grinding, I am not going to be "oh boy i can xp in this camp again" most of them sucked, most of them I'm stilling have nightmares over... in the tree on crabs xping 50ish, "Incoming Aquarius" > wipe. "Anyone have RR?" no, i didnt put it up after that water elemental wiped us. Good times! I have friends that I have been camping Behe for for the tongue, when they're on, I can sit in BD for a few hours do homework and not be bothered to do anything til the time he told me to kill it at so he could be home in time. This update changes it to, "lemme use your KS99 for worthless loot" and i get "im doing homework like i did when we were camping" now if the monster actually dropped the mythical D ring, then i'd be "i'll be right on it, i wont play game boy and i'll actually blink tank" i used to camp d ring daily with an HNM and stopped after leaving the shell only because a friend yelled at me for camping against her... again if the items, less the black belt, aren't worth the effort put in because the dragon hearts that used to sell for 40k now sell to NPCs for 7k, more than the 4k on the AH... or the Behe hides which are now 40k, if that, this update is truly just making the monk's life harder.

for those people saying "don't complain about having to work for your item", you'll be doing more work for less results, about 2 to 4 weeks for a pop item if you have something like school or work or a wife or kids for something with a lower drop rate than it used to ... where as you could wake up at 2 am find a friend or two to kill an NM sitting... yes im complaining about doing MORE WORK for LESS

but maybe im the rare group that hopes that we can do something fun with void walkers, and hopes pld is the preferred tank, also a good way to get people out of abyssea isn't to make them farm KS, it would be adding level 90 gear to NMs outside of it that aren't insanely hard to kill. the only reason we stay in abbyssea is because even ares's body was bested by a shinryu drop -.- I COMPLAIN ABOUT HAVING TO DO MORE WORK FOR LESS THAN THE LEVEL 90 STUFF BECAUSE I'VE BEEN PLAYING FOR 7 YEARS AND SOME OF THIS STUFF SEEMS AS IF IT WAS GIVEN TO NEW PLAYERS LIKE A BIRTH RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and they didnt add challenge they added time syncs since the level cap breached what else would you call having to get 8 to 10 items off an NM to get a piece of gear when prior to abyssea we had the same things with about the same drop rates, less the !!, from gods and kings... ridill is about the same drop rate as a bullwhip belt if you don't get the !!... just think about that

[Alukat]

years too late. on my server there's only 1 pt camping fafnir and most time there are only 15 ppl camping for nidhogg.
also now u have to farm KS, say you are lucky and u get 5 of them in 1 hour it takes 20 hours to get a KSNM pop item then u need to do the KSNM > the t1 NM > t2 NM.
ok that it is possible to do the t2 immediately after the t1 is a pro.
no competition is a pro too (but to be honest there is not much competition anymore)
but the time spend to get the pop is a con. u need to spend hours to get it. now u just get ToD and then u have a 3 hours window of camping.

[Greatguardian]

Not gonna lie, y'all. Only things I'm going to be killing these for are Nlegs for Chant du Cynge, Ridill for my SAMlulz, and DRing. I'll probably be flooring/selling BB items, and so will half of the playerbase. If you're honestly worried about KS drop rates and BB items, go to Abyssea, Cruor burn some stuff with some friends (or solo, whatever), turn the Cruor into Gil via Chocobo Blinkers or whatever they're called, and buy the BB items.

[Venat]

D-ring for all, The real question is how is King behemoth gonna be spawned from the ??? ? More pops you use the greater it has a chance to spawn? Or will it be like 90% behemoth, 10% King behemoth, 10% D-Ring, 90% junk.

I think they need to add some good rewards back to Cerebus, Kchimra and Hydra. I would like to see those HNMs have more spotlight. Start by adding Aug Quests for the currect rewards they already give out.

[Greatguardian]

D-ring for all, The real question is how is King behemoth gonna be spawned from the ??? ? More pops you use the greater it has a chance to spawn? Or will it be like 90% behemoth, 10% King behemoth, 10% D-Ring, 90% junk.

I think they need to add some good rewards back to Cerebus, Kchimra and Hydra. I would like to see those HNMs have more spotlight. Start by adding Aug Quests for the currect rewards they already give out.

Er, well, I'm assuming they're making two ???s anyways. The pop for the NQ is dropped from the KSNM, and the pop for the HQ is dropped by the NQ, so it's not a random pop between the two. You kill Behemoth in order to get a pop for King Behemoth.

As for ToAU Kings, isn't Cerberus still broken? Last I heard, he was taking like 1-digit damage from melee attacks and shit.

[Tsuneo]

D-ring for all, The real question is how is King behemoth gonna be spawned from the ??? ? More pops you use the greater it has a chance to spawn? Or will it be like 90% behemoth, 10% King behemoth, 10% D-Ring, 90% junk.

I think they need to add some good rewards back to Cerebus, Kchimra and Hydra. I would like to see those HNMs have more spotlight. Start by adding Aug Quests for the currect rewards they already give out.
They don't share a pop. For example if you have a Behemoth pop you have a chance of getting a King Behemoth pop from killing Behemoth.

[Novax]

I'm willing to bet 50% of the playerbase will even do these new KS99/Hnm 40% being ppl looking for BB items and the other 10% just spamming for dring. While that other 50% will be in abyssea, I personally don't like the system nor do I even need to do hnm at all. It could have been put together far better by SE.

[hiko]

Does not matter if people have stored KS, that is a weak pro-argument for this update.

you are basically saying screw you to newer players and players that do not have many KS from trying to get said items in the past.

do you guys understand how the system wil work based on notes???

get 99 KS

enter KSNM

get a small chance of BB item with useless crap no one buys anymore and at lest 1 pop item for NQ

pop NQ

do not get BB item
Do not get HQ item even after a few attempts.

system is good? ya right

now it is:
get 99 KS

enter KSNM

get a small chance of BB item with useless crap no one buys anymore.(the exact same chance it will be after)
OR:
go to HNM camp, get a little chance it's up and unclaim
case 1: HQ unclaim: profit
case 2: NQ unclaim: get liitle chance to get item
case 3: camp for undefined amount of timed

[viion]

I am very against the blackbelt item adjustments, I dont like monk and will never get it, but for those who do want it, at least before they always had a chance, the only tough one was fafnir imo the others barely got camped (from my own experience).

Making it not pop off 1 mob then decreasing it on another, which you might not even be able to fight without a good bunch of friends and you still have to get pop item which we dont knoe drop rate for yet.

I dont know if I like the idea of it requiring KS's tho, I dont remember how fast they come in so will have to go farming for a day and see how many I collect up. But BB will need like 1000 lol prolly more before you get drop, hope ur friends do it a lot XD

[Staren]

I really dont buy the "give people a reason to exp outside of abyssea" rally I saw going on. I leveled several jobs pre-abyssea and I barely have 240ish ks's. I dont think this is a good idea. They should either lower the ks required for ks99's (which at that point they wouldnt be ksnm 99's) or they should make the pop items like ENMS. I think the ENM KI pop idea is the best idea for the situation everyone gets a chance at the t1 every day/couple of days and can get a pop for the hq @ 20-33% chance. Most people are only killing these nms for an antiquated drop they've always wanted its not like it will break the game to make them more readily available and they can drop the drop rates on bb items. I'd prolly QQ to see more stupidly geared mnks wearing blackbelts but at least the requirements to pop these nms wont be retarded.

[Elexia]

It's an MMO, duh? This will still be better than the previous system, far far more people will get to fight them than ever before.

It is indeed an MMO, however the majority of MMOs I've played and currently play aren't built around such a two sided update regimen.

It's mostly the fact that they tend throw you into content that get rarely utilized in order to do what you wanted. There's nothing wrong with having to do prerequisites...but it's the type of prereqs that tend to be laid before you. It is better than open world claim, but it's still going to be the same general few spamming it unless the item vanishes after use.

[Pawkeshup]

Seriously, this is a ridiculous method, and removing the drops from the NQ as well as nerfing the drop rate on the HQs is just plain stupid. 99 KS for a CHANGE at MAYBE getting it... either make it 100% off of HQs and 50% off of NQs or leave it as is.

[Eeek]

Hey, y'all wanted the chance to fight these HNMs without fighting bots or camping at odd hours of the day or night, and now you have it.

And yet people bitch anyways. So predictable.

I guarantee that most of you have a few friends who built up a ton of Kindred Seals while upgrading several Magian weapons. I'm one of them. I'm sitting on about 900 KS. Gather together a few friends with 2-3 orbs, and a single party can probably work their way from KS99s to killing a few HQ kings in an evening. In this scenario, a MNK would have 4-6 chances for a BB item to drop. Within a few hours. Forgive me while I play my tiny violin.

God forbid SE makes KS99s worthwhile again. God forbid SE makes HNM fights accessible to anyone with friends and a halfway-functional brain. God forbid SE updates non-Abyssea content to make it accessible and worthwhile. Isn't this the kind of content you people on the anti-Abyssea bandwagon have been crying and begging for?

What the fuck is wrong with you all?

Any MNK with half a brain will have no problem getting their BB. And guess what? Their friends will get to fight HNMs and pick up a few toys along the way.

Go ahead. Sit here and complain all you want. This will end up just like Abyssea. The people who grab their friends, head out, and try to accomplish something will generally have a good time while the rest of you will sit in Port Jeuno and cry endlessly about the terrible new content despite the fact that you've barely scraped the surface of said content and accomplished fuck all.

(Sorry for the profanity, but how clueless can people be? These forums are endlessly frustrating.)

[MarkovChain]

I really dont buy the "give people a reason to exp outside of abyssea" rally I saw going on.

It's because greatguardian is trolling the thread like every other. Every one but him agrees that this ajustement makes getting a black belt much harder that what it is now.

Better ajustement would be :
30 Kindred's seals per bcnm
add a chance for fafnir to drop his own pop
allow multiple pops to drop from the KS 99 (you enter with 18 so make it 18 drops ? lol)

[Eeek]

It's because greatguardian is trolling the thread like every other. Every one but him agrees that this ajustement makes getting a black belt much harder that what it is now.

Nah, only dumb people without friends or gil think this will make a Black Belt harder to get.

[MarkovChain]

I don't see what gil or friend have to do with this. Those KSNM are most likely easy duo at 90 for one, and for two you don't need gill to enter them do you ? If you expect to get people to give you their kindred's seal and waste their time travelling to to do the KSNMs, instead of doing abyssea, you are wrong. Money has no value right now.

[Eeek]

I don't see what gil or friend have to do with this.

Of course you wouldn't.

[MarkovChain]

You run too quickly out of argument, simple math consideration tell you how retarded it is.

[Korpg]

This is a great update for people who don't have the time for old-style HNM shells to have to bot for anymore.

Yeah, it sucks that the BB item would no longer be from NQ mobs, but the NMs are not that hard anymore. 6 people could kill them back at 75, 6 people who aren't as good can kill them at 90+ now.

Maybe this is SEs sign that BLUs will be learning HNM moves soon?

[Eeek]

You run too quickly out of argument, simple math consideration tell you how retarded it is.

Really? You can't see how easy it is to have two chances (KS99 and HQ HNM) at a BB item whenever you want? Assuming MNKs bring friends (well, not you. people who actually have friends) with their own KS99 orbs who'd like some shiny drop off an HNM, BB items will have even more opportunities to drop.

Yet, this adjustment is somehow worse than camping a 21-24 hour HNM for one chance for a BB item to drop.

[Staren]

Eeek people who dont have bb by now couldnt afford the 3 mil pricetag on the bb items to begin with. I dont see people having gil being the make or break factor of this new system. I'm glad you're excited to do KSNM 99's but this will only be a solution for everyone until their ks's run out. Then you spend at least 2.5 hrs farming a pop for a ksnm 99 if you're lucky and dont get crests or bs's and if the items drop exactly within the 5 min mark of the last drop. Also I dont accredit the mnk in aurore body and shoes, okotes, a brown belt, and a poor mans empy acting like he's hot shit in abyssea with a single brain cell and I bet people like him will be getting a blackbelt by opening this up to the public.

Not all of us were screaming for hnm's to be opened to the public. And no before you start I am not in an HNM ls, I dont do hnm's unless they're up and uncamped and someone wanted to do them for s's and g's. I also have no problem with SE updating outside of abby content but if they're removing the bb drops from the nq whats the harm with making it like ENM's and give it open to the public to pop each hnm once every 3 days per person. If the hq pop drop rate is just as rare as monarchs orb it wont be a problem of over inflation of bb items. Just saying if se really wanted to open this up to people they'd have made it something way less ridiculous than a system that'll putter out after a few months once ppl run out of ks's and dont feel like taking the hours on end to farm ks's to build another pop.

[hiko]

Nah, only dumb people without friends or gil think this will make a Black Belt harder to get.
and people who have >2account and can let one full time inDA/VoS/BD full time to get tod while playing on other account

[Shoko]

Wondering why people are bawing over this change. This update will literally make obtaining Wyrm Beard and Behemoth Tongue cake to get, and Adaman Egg only mildly annoying to get.

I mean, does any of you complainers know how much King Behemoth and Nidhogg will be spammed post update? This considering the fact that SE won't drop the drop rate of BB items below at least 50%, I'm pretty sure the guys in charge have full well considered that you're gonna be ponying up 99 KS seals. Speaking for at least Beard & Tongue, you'll be able to leech off of someone else's NM, seeing as they'll likely be after Defending Ring or N Legs Abj instead.

[MarkovChain]

Give me a reason for people that don't want BB to waste their seal on Fafnir or Adamantoise. What's a better ingame item than defending ring ? Why would people waste their only chance at this item until their next stack of KS is full, probably serveral months ? Want to know what will happen ? Everyone and their sister will empty their seals on behemoths bcnms. Everyone. This will be the new kraken club bcnm.

[Eeek]

Eeek people who dont have bb by now couldnt afford the 3 mil pricetag on the bb items to begin with. I dont see people having gil being the make or break factor of this new system. I'm glad you're excited to do KSNM 99's but this will only be a solution for everyone until their ks's run out. Then you spend at least 2.5 hrs farming a pop for a ksnm 99 if you're lucky and dont get crests or bs's and if the items drop exactly within the 5 min mark of the last drop. Also I dont accredit the mnk in aurore body and shoes, okotes, a brown belt, and a poor mans empy acting like he's hot shit in abyssea with a single brain cell and I bet people like him will be getting a blackbelt by opening this up to the public.

Not all of us were screaming for hnm's to be opened to the public. And no before you start I am not in an HNM ls, I dont do hnm's unless they're up and uncamped and someone wanted to do them for s's and g's. I also have no problem with SE updating outside of abby content but if they're removing the bb drops from the nq whats the harm with making it like ENM's and give it open to the public to pop each hnm once every 3 days per person. If the hq pop drop rate is just as rare as monarchs orb it wont be a problem of over inflation of bb items. Just saying if se really wanted to open this up to people they'd have made it something way less ridiculous than a system that'll putter out after a few months once ppl run out of ks's and dont feel like taking the hours on end to farm ks's to build another pop.

I've never been in an HNM LS, and I for one am glad that Kindred Seals have a use again. Also, re-read the first post. The pop-items for the next stage (KS99 -> NQ HNM -> HQ HNM) are 100% drops.

You seem so concerned about the removal of BB items from the NQ HNMs. Why? In this new system, MNKs will have two chances at a BB item per NM cycle (KS99 and HQ HNM). Oh, and everyone in a 6man party can bring along their own pops. Tell me, how is that worse than one non-guaranteed opportunity at a BB item once every 21-24 hours.

I can't imagine that most people are thinking this adjustment through at all.

[Garota]

I just wanted to add... This is the worst 4/20 idea ever... Somebody at SE been smokin' and tokin' too much ganja, started overthinking and overanalyzing what would be a better way to get BB items...

[Eeek]

Give me a reason for people that don't want BB to waste their seal on Fafnir or Adamantoise. What's a better ingame item than defending ring ? Why would people waste their only chance at this item until their next stack of KS is full, probably serveral months ? Want to know what will happen ? Everyone and their sister will empty their seals on behemoths bcnms. Everyone. This will be the new kraken club bcnm.

People in Abyssea groups never help each other with those worthless Empyrean Weapon Items in Visions zones. Nope. No-sir-ee. People do all the weapons completely solo. Yep. I solo Glavoid like a bawse.

I also solo all the NMs I need Empyrean Armor +2 items. Doesn't everyone? I can't think of a single reason why I'd help my friends with their NMs. Nope, not at all.

And if a friend asks for help with HQ Turtle for their final BB item, I'll spit in their face. If they want it badly enough they'll solo it.

Geez Pchan, are you that unfamiliar with the concept of friendship?

[Xenotime]

TBH this is one of the dumbest things you can do. He is why. If you maker us use KS, which i know i have like 100 of, from doing the bcnm for the NOT 100% drops for BB, Now i have to go waste my time, trying to get more KS, WHich once agian, has shit drop rates. SO what your telling me is. FUCK YOU, YOU CANT HAVE YOUR BLACK BELT. ANd i ante with, ok do it, and watch people quit, and you lose money.


HOWEVER, I think the BB items should be questable or either 100% drop, cause then you can move the players through the game faster, but no, like make it harder, lets nerf ninja, lets nerf ranger. Come on 17 pages of no in less than a day... Maybe that tell you something.

How about the BB items, are poped via KI from the NPC that gives teh quest, Say pay 500k each for them, and then nothing else drops from the NM. Then there wont be as much competition for the Kings, for other items.

[Staren]

If you read the post HQ Pop item isnt 100% they only put the disclaimer for the at least 100% on the ksnm 99's. So you can do 6 KSNM's and get 6 pops for NQ and do 6 NQ's and get 0-1 hq pops. This is how SE works dont fool yourself into thinking you'll get 100% HQ pops. I am HAPPY not concerned about the removal from NQ's because I dont think every monk deserves a black belt. I feel like the blackbelt is your right of passage and you need to earn it through gil or camping/claiming the nms yourself.

I have thought this adjustment through and the point of this is to open the nms up to the public. HNM LS's that bot claimed had access to all three nms every day of the week for years. Why is it silly to give people access to all three nm's once every three days instead of making them only have access to one of the three nms as long as they have 99 ks's and the ppl to do the ksnm. This is a system that will open up access to these nms only so long as they have ks's and that wont last long with ppl having to shell out 99 a pop for one try at an hq pop. I'd rather if they were going to open it up to the public that they'd give us similar access as the hnm bot ls's had.

[Twille]

My only suggestion would be to have the HQ versions have a chance to drop the NQ pop item (low chance) so that you don't have to farm KS over, and over, and over...

[Eeek]

TBH this is one of the dumbest things you can do. He is why. If you maker us use KS, which i know i have like 100 of, from doing the bcnm for the NOT 100% drops for BB, Now i have to go waste my time, trying to get more KS, WHich once agian, has shit drop rates. SO what your telling me is. FUCK YOU, YOU CANT HAVE YOUR BLACK BELT. ANd i ante with, ok do it, and watch people quit, and you lose money.

Any rational person could figure out that the Devs are using KS99s as the starting point both to revitalize that content and to place a limiting factor on number of pops and the speed at which they can be produced. Don't get me wrong, the KS99s and Kings will be swamped for weeks after this update, but over time, the stress on the content will subside as people burn through their stocks of seals.

We've already covered why this update will make it easier for MNKs to get a Black Belt, so there's no reason to go back over it.

Farming Kindred Seals is easy. Just spend time outside Abyssea skilling up, leveling, or upgrading Magian weapons( or any number of other things). You'll build up KS in no time.

I swear, this is a flashback to that quest to break the Level 80 cap. People bitched and moaned about something so simple as getting 5 Kindred Crests. I was constantly stunned by the number of people who struggled so hard with the concept of "just kill Level 70+ mobs" and treated it as if the quest was more punishing than RDM Maat.

[Xenotime]

If you read the post HQ Pop item isnt 100% they only put the disclaimer for the at least 100% on the ksnm 99's. So you can do 6 KSNM's and get 6 pops for NQ and do 6 NQ's and get 0-1 hq pops. This is how SE works dont fool yourself into thinking you'll get 100% HQ pops. I am HAPPY not concerned about the removal from NQ's because I dont think every monk deserves a black belt. I feel like the blackbelt is your right of passage and you need to earn it through gil or camping/claiming the nms yourself.

I have thought this adjustment through and the point of this is to open the nms up to the public. HNM LS's that bot claimed had access to all three nms every day of the week for years. Why is it silly to give people access to all three nm's once every three days instead of making them only have access to one of the three nms as long as they have 99 ks's and the ppl to do the ksnm. This is a system that will open up access to these nms only so long as they have ks's and that wont last long with ppl having to shell out 99 a pop for one try at an hq pop. I'd rather if they were going to open it up to the public that they'd give us similar access as the hnm bot ls's had.

tell you what, then you give me your seals, so i can finish my bb, and we have a deal.

[Eeek]

If you read the post HQ Pop item isnt 100% they only put the disclaimer for the at least 100% on the ksnm 99's. So you can do 6 KSNM's and get 6 pops for NQ and do 6 NQ's and get 0-1 hq pops. This is how SE works dont fool yourself into thinking you'll get 100% HQ pops. I am HAPPY not concerned about the removal from NQ's because I dont think every monk deserves a black belt. I feel like the blackbelt is your right of passage and you need to earn it through gil or camping/claiming the nms yourself.

I have thought this adjustment through and the point of this is to open the nms up to the public. HNM LS's that bot claimed had access to all three nms every day of the week for years. Why is it silly to give people access to all three nm's once every three days instead of making them only have access to one of the three nms as long as they have 99 ks's and the ppl to do the ksnm. This is a system that will open up access to these nms only so long as they have ks's and that wont last long with ppl having to shell out 99 a pop for one try at an hq pop. I'd rather if they were going to open it up to the public that they'd give us similar access as the hnm bot ls's had.


How to obtain the trigger items:

Fafnir: Treasure from “Early Bird Catches the Wyrm”
Nidhogg: Treasure dropped by Fafnir
Behemoth: Treasure from “Horns of War”
King Behemoth: Treasure dropped by Behemoth
Adamantoise: Treasure from “The Hills are Alive”
Aspidochelone: Treasure dropped by Adamantoise

* At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle.

Dude.......

[Ravensbane]

Without joining a HNM ls or having a large group of friends willing to help with the KSNM99, the BB items were already hard to get. I have been wanting my BB for years, but refused to join botting ls's to get it. This just made it that much harder. You say the dev's are finally listening to the players? How so? Making these nms force pops is a great idea and long over due, but requiring these hurdles is just horrible. ; ; On top of making the HNM's harder to pop, killing the drop rate is just sickening.

I have been farming/saving KS to spam the KSNM99 to get my last 2 BB items, but still dont have enough people willing(or able) to help. lol If you see me on and are willing to help with the KSNM's, let me know. I will FL everything but the BB items. With the huge increase of gimp 90's out there I do not want to do /sh for help. >.< Maybe I will get lucky and some random ls will offer to help with the KSNM without the typical 2mil per item charge on Quetz. :D

[Denabond]

To the people who want BB, just suck it up, farm the seals, and kill the NMs. SE is not obligated to simply hand you the BB items. This is technically better then before where you were stuck camping against other people, or having to wake up in the middle of the night for it to pop. There will be overcrowding at first, but it will die out as people run out of their initial stock of KSs.

Edit: To the people who don't have the friends to help kill these NMs, if your on Lakshmi, I'm willing to help whenever.

[Xenotime]

To the people who want BB, just suck it up, farm the seals, and kill the NMs. SE is not obligated to simply hand you the BB items. This is technically better then before where you were stuck camping against other people, or having to wake up in the middle of the night for it to pop. There will be overcrowding at first, but it will die out as people run out of their initial stock of KSs.



they are also not obligated to make our life a living hell either.

[Twille]

When they say "AT LEAST" one of these items will be dropped in every battle, can we hope that a KS99 run could drop multiple NQ pop times? now THAT would be nice.
I still think the HQs should drop possible NQ pop items.

[Michaeluk]

@ Eeeekystain

Maybe it is you who should go re-read the orginal post on this, i have copied it exactly below and notice it's not how you claimed and no were does it state the item to pop the hq kings is 100%

How to obtain the trigger items:

Fafnir: Treasure from “Early Bird Catches the Wyrm”
Behemoth: Treasure from “Horns of War”
Adamantoise: Treasure from “The Hills are Alive”
* At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle.

Nidhogg: Treasure dropped by Fafnir
King Behemoth: Treasure dropped by Behemoth
Aspidochelone: Treasure dropped by Adamantoise

[Denabond]

they are also not obligated to make our life a living hell either.
This is a game. If its hell for you to play this, why play?

[Eeek]

they are also not obligated to make our life a living hell either.

If you think this new system is somehow worse than the current 21-24 hour window for NQs and the 3-7 days window for HQs, I want to know how you remember to breath. Seriously. In the name of scientific research.

[Xenotime]

@ Eeeekystain

Maybe it is you who should go re-read the orginal post on this, i have copied it exactly below and notice it's not how you claimed and no were does it state the item to pop the hq kings is 100%

How to obtain the trigger items:

Fafnir: Treasure from “Early Bird Catches the Wyrm”
Behemoth: Treasure from “Horns of War”
Adamantoise: Treasure from “The Hills are Alive”
* At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle.

Nidhogg: Treasure dropped by Fafnir
King Behemoth: Treasure dropped by Behemoth
Aspidochelone: Treasure dropped by Adamantoise


o How to obtain the trigger items:

Fafnir: Treasure from “Early Bird Catches the Wyrm”
Nidhogg: Treasure dropped by Fafnir
Behemoth: Treasure from “Horns of War”
King Behemoth: Treasure dropped by Behemoth
Adamantoise: Treasure from “The Hills are Alive”
Aspidochelone: Treasure dropped by Adamantoise

* At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle.

[Mightyg]

Farming Kindred Seals is stupid. Otherwise I'm fine with this.

[Sparthos]

Its an improvement over the old system.

There will be lots of people going for the HQ king pops and do not want the BB item overall making the supply of BB items increase to meet the demand.

How many people have bragged about KS? "gaiz, i have like 700 KS hurp derp" These people will be more inclined to do KS99 where the item can still drop and they have an incentive in NQ/HQ king pops which means overall more BB items to throw around.

[Eeek]

@ Eeeekystain

Maybe it is you who should go re-read the orginal post on this, i have copied it exactly below and notice it's not how you claimed and no were does it state the item to pop the hq kings is 100%

How to obtain the trigger items:

Fafnir: Treasure from “Early Bird Catches the Wyrm”
Behemoth: Treasure from “Horns of War”
Adamantoise: Treasure from “The Hills are Alive”
* At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle.

Nidhogg: Treasure dropped by Fafnir
King Behemoth: Treasure dropped by Behemoth
Aspidochelone: Treasure dropped by Adamantoise

/facedesk


How to obtain the trigger items:

Fafnir: Treasure from “Early Bird Catches the Wyrm”
Nidhogg: Treasure dropped by Fafnir
Behemoth: Treasure from “Horns of War”
King Behemoth: Treasure dropped by Behemoth
Adamantoise: Treasure from “The Hills are Alive”
Aspidochelone: Treasure dropped by Adamantoise

* At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle.

For all the Galka in the house, this what what SE means:

KS99 “Early Bird Catches the Wyrm” will drop one trigger (or more!) for Fafnir.
Fafnir will drop one trigger (or more!) for Nidhogg.

KS99 “Horns of War” will drop one trigger (or more!) for Benemoth.
Behemoth will drop one trigger (or more!) for King Behemoth.

KS99 “The Hills are Alive” will drop one trigger (or more!) for Adamantoise.
Adamantoise will drop one trigger (or more!) for Aspidochelone.

[Michaeluk]

Nope stop copying the orginal poster of this topic you simpleton and go look at the main page it is said how i quoted it.


Infact i'll make it easier for you

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5774

You see * At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle. In big red like that underneath Fafnir, Behemoth and Ada. Nothing like that under the hq kings so stop pretending you know more than anyone else at the moment cause you don't stupid woman.

[Denabond]

One more thing, just because they reduced the drop rate of the BB items from 100% doesn't mean its 5% chance to drop. They might drop it down to 50%. A 1/2 chance at a BB item isn't that bad. Of course, I'm assuming they aren't dropping it down to a 5% drop rate.

[Sparthos]

One more thing, just because they reduced the drop rate of the BB items from 100% doesn't mean its 5% chance to drop. They might drop it down to 50%. A 1/2 chance at a BB item isn't that bad. Of course, I'm assuming they aren't dropping it down to a 5% drop rate.

Gonna go with 50% since SE is out of the business of end-user torture now.

[MarkovChain]

People in Abyssea groups never help each other with those worthless Empyrean Weapon Items in Visions zones. Nope. No-sir-ee. People do all the weapons completely solo. Yep. I solo Glavoid like a bawse.

I also solo all the NMs I need Empyrean Armor +2 items. Doesn't everyone? I can't think of a single reason why I'd help my friends with their NMs. Nope, not at all.

And if a friend asks for help with HQ Turtle for their final BB item, I'll spit in their face. If they want it badly enough they'll solo it.

Geez Pchan, are you that unfamiliar with the concept of friendship?

Lol @ concept of friendship. I bet all your LS s disbanded with abyssea. Lol@ internet friends. You didn't answer my question as to why the average joe or even friend would toos his 99 KS to you just for an poortunity at maybe a BB item. Unlike what your previous post makes it sound, 1x 99 seal is not guarranted 2 chance at a BB item since the HQ is not 100%. No item is better than defending, THEREFORE noone wille give or sell yuou their seals. PERIOD.

[Eeek]

Nope stop copying the orginal poster of this topic you simpleton and go look at the main page it is said how i quoted it.


Infact i'll make it easier for you

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5774

You see * At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle. I big red like that underneath fafnir, behemoth and ada. Nothing like that under the hq kings so stop pretending you know more than anyone else at the moment cause you don't stupid woman.

Fine. You got me. I didn't notice that the OP misquoted SE's announcement. I'm sure the triggers for the HQs will have a decent to good droprate, and if they don't, players will rage so hard that it'll soon be patched.

That doesn't change the fact that this update to KS99s and Kings is still a million times better than the old HNM system we've all come to know and hate.

[Sayelle]

/facedesk



For all the Galka in the house, this what what SE means:

KS99 “Early Bird Catches the Wyrm” will drop one trigger (or more!) for Fafnir.
Fafnir will drop one trigger (or more!) for Nidhogg.

KS99 “Horns of War” will drop one trigger (or more!) for Benemoth.
Behemoth will drop one trigger (or more!) for King Behemoth.

KS99 “The Hills are Alive” will drop one trigger (or more!) for Adamantoise.
Adamantoise will drop one trigger (or more!) for Aspidochelone.

SE went back and edited the original post to clarify it, this updated is not reflected in the OP of this thread. You're just making yourself look dumb.

[Ravensbane]

Um... I guess you didn't read this before you posted it...


If you read the post HQ Pop item isnt 100% they only put the disclaimer for the at least 100% on the ksnm 99's. So you can do 6 KSNM's and get 6 pops for NQ and do 6 NQ's and get 0-1 hq pops. This is how SE works dont fool yourself into thinking you'll get 100% HQ pops. I am HAPPY not concerned about the removal from NQ's because I dont think every monk deserves a black belt. I feel like the blackbelt is your right of passage and you need to earn it through gil or camping/claiming the nms yourself.


I have thought this adjustment through and the point of this is to open the nms up to the public. HNM LS's that bot claimed had access to all three nms every day of the week for years. Why is it silly to give people access to all three nm's once every three days instead of making them only have access to one of the three nms as long as they have 99 ks's and the ppl to do the ksnm. This is a system that will open up access to these nms only so long as they have ks's and that wont last long with ppl having to shell out 99 a pop for one try at an hq pop. I'd rather if they were going to open it up to the public that they'd give us similar access as the hnm bot ls's had.


"...right of passage... earned through gil..." Seriously? This is why the HNM ls's camped the things so much. Idiots that think it is EARNING the BB by paying someone to use RMT like methods to get them the items is just... ... moronic. Sorry, I stuck idiots and moronic in the same sentence... Why not make it so we can just buy the BB for 6mil from an npc, if using gil is a justified "right of passage"?

[MarkovChain]

We've already covered why this update will make it easier for MNKs to get a Black Belt, so there's no reason to go back over it.


Jesus you are an idiot.

[Eeek]

SE went back and edited the original post to clarify it, this updated is not reflected in the OP of this thread. You're just making yourself look dumb.

How so? I didn't see any posts by SE saying "Oops! That was a typo." I'm not following all their posts to see when they edit something unannounced.

[Eeek]

Nope stop copying the orginal poster of this topic you simpleton and go look at the main page it is said how i quoted it.


Infact i'll make it easier for you

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5774

You see * At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle. In big red like that underneath Fafnir, Behemoth and Ada. Nothing like that under the hq kings so stop pretending you know more than anyone else at the moment cause you don't stupid woman.

Ninja edit on SE's part. I didn't know they typo'd and changed it.

And despite alllllllll the evidence to the contrary over the years, it's still funny to see players who assume all Mithra are women.

Can I borrow your K-Club for some skilling up? I'll give it right back when I'm done! =^.^=

[Gallus]

People actually expected that they wouldn't adjust drop rate on BB item? Let's get real. If they didn't, they'd pretty much be handing everyone a BB with a night's work. While the drop rate is kinda crappy in the KS99, and NQ kings aren't much better, you'd still be giving people 2~3 shots at an item on something that's going to be spammed like crazy. While you'd still have situations where people still get boned on their drop, you'd also have situations where back-to-back 3 items are dropping. They'd end up getting handed out like Halloween candy.

Oh, and the beauty of this update for average joes is it'll give them a very accessible source of gil. I'm sure you'll find plenty of people willing to shell out big bucks for the KS you've accrued just playing around.

[Deadvinta]

I was for this until I saw the adjusted drop rate for Black Belt items...

[Denabond]

I was for this until I saw the adjusted drop rate for Black Belt items...
As I said earlier, the reduced drop rate could be simply be down to 50%. Still a good chance for it to drop.

[Eeek]

I was for this until I saw the adjusted drop rate for Black Belt items...

A few of my friends still don't have Black Belts. Back in the day, they passed BB items all time since they never thought they'd level a melee job, much less MNK. I'll be thrilled once they get their belts, and God knows I'll blow a lot of KS to help them do it.

[Sparthos]

The butthurt around here is commendable considering that this is an improvement over the old system where at best one person would get a BB item from kings - assuming Behe/Fafnir/Adamantoise dropped items which they mostly don't.

Nothing has really changed except now you can use those thousands of KS that have piled up over the years towards KS99 where most MNKs have been getting their BB items, get an NQ king pop which could lead to an HQ pop where you end up getting the BB item. Under the old system if you didn't get the BB item @KS99 you were done.

Now you have leverage to get people to help you with BB items (hi gaiz, i got ebodies and nlegs if you come help me) and overall if you don't feel like doing this just get a Twilight Belt, +2 your MNK set, unlock Victory Smite and enjoy no huge difference between yourself and a BB MNK.

[JovialRat]

I like this idea because it pretty much destroyes those Bot Claimers herherherherher,
but.... a simplier way would have just made the KSNMs the HQ version, get rid of the NMs in the zone and just put them in the KSNM. and have w/e they dropped fall in KSNMs.
ksnm - hqNM - BB items , ad.hauberk. etc... of course the items drop is not 100%.

[Selzak]

SE @ MNK:

hey, i herd u couldn't get ur black belt...LOL!


Seriously, this is way worse. KS99 for the pop makes it a small step backwards. This makes the mechanics much more practical for the times, but they applied it in such a ridiculous way. They should have just left the drop rates alone, because requiring us to jump through two hoops for a chance at getting a chance to get the item is just silly. Especially when we're playing with KS99...

[blowfin]

How many people have bragged about KS? "gaiz, i have like 700 KS hurp derp"

Now we can ask them. "Have you got your Black Belt yet?"

Seriously though I think this change is just fine. Maintains Black Belt as a difficult to obtain item while removing many of the bad parts of camping the kings. Gives people a reason to burn through those KSNM's too. I don't think the drop rate is going to be as bad as people might be thinking, particularly with pop items being 100% drop from both the KSNM and the NQ. We also have to consider that demand for kings might actually be quite high if the upcoming synergy system for older armor offers decent upgrades.

I did call the whining about the changes a while ago though.... pretty spot on if I do say so myself.

The bad news for a lot of people will probably be that they might have to still put in some hard work to fight them (kings).

[Greatguardian]

I'm still in absolute awe of the fact that Pchan is seemingly incapable of grasping the concept of doing people a favor with no strings attached. Jesus. I don't need another Pixie Earring. If a friend of mine needed a BB I'd gladly toss some seals their way.

[Kindra]

Not that this really applies to me since I have my BB, but I have seen many say that KS's are so easy to get. I would love to have your luck with them then please lol. I am lucky to get 9 if I spend hours killing stuff. While I understand that this update makes some happy I can also see why some are not to pleased. I agree that POP NM is a good idea. Farming KS's is a pain though(that's based off of my luck with them lol). This update will take more time then just camping the HNM's.

Now if they would keep the HQ at 100% drop rate, given that people will have a harder time getting to the HQ, it will make it all worth it :).

[MarkovChain]

Nothing has really changed except now you can use those thousands of KS that have piled up over the years towards KS99 where most MNKs have been getting their BB items, get an NQ king pop which could lead to an HQ pop where you end up getting the BB item. Under the old system if you didn't get the BB item @KS99 you were done.


What ? If we go by 50% droparate on the BB item from the HQ KIng, and 50% droprate for the HQ king pop item, you are looking at 400 seals per item or 1200 seals total, and you are not guarranted ANYTHING. This is the most optimistic droprate that you can think of otherwise they would not bother putting a droprate at all. I don't think many peope have 1200 seals to burn in the first place, and secondly it won"t be 50% and 50%.

[MarkovChain]

I'm still in absolute awe of the fact that Pchan is seemingly incapable of grasping the concept of doing people a favor with no strings attached. Jesus. I don't need another Pixie Earring. If a friend of mine needed a BB I'd gladly toss some seals their way.

No you won't, like every other greedy player (check your sig) you will burn your seal and try to get a Defending ring. Question : did you give your empyrean WEAPON pops to a friend to farm him his empyreal weapon? Or did you use them first then helped him get his ? Yup you will do the same, and everyone else will do the same, with KS99. They'll try for them first. And since D ring will never drop, well you know the sequel. I think you are just a little naive about friendship on the internet. Fafnir and adamantoise will not be farm by anyone by monk, and behemtoh will be spammed like hell, is all that will happen.

[Sparthos]

What ? If we go by 50% droparate on the BB item from the HQ KIng, and 50% droprate for the HQ king pop item, you are looking at 400 seals per item or 1200 seals total, and you are not guarranted ANYTHING. This is the most optimistic droprate that you can think of otherwise they would not bother putting a droprate at all. I don't think many peope have 1200 seals to burn in the first place, and secondly it won"t be 50% and 50%.

Which is still an improvement over the old system where if you didn't get the drop from the KS99 NM, you lost all your seals.

New system gives people who don't care for BB incentive to use KS for other crappy drops which benefits MNK indirectly.

Again, if you don't like the changes get +2MNK gear, Twilight Belt and ignore Black Belt.

[Greatguardian]

No you won't, like every other greedy player (check your sig) you will burn your seal and try to get a Defending ring.

The fuck is "greedy" about my sig? I can tell you right now I don't really give a shit about a Dring. Everyone knows KB only drops Pixie Earrings. I'd rather spend what seals I have getting some Nlegs for my Almace buddy's CDC set than on a Dex+3 earring.

Since you ninja edited:

No you won't, like every other greedy player (check your sig) you will burn your seal and try to get a Defending ring. Question : did you give your empyrean WEAPONS pops to a friend to farm him his epryeal weapon? or did you use them first then help him ? Yup you will do the same, and everyone else will do the same, with KS99. They'll try for them first. And since D ring will never drop, well you know the sequel. I think you are just a little naive about friendship on the internet.

Actually, I farmed my Verethragna and my friend's Almace simultaneously. We both finished 24 hours apart, mainly because we had to sleep/work/etc. Afterwards we finished our third friend's Almace for BLU despite getting nothing from him out of it. I've also given up Carabosse pops that I was using for my Armageddon in order to help another friend out with his Masamune.

I think you're just a jaded, cynical Frenchman with no friends. So, I guess we're even.

[MarkovChain]

The fuck is "greedy" about my sig?

sigworthy



I can tell you right now I don't really give a shit about a Dring. Everyone knows KB only drops Pixie Earrings. I'd rather spend what seals I have getting some Nlegs for my Almace buddy's CDC set than on a Dex+3 earring.


Stop with your retarded pixie earring, bro, it was never good. And PLEASE, don't put put N legs on the level as D ring. Level increase is VERY likely to bring better legs items, it is very unlikely to bring anything better than black belt or defending ring.

[Eeek]

What ? If we go by 50% droparate on the BB item from the HQ KIng, and 50% droprate for the HQ king pop item, you are looking at 400 seals per item or 1200 seals total, and you are not guarranted ANYTHING. This is the most optimistic droprate that you can think of otherwise they would not bother putting a droprate at all. I don't think many peope have 1200 seals to burn in the first place, and secondly it won"t be 50% and 50%.

You completely missed a huge factor in your 'calculations.'

Most people have these things called 'friends,' and their 'friends' will also want to do KS99s, NQ Kings, and HQ Kings for drops other than the BB items. Some MNKs have 'friends' who will use 100s of KS to help them get the BB item, on say, the Turtle path. There exist plenty of people in FFXI who aren't total dickwads, and these people will either sell or give away unwanted BB items at the Kings camps.

All these factors combined drastically improves the chances for MNKs to get needed BB items.

[MarkovChain]

Which is still an improvement over the old system where if you didn't get the drop from the KS99 NM, you lost all your seals.

New system gives people who don't care for BB incentive to use KS for other crappy drops which benefits MNK indirectly.

Again, if you don't like the changes get +2MNK gear, Twilight Belt and ignore Black Belt.

At least in the old system you could buy it by offering enough gil, assuming people actually camped this shit which I doubt.

[viion]

Now we can ask them. "Have you got your Black Belt yet?"

Seriously though I think this change is just fine. Maintains Black Belt as a difficult to obtain item while removing many of the bad parts of camping the kings. Gives people a reason to burn through those KSNM's too. I don't think the drop rate is going to be as bad as people might be thinking, particularly with pop items being 100% drop from both the KSNM and the NQ. We also have to consider that demand for kings might actually be quite high if the upcoming synergy system for older armor offers decent upgrades.

I did call the whining about the changes a while ago though.... pretty spot on if I do say so myself.

What ? lol

Only the KSNM Pop item is 100%, the NQ one isnt.

So the path is:
Run around fighting mobs to get 99 KS's
Fight KSNM (Requiring friends i guess?) for 100% drop on pop
Fight NQ for a RANDOM drop of HQ
Fight HQ (Requiring friends also) for a RANDOM+DECREASED drop of the Black-belt item.

So you cant really do this solo like you could before. And the drop rate is decreased

[Greatguardian]

sigworthy

Well don't leave me in suspense.


Stop with your retarded pixie earring, bro, it was never good. And PLEASE, don't put put N legs on the level as D ring. Level increase is VERY likely to bring better legs items, it is very unlikely to bring anything better than black belt or defending ring.

Wat? No shit it was never good. That's why I'm not bothering with KB. The changes of getting a Dring instead of that absolutely worthless Earring are slim to none. I'm not going to waste my time with it. As for Nlegs, they're the current best in slot for Chant du Cygne on Paladin last I checked. If there's something better, I'd love to hear about it (saves me time and seals). Frankly, I don't have anything better to spend my seals on regardless.

[MarkovChain]

You completely missed a huge factor in your 'calculations.'

Most people have these things called 'friends,' and their 'friends' will also want to do KS99s, NQ Kings, and HQ Kings for drops other than the BB items. Some MNKs have 'friends' who will use 100s of KS to help them get the BB item, on say, the Turtle path. There exist plenty of people in FFXI who aren't total dickwads, and these people will either sell or give away unwanted BB items at the Kings camps.

All these factors combined drastically improves the chances for MNKs to get needed BB items.

Why would friends of friends want to do KS99 (except for D ring, again). The drops are garbage if you are not a mnk without black belt. iIf anything friends of friends would would want black belt for themselves. If those bcnm or hnm dropped anything valuable like gil item or any good rare/ex, I would believe you. If they wanted to fix the old content this way they are running into a wall because abyssea gives ABSOLUTELY no reason to do thoses NM or KSNMs.

[CrystalWeapon]

Willing to bet if they dropped the KSNMs down to a new teir KSNM 10, made all the drops 100%, and gave you icecream after finishing off the HQ HNM people would still complain.

From what I've read there was no word on the KSNM having their BB items removed. So you have a chance of obtaining it there. There's a 100% chance of getting (at least one) of the pop items for the NQ. The NQ mobs have a chance of dropping a HQ nm pop, but no longer have their BB items. Look at it this way, before when you did the KSNM to try to get your BB item, you had no second chance. With it set up like this, you still have a chance to get it from the KSNM + you get a second chance at your BB item if you're lucky enough to get a HQ spawn drop from the NQ. Then finally onto the HQ, they did not say how drastically they would reduce the droprate.

There's no point in complaining before you know the full details. The way I see it you now have more than one chance at getting the BB item from doing the KSNMs than you did before. You also don't have to compete with other people anymore if you want to try for the HNMs items. Could it be made easier? Yes. Is it worse than what's in place now? Hell no.

[viion]

You completely missed a huge factor in your 'calculations.'

Most people have these things called 'friends,' and their 'friends' will also want to do KS99s, NQ Kings, and HQ Kings for drops other than the BB items. Some MNKs have 'friends' who will use 100s of KS to help them get the BB item, on say, the Turtle path. There exist plenty of people in FFXI who aren't total dickwads, and these people will either sell or give away unwanted BB items at the Kings camps.

All these factors combined drastically improves the chances for MNKs to get needed BB items.

You also completely missed a huge factor lol his drop rates were OVERLY optimistic.

Also a lot of people just dont do these or have much reason to, nore level outside abyssea to even get KS.

[Kindra]

MarkovChain Friends don't always require that they get something out of helping their friend. Some people are just nice like that. :)

[Eeek]

Why would friends of friends want to do KS99 (except for D ring, again). The drops are garbage if you are not a mnk without black belt. iIf anything friends of friends would would want black belt for themselves. If those bcnm or hnm dropped anything valuable like gil item or any good rare/ex, I would believe you.

At this point, I kinda feel bad for Pchan. I say 'kinda' because, well, he is still Pchan.

The dude obviously does not understand the concept of friendship. He's either surrounded by horrible people or really does not have a single friend or any good people in his life.

[MarkovChain]

Willing to bet if they dropped the KSNMs down to a new teir KSNM 10, made all the drops 100%, and gave you icecream after finishing off the HQ HNM people would still complain.

From what I've read there was no word on the KSNM having their BB items removed. So you have a chance of obtaining it there. There's a 100% chance of getting (at least one) of the pop items for the NQ. The NQ mobs have a chance of dropping a HQ nm pop, but no longer have their BB items. Look at it this way, before when you did the KSNM to try to get your BB item, you had no second chance. With it set up like this, you still have a chance to get it from the KSNM + you get a second chance at your BB item if you're lucky enough to get a HQ spawn drop from the NQ. Then finally onto the HQ, they did not say how drastically they would reduce the droprate.

The new system is not a super imporvement of this unless the HQ mob really has a large chance at poping, which is not the impression we got from reading the dev message.



There's no point in complaining before you know the full details. The way I see it you now have more than one chance at getting the BB item from doing the KSNMs than you did before. You also don't have to compete with other people anymore if you want to try for the HNMs items. Could it be made easier? Yes. Is it worse than what's in place now? Hell no.

You are right, looking at it this way it's a better system than the KSNM99 system from nowadays. Problem is noone was getting their black belt though this system in the first place because the droprate was pretty shit ( I remember doing 6-7 of them a few years ago with no drop, not even money drops lol). I you expect to get BB item just from KS99 right now you are probably looking at like 5 bcnms per item if not unlucky, that's 1500 kindred seals which take years to get, and you are not guarranted anything.

[Korpg]

People are going to complain regardless of anything.

If SE changes the drop rate of BB items to 100% KS99, people are going to bitch about getting Black Belt being "too easy" and if they say that the drop rate of BB items for HQ NMs being at 50% people are going to bitch about getting Black Belt being "too hard"

Why not rejoice at the fact that this will hurt the HNM bots a whole lot more now than ever while giving those who either wish to not use bots or have other things to do (family, friends, work, life) than to camp a possible pop.

[Sparthos]

At least in the old system you could buy it by offering enough gil, assuming people actually camped this shit which I doubt.

And you can't offer gil through the new system by sitting in Aery/BD/VoS and watching alot (don't even try to spin this that ppl wont pop more than a single HQ over 3-9 days) more people pop HQ and get BB item drops? This benefits people who want to throw gil at shit as well.

Hell, you could sit in KS99 zones now since the popularity of spamming these runs will increase at least for the first week or two before people tap out on kindred seals.

tl;dr BB just got easier, quit QQin.

[blowfin]

What ? lol

Only the KSNM Pop item is 100%, the NQ one isnt.

So the path is:
Run around fighting mobs to get 99 KS's
Fight KSNM (Requiring friends i guess?) for 100% drop on pop
Fight NQ for a RANDOM drop of HQ
Fight HQ (Requiring friends also) for a RANDOM+DECREASED drop of the Black-belt item.

So you cant really do this solo like you could before. And the drop rate is decreased

So they ninja edited the update, sue me. It`s 100% on NQ and something else for HQ. Which we don`t know yet, which means any numbers being thrown about any drop rates are pure speculation.

Some speculation of my own though (and i`m scarily accurate): I`d say you still have a better chance of getting your item from the HQ king than claiming any of the current HNM and getting the drop. Plus they don`t seem to be planning to remove BB items from the KS fights themselves.

Also, If you could solo it, why haven`t you done it yet?

[Kindra]

Bots are really no longer a concern as far as kings go, Since most HNM's aren't camping them like they used to.

[Vaughn]

I'm honestly embarrassed for the people complaining about this change, how hard is it for you to understand their motives?

Camping kings is still hard (if there's any competition for the spawn) and very time consuming, and SE doesn't want you to be able to force your feelings of entitlement on your LS/friends just because you stood in Abyssea for a day on a certain job.

If you're still having trouble understanding this, I'll give an example. Pretend this is 2003/2004. If you're in an LS that is completing DOMINATING at claiming spawns, you're more likely to level a new job just to be able to collect gear from your LS.

It's putting an infinite workload on the people around you just because something is/became easier (claims back then, leveling jobs now)

The people who are still highly committed to their newly leveled job will either spend their KS's accordingly, or plow through mobs solo for their chance at king gear.

[Staren]

Um... I guess you didn't read this before you posted it...




"...right of passage... earned through gil..." Seriously? This is why the HNM ls's camped the things so much. Idiots that think it is EARNING the BB by paying someone to use RMT like methods to get them the items is just... ... moronic. Sorry, I stuck idiots and moronic in the same sentence... Why not make it so we can just buy the BB for 6mil from an npc, if using gil is a justified "right of passage"?

It was a right of passage because not only did you have to find the gil or do the ksnm's or claim an nq and pray for a drop (which I got my tongue from an nq drop and my beard through ksnm I had to buy my egg). So yes I consider it a right of passage showing up for nq pop windows and making sure you were on for the hq for a chance to buy it everyday for a month or two. For people who think its so easy to buy a blackbelt get the money and try to get it faster than a month. Other than luck being on your side or already being in one of the hnm ls's I doubt it would happen. So think before you call someone moronic. Because some of us earned our black belts. Not everyone completely buys one.

[Rabidelly]

This just... ugh.... sucks. Since things aren't camped much at all anymore, this seems really unnecessary. Currently, if you want something from hnm you just need some friends who are willing to show up and help you out. With this update, you have to use 99 (seriously?) kindred seals to simply get a pop item (most of the other drops aren't worth all that much now, iirc) and then another fight to get your drop. Given how long it takes to get 99 seals (remember how long it took when you did xp on non-abyssean mobs?) this just makes it harder, I would think, to get said items.

I'm all for pop items used for some nm's, but they should have done this a long time ago when it actually would have mattered. I also think if they made it 40 or 50 seals or something like that rather than 99, it would be a better solution. Just glad I got what I needed from them a long time ago...

[Vold]

I don't understand why they couldn't have just had us killing the surrounding monsters at the pop locations to get pop items. It works great on other monsters they adjusted awhile back like Alky.

Now, I say this as a person who currently doesn't really need anything off of these kings, though a abj or two might be okay for completion sake but still... I feel this is a terrible system. Requiring 99 KS aside, the turtle is still a bitch to this day. I don't even know what the point is at this point to even changing these HNM pop conditions. There aren't many people camping them. Yeah, sure, okay. They don't roam for days at a time but still.

And I'm not sure how this change is supposed to drag people back to other areas of the game so I don't know why that is even brought up by people. It drags monks back into the rest of the game. That's about it. I mean, it's great that SE is finally giving in but it's 8 years too late. Tons of casual players have waited years for the hardcore playerbase to move on from HNMs. They were blocked for so very long. Now they are free to go after them only for the game to be changed up at this point and make it even HARDER for them to attain the items they've wanted for ages. That is why this change hurts. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Killing darters or manticores or ..... or.... oh.... right.... KB doesn't have jack squat in his area to kill. At least not EP wise. I really hope KSNM wasn't their answer to the lack of mobs to kill for pop items in KBs hometown. Like seriously just let the too weaks drop it.... anyways killing monsters around the pop areas "should" be the way to go, with NQ drop rates lowered severely(namely Fafnir and ridill), with HQ pop items from that being low drop rates. But it's like whatever to me, I don't actually need anything from these things aside from abj for my collection and a defending ring, and the ring isn't worth my time right now. Got too much to do and too little time to do it all. But I feel bad for people who were blocked for so many years only to be blocked yet again by SE. Good luck killing the KS NMs, is all I can say. I guess it's better to at least have a chance than none at all, in regards to the level cap raise, for what it's worth.

And phew, glad I hit up Fafnir/Nidhogg before this change went in.

[Korpg]

Who knows, maybe they might lower the rate of seals used to get orbs to enter these battlefields....

...or convert the seals to crests

Maybe gives us alternate ways to obtain the orbs. Like 99 KSs, OR 50 KCs, OR 25 HKCs.

[Greatguardian]

I don't understand why they couldn't have just had us killing the surrounding monsters at the pop locations to get pop items. It works great on other monsters they adjusted awhile back like Alky.-snip-

Dring flooding and ??? crowding would reach record highs. Behemoth's Dominion would become the new Port Gukumatz's Aery.

[Korpg]

Dring flooding and ??? crowding would reach record highs. Behemoth's Dominion would become the new Port Gukumatz's Aery.

Good, that means I can get shit done 1-3 weeks after the update without having to worry about people trying to kill me

[Madmax]

This has got to be the stupidest kick in the face SE has done yet, it was hard enough to get a black belt before, now they want to make it near impossible. Do a 99ksnm so you can get a pop item that does not guarantee the HQ version will pop and it is no longer a 100% drop. And no chance at all if the NQ version pops. Very disappointing SE........... Kinda like FFXIV.
I don't know about most of you but I have already dropped about 500 KS trying to get the items from the KSNM battlefields with no luck at all. Guess now It'll cost me millions to buy other people's orbs for the KSNM so i have about a 1 in 50 chance at getting 1 of the 3 items needed. /disgusted.

[Korpg]

This has got to be the stupidest kick in the face SE has done yet, it was hard enough to get a black belt before, now they want to make it near impossible. Do a 99ksnm so you can get a pop item that does not guarantee the HQ version will pop and it is no longer a 100% drop. And no chance at all if the NQ version pops. Very disappointing SE........... Kinda like FFXIV.
I don't know about most of you but I have already dropped about 500 KS trying to get the items from the KSNM battlefields with no luck at all. Guess now It'll cost me millions to buy other people's orbs for the KSNM so i have about a 1 in 50 chance at getting 1 of the 3 items needed. /disgusted.

Assuming that the BB item also will be removed from the KSNM99. Then you would be right.

[Sparthos]

It said nothing about KS99 BB items being removed.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

[SNK]

Give me a reason for people that don't want BB to waste their seal on Fafnir or Adamantoise.

You act as if people don't like to help friends obtain gear.

[Staren]

What happens when people run out of seals? How are you planning on farming more? This has ramifications outside of people helping other people. What happens when you got through over 1k seals to help someone and nobody has anymore? You gonna go spend hours on end farming ks's? This system puts an expiration date on kings if anything.

[blowfin]

What happens when people run out of seals? How are you planning on farming more? This has ramifications outside of people helping other people. What happens when you got through over 1k seals to help someone and nobody has anymore? You gonna go spend hours on end farming ks's? This system puts an expiration date on kings if anything.

You go kill mobs, it's not rocket surgery. Very similar to y'know, the magian trials we've all put ourselves through for the last 9 months.

[Denabond]

What happens when people run out of seals? How are you planning on farming more? This has ramifications outside of people helping other people. What happens when you got through over 1k seals to help someone and nobody has anymore? You gonna go spend hours on end farming ks's? This system puts an expiration date on kings if anything.
Because farming up KSs is hard. No seriously, its so hard i cant do it while i go make some elemental TotM weapons.

[Staren]

Do you know the average time estimation for it? Can you say its a valid ROI? I avoid the hell out of magian trials with the exceptions of empyrean armor and empyrean weapons. The rest are just great ways to blow time and I guess farm ks's. I wonder what that time sink would be solo 1 per 5 mins x 99 for 1 pop that might not drop the hq pop which is what you really want and then you need at least a couple other people. I mean if you're at home in mom and dad's basement and dont have a job or school or responsibilities...I guess this would seem feasible and acceptable for people who wanted pops for Kings. I know the most efficient way to do it but that still is a best case scenario of 2.5hrs for one pop. So again ROI, level of reasonable time invested, 99% of the games population doesnt have the patience to level outside abby anymore good luck convincing people to waste over 3 hrs of their life for one ksnm run and one chance at an hq pop item.

[Korpg]

Do you know the average time estimation for it? Can you say its a valid ROI? I avoid the hell out of magian trials with the exceptions of empyrean armor and empyrean weapons. The rest are just great ways to blow time and I guess farm ks's. I wonder what that time sink would be solo 1 per 5 mins x 99 for 1 pop that might not drop the hq pop which is what you really want and then you need at least a couple other people. I mean if you're at home in mom and dad's basement and dont have a job or school or responsibilities...I guess this would seem feasible and acceptable for people who wanted pops for Kings. I know the most efficient way to do it but that still is a best case scenario of 2.5hrs for one pop. So again ROI, reason ability, 99% of the games population doesnt have the patience to level outside abby anymore good luck convincing people to waste over 3 hrs of their life for one ksnm run and one chance at an hq pop item.

I guess if nothing else drops from KSNM99/NQ/HQ, then you would be right.

[Denabond]

Do you know the average time estimation for it? Can you say its a valid ROI? I avoid the hell out of magian trials with the exceptions of empyrean armor and empyrean weapons. The rest are just great ways to blow time and I guess farm ks's. I wonder what that time sink would be solo 1 per 5 mins x 99 for 1 pop that might not drop the hq pop which is what you really want and then you need at least a couple other people. I mean if you're at home in mom and dad's basement and dont have a job or school or responsibilities...I guess this would seem feasible and acceptable for people who wanted pops for Kings. I know the most efficient way to do it but that still is a best case scenario of 2.5hrs for one pop. So again ROI, reason ability, 99% of the games population doesnt have the patience to level outside abby anymore good luck convincing people to waste over 3 hrs of their life for one ksnm run and one chance at an hq pop item.
At least now people who have lives can slowly work on getting pops for a chance at the item rather then being unable to since they cant be on when they pop. Sure they can just reduce the pop time to 2.5 hours for each of them, but then really that's just handing out BB on a silver platter. Let it some rareity to it.

[Staren]

At least now people who have lives can slowly work on getting pops for a chance at the item rather then being unable to since they cant be on when they pop. Sure they can just reduce the pop time to 2.5 hours for each of them, but then really that's just handing out BB on a silver platter. Let it some rareity to it.

I agree with you there I'm not advocating against opening the pops to the public. I just wish it was more like I guess Nyzul kings you could do them once per day they have a shitty drop rate for nq and or drops and then everyone could access them. I like the ENM suggestion even more all three once every 3 days and a little bit better of a drop rate. Not saying dont give us the ability to do them. Just give us the ability to do them reasonably.

[viion]

Whipped up a quick app to simulate it to see results.

Set:
- 22% Drop rate from KSNM (from Clopedia)
- 50% Drop rate from HQHNM (Used to be 100%, but now decreased)
- 10% Drop rate of HQTrigger
(Remember this NM was like 3-7 days? so they dont want u popping like 2-3 HQ's a day, i wouldnt be surprised if this was going to be a lot less than 10%)

Results: after 100 BB Items
Average required seals 1200
Average Attempts 13
Average Fights = 50

[Ezikiel]

i like this idea it gives u reason to get rid of bseals and all pl can get good items do 12 man aaliance thats 12 runs of KSNM99 everyone will get pop ittem and other items to sell or whatever thats great for a LS event

[SNK]

Honestly getting BB items just got much easier. You get 2 damn chances at your item instead of one. The Kings themselves arn't being adjusted in toughness either. If you can't kill Kings @ level 90 with a lowman group then you really need to wonder if you really will put that Black Belt to good use.

The amount of QQIng about this is seriously amazing. Some of the posts I've read are outright retarded and foolish. A Black Belt is still one of the best items in the game. I hate to come off sounding like an elitist but I'm happy that the method while easier isn't something everyone is going obtain.

A Black Belt is still considered by most a commitment of being a MNK. It shouldn't be handed out like cake like some of you people are asking for.

[viion]

i like this idea it gives u reason to get rid of bseals and all pl can get good items do 12 man aaliance thats 12 runs of KSNM99 everyone will get pop ittem and other items to sell or whatever thats great for a LS event

Yah 12 peeps could on average get 1 BB item for 1 person, tbh not bad if you have ls/friends willing to do that and there aint like 10 people after BB lol

[Sparthos]

Honestly getting BB items just got much easier. You get 2 damn chances at your item instead of one. The Kings themselves arn't being adjusted in toughness either. If you can't kill Kings @ level 90 with a lowman group then you really need to wonder if you really will put that Black Belt to good use.

The amount of QQIng about this is seriously amazing. Some of the posts I've read are outright retarded and foolish. A Black Belt is still one of the best items in the game. I hate to come off sounding like an elitist but I'm happy that the method while easier isn't something everyone is going obtain.

A Black Belt is still considered by most a commitment of being a MNK. It shouldn't be handed out like cake like some of you people are asking for.

^

A voice of reason has appeared, like a shining beacon of light piercing the cloud of stupidity.

If you don't want to commit to a BB, Brown/Twilight Belt MNKs can compete just fine. What is so hard for people to understand?

[Starcade]

A Black Belt is still considered by most a commitment of being a MNK. It shouldn't be handed out like cake like some of you people are asking for.

You forget that most people at that "elitism" equate commitment to the game to how much you're willing to pay for a good bot.

[Starcade]

You act as if people don't like to help friends obtain gear.

Depends on how those people define "friends".

I'd say your statement reflects this playerbase a lot more than you believe it to.

[viion]

Honestly getting BB items just got much easier. You get 2 damn chances at your item instead of one

Are you being serious? Or did you forget that before you had 3 chances before?

Random NQ King
Random KSNM
100% HQNM

now

Random KSNM
Random HQNM

[Sparthos]

Yet only one group could benefit from the HQ per week. The NQ droprate was a freakin joke and KS99 remains the same.

The new system allows MORE people to finish through increased opportunity.

You lose the negligible NQ rate, you get to pop this stuff on your own time and get a second chance on the KS99, arguably the most casual way to get a BB.

Also with people rushing popkings for other loot, the chances of getting a BB also increase with people spawning who have no interest in BB items. This previously would have been people who just sat on kindred seals as KS99 only benefits MNKs atm.

Many people will finish their BB now at the KS99 stage when groups pop for HQ king trigs and eventually cap out on BB items or simply don't care. This can translate to handing out BB items or charging for them, both superior to the previous once/day system.