The reality of your subscription fee for FFXI

[Pixela]

I think a lot of people have this weird mindset about FFXI, how much buying power your $12 has and what is possible.

Inflation means money loses value over time (not going to go into why but we are about to have a massive decrease in the value of our money soon - printers go brrr), which means a loaf of bread or jar of coffee costs more more today than it did 10 years ago. Prices and your wages increased with inflation all the time, which means this increase does not hurt you.

Go ask your granny how much bread and coffee used to cost and then look how much they cost now.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

FFXI has never increase the price of it's subscription with inflation, which honestly is crazy to me. They are losing money and due to this the game is less profitable today than it was 15 years ago even if it had the same amount of players.

If the FFXI subscription fee raised with inflation (as everything else in the world does) it would cost today $16.44. This means, that in real terms you are paying 37% LESS for your subscription than you were 15 years ago and that they are getting less money from you.

So:
2004 price = $12
2021 price should be = $16.44

This means you're getting the game 37% cheaper than you used to, even though the numbers look the same. Other games offset this loss with cash shop sales, FFXI does not have the core infrastructure to support a cash shop.

To try and counter this they have added mog wardrobes to try increase how much you pay in-line with inflation, to get the same amount of money that they used to. This is however not compulsory so many do not and so just get the game 37% cheaper.

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Secondly, your $12 ($3 a week) a month doesn't even pay for 10 minutes of 1 single developers wages. The way the game makes money isn't from your $12, it's from tens to hundreds of thousands of other people paying $12 and the combined force making a lot of money to pay wages.

As such, if the game has less subscribers today than it did 10 years ago they can't have a big team on it as they used to. They can't pay their salary.

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Lastly, developers work with specific engines. Most of the developers at SquareEnix that work on other projects are proficient with and experienced with the current engines they use, they almost never work with the engine FFXI was made with. As such they can't just ask one of the programming team from another game at the company to come make changes to the core programming of FFXI as some other game can. This is why things such as the 56k cap etc can't easily be changed.

It would be like being used to working with photoshop in 2020 at your company and then your boss telling you he wants you to make a new ad to be sent to the papers, but instead of using photoshop you had to use corel draw from 2005. Are you still going to be able to create that artwork in an hour and will it still be at an acceptable quality?

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They can still add content, they can still make changes but core features of the game are far harder to change and so far more expensive and time consuming than you would think they are.

The fact the game is still getting updates is a minor miracle and a testament to the love the developers and we have for the game, they could easily go work on something else or just retire if they wanted to. One of the people that used to work for FFXI decided to move to go work on the FF7 remake 4-5 years ago for example.

This is not to say we should not ask for new things and expect the best, this is to say you have to understand the reality of the situation too.

TLDR: FFXI does not increase its sub price with inflation, so you're probably paying less and the combined income of all the players is less than it used to be.

Have realistic expectations of what is possible.

[Leny]

You forget to mention that while your sub should cost more due to inflation.

Your sub should cost less because you get less for it. Remember back when they actually did stuff, and there was stuff to do, and an at least attempt at balance. yeah, that was worth 12.95 So now the sub costs $16 but they don't even put in enough work to earn $12 of it. Balance.

[Pixela]

Your post makes no sense firstly since I already stated they make less money, also they actually give us far more updates now for the sub fee than they ever did in the past.

Almost everything they added in previous years was directly linked to the expansions we paid for. Also they certainly did not update the game monthly, it was every 3 months at best.

They would release an expansion that we paid for, with barren zones. Then slowly add the content for those expansions over the next 2-3 years.

[Leny]

Quality > Quantity

All 12 updates for 2020 did what exactly? 1 content patch. 0 job updates. 0 balance patches. 3 or 4 bug fixes? Back when they were 3 months apart things actually happened.

[Tsukihika]

It's not like SE has kept the quality of the game intact either to justify the 12€ monthly fee though. Back on the "golden era" we had support for multiple consoles (ps2, xbox, pc), we had tetra master (which i personally never bothered with but which has been removed?), they also got rid of pol email system if i remember correct, as well as support for several languages has been removed past few years. Sure these features were stripped from the game due to unpopularity but they were stripped nonetheless while keeping the original 12€ price intact. So we don't actually get the game cheaper compared to before, we simply get less for same price.

[Alhanelem]

I think the effect of inflation is balanced out by the amount of content. I'm not upset paying my $12.95, but I don't think I should be paying more than that just because the price has stayed the same for 18 years.

The extras like the Mog Wardrobe 3/4 that hardcore players use are where SE makes up any money perceived lost to inflation.

[Stompa]

... The fact the game is still getting updates is a minor miracle and a testament to the love the developers and we have for the game ...

I agree with your whole post, especially this quoted line.

FFXI is, and always was, extremely good Value For Money.

In my humble opinion, FFXI is the greatest computergame in the entire history of the Universe.

No other computergame comes even remotely close, to the majestical awesomeness of FFXI.

In a more sane world than Earth, FFXI would receive Permanent Worldwide Protected Status, as a Classic Masterpiece Genius Work Of Art.

I feel lucky that I am still paying FFXI Subs, because this means that I can still spend time in Vana'diel.

:cool:

[Alhanelem]

I agree with your whole post, especially this quoted line.

FFXI is, and always was, extremely good Value For Money.

In my humble opinion, FFXI is the greatest computergame in the entire history of the Universe.

No other computergame comes even remotely close, to the majestical awesomeness of FFXI.

In a more sane world than Earth, FFXI would receive Permanent Worldwide Protected Status, as a Classic Masterpiece Genius Work Of Art.

I feel lucky that I am still paying FFXI Subs, because this means that I can still spend time in Vana'diel.

:cool:
While I might not go QUITE that far, it has certainly been a magical experience that can't keep me away from it. Even after I take a break for a while, I always get this urge to come back. There's a lost art in this game that modern MMOs just lack. Everything has to be perfectl ybalacned and that sterilizes everything. FFXI showed you don't have to make everything the same to create a good experience, nor does every battle have to be viable for everything, as long as everything has a battle they can be a part of.

[Zehira]

Maybe SE could use our money to buy BTC. Currently, no one is losing coins.

[Pixela]

It's not like SE has kept the quality of the game intact either to justify the 12€ monthly fee though. Back on the "golden era" we had support for multiple consoles (ps2, xbox, pc), we had tetra master (which i personally never bothered with but which has been removed?), they also got rid of pol email system if i remember correct, as well as support for several languages has been removed past few years. Sure these features were stripped from the game due to unpopularity but they were stripped nonetheless while keeping the original 12€ price intact. So we don't actually get the game cheaper compared to before, we simply get less for same price.

As I stated, it's not the same price:

$12 is not worth $12, the value (what you can buy with it) changes every year due to inflation / deflation.

$12 today is worth 36% less than it was 18 yeas ago in real terms. So since you are paying 36% less of course you get less for your smaller sub, this is because they no longer make enough to pay all the wages of a large staff as they used to.

People have this idea that a dollar has a set value that never changes, this is not how it works. The value of a dollar changes all the time, this is why things increase in price and why your boss pays you more every year. It's not because they like you or hate you, it's because the dollar lost value.

If you opened a business 10 years ago and charged 100 people $10 a month, you would make a decent living.
If you kept your price at $10, 15 years later you would be making 36% less and would go out of business. To stay in business you would increase the fee to $14 to make the same real amount of money.

The number you charge has increased but the value of the dollar dropped so in real terms you are actually charging the same exact amount.

Short video explaining inflation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKZvm_fqYRM

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In the real world it's near constant inflation (the real value of your money drops), however in FFXI gil is undergoing massive deflation. What you can buy with your gil increased, so something that used to be worth 600k is now 300k. The value of the item you buy has not changed, the value of your gil has. Your gil is worth more now because there is less of it in circulation, due to the sparks nerf.

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Almost every company that exists increase prices with inflation, to make the same money now as they used to.
The reason FFXI, WOW and other similar games do not do this is because most of us are ignorant about inflation and would see it as a sub fee increase. Our ignorance is why the subscription model isn't really sustainable and why all games now add cash shops.

Most people that play FFXI and WoW do not understand inflation at all. They think $12 15 years ago is still worth the exact same amount as it is now.

Ironically, Covid could end up killing FFXI, WoW and FF14.

Covid has forced our governments to massively increase inflation due to throwing money at everything (over the coming years this is going to balloon out of control), this will cause massive inflation. All these companies are going to have to increase the sub free from $12 to $20 or go out of business (or find other ways to make money). For anyone that doesn't get it, this is why they want to add more mog wardrobes. Mog wardrobes = inflation measure for a customer base ignorant about inflation.

[Alhanelem]

$12 today is worth 36% less than it was 18 yeas ago in real terms.I should clarify this point you're making. The Federal Reserve has an inflation target of 2% per year. I.e. if it's higher than that, they apply measures to try to bring it back down. But it's usually considerably lower than 2% most years. So 18 years doesn't really mean 36 percent.

Even this last year with all the free money the government has printed for economic impact payments, our inflation rate over the last year has held near 2%. The US can actually print a remarkable amount of money before inflation is significantly affected.

[Pixela]

We are headed for hyper inflation, you have more trust in the fed / central banking system and politicians than I do. The next 4-8 years are going to be economically catastrophic in many ways.

[Zehira]

I agree. I don't support stimulus checks. If they are still going to get them then okay. Make me more money. Money money money. I didn't buy GameStop I lost enough money trading AMC. We stay at home playing money during the COVID.

Thank you Elon Musk for the money. Dogecoins. :o

I own my three accounts for FFXI and two accounts for FFXIV and I should pay more unless we are being taxed to death.

[Alhanelem]

We are headed for hyper inflation, you have more trust in the fed / central banking system and politicians than I do. The next 4-8 years are going to be economically catastrophic in many ways.
There is really no evidence for this kind of postulation. Countries that experienced a hyperinflation printed many times more money than their entire country was worth, and responded to the resulting problem by printing many times more money. That's not what's happening here. The Fed has many tools at their disposal to control inflation.

Remember, under normal circumstances, they try to maintain a 2% rate of inflation. It's usually lower than that and they implement measures to increase it, because extremely low inflation leads to stagnant industry growth. As I said before, even with the aid packages the government has doled out, we're still not anywhere near what could be called "hyperinflation."

To be clear, I'm not a big fan of more free money either. It should be more targeted. I work in a supermarket and financially, life is better for me than it's ever been because of a labor shortage in the sector combined with hazard pay due to the virus. The stimulus money for me is just going to things I want as my needs are better taken care of than ever (aside from the risk of getting the virus at work...). I don't trust the politicians much at all, but the federal reserve does its own thing and I have considerably more confidence in them.

While it's cool in a way to get a check from the gov't, I certainly don't need it, and I'm not in any way a rich person. If they're going to print the money anyway, give it to someone who needs it to survive.

[Pixela]

The amount of currency in circulation has literally doubled in the past year, doubled. This isn't even the end of it either, they are going to keep doing it. This is unheard of.

All this money the governments are giving to people, they are literally printing new money like never before. It's not current "real" money they are giving people, they are printing new money to give to people. They are playing monopoly with a laser printer.

The reason we aren't feeling it yet is because people aren't spending normally normally due to covid lockdowns, once people start spending money again it's going to explode. I worry this is part of the reason they are afraid to lift restrictions.

Ultimately we will see I suppose but I'm not hopeful they will be able to control this, if I was conspiracy minded I would think this is being done intentionally to bring in a new type of worldwide digital currency. What they are doing is that crazy.

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My main issue here with inflation at this level as I said isn't so much about normal life. I was pointing out that most MMO players do not understand inflation and will be furious if they are forced to "increase prices". Most people do not understand inflation / deflation and just see a price increase as a price increase.

They think $20 today (or next year) is worth the same as it was last year.

[Zehira]

If you know how cryptos are working, you are not losing money. Cryptos also are much easier than the stock market because you don't need to research you only know your math.

I have to say... It's not normal because I could make more money than a doctor's salary. Over 3,000% profit since Jan 3.

[Pixela]

Problem with putting all your eggs in the cryto basket is they could literally ban it overnight and replace it with their own national or international versions run by governments, or at least work towards it.

Other countries are already headed that way.

[Zehira]

Very possible. I already sold most of coins and will never go down so I won't be mad if I am losing so much money. I don't recommend cryptos unless you do at your own risk.

[Alhanelem]

Problem with putting all your eggs in the cryto basket is they could literally ban it overnight and replace it with their own national or international versions run by governments, or at least work towards it.

Other countries are already headed that way.

It could also literally crash overnight. Even though it's still higher now than it's ever been, it still has ups an downs.

[Zehira]

Dogecoin to the moon! :)

So far it is still doing good. Maybe worth if you want to invest in Dogecoin and HODL for a long term gain so you won't be taxed.

[Pixela]

I should clarify this point you're making. The Federal Reserve has an inflation target of 2% per year.

Was talking to a friend about this yesterday and he pointed out, the reason they actually do this 2% a year forced inflation is to force people to put money in the bank.

So we went from "put your money in the bank to get interest" to "put your money in a bank or it loses value"

From the carrot to the stick.

[Cesil]

It's funny because for me, FFXIV is cheaper (Legacy player) I end up paying like 7 a month for it since I sub in 6 month intervals haha. I'd sub in six month intervals with this game if it allowed. A lot of my friends want to come back to FFXI but once they see the sub the same, with minimal updates and other PC related issues, like they can't set up their controller easily, and they get confused with other stuff because they used to just play on console, they end up passing on coming back. Disappointing but nothing I can do if they don't feel its justified unfortunately. :(

I have no problem with p2p games, in fact I prefer them, I just wish it got updated as much as the other p2p mmos. WoW just got a new expansion, they updated the graphics and QoL and came out shortly after FFXI. Yeah, I know it has a lot more people playing it, because reasons, but I don't want to derail the convo into WoW vs FFXI, just saying that it is still getting tons of updates for a P2P MMO ; ; Again I know, they have a bigger dev team, its more popular, etc. FFXI is my favorite MMO and there is nothing more I'd love to see then for it to get some serious updates.

I have lots of friends who would come back if SE did this with FFXI, but yeah, I already know its most likely not going to happen. I pay for over 4 accounts rn with max mules on FFXI, and again its np, just wish it had more updates. Also if they added race change/name I'd buy those too as I do in FFXIV. I want to change one of my healer mules into a mithra haha. Anyway, it is what it is. Wishful thinking :o

[Immortal]

Why can't they care more, its really annoy me. They could have two successful MMOs instead of one, both games that appeal to different types of gamers.

[Zehira]

Because Matsui-P is not Yoshi-P (Coffee and Cigarettes dude). Nobody is going to college to learn how the DirectX 8 works. lol

FFXI is for the old fashioned players as long as Matsui-P is happy to work for us (great community).

While FFXIV is coming to the PS5 this year, I do look forward to play its next expansion and see them to drop the PS4 support like they did before.

[Alhanelem]

Was talking to a friend about this yesterday and he pointed out, the reason they actually do this 2% a year forced inflation is to force people to put money in the bank.

So we went from "put your money in the bank to get interest" to "put your money in a bank or it loses value"

From the carrot to the stick.
This isn't really true. The reason is so that it's easier for businesses to post growth metrics, growth looks good even if you're really on a treadmill. So you're on the right track, but it's really more about business than individuals.

[Pixela]

Why can't they care more, its really annoy me. They could have two successful MMOs instead of one, both games that appeal to different types of gamers.

They do care, which is why they have people paid to work on the game and not just retire them or put them on other games that make more money. The developers love this game as much as we do, you still have to accept that how much money it makes is a factor.

I've played a lot of online games over the years, companies that don't care literally shut the games down and tell you to go play the new one.

Sega and Ncsoft are examples.

[Pixela]

This isn't really true. The reason is so that it's easier for businesses to post growth metrics, growth looks good even if you're really on a treadmill. So you're on the right track, but it's really more about business than individuals.

Maybe but it's also the case that you're forced to put money in the bank or it loses value due to inflation.

[Alhanelem]

Maybe but it's also the case that you're forced to put money in the bank or it loses value due to inflation.
and the 0.1% interest i earn on my savings account really hits that 2% target

Most of us keep up with the inflation rate by annual "merit" increases on our wages/salary (if the company you work for isn't complete crap)

[Faladrin]

But wages in America haven't grown with inflation. In 2018 an analysis shows that the average salary had the same buying power as the average salary in 1978- BUT over that time most of the gains in earning went to the top wage earners, meaning that while the average wage earner's buying power was about the same, the median wager earner's buying power went down. So this game costs more in buying power now than it did at initial release.

[Pixela]

That many employers are effectively cutting wages of their staff does not stop stores increasing prices of bread, milk, coffee or anything else.

Because they have to pay more for products, services and wages themselves. Square is no different, their costs have increased with inflation but they are charging the same.

[Alhanelem]

IDK, I might be an outlier, but even though prices at the supermarket and fast food places and such have increased like 40-50% in just a few years, in part thanks to the pandemic my earnings have kept pace to the point where I actually feel like I have more buying power than I did 5 years ago. But maybe I Just work for a company that respects its workers.

[Zehira]

Different states different laws in the USA. Virginia is a commonwealth state we make up our own rules. The minimum wage hasn't been increased since 2009 and we are going to see a couple of dollars more later this year.

I am an independent contractor (not RMT) so I am not entitled to the minimum wage. Anyway, FFXIV team is bigger than FFXI team because one has its cash shop and one doesn't. I know some people in FFXIV couldn't stop buying more Fantasia ($10 each) so I guess microtransactions are very important for any modern MMO business.

(I am glad Legend of Mana is on steam. I'd love to try it. :))

[Haldarn]

Inflation is one thing, but it's not that simple.

Infrastructure costs have reduced, the initial capital investments in hardware and software have long been paid off, administrative and support staffing has become streamlined and has very little cost associated with it. That means our £8.99 per month is vastly more profitable than it was in the past.

Exchange rates mean that in 2004 my £8.99 was 1200JPY and your $12.95 was 1400JPY and others' €12.95 was 1700JPY when the fee to Japanese players was 1418JPY. Today, my fee is worth 1345JPY, yours is still 1400JPY and € translates to 1675JPY. Obviously in the interceding 17 years, this has fluctuated.

But bottom-line profitability aside, the overwhelming factor that determines our subscription fee (and hence perceived value for money) is none of this. It's market value. For a standard sub here in the UK, WoW and TESO are 11% more expensive, FFXIV is the same. The market has determined that this is the expected cost of a subscription service (the model of which has now expanded to include our software, our media, our TV/film, our phones, etc.). All of those things are only good value for money if the subscriber (the market) decides it is so.

And finally, there is a lot to be said about the evolution of the MMO model. There is something to be said about XIV's expansions becoming F2P after 5 years, or free players in LotRO being supported by subscribing players - both inflate the population of the worlds with casual players to the benefit of those who are more dedicated. Would opening up vanilla + RoZ for free play bolster FFXI, or would it mean a spiralling mess of free accounts used as mules and bots that would stress servers, ruin the economy (lol) and make a poorer experience than the one we have.

Perhaps it'll all be addressed next year.

[Pixela]

FFXI has only the subscription, FFXIV, TESO, WOW all have large often updated cash shops to offset losses. They are all basically f2p game models with a sub.

The game also used to make money from expansions, that they can no longer make (because the floating SE dev teams work on making XIV expansions now instead) so they have to make new content from the subscription in a way they never did before.

The wages of the developers have increased over time with inflation, the number of players has gone down (so the overall income has gone down) and inflation has sliced a chunk of the value of that £8 off too.

So they are expected to do more with the subscription fee money than ever before and the real value of that income is less than it ever has been, with the coming super inflation due to CV this will be more serious than ever before.

If your employer offered to pay you what he was paying people in 2012 you would not be happy, yet this is what we are doing to them by paying this same fixed fee all this time.

Do I want to pay more? No, of course not but I'm also aware that if the game becomes unprofitable it will shut down, and I don't want that more than I care about paying an extra $1-2 a month.

Having said all of this, I'm well aware they won't increase the sub. Simply because most do not understand what inflation is or how it works. So they have to get creative, which they have been.