Change GM Policies | Make GMs useful | Give GMs proper training

[noodles355]

If you're character becomes stuck and is unable to move then they will help you. If you want to make an item restoral requestt hey will help you. But this is almost all they do.

Violations of the Playonline agreement
If a character is cheating, they will send you an automated message telling you to contact the special task force. So you want me to log out of FFXI, and send a message to an agency that will "look into it" and probably not do anything? How about you just come to my location right now where you can see the damn person flee-hacking in plain sight. He's being obvious and doing it right in front of my/our faces. It's happening right now. You can come and fix the problem right now. But you wont. Why? Because it's not GM policy to investigate players for the use of third party tools.

If you look at the Help desk, one of the options is "I would like to report a violation of the playonline agreement" > "I have read the playonline agreement?" > "I would like to call a GM".

Now, this to me sounds like if I want to report a violation of the POL agreement, I should call a GM. The use of third party tools are a violation of the playonline agreement, so I should call a GM right?. The GM then states that it is not his duty, even though the menu I followed in the Help Desk lead me to placing a GM call.
Yes, this is a matter for the STF, but in that case why deos the help menu not lead you to somewhere to do with the STF?


Harrasement
If someone is insulting or harrassing you then all you will do is say "Sorry about that, put them on your black list". You will do nothing to the person in question even though you have complete access to the logs and can see whatever racist, sexist, or otherwise harmfull remarks are made. Concidering you will go out of your way when someone has something that some tiny minority has deemed offensive in their search comment, bazaar or name but that 99% of people don't care about to fix the problem, this is rediculous. A GM has before warned a player for having the Allakhazam website url in their Bazaar comment. Allkahazam is a premier site. Why would a GM go out of their way to change this, but then not give a shit about instances that actually matter such as racisism, sexism, and other such insults and flaming?

Reporting a game bug
If you report a game bug to a GM, you will get one of two possible outcomes:
A) It's a known issue, and they will say "It's a known issue, we are looking to fix it"
b) It's a new issue, with no previous data and they will say it's "working as intended".
This is completely rediculous. I once placed a call to a GM regarding the NM Genbu. Upon fighting him a few months ago I noticed that Genbu had gained the Counter trait, however his counter attacks were not appearing in the chatlog (All filters off to check of course). Now, either Genbu was meant to be able to counter and the issue was the counter-attacks not showing up in the chat log. Or Genbu was not meant to counter at all. Upon placing this GM call I was told "It's working as intended". Sorry, it's just obviously not. You're trying to dismiss the matter without actually looking into it whatsoever. I called out the GM on this and eventually he did look into it and finally admitted it was not working as intended and placed a bug report.

So the mob was broken, the GM finally acknowleged this and placed a bug report, however at the start immidiately dismissed the issue because there was no prior report of this. Isn't that somewhat rediculous? It didn't take long after he started to look into the matter to come to the conclusion that it was broken. The fact that he dismissed it immidiately at the start shows either how poor the GM training is, or how worthless and bad at his job that perticular GM is.

Contact between GMs
GMs seem to have little or no contact with each other at all. You could call one GM and get one answer about how something should work, then call another and get a completely different answer. You could call one GM and have them say "It's not part of my duty to do this" and then call another one who will say "I will investigate, please give me all the details you can". Somewhere there is a break in communication and it has lead to a very weak department.

Conclusion
GMs either overlook game bugs immidiately due to no prior bug report having been filed, or state there is already a bug report filed and it will be fixed. It is not GM policy to investigate players who have abused the ToS. GMs will do nothing except tell you to put a harrassing player on your black list.
Concidering the amount (very few) of players who get stuck and can't move, or who need a one-time item resotral, and that the almost always dismiss bugs, harrasement and ToS violation calls. What is it that GMs actually do?

Department needs an overhaul. You realise that most of the player base has given up on GMs and accepted that they are useless? Maybe that's a clue that it's time for a change.

[Rambus]

I agree, as far as harrasement GMs need to do more. I do not like being told by a gm that >I and my party< have to move across zones and find a new camp because some A*** hole is stalking me and mob killing. I roamed once in west ron s and this guy would follow my party across the whole zone trying to kill all the exp mobs. not only that but he would make trains of mobs and fight them on top of us whenever we stopped. I think he even tried to MPK us by getting undead to use aoe drain and such. Not only was he killing exp mobs but sometimes he would hold trains of mobs on top of us and a GM told us he can do whatever he wants because mob is yellow.

THIS IS BS! more needs to be done to such greifing. I wrote, others wrote a lot of complaints for SEs disregard for customer service, I would like a rep to actally see and talk to dev team about this issue.

customer serice > all game updates, been neglected for too long. reps can replay to some playful threads but not one of the most serious issue??? I do not understand.

I had a GM send a MT to the guy I was reporting once, I was really pissed off by that.

[Swords]

It's half on the GM's and half on the players. For starters there are so many GM's avaliable at any given time, and I don't know how many time's you've submitted a GM call but there is always an outstanding que of people in line before you. Since they probably get at least several hundred an hour, and each call probably takes at least 10 minutes each to investigate they can only realistically handle so many at a time. Due to this, they have to be selective which they think are actual calls instead of checking everyone calling foul, and even then you still got to follow a certain amount of conduct to be taken seriously.

Let me give you an idea of some reasons a GM might just overlook or push you aside.

1. Poorly worded discription: Both actual and fake GM calls are guilty of this, often people will give a redundant message GM's probably see a thousand times a day like "Linkshell MPK!" or "(insert name here) is Fleehacking!" or the ever popular "(insert name/likshell here) is Botting!" or "NM popped purple". GM's power is limited when working with such vague claims mostly because they have to have some proof of it happening WHEN it happens, by the time the claim is submitted it's often too late.

Fix: For starters many policies and patches have been introduced to counteract botting, fleehacking, MPK, and other violations, we know it's not perfect but just saying a person is doing something does not cut it, you have to give the GM's a unique reason out of the norm to warrent any investigation.

For instance the "Linkshell MPK" excuse let's give something more discriptive "*Name* is charming/releasing mobs ontop of my party and mobs are not despawning." or "*Name* is training mobs on my party, dieing, then letting mobs aggro us." If you are aware of a patch SE put in a while back it's hard to MPK parties now, because once a mob is too far out of it's roaming area it despawns. The suggestions I gave imply to the GM that the monsters do NOT despawn, therefore it is an actual case of MPK that might be worth looking into.

2. Player attitude: GM finally contacts you and your ready to give it your all of what happened, "expecting" the GM to rain down the wraith of heaven on your enemies. But whats this, the GM's sounding like he's ignoring you even though you just explained it three times, and now your in GM jail going "what the hell". Why you may ask this happened, because you spent half the conversation cursing every other word poorly describing the situation rather than really addressing the issue. As rediculous as the notion may seem, it happens all the time.

Fix: Ok, you got past step one and you have a GM actually contacting you for some griveance. We can all understand your pissed, but the key here is be respectful and calm. Being calm and respectful shows the GM you actually have your wits about you, and inclines them to take you more seriously. After all, what person in their right mind would take someone that sounds like an everyday internet forum troll seriously.

3. Focused and Discriptive: So you did steps one and two, but the GM still seems to not get what your saying. It might be because your derailing yourself, by straying from the original point you were trying to make.

Fix: It's qutie easy to stray from the original point your trying to make, especially when a GM requests you to state the events that lead up to this point. If you find yourself in this situation it's better to just sit and think about your response for a minute then writing it out, rather than stating a couple fragmented sentences for the GM to try and decipher.

Now for the GM's, a person has to understand the restrictions to their power. It's best to put a GM in the context of a prosecution lawyer, in order for a prosecuter to prosecute they need evidence, when theres no evidence or proof theres no case against the defendant. Now prosecutors have testimonies from witnesses, but again it comes down to no evidence no proof no case because witnesses are known to lie, be bribed, or blackmailed and are only often used to define the accuracy of the evidence once evidence has been found.

Granted, there is a degree of falsehood to what I say, because there are players who are legitimate that get shafted and there are GM's that pay no heed to their customers what so ever.

[Karbuncle]

All in all, GMs appear to have very limited power. I tell the story all the time, but i was camping an NM in Fort Karug(S) and saw this Log-Botter running around in one big circle over and over, Stopping at every single logging point (Even if it didnt have a Logging point active) Standing there for ~1 second, and either logging (if there), or moving on. When it was logging, After each log it would attempt to move to the next point, but stop and log, move back a little if it was still there, and then walk away/etc in a pattern. Several times it became stuck on a cactus and just ran into it over and over, eventually dislodging himself and going right back to logging.

It was the most obvious Bot I've ever seen, at one point he was actually POS Hacking inside Cactus to get from Logging Point to Logging point.

Called a GM. 2 DAYS later with no response at all, I finally log in with an auto-message (having completely forgot the entire ordeal) telling me to report to the Special Task force.

I did, And the guy got banned, So in the end it worked out. It just made me a little upset such an obvious bot could be actively running in the game (he was there for WEEKS) and get away with it until i finally reported him to the STF.

So, +1 to the OP, something needs to be done about this, Even minor things. I understand GM's have to sift through BS like "THIS GUY WAS TOTALLY BOTTING AND KILLED ME" crap, But it doesn't mean they shouldn't do their job.

If i just sifted through messages at my last job, and decided "auto-respond"... "auto-respond" just because i got bored of dealing with the same things... I'd be fired. they should too. I remember a while back they announced some huge over-haul to the GM policy and people were like "YAY", did all that stuff just ... stop?

Either way, i respect what the GMs have to deal with, I hate Customer Service jobs as much as everyone else... But i feel they should be given more power/responsibilities, cause it really feels like the player base now knows they can pretty much get away with anything. I see more flee-hackers, POS hackers and bots in FFXI than i have in years, because they know the GMs won't do anything anymore, and most people dont care enough to take the time to file a STFu report.

But frankly, They aren't doing Charity work, They're getting paid to deal with this crap. They can't just "shirk' their job duties when they want and copy>paste an auto-response message and move on. I've worked in Call Center jobs, Even Door-to-Door as a quality control Tech for charter, I know how it sucks to deal with people, but I'm paid to do a job, I need to do it. Same to be said for GMs.

i know most of the time they do everything in their power. i know, But i think they should be given more power to do things in game, Right now it feels the only reason to call them is for a 1-time Restore, or to get un-stuck. They barely do anything about harassment. Some guy was saying in SHOUT calling me and my brother the N-word, even in tells, for out-claiming him on an NM... Gm reponse? "Blist him". Sure i can blist him, but what about the next guy? its crap like this that gets on my nerves :|

[Fiarlia]

Apparently I'm one of the few people that has had nothing but good experiences with GMs.

There was one time my LS and I were in Abyssea - Altepa, doing a pt on the dolls. Now, since it's LS only, we don't do the typical setup for an alliance exp session. It changes from week to week depending on who isn't leeching and their jobs (we rotate). This particular week we were doing BLM Nuke-ga's. One of the BLMs would gather 5 dolls, sleepgs and the other two would join the first BLM and we'd Firaja, simple enough. Well, this new group comes in, and their WHM decides to start casting Diaga on the slept mobs, often getting claim, but we would keep hate (he tried to time it to land right after a Firaja barrage most of the time so his group had less work to do to kill them).

Now, we all know that yellow mobs are fair game - at least by the games rules. And none of us were dying because we know how to keep ourselves buffed, time cures, etc. But it was stupidly annoying. Now, two of us called a GM. My buddy got a response first, and he explained the situation. Normally, you'd expect a GM to advise us to just move, or advise the other group to just move, or at worst say that yellow mobs are fair game and he can't do anything. The GM popped himself in between our two groups and stayed there for a few seconds - probably to scare the douche WHM or some such (which I thought was cool). The WHM didn't care and kept doing it.

Well, The GM immediately jailed the guy. It was approximately 30 minutes before the guy was released to his homepoint. While he was in jail, one of his ally members was shouting for the GM to release him. Annoying at first, but then he started making threats to the GM. That guy got jailed too, and to my knowledge, nobody even called a GM on him.

Anyway, the original guy was technically working within game mechanics, but the GM still took care of it regardless. Which I thought was pretty damn spiffy.

[Karbuncle]

Seems like an Over-sight, But i should mention not all of my Experiences with GMs are terrible. I know I've had quite a few good ones.

It just feels like more times than not, I just don't get help.

One time i was in a Garlaige party (Long time ago), Some guy from a party near us came over and starting cursing out our party, calling us Racist names, making rude remarks etc (Note: We were there first, then they showed up, we still claimed more mobs = They got upset). So i made a GM call with this phrase "Rude player is harassing my party".

What followed was one of the most rude condescending GM calls I've ever received, The GM treated me like i was wasting his time. Sadly I can't recall word for word, But I remember conversation heading in the direction of "When did this take place" (etc) I told him where/time (now), and he asked me what the man was saying. I told him "Its in /say channel, I'd like to not repeat the words, I blisted him a little bit back but my party is still be threatened by him" etc and so on, He had a condescending attitude and basically the end result was "Tough Shit, Sucks to be you, Blist him" and no action was taken.

he gave me the "We'll investigate" line (It hadn't been more than ~10 minutes and all the insults/racist remark we're done in /say so.. Whats to investigate?)... and that was the end of it. For several minutes (I'm guessing until the guy got bored) he continued to harass us, then eventually went back to his party and continued to shout for a bit, don't recall much after that :|.

Either way, I don't have Entirely negative experiences, It just feels like i get more bad than good. but i do have a fair share of good GM stories.

[Greatguardian]

Apparently I'm one of the few people that has had nothing but good experiences with GMs.

I've had solid experiences with GMs, too. I really think it's a matter of the context, sometimes. If these boards (and, well, the entirety of port jeuno) are any indication, most players will try and start out a conversation with a GM by yelling at them or yelling about whatever crap got them mad enough to call a GM. Worse yet, I've heard of a lot of people who start berating the GMs whenever they don't get their way. It's absolutely no wonder that they're a bit jaded with random calls and don't respond well to people who can't respect them.

The only time I've ever had to wait a long time for a GM response was when I made a call during JP prime time. That bugged the heck out of me, because I was sitting in the queue for over 8 hours. I'm assuming it was just a matter of a lack of English-speaking/Bilingual GMs that day, but it was still a pain. However, the very minute that the POL Information Center opened (11:01 PST) I got a response from an NA GM and worked out my problem just fine.

That said, it's also true that I don't call GMs very often, if at all. I have a pretty thick skin, so I tend to just ignore it when someone tries harassing me in /s or /t. If it gets bad enough I always have the option of blacklisting them, too. The only times I actually call a GM are when someone is very obviously griefing me. Eg: I've had people diaga my sleeping Adds while I was solo'ing an NM. I've had BSTs charm a slime and Fluid Spread my mobs during a Smn Burn. Etc etc. Each time, the blatantly offending parties were most certainly jailed.

GMs are like Mall Security. If you (by you I don't mean Karb/Fi, more the average player) run up to their booth and demand they run out to The Gap to help you because "Some bitch took the last cute miniskirt off the rack, I wanted it", of course they're just going to bang their heads against a wall and attempt to kindly tell you they'll "investigate" without strangling you. If you run up to their booth and demand they arrest someone because "They were mean to me", they're probably going to do the same thing. But if you only run up to their booths when someone is actually breaking the law, and you treat them with respect and provide them with clear and concise details of the event, they'll be plenty happy to do their job.

That said, I'm not sure reporting bots is the best example for GM service. As far as I know, that's completely out of their jurisdiction. Calling a GM on a bot is like reporting Tax Fraud to Mall Security. All they can do is tell you to file a police report.

[Karbuncle]

I agree with a lot of what you say GG, except the "Mall cop" Comparison.

in a Video game(FFXI) where racist slurs and botting are against the ToS, there are clear laws being broken.

where as Taking the last item from the rack, or being rude Isn't in real life, or most malls (Which some extreme cases of asshole-ness still gets you booted).

So that comparison is really really flawed. I don't report someone for saying "lol you suck" but when someone runs over and start calling me the N-word and Racists slurs just for outclaimming them, I feel they should be punished. Or Obvious bots.

I've made like, 20 GM calls in the 8 years i've played, And i'll admit probably half were useful and helpful. I don't report small things like "You guys suck your noobs" i move on, But when Racists remarks come into play and constant harassment i feel they should be punished :|

I don't report every single person i see moving a little quicker than me, and again, dont report every bad insults, its only the Major offenses, Like Racial slurs for small things, and Obvious bots i report. I would just like It if i wasn't treated like I'm a waste of time/resources. its not so much to ask.

[Greatguardian]

I agree with a lot of what you say GG, except the "Mall cop" Comparison.

in a Video game(FFXI) where racist slurs and botting are against the ToS, there are clear laws being broken.

where as Taking the last item from the rack, or being rude Isn't in real life, or most malls (Which some extreme cases of asshole-ness still gets you booted).

So that comparison is really really flawed. I don't report someone for saying "lol you suck" but when someone runs over and start calling me the N-word and Racists slurs just for outclaimming them, I feel they should be punished. Or Obvious bots.

I've made like, 20 GM calls in the 8 years i've played, And i'll admit probably half were useful and helpful. I don't report small things like "You guys suck your noobs" i move on, But when Racists remarks come into play and constant harassment i feel they should be punished :|

I don't report every single person i see moving a little quicker than me, and again, dont report every bad insults, its only the Major offenses, Like Racial slurs for small things, and Obvious bots i report. I would just like It if i wasn't treated like I'm a waste of time/resources. its not so much to ask.

Oh, no, I do agree. It's just a matter of the average playerbase not differentiating between racial slurs and "Lol you're a gimp you suck". Racial slurs are most definitely against the ToS and thus fall under "Breaking the law", and should be reported and punished. The biggest roadblock to this, however, is the multitude of players who GM people over very stupid stuff and just make it that much harder for GMs to properly respond to legitimate calls.

I can't even count the number of times I've heard "I'm calling a GM because you took the white NM we wiped to before our Reraise finished animating". If people are taking 40 minutes on Bennu, and finally wipe, I'm killing that bird. Heck, if they're not complete Trogs to me when I do I invite them to lot the drops (bar Empyrean mats, for applicable NMs). It's perfectly reasonable and it's perfectly legal, but some poor GM is still going to have to sit through their bitching for 5-10 minutes because they're too butthurt to let it go.

It is a failing when real racist slurs are ignored, but I guess I'm just a bit sympathetic to them since I have a fairly good idea of what they have to put up with on a daily basis.

As for bots, I really am fairly sure that GMs can't do a thing about them most of the time. Before the founding of the STF, the GMs definitely did play a role in the smashing of Fishbots and the like. However, I'm assuming that the STF has more advanced tools and deeper access to server information for the use in eliminating bots/RMT. A GM could look at a player, think they look suspicious, try sending them a tell or a /poke, but that's about it. The STF would be able to look at incoming and outgoing packets, track player movement patterns, and other such things in order to make a significantly more precise determination.

Where a poke/tell/reasonable-suspicion was generally enough in the past, it seems like the utilization of the STF's resources would be less of a liability than trying to use a GM's qualitative determination.

[Karbuncle]

I see, You just confused me cause you mentioned my name -.-

I'm very conservative when it comes to GM Calls >->

[Dfoley]

What kills me is the naming policy.

Why are names like:
Fagut
omgwtfismyname
dimebag

Allowed? Just because you got to 90 doesn't mean the name is okay and shouldnt be changed, I reported all 3 of those names on my server and a GM told me "I dont see what the problem is with a name like Fagut".

Really? Nothing comes to mind?

[Babygyrl]

What kills me is the naming policy.

Why are names like:
Fagut
omgwtfismyname
dimebag

Allowed? Just because you got to 90 doesn't mean the name is okay and shouldnt be changed, I reported all 3 of those names on my server and a GM told me "I dont see what the problem is with a name like Fagut".

Really? Nothing comes to mind?

yea there are some names out there that go right over GM's heads i think..

my only issue with GM's is a lot of the time i dont feel like im talking to a real person i feel like im talking to a robot/computer program, I mean i work in customer service and i know there are scripts you gotta follow but still, at least breath some life into it!!

What would be cool/neat to see is in stead of GM's always being invisable they should always have a presence like just see them afking in town, or watching a dyna run or hanging around in aby.. then maybe will feel like the GMS care more.. lol

[Rambus]

Apparently I'm one of the few people that has had nothing but good experiences with GMs.

There was one time my LS and I were in Abyssea - Altepa, doing a pt on the dolls. Now, since it's LS only, we don't do the typical setup for an alliance exp session. It changes from week to week depending on who isn't leeching and their jobs (we rotate). This particular week we were doing BLM Nuke-ga's. One of the BLMs would gather 5 dolls, sleepgs and the other two would join the first BLM and we'd Firaja, simple enough. Well, this new group comes in, and their WHM decides to start casting Diaga on the slept mobs, often getting claim, but we would keep hate (he tried to time it to land right after a Firaja barrage most of the time so his group had less work to do to kill them).

Now, we all know that yellow mobs are fair game - at least by the games rules. And none of us were dying because we know how to keep ourselves buffed, time cures, etc. But it was stupidly annoying. Now, two of us called a GM. My buddy got a response first, and he explained the situation. Normally, you'd expect a GM to advise us to just move, or advise the other group to just move, or at worst say that yellow mobs are fair game and he can't do anything. The GM popped himself in between our two groups and stayed there for a few seconds - probably to scare the douche WHM or some such (which I thought was cool). The WHM didn't care and kept doing it.

Well, The GM immediately jailed the guy. It was approximately 30 minutes before the guy was released to his homepoint. While he was in jail, one of his ally members was shouting for the GM to release him. Annoying at first, but then he started making threats to the GM. That guy got jailed too, and to my knowledge, nobody even called a GM on him.

Anyway, the original guy was technically working within game mechanics, but the GM still took care of it regardless. Which I thought was pretty damn spiffy.

that is another good point, there is no damn consistency!

I had people do worse things to me then that and I had to sit there and take mob is yellow mob is fair game line.

This is something I would like cleared up, what are the exact rules and who do we report to when one is not doing ther job properly? I had one friend do /random spam at KA camp, he was teleported to jail ( in pt you see the zone name) but the next guy nothing is done, there is no consistency.

as far as names why does wow have in thier ToS that is anti stupid naming but not in ffxi?

like i find it fun seeing names like Wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww and Orzorzorzorzorzorz

how is that RP with names like that?

[Laraul]

ToS states that one party pays a fee for service the other party thus provides. At anytime for any reason either party may terminate the agreement, i.e. reason is not necessarily needed.

GMs are not Judge, Jury, and executioner. Remember that.

[Greatguardian]

ToS states that one party pays a fee for service the other party thus provides. At anytime for any reason either party may terminate the agreement, i.e. reason is not necessarily needed.

GMs are not Judge, Jury, and executioner. Remember that.

What about [GM]Dredd?

[Fiarlia]

What about [GM]Dredd?

Laugh out loud.

[Starcade]

The question is simple:

Does Square-Enix have an active interest in enforcing the rules, even if doing so probably means the meaningful end of FFXI?

With the number of cheating idiots who use Windower and hack and grief and Astral Burn and all that kind of stuff, one has to wonder just WHAT SIDE SQUARE-ENIX IS ON???

[Starcade]

ToS states that one party pays a fee for service the other party thus provides. At anytime for any reason either party may terminate the agreement, i.e. reason is not necessarily needed.

GMs are not Judge, Jury, and executioner. Remember that.

Actually, they are Judge, Jury, and Executioner -- and for the very reason you just stated. The STF usually takes on more meta-violation kind of stuff.

[Starcade]

What kills me is the naming policy.

Why are names like:
Fagut
omgwtfismyname
dimebag

Allowed? Just because you got to 90 doesn't mean the name is okay and shouldnt be changed, I reported all 3 of those names on my server and a GM told me "I dont see what the problem is with a name like Fagut".

Really? Nothing comes to mind?

Because these people are griefing pieces of crap. Very common in the American sphere of gaming.

[Tohihroyu]

What kills me is the naming policy.

Why are names like:
Fagut
omgwtfismyname
dimebag

Allowed? Just because you got to 90 doesn't mean the name is okay and shouldnt be changed, I reported all 3 of those names on my server and a GM told me "I dont see what the problem is with a name like Fagut".

Really? Nothing comes to mind?

I seen Tarutaru named stuff like smallballz, tarukoc & no ban for them...see a Galka named Dckinabox...less then 5 mins later ban't...if it was a Tarutaru with that name they probably wouldn't have been banned ._.

I haven't done many GM calls and out of the few 1 was seeing obvious bots (tarutarus & a galka in starter gear casting spells at random, think the Crawlers Nest ones, I got an automated message telling me to report it to STF.

The GM's I have talked to seemed decent, I remember one I talked to about Astral Flow Burns (It was lagging the crap out of my computer) he or she wais not only would they look into it but find out if they used 3rd party tools...but only a few of them got banned I think.

[Jhanaka]

Hello Folks,

I have reviewed this thread and as a Supervisor (Senior) for the Game Masters it saddens me to hear of your negative experiences with our staff and I can understand your demands for us to review our GM Policies.

We want you to know that all customer service feedback sent through the Support Center is reviewed by the Supervisors. Unfortunately, the forums are not the best place to voice your concerns about specific service issues because we cannot offer a public reply here. I’ve read over some of the concerns posted in this thread. I agree, it can seem like GMs don’t investigate issues. I want to explain why this may happen. There are times when investigations (for larger issues) take time, so action may not be immediate.

Our PlayOnline Privacy Policy (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1&tag=polservice) is in place to protect our customers. We never discuss actions taken on an account with anyone outside the individual who registered the account in question, and sometimes actions are delayed. I know this can be confusing as it seems like nothing is being done, but there are a lot of things that are taken into consideration when deciding the appropriate action. We consider factors like previous violations on the account as well as the severity of the offense and because of that it’s not surprising that some folks think we’re being inconsistent.

If you should ever feel that one of our GMs did not uphold the GM Policy (http://support.na.square-enix.com/about_igsupport.php?la=1&id=20), we want to hear from you! To give you some insight, the Senior GMs review the feedback email that is submitted via the “Contact” option on our Support Center Site (http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=20&la=1). There we are able to review your call history and conversation with the GM. We will do everything in our power to make sure the GM staff has all the necessary tools and information to handle all the services we currently offer.

Regarding the Special Task Force concern mentioned, I will let you know that when you place a GM call with the names and a brief description of what is happening, we place reports to the Special Task Force on your behalf so logging out of game is not necessary.

I want to assure you that you are heard, my friends. Part of the reasons we employ Senior GMs is to make sure that GM team follow the rules and policies we’ve set for them. We want to offer you the best possible service and we encourage you to continue to submit feedback through our official Feedback email system. Here is the link for easy access: http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=20&la=1

Thank you,

-Senior Game Master Jhanaka

[Karbuncle]

Thats really awesome.

Thank you !

[Camate]

Thanks so much for sharing the info Jhanaka!

[Fiarlia]

Regarding the Special Task Force concern mentioned, I will let you know that when you place a GM call with the names and a brief description of what is happening, we place reports to the Special Task Force on your behalf so logging out of game is not necessary.

I actually did not know that. That's pretty cool.

[Rambus]

I actually did not know that. That's pretty cool.

some do, some don't Jhanaka is one of the better GMs though, some things they cannot legitimately help due to polices set by SE. I try and try writing stuff on that subject here. even when they do take the report for you they tell me it is still a better effect if you make the report your self as well.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=20&la=1

that he gave but things never seem to change.

[Trollinthedungeon]

If you can actually explain and get the other person to admit what they did, GMs handle it well. If you act like a child whose toys were taken from them; nothing will get done. So don't cry, think. Dry your tears and get them to confess somehow or move on, just a game.

[Byrth]

I'm sure this has been said half a dozen times, but Genbu has always had an invisible counter trait. It destroyed paladins in 2005 because they'd do Joyeuse vs. invisible (unblockable?) counters and get destroyed.

[Rambus]

I'm sure this has been said half a dozen times, but Genbu has always had an invisible counter trait. It destroyed paladins in 2005 because they'd do Joyeuse vs. invisible (unblockable?) counters and get destroyed.

what that have to do with gms?

[Zyeriis]

If they submit such things to the STF, why do they tell us to go online and report it? They make no mention of a report being sent, ever.

Anyway, wouldn't acts against one player by another and then that offender being banned, affect the victim? Thus, shouldn't they be informed that their attacker has been brought to justice via banning/some form of action being taken? The action taken does not need be revealed but, still, the overall view of GMs might actually improve if we got some type of notification that an action, of any kind was finally taken, be it specific or not. Otherwise, everyone ends up like me, they don't call GMs at all anymore because they've never been aided once, regardless of politeness and calmness, descriptiveness or otherwise.

Confirmation of action, Can i have it?

[Rambus]

If they submit such things to the STF, why do they tell us to go online and report it? They make no mention of a report being sent, ever.

Anyway, wouldn't acts against one player by another and then that offender being banned, affect the victim? Thus, shouldn't they be informed that their attacker has been brought to justice via banning/some form of action being taken? The action taken does not need be revealed but, still, the overall view of GMs might actually improve if we got some type of notification that an action, of any kind was finally taken, be it specific or not. Otherwise, everyone ends up like me, they don't call GMs at all anymore because they've never been aided once, regardless of politeness and calmness, descriptiveness or otherwise.

Confirmation of action, Can i have it?

some do some dont, like i said it depends on the GM, mr Jhanaka here is one of my favorites, more oftem SGMs will tell you such things more then GMs do.

I am sure he knows me well XD

[Starcade]

I'd like to wonder when they're going to start enforcing their own damned rules myself...

[Soundwave]

Somewhat off topic but I must know and some of my friends who don't play the game anymore would like to know as well lol....

How is GM Luminous and is he still doing the GM thing?

[Byrth]

what that have to do with gms?

This is what it has to do with the OP:


This is completely rediculous. I once placed a call to a GM regarding the NM Genbu. Upon fighting him a few months ago I noticed that Genbu had gained the Counter trait, however his counter attacks were not appearing in the chatlog (All filters off to check of course). Now, either Genbu was meant to be able to counter and the issue was the counter-attacks not showing up in the chat log. Or Genbu was not meant to counter at all. Upon placing this GM call I was told "It's working as intended". Sorry, it's just obviously not. You're trying to dismiss the matter without actually looking into it whatsoever. I called out the GM on this and eventually he did look into it and finally admitted it was not working as intended and placed a bug report.

So the mob was broken, the GM finally acknowleged this and placed a bug report, however at the start immidiately dismissed the issue because there was no prior report of this. Isn't that somewhat rediculous? It didn't take long after he started to look into the matter to come to the conclusion that it was broken. The fact that he dismissed it immidiately at the start shows either how poor the GM training is, or how worthless and bad at his job that perticular GM is.

So he reported an error that people have doubtlessly been reporting since Sky was created and he was shocked that he didn't get an enthusiastic reply. Heck, he's lucky the GM even agreed with him that it was broken. "Working as intended" is probably the typical response for stuff like that.

[Cerelyn]

I sucessfully got 2 members of a rivil HNM LS banned for attempting to MPK my LS. (On multible occasions)
I was happy.

[Octaviane]

I have had mostly good experiences with GM's when I have felt it necessary to call one. I even got to dance with one in Bastok Mines once. :) The secret is to state your case calmly and treat them with respect. It is true that most of the time they do nothing or can do nothing about your complaint except refer you to the STF. Problem there is I never saw anything on that site that addressed any complaints that people may have made and there was never any feedback. One area I do think they need to improve on is taking immediate action when some one is being called an "effing c", "bitch", "retard" or having racial/other slurs hurled at them in /sh /say /t. The GM's can see these converstaions, and providing the recipient has done nothing to invite the hate language and does nothing to retaliate, these players should be temp banned and continual infractions should result in a violation being placed on their accounts. Freedom of speech is one thing, taking it to the level I have described is another.

[Unctgtg]

Hey I have spoken to you ingame before :)

[Octaviane]

Hello Folks,

I have reviewed this thread and as a Supervisor (Senior) for the Game Masters it saddens me to hear of your negative experiences with our staff and I can understand your demands for us to review our GM Policies.

We want you to know that all customer service feedback sent through the Support Center is reviewed by the Supervisors. Unfortunately, the forums are not the best place to voice your concerns about specific service issues because we cannot offer a public reply here. I’ve read over some of the concerns posted in this thread. I agree, it can seem like GMs don’t investigate issues. I want to explain why this may happen. There are times when investigations (for larger issues) take time, so action may not be immediate.

Our PlayOnline Privacy Policy (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1&tag=polservice) is in place to protect our customers. We never discuss actions taken on an account with anyone outside the individual who registered the account in question, and sometimes actions are delayed. I know this can be confusing as it seems like nothing is being done, but there are a lot of things that are taken into consideration when deciding the appropriate action. We consider factors like previous violations on the account as well as the severity of the offense and because of that it’s not surprising that some folks think we’re being inconsistent.

If you should ever feel that one of our GMs did not uphold the GM Policy (http://support.na.square-enix.com/about_igsupport.php?la=1&id=20), we want to hear from you! To give you some insight, the Senior GMs review the feedback email that is submitted via the “Contact” option on our Support Center Site (http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=20&la=1). There we are able to review your call history and conversation with the GM. We will do everything in our power to make sure the GM staff has all the necessary tools and information to handle all the services we currently offer.

Regarding the Special Task Force concern mentioned, I will let you know that when you place a GM call with the names and a brief description of what is happening, we place reports to the Special Task Force on your behalf so logging out of game is not necessary.

I want to assure you that you are heard, my friends. Part of the reasons we employ Senior GMs is to make sure that GM team follow the rules and policies we’ve set for them. We want to offer you the best possible service and we encourage you to continue to submit feedback through our official Feedback email system. Here is the link for easy access: http://support.na.square-enix.com/contacttop.php?id=20&la=1

Thank you,

-Senior Game Master Jhanaka

I really appreciate the response, and was aware that GM's make brief reports to the STF in our behalf. They also encourage us to back it up with more in depth detail through the STF. However, and although I realize you never discuss issues with parties other than the player who holds the account that made the complaint, surely it can't be that difficult to post at least an acknowledgement. If calling someone all manner of disgusting names and hurling racial slurs is not enough to get a player temp banned (as long as there was no reason to do so and no retaliation from the recipient), please give us some guidelines on what is unacceptable behavior. No-one can get away with that kind of behavior in real life without there being a consequence at some point, so why should it be allowed here?

[Anethia]

I have a couple examples where I know action was actually taken, but I know it through observation.

One instance was camping headlong belt (or hedgelong, I can never remember its name lol) for about 6 hours. There was already another player out there that I had noticed was filling the AH history with the belt. This would not have been an issue except that I noticed the price was increasing every 2 sales. So rather than buy I went to camp the NM. I watched the player in question for about 6 hours. I noticed they were Thf/nin and yet somehow always knew exactly where and when the NM was spawning. This indicated the use of not only a claim bot, but also another program that gives widescan to players that don't have it.

After observing this behavior for 6 hours I called a GM, they said they would look into it, but just to be thorough I needed to file a report to STF. So I filed the report, observed the AH for about 2 more weeks as well as doing sea all's on the name. After about 2 weeks I stopped seeing the character and the name stopped appearing on the in game AH as well as AH.com. So I know action was taken on that one.

Another instance was a player in my dynamis LS that admitted to using a third party program that gave them widescan even though they were Sam/thf. Within 3 days they were booted from the shell and reported to a GM, and within a month they were booted from the game. This same player ninja lotted some byakko's from another player just about a week before that, I believe cesil knows the person I'm talking about since she's the one who got the SS of it.

My point is that even though actions taken may not not be readily visible to the victim, close observation will reveal the presence of action. So try not to be as quick to judge.

[noodles355]

So he reported an error that people have doubtlessly been reporting since Sky was created and he was shocked that he didn't get an enthusiastic reply.Actually, you miss the point on this issue. The problem was that the GM immidiately dismissed it as "working as intended" without remotely looking into it, but after a bit of persuasion looked into the matter, changed his mind and submitted a bug report. That sort of dismissal attitude, whilst understandable (as seen by the replies in this thread), is not good customer service.

To SGM Jhanaka,
Out of anyone to respond I'm unsurprised it was you. I believe there's quite a few very positive testimonials floating about FFXI message boards about you and your work as a GM.

I'm thankful for your reply, but do still take issue with a few points.
You cite the GM policies and post a URL. Following said URL seems to be nothing but a brief explanation of GMs essentially stating that it is possible to call GMs, and the means to do so. Following the link to the FAQ gives a brief explanation of how GMs handle harrasement, scams and MPK, but has no mention of the specific duties they can and can't perform, nor any mention of 3rd party tool related issues and contact with the STF.

I also have an issue with your statement that GMs forward on 3rd party tool usage cases to the STF, however I don't believe this actually happens for the majority of GMs. I believe some GMs do this, whilst others simply tell you to do it yourself. I think this is one of the biggest problems with the GM team: The lack of consistency. There seems to be a communication breakdown in the department. Different GMs respond differently. Some will immidiately come and observe an issue, a different GM with the exact same infomation will not. Some will report the issue to the STF, others will not. I think this is an issue. All GMs should surely follow the same guidelines and take the same actions.

Furthermore. I take issue with either A) The GM's ability to follow their guidlines, or B) The accuracy of said guidelines. I quote the harrasement section,
Harassment is not taken lightly under the User Agreements and Policies, and if confirmed, will be dealt with swiftly and harshly.
Insuring the well being of those being harassed is just as, if not more important to us than punishing the offending party. If the offending party does not desist from harassing the victim, then further levels of punishment can be introduced to protect the victim from any more unpleasantries.
If you are harassed in any manner, we ask if possible, for you to register the offending players' name in the Black List. If this does not stop the harassment, please make a GM call as soon as possible.It seems out of this, the only thing actually done is asking the player to add the offender to their black list. That to me does not sound like the situation is being dealt with swiftly and harshly as stated in the FAQ. Yes, you are not permitted to let the victim know of the results, but that doesn't stop the fact that some cases are blindingly obvious that nothing has been done at all.

In closing I'd like to stress again that the inconsistency and lack of communication within the department is proving very detrimental. On top of this, the lackluster responses which essentially boild down to "That's too bad, sorry. Bye" which happen all too frequently do not fit in with the descriptions set out neither in the GM FAQ you linked, nor in your actual post. As I stated before, your last comment about GMs forwarding on 3rd-party-tool related instances to the STF, whilst that may be GM policy, it just doesn't happen.

[Megatron]

ive been playing this game since the NA release. and i have wateched the GM staff spirel into nothiness. they dont do anything. when the level cap was 75 i watched a RDM run around gather 20+ yags on him in campaing. and set there for the entire campaing fighting them one at a time and him never lose hp. not once but 3 or 4 times did i watch this happen. i reported it. others didnt belive me so i had friends come and follow the guy and watch and sure enough. he would gather all the mobs as they came in the area take them off and solo them one at a time till the campaign was over. they called GM after GM we did it on diffrent days. ther responce was the same old copy and paste "well look into it" heres a idea come to me right now and watch him hes doign it now. nada nothing. it not the first tiem just many of endless stories of old GM's who just dont care tehy jsut paste i nthe same old lines so they dont haveto talk or problem solve.

not policing your product is why people leave the game. when people walk all over you and can get by with using 3rd party programs in the open and no one does anything. they have no fear and thus peopel get upset and leave. SE should learn by now that the player base knows more then them when it comes to fixing things. look at ther beloved 14. its a beautiful trash can. and they offer it up as a free to play game and still no one likes it. why? they think they know best and what we want or think and maybe one day thell learn. to jsut lestion to peopel outside the box there looking at now. and get the ideas of people other then those who are costing them there butts now.

give the GM's back tehr power you took. explain to them if they dont do ther jobs.youll get people who will. i know its not hard to find willing people to fill those roles. and maybe when somoene sees a cheater and we see somethign done. you will gain some respect back you lose over the years when your lazy staff. stopped doing ther job.

im sorry im hostile over this subject but after 8 years of having to g oto diffrent websites, and talk to many people over a simple problem that a gm cold click and fix. and didnt my trust, respect are gone. time to get taht back SE your slowly bleeding to death. time to step up and save yourself. ove move over and let us do it for you.


open enrolement for player based GM's

[Swords]

Just to kind of throw this out there...

We need more GM's that feed people they jailed to Jormy.

[Byrth]

Actually, you miss the point on this issue. The problem was that the GM immidiately dismissed it as "working as intended" without remotely looking into it, but after a bit of persuasion looked into the matter, changed his mind and submitted a bug report. That sort of dismissal attitude, whilst understandable (as seen by the replies in this thread), is not good customer service.

Ah, okay. Now I understand. I'm sorry to hear that you had a bad experience. I'm sorry that the GM wasn't nice to you the first time, but I'm sure they're as tired of reporting the same 2003 glitches as we are. Apparently the GM you got was new enough that no player had reported the same thing to them yet. Not that surprising, considering how few people report Genbu's counter these days and how high the GM job turnover rate must be.
If there's a disconnect, it's probably between the GMs and the Dev team. Think about how many hundreds of times Genbu's invisible counter must have been reported. Now we've all just accepted it and no one reports it anymore. I have to imagine they're just as tired of getting the same reports as we are of sending them, and it would ultimately reduce the amount of work they have to do if SE would just patch some of the old content.

Other things from Sky that may be errors:
1) Despot glitches out and uses multiple TP moves faster than his animation delay
2) Mother Globe's pets only link with Mother Globe, but each /follow the pet in front of them. If you manage to separate the front pet and Mother Globe, you end up with a MG that can't summon and only one pet attacking the kiter. Duoable.
3) The teleporter to Kirin sometimes taking me to other places. <-- not an error, but now just annoying.
4) You can still fall off Sky islands.
5) It's impossible to Despoil a Buccaneer's Knife from Brigandish Blade.


And yeah Megatron? I saw one of them do that once and all the Yagudos slowly died even if he wasn't meleeing them. What a blatant abuse of third party tools! Good thing we GM people like that, but it's too bad that the GMs are flippant towards us!

[noodles355]

Your sarcastic response still does not change the fact that it is either poor training or bad policy for a customer support rep to immidiately dismiss something without looking into it even slightly.

[Byrth]

Actually, I considered making my last post sarcastic and decided against it. That was me being genuinely sympathetic.

Most people have developed a bit of a thick skin towards the GMs. For instance, if they asked the community a question to the effect of: "If you experience a glitch in the game that causes you a minor inconvenience, will you call a GM?"

I'm pretty sure the answer would be a resounding "No." There's not even a way to directly report glitches to the GMs the last time I checked. You have to report some kind of TOS violation, and "Hey SE, your game doesn't work" isn't a TOS violation unfortunately. The last time I wanted to report a glitch I had to lie and claim an NPC was harassing me. Nothing came of it, but the GM was minorly conciliatory which was about all I was hoping for.

I fell off the dock in Kazham once, and that was the only time in my seven years of playing that a GM call was remotely helpful. Of course, it actually took two GM calls because my friend called the first time and reported I was stuck, and because they weren't me the GM "couldn't do anything about it" as if the game somehow prevents him from sending me a tell.

[Karbuncle]

Actually, I considered making my last post sarcastic and decided against it. That was me being genuinely sympathetic.

Most people have developed a bit of a thick skin towards the GMs. For instance, if they asked the community a question to the effect of: "If you experience a glitch in the game that causes you a minor inconvenience, will you call a GM?"

I'm pretty sure the answer would be a resounding "No." There's not even a way to directly report glitches to the GMs the last time I checked. You have to report some kind of TOS violation, and "Hey SE, your game doesn't work" isn't a TOS violation unfortunately. The last time I wanted to report a glitch I had to lie and claim an NPC was harassing me. Nothing came of it, but the GM was minorly conciliatory which was about all I was hoping for.

I fell off the dock in Kazham once, and that was the only time in my seven years of playing that a GM call was remotely helpful. Of course, it actually took two GM calls because my friend called the first time and reported I was stuck, and because they weren't me the GM "couldn't do anything about it" as if the game somehow prevents him from sending me a tell.

Oh that reminds me of another GM call I (didn't) Make!

I was in Castle O, Running from a Train of Yagudo However i popped Flee and had got a big gap on them. I had about ~400 HP and was walking across the bridge that leads to the "Switch door" and suddenly i drop dead.

Like 400 HP > Drop dead. I wasn't DC'ing, Nothing hit me, no DoTs on, I was in the clear... then poof, Dropped dead. Out of nowhere, No messages nothing.

Since i was dead and still stunned by wtf just happened, a friend called the GM for me, my mindset was "the fk just happened? Something must be glitched? How did i drop dead out of nowhere?". Got the same response as you, Since it wasn't me calling couldn't be helped. So i homepointed and call a GM. I told them "I don't really know what to say of this" told them all the info, When i died, where, etc and i asked them "GM's can see a lot more than us in Chat log right? Can you tell me what happened?" I don't think anything was ever done :| I died for unknown reasons and lost the exp and nothing ever came of it.

Though i really can't blame them, I have no idea what happened there was really nothing they could do. Just a funny story i remember.

To this day i wonder WTF happened. My best guess is that was chasing me was Upstairs and nuked me from there somehow. But I didn't take any damage so it was weird -.-