Inflated Shihei Prices hmmmmm......

[Eri]

So theres a few Servers that have like 45k-60k per stack Toolbags.
BUT some Servers are at like 100-150k per... i was like omg....

I would like to see an NPC Who sells Shihei for say 50 Gil a piece and its gotta be a standart Merchant, 4950 Gil Per Single stack I can deal with that....
seems like a reasonable Price.

AND If Crafters want to make Money with these again, underbid the npc. Hell it would take me a week or two to get WW 60 but... i don't wanna...
yea thats mebbe cuz im lazy :P

Its Daylight robbery nothing else, Hell THF's start subbing /dnc cuz of this, major loss of skill because ppl dont wanna buy inflated tools? Maybe.... i still buy my tools and will keep buying them but seeing ppl not /nin because of that in random shout groups aint helping the Game either.

Plz give give you Comments on this in a halfways decent manner. Im not into getting flamed :P

[Anethia]

I completely agree with you. I'm on one of the servers where shihei has breeched the 100k mark. It's robbery cause it takes less than 30k to make a stack of toolbags.

Unfortunately you will get trolled by the crafter's who say "supply and demand", which is quite frankly a load of horse crap. The supply of this particular item has never been low enough, long enough, at any point to warrant the current prices.

[Mirage]

It is supply and demand. If someone could craft them for 30k and sell them for 80k instead, they'd make buckets of money.

It only costs 100k because people are willing to pay 100k.

Level the craft and sell cheaper shihei instead of complaining :p.

However, in the process, you might feel like wanting to earn back all the money you pumped into leveling the craft high enough to HQ consistently, and sell it for a huge profit instead.

Also, i'm not a crafter. My two highest crafts are lv 1, and one of them is fishing.

[Neofire]

It is supply and demand. If someone could craft them for 30k and sell them for 80k instead, they'd make buckets of money.

It only costs 100k because people are willing to pay 100k.

Level the craft and sell cheaper shihei instead of complaining :p.

However, in the process, you might feel like wanting to earn back all the money you pumped into leveling the craft high enough to HQ consistently, and sell it for a huge profit instead.

Also, i'm not a crafter. My two highest crafts are lv 1, and one of them is fishing.
See this kind of crap that is wrong with the community, instead of encouraging people not take advantage of others you got people like this doing the opposite. Its sad really and to the OP its probably best to find s friend that will craft them for you lvl and craft your own

[Mirage]

Why is it crap? People level crafts to make money. If people are willing to pay 100k, why should a crafter lose 50k per sell by selling them for 50k instead?

I sure as hell wouldn't.

Just like I wouldn't sell a Raise 3 scroll for 200k when i can get 750k for it on my server.

[wish12oz]

you can buy the universal tool for 19k/stack in port bastok if you think shihei is overpriced or you're getting the shaft by crafters.

[Eri]

I'm personally not WILLING to pay 100k , but i do pay 100k since i rather waste my Money then
acting like a a DBag and put to mutch HP lost on the ppl that got to heal me.
I got 90WHM myself and i aint gonna act stupid to save Money everyone benefits from winning fights ~ unless a RMT or something mebbe hihi ~ the Prices aint reasonable and someone has to do something about this, like add a random npc that sells em...

[Mirage]

Well, then you are willing to pay 100k.

How fast do you burn through 1200 shihei anyway? I'm sure you would have earned enough cruor/CP/IS in that time to earn back the money you spent.

A good exp run in abyssea should let you earn around 100k cruor, which you can turn into about 200k gil. Enough for 2400 shihei.

Or spend those 200k gil and try leveling a craft and cash in on the overpriced shihei yourself.

And there is an NPC who sells universal toolbags, they cost 20k each, making for 240k for a stack.

[Andylynn]

you can buy the universal tool for 19k/stack in port bastok if you think shihei is overpriced or you're getting the shaft by crafters.
Lol? Its ~18k a BAG, not stack in Bastok. If anything that'd be ripping yourself off more... yet helping the economy due to being a coin sink. Regardless, shihei prices are dumb, I've always wanted nin tools to be a quested KI you could just farm, and use the spell infinitely. Consumable magic is a horrible idea in practice.

[rog]

(almost) anyone can make shihei, if they want to. If those crafters were really making so much money, someone else would start making it, and compete with them, which would increase supply, and therefore lower the price. This would continue until the price dropped to a point that it was no longer worth making, at which point the price would stabilize, at a point that is favorable for the buyers, since all the sellers would be competing to sell their products.

The prices are high because if they sold for less, they would not be worth the effort to make. Everyone who is interested in making gil can obviously make more gil by doing something else, otherwise the price would be lower.

An economics class would do some of you a lot of good.

[rog]

Lol? Its ~18k a BAG, not stack in Bastok.
Same thing...?

[Mirage]

One toolbag is one stack of tools. Thus, 19k for one stack of tools.

-edit-
http://www.ffxiah.com/item/5314/toolbag-shihe/?stack=1
Click cross-server prices. Seems to average to about 100k, so I don't even know what you're talking about anymore.

[Jalonis]

In many cases there's inflation across the board in the supply chain for shihei, many cases starting with the fish for the ink, because fishing sucks and very few people do it.

[Eri]

If im going to shadow tank as a /nin i'll burn about 1200 tools a rl Week,
i'm not going to random "Exp Partys" in Abys cause thery are a pain, speaking about loss of Skill
thats definately the Place i'll look first.... y is that? cuz ppl need to use Cruors to get gil rather then useng Atma?

Prolly not, but the main point is the demand is to LOW thats y the Prices get over the top, ppl dont buy them hp can be cured and stuff? Naw i really dont see any reason y the Prices are so mutch over the top.

Demand aint the point here. If i subbed like Dnc to Thf that would be cheaper.... but i would be pretty useless (and dead in a sec) so no ty.

Want i see is a bunch of Jobs that should be /nin but not willing to pay... the only ones that pay it are actually the ppl that want to be useful to their Groups. Just fix the Price so anyone can use it by adding an Npc Seller.

[rog]

It is not about cost. /nin just is not very useful. Whms have infinite mp, so there is little need for dds to worry about staying alive.

Also, you may want to recheck your logic there. Low demand means LOWER prices, not higher.

[wish12oz]

Lol? Its ~18k a BAG, not stack in Bastok. If anything that'd be ripping yourself off more... yet helping the economy due to being a coin sink. Regardless, shihei prices are dumb, I've always wanted nin tools to be a quested KI you could just farm, and use the spell infinitely. Consumable magic is a horrible idea in practice.

1 bag = 1 stack, [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

[Eri]

It is not about cost. /nin just is not very useful. Whms have infinite mp, so there is little need for dds to worry about staying alive.

THAT MADE MY DAY LIKE TOTALLY! If you say that then you prolly nerver seen a good /nin

How about adding Ninjatool expertise to /nin say make it lvl 45?
well i'd rather get my tool selling npc thu....

[Mirage]

So after a week of shadow tanking, you don't manage to pick up enough items or cruor to make 100k? You only need 50k cruor to make 100k gil.

Yes, demand is the point here. Along with the general amount of gil in circulation. Money is really easy to get a hold of now, so people don't care if they have to pay a bit more. And it's not even a lot more, as you can see, the price you're complaining about is pretty average across all servers.

-edit-
Btw, Shihei is a lv29 woodworking craft, go level it yourself, it shouldn't take too long. If what you're saying is true, you should be able to save back your investment in just a month!

[rog]

THAT MADE MY DAY LIKE TOTALLY! If you say that then you prolly nerver seen a good /nin

Of course not. /nin does absolutely nothing to increase damage, and actually LOWERS it, by requiring you to waste time casting pointless spells.

[wish12oz]

Of course not. /nin does absolutely nothing to increase damage, and actually LOWERS it, by requiring you to waste time casting pointless spells.

I agree with this, which is why I mentioned the catch all ninja tools, it didn't even cross my mind people use utsusemi that are not ninja main.

[rog]

it didn't even cross my mind people use utsusemi that are not ninja main.
I did not think ninjas even used it anymore, other than maybe utsu2, right before a single target nuke casted.

[wish12oz]

Just ni, depending on what you're fighting, its usually not worth it to cast ichi.

[Eri]

Yea theres totally only Abyssea right now.... wait no there was something else like... outside of Abyssea?

i mean like, what you are saying is:

-There is only Abyssea
-Ppl shouldnt sub Ninja
-Rippoffs should be Supported

That all i see here, IF i was going to make an abyssea pt and say a thf comes up being not /nin i would
NOT invite them. If they aint useing Shadows i would kick them. Period.

Fixing the Price on all Servers by adding a Npc selling Shihei for a decent Price is like the only thing in order.

[wish12oz]

Utsusemi is less useful outside abyssea, I cant think of anything worth fighting where your evasion is bad enough to warrant casting ichi on NIN, or THF or DNC, and other jobs shouldn't be subbing ninja anyway. I'm not even sure THF and DNC should be subbing ninja anymore~ WAR might be better since they both have dual wield from main jobs now right? (This last part is a serious question, if anyone knows)

[rog]

-There is only Abyssea
-Ppl shouldnt sub Ninja
-Rippoffs should be Supported
Anything outside abyssea is too easy to matter. It is certainly too easy to require /nin.
Right.
What? No one is being ripped off. This is how an economy works. Supply is low, demand is high, and profits are (relatively) low and/or no one needs money. Therefore prices are high.

[Mirage]

Yea theres totally only Abyssea right now.... wait no there was something else like... outside of Abyssea?

i mean like, what you are saying is:

-There is only Abyssea
-Ppl shouldnt sub Ninja
-Rippoffs should be Supported

That all i see here, IF i was going to make an abyssea pt and say a thf comes up being not /nin i would
NOT invite them. If they aint useing Shadows i would kick them. Period.

Fixing the Price on all Servers by adding a Npc selling Shihei for a decent Price is like the only thing in order.

So you want to permanently cap the cost of ninja tools, so that when inflation occurs later, shihei will no longer be profitable to craft at all, and crafters will have one less item to make.

Please, just stop complaining. Just seriously look into leveling woodworking to level 29+, then you'll get all the cheap shihei you'd ever want. If you think that is too much work, or too expensive, just fucking deal with buying it.

Or ask anyone in your LS who has got woodworking to 29 to make it for you if you bring them the materials. If you have any friends there at all, i'm sure they could make you the shihei for just a 5% profit, which is what it seems like you want.

[Eri]

Thf gets DW 1 by Lvl 83 and that is MORE delay then /nin .... /nin is better then /dnc tho.
Dnc wise i dont sub nin unless i know i need the Shadows, then again thats often.
If a main Nin aint casting Ichi they are bad. Fight anything worthwhile and you need both Utsusemi's
Main Nin or not you need them, cuz if every hit you take is 500 dmg that hurts the mages mp.
ANYWAY the Price is to high =P

[rog]

If a main Nin aint casting Ichi they are bad. Fight anything worthwhile and you need both Utsusemi's
Main Nin or not you need them, cuz if every hit you take is 500 dmg that hurts the mages mp.
ANYWAY the Price is to high =P
Not really. You do not need either utsu in most situations. 500 damage per hit is easily healed with a simple cure4. 88 mp every 3 seconds is stupidly easy to keep up with.

And if the price is too high, then craft them yourself. Not only will you get yourself shihei at cost of materials, you will also increase supply, therefore reducing the price for everyone else.

[Tamoa]

Taking a quick look at the recipe for shihei and the ingredients needed I come to this conclusion:

Synthing 1 stack of shihei with little to no chance of HQ will actually cost you more than buying 1 stack from the AH.

If you don't want to buy the ingredients from npcs/AH, you need other crafts levelled aswell. Or have a friend or 2 that are willing to make the bast parchment and do some fishing for you.

Making shihei from scratch is time consuming. If you buy ingredients, it's gil out of your pocket. Either way, can't blame crafters for wanting to make a profit. And I'll join the "what else is there to spend gil on these days?"-choir.

[Kensagaku]

Thf gets DW 1 by Lvl 83 and that is MORE delay then /nin .... /nin is better then /dnc tho.
Dnc wise i dont sub nin unless i know i need the Shadows, then again thats often.
If a main Nin aint casting Ichi they are bad. Fight anything worthwhile and you need both Utsusemi's
Main Nin or not you need them, cuz if every hit you take is 500 dmg that hurts the mages mp.
ANYWAY the Price is to high =P

What Rog said... but let me put that in another context, solo. I solo a lot on NIN/DNC, and I often end up bouncing between screens and doing something else while farming pop items. I come back, my shadows might be stripped, but at most I've taken a negligible amount of hits and one Curing Waltz III and I'm back up to snuff. Usually I go Ni->Ni, and even then I generally allocate at most 1 shihei per non-NM. NMs I go Ni->Ni as well with minimal difficulty; Ichi is there as a crutch should a worst-case scenario happen, but so little does said scenario happen that I don't really think of it often. Really only Heroes-zone NMs, and only the bigger ones.

And this is all assuming a normal TP set, which with me has... 7 Eva from my Iga Erimaki and 3 from my Heed Ring (only 'cause I'm saving up a brew to nab Epona's from Rani now). I can't remember the last thing outside of Abyssea that required me to use my NIN or any job /NIN, since most of the content is currently really easy at our levels. Most of the time I just go BST or DRG, because nothing warrants me needing my NIN's evasion. I can't think of the last time I died outside of Abyssea short of the soloing mishaps on my PUP35.

As a NIN main, I burn through a stack of shihei toolbags in roughly... two weeks. In that time, I've made more than enough from random drops (Hello 160k scrolls or 20k pop items from NMs, or 7.5k sellable gear that I don't care about) to cover the costs and then some. Heck, I've even found a little side-profit farming up Automaton Attachments looking for my Strobe (which still won't drop!) and making 20-30k per attachment because no one farms them but people still want to play Puppetmaster. Lookie there, another way of making gil.

100k shihei toolbag sets aren't that bad.

[Eri]

Not really. You do not need either utsu in most situations. 500 damage per hit is easily healed with a simple cure4. 88 mp every 3 seconds is stupidly easy to keep up with.


So your saying in a 20 min fight. The said mage will not run out of mp and will not Cap hate, and die in 2 hits? Could pull way less hate if the tank lost less hp by useing what? a /nin sub. also Hight DDs not going to Deal any Dmg if they are Dead Shadows are essential to anyone decent. Just a thing to think about.

[Kensagaku]

So your saying in a 20 min fight. The said mage will not run out of mp and will not Cap hate, and die in 2 hits? Could pull way less hate if the tank lost less hp by useing what? a /nin sub. also Hight DDs not going to Deal any Dmg if they are Dead Shadows are essential to anyone decent. Just a thing to think about.

Capping Emnity- isn't hard. Refresh isn't hard to come by - you can get as much as what, 20/tick in just atma alone? Combine with gear between casts (see: Owleyes, refresh pin, body, serpentes, subligar, earring... +6 more right there) and look, lots of MP/tick. Also why would we have 20 minute fights unless we're having a hard time procing? Most things die pretty easily unless they're just stupid like Apademak (gotta watch those stuns and be a bit careful). Honestly, the healer shouldn't really have much trouble. I say this as a RDM; I have little problem keeping up short of having nothing better than Cure IV. SE needs to give us Cure V already. =( MP would never be an issue as I'm constantly capped.

[Elexia]

For example my brother recently rejoined the game, so he needs to level Nin, however not only is shihei gone way up in price that someone newly joining or rejoining won't have the means to pay for it, Utsusemi Ni also shot way up in price.

Quite honestly I stopped paying attention to prices as a full stack of bags can last me awhile given my job and when I'm not tanking on DRK, but for people leveling subs the non leech way, it does pile up on them, because if you're new to the game or rejoined prior to abyssea's launch, you can't even make use of abyssea because SE made sure new players have to partake in the time sink of acquiring stones before enjoying the content, even with the recharge key items it still takes a new player quite awhile to build up enough stones to make abyssea useful.

[Seriha]

Someone mentioned ink, but in general, I doubt logging is all that popular anymore, either... so Elm Logs likely aren't as plentiful as they were back in the day. At least in desperation, a vendor in Tav sells those for like 7k, but in the long run, non-HQs would run for roughly 4.5k per 99 with crystals and other incidentals if you're also making the bast parchment (which will require more than 29 wood and an alchemy sub). So, 54k a stack versus 90-100k on the AH. Pretty killer markup, but this isn't exactly a one-and-done synth, either. Probably took me about a half hour to make 16 stacks from scratch the other day (ink included, spent 35k on 6 logs, 36 individual synth attempts) as I also felt 90-100k silly.

Also, if the tool bundlers aren't available, you can pretty much guarantee a spike for the week.

[Kensagaku]

For example my brother recently rejoined the game, so he needs to level Nin, however not only is shihei gone way up in price that someone newly joining or rejoining won't have the means to pay for it, Utsusemi Ni also shot way up in price.

Quite honestly I stopped paying attention to prices as a full stack of bags can last me awhile given my job and when I'm not tanking on DRK, but for people leveling subs the non leech way, it does pile up on them, because if you're new to the game or rejoined prior to abyssea's launch, you can't even make use of abyssea because SE made sure new players have to partake in the time sink of acquiring stones before enjoying the content, even with the recharge key items it still takes a new player quite awhile to build up enough stones to make abyssea useful.

But it's not that hard to make gil either... go solo EP/DC mobs with FoV, you'll get lots of beastman seals. Do Under Observation or Royal Jelly or one of the other ones that drop a well-selling scroll, or even get Utsusemi yourself! That's where I got my scroll, rather than buying it. Saved me a pretty penny too, and I've sold a couple since then for lots of profit.

[Reiii]

I completely agree with you here, that Shihei are becoming grossly over priced. As a high level Alchemist I manufacture one of the main ingredients for Shiehi, black ink, and I sell it on the auction house. However, I've noticed a growing problem on my own server. Fishermen are jacking up the price of Nebimonites way more than they should be. (They are not that hard to catch... Why do they need to be 20k or more a stack???) Nebimonites are a main and most expensive ingredient in making this ink. Because of the fish being so pricey it causes alchemists to have to pay more and thus we have to put up ink higher, and because of the higher prices Shihei are costing a lot more to make.

And to all of you who are saying people are willing to pay over 100k for a stack of toolbags... It's not that they're willing, it's that Shihei are a NECESSITY in some situations. If you put Shihei up for 300k they would pay it and that's a sad fact.

This isn't about making money anymore, this is about fishermen just being plain greedy. I remember when these fish were much cheaper a year ago. I've become so frustrated with this situation that I've taken up fishing and woodworking. I'm just plain SICK and TIRED of all these price jack ups. It's completely wrong to do this and I feel extremely sorry for any new players taking up Ninja.

[rog]

So your saying in a 20 min fight. The said mage will not run out of mp and will not Cap hate, and die in 2 hits?
Yes to mp, maybe, to hate (does not matter if they pull hate anyway), and lol@dying in 2 hits. Any mage job can easily survive a minimum of 5 hits from anything, and usually more like 10-15. Without any cures.

[wish12oz]

Maybe I just don't notice the price because I remember shihei being 50k/stack back in 2005, so I look at 6-10k each as nothing, or maybe you all just complain to much. Personally, I would love for the shihei price to be equal to the universal tools, so I could just buy from the NPC and not care, and use them for everything, instead of everything other then utsusemi, and constantly have to watch my shihei stack in inventory. It's sort of silly to use the universal tool for utsusemi currently since shihei is half the price =[

[Anethia]

I completely agree with you here, that Shihei are becoming grossly over priced. As a high level Alchemist I manufacture one of the main ingredients for Shiehi, black ink, and I sell it on the auction house. However, I've noticed a growing problem on my own server. Fishermen are jacking up the price of Nebimonites way more than they should be. (They are not that hard to catch... Why do they need to be 20k or more a stack???) Nebimonites are a main and most expensive ingredient in making this ink. Because of the fish being so pricey it causes alchemists to have to pay more and thus we have to put up ink higher, and because of the higher prices Shihei are costing a lot more to make.

And to all of you who are saying people are willing to pay over 100k for a stack of toolbags... It's not that they're willing, it's that Shihei are a NECESSITY in some situations. If you put Shihei up for 300k they would pay it and that's a sad fact.

This isn't about making money anymore, this is about fishermen just being plain greedy. I remember when these fish were much cheaper a year ago. I've become so frustrated with this situation that I've taken up fishing and woodworking. I'm just plain SICK and TIRED of all these price jack ups. It's completely wrong to do this and I feel extremely sorry for any new players taking up Ninja.

This is all too true. Fortunately in my own situation I am both fisherman and alchemist, so I'm in the unique position to farm my own ink. The problem I have is I never lvl'd woodworking. If I had lvl'd that I could make my own shihei since my alchemy is already at the needed lvl's. But due to my own short sightedness I am still a slave to the shihei crafter's.

[Flunklesnarkin]

It's always the non crafters who complain about prices ^^

It would take you a couple hours and maybe 200k to power level your woodworking up to 29... then you can make your own and not complain about price gouging....

shihei do go up a lot when wijinroots aren't sold by the npc's.... so if the conquest merchant doesn't sell them that week... expect prices to go up.

[Elexia]

It's always the non crafters who complain about prices ^^


I know right? Why would the people being ripped off complain over the ones doing said ripping off? That wouldn't make a lick of sense.

[rog]

I know right? Why would the people being ripped off complain over the ones doing said ripping off? That wouldn't make a lick of sense.
No one is getting ripped off. If they were, then more people would start crafting in order to rip others off. The result would be more competition, more supply, and lower prices.

[Karbuncle]

No one is getting ripped off. If they were, then more people would start crafting in order to rip others off. The result would be more competition, more supply, and lower prices.

While I agree to an extent, I think you underestimate how truly lazy the average consumer is of these products >.>

Most are too lazy to level a craft and will pay anything, others will not level a craft and complain.

Personally my Woodworking is ~73 and i don't care to craft Shihei, Last i checked (like a year ago >.>) you would lose money without HQ'ing a lot. If thats changed...

[rog]

While I agree to an extent, I think you underestimate how truly lazy the average consumer is of these products >.>

Most are too lazy to level a craft and will pay anything, others will not level a craft and complain.

Personally my Woodworking is ~73 and i don't care to craft Shihei, Last i checked (like a year ago >.>) you would lose money without HQ'ing a lot. If thats changed...
No i am not. If the crafters were really making bank on shihei, there would be people leveling ww up to spam it, and sell it at outragous prices. But no, no one does, because it is not worth it. The truth is, most people can make more money doing other things.

You can make a profit on shihei with 29 ww on some servers, and at 59 on all servers.

[Karbuncle]

No i am not. If the crafters were really making bank on shihei, there would be people leveling ww up to spam it, and sell it at outragous prices. But no, no one does, because it is not worth it. The truth is, most people can make more money doing other things.

You can make a profit on shihei with 29 ww on some servers, and at 59 on all servers.

Its has been a while, I'm bored in my mog house, i should go craft~

[Andylynn]

1 bag = 1 stack, [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

Most servers are averaging 80-100k for a stack of 12 bags, 18000 x 12 = upwards of 216000. That was my point.

[wish12oz]

While I agree to an extent, I think you underestimate how truly lazy the average consumer is of these products >.>

Most are too lazy to level a craft and will pay anything, others will not level a craft and complain.

My mule is 98+2 woodworking, the only job Ive played the last 6~ months is ninja, and I don't even bother to make shihei, am I a step above all those other lazy peoples?

EDIT: I love how andytearcumdvalynn or whatever your name is now constantly reports all my posts, I get such a kick out of it. It's almost as funny as you telling people to not use blade: jin on colibris cause the wind damage will heal them.

[Greatguardian]

This thread is a prime example of everything I pointed out in the "Solution for low level Armor on the AH" thread.

It's always "Herp derp what a ripoff, how dare we pay these prices" instead of "Wow, that's profitable, let's get in on that or farm the profitable materials or something".

Newsflash: 100k Gil is something like 40k Cruor. If you can't make 40k Cruor in 1200 Shihei (or just 100k Gil in any other way), you're doing something very wrong. Whining about things being "Too expensive" on the AH is so 2006.

[Andylynn]

My mule is 98+2 woodworking, the only job Ive played the last 6~ months is ninja, and I don't even bother to make shihei, am I a step above all those other lazy peoples?

EDIT: I love how andytearcumdvalynn or whatever your name is now constantly reports all my posts, I get such a kick out of it. It's almost as funny as you telling people to not use blade: jin on colibris cause the wind damage will heal them.

I don't report anything, your own bad attitude is what gets your posts moderated.

[Karbuncle]

I think i just rekindled my Hatred for Crafting. Went to go craft Shihei because of this thread, My Woodworking is 73. 2 Stacks of Ink/4 Bast got me 10 stacks of Shihei +33.

So i went to buy an other Stack of Ink/2Bast to finish off a full 12 Stacks, and my results

33
33
33
33
33
33
33
33
33
33

I f**king hate crafting.

Edit:
33
Break
66

[RaenRyong]

Seriously now? <_>

Echoing GreatGuardian's comment, it was this line of thought which amused me in that thread too. Some people complain that certain pieces of equipment are too hard to get, but if you dare suggest they pay a price which makes it profitable for a crafter to make it for them, they go into the whole victimised state where this evil capitalist crafter is raping them and their children.

Out of interest, are the same people complaining about prices here also the ones stating erroneously that "gil is useless"?

[Flunklesnarkin]

If anything.. a new player should take advantage of older players laziness and make stuff like shihei to make money for armor and such..

I know when i first started I would fill up my inventory with scorpion shells and claws then come back from afk with 100k from bazaaring... then i could go out and buy that armor i wanted.

It's not that hard to make gil.. even now.. in fact its probably easier for a new person.. selling crystals.. or making stuff most people are too lazy to make...

why would an older player waste time crafting.. npc cruor and buy consumables imo

[Zumi]

Ever heard of the phrase time is money. You are paying a premium for people's time, like on my server it the price seems to be 120k-150k for a stack of bags.


AND If Crafters want to make Money with these again, underbid the npc. Hell it would take me a week or two to get WW 60 but... i don't wanna...
yea thats mebbe cuz im lazy :P


First of all it does not take a week or two to get level 60 woodworking. I did it myself in 2 hours and you don't even lose much gil because you get a lot of it back from vendoring the stuff you skill up on. Shihei is only level 29 woodworking which can be gotten in about 1 hour. You can HQ more at level 60 but you can at least make it at 29.

So why don't you un-lazy and make your own shehei, if not hope you enjoy paying inflated prices. You got no room to complain when your problem can be fixed in 2 hours of work then spending the actual time to synth your own shihei.

[Mrbeansman]

Fuck you people who say that shihei are overpriced. The cost of Nebimonites has more then doubled since abyssea came out. You're aware that the cheapest process of making shihei requires buying nebimonites in jeuno going to windy to buy tee leaves going to sandy to get logs then grinding out a mind numbing number of synths. And in all of this you want me to sell them for less because "It's just not fair" NO NO NO. IIRC shihei really aren't worth making right now when you consider the time to gil ratio.

[Runespider]

I completely agree with you. I'm on one of the servers where shihei has breeched the 100k mark. It's robbery cause it takes less than 30k to make a stack of toolbags.

People play to have fun, gil has lost the majority of it's value now so if you want people to craft it instead of going off killing NM's or having fun doing other stuff you have to pay for their time. You aren't paying for the ingredients you are paying for that persons time, would you prefer 100k bags or NONE at all?

The reason people that complain won't go level the craft and make their own is the reason it's so expensive, people have a lot of other stuff they would rather do and since gil isn't as important anymore nobody can be bothered.

[Kraggy]

An economics class would do some of you a lot of good.
Of course, an economy in a fantasy game is so different from the 'real world' that such a course would by utterly pointless in this context.

[rog]

Of course, an economy in a fantasy game is so different from the 'real world' that such a course would by utterly pointless in this context.
You best be trollin'.

[Anethia]

People play to have fun, gil has lost the majority of it's value now so if you want people to craft it instead of going off killing NM's or having fun doing other stuff you have to pay for their time. You aren't paying for the ingredients you are paying for that persons time, would you prefer 100k bags or NONE at all?

The reason people that complain won't go level the craft and make their own is the reason it's so expensive, people have a lot of other stuff they would rather do and since gil isn't as important anymore nobody can be bothered.

So what you're saying is that because they take an hour, if even that, to make 10 stacks of toolbags, rather than camping an NM they may not even get anything off of, I have to pay an amount that is 3-5x more than the cost of the materials to make it? All because I'm paying for their time? Apparently you and I value time on a far different scale then, selling for 40k-50k a stack is more than enough to cover the cost of materials and still make a profit. It won't be as big a profit margin but the profit is there. Guess what, in real life my time is worth more to me than 15 dollars an hour, yet that's all that I get paid for providing a service.

You sound like those mid east oil jerks that artificially decrease the supply to force prices up, knowing that the ignorant masses will inevitably pay the inflated cost. It's not actually costing anymore to drill for it than normal, they just know they can artificially create a supply vs demand scenario to increase profits. It's called sticky pricing, decrease the supply to force the price up, when the price peaks you then increase the supply at the inflated price. The price will stay pretty much the same in contrast to the increased supply, thus causing a major jump in the overall profit margin.

[Kensagaku]

And again the same result comes up...

If you don't like the prices, go craft them yourself. If you're not going to take the time or effort to craft, buy them. Laziness or frugality, take your pick.

[CrystalWeapon]

Fact of the matter is it's a handful of crafters still crafting and selling. Since they are few and far inbetween, they can charge as much as they want. The only thing that would drive the price down at this point would be an influx of new crafters. If there was a large enough supply on the market the price would take a dive. As you said Thia it costs that much because they know they can charge that much and people would still buy it.

[Tannlore]

So much hate! Hacha!

Rather than sell the entire product at a cheaper price and cut out the crafter (a very bad idea.. I mean, why would you want to do that aside from just intentionally being rude?) Why not sell some of the mats through a vendor at a cheaper price? Cut the costs of production a bit to help drive the cost down?

[Mrbeansman]

So what you're saying is that because they take an hour, if even that, to make 10 stacks of toolbags, rather than camping an NM they may not even get anything off of, I have to pay an amount that is 3-5x more than the cost of the materials to make it? All because I'm paying for their time? Apparently you and I value time on a far different scale then, selling for 40k-50k a stack is more than enough to cover the cost of materials and still make a profit. It won't be as big a profit margin but the profit is there. Guess what, in real life my time is worth more to me than 15 dollars an hour, yet that's all that I get paid for providing a service.

You sound like those mid east oil jerks that artificially decrease the supply to force prices up, knowing that the ignorant masses will inevitably pay the inflated cost. It's not actually costing anymore to drill for it than normal, they just know they can artificially create a supply vs demand scenario to increase profits. It's called sticky pricing, decrease the supply to force the price up, when the price peaks you then increase the supply at the inflated price. The price will stay pretty much the same in contrast to the increased supply, thus causing a major jump in the overall profit margin.

I find it offensive to be compared to those kind of folks and really 70k a stack is to low when you factor in how long it takes to gather the materials and synth the shihei themselves.

[Octaviane]

I think i just rekindled my Hatred for Crafting. Went to go craft Shihei because of this thread, My Woodworking is 73. 2 Stacks of Ink/4 Bast got me 10 stacks of Shihei +33.

So i went to buy an other Stack of Ink/2Bast to finish off a full 12 Stacks, and my results

33
33
33
33
33
33
33
33
33
33

I f**king hate crafting.

Edit:
33
Break
66

Love it :) how true.

Seriously though, guess I am one of the lucky ones. I can make the black ink and buy the bast parchment to send to a friend to make shihei. We have a help system within our shell with different crafters. I can do the alchemy bit, someone else can do the cooking bit, another the woodworking, another gold, another fishes up the nebs for black ink and we all help one another with items we might need. If someone needs help farming something we do it. Anything left over goes on AH. :)

[Runespider]

So what you're saying is that because they take an hour, if even that, to make 10 stacks of toolbags, rather than camping an NM they may not even get anything off of, I have to pay an amount that is 3-5x more than the cost of the materials to make it? All because I'm paying for their time? Apparently you and I value time on a far different scale then, selling for 40k-50k a stack is more than enough to cover the cost of materials and still make a profit. It won't be as big a profit margin but the profit is there. Guess what, in real life my time is worth more to me than 15 dollars an hour, yet that's all that I get paid for providing a service.

I'm assuming you intended to go do something later, you need to scratch that and go make me shihei at cost or very little profit, get to it! Oh you don't want to you say? what if I offered a higher price?

See how it works?

You people make your own arguments for the high prices because honestly it's so easy to level WW to a point ot make this you should be doing it yourself? Yet, you dont because it's not worth your time.

[Mrbeansman]

You people make your own arguments for the high prices because honestly it's so easy to level WW to a point ot make this you should be doing it yourself? Yet, you dont because it's not worth your time.

I make shihei for personal use and if I'm starving for cash and the prices are high enough I'll make them to sell.

[Unaisis]

has anyone notice the thousands of ninjas flooding port jeuno lately?

[viion]

Even though its expensive I kind of understand it, I saw the prices and figured NOWAI. then I realised...

It cost me about 7k to make 1 stack myself, which 12 would be 80k, Not bad but a 12 stack from AH is 100k and I might just pay the extra 20 to avoid breaks and time consuming (as I can only make 33 with 29 ww), I think I would do this rather than pay the 150k it costs for a toolbag. Because I can put it into tool bags for like 5k myself, thus its only cost me 105k for 12 toolbags rather than the 150k on AH. (Hell I could make 45k profit here by doing piratically nothing lol)

It is high, but until its like 200k (or if u aint 150k) stfu lol im a returning character and plan to do ninja and im not scared of these prices. Making gil is too easy.

[Anethia]

Actually Rog you are the retard. Clearly you've never heard of competative markets (and you tell everyone else to take an economics class). Starting a business is nowhere near as easy you like to make it sound. I work in an industry where competitive bidding is the norm, in other words the company that offers to do the job for the least amount of money gets the contract. The same goes with employee's, the ones who will settle for less get the job. That means that in my chosen profession I'm actually between a rock and hard place. My wage barely covers expenses and isn't seeing any improvement in the near future. But I can't go find another job and make the same pay cause there is someone out there willing to do it for less. And in an economy where landscaping companies start up and fail daily, starting my own is not an option.

You sir are the one who needs a lesson in real world economics. Just because supply increases doesn't always mean that price goes down. When it comes down to real world commodities such as food and gasoline when the supply increases people buy more, thus an equavalent increase in demand follows the supply. Therefore prices never see a significant drop.

@ runespider, if I offended I apologize, my intent was only to make a comparison between the mentalities. But my point still stands, you think all your time is worth 70k, that is where you and I disagree. If the AH showed vendors that we could choose from it would promote a more competitive market.

For example:

Buyer looks up shihei on the AH and rather than just seeing current supply and price history if who bought and who the seller was (current system doesnt give a choice of who to buy from), instead we see:
*list of people selling comes up
*list shows their respective price
*buyer can now choose who to buy from based on how much they charge

You sell for 100k
I want your customers so I under bid you @ 90k
You want them back so you under bid me @85k
The catch being that you cannot buy out my inventory unless all yours sell or you pull them out of market, and same thing goes for me trying to buy you out.

And ultimately keeps going back and forth until it reaches a balancing point. In this way your "time" actually becomes worth less because people are now trying under bid you to take your business while still making money themselves. It's not THAT different than the current system but now gives an option of who to buy from rather than just blindly guessing and hope we get a lower price.

The way it works right now people just blindly buy at the going rate. Don't try bringing up "bazaar" cause that's a flawed system where the guy next to you can buy all your stuff then turn around and sell it at a higher price. Creating a lack in supply and drive the price up to his or her liking.

[rog]

Actually Rog you are the retard. Clearly you've never heard of competative markets (and you tell everyone else to take an economics class). Starting a business is nowhere near as easy you like to make it sound. I work in an industry where competitive bidding is the norm, in other words the company that offers to do the job for the least amount of money gets the contract. The same goes with employee's, the ones who will settle for less get the job. That means that in my chosen profession I'm actually between a rock and hard place. My wage barely covers expenses and isn't seeing any improvement in the near future. But I can't go find another job and make the same pay cause there is someone out there willing to do it for less. And in an economy where landscaping companies start up and fail daily, starting my own is not an option. But it is an option. If you cannot succeed in it, then too bad, that is your problem.


You sir are the one who needs a lesson in real world economics. Just because supply increases doesn't always mean that price goes down. When it comes down to real world commodities such as food and gasoline when the supply increases people buy more, thus an equavalent increase in demand follows the supply. Therefore prices never see a significant drop.Demand only increases because price drops. Demand does not go up simply because supply does. If prices do not change, then neither does demand. However, when supply goes up, prices tend to drop (maybe not right away, but if supply stays up, prices will gradually drop). If i did not want to buy the one X sitting on the shelf yesterday for $Y, then why would i want to buy it tomorrow for the same price, just because there is now 20 of them on the shelf? I would not. However, when the seller suddenly has 20 of the item instead of just one, then they are going to lower their price, in order to sell more of them. When they do, demand obviously increases, which causes the price to balance out at some point.

[Randwolf]

I can make most of my consumables except for food and Bloody Bolt Heads. I leveled my crafts specifically so I would not have to rely on the AH and the market controlling it. I rarely craft to sell because I hate getting in the middle of gougers and undercutters. So, to the OP, it is supply and demand. And, insisting that it isn't won't make it true. The problem is you have all these people using supplies but no one wants to take time out from their busy schedule to make their own consumables. Well then, you pay for the convenience. And when you have a ton of people who want convenience, prices go through the roof.

I bought my NIN tools until the prices went crazy. At that point, I decided to start making them again. So, if you aren't leveling a craft, which is part of the game, I feel no sympathy for you when you are paying through the nose just so you don't have to take your precious time and do something for yourself.

[Dubberrucky]

Just a note before people start getting confused. Profit and loss analysis is different than supply and demand. Time spent doing an activity is calculated via profit and loss, market fluctuations are supply and demand. Just like someones boss will set a wage for a said job those decisions are based on profit and loss analysis, just like people choose to craft or choose to camp/farm or both. The market selling prices are based on supply and demand. For instance just over a year ago most NIN tools were cheaper on the ah than the NPCs but now they are inflated because there are far more people buying tools it is not just the 1 type that has risen drastically.

Both the ingredients and finished product for shihei are low level synthesis. If you don't believe 100-150k is worth a few hours of work then level the crafts to make them for yourself it will only take you a few hours to get them to that point then you can have no reason at all apart from laziness to complain about the price.