View Full Version : Beastmaster VivaciousVickie Valorous Snort haste is magical
Beastmaster VivaciousVickie Valorous Snort haste is magical
Platform:
Windows
ISP:
WOW
Type of Internet Connection:
Cable
Internet Connection Speed:
200 Mbps
Date & Time:
6PM EDT 8/26/20
Frequency:
Always
Character Name:
Xilkk
Race:
Race of your character when the issue occurred.
Hume M
World:
Asura
Main Job:
Beastmaster
Support Job:
Ninja
Area and Coordinates:
Garlaige Citadel
Party or Solo:
Solo
NPC Name:
Trusts: Arciela
Monster Name:
Mephitas
Steps:
Summon VivaciousVickie with beastmaster
use Zealous Snort Ready ability
The haste effect will over-write haste 2 from trusts, but will NOT be overwritten by haste2 from trust.
Zealous Snort haste comes from a Job Ability, but it is treated like the magic spell.
Shouldn't the effect be job ability haste?
Sirmarki
08-28-2020, 10:25 AM
I also noticed this with trusts, and posted as a similar bug (about two years ago).
If one trust casts Haste (1) on you, the next trust (RDM) wont cast Haste II on you.
Well, pet ready moves are actually job abilities... so why is it in the magical slot at all?
so even though a 25% haste over-writing haste 2 (30% haste) from player or trust is weird, its more strange that it is considered magical haste at all.
should be more like last resort, hasso, haste samba, or whatever its called drg has.
Catmato
08-29-2020, 11:32 AM
Even though it's from a job ability, the effect it adds is still "Haste", yes? I would assume it's working as intended.
@Simarki
I don't really think that's a bug. Why would a trust try to haste you when you already have haste? If you cancel the Haste 1 effect, they will attempt to cast Haste 2 on you the next chance they get.
Sirmarki
08-29-2020, 07:50 PM
@Simarki
I don't really think that's a bug. Why would a trust try to haste you when you already have haste? If you cancel the Haste 1 effect, they will attempt to cast Haste 2 on you the next chance they get.
Because Haste (1) is a weaker version of the spell. If a real human player WHM and RDM are in your group and the RDM refuses to cast Haste II on you, because you have Haste 1 on you (already cast from the WHM) then you wouldn't
be happy, right?
Dragoy
08-30-2020, 08:18 AM
Because Haste (1) is a weaker version of the spell. If a real human player WHM and RDM are in your group and the RDM refuses to cast Haste II on you, because you have Haste 1 on you (already cast from the WHM) then you wouldn't
be happy, right?
Yeah, I found it weird too, but then I noticed that Arciela /does/ cast 'Haste II' over 'Haste' pretty often, which made me think it might be intentional due to the fact that they don't want creeper... er, alter egos to be as good as real people. It would make sense (in a way), as you'd trade off some things Koru-Moru for example does that Arciela doesn't, but get more better Haste.
In any case, I certainly wish all of them would prioritise 'Haste II'.
Catmato
08-31-2020, 12:21 PM
Because Haste (1) is a weaker version of the spell. If a real human player WHM and RDM are in your group and the RDM refuses to cast Haste II on you, because you have Haste 1 on you (already cast from the WHM) then you wouldn't
be happy, right?
Right, but they aren't humans. The RDM trust script probably sees that you have haste so it doesn't cast haste 2. I'm not advocating for it to be that way, I'm just speculating why it happens.
Sirmarki
08-31-2020, 05:57 PM
Right, but they aren't humans. The RDM trust script probably sees that you have haste so it doesn't cast haste 2. I'm not advocating for it to be that way, I'm just speculating why it happens.
They aren't no, however from a programming perspective, I'm assuming the Haste "slot" holds the same ID for "Haste II" and vice versa.
if $ID=0 then cast haste
$ID now equals 1
RDM sees $ID=1 and not 0, so doesn't cast Haste II kind of thing.
That's my guess anyway.
I'm assuming the pet issue as OP has stated is due to a similar effect.
Alhanelem
09-02-2020, 05:17 AM
Well, pet ready moves are actually job abilities... so why is it in the magical slot at all?
so even though a 25% haste over-writing haste 2 (30% haste) from player or trust is weird, its more strange that it is considered magical haste at all.
should be more like last resort, hasso, haste samba, or whatever its called drg has.
The ability itself may be magical in nature. Abilities can cause magical damage, etc. so being a TP move on a pet doesn't necessairly mean it can't be magic haste. I don't think this is a bug, it's a design decision.
Ifrit's flaming crush is affected by fire resistance but the move is treated as physical by the game. There are also damage dealing Ward pacts... so there is really no consistency whatsoever.
Even though it's from a job ability, the effect it adds is still "Haste", yes? I would assume it's working as intended.
@Simarki
I don't really think that's a bug. Why would a trust try to haste you when you already have haste? If you cancel the Haste 1 effect, they will attempt to cast Haste 2 on you the next chance they get.
Well, you know what happens when you assume things.
Dancer grants job ability haste thru haste samba. Samurai grants job ability haste thru hasso. Dark Knight gets Job ability haste thru Last Resort and Desperate blows. Why in the world would think it should be Magical haste? Ready moves, like bloodpacts, are Job Abilities.
If we want to insist that it should be magical, then bloodpacts and ready moves which cause magical damage should count for Omen objectives for nuking... but they don't. They count as job abilities.
Ifrit's flaming crush is affected by fire resistance but the move is treated as physical by the game.
Actually, Flaming Crush is Hybrid damage like some samurai and ninja weaponskills. There is both a physical portion and magical portion. None of which has anything to do with zealous snort being magical haste, as we are comparing magic and job abilities... not bloodpacts and weaponskills.
There are several affects zealous snort grants. There is no reason to assume any of them should be magical.
In fact the magical nature of this haste makes it completely useless, and almost always detrimental. The only time is is NOT detrimental, is when you are completely solo and have no trusts.
Damage dealing bloodpact: ward are limited to those inflicting status ailments which deal damage. It is consistent. The only place where 'job abilities' are treated like magic spells are with Blue magic.
Catmato
09-05-2020, 11:50 PM
If we want to insist that it should be magical
Again, I'm not advocating for anything. I'm not saying it SHOULD be one way or another, I'm just speculating why it happens the way it does.
None of Haste Samba, Hasso, nor Desperate Blows give you the Haste status effect so they have no conflict with Haste (I/II). Valorous Snort gives you the Haste status effect, so it conflicts with the effects from the the Haste (I/II) spells. The logic behind the behavior makes sense. Whether it should be Haste (I/II), job ability haste, a different magical haste, equipment haste, weaponskill haste, or some other kind of haste is a balancing issue and probably not a bug.
Alhanelem
09-07-2020, 09:44 AM
Actually, Flaming Crush is Hybrid damage like some samurai and ninja weaponskills. There is both a physical portion and magical portion. None of which has anything to do with zealous snort being magical haste, as we are comparing magic and job abilities... not bloodpacts and weaponskills. It has everything to do with it. The point is whether something is a spell or ability or whatever else does not guarantee what type of effect it provides. And that is a design decision, not a bug. A bug would be if it wasn't giving the advertised amount of haste (if it specified somewhere, either in game or in an official source), or if it wasn't giving the effect at all. But it not giving the kind of haste you want it to have isn't a bug.
Ultimately, the way its designed now (granting the haste status effect) it grants magical haste because that's what the status effect does. It isn't anything as complex as you might think.