THIS HAS TO END

[Clou777]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157666429456867&set=gm.2444984672461289&type=3&theater&ifg=1

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157666429456867&set=gm.2444984672461289&type=3&theater&ifg=1

[Clou777]

RMT have completely taken over the server, it's hard to find a legit /yell now

[Sirmarki]

RMT have completely taken over the server, it's hard to find a legit /yell now

Blacklisting them just isn't an option because there are just too many (my list is full, and has been for months).

There are scattered content yells, probably 5% (I think I worked it out once). The rest are mercs and RMT.

Despite the numbers, I don't think Asura is as active as it is made out to be. Your best bet is to find a good active linkshell and turn yell off, as hard as it may be, it seems to be the only option these days.
Merc culture has ruined the game, and is accepted as the new normal, which is why nothing ever happens anymore.

[Pixela]

They are not RMT.

Whether you like it or not, the top 20-30% of a servers population want and lust after REMA. They make one, then make another and on and on. The cost of a REMA is 300-400million+ and it's hard to make that kind of money without doing stuff like you see in those yells.

[Sirmarki]

They are not RMT.

They yell 24/7 and bot in vast numbers. You're telling me they are legit players that are doing it 'because they lust after REMA'???

[Pixela]

Yes, anyone can setup a yell bot and anyone can have alts botting. Actual players do that, shocking I know.

[Pixela]

Merc culture has ruined the game, and is accepted as the new normal, which is why nothing ever happens anymore.


The problem is very simple. Nobody wants to make groups, they don't want the pressure of making a group. The people who have the gusto to make groups, now merc instead because why not?

As such, most of the server just sits and wait for someone else to make a group and so none get made.

[Sirmarki]

The problem is very simple. Nobody wants to make groups, they don't want the pressure of making a group. The people who have the gusto to make groups, now merc instead because why not?

Like I said, mercing has ruined the game, and this has been echoed from players from all kinds of different backgrounds (including former mercs and established players).
Secondly, most mercs are using third party software to control 5 other characters.

It's as simple as that.

If rules weren't being broken, and mechanics manipulated, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

https://i.imgur.com/jbF02qP.gif

[Alhanelem]

Blacklisting them just isn't an option because there are just too many (my list is full, and has been for months).

There are scattered content yells, probably 5% (I think I worked it out once). The rest are mercs and RMT.

Despite the numbers, I don't think Asura is as active as it is made out to be. Your best bet is to find a good active linkshell and turn yell off, as hard as it may be, it seems to be the only option these days.
Merc culture has ruined the game, and is accepted as the new normal, which is why nothing ever happens anymore.

The smaller servers have been a better choice for a while. More of the people on them are actual players, as a percentage. And there is less RMT. Most people being on one server is great for RMT becuase they don't have to maintain inventory on a bunch of servers, they can just do everything on one and with plenty of supply and cheap prices, they get tones of sales.

[Alhanelem]

They are not RMT.

Whether you like it or not, the top 20-30% of a servers population want and lust after REMA. They make one, then make another and on and on. The cost of a REMA is 300-400million+ and it's hard to make that kind of money without doing stuff like you see in those yells.

I grinded dynamis and Gain EXP to get most of mine. You don't need mercs to make gil, or at least you didn't before they capped sparks....

[Pixela]

I grinded dynamis and Gain EXP to get most of mine. You don't need mercs to make gil, or at least you didn't before they capped sparks....

An average REMA is 300-500 million gil to upgrade to max, that's a whole lot of grinding. Many people who make more than one cannot put up with that amount of grinding more than once or twice and so look for faster ways.

[Sirmarki]

The smaller servers have been a better choice for a while. More of the people on them are actual players, as a percentage. And there is less RMT. Most people being on one server is great for RMT becuase they don't have to maintain inventory on a bunch of servers, they can just do everything on one and with plenty of supply and cheap prices, they get tones of sales.

Yes, providing they can find and join an active linkshell where players are engaged in content. The problem is that those linkshells probably have their own set static groups doing content together for years, and are less likely to let a new face into that clique. It can take a significant amount of trust buildup and getting to know said person before that happens.

But yes, if people do manage to (1) Find an active linkshell and (2) Get in with the clique, then they (in my opinion) will get to enjoy this game in the best possible way - whatever server you are on.

[Sirmarki]

Many people who make more than one cannot put up with that amount of grinding more than once or twice and so look for faster ways.

It's an MMORPG - It is designed for longevity.

[Pixela]

It's an MMORPG - It is designed for longevity.

So do you walk everywhere and refuse to use fast travel?

Point is that REMA are very expensive and so they find the fastest way to make gil to fund them, it's not all RMT (although some are obviously)

[Sirmarki]

So do you walk everywhere and refuse to use fast travel?

What has getting from point (a) to point (b) got to do with working on REMA?
Faster travel has always been in the game i.e Outpost warps and chocobos.

Anyway, the point is that a significant amount of JP sellers are at least one or both of the following:
1. Using automated third party software (to kill monsters and spam the yell system).
2. RMT.

[Alhanelem]

Yes, providing they can find and join an active linkshell where players are engaged in content. The problem is that those linkshells probably have their own set static groups doing content together for years, and are less likely to let a new face into that clique. It can take a significant amount of trust buildup and getting to know said person before that happens.

But yes, if people do manage to (1) Find an active linkshell and (2) Get in with the clique, then they (in my opinion) will get to enjoy this game in the best possible way - whatever server you are on.

I had one linkshell already despite my own inactivity, and when i pinged a friend to do recruit people for a PvP stream after I set up an Player Event Support event and no one showed up (I do FFXIV pvp streaming and i wanted to show my viewers the old school pvp), suddenly their entire linkshell was in on it and bam, i had another one. reach out to people, use the concierges, /yells, it really isn't that hard to find an LS


As far as the grinding. I did nearly all of it myself (some friends did give me currency loans to finish sooner but I did repay them :) ). Yeah, it took a while, but it isn't really that bad these days since old dynamis doesn't have a reentry limit anymore you can grind out currency as long as you want. You can also get a pretty decent amount from ambuscade which everyone is doing anyway, and gain EXP used to be a couple million gil three times a week.

[Typral]

The point of the grinding is to prolong the games life artifically. It's sad but what else can they do when they refuse to expend resources for this game :/. The only reason you see people with so many now is because literally more than 70% of the population plays more than one character which exponentially increases all their gains for each character they have. SE set up all their events and reward systems so that it benefits people who multi-box characters.

[Kawar]

The smaller servers have been a better choice for a while. More of the people on them are actual players, as a percentage. And there is less RMT. Most people being on one server is great for RMT becuase they don't have to maintain inventory on a bunch of servers, they can just do everything on one and with plenty of supply and cheap prices, they get tones of sales.I hate RMT more then you know.

but its easy do what vets like me would of done in the 75 days and earlyer find a way to do what you want legit then be come the model for your server on how to do it the right way and be the servers go 2 player to help others.

remember ffxi at its core is help and be a team player.

so like i said be the force for good it wont be easy but work it how it works best for the health of your players and your server

[Sirmarki]

I hate RMT more then you know.

but its easy do what vets like me would of done in the 75 days and earlyer find a way to do what you want legit then be come the model for your server on how to do it the right way and be the servers go 2 player to help others.

remember ffxi at its core is help and be a team player.

so like i said be the force for good it wont be easy but work it how it works best for the health of your players and your server

I agree with what you are saying, but the modern generation (on Asura anyway) no longer think like that.
If somebody asks for help on Asura, they get asked how much gil are they willing to pay for it.

[Alhanelem]

I hate RMT more then you know.

but its easy do what vets like me would of done in the 75 days and earlyer find a way to do what you want legit then be come the model for your server on how to do it the right way and be the servers go 2 player to help others.

remember ffxi at its core is help and be a team player.

so like i said be the force for good it wont be easy but work it how it works best for the health of your players and your serverI do. People helped me when I came in so if there's something I can do to make someone else's experience better I do.

[Pixela]

I agree with what you are saying, but the modern generation (on Asura anyway) no longer think like that.
If somebody asks for help on Asura, they get asked how much gil are they willing to pay for it.

This isn't true, unless you're asking for help with something that is a lot of effort.

I've asked for help and got it, I've seen others ask for help and got it, ive helped others who asked.

[Sirmarki]

This isn't true, unless you're asking for help with something that is a lot of effort.

Can you give me an example of 'what is a lot of effort'?
It was only yesterday that someone was asking for a few chapter 1's and ended up having to offer 2 million because nobody would help - then alas, when he did, someone came right out of the woodwork and took up their /yell.

[Gwydion]

Can you give me an example of 'what is a lot of effort'?
It was only yesterday that someone was asking for a few chapter 1's and ended up having to offer 2 million because nobody would help - then alas, when he did, someone came right out of the woodwork and took up their /yell.

Sure. Leaving your mog house to help someone. The bare minimum effort to help another unfamiliar person, will cost you gil on Asura.

Edit: I'd like to point out that FFXI content in recent years has SOME OF THE WORST incentives to group together or actually de-incentives people to form groups or do content repeatedly. (Omen especially and Dyna-D sometimes when folks can't agree on Waves or to farm Volte pieces).

[Pixela]

Can you give me an example of 'what is a lot of effort'?
It was only yesterday that someone was asking for a few chapter 1's and ended up having to offer 2 million because nobody would help - then alas, when he did, someone came right out of the woodwork and took up their /yell.

First off, you don't know if they got help for free or it was paid. I've offered help with things for free when someone offered gil to help, so do many others. Secondly, why didn't you help? Do these help rules only apply to others and not you? "oh this person was shouting for ages and NOBODY helped at all, I was standing there watching for an hour and nobody helped"

Anyway, if someone wants help with chapters they should ask for help to clear a specific BCNM once or twice, if they make it seem like it could go on for ages people won't help. People like to have an idea how long something will take, they don't want to get stuck helping someone for ages they will get nothing from if that might need 8 chapters. The problem is, there are people who will take advantage of the good nature of others too, I've had this.

Things that people will help with (that I've seen people help with this week, or had help, or helped), a mission clear like rhaps final mission, a ambuscade clear for oboro, a piece of gear from a fairly easy NM like something from zitah, 3 mage gate, help with an assault mission, a quick bcnm clear, an AF NM kill.

If you want help, it should be a specific thing that isn't likely to take ages. If you say "I need 2 chapters, can someone help me clear the BCNM on Easy or N" then you are more likely to get help from someone that's bored than saying "I need some chapter 1s plz help"

Things that people are not going to help with, something that is boring, something that takes 30 minutes or more, something that needs more than 1 or 2 people and requires making a group, killing something with a drop you can sell for a lot, a UNM NM kill when you don't say "I need 2-3 kills", cause this could go on for ages or "I need a PL from 40-70, HELP ME PLZ"

It is common sense that if you're asking people to help you, it's going to take longer than if you offer gil. Why are you surprised by this? If you shout for help twice and then offer 2m you're going to get help right away. You're giving them something for their time and not asking someone to help you for no benefit.

I help people quite often, they even offer gil at the end when I didn't ask for it and didn't want it. The problem is everyone says nobody helps unless you give gil, and when someone gives you help for free they throw money at them anyway. Which is training everyone that they should take it and stop helping for free, people are also impatient. If you want free help, maybe you will have to shout for 30-60 mins, the world doesn't exist for your benefit.

[Sirmarki]

First off, you don't know if they got help for free or it was paid. I've offered help with things for free when someone offered gil to help, so do many others. Secondly, why didn't you help? Do these help rules only apply to others and not you?

Maybe... Just Maybe... because I wasn't at my computer and doing something else elsewhere (i.e working), while standing in town with the "shout" screen open.....


Sure. Leaving your mog house to help someone. The bare minimum effort to help another unfamiliar person, will cost you gil on Asura.

Exactly that.

[Zehira]

Yes, very difficult to find legit players you want to play with depending on your schedule. It seems more and more players have filtered out or don't pay attention to /yell. They are all for linkshells.

You gotta try Reddit if search for one in /yell doesn't work.

[Sirmarki]

Yes, very difficult to find legit players you want to play with depending on your schedule. It seems more and more players have filtered out or don't pay attention to /yell. They are all for linkshells.

You gotta try Reddit if search for one in /yell doesn't work.

Yes, I have yell turned off now for 90% of the time. I turn it on occasionally to see what is happening, and then realise nothing has changed, and it is equally as depressing and annoying as before.
I tend to focus on my Linkshell now, which is active at 7PM my time. Daytime GMT seems completely dead now, with JP sellers and mercs dominating the entire yell, so yeah, it's pointless having it on.

I kind of wish that SE would add a /safelist option (seeing as the blist is pretty much useless now - capped at 100), that way I can filter though and safe list actual players who are known for creating groups for people to join.

[Vold]

Despite the numbers, I don't think Asura is as active as it is made out to be.
I guess it depends on your definition. Looking from the outside, Asura sure seems pretty damn active to me when I look at your AH situation vs my server. It's a pretty incredible difference. Things here that doesn't appear on AH for days and weeks appear there daily and are the norm. I have to admit, that's pretty tempting to make the jump. But I could never deal with the congestion you guys do. There is just no way. I like being able to do everything I want anytime I want. But it sure would be nice if things were bought and sold as often as they used to be.

[genghis]

It's many Gil buyers players don't wana join group yell doing things ... They have money so they going after RMT for easily gears up for just AFK . i am from Asura too i shout for many but nowsaday its getting harder to get players into line . Instead of yelling i form my Zens ls and do things with my ls members it's better and more progressives .

[BST]

You can leave /Yell off and just check FFXIAH (You can view any World's /Yell) for the latest shouts, if you really want to see. I only check the website if I'm looking to sell Orbs.

[Splendid]

I read through this entire thread, and I agree. This has to stop. I remember this time last year still seeing real people actually shout for stuff, but now it’s just blocks of bot text selling stuff to each other. I understand that lower population servers don’t have as much of this going on—as openly, but make no mistake, they are there farming endlessly without a real person at the wheel. I don’t want to leave Asura because I’ve been here for four years and there’s a lot of people here I still enjoy playing with. I don’t know what happened between the beginning of the year and now but Asura is way over capacity even though the bulk of the characters online are bots and multiple account holders. I can’t even get into Nyzul to do one casual run today because a literal horde is down there with their legions of multiple accounts spamming the entrance to get in.

[Pixela]

Goto Dho Gates and see the ARMY of people AFK who have bought Job Points from these botters, it's maddening that the developers have not addressed this.

At a bare minimum they should accept that the current system to obtain job points is broken, it is too difficult and time consuming and so everyone is just bypassing it and buying them to cap in days instead. Not only are they negating the content that is supposed to keep people playing and doing content, you are making it impossible for legit players who want to farm their own job points to get any because the botters kill so fast there aren't any for anyone else.

The options on Asura:
Buy job points:
Find some camp that isn't very good to farm your job points:
Don't get any job points:

I used to be able to farm job points myself, now there aren't any monsters to kill to get them in the best camps because the botters are there 24/7.

Developers, please goto Dho Gates on Asura and see the state of it. How long are you going to leave this? Just send a GM there at the very least to scare them a bit?

They shout constantly to sell, spamming /yell and the camps are full of bots and buyers. Most of these bots seem to be bought accounts that they use to make gil to sell, they all use the same exact strategy of Jinpu sam with mega buffs.

Some ideas to fix it:

Send a GM there to scare them.
Stop Apex monsters giving CP outside of a party, no alliance CP and just party only (this will be an easy fix for most of this, since the ability to fill an alliance is the main problem)

It's really disgusting how many are there now, armies. You addressed the RMT selling sparks, now they are all selling job points instead. To highlight how laughable it is getting they are selling 500 job points for 5m, 5m is nothing.

They are destroying the longevity of the game by destroying job points acquisition.
They are spamming /yell.
They are taking over CP farm spots to stop others getting any
They are bots, they are RMT that do this 24/7.

[Sirmarki]

They are destroying the longevity of the game by destroying job points acquisition.
They are spamming /yell.
They are taking over CP farm spots to stop others getting any
They are bots, they are RMT that do this 24/7.


There are scattered content yells, probably 5% (I think I worked it out once). The rest are mercs and RMT.


They are not RMT.

So you have changed your mind since that comment?

[Alhanelem]

I really think it's time for an exodus off Asura. lol

They should do what XIV does and offer free transfers from higher pop servers (Asura) to lower pop servers (everywhere else)

[Zehira]

I agree with Alhanelem. Also rename Shiva to Shiva (EN) so players don't get confused which server they pick since most of them prefer a server with the most English-speaking players and selling more on the AH.

Asura is my home server since Pandemonium got merged with, so I belong there. Now Asura has 3.5k~ online players... =.= lol

[Alhanelem]

I agree with Alhanelem. Also rename Shiva to Shiva (EN) so players don't get confused which server they pick since most of them prefer a server with the most English-speaking players and selling more on the AH.

Asura is my home server since Pandemonium got merged with, so I belong there. Now Asura has 3.5k~ online players... =.= lol I'm not sure that, as a percentage of its population, that Shiva has a higher proportion of English players than any other. Not saying it's not possible but it's not something I've noticed.

[Pixela]

I've noticed JP players moving to Asura over the past year, there were barely ever any JP shouts or players. Now you see them quite often, it's still dominated by English players but they are coming here.

[Zehira]

I've noticed JP players moving to Asura over the past year, there were barely ever any JP shouts or players. Now you see them quite often, it's still dominated by English players but they are coming here.

I bet. They all are like it can't be helped, can it? www

Not that it bothers me anyway. They don't really do /yell spams. Oh, I read someone from Shiva complaining that no one has gil to buy stuff. It's kind of an interesting perspective though.

[Immortal]

Now that you mention it, I've noticed more JP players as well.

[Zehira]

This could be why the developers decided to create an /assist channel. The problem is how can you able to implement a party finder on an outdated engine FFXI has? Having a party finder could solve everything. Not to mention it could be abused by RMTs and bots.

Yes, just Asura things.

[Kylos]

If people didn't pay these people to play the game for them they wouldn't keep yelling for the services. You pay to play the game, but then you pay others to play the game for you. What kind of backwards logic is that? It's not like getting to 2100 JP is tough, you just need to spend some time in a party... and on a huge server you're in the best place to find people to get points with.

If you are sick and tired of the constant yell spam, move to a smaller server and enjoy a spam free /yell and get in to parties with actual players. Yeah, so there are less people here, but you won't have to endure what are clearly big server problems. Camps on this server are way easier to find as well.


I really think it's time for an exodus off Asura. lol

They should do what XIV does and offer free transfers from higher pop servers (Asura) to lower pop servers (everywhere else)

Ugh. I've been saying this for YEARS but would usually get laughed at for suggesting it.

[Divinas]

The day I left Asura is the day I made true friends again on this game lol. That server not worth being on.

[Eth]

A bit of a tangent.. it would greatly lessen the demand for CP merc services if more game content gave CP rewards, and mission lines that you can complete only once gave big CP rewards, to give new characters a leg up:

- 200 CP each for completing a starter city mission line, and for Zilart/CoP/TAU/WoG/Adoulin. This would get new characters to 1200 CP on their first job.
- CP for completing higher-tier battlefields, but only on VE/E (you wouldn't want to add value to merc services that sell higher difficulties).

[Sirmarki]

A bit of a tangent.. it would greatly lessen the demand for CP merc services if more game content gave CP rewards, and mission lines that you can complete only once gave big CP rewards, to give new characters a leg up:

You already get CP bonuses for completing the storylines. +10% overall for each and every city your complete mission wise, and also a % increased per WKR, and all kinds of other Reive via the RoE completion of each area.
You can also do monster rearing for 9% CP reward overall.

So with all these bonuses, you would gain CP a lot quicker.

Anyway, we have a ~triple CP event on right now, but it doesn't stop people buying JP's from the bots/mercs/whatever you want to call them.

[Pixela]

I think they are planning to make Abyssea 119, which will allow you to get CP there. sometime..

[Divinas]

I think they are planning to make Abyssea 119, which will allow you to get CP there. sometime..

ewww don't give them disgusting ideas

[Alhanelem]

Half the point of ilvls and job points was to make us feel powerful outside abyssea again lol.

Still.... we are STILL waiting on a way to +2/+3 empyrean armor...

[Teraniku]

Half the point of ilvls and job points was to make us feel powerful outside abyssea again lol.

Still.... we are STILL waiting on a way to +2/+3 empyrean armor...

And still no clue as to how (It's either going to be VW, Abyssea or maybe they'll Dynamis-D Valkurm / Buburimu / Qufm / Tavnazia)

[BobbinT]

sadly, think Bahamut also got affected as well. Kinda surprise my returning during free login only saw those kind of shouts these days. ^^;

[Mike]

Asura is too much of a sh#t show to realistically play on for many players anymore.
When I decided to build the Empy shield, I had to leave Asura. I wasn't going to compete with Iron Plate mercs et al. who were using all sorts of cheats to out-pop me.
When I wanted to self farm dynamis currency from dreamland zones or Jeuno, I had to leave Asura. Asura has had too many 24/7 bots for many, many years. Reisenjima has had the same issue at many good camps.
As mentioned already, Dho Gates JP'ing solo or with friends is impossible on Asura due to the botters and their trash customers.
Also mentioned earlier, Nyzle Isle/Einherjar entry is almost impossible at times as well on Asura.
Ambuscade et al. after monthly update have such long wait lines on Asura that it's 95% standing around and 5% actually playing the game.

@Pixela, yes most of those JP botters are Chinese RMT. My wife is Chinese and chats with them every so often.

[BobbinT]

how do u even chat in chinese anyways? not sure u can type chinese alphabet in FF11... :?

[Dzspdref]

Yes, anyone can setup a yell bot and anyone can have alts botting. Actual players do that, shocking I know.

No, not "anyone can setup a yell bot" ... nor "anyone can have alts botting."
Only those people playing against the TOS using 3rd party outside software to run that bot can do it.
I use the vanilla in-game program only, and there is NO WAY for someone to make a 24/7 in-game yell bot with the ONLY LEGAL version of the game.

[Alhanelem]

No, not "anyone can setup a yell bot" ... nor "anyone can have alts botting."
Only those people playing against the TOS using 3rd party outside software to run that bot can do it.
I use the vanilla in-game program only, and there is NO WAY for someone to make a 24/7 in-game yell bot with the ONLY LEGAL version of the game.
Actually, many keyboards can be made to press a key at periodic intervals right on the keyboard without even installing anything. So no, you don't really need third party tools to spam a chat macro. The gaming keyboards many of us have been using for years can do that. Are you going to brand people cheaters just for having modern gaming hardware?

[Catmato]

Actually, many keyboards can be made to press a key at periodic intervals right on the keyboard without even installing anything. So no, you don't really need third party tools to spam a chat macro. The gaming keyboards many of us have been using for years can do that. Are you going to brand people cheaters just for having modern gaming hardware?

Just because it's hardware rather than software doesn't mean it's not a 3rd party tool. Any kind of automation that you can't do with in-game macros is a third party tool.

[Alhanelem]

Just because it's hardware rather than software doesn't mean it's not a 3rd party tool. Any kind of automation that you can't do with in-game macros is a third party tool.
Then they'll have to ban me for owning a gaming keyboard. Which literally no other PC game in existence would consider cheating. Sounds fair. And that gaming mouse? OMG, i've got a super duper gameplay advantage over you with that!

This is ignoring the fact that if you have nothing better to do you can just press macros yourself. The method witch which people spurt inane chat macros doesn't change how annoying or not annoying they are. There is also no way for you to legitimately distinguish someone automatically spamming a macro and manually doing so other than irregularity in frequency. using /wait commands you can repeat the same thing three times with a single macro. So I guess you're telling me you're totally fine with chat spam as long as they're not using a keyboard or a program to do it? (The reality is, chat spam is against the rules whether you're automating it or not)

If you think the community shouldn't be able to come up with reasonable QOL improvements when SE won't or isn't able to, then man, I hope you never play WoW, where you're literally expected to have custom UIs to play. Most guilds won't even let you join them if you don't have one (or assume you're bad because you're not tracking your DPS).

You have to look at the spirit of the rule, not just the letter. I'm totally okay with people using UI mods and such. That doesn't mean I'm okay with cheating, like speed hacking or teleporting around the map. There is a clear difference between those things. Someone with less than great vision might use an external tool to make the HP bars bigger or a different color because SE never bothered to implement accessibility options for people with poor vision or color blindness. Are you going to report people for that? I'm curious for what your case is that those people are hurting your gameplay experience. Many people like these aren't looking for a gameplay advantage, they're looking to be able to play in spite of physical disabilities.

[Catmato]

Then they'll have to ban me for owning a gaming keyboard. Which literally no other PC game in existence would consider cheating. Sounds fair. And that gaming mouse? OMG, i've got a super duper gameplay advantage over you with that!

Sarcasm aside, I'm not sure if you're just acting daft, but owning a keyboard with macro capabilities doesn't violate the ToS; using it to gain an advantage over other players, such as the previous example of infinitely spamming /yell, does.

Alternatively, look at it this way. I have Cheat Engine installed on my PC. That doesn't violate SE's ToS because I'm not using it to modify FFXI or bypass its limits. You can have and use a g15 keyboard without violating the ToS until you use it, for example, to bypass the game's 6 line macro limit. Once you use the g15 to repeat functions or automate a macro, you're using a 3rd party tool and are violating the ToS.


This is ignoring the fact that if you have nothing better to do you can just press macros yourself. The method witch which people spurt inane chat macros doesn't change how annoying or not annoying they are. There is also no way for you to legitimately distinguish someone automatically spamming a macro and manually doing so other than irregularity in frequency. using /wait commands you can repeat the same thing three times with a single macro. So I guess you're telling me you're totally fine with chat spam as long as they're not using a keyboard or a program to do it? (The reality is, chat spam is against the rules whether you're automating it or not)

The difference is that you actually have to be at the PC to press the macro to yell. If you're using a 3rd party tool, you can spam your macro 24/7, both annoying people who don't want to see it and giving you an unfair advantage over people who aren't cheating. If you aren't cheating, you have to be there to press the macro again, taking breaks as a real human would.

I hope you never play WoW, where you're literally expected to have custom UIs to play.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't WoW officially support add-ons? If so, that's a completely disingenuous comparison.


Are you going to report people for that? I'm curious for what your case is that those people are hurting your gameplay experience. Many people like these aren't looking for a gameplay advantage, they're looking to be able to play in spite of physical disabilities.

I'm not reporting anyone for anything. I don't care if you need a schoolgirl outfit mod, a colorblind mod, an assistive controller, a script that yells at every opportunity, or scripts that change 90 pieces of gear for every action; it's none of my business. Don't put words in my mouth and don't try to turn a discussion about what is and isn't against the ToS into a personal attack on me.

[Alhanelem]

The difference is that you actually have to be at the PC to press the macro to yell.If you think this never happens, well, it does happen. :p People manually use /yell and /shout macros all the time for recruitment or trying to buy/sell stuff. Multitasking is a thing. Press your chat marco, tab to web browser, tab back to game and press it again. Of course, 15+ years ago it wasn't possible. So at least they eventually let us window the game without tools.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't WoW officially support add-ons? If so, that's a completely disingenuous comparison."officially support" in the sense that it's not a TOS violation. But their GMs nor tech support will help you if it breaks anything. Which it absolutely can.

I just really don't like the whole holier-than-thou vibe I got from your comments on this subject. Maybe that really isn't your intent, but that's how it came off to me. But at least you can draw a distinction from outright cheating (i.e. cheatengine) and quality-of-life / accessibility improvements. and I think SE looks at these things in context (and considers spirit and not just letter of the rule) as well.

FFXIV does this as well. The producer himself has gone on the record saying he doesn't have much of an issue with people using things like parsers or stat tracking for self improvement, even though it's *technically* against the TOS. They generally only take action if such tools are used to harass/harm others i.e. being toxic towards another player for putting out lower DPS than you'd like)

Originally, FFXIV was going to allow UI modding (and the built in UI is built with LUA script), but they ended up just investing their energy in continually improving and expanding the flexibility of the UI, which is vastly more customizable than WoW's built in UI.

This is something that the FFXI devs never handled very well, which is why UI mod tools exist. If they actually listened to the feedback back in the day (and/or actually implemented the New UI they started but never finished), most of the people who use those things probably wouldn't find them necessary.

But it's too late for that now. UI improvements would likely require too much dev time and would compromise the release of new content. I wish I could time warp back to when we had the test server, got more people to try it and convince SE se to have kept working on it.

Anyway, that's enough rambling from me. I probably overreacted and I'm sorry for that.

[Mike]

how do u even chat in chinese anyways? not sure u can type chinese alphabet in FF11... :?

Mostly with pinyin.

[Stompa]

Although FFXI is a computer game, and relies on modern technology, it is still fundamentally a *game*, no different to classic ancient games such as chess or card games.

When a person agrees to play a game, they are accepting a challenge, and they are accepting the rules of the game.

If a person is not playing by the rules of a game, they are not actually playing the game at all, merely cheating.

FFXI has strict game rules, and this is one of the reasons why FFXI is a Classic Game.

Among FFXI's strict game rules, are rules against "third party software" and the buying / selling of in-game currency, Gil.

If a person is using *any* third party software, or buying / selling *any* Gil, that person is no longer playing the FFXI game by the game's strict rules, and imho they are no longer playing FFXI at all, but rather they are playing a desecrated and defiled and insulting parody of the magnificent game called FFXI.

When the FFXI Team does not have time or resources to Police the violations of game rules, specifically use of third party software, buying / selling Gil, etc. it must fall on players themselves to clean up the game, at least to the best possible extent.

If no players bought Gil, if no players used third party software, then those problems would not exist.

As an individual, you can contribute to cleaning up the game, by strictly playing by the game's rules. Don't use third party software, and don't buy Gil. Encourage other players, especially new players, to do the same.

By simply taking this stance, on an individual level, of playing the game by the actual rules of the game, you just made the world a better place.
:cool:

[Alhanelem]

FFXI has strict game rules, and this is one of the reasons why FFXI is a Classic Game.

Among FFXI's strict game rules, are rules against "third party software" and the buying / selling of in-game currency, Gil.While I would agree with the notion that FFXI is "classic", it isn't classic by virtue of having rules.


--Disclaimer, I know you were more focused on the RMT issue, but since you mentioned rules in a general sense, I feel like the content of this post still applies. --



Also, its important to remember that the spirit of the rule is generally more important than the letter. The spirit of the rules on third party tools and programs is that in a multiplayer environment, certain things that can potentially be done with outside intervention may give players an unfair advantage. Note that the word "may" is important there. I believe SE doesn't really want to keep people from playing the game purely because of the rules, and this is why they are unlikely to act on things like making UI elements easier to read, or other accessibility/QoL type improvements.

Inflexibly forcing the rules by letter only serves no one. When an apparent violation of a rule (any rule) is apparent, the proper course is to analyze the situation and determine if following the letter of the rule seems appropriate, or if no actual harm is being caused and the spirit of the rule is being adhered to.

In much fewer words, there's a difference between people *actually cheating* and people with good intentions trying to ensure a good experience for themselves and the others that my interact with them.

And in short: I don't feel that following the rules strictly to the letter makes the world a better place. The world and everything in it exists on a spectrum, not in black and white.

And I resent the implication that me using an overlay to make the HP bars bigger so I can see them clearly with my less than stellar vision, would be "cheating." This wouldn't so I can have an advantage, this would be just so I can play the game.

Note that FFXIV has a multitude of interface options and adjustments available so that this can be achieved without external tools. I find it highly unlikely that SE is going to punish something like this. Accessibility is important and something that the original FFXI team apparently never planned for.