Petition to shorten time lock quest for GEO / RUN Relics.

[dmuller30]

I can't believe this hasn't been changed. It takes 6 months for a player to get legendary rank in all coalitions! Why hasn't this been changed. This highly discourages many new and returning players who start fresh accounts to avoid such amazing jobs. My husband who recently started in this game as a new player was completely shocked that his GEO weapon is locked behind a 6 month time lock, and is now considering another job because this time lock. Maybe with enough signatures it could be changed in a patch.


----Signed---

[Pixela]

I've done this and it's not that bad, you just do a few quests every day.

New players can't do the other requirements in under 6 months anyway.

[Alhanelem]

The thing is, a resourceful player can complete RME weapons in far less time- the minimum time to complete a relic assuming infinite money is a matter of weeks, not months.

[Sirmarki]

No thanks. There are many other things to work on as a new player while you go along the path of GEO / RUN Idris etc.
This is a MMO, not a place for instant gratification.

[Alhanelem]

No thanks. There are many other things to work on as a new player while you go along the path of GEO / RUN Idris etc.
This is a MMO, not a place for instant gratification.
It's not about instant gratificaiton and entitlement, it's about balance. We have weapons of comparable tiers that take significantly different time investments. Similar quality things should generally take similar amounts of effort.

[Sirmarki]

We have weapons of comparable tiers that take significantly different time investments.

Such as???

[Lockhart]

I would prefer things to stay the same. Reason being because I just personally like the way it is. Just throwing my vote out there in the event this gets looked at.

[Cdryik]

No thanks. There are many other things to work on as a new player while you go along the path of GEO / RUN Idris etc.
This is a MMO, not a place for instant gratification.

For a player that start at a Geo (i Came back 2 years ago playing my first 99 to Geomancer), the wait time was killing me as often players ask for a REMA DD / Idris Geo, except for CP pty..., i didn't stayed up 6 month into game because, i get bored, i often make a break for 1 month or two, it would take me then 1 years of waiting.

While... in the meantime, lucky players can get it in 1 day thanks to Bonanza...

Any others REMA weapon can be done in a month or less, just Idris and the RUN one is having hard time on it.

[Alhanelem]

Such as???
Such as the ones named in the OP? I mean, what rock are you living under? You're right there, ready to proclaim people demanding instant gratification and you don't even know what they're talking about?

Let's compare the RUN/GEO weapons to relic weapons.
The audolin job weaopns have a built-in ~6 month minimum time (for return of imprimaturs to level up in each coalition) After this, it's more dependent on how much gil you have or how long it takes you to gather items and stuff- which of course you can do while you're doing the other stuff, but that's also true of the other weapon types.

The relic weapon lines used to have a built-in minimum wait of a week+ a few days to turn in the various stages of the base weapon. It has since been reduced to one day + 2 hours + 1 hour. You then have to do a bunch of magian trials, but you can complete these as fast as you can kill stuff. Maybe a few more days there depending on how long you can game nonstop. Everything else can be done as fast as you can collect or buy the items. (I spent the better part of 10 years on my relic staff, but that was because I couldn't get currency from my dynamis group and it was in short supply outside o f dynamis groups, and then I sat on it for a while not working on it)


The mythic weapons are more time consuming than relics, but it is less about hard wait times and more about how long it takes to do all the things involved. Completion of Rhapsodies also makes it faster (for assault completion).


If the relic weapons could have their minimum wait times reduced, when they were already shorter than that of the audolin weapons, I see no reason we shouldn't adjust the minimum time requirements for their construction. The only reason I can imagine this hasn't happened is because doing something like changing the imprimatur time affects people who aren't doing the weapons as well.

[Lockhart]

I understand people say REMA and like to talk about them all as equals, but they are not. There is a substantial difference between any relic weapon and an ergon Weapon. I would say ergon weapons are on there own.

[Sirmarki]

Such as the ones named in the OP? I mean, what rock are you living under? You're right there, ready to proclaim people demanding instant gratification and you don't even know what they're talking about?

No, it has gone way over your head.


Let's compare the RUN/GEO weapons to relic weapons.

The question is what relic weapon is comparable to an Idris?

My point is the same as Lockhart's:


I understand people say REMA and like to talk about them all as equals, but they are not. There is a substantial difference between any relic weapon and an ergon Weapon. I would say ergon weapons are on there own.

[Cdryik]

Out of comparison, Idris is mandatory (not from the game itself but from people that want a geo in their group) to find a group for high content.
The power behind this weapon is well know.
But as REMA their power are powerfull still in comparison of general weapons, and yet, it take less longer to achieve.

[Alhanelem]

No, it has gone way over your head.



The question is what relic weapon is comparable to an Idris?

My point is the same as Lockhart's:
The question is we're not talking about stats, we're talking about all of the big time investment weapons, and I don't really know that the two audolin weapons are that far and above any of the RMEA weapons. While I personally follow a different path for SMN, most SMNs would describe nirvana to be as essential to their job as Idris, same with the BRD instruments and PLD shields especially.

How much more powerful idris is, is kind of irrelevant. One of the RMEAs is basically the best thing for all 22 jobs. I don't think any one job's absolute best thing should take dramatically longer than any other job's absolute best thing.

And if you play GEO, if you you don't have the weapon, nobody really wants you unless they cant find someone who has one. So we're basically talking a minimum 6 months of not playing the job you want to play because everyone requires you to have an item that takes that long to get. How is that fair and balanced vs all other jobs can be ready for primetime in far less time?

And as previously noted, the non-ergons have had many time investment reductions in recent years. Part of the problem with the ergons is even if they want to nerf the time required, how are they going to do it without a total revamp? It depends on systems they can't simply change without upsetting the balance for other things as well. The only way I can think of would be instead of "max out all coalitions" make it "get them some part of the way." It sounds dumb but I don't know what else they'd do lol.

[Zuidar]

It is annoying for those who do not have legend rank in all Coalitions that have to wait 6 months for that. The shovel Cordons only shave off 30-90 minutes off the recharge rate of imprimaturs which isn't enough.

this came in 2015 november
Since we just adjusted the amount of Bayld players can obtain, we have no plans to increase the rate at which Imprimaturs are refreshed.

Really disappointed in this response above.

then in april 2016
Greetings,

We're still looking into making adjustments to make it easier to increase Coalition ranks. However, we are planning to make this completely separate from the bonuses gained through Rhapsodies key items. I'll make a follow-up again once there is more information from the development team.

I would of hoped for changes along those lines for those who want need to get legend rank in all coalitions , however it's far too late now as they most likely abandoned such ideas years ago. It really is unfortunate

[svengalis]

These weapons aren't needed to clear content. You do realize this is an mmo right?

[Sirmarki]

And if you play GEO, if you you don't have the weapon, nobody really wants you unless they cant find someone who has one. So we're basically talking a minimum 6 months of not playing the job you want to play because everyone requires you to have an item that takes that long to get. How is that fair and balanced vs all other jobs can be ready for primetime in far less time?

Elite pick-up groups, maybe so. However, you yourself repeatedly stress that getting to know people and joining Linkshells is the way to go, so it shouldn't really be a problem, as generally there isn't the pressure on you to perform as well as opposed to PUG's requesting the best of the best.

There are many other things to work on, while you work towards an Idris. It is one of the best end game items out there.

[Alhanelem]

Elite pick-up groups, maybe so. However, you yourself repeatedly stress that getting to know people and joining Linkshells is the way to go, so it shouldn't really be a problem, as generally there isn't the pressure on you to perform as well as opposed to PUG's requesting the best of the best.

There are many other things to work on, while you work towards an Idris. It is one of the best end game items out there.
In the case of GEO, it's almost the only end game item out there. Yes, I'm well aware I can do other things at the same time. It is still disporportionately difficult (well, more accurately, disporportionately time consuming) for GEO to fully gear vs other jobs.

I mean have you been taking lessons from me of the past or something, just disagreeing with stuff for the apparent sake of doing so?

The only argument against this that's in any way valid is it would make previous owners of an idris resentful that they had to spend more time on it. That's literally the only downside of adjustments. And while I've been down that road myself a few times, I really doubt in this case that many would mind. And again, every other endgame weapon line has had its required time investment nerfed over the years- originally relics took probably longer even in the best of cases. And Mythics? lolPandemonium Warden being needed to complete all the trials. It's not hard now, but back then?

[Beastorizer]

The irony is mmo are now trending towards instant gratification lol...
So the OP is justified in inquiring.

[Sirmarki]

The irony is mmo are now trending towards instant gratification lol...
So the OP is justified in inquiring.

That may well be the case for modern MMO's with vast numbers of people in them. Instant gratification normally results in boredom, and more chances of people quitting once they hit the 'I beat the game' thing.

It wouldn't work in FFXI. FFXI has never been that type of game, which is what sets it apart from the rest.

[Alhanelem]

The irony is mmo are now trending towards instant gratification lol...
So the OP is justified in inquiring.

Again, no one is proposing anything like that. There's a huge difference between "balance the time investment" and "instant gratification."

[Lockhart]

Again, no one is proposing anything like that. There's a huge difference between "balance the time investment" and "instant gratification."

I always spend like 10 minutes writing up responses to what your saying, then delete it because I don't want to invest too much time in this discussion and I don't want you to feel like I am trying to argue with you. I don't think your talking about an average player. I'm just saying at 20 hours a week of working on only equipment, its going to take more then 6 months to get everything. Coalitions take a couple hours a week. I don't think the balance of time invested is off. Remember Ergon weapons don't have trials, and the hardest part i remember for them was getting plasm. Just remember how hard alex, ichor, tokens, zeni NM's (multiple times) including PW {I dont think average players buy this stuff unless they are farming their butts off (which counts as time invested)} Of course, I could be below average and off base.

[Alhanelem]

I always spend like 10 minutes writing up responses to what your saying, then delete it because I don't want to invest too much time in this discussion and I don't want you to feel like I am trying to argue with you. I don't think your talking about an average player. I'm just saying at 20 hours a week of working on only equipment, its going to take more then 6 months to get everything. Coalitions take a couple hours a week. I don't think the balance of time invested is off. Remember Ergon weapons don't have trials, and the hardest part i remember for them was getting plasm. Just remember how hard alex, ichor, tokens, zeni NM's (multiple times) including PW {I dont think average players buy this stuff unless they are farming their butts off (which counts as time invested)} Of course, I could be below average and off base.
The magian trials, final one excluded, really don't take all that long. And the time for completion of the final one more or less is directly correlated to your income. Yes, it's a handful of hours each week for the coalition assignments. But it's not the actual time it takes to do them, it's the forced wait times between them. You bring up the the difference in how ardorous the task is, but even if you want to argue that the non-ergons have more physical player effort involved, the point is these ardorous tasks can be completed in far less time because there are few forced wait times- and all of the forced wait times that did exist were nerfed over time.

And that's exactly what they should do here- not nerf the work itself, but the amount of forced wait time where you CAN"T do any of the work.