Skillchains

[Laciante]

I know they've been deemed too inefficient to use for quite some time, and I understand the math behind it.
However, I long for the days of old, where you get into party and after the pleasantries you set up a skillchain and burst pattern. It's one of the things that got me hooked, that cooperative party dynamic which really set FFXI apart when I was beginning.

Unfortunately, unless SC are significantly better than TPburning, we of course will never see such dynamics again.
I haven't seen any other topics discussing possible fixes, so let's start here?

As a start, marginal TP (over the 100/200 mark) should improve the WS either as the difference in TPmod between 100~200~300, or as bonus effect tacked on. This way TP gained waiting on your friend is not "wasted".
Second, WS dmg should perhaps start at double combined WS dmg and go from there, improving w/ higher SC tiers and WS count.
As for MB, I'm not much of a mage, so I'm not sure as to that particular.

[Tamarsamar]

Er, dude? Your "start" is already in the game: TP over a 100% threshold proportionately improves the WS by a percentage of the difference made by the next 100%. As a very basic example, take the Weapon Skill Seraph Strike. "Deals Light elemental damage to the enemy. Damage varies with TP." At precisely 100% TP, the Weapon Skill gives a x1.00 multiplier to your damage; at the 200% threshold it's x2.00, and at 300% it's x3.00. If you used Seraph Strike with 117% TP, however, the damage multiplier will scale up 17% of the additional damage provided at the 200% threshold, resulting in a damage multiplier of x1.17.

In a slightly more complicated example, take the Weapon Skill Seraph Blade (seraphs make excellent teachers on TP modifiers, apparently). It has the same description as Seraph Strike (Deals Light elemental damage to enemy. Damage varies with TP.), but it has one difference: at its 200% TP threshold, its damage multiplier is x2.50. This means that is you used Seraph Blade with 136% TP, your damage multiplier, as scaled proportionately to the 200% threshold, will be x1.54. However, since the 300% TP threshold is still a x3.00 multiplier, using Seraph Blade with 244% TP will result only in a multiplier of x2.72. The important implication here is that, point for point, Seraph Blade is at peak damage efficiency at 200% TP, whereas Seraph Strike is equally efficient whenever used.

Unfortunately, those two Weapon Skills are in the minority by a huge margin, as most Weapon Skills are most efficient for damage when done at 100% TP. This will apply to all Weapon Skills without "Damage varies with TP." with almost certainty, but even some Weapon Skills with "Damage varies with TP" are still most efficient when used at 100% TP, a particularly infamous example being the old level 71 Quested Weapon Skills, which were infamous for doing plenty of damage, if you bothered to wait to 300% TP to unleash them . . . but unfortunately, Savage Blade (as a typical example) was nonetheless most efficient at 100% TP anyway. "Delivers a twofold attack. Damage varies with TP." Its damage multipliers at the 100%, 200%, and 300% TP thresholds respectively are x1.00, x1.50, and x3.50 . . . but what you have to remember is that this multiplier only applies to the first hit of a Weapon Skill, all subsequent hits always being given a x1.00 damage multiplier no matter how much TP you have. So, assuming an ideal situation of all hits landing (and you do want all hits to land), you're looking at an effective x2.00, x2.50, and x4.50 damage multipliers for each threshold.

As a more cut-and-dry example, Steel Cyclone's damage multipliers were x1.50, x1.75, and x3.00 for each threshold, again, giving large returns at 300% TP, but not large enough to out-do the nonetheless underwhelming 100% version of the weapon skill three times. (One of the few of those Weapon Skills that were actually considered worthwhile was Evisceration, which instead of giving a damage multiplier at all, was a five-hit attack with a chance for a critical hit on each swing, which you don't normally get on all weapon skills.)

For your "second" point, all you're suggesting is to give a straight buff to an already-existing system. As it stands right now, yes, Skillchains do deal progressively more and more damage during each subsequent "link" in the chain; the problem (unless you're dealing with a handful of Samurai) is bothering to coordinate that many compatible Weapon Skills, which may not be the optimal Skill to perform for damage, and it usually requires waiting beyond that 100% TP threshold that most Weapon Skills are most efficient at. To be blunt, it's too much effort for too little reward, or, in the worst-case scenario, less damage than you would have accomplished just by spamming solo Weapon Skills (when the Skillchain's free additional damage fails to make up for whatever damage that may have been sacrificed in the meantime). (And even with a handful of Samurai, you're walking on eggshells; one false move and you can screw yourself out of a lot of potential damage.)

The way Skillchains work right now is that they deal a certain percentage of the damage of the Weapon Skill that caused them, this percentage increasing depending on what number link in the chain it is, and capping after the 6th link in the chain. If the Skillchain was Tier I, it will add 50% of the 2nd Weapon Skill's damage after the 2nd Weapon Skill, and if a subsequent Weapon Skill also results in a Tier I link, the Skillchain will deal an additional 10% of its respective Weapon Skill's damage, capping at 90% of the damage of a 6th+ Skillchain link resulting in a Tier I.

For Tier II Skillchains, the damage added after the 2nd Weapon Skill is 60% of its damage. If the 3rd link of a Skillchain results in a Tier II Skillchain, that Skillchain will deal 75% of the third Weapon Skill's damage. If a subsequent link results in a Tier II Skillchain, it will deal an additional 25% of its respective Weapon Skill's damage, capping at 150% of the damage of a 6th+ Skillchain link resulting in a Tier II.

If the 2nd Weapon Skill results in a Tier III Skillchain right off the bat, that Skillchain will deal 100% of the 2nd Weapon Skill's damage. If the 3rd link results in a Tier III, that Skillchain will deal 150% of the 3rd Weapon Skill's damage. If a subsequent link results in a Tier III, that Skillchain will deal an additional 25% of its respective Weapon Skill's damage for each subsequent link of the chain, capping at 225% of the damage of the 6th+ Skillchain link resulting in a Tier III.

Concerning your point on Magic Bursts, yes, even those already get more powerful the longer the Skillchain is. The bonus on Magic damage for bursting on a 2nd-link Skillchain is 30%, increasing by an additional 5% for each step later in the Skillchain that is Bursted on (presumably also capping after the 6th+ link, but this is uncertain).

Finally, concerning your complaints about the death of SC+MB and the rise of TP burns . . . hello, 2007! Meanwhile, back here in 2011, with the advent of Abyssea, we basically have an everything-burn that can give very large amounts of exp in relatively short amounts of time, to the point where exp becomes irrelevant all together for many players! If anything, the most popular "specific" burn nowadays seems to be the Fell Cleave burn, and even that is because it can be tooled for specific purposes.

----

tl;dr: What you're suggesting is already in the game.

[Laciante]

I didn't know they had changed (?) it that between the 100TP marks efficiency scaled, as far as I knew it didn't happen.
I understand how SC works, and that it is damage inefficient as it stands (because compatible WS are not often the best WS). That's why I suggested calculation of SC dmg from both WS (so opening with a high dmg skill is not a sin) and starting tiers from 100% (so that even doing Scission doubles dmg)
I know how old the death of SCMB is, and I endure mindless TPburning like the rest of us... I'm not sure how that's relevant though...

What I was suggesting was only the bare-minimum of what I expect from any SC improvements, if they exist already then that's great, lets continue.
I -did- say let's start here, and discuss... I'm not sure what can be done to bring back a signature of the game's battle mechanic, but I figured I'd at least start a thread.

[Camate]

We’ve got some tidbits regarding some future updates to skillchains and magic bursts I’m sure you’ll find interesting.

As a future direction for skillchains, instead of adjusting them to be a simple source of damage, we’re planning to implement adjustments that will allow for more strategic usage options.

I think it goes without saying that the current battle style has changed drastically since the time when skillchains were first introduced. As a result of this, skillchains have become nigh unsuitable as a means for dealing massive damage and often occur now as an unintended accident. With that in mind we made sure to avoid “upgrading” skillchains so much that they became required to earn exp.

For this reason, we’re looking into reducing an enemy’s elemental resistance corresponding to the element of the skillchain used for the duration of the magic burst window. This change will make skillchains more versatile and usable during battles with notorious monsters.

Below is a basic overview:


Example 1: When executing a transfixion skillchain
Transfixion is a light-elemental based, so the monster’s resistance to spells related to light is lowered.

Example 2: When executing a light skillchain
Light is fire/wind/thunder/light-elemental based, so the monster’s resistance to spells related to fire, wind, thunder, and light are lowered.

[Karbuncle]

Awesome idea ;O!

Might i make a Suggestion? Instead of lowering Resistance ( I assume this just means Magic Evasion ) why not also lower Its Magic Defense to that? so Subsequent Magic attacks of said element Hit harder, as well as more accurate.

Maybe lower its Magic EVA/DEF a significant amount, ~10% wouldn't be enough, maybe 20%? So say instead of a nuke doing 1k, it would do 1.2k after the Skillchain?

So that way even, Magic Bursts would also land much harder!

Would also be nice if you could find a way for Skillchains to Temporarily (15sec?, During MB Phase only?) remove Immunites/Abosrbtions. I.E doing a Wind Skillchain on Amhuluk would actually make it to where Wind-Based Debuffs have a chance to land. (Cause right now Earth Threnody (?) can't land on Amhuluk for yellow "!!" Since he's Immune to wind.)

Example: Player Does Detonation Skillchain (Wind) on Amhuluk, During "Magic Burst" Window, Immunities/Absorbtions/Resistance are Null. Meaning Amhuluk who's usually Immune to Wind based Debuffs like Earth Threnody(?) Can now be afflicted with Earth Threnody, allowing for Grellow Weakness to be triggered if it is so that spell.

Example2: Mob is Resistant to Ice. Player X does Dark Skillchain, BLM's can nuke Ice for Stronger-Unresisted Nukes on said NM since Resistance/Immunities/Etc are Annulled During Magic-Burst "Window"?

This would add a huge advantage to Skillchains.

I HOEP YEW LIEK

[Tanag]

I'm not sure this is the best fix. Skillchains shouldn't be entirely about magic bursts. Even in the past if a party didn't have a BLM we would still SC, because the added damage was beneficial. It seems a bit silly to make SCs rely on MB to become useful again.
Not every group has BLMs. Though they are admittedly more common since they are needed for grellow, they shouldn't be required to make a battle mechanic useful.

Why not boost SC damage as well? Or maybe give them additional status effects like FFXIV does?

[scaevola]

Lowering elemental resistance does not seem to be the best way to go about this, honestly. I'm unsure of the intent over the straight damage buff it is currently; is this intended to help make debuffs stickier? It seems a little pointless to have a mechanic to reduce resistance to debuffs if taking advantage of it means you have to wait for that mechanic to begin with.

This would also make Darkness chains dramatically better than Light (blind/para/slow), though I'm not sure that matters if nobody's doing them anyway.

[xbobx]

I think skillchains should apply a high version of an enfeeble. So if you do a light skillchain, it applies a dia 4 type affect. Fire a burn affect. Wind silence, Ice paralyze etc etc.

[Airget]

nah it would be to powerful if you just allowed them to enfeeble a mob by making a skillchain. If you did that then SAM's would have the potential to land any enfeeble on a mob through their ability to create a lv 3 SC.
What could work though in terms of enfeebles is when a SC is created, an enfeeble that may sometimes be resistant to the mob will land regardless of it's elemental alignment. It would defiantly help with cases in abyssea where you can't land certain magic weaknesses because the mosnter can resist the enfeeble and create another strategic use for SC in general.

[Jski]

I do hope they bring back the old days of setting up Skillchains i love this game for that alone the max team work that you got to have to pull it off just right!

[Invader]

I do hope they bring back the old days of setting up Skillchains i love this game for that alone the max team work that you got to have to pull it off just right!
Or a SAM >.>;b

[Kari]

Make skillchains actually do damage.
Pulling off a Darkness isn't worth it for 400 extra damage when I can pull off two worthwhile skillchains for 3k+ each.

[Septimus]

We’ve got some tidbits regarding some future updates to skillchains and magic bursts I’m sure you’ll find interesting.

As a future direction for skillchains, instead of adjusting them to be a simple source of damage, we’re planning to implement adjustments that will allow for more strategic usage options.

I think it goes without saying that the current battle style has changed drastically since the time when skillchains were first introduced. As a result of this, skillchains have become nigh unsuitable as a means for dealing massive damage and often occur now as an unintended accident. With that in mind we made sure to avoid “upgrading” skillchains so much that they became required to earn exp.

For this reason, we’re looking into reducing an enemy’s elemental resistance corresponding to the element of the skillchain used for the duration of the magic burst window. This change will make skillchains more versatile and usable during battles with notorious monsters.

Below is a basic overview:
Example 1: When executing a transfixion skillchain
Transfixion is a light-elemental based, so the monster’s resistance to spells related to light is lowered.

Example 2: When executing a light skillchain
Light is fire/wind/thunder/light-elemental based, so the monster’s resistance to spells related to fire, wind, thunder, and light are lowered.

Skillchains already increase the magic accuracy for spells of the elements of the skillchain, the elemental resistance reduction will have to be absolutely huge before anyone even thought to pay any attention to them. Instead of just having the resistance reduction (alliterations are amusing) last during the skillchain window, maybe have the effect last for a minute or so after the skillchain so that there is more of a purpose to the bonus. Maybe throw in some other bonuses like severely limiting a mob's TP gain after a skillchain; 20% for level 1, 35% for level 2, and 50% for level 3.

Skillchains are supposed to be one of the hallmarks of this game, making them just a smidge on the overpowered side would definitely not be a terrible thing.

[Kuvo]

I also miss the way of the old SC. I think they are on the right track but instead of just adding elemental down affects they really need to increase the amount of damage the SC actually does too. The MB was always a fun way for me (rdm and blm main jobs) to really have fun in a pty rather then just watch melee jobs communicate and own mobs with SCs.

[Teakwood]

This is probably the first time I've been dissapointed by a dev team response since the forums have opened. (Which, one has to admit, is a pretty good track record.) Leveling BLM to 75 in the "good" old days (good means terrible), the only thing that kept me focused on party play at all was coordinating the melees in the party, actually choosing a job to invite based on what skillchains could be made, and then magic bursting off of a skillchain and doing half the monster's health. When I got into endgame and the same story played out against sky gods, it kept me into the game even after BLM got shafted from ToAU (I hate soloing, effectively).

I wound up leveling Samurai as my first melee, although I never hit 75 with it, precisely because I loved coordinating my attacks with my party members' to form chains - I basically -still- fistpump a little bit every time I hear the delicious 'whoosh' of a Fusion chain. It's the crystallisation of the game's entire approach to battling - time your attacks, collaborate with your fellow party members, in order to perform something you couldn't do alone. (Let's pretend for the moment that you're not a Blue Mage, although the ability to self-renkei and then burst off of it is definitely one thing that drew me to the job.)

I've had my fingers crossed for a boost to skillchains in some fashion, and I've sighed a little every time one hasn't been forthcoming. There have been items and traits that boost SC damage and boost magic damage on a burst, yes, but the community will need a definite sign saying "you should use skillchains!" in order to break out of the TP-spam mentality of colibri burns and the ToAU era. There's really no reason, as has been mentioned, to use skillchains right now.

The correct answer to this is not to give up on skillchains and bursts as elements of the battle system! While I understand that certain suggestions (adding debuffs to skillchains, for example) would be brokenly powerful, and I appreciate the design difficulty of coming up with a solution that wouldn't force skillchain+burst use as the /only/ method of effectively fighting something (although this is, admittedly, the only part of sky god fighting I actually miss), and that also wouldn't cause the game to become much easier due to constant debilitating effects, I think this isn't enough.

Perhaps it could be made easier to successfully land a magic burst by extending the timing window after a SC lands? Even with the multifarious sources of fast cast currently given to Black Mage, it can be hard to land a burst on a SC even if you know it's coming if you're using a IV or V nuke. Additionally, perhaps after a magic burst has been successfully landed, it would -then- put a debuff on the mob corresponding to the magic burst. (For example, landing Blizzard V as a magic burst would, perhaps, paralyze the monster for a very short period of time, and then as an additional effect, cause the monster to become even weaker to Ice elemental attacks, extending the 'use' of the SC+MB past the brief period it was active.)

Essentially, you'd be boosting the effects of a successful magic burst in some way. This wouldn't unfairly advantage people who are able to spam TP moves (and really, who -can't-, given Abyssea at least?) to make many many skillchains, unless they had the spell power backing them up and working with them as a team to finish the collaboration. Moreover, it should be possible to balance this such that it is strong enough to encourage people to SC+MB on, say, moderately difficult NMs being low-manned, yet not so strong that it disadvantages parties with larger groups but somewhat less coordination.

Thanks for reading!

[kingfury]

For this reason, we’re looking into reducing an enemy’s elemental resistance corresponding to the element of the skillchain used for the duration of the magic burst window. This change will make skillchains more versatile and usable during battles with notorious monsters.

Below is a basic overview:


Example 1: When executing a transfixion skillchain
Transfixion is a light-elemental based, so the monster’s resistance to spells related to light is lowered.

Example 2: When executing a light skillchain
Light is fire/wind/thunder/light-elemental based, so the monster’s resistance to spells related to fire, wind, thunder, and light are lowered.
-------------------------
Sounds cool, and I'm sure Nuker's all around will most likely be singing praise once they see the burst numbers lol.

I wanted to put in a bit more feedback in regards to another aspect of this new adjustment though if I may. There are so many cool elemental weapon skills to be used (especially on WAR), yet their damage potential leaves much to be desired even inside Abyssea (unless you're only building +Elemental ws dmg Atmas which would be a huge trade off against other damage boosting Atmas). As soon as I read "lowers elemental resistance" I got all excited lol, but my shoulders soon drooped in disappointment as it seems only the mage-folk will see the spoils from this adjustment. My suggestion would be along the lines of this:

So to bring this adjustment to even greater use amongst as many party members as possible, how about allowing a short window of opportunity after a skillchain has been created for a Drastic damage increase when using the corresponding elemental weapon skill (like from the current 200+ dmg to upwards 1500+ dmg). This would happen independently of the skillchain > magic burst process, but would allow even greater cooperation and planning among the other non-caster party members to stack even greater damage numbers. Not to mention it would greatly utilize the tremendous proficiency most every DD has gained in the art of using elemental weapon skills in our months of Abyssea adventures lol.

The window of damage boosting opportunity would be just as slim as the magic burst window, further prompting party attention and focus on creating time sensitive damage throughout the life of the party like the days of old. Perhaps even allowing multiple elemental weapons skills to be chained together so long as they are timed, and executed close enough together. All while wonderful magic burst are exploding on top of the targets head! ^^

I think the direction would open party play once again like never before :D Thanks for taking feedback on this /salute

[MrButter]

Perhaps lowering relevant stats related to the SC's element, like Liquefaction reducing the target's STR

[Karbuncle]

Skillchain Damage is fine i think, They basically add 50% more Damage, or Double your damage when you do one, They're already a very powerful thing to have.

I think a great boost would be: (outside of my previous post)

Increase the window in which Skillchains can be performed. I think this'll help the "I don't wanna store TP for SC" thing. Increase the window for Skillchains to ~15 Seconds. This will allow more free-usage of Skillchains without people blowing WS-Phase DMG off by storing TP.

This would help a lot, Perhaps extend the "Magic Burst' window as well.

[Jski]

Or a SAM >.>;b

Well any job can /sam and get the same effect if not better.
I realy do hope they make skillchains have a use i lived for skilchaining in exp pts back in the day. I remember tricking mages who played like bots into MB with my good friends hehe! This should bring back some skill to this game and the non "omg hit the butte harder" type game play.

[Totema]

Aye, this a good idea. More incentives for setting up skillchains! Team synergy!

[Cream_Soda]

One thing to keep in mind is that players won't always get TP at the same rate, so the damage dealt by the MB is/SC is going to have to make up for the TP that is "lost" when someone has to hold it to wait for the other player to get their TP.

[Karbuncle]

One thing to keep in mind is that players won't always get TP at the same rate, so the damage dealt by the MB is/SC is going to have to make up for the TP that is "lost" when someone has to hold it to wait for the other player to get their TP.

Aye, This is why i suggested they increase the "Skillchain window" to about ~15 seconds. Definitely helps alleviate that problem a bit.

Maybe ~20. But the window is too small and as you pointed out, forces people to "Store TP", Generally Skillchain Damage won't make up for the Damage lost storing TP...

[Jalonis]

Solo skillchaining is still the only real TP efficient way to do skillchains.

[Soundwave]

I feel that this should of been happening during the time people were making serious attempts with the one that rhymes with Absolute Virture....

[Alhanelem]

I think the bonus applied for multi-weaponskill chains should be increased (e.g. when 3 or more WS are used in a skillchain.

That said- The resistance change is a subtle one but it makes sense and would certainly be a welcome improvement.

[Yinnyth]

The problem with skillchains goes much deeper than skillchains simply not producing much damage. Hell, skillchains can produce MASSIVE damage currently under the right circumstances, but those circumstances are so few and far between that the overbearing tactic is simply to burn TP everytime you hit 100 no matter what. The problems include:

1). At the higher levels of gameplay, TP gain is enormous. Double march, haste, SAM roll, and various pieces of store TP gear, and if you even attempt to coordinate a SC, everyone's TP will be capped at 300 long before they know the other players are paying attention and ready for the skillchain and magic burst. Proposed fix: Increase the maximum TP, force more powerful weaponskills to require a higher starting TP, and/or vastly increase the effect that higher TP has on weaponskills.

2). Skillchains are only as powerful as the weaponskill which closes the skillchain, which means it's really only worth doing a skillchain if you can close the skillchain with a powerful weaponskill. Powerful weaponskills are few and far between- there are always dominant WSs for each weapon which blow the other WSs out of the water in terms of damage. This puts ridiculous restrictions on your ability to create useful skillchains (except for extremely higher levels of gameplay where everyone in your party has an empyrean weapon which, for the most part, all have strong WSs that are really easy to SC with). When deciding on skillchains, the conversation usually turns to "Ok, this is our most powerful weaponskill, so we'll close with it, and you have to use a weak, gimpy weaponskill to open the skillchain." Eventually people just figured out they could all do more damage by using their most powerful weaponskills and ignoring skillchains. Proposed solution: Revisit all the underused weaponskills and make them more closely match the damage potential of that one weaponskill everyone with that weapon just tends to spam. Furthermore, add more higher level doppelganger weaponskills which are stronger than their lower level versions but keep the same skillchain properties. Wasp sting >> viper bite >> miasmic stab, for example.

3). Magic bursts are nearly worthless. First of all, unless the creature outright dies from the magic burst, you're building enormous hate on your most delicate party members. Second, the damage gained from setting up a magic burst is negligible, especially considering the amount of refresh that mages are capable of achieving now. It's simply better for everyone to spam all willy nilly. Proposed fix: Remove the "damage growth" from magic bursting on longer skillchains and set a fixed bonus to magic burst damage of 150%. Furthermore, reduce the enmity generated via magic burst damage.

4). Skillchains can be, and too frequently are resisted. That's ridiculous and there's really nothing the player can do to decrease the chances of their skillchain getting pwnt by random chance. Proposed fix: It's my opinion that skillchains-- and elemental weaponskills for that matter-- should have a magic accuracy based on the players skill with the weapon, and the attribute modifiers of the weaponskill. This means you could improve the magic accuracy of a skillchain ending in dancing edge by equipping more CHR equipment, and you could increase the magic accuracy of red lotus blade by increasing your sword skill or equipping more STR or INT gear.

5). Recent NMs are capable of absorbing damage at various periods of time, Glavoid being one of the worst skillchain killers. Not only does he simply absorb skillchain damage while he's casting, but he casts frequently and randomly, he increases the damage of anything he absorbs beyond its normal damage potential, he gains a stoneskin effect proportional to any healing he receives, and his Disgorge damage is supposedly increased by any absorbed damage. For these reasons, skillchains are a big taboo on Glavoid and many other NMs under most circumstances. Proposed fix: Make skillchain damage impossible to absorb except for special cases such as perhaps Shinryu.

Other thoughts:

-Add more tactical benefits to skillchains and magic bursts, such as adding newer, more powerful spells/JAs which can inflict devastatingly strong status effects but but have a 0% chance of working unless bursted on the appropriate skillchain (doom, terror, plague, mute, amnesia, stop, charm, curse, demi, stun II).

-Increase the potency of debuffs which land as a magic burst. For example, double the attribute penalty of elemental debuffs (burn, shock, etc) and absorb spells when they land as a magic burst.

-COSMIC ELUCIDATION

[KigenAngelios]

Seems like modeling skill-chains more like FFXIV is the way to go because like many have said it should not be all about the magic burst window. Why not have a tr ansfixion skillchain have added effects beyond damage, like transfix can give mobs a lower acc for 15-30secs (mimicing flash without using flash). If you can make skillchains more tacticly based like in 14 they may be used more in HNM situations.

Also can we get cosmic eludication now? =p

Also all jobs (or at the very least DNC) should have abilities to use 100% TP and conserve the rest on a WS like that one samurai ability.

[LeaderofAtlantis]

Here's my idea for making Skillchains more useful (and perhaps giving a reason for certain jobs that might not normally SC to get involved) - stat bonuses for SCs to those who are part of the SC. Now I know that sounds like it could get overpowered, but let me explain. Let's say you have a SAM and a THF working together since this is a combination I've used time and again in my very long FFXI life.

1) SAM uses Tachi: Enpi > THF uses Gust Slash (just an example, don't go ripping into the weak SC). This causes a Detonation skill chain to occur and, for say, 30 seconds, the SAM and THF gain a bonus to AGI. If the THF closes with Dancing Edge instead, this causes Distortion and both would receive a bonus to MND and INT. Doing Tachi: Kasha > Shark Bite would cause a Light SC and both would gain bonuses to STR, DEX, AGI, and CHR.

2) The bonus would scale upward with job levels, day of the week, weather, and TP. For job levels, the bonus would be stat +1 at Lv. 1-10, +2 at Lv.11-20, and so on. For Day of the week, if the day of the week aligns with your SC, the duration of the effect increases by 50% (so 45 seconds). For weather, it increases by 50% (combined with day it would mean the duration would be 60 seconds). For TP, for every 1% over 100% TP, the duration increases by 1%. So effectively, if you did a SC at 300% TP, the duration of the effect would be 1 minute and 30 seconds.

Now I know you're looking at that and thinking "couldn't that be abused big time?" You're right, it could be (especially by SAM mains and /SAMs) if there wasn't this catch - doing a new SC with an old effect still in place, will not overwrite the old effect, nor will the effects be accumulative. In other words, the best you could ever hope for the duration of an effect, assuming the right day, double weather, and 300% TP, would be 2 minutes and 15 seconds (all % increases based off the original 30 seconds).

3) SC off of a SC will cause the stat bonus to go up by +1 for a secondary Lv1 SC (Transfixion, Detonation, etc.), +2 for Lv2 (Distoration, Fragmentation, etc.) and +3 for a Lv3 SC (Light or Darkness). This effect IS cumulative, but once the duration of the initial effect is over, it all goes away.

I hope I've clarified this enough, but that's my idea for making SCs more appealing. Any questions on clarification, feel free to ask.

[Glamdring]

Don't go overboard tho', have the most recent skillchain Aftermath be the only one in effect. If you could just have 2 samurai Self SC light, then dark in the 1st 5 seconds of a fight the NM would have lowerred resistance to every element, and any semblance of balance goes right out the window.

[LeaderofAtlantis]

Don't go overboard tho', have the most recent skillchain Aftermath be the only one in effect. If you could just have 2 samurai Self SC light, then dark in the 1st 5 seconds of a fight the NM would have lowerred resistance to every element, and any semblance of balance goes right out the window.

The lowered resistance only lasts as long as the Magic Burst timer is in effect. I assume so that a Magic Burst can't be resisted at all.

[Mightyg]

1. Skillchain damage should not be resisted, It should be subject to a monsters overall magic mitigation, but it should not be reduced by an elemental resist.

2. Further weaponskills should not affect the windows in which a magic burst can be done. If two skillchains happen in rapid succession, both burst windows should be available.

3. The elemental damage from a skillchain should not be credited to the closing weaponskill user. Enmity free skillchains, Half Enmity Bursts. This would give incentive to skillchain/burst without causing additional damage.

4. Weaponskills effectiveness varies greatly, which reduces the incentive to skillchain. Increase damage of all weaponskills (elemental or otherwise) to relatively comparable levels, and reduce the effect of modifiers. Ideally any job should be able to use multiple weaponskills without sacrificing large amounts of damage in order to make a skillchain.

[Catsby]

A lot of really good points were brought up about skillchains that point out a lot of deeply seated problems in the game's fighting systems and UI;

-Players cant see each other's TP unless they use the unofficial windower and its plugin. This is silly since not being able to see a party member's TP is counter productive to the system's intent to be used tactically. The time spent using a macro or typing out your TP to coordinate a skillchain is effectively "lost TP" and time.

-Skillchain damage usually doesn't make up for the lost TP or time, moreso if aftermath effects are taken into account.

-Damaging weaponskills aren't balanced enough to warrant producing a skillchain.

-The difference between a weaponskill used at 100% TP and 200% TP is marginal both in damage and utility. Two weaponskills used at 100% will generally outperform a weaponskill used at 200%.

-There aren't enough utility weaponskills and the currently existing ones aren't potent enough to warrant using when you have the option to simply use TP to damage your opponent.

-Skillchains are a collaborative effort but results are driven almost entirely by the person closing it. A skillchain that opens with a 1 hit point damage weaponskill and closed with a 3000 hit point damage weaponskill will not be the same as a skillchain opened with a 3000 point hitter and closed with a 1 point hitter.

All these points will unfold into even more deeply seated problems if you explore them. Fixing everything is of course costly and a bandaid fix is probably the path the development will take. If it were me I would have the skillchain not only increase the effectness/accuracy of magic following but damage the monster's script. For example, if the monster is weak to darkness and the party puts together a darkness skillchain it may result in a spell or ability being locked on the monster. This could be expanded upon but I don't feel like being creative at the moment.

[Rambus]

We’ve got some tidbits regarding some future updates to skillchains and magic bursts I’m sure you’ll find interesting.

As a future direction for skillchains, instead of adjusting them to be a simple source of damage, we’re planning to implement adjustments that will allow for more strategic usage options.

I think it goes without saying that the current battle style has changed drastically since the time when skillchains were first introduced. As a result of this, skillchains have become nigh unsuitable as a means for dealing massive damage and often occur now as an unintended accident. With that in mind we made sure to avoid “upgrading” skillchains so much that they became required to earn exp.

For this reason, we’re looking into reducing an enemy’s elemental resistance corresponding to the element of the skillchain used for the duration of the magic burst window. This change will make skillchains more versatile and usable during battles with notorious monsters.

Below is a basic overview:


Example 1: When executing a transfixion skillchain
Transfixion is a light-elemental based, so the monster’s resistance to spells related to light is lowered.

Example 2: When executing a light skillchain
Light is fire/wind/thunder/light-elemental based, so the monster’s resistance to spells related to fire, wind, thunder, and light are lowered.

uh can you be more clear? in general BLMs accepted that MBs tend to be more " acurate" then non mb. In other words elemental resist is already lowered for mbs correct? are you talking about making the window longer? I am confused.

when we look at pre abyssea blms where not used for damage because mp damage was inefficient, so holding tp for SC made it more inefficient for damage. in abyssea you are ether oneshoting mobs on ws, or making blm only purpose for yellow as you let one dd do damage and tank.

my point is saying this manaic already exists. Also this change does not change the want of MBs or SCs. I SC with other people if the moment permits, but no one really cares. Tell the DEV not to waist their time with this please, other stuff needs more fixing then a maniac that will go unused for the most part.

[Teakwood]

By 'maniac' do you perhaps mean 'mechanic'?

[Randwolf]

when we look at pre abyssea blms where not used for damage because mp damage was inefficient, so holding tp for SC made it more inefficient for damage.
Are you talking pre-Abyssea back to the start of the game. MB's went away when DD's became over-powered. But, there used to be a time when MB'ing mobs was a faster way to get experience. Parties actually used to be created around what skill-chains the DD's could do so the BLM could MB. It used to control pt invites and handicapped some jobs. With the advent of the very powerful DD, BLM's then found themselves in that same boat.

[Trollinthedungeon]

Back in the day, it was neccesary for 2 DDs or the tank and a DD to SC for the BLM or exping was slow. I like them revamping SCs but whoever thinks they are worthless, tell that to my Masamune Samurai who can do 3-5k Light off it, including 5-6k Fudos x 2.

[Randwolf]

Back in the day, it was neccesary for 2 DDs or the tank and a DD to SC for the BLM or exping was slow. I like them revamping SCs but whoever thinks they are worthless, tell that to my Masamune Samurai who can do 3-5k Light off it, including 5-6k Fudos x 2.
I remember getting to light sc's and the WHM's begging to Holy MB off of it. Not like they needed more hate. But, it helped with the monotony of their jobs. Perhaps, BLM's will again find a little more interest in people giving them invites. However, I'm not sure how that will work with Abyssea since the exp is so easy as it is.

[Rambus]

Are you talking pre-Abyssea back to the start of the game. MB's went away when DD's became over-powered. But, there used to be a time when MB'ing mobs was a faster way to get experience. Parties actually used to be created around what skill-chains the DD's could do so the BLM could MB. It used to control pt invites and handicapped some jobs. With the advent of the very powerful DD, BLM's then found themselves in that same boat.

sorry past ATU- pre abyssea, point is even if contant is taking outside abyssea ATU mindset still sets it

point is I want to see this game fixed like menus or job balances before crap like this is looked into. I really do not care for it , SE tried a frew times to try get SCs back in play and failed. ( made sc damage less resisted)

leave it alone for now, other stuff needs more fixing

[Randwolf]

leave it alone for now, other stuff needs more fixing
Priority of what needs fixing probably depends on your primary job. I'm sure anyone who primarily plays BLM would see something like this as medium to high priority. I saw a lot of QQ'ing by BLM's when DD"s kept getting buff after buff.

[Rambus]

Priority of what needs fixing probably depends on your primary job. I'm sure anyone who primarily plays BLM would see something like this as medium to high priority. I saw a lot of QQ'ing by BLM's when DD"s kept getting buff after buff.

what the rep said ALREADY EXISTS though.

it is a waste of time.

fixing broke stuff > fixing stuff that is not broke

[Seriha]

Hmm...

I like the idea of breaking a mob's immunities with an SC. Obviously, Scission should be a more potent Earth reduction than than Gravitation (1/2 that) or Darkness (1/4), as it could be considered a utility exchange for potential damage. Put simply, a mob immune to Slow could be inflicted by it (100% if Scission induced, 1/2 or 1/4 otherwise) while maybe a neutral mob could get an even greater Slow effect landed.

Another idea, as others have stated, is tying some kind of debuff to the SC. Impaction could hamper enemy crit rate while Detonation fiddles with its evasion. So on and so forth. What could perhaps apply to both of this, in regards to imbalanced TP gain, is the amount of each TP used in each step of the WS could be documented and combined to further modify the overall potency of the effect.

Otherwise, mobs reacting differently to various SCs is kind of a no-brainer in concept. Undead should probably hate Transfixion/Fusion/Light, so it could mean further bonuses to damage or effects. Much like we have Abyssea's current weakness system, SCs could get an equivalent that'd boost a mob's drop rate or something beneficial.

Just keeping it limited to MACC seems kind of lame, though.

[Laciante]

it is a waste of time.

fixing broke stuff > fixing stuff that is not broke

I'm pretty sure the fact that we don't use SC regularly means it's broke... this isn't some minor feature of the game, it's what the battles were intended to revolve around.
Granted, the reason it broke is because other balancing issues have broken too

[Rambus]

Hmm...

I like the idea of breaking a mob's immunities with an SC. Obviously, Scission should be a more potent Earth reduction than than Gravitation (1/2 that) or Darkness (1/4), as it could be considered a utility exchange for potential damage. Put simply, a mob immune to Slow could be inflicted by it (100% if Scission induced, 1/2 or 1/4 otherwise) while maybe a neutral mob could get an even greater Slow effect landed.

Another idea, as others have stated, is tying some kind of debuff to the SC. Impaction could hamper enemy crit rate while Detonation fiddles with its evasion. So on and so forth. What could perhaps apply to both of this, in regards to imbalanced TP gain, is the amount of each TP used in each step of the WS could be documented and combined to further modify the overall potency of the effect.

Otherwise, mobs reacting differently to various SCs is kind of a no-brainer in concept. Undead should probably hate Transfixion/Fusion/Light, so it could mean further bonuses to damage or effects. Much like we have Abyssea's current weakness system, SCs could get an equivalent that'd boost a mob's drop rate or something beneficial.

Just keeping it limited to MACC seems kind of lame, though.

I like this, the macc already exists if they are saying it right, kinda what i ment with waste of time, trying to make more magic acc has no benfit.

[Randwolf]

what the rep said ALREADY EXISTS though.

it is a waste of time.

fixing broke stuff according to what I want > fixing stuff that is not broke for me
Fixed that for you.

[Xilk]

strategic use of skillchains sounds like alot of fun to me.... can we include bst strategically skillchain w/ pet on that?

:P ...