Skillchains and TP bonus traits

[Gotterdammerung]

I would like to see sam get a skill that makes it easier for them to chain. Possibly something like dancers wild flourish possibly. Or maybe just a new tier of chain like light+Darkness= New chain only available to sam.

Could also be neat if skill chains involving sams had a larger Magic burst window.


I would also like to see sam start to get TP bonus traits naturally.

[Mirage]

So you want Cosmic Elucidation?

[Laciante]

that's what it sounds like :D

[Gotterdammerung]

So you want Cosmic Elucidation?

well comsic elucidation is unknown property + unkown property = unknown property chain.

But yeh i suppose kinda. I mean Tenzen is supposed to be a higher tier of samurai. So in a way he is showing you wat epic samurai's can do.

We are 15 lvls ahed of 75 and in the end will be 24 lvls above 75. Would be nice to catch up to tenzen.

[Karbuncle]

Tenzen also has a Sword forged with the soul of the avatar Phoenix >.> We don't D:

Though, SAM can skillchain Nicely, Wondering what you're asking for. TP Bonus Job Traits seem... I don't know, I Can't imagine if you keep it low end it would be broken (nothing like +100%) ...

[Toren]

I certainly think the TP bonus trait would be nice although it would hurt Mythic/Relic Sam's since TP doesn't actually impact Kaiten/Rana damage, and I would mainly prefer SE give Samurai's more SC bonus traits since Samurai's specialty is Skillchains.

Asking for if or not we'd get a Tier 4 chain it more then likely wouldn't be available to Samurai if it required both Light and Darkness traits seeing both Relics and the Empryean Samurai has access to Weaponskills are Light for 3rd Tier traits. IF SE was to add a T4 SC for Samurai's I think it would be better in terms of actually pulling a extended chain of all elements that comprise Light and Darkness the complete chain of T2 SC's as such this order for example Gekko > Kasha Fusion > Rana Gravitation > Kaiten Fragmentation > Gekko 4th Tier SC here instead of Distortion, although keep in mind this would also take away the ability to chain T2's endlessly. this would also be for the work of 2 or more DD's or a Samurai's with Kaiten access only unless Samurai gets another Fragmentation trait WS.

Something else I would love to see is SE add or fix is TP bonus effecting aftermaths.

[Gotterdammerung]

pheonix isnt a samurai and has never had anything to do with samurai. I doubt anything tenzen does in his fight has much to do with pheonix.

[Karbuncle]

pheonix isnt a samurai and has never had anything to do with samurai. I doubt anything tenzen does in his fight has much to do with pheonix.

Except in the world of Final Fantasy I'm sure it does.

He Probably draws some power from Phoenix, Since as far as i can tell, he may be "75SAM" but he has tons more HP, attack, and Abilities than a 75SAM. Including Cosmic Elucidation.

Similar to the ways Summoner's draw power from their Avatars, He likely draws power from Phoenix. the way i understand it Phoenix chose to aid him to come to the Quon continent to investigate all the stuff in CoP, especially with Diabolos, so he probably is being aided in some way by Phoenix.

[Gotterdammerung]

I didnt say pheonix wasnt providing him any benefit at all. I just said pheonix has little to do with his Job abilities and Weapon skills. This is boiled down to a matter of opinion ultimately. I think his WS's with new names comes from the fact that hes a high ranking, high level samurai from a continent of samurai master people. And u think he gets the funny named WS's because a Fiery bird avatar is feeding him mojo.

I also dont see any reason why a tier 4 chain should be unobtainable.

The new Skillchain update coming is a good start in the direction of making skillchains more useful (thus making sam more useful) tho so im happy about that.

I would like to see more progress in this direction.

[Karbuncle]

I didnt say pheonix wasnt providing him any benefit at all. I just said pheonix has little to do with his Job abilities and Weapon skills. This is boiled down to a matter of opinion ultimately. I think his WS's with new names comes from the fact that hes a high ranking, high level samurai from a continent of samurai master people. And u think he gets the funny named WS's because a Fiery bird avatar is feeding him mojo.

I also dont see any reason why a tier 4 chain should be unobtainable.

The new Skillchain update coming is a good start in the direction of making skillchains more useful (thus making sam more useful) tho so im happy about that.

I would like to see more progress in this direction.

His Unique WS also might come from the fact he was Trained in Far Eastern Techniques, Most of us SAM were not.

Level 4 Skillchain just feels like it was meant to remain "Unique" to tenzen, As its purpose is AoE Damage, and Ejecting you from the battlefield/Knock-back.

Plus I'm not sure what to name a Light/Dark SC? Luminous? Twilight(NO)?

Cosmic Elucidation just wouldn't fit in SAMs department, How would you make it? You'd need a Relic Weaponskill with Light Properties, or Dark Properties, to go after a light/dark skillchain for it to make any sense.

I could see it working, Its just that realistically In order to combine light/dark, You'd have to do a Darkness(or light) Skillchain, then follow up with a WS who's properties are Light itself(or Dark). And the only WS's that are themselves (LIGHT) or (DARK) are Relic Weaponskills.

So while I'm saying its possible, Without a Light and or Dark WS you couldn't create a "Twilight" Skillchain. I hope I'm wording this right.

[Greatguardian]

I could see it working, Its just that realistically In order to combine light/dark, You'd have to do a Darkness(or light) Skillchain, then follow up with a WS who's properties are Light itself(or Dark). And the only WS's that are themselves (LIGHT) or (DARK) are Relic Weaponskills.

And Empyreans! Rana > Gekko > Fudo is a Darkness SC > Light WS combination, for what it's worth.

[Gotterdammerung]

Tenzen Schmenzen. Forget Tenzen he has nothing to do with it. We dont even know the properties of his Skillchain are. And as u said its a wierd WS that auto wins the fight. Im not asking for a Tenzen WS and i dont give a care about Tenzen. Cosmic Elucidation is not a T4 skillchain.


As for a higher Tier of skill chains. It could be Tier 3 + tier 2 WS making Tier 4. It could be a specific job ability applied to the end of a T3. It could be something only relic/emp users get to play with. Or its also possible that in the 9 lvls left Sam gets a natural GKT WS with a light or a drk property. And probably a buncha different ways i didnt think of.

[Greatguardian]

T1 + T1 = T2.

T1 + T2 = T2

T2 + T2 = T3

So, I would only assume it natural for it to follow that:

T2 + T3 = T3

and

T3 + T3 = T4

I don't see anything wrong with adding T4 SC. I think they'd be neat. Making them SAM-only is kinda junk though, and making them usable with T2 SC properties would make no sense at all. Regardless of the current shift away from multi-member Skillchains in 2011, there is no reason why they should not be made possible for non-SAM DDs.

[Malacite]

CE is every element. It'd be awesome to get as a possible level 99 Merit for SAM, but I just don't see it happening.

[Amoklauf]

I agree with the sentiment that SAM's should be able to SC more often and in different ways. A SC that no other job/non-GK-weapon could make would be one way of going, but that doesn't change the nature of/problems with SC's in general. There are two (and a half) things I don't like about skillchains
1) relying on others to do them consistently
1b) relying on others to not screw them up/interfere
2) relying on lucky multi-hit procs or a once-every-5-minutes job-ability to do them solo

I'll admit with high haste and a bit of regain it can happen regularly, but I don't play in that type of situation very often. Yesterday I had it happen a bunch of times on WAR/SAM doing Fragmentation RR>RR because of some Retaliation procs. It feels intuitively wrong that the WAR class has an easier time doing this than SAM (the supposed king of WS/SC). This also goes for DNC that has Wild Flourish and can reverse finishing moves into instant TP for more chances at self-sc's. Even BLU gets Chain Affinity every 2 minutes. I don't understand it.

I'd like to see something that would make (self) SC's more common and doesn't otherwise slow SAM's down (ie. having to use a bunch of JA's at 2 seconds each or holding TP for a long time).

There are countless ways to do that, but that's the general direction I'd like the job to go in. Stuff I've been considering:
Regain effect from WS that close a skillchain, increasing the likelyhood of self-SC's if you manage to open a fight with a skillchain.
That effect nobody cares about on AF1 body: Occasionally boosts TP when damaged. Give SAM a trait that's a much more potent version of this so they can self-SC and boost their damage output when tanking (at the cost of taking more damage this doesn't seem broken).
Way simpler ideas:
Something similar to Wild Flourish with a low cooldown.
JA that gives Save-TP+100 (different to Sekka in that you only need 100 TP to WS twice and TP bonus still counts).

I could go on, but nvm...

[Arbole]

What I'm more interested in is the way SE has calculated Fudo aftermath. Currently, aftermath bonus is determined by the base TP %. SE didn't take into consideration the effect of the enhanced Sekkanoki effect on Unkai Kote +1/2, which I'll assume everyone here knows what it does. When I sekk SC at 300 TP with Unkai Kote +2 on, I only get aftermath level 1 like I normally do. It'd be really nice in a samurai's particular case, or maybe in general, if a TP bonus applied to the aftermath calculation. With Unkai Kote +2, the first WS would count for 300 TP not only in damage, but would proct the lvl 3 aftermath, as well, should they change the coding around. SE, I hope you're reading...

[hiko]

What I'm more interested in is the way SE has calculated Fudo aftermath. Currently, aftermath bonus is determined by the base TP %. SE didn't take into consideration the effect of the enhanced Sekkanoki effect on Unkai Kote +1/2, which I'll assume everyone here knows what it does. When I sekk SC at 300 TP with Unkai Kote +2 on, I only get aftermath level 1 like I normally do. It'd be really nice in a samurai's particular case, or maybe in general, if a TP bonus applied to the aftermath calculation. With Unkai Kote +2, the first WS would count for 300 TP not only in damage, but would proct the lvl 3 aftermath, as well, should they change the coding around. SE, I hope you're reading...
not aggree on general TP bonus working, but the unkai/sekka combo would be nice

[Toren]

I agree with being able to get a L2 or L3 after off of using Meikyo Shisui or Sekkanoki w/ the Unkai +2 kotes at 200~300%.

[StingRay104]

Cosmic Elucidation is not a T4 skillchain.

Yes it is, it has always been refered as tier 4 skillchain. At same time I understand your point in wanting more outta sc and I agree completely, I too want more outta sc and T4 would be awesome its just all we have left is Light<>Dark to combine to make T4, but thats not hard to do observe, Rana > Gekko > Kaiten = T4 CE, cept that we don't get it. I for one would love to do CE or if they made it Tenzen specific then whatever T4 we in vana'diel would get but unfortunately our current sc's all suck too much to really trust SE to come thru with T4. What I've heard from the new sc update honestly makes doesn't give me more hope, decrease dmg but increases MB spells? OK, so now we gotta get timing down with the mages fulltime? I know many of you are gonna bring up, well when I was fighting this in my ls blah blah blah the end, ya I know I did that too, but if it doesn't prove necessary then most shells will just disregard, and xp pt's will completely diisregard, so in the end sam is just gettin nerfed. I know this is kinda a stretch jumpin from t4 sc to sc reboot comin up but I think I wanna see them actually do something right with sc before they attempt T4. Also perhaps they could make new t2's like combine different elements and get new t2's and make it possible for different combo's or something like that idk, it honestly won't matter to much, but I'm excited to see sam getting its first update since sekkanoki (no hamahona or whatever doesn't count cuz its completely worthless), shame it only took 4 updates since original.

[Ryozen]

Wall-of-text, so in the end sam is just gettin nerfed. More wall-of-text.
Holy Jesus. Did you even read the update notes?

RE: Cosmic Elucidation - Please show where Tenzen uses anything that resembles Tachi: Rana. I can't bring myself to address the rest of it right now, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't bother trying to understand any of it if I did.

Also, please learn to use your enter key.

[StingRay104]

Holy Jesus. Did you even read the update notes?

RE: Cosmic Elucidation - Please show where Tenzen uses anything that resembles Tachi: Rana. I can't bring myself to address the rest of it right now, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't bother trying to understand any of it if I did.

Also, please learn to use your enter key because I'm to stupid to read a full persons comment and have to just get the clip notes.

I could really question your IQ here.........so I will, if Light <> Dark = t4 which CE is then would not Rana > Gekko which makes Dark then to Kaiten which Gekko <> Kaiten makes Light so that means Rana > Gekko > Kaiten = T4 or CE? The answer is obvious to a good same, so where do you fall. Also since when does the enter key have anything to do with what this post was about. Finally from what I've read on the sc update they want to decrease the damage of sc's because, no one wants to use them and they tend to be the by product of random ws's, but in exchange for that they intend it to lower the opponents resistance to that element and thus increase the damage done by MB, which sam can't cast spells, unless you really want to play the wrong job, so it only helps out when people really have trouble sticking stuff, which is rare but the time does arise.

Just to make you happy I put your enter in there, but I do have a question for you, are you one of those bandwagon sams from the hasso/seigan era? Seriously? Any good sam should know their sc and see that I was setting up a T4 which as I mention and it has also been brought up earlier in this forum that CE is T4 and that is basically what OP wants and who can blame him it is awesome.

[Ryozen]

Since you so graciously asked:

I began playing this game at the PC release. What drew me to the game was the concept of skill-chaining. The cooperation between party members to produce something greater than the sum of the individual parts reminded me of Chrono Trigger to an extent, which was (and still remains) one of my favorite SquareSoft games.

When I hit level 30 on my first job, one of the first jobs I unlocked was Samurai. Since that day, SAM has remained my 'main job.'

I happily made parties, and as best I could with the players seeking, I invited other front-line jobs which could make skill chains with Samurai. I had my trusty Brady Guide at my side, and soon had memorized all of the major weapon skills for the typical jobs, and where they fell in relation to skillchains. The format of that skill-chain chart became so engrained in the way I thought about skill-chains that I could practically see it with my eyes closed, and when I came across new weapon skills that were not included on the chart, I penned them in rather than switching to Aden's amazing charts of the day.

I can clearly remember the day I hit level 30, and gleefully used Meditate the for the first time. It was a party in Garlaige Citadel on bats near the entrance. I was enjoying myself so much that I hit my trusty TP macro at each 20% interval for the first several uses of Meditate, much to the annoyance of the party I had at the time. But it was a bitter-sweet moment; while I had obtained the job ability that would help me accomplish the portion of the game I enjoyed so much, it was also the last job ability that was given to a Samurai at that point in the game.

SAM was the first job I took beyond 30 through all of the level caps, including Maat, eventually making it to level 75 well before Hasso and Seigan were introduced.

Thanks for asking.

Germane to the topic:
Cosmic Elucidation is a gimmick in a BC fight. But because Tenzen is a Samurai and uses other pseudo-skill-chains before Cosmic Elucidation, the rest of us should have access?

Zeid is a Dark Knight. Do you hear DRKs crying about not having Abyssal Strike because it's used in a BC? No.

Zazarg is a Monk. Do you hear MNKs crying about not getting Meteoric Impact, because it's something he uses in Besieged? No.

Shantotto is a Black Mage. In one of the mission BCs, she spams tier 1 elemental magic for 2000-3000 damage each. Are BLMs screaming about how they can't match up? No.

Do you see the similarity? Why do I bother asking this question? You're obviously going to continue bashing my I.Q. while talking about "clip notes" (whatever the hell those are) and pulling ridiculously incorrect ideas out of the job adjustments post which have no relation to what is actually written.

Please quote for me the section of dev1017 where it says anything -at all- about lowering skill-chain damage. Hint: You can't, it's not fucking there.

CliffsNotes: I'd bet I've been a Samurai longer than you have. Stop being an idiot.

[StingRay104]

First, we are talking about T4 sc's, not any of those other unique job ws's and if you really have been a sam like you've said you would know that the ability Cosmic Elucidation is a skillchain and we amoungst the sam community have always called it the only T4 sc. Second if you bothered to read stuff that didn't have [Dev????] then you would have caught that post about the devs thoughts on sc's where they said they were gonna lower the damage and increase the effects of mb. Third if sc's are your forte, then you wouldn't have missed the point I made that Dark <> Light would be T4 sc which as I previously mentioned was the main topic of this thread. So to round this up, who's being the idiot if they can't even follow the topic of the forum?

[Habiki]

I could really question your IQ here.........so I will, if Light <> Dark = t4 which CE is then would not Rana > Gekko which makes Dark then to Kaiten which Gekko <> Kaiten makes Light so that means Rana > Gekko > Kaiten = T4 or CE? The answer is obvious to a good same, so where do you fall. Also since when does the enter key have anything to do with what this post was about. Finally from what I've read on the sc update they want to decrease the damage of sc's because, no one wants to use them and they tend to be the by product of random ws's, but in exchange for that they intend it to lower the opponents resistance to that element and thus increase the damage done by MB, which sam can't cast spells, unless you really want to play the wrong job, so it only helps out when people really have trouble sticking stuff, which is rare but the time does arise.

Just to make you happy I put your enter in there, but I do have a question for you, are you one of those bandwagon sams from the hasso/seigan era? Seriously? Any good sam should know their sc and see that I was setting up a T4 which as I mention and it has also been brought up earlier in this forum that CE is T4 and that is basically what OP wants and who can blame him it is awesome.

Gekko to Kaiten is distortion not light, So rana>gekko>kaiten would not work for a T4.

[Ryozen]

His idea is that Rana>Gekko would produce a Darkness skill chain, which would then be closed by Kaiten, which has a primary Light element, supposedly producing Cosmic Elucidation.

It still doesn't matter, because despite what you and your cadre of imbeciles have considered it, Cosmic Elucidation is just a BC gimmick. No amount of wishing and pissing and moaning about it in what you consider the 'sam community' will change that. If they do decide to open up the realm of fourth-tier skill chains, I highly doubt they'll call it such.

As for reducing skill chain damage, please link me to the post where an official employee of Square-Enix references this. The only references I've seen to reducing skill chain damage have been from idiots, not anyone associated with SE.

And you're right about not reading every post on this forum. If it doesn't have a crown icon, I'm probably going to ignore it, because it's essentially guaranteed to be idiotic shit just like this.

Every once in a while I let myself get sucked in, though, and it usually ends with me trying to fix stupid. And then I give up once I come to the conclusion that it's futile.

Like now.

[hiko]

First, we are talking about T4 sc's, not any of those other unique job ws's and if you really have been a sam like you've said you would know that the ability Cosmic Elucidation is a skillchain and we amoungst the sam community have always called it the only T4 sc. Second if you bothered to read stuff that didn't have [Dev????] then you would have caught that post about the devs thoughts on sc's where they said they were gonna lower the damage and increase the effects of mb. Third if sc's are your forte, then you wouldn't have missed the point I made that Dark <> Light would be T4 sc which as I previously mentioned was the main topic of this thread. So to round this up, who's being the idiot if they can't even follow the topic of the forum?

people calling CE t4 doesn't mean it 's T4, it's a scpecial SC out of general chart that is only available with amatsu tuskikage,



His idea is that Rana>Gekko would produce a Darkness skill chain, which would then be closed by Kaiten, which has a primary Light element, supposedly producing Cosmic Elucidation.

It still doesn't matter, because despite what you and your cadre of imbeciles have considered it, Cosmic Elucidation is just a BC gimmick. No amount of wishing and pissing and moaning about it in what you consider the 'sam community' will change that. If they do decide to open up the realm of fourth-tier skill chains, I highly doubt they'll call it such.

As for reducing skill chain damage, please link me to the post where an official employee of Square-Enix references this. The only references I've seen to reducing skill chain damage have been from idiots, not anyone associated with SE.

And you're right about not reading every post on this forum. If it doesn't have a crown icon, I'm probably going to ignore it, because it's essentially guaranteed to be idiotic shit just like this.

Every once in a while I let myself get sucked in, though, and it usually ends with me trying to fix stupid. And then I give up once I come to the conclusion that it's futile.

Like now.


QFT.

want to see link too

[StingRay104]

It still doesn't matter, because despite what you and your cadre of imbeciles have considered it, Cosmic Elucidation is just a BC gimmick. No amount of wishing and pissing and moaning about it in what you consider the 'sam community' will change that. If they do decide to open up the realm of fourth-tier skill chains, I highly doubt they'll call it such.

As for reducing skill chain damage, please link me to the post where an official employee of Square-Enix references this. The only references I've seen to reducing skill chain damage have been from idiots, not anyone associated with SE.

And you're right about not reading every post on this forum. If it doesn't have a crown icon, I'm probably going to ignore it, because it's essentially guaranteed to be idiotic shit just like this.

Every once in a while I let myself get sucked in, though, and it usually ends with me trying to fix stupid. And then I give up once I come to the conclusion that it's futile.

Like now.

Cosmic Elucidation is a Level 4 Skillchain (or Renkei), composed of unknown elements.

this straight from wiki, now before you go saying wiki is bunch of bs blah blah blah this has been up on wiki for over 4 years, which is when I first stumbled across this, so seeing how its been left it it is accepted as truth by all those who can edit, so your callin a large group of people imbeciles.

Also it was a response by Camate idk if it was crowned at the time but its there go find it yourself because I'm tired of dealing with your idiotic bs, so go do some work because I find it interesting that a self proclaimed lover of skillchains would have missed that.

[hiko]

the down point from wiki is taht every single clueless noob can edit it. and there is the verification needed tag on it
from renkei chart T1 is single element, T2 is 2elements, t3 is 4element, so renkei T4 is all 8 element
CE doesn't match this, it's NOT T4 it's an out of renkei SC

[Gotterdammerung]

I would like to see sam get a skill that makes it easier for them to chain. Possibly something like dancers wild flourish possibly.


Thanks SE for listening xD

Konzen-ittai is perfect.

[Ryozen]

I'm sure it was your comment that caused them to implement Konzen-ittai. Yep.

[Lancil]

Gekko to Kaiten is distortion not light, So rana>gekko>kaiten would not work for a T4.
Ok I can't help myself but I feel like I need to point out that Gekko > Kaiten wont make Distortion. In fact, it wont make anything. The point of it(exactly as Ryozen said) is to make darkness from Rana > Gekko and create another lvl of skillchain by adding the Light property from Kaiten.
Rana is "Gravitaion" and induration. Gekko "Distortion" reverberation. Kaiten "Light" & "Framentaion".

[Gotterdammerung]

I'm sarcastic. Yep.

It's not unreasonable to think so. Its not like it was some random comment. Its the original post of this thread in the samurai section of an official suggestions forum.

But even if they didn't get the idea from me, I wanted it done, and its done. So thanks SE.

[Lotmorning]

So with this new JA I know we can make double light SC's however I been trying to find a way to make double darkness without any luck. Was wondering if there some obscure way of obtaining a double dark SC.

[hiko]

no,
need a WS with lvl3 darkness properties, fudo,kaiten and namas have lvl3 light.

[Nala]

Konzen-ittai is freaking nice, i was half expecting a wild flourish potency (aka simulated t1 element opener) type move but being able to t3 off it is sweeet.

[Ryozen]

Yeah, it's pretty nice indeed. Pretty cool to turn a 2500 damage WS into a 5500 damage WS+SC at the cost of only a second's worth of JA.