Dupegate, the aftermath and lack of consequences [Archive]

Alhanelem

11-15-2019, 04:44 AM

Any report would have been unfounded. No one was admitting to it, so it would just be salt at that point. "hes making too much money, I'm going to report him" This IS an accurate statement. knowing what happened, but was NOT at the time. There was no "evidence" to submit. (that I had access to)

Honestly, depending on the level of knowledge of this exploit, you could pretty well assume that anyone that was standing there and looking at the ??? for longer than any normal person would, that they are potentially using the exploit. There is no penalty for reporting someone whom you believe to be exploiting something, unless it can be shown that you are doing so maliciously. Better to report and let the GMs decide if it's founded or not. Your evidence is you see someone interacting with a known exploitable NPC/target and they are acting suspiciously.. That's all you need to say.

It's certainly more productive than not reporting anyone and then complaining that they aren't in trouble. In fact if you have names of people you have good reason to believe used the exploit, then you should still report them.

Isola

11-15-2019, 04:55 AM

Alhanelem

11-15-2019, 05:14 AM

First, no one knew that that a dupe was active, until it was reported. Second, no one knew that the ??? was respoonsible (among other npcs btw) until it was reported. Anyone you saw standing there, you had no idea why, until now. You can't just report every player that looks afk.
Something police departments often say... "If you see something, say something."

You can't get in trouble for reporting someone and having it turn out not to be a thing, unless you're exhibiting a pattern of behavior of reporting people just to get them investigated.

Second, if no one knew until you (somebody?) reported it, that still means anyone that was there after you made the report might be suspect.

(Third, if it wasn't known by others til you posted it, well, it seems like there are holes in the story here that need filling in)

In all honesty I don't know what the actual purpose of the ??? in question is, I have never been to it, so if there's a sudden influx of people visiting a spot t hat isn't commonly visited, that can and should be treated as suspect.

I just don't think it's right to complain about people not getting in trouble when no one reported them for doing something wrong.

Isola

11-15-2019, 05:19 AM

The npc (???) in question is routinely visited, and afked by routinely with bazaar. Nothing would've looked abnormal.

I did not find it, nor am I the one who reported it, nor did I use it

This is why I'm specifically talking about the aftermath of it.

everyone that bought anything related to dynamis-divergance got to keep stolen goods. and/or profit from it, not only during, but in the aftermath as well.

Mithlas

11-15-2019, 06:03 AM

I kind of feel the same.
And unless they also rollback everything from the past two years, we have no definite number on how many +2, +3 relic pieces, +2 necks, and SU5 weapons were crafted and sold just from basically having free mats.

Stompa

11-15-2019, 08:04 AM

Cheating is wrong, obviously, and I am glad they fixed the "loophole" that allowed cheating in this particular case.

There is a lot of cheating and exploitation going on elsewhere.

FFXI is running on a skeleton crew. They can't be expected to fix every loophole, and pounce on every exploit instantaneously.

A few years ago, there was even official SE conference speech about ending FFXI altogether.

Later, I was so happy when SE reversed that official statement, and announced that FFXI was staying online, "for many years to come."

Does other people's cheating affect my happiness in Vana'diel? No. I am saddened by their actions, and sometimes annoyed by it.

But other people's cheating does not make Vana'diel less beautiful to me. Other people's cheating does not make my Automaton look less adorable when he runs towards me on his little metal legs. Other people's cheating does not lessen my enjoyment of having adventures with my friends, or going fishing, or any of the other activities that I love to do in Vana'diel.

Some people cheated and used an exploit to obtain lots of Gil. That is morally wrong of course, and I am glad it has been stopped. But it doesn't affect me, because my FFXI life doesn't revolve around Gil. Those cheaters can not steal the experiences and memories that I have in Vana'diel, because those experiences and memories are priceless and exist entirely outside of the Gil marketplace.

I am so happy because FFXI is still online, and I am so happy because I can still spend time in Vana'diel. My experiences in Vana'diel will never be tarnished by the actions of cheaters and exploiters. Even though I am glad to see those cheating people stopped and banned, I don't let their existence diminish my own personal FFXI gaming experience.
:)

Isola

11-15-2019, 08:10 AM

That's the problem, it HAS NOT been stopped. ALL of the duped items still exist.

Yes, they can't MAKE more. Kind of irrelevant when there are already millions.

Pixela

11-15-2019, 08:16 AM

Everything you do on ffxi is logged, everything. They have IP addresses you log-in with from the moment you started and they can cross-reference that with other accounts that may have logged in with those same ips, they have all this data available to scan though.

If someone dupes and sends the money to another account, it is all logged and they can trace it. If you goto some random spot in the world and trade or use a bazaar to get it to another character that is logged. There is no way to send items or gil in a way that is not logged by the server, no matter how smart you think you are. When someone is banned they go back through the logs and try to trace where money and items go because they obviously do look for this and they are well used to doing it to handle RMT that do exactly what you're talking about as a business model. This isn't done at the same time as the initial ban btw, this is done over a course of time after the initial ban and is done by the special task force.

So you don't know what they did or did not already do at all and are being mad for some reason over your assumptions, with no facts to back up your anger.

Here is the thing, there was no bug to take advantage of. They were literally "hacking" (really low tier hacking, but hacking all the same) the server, there is no grey area here where you are just taking advantage of a bug.

As for rollbacks, they can't punish the entire server for the actions of a handful of people (rollbacks is doing just that, punishing everyone by taking all progress away from them)...unless the duration is a matter of days and even then they have to really judge if it's worth it or not.

Isola

11-15-2019, 08:37 AM

Again. Yes, square knows where all the medals are. However, they're STILL THERE. The longer they take to remove them the less it matters that they stopped it. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

The crafters have a current pool of MILLIONS of fake medals to draw upon. That. Can't. Be. Allowed.

VoiceMemo

11-15-2019, 11:50 AM

As for rollbacks, they can't punish the entire server for the actions of a handful of people (rollbacks is doing just that, punishing everyone by taking all progress away from them)...unless the duration is a matter of days and even then they have to really judge if it's worth it or not.

Sure they can punish the entire server for the actions of a few. Look at fishing and chocodigging, both had server side limits of how much can be fished/dug per day BECAUSE of cheaters. We're still paying the price for the cheating actions of a few as these limitations are still in place.

Less SE is going to spend massive amounts of time going though logs to track EVERY SINGLE currency that was duped and where it went. Then forcibly removing either the currency or the end result if the currency was converted to an item and then synthed to another item.

Rollback of entire servers would be the easiest solution. Would it be fair, probably not but life's not fair. The massive influx of currency is already there and is hurting the market, something must be done.

TullemoreAsuraFFXI

11-15-2019, 02:15 PM

I've been calling for interface, communications, & commerce evolutions. Many posts about how FFXI's current interface is absolutely vulnerable to unethical actions and violations of ToS. I've expressed in these forums the need to upgrade and enhance communications properly in order to welcome the new decade. Much has been learned both inside and outside of FFXI about online games since the 2002 launch. Additionally THE ONLY way SE will even come close to being able to log and accurately comprehend the manipulation, laundering and retailing of FFXI items and the culprits behind each scam, scheme, hack or other ToS violation is to implement NPC mediators for all item transactions and all currency transactions with the exception being bound to account delivery box (receive+send). Months ago a carefully analyzed and thought out proposal was submitted to these forums.

I'll display the link.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/55608-Placed-into-June-Digest-reply-but-relates-to-items-crafting-economy-econ-health?p=617678#post617678

And quote of the proposal.

~

Placed into June Digest reply, but relates to items, crafting, economy + econ health
This is a concern for the longevity of FFXI, the current state of our community and the overall health of each server.

At this point i really really really believe that FFXI is unworthy of it's ignorant peer to peer transaction interfaces. Unregulated interface design has lead to a manipulated and sometimes corrupt environment.
All items in game categorized as equipment should be account-mail only (bound to account). This specifically concerns only the mail system, equipment will still have a place in the economy -> Read Below.
Increase mail outslot/inslot to 32+.
Trade boxes have the option for a gil trade completely removed.
Crafting skill level cap per character reworked to allow all crafts to achieve maximum skill level.

"EX" itemization tag is completely removed from game with the exception of reforged armors, augmented equipment or equipment with Rank point upgrades.
All items are given a NPC mediatory vendor listing in a new player supplied warehousing/pawnshop style environment including items that have "EX" tag removed.
Auction house is removed and replaced with this new interface. SE dev team + director + producer select a base exchangeable gil rate for said items in the new warehousing system. Dev team + director + producer can elect to set a minimum and maximum value for every listing.
Bazaar is linked to new warehousing system, prices of items placed into bazaar are set automatically by the current listing price through the new item commerce system.
Item listings are subject to the supply and demand through easily constructed price formulas by which small percentages of value are subtracted or added based on stock levels and availability of items within each listing.
Prices never exceed the maximum price for items that existing NPC vendors sell at: this includes all items that are currently sold by every NPC vendor. When selling to NPC vendors players are paid a suggested amount of 75%-90% of the item's current listing price.
Listing prices adjust automatically based upon inventory levels.
Sold items are automatically accounted for and added to the warehousing inventory. Inventory levels begin at and can become zero.

All equipment purchased with "Sparks" will receive a random stat augment applicable to the jobs that access user prerequisite. Example: Cloth armor sold from Sparks vendor with job listings for BLM/WHM/RDM/SCH/GEO/SMN could receive an augment of +INT or +MND based upon the level range bracket it's sold through.
New NPCs created that will remove any augment for the cost of X 100 the item's minimum equipment level. One placed in each city where sparks vendors are currently located.

Feel free to use this perspective and innovation in all of Square Enix's current and future titles. Thank you very much for your attention!

~

Isola

11-15-2019, 03:57 PM

Pixela

11-15-2019, 04:47 PM

Dear STF, check the people you ban for their ffxiv account and ban that too. They most likely cheat on that too and it's an extra punishment for people who annoyed and wasted the dev teams time.

Spellstar

11-15-2019, 11:44 PM

@Special_Task_Force

The post you put up still doesn't do anything about the damage that was done by everyone that didn't directly exploit. All the mules of exploiters, all the alts of exploiters, all the friends of exploiters, all the buyers of duped goods, all the hoarders of duped medals, suffer zero consequences.

And yes, other dupes existed at the same time.

You need to get over yourself and your sense of self-entitlement.

The Devs did all they could, and quickly. They confirmed there was an exploit and they banned all the accounts involved. Most of the gil made from the exploit was removed from the game. And any that was passed on to other accounts is probably a drop in the ocean compared to all the RMT gil-farming that goes on theses days.

The Devs could not have done more.

Get over it, you make yourself sound crazy with all your demanding, outraged posts, over and over again in this thread.

Calm down you're going to give yourself a heart attackaru. :mad::mad::mad::D:D:D

Isola

11-16-2019, 01:42 AM

If that's the best they could do, they don't deserve to keep getting paid to do it.

I am entitled. I'm entitled to play a game with F'ing rules that actually get enforced. And they aren't. Yes I'm going to complain about that.

Raydeus

11-16-2019, 08:39 AM

Just as I was considering getting back into the game for a while... Please tell me this only affected Asura, I'm not looking forward to trying to play again only to find out crafting is even less worthwhile these days unless you hack your way into profit.

Mithlas

11-16-2019, 08:55 AM

It was pretty much available on every server. Just that Asura has the largest population so it's effects were more felt there.

Alhanelem

11-16-2019, 10:28 AM

There you go. Consequences.

Isola

11-16-2019, 10:29 AM

There you go. Consequences.

I don't see where the hell you see any consequences. Far as I can see dozens of shield mules making billions off the duped medals, consequence free.

Alhanelem

11-16-2019, 10:34 AM

I don't see where the hell you see any consequences. Far as I can see dozens of shield mules making billions off the duped medals, consequence free.
I mean, do you have evidence of this?

My understanding is beastmen/kindred seals were being duplicated. Beyond that I don't know much but I don't see how you could make "billions" in the span of time from when the exploit was discovered to when the NPC was disabled.

Isola

11-16-2019, 10:36 AM

https://www.ffxiah.com/player/Asura/Dragonsrage

Crocea Mors Nov. 14, 2019 Dragonsrage Geriond 160,000,000
Crocea Mors Nov. 14, 2019 Dragonsrage Eminentcanyon 160,000,000
Crocea Mors Nov. 13, 2019 Dragonsrage Threnodie 159,100,000
Crocea Mors Nov. 13, 2019 Dragonsrage Haxetc 160,000,000
Kindred's Medal x99 Nov. 11, 2019 Mallox Dragonsrage 95,000,000
Kindred's Medal x99 Nov. 11, 2019 Mallox Dragonsrage 95,000,000
Kindred's Medal x99 Nov. 11, 2019 Mallox Dragonsrage 95,000,000
Beastmen's Medal x99 Nov. 11, 2019 Mallox Dragonsrage 90,000,000
Beastmen's Medal x99 Nov. 11, 2019 Anye Dragonsrage 90,000,000
Beastmen's Medal x99 Nov. 11, 2019 Anye Dragonsrage 90,000,000
Beastmen's Medal x99 Nov. 11, 2019 Anye Dragonsrage 90,000,000
Beastmen's Medal x99 Nov. 11, 2019 Mallox Dragonsrage 90,000,000
Kindred's Medal x99 Nov. 11, 2019 Awnia Dragonsrage 95,600,000
Kindred's Medal x99 Nov. 11, 2019 Awnia Dragonsrage 95,600,000
Kindred's Medal x99 Nov. 11, 2019 Awnia Dragonsrage 95,600,000
Kindred's Medal x99 Nov. 11, 2019 Awnia Dragonsrage 95,600,000
Kindred's Medal x99 Nov. 11, 2019 Awnia Dragonsrage 95,600,000
Kindred's Medal x99 Nov. 11, 2019 Awnia Dragonsrage 95,600,000
Kindred's Medal x99 Nov. 11, 2019 Awnia Dragonsrage 95,600,000

Alhanelem

11-16-2019, 10:38 AM

oh, medals. I honestly had no idea that was something different lol...

I'd keep a close eye on that history and see how far it continues. If that amount of gil moving around doesn't raise STF red flags I would be shocked (a little).

Isola

11-16-2019, 10:41 AM

yeah, who would care if they duped beastmen SEALS.

Alhanelem

11-16-2019, 10:42 AM

yeah, who would care if they duped beastmen SEALS.lol hey, I don't know, I mean technically it could impact the economy, but nowhere near the same manner.

I guess I can blame SE for making items with names that are so similar to those that have existed since basically the beginning.

Isola

11-16-2019, 10:43 AM

Couldn't be that bothered to care if someone wants to do hundreds or thousands of kclub runs. yeah, it's still against ToS and it would be a problem worth dealing with, but this is of a whole different magnitude.

I do care that literal trillions of duped gil are STILL on the market right now.

Alhanelem

11-16-2019, 10:45 AM

Couldn't be that bothered to care if someone wants to do hundreds or thousands of kclub runs.

I do care that literal trillions of duped gil are STILL on the market right now.
Well, that paper trail being left is a pretty clear basis for a report, so if you want more consequences, you'd better start stuffing that STF inbox.

Isola

11-16-2019, 10:48 AM

You would think it's pretty obvious, but yet, still not banned. (I really don't think someone who BOUGHT duped medals should be banned persay) but they can't just get to keep the medals either.

Isola

11-16-2019, 01:36 PM

Look at this ridiculousness. The entire linkshell banned for duping, but these accounts still selling and buying duped mats like nothing happened. Great job STF.

https://www.ffxiah.com/player/Asura/Vibzz
https://www.ffxiah.com/player/Asura/Vibiz

radarbabyeater

11-16-2019, 02:28 PM

Can the STF actually do something about the INSANE and LUDICROUS amount of botters? Like, just log into your own game and you'd know how pervasive this crap is. Nothing has been done about it for months and months and months. They claim how important the integrity of the game is, but is it really?

Gwydion

11-16-2019, 04:27 PM

It was possible to use this exploit against NPCs that returned items, so riftcinder, riftdross, swart astral and heroism crystals are all suspect. For Delivery Crate, riftcinder/riftdross were duplicated and stored by the thousands.

However, for NPCs that did not return an item (Oboro, swart/heroism crystals), you would simply get 8x the credit for your trade. Imagine going to Oboro and making a Rank 15 weapon with 1/8th of the Swart Astral or Heroism Crystals!

This is so awful. I hope SE has records of the trades to Oboro and Delivery Crate. Anyone who dupes these items, made an Afterglow weapons/shields illegitimately, and the alt characteers who store their reservers ....should ALL BE BANNED. Any account that is sitting on thousands of these items or completes an exorbitant trade within hours of each other should be automatically banned. (-_-)

Pixela

11-16-2019, 06:15 PM

You need to understand something here, Square regularly "dupe" items in a way... with campaigns. They give increased drop rates, double drops etc. Unity campaign = double drop rates and the prices divebomb for a while and then recover.

There being more of an item in circulation isn't necessarily a problem that leads to the end of the world, if after this they judge that now there aren't enough of these medals guess what they will do? They will increase drop rates or add a campaign with double drops. The drop rates and needed campaigns etc are calculated based on how many of an item are in circulation, now that this exploit has been fixed they will see a drastic drop over time in the amount in circulation and may have to increase drop rates.

The problem isn't extra items in circulation (the entire duping problem isn't as big a deal as you think it is, very few people had the "tools" to do this and the ones that did couldn't sell enough in a short space of time anyway), it was people being able to abuse the system and getting them off the server. The economy hasn't been damaged long-term anymore than any campaign or easy ambuscade month does.

Here is the problem for the people that abused these things with other npcs, they end up killing the game for themselves.

Years ago I used to play PSO, I loved the game more than anything and was highly addicted to it. I wanted that lavis cannon, the spread needle, the dragon slayer etc and I farmed rare monsters, did ruins runs over and over again to get them. I played like a driven demon because I wanted those flashy items, and although it annoyed me because it took so long to get them it kept me chugging away and the items were solid gold to me when I did get them.

However I then found out about duping and used it and in a few months I had every item in the game that I wanted and all those cool flashy weapons not only had little value to me but I didn't even use most of them. I was so bored that I had nothing left to do, I was so OP that the game was trivial anyway, had no drive to do anything and had a full inventory of cool items I didn't care about, but I kept playing because I still loved the game. I effectively ruined the game for myself so I learned my lesson.

The goals you have, the making of REMA etc are why you keep playing and driven to do content, those are the things that keep you doing stuff. When you have everything you lose the drive to do anything and just end up sitting in town trolling yell. Ultimately they just hurt themselves by cheating.

Gwydion

11-16-2019, 06:20 PM

I understand where you're coming from, but the recent exploit has allowed more medals, riftdross, riftcinder, heroism crystals and swart astrals to stockpiled by a select few. They are still out there. Without additional expansions or upgrades to Weapons and Armor, they will have an unfair advantage and negatively affect the rate at which other, honest players can progress. (Upgrade paths for REMA weapons/shields are too narrow as it is). Even linkshells that farm Dynamis-Divergence for splitting-gil have found some difficulty selling their winnings.

My goals haven't changed because they duped items and stored them on mules. My goals have been significantly hampered due to the present short-term inflation caused by this exploit. :(

Pixela

11-16-2019, 06:56 PM

You don't know how many people have "stockpiled" anything and anyway because human nature being what it is... when people abuse stuff like this they get more and more brazen (when they see no risk) and end up getting the accounts banned. Whatever the people who abused this got in the past when they controlled themselves was probably all lost when they went crazy duping medals and got caught and banned (trust me, mass selling gets old and they end up just having a mass of stuff on their alts). Again they can see all your trades and see that stockpile on your alt account, nothing on ffxi is private. This is their world.

Even RMT would not heavily abuse this (and they didn't know about it anyway) because it would destroy the economy, which is how they make money long-term.

Regardless of that anyway, is there an increase of those items? yes but so what? There is an increase of most of those items by a massive amount when there is an easy ambuscade month, someone finds some easy way to kill things like astral burn or when someone loses their job and no-lifes content for months during double drop etc Summoner burn and 1 hour resets had more impact than this ever would of because far more people abused that.

It's not that big of a deal as it's being made out to be because again, the people that had this script was fairly small and it's not hard to nuke them and their horde of alts when that is the case.

Isola

11-16-2019, 07:19 PM

It's not that big of a deal as it's being made out to be because again, the people that had this script was fairly small and it's not hard to nuke them and their horde of alts when that is the case.

yeah, it's not hard, that's the problem. Every second this goes unresolved, everything loses value. Dragging their feet is unacceptable.

Pixela

11-16-2019, 10:50 PM

yeah, it's not hard, that's the problem. Every second this goes unresolved, everything loses value. Dragging their feet is unacceptable.

It was patched game wide for all npcs days ago (the trade system is a module all npcs call for this type of trade, so fix for one is fix for all), the abusers were banned and lost access to their stashes too. It's mostly all contained at this point and wasn't that big to start with. Again, all trades are logged and they know who used it, or at least the biggest problem people (no need to ban a person that used it for 5 dupes). Sure people used dupes to unknowingly upgrade some gear but it's not a big deal in the grand scheme, anymore than a double drop event would be. Prices will return to normal after few weeks, demand will still be there.

If I had to guess I would say this all started in Norg at certain NPCs from a certain script there (that was altered for use somewhere else), so there are probably some people sweating and hoping they don't check into their perfect augments too deeply xD

Isola

11-16-2019, 11:04 PM

It was patched game wide for all npcs days ago (the trade system is a module all npcs call for this type of trade, so fix for one is fix for all), the abusers were banned and lost access to their stashes too. It's mostly all contained at this point and wasn't that big to start with. Again, all trades are logged and they know who used it, or at least the biggest problem people (no need to ban a person that used it for 5 dupes). Sure people used dupes to unknowingly upgrade some gear but it's not a big deal in the grand scheme, anymore than a double drop event would be. Prices will return to normal after few weeks, demand will still be there.

If I had to guess I would say this all started in Norg at certain NPCs from a certain script there (that was altered for use somewhere else), so there are probably some people sweating and hoping they don't check into their perfect augments too deeply xD

Everything, absolutely every word of this post is incorrect

The few accounts that duped are banned, ZERO of their stashes are gone. NEW medals can't be duped but TRILLIONS of gil worth of duped medals still exist on alts. 1 dupe is bannable. Everyone who bought duped gear is guilty, not necessarily banably guilty, but punishably guilty.

Dragonsrage has 2 billion gil worth of duped medals. (That we know of, for certain)

5 Medals = 1 Corcea mors. He has no less than 1500 medals. While it's not 100% that every 5 medals will create 1 Crocea, that's still around 30 BILLION gil. Conservatively. That's just one guy. There are dozens.

Pixela

11-16-2019, 11:44 PM

Just because some person you don't like has a lot of them does not mean they duped them and if you say otherwise you need to prove it.

Okhryeny

11-17-2019, 02:05 AM

first gonna point out that if you rolled back the server 2 years would have a worse impact on the game then the dupers. asura might last but the low population servers would be effected the worse and many people would just quit then have to redo everything and i do mean everything because everyone would have to clear all of dyna again just to unlock weapons and the job clears and thats just dyna. I mean if you want to destroy ffxi just ask em to pull the plug. and i doubt you have done much crafting because you dont make billions on weapons. ive spent 100+ mil and not one +2 was crafted and that was just on necks weapons are worse which is why they cost more

Isola

11-17-2019, 03:17 AM

Don't roll the servers back, that's suicide. Just remove the medals. BEFORE they all get used. It's not god damn rocket science.

VoiceMemo

11-17-2019, 02:43 PM

Don't roll the servers back, that's suicide. Just remove the medals. BEFORE they all get used. It's not god damn rocket science.

If they want to do that they better shut down the servers for a few days and get it all done. Also prorate our service fees for the days they have to shut down the servers to do this.

Raydeus

11-18-2019, 04:13 AM

Holy...what a mess. Yeah, I'm skipping resubbing this year, maybe things will be better in 2020. See you all again around May-June.

Alhanelem

11-18-2019, 05:33 PM

Holy...what a mess. Yeah, I'm skipping resubbing this year, maybe things will be better in 2020. See you all again around May-June.
Idkby, but I'm not letting a little cheating controversy stop me from enjoying the game. I know I don't cheat for an economic advantage and I can simply not associate with anyone who does.

Pixela

11-18-2019, 06:23 PM

Holy...what a mess. Yeah, I'm skipping resubbing this year, maybe things will be better in 2020. See you all again around May-June.

What are you even talking about, there is no mess at all. It's being overblown by a few people.

Gwydion

11-18-2019, 06:32 PM

What are you even talking about, there is no mess at all. It's being overblown by a few people.

There are still thousands of duplicated items (beastmen/kindred medals, riftcinder/riftdross) STILL stored on mules from people who took advantage of the exploit on Aurix (???, D-8) and the Delivery Crate in Ru'Lude Gardens.

Mithlas

11-18-2019, 11:38 PM

Pixela

11-18-2019, 11:48 PM

There are still thousands of duplicated items (beastmen/kindred medals, riftcinder/riftdross) STILL stored on mules from people who took advantage of the exploit on Aurix (???, D-8) and the Delivery Crate in Ru'Lude Gardens.

a) you don't know that at all, you're assuming

b) who cares? Every time they have a double drop campaign they dupe items legit and the economy handles that just fine. Prices drop and recover over the next months, medals will be the same.

Pixela

11-18-2019, 11:50 PM

Lmao my concern isn't even on those medals.

It's on the items generated and monopolized by crafting with them.
Aka

1. Dupe Medal
2. Turn in for mats
3. Synth SU5, necks, etc
4. ???
5. Profit

Will all of those easily created items that people are now wearing disappear? Will the user be banned for buying something created with a duped material? Or are those gonna be untouched (preferable)?

<:D

The people who bought them still had to buy them, dupe or not. Makes no difference to them.

The people who abused it (only 40-50 people actually could do this) to get better gear themselves with no cost were banned or are getting to the point they quit faster, self damage.

Isola

11-19-2019, 12:35 AM

lol, again, totally wrong, on all accounts pix.

No one has to assume anything, it's obvious. And no one banned stayed banned, they're all back on clone accounts. or new bought accounts.

Alhanelem

11-19-2019, 01:40 AM

Lmao my concern isn't even on those medals.

It's on the items generated and monopolized by crafting with them.
Aka

1. Dupe Medal
2. Turn in for mats
3. Synth SU5, necks, etc
4. ???
5. Profit

Will all of those easily created items that people are now wearing disappear? Will the user be banned for buying something created with a duped material? Or are those gonna be untouched (preferable)?

<:D
Since the duping is over, this is something that will gradually fade over time. Prices will return to normal, and while there will be some winners and losers, eventually it will stabalize. I agree that it's being overblown.

Isola

11-19-2019, 04:38 AM

The naivety of you people is staggering.

Dragoy

11-19-2019, 05:19 AM

I appreciate that they told us anything at all. Could do some more of that.

I'll also hope they're not quite done with it yet, and keep on cleaning things up. Either way, it will not affect my game-play etc. either.

(Just wish they'd do something about the botters etc., too. Don't even need to tell us about it!)

Coffeegood

11-19-2019, 09:15 AM

focus on the 36-48 rmt on our servers flooding zones with 500 % movement speed 24/7 botting seems like a task for this super special task force

Isola

11-20-2019, 08:41 AM

A bump so that it doesn't get forgotten.

MILLIONS of duped items still exist on alts of dupers, and on the auction house. And now a second exploit is live. Doing a great job STF.

Typral

11-20-2019, 10:55 AM

SE, you need to intervene. This game needs policing and it is out of control right now, please issue WARNINGS(not perma bans) to all the bots atm, it would force people to realize you mean business after such a lax two years.

Alhanelem

11-20-2019, 01:54 PM

The naivety of you people is staggering.
Your ability to blow things out of proportion is staggering.

Not that it's not a problem, but this looks to me like a case of hyperbolizing something to goad action. (Even if it seems more peoiple are now trying to test whether or not SE will ban them for doing stupid crap)

(side note to a comment on the previous page about medals being sold- only seems to have been on Asura. Only 2 kindred medal stacks have ever been sold on Shiva, and 8 beastmen medal stacks- and in both cases, the stack prices are higher than the singles- so it honestly appears that all or most of the hackers were on Asura- yet another perk to not dogpiling onto the biggest server...)

Isola

11-20-2019, 03:00 PM

It really isn't, I mean well, it'd be hard to hoard MILLIONS, but you get the point. The dupers can put 100k medals on a mule. And they did, absolutely.

And they're talking about it, openly.

Edit: I had quotes in this space, but it won't accomplish anything.

Alhanelem

11-20-2019, 03:23 PM

Let me just save you some trouble: server transfer.

(you know, even llong before the last server merges, really long before people for whatever reason decided to start piling on Asura, Asura was known to players on many other servers as the scum of vana'diel. And to be frank, from my view, it seems that little has changed...)

Isola

11-20-2019, 03:26 PM

It's the toilet of vanadiel. But there are no other options if you want to be able to buy anything without having to pay $40 to get it

Alhanelem

11-20-2019, 03:59 PM

It's the toilet of vanadiel. But there are no other options if you want to be able to buy anything without having to pay $40 to get it
It's really not as bad as you think.... while mercing is certainly a thing, I can do pretty much anything, even dynamis D, without paying mercs (But for dynamis, to be fair, If I really want to do it I have to get up early in the morning lol) And no, I'm not a merc nor am I good (or rather, multibox-y) enough to be.
I hear you on this, but I can almost guarantee a better game experience on any other server unless you have really good friends who are adamant about staying (Honestly, I've been on Shiva since NA launch)

Yeah, it's not a perfect solution, but it is certainly a quick fix in the face of SE dragging their feet on doing anything about cheaters. I can only imagine that they look at the situation and evaluate if they thing they'd lose more sub money from doing nothing vs banning the offenders. At least in the first dupegate I imagine they obviously came to the conclusion that not banning those 45 people would be likely to cost them more than 45 legitimate player subs. The thread about Neo Dupegate was dated today (or yesterday depending on your timezone) so we'll see if there is a response on round two...

Typral

11-21-2019, 10:54 AM

Another dupe... what is happening to the game!! XD

Mikah

12-18-2019, 04:46 AM

I love that stacks upon stacks of duped medals still being sold daily by the people who hoarded them.

https://www.ffxiah.com/player/Asura/Nqftw

Typral

12-18-2019, 05:46 AM

LOL. Jeepers, maybe they think a random character can physically farm 30 stacks of Beast/kindred seals in less than a month. Seems legit.

TullemoreAsuraFFXI

12-18-2019, 12:08 PM

Ya, sure seems like the staff at Square-Enix should have increased the history of sales to extend back to the previous 200+ sales. Honestly it wouldn't have been that large of a change in the UI. That way players and Square-Enix staff could route out manipulations, exploitation and overall shady behavior.

Alhanelem

12-19-2019, 02:47 AM

Mikah

12-19-2019, 05:04 AM

I'm pretty sure SE has access to more sales data than you can see on the AH.

Of course they do, the problem is the don't care enough to enforce the rules, and none of you care enough to make them.

Alhanelem

12-19-2019, 06:49 AM

Of course they do, the problem is the don't care enough to enforce the rules, and none of you care enough to make them.

I report bots, cheating and bad behavior all the time. I certainly do care, personally.

I think the server population disparity may also be a factor at work here. They might look at the big picture and see the average amount of incidents isnt unusual or anything, but the reality is, the server(s) with the most players have disporportionately more problems going on. The averages probably make the problem look less severe than it really is when they look at the overall data. Yes, there were no medal dupers on Shiva, but there were a ton on Asura. It needs to be dealt with the same ferocity as the RMT spam and other crap that is more the same on all servers.

Moonja

12-21-2019, 05:20 PM

https://i.imgur.com/b51SdE3.jpg
Legit right.
Sure SE can see all the history they want. But maybe if we show it to them here they "might" fix it....

Alhanelem

12-22-2019, 05:07 AM

im debatably more interested in the person *buying* 10 stacks at once

Mikah

12-22-2019, 06:24 AM

im debatably more interested in the person *buying* 10 stacks at once

Why would that even be a consideration? I have basically unlimited gil, so do hundreds of people. What we don't have are unlimited craft base materials.

Gil has never been easier to make, but dynamis still blows no matter how easy it gets.

Moonja

12-22-2019, 03:10 PM

im debatably more interested in the person *buying* 10 stacks at once

It is so easy to legitimately make gil. I farm dyna-D to legit make gil, I haven't been able to sell medals for 6+ months now because of this dupe exploit. Well, I could sell them but I'm not going to sell them for dirt cheap.

Even not selling my medals from dyna-D, I am sitting on so much gil to do nothing with,.

Typral

12-22-2019, 06:37 PM

Gil means everything in this game, you must not have a lot of jobs you want to upgrade to be saying that. To everyone else, Gil is very important because you can literally buy anything in todays XI with it and get any upgrade you desire.

Alhanelem

12-23-2019, 04:06 AM

It is so easy to legitimately make gil. I farm dyna-D to legit make gil, I haven't been able to sell medals for 6+ months now because of this dupe exploit. Well, I could sell them but I'm not going to sell them for dirt cheap.

Even not selling my medals from dyna-D, I am sitting on so much gil to do nothing with,.

Oh, I agree, but I usually buy stuff here and there as the gil comes in, not all at once.

TullemoreAsuraFFXI

12-23-2019, 01:36 PM

Satisfaction and prestige was once associated with utilizing the "Un-purchasable" equipment while playing a job. Too much importance on a transferable currency emboldens undesirable behavior with automated farming (bots), hacks, account theft, banned 3rd party programs, RMT, exploits and item value manipulations.

Isola

12-31-2019, 09:14 AM

Nqftw has now sold a known amount of 7200 duped medals. Where the hell is the STF at eh?

Zehira

12-31-2019, 09:55 AM

Hello, everyone. I am sure most of you are already aware. As Director Fujito has stated (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/30078-%E3%83%95%E3%82%B8%E3%83%88%E3%81%AE%E3%81%B2%E3%81%A8%E3%82%8A%E3%81%94%E3%81%A8%E3%80%82?p=612019&viewfull=1#post612019) last year. Any comments such as "what are you doing" or "where are you" will not be communicated. Since the STF is a covert team, I am sure there are zero reasons to keep demanding Square Enix to do anything even on the official forums. I know it is hard but all you can do is just report and move on.

Japanese players realized they also made a mistake and are now silent about it.

Isola

12-31-2019, 11:54 AM

I mean honestly, there's no such thing as "covert" on a videogame. They want you to stop asking questions so they can stop doing their job. They only take action when you make them look bad enough to do it.

A player having 15 billion gil worth (at a minimum, so far) of duplicated/hacked/fake items is a very obvious sign that they're ineffective at their job and SHOULD be questioned.

There are more than 30 spark bots in reisenjima right now. yeah they banned a couple. Guess what, they're all back. Different names, same players using them.

Zehira

12-31-2019, 12:06 PM

I know it is not easy I know I know. Let's be honest, even Japanese players can agree with me, if you want to keep commenting then it's fine but no one ever want another empty words from the STF team. XD

STF will create a new thread telling you, "Hey! Guess what? We just banned 2,000 cheaters this month. You have a wonderful day!"

*Players look at Nqftw still doing it*

Players: ....

Isola

12-31-2019, 12:11 PM

If they actually banned 2000 they would say they banned 10,000 thats the problem. They're liars.

If there is a thousand rule breakers and they ban 999 of them, they still did a subpar job. Every single obvious one should be handled. Then actually investigate the not so obvious ones.

Zehira

12-31-2019, 12:19 PM

Liar is liar, they are liars. You are being lied. That's their job, unfortunately.

Director Fujito also stated stuff like that will continue through the next year because they believed something like that is just a small effect and Asura is still a large population. Even 2.7k online players right now.

Edited: Whatever his main problem is. Something like this will leave dupers alone for sure. I don't defend dupers but you know it's true.

Isola

12-31-2019, 12:28 PM

Whatever excuse you want to make for them there is no excuse for letting players continue to sell and use duped medals. There is nothing easier than tracking down duplicated medals like this, especially when he's selling them on the AH. There is a paper trail.

And there is no excuse for letting dragonsrage sell all his items crafted with duped medals as well.

Isola

01-04-2020, 07:36 AM

Nqftw officially nearing 10,000 duped medals sold, how the hell is this not addressed.

TullemoreAsuraFFXI

01-04-2020, 02:25 PM

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/55608-Placed-into-June-Digest-reply-but-relates-to-items-crafting-economy-econ-health

This breaks the RMT and the cheater-to-purchase-progression culture. It deserves implementation asap.

Isola

01-04-2020, 02:34 PM

Instead of trying to put your thread into every other thread, bump your own thread if you care that much about it. They're all stupid ideas.

This thread isn't for that.

TullemoreAsuraFFXI

01-04-2020, 03:42 PM

I can conceive of three categories of subscribers that would not advocate for evolution within the UI to disrupt the wickedly compromised FFXI economy.

#1 A player that revels in trading gil for increases in power progression.
#2 An individual or organization of individuals that proliferate through either exploiting the players described in #1 or participating in RMT behaviors.
#3 A player that can not conceive the repercussions of past transgressions or the repercussions of allowing the current environment which facilitates disgusting behavior and violations of the FFXI ToS to continue.

Isola

01-04-2020, 04:25 PM

You forgot the only important "category"

The ones who know they aren't going to rebuild the whole damn game. End of story.

I don't think ANYTHING (including crafting) should be able to be bought or sold, and strictly based on earning. but I'm also not stupid enough to think they will ever even consider changing the game in any way shape or form economy wise.

Isola

01-04-2020, 05:09 PM

Back to the point of THIS thread.

nqftw, an obvious mule/selling account has sold ninety three hundred fake dynamis medals. And you still haven't done anything about it. That's embarrassing. Shameful.

Roughwind, a player who took advantage of the dupe (and got banned) created a new account, and is profiting off his duped gains on this new account, Roughstorm. Absolutely zero consequence for duping billions of gil worth of items.

Kemikalz, a player who took advantage of the dupe (and got banned) created a new account, and is profiting off his duped gains on this new account, Kemikal. Absolutely zero consequence for duping billions of gil worth of items.

Dragonsrage, bought thousands of duped medals and continues to profit from them.

Dozens of players have now bought duped medals and are currently profiting from them. Amarilia, Sotherland, Zeakean, Bonfala, Agwashay, Azeran, Thoril

TullemoreAsuraFFXI

01-04-2020, 05:59 PM

I completely agree about SE's ineptitude in regards to tracking the dispersal of exploitation of a ToS violation and players laundering through multi-account transfers. The day SE had adequate suspicion of an interface hack they should have slapped a "EX" tag on all items in question and all items associated with the security breech including any crafting material, crafting product or relic upgrade item until they could competently clean up the illegitimate items in question, fully secure the game code, reverted all characters determined to have been actively participating in the interface hack to a fresh creation status (meaning no job levels, no inventory, no gil, no quest completions, no mission completion, no merits, no capacity points). At which point SE could and should have introduced a NPC by which players would acquire the formerly crafted equipment (JSE necks + SU4/5 weapons) by trading in sums of dynamis {D} currency determined by the FFXI director, producer and the SE FFXI dev team.
On the day of the "EX" tag implementation, FFXI team introduces a RoE or multiple RoE for personal currency / dyn {D} loot so that players continuing to enjoy dyn {D} would not be subject to the vintage treasure pool dispersal system.