Campaign Improvements: What it could and should be.

[Zyeriis]

First I'd like to say, Campaign was a great addition to the game. However, it was still disappointing in some ways. It could've been so much more, and it still can.

What could be better about it? Well, first, there's the obvious ways, such as: the exp is no longer worth the effort, certain enemy generals are far too powerful (see: shadowhand, jagidbod's warmachine, etc.), and it's just too far out of the way to warrant care.

I'll go over solutions to these obvious things first.

1) Exp
-The solution for this obvious, double or triple the rate at which we recieve exp in campaign. However, I doubt this will be enough. So, I offer a secondary-additional solution: Exp gained per mob defeated based upon performance. You do not have to be the one to kill the enemy, you just need to have tags and have contributed to the battle. The more you contribute to the battle, the more exp you get per enemy killed in the battle.

This will encourage people to bring more people along with them to campaign with, to try to kill all of the mobs rather than just hold one by themselves and beat on it as much as they can without killing it to increase their performance bonus (and ending exp only). There is more to the suggestion regarding a change to the exp in campaign but you will need to read further on, when i begin talking about "less obvious" problems with campaign.

2) Too far out of the way
- Yes, we have retrace but that's only available to black mages level 55+. If there's not one around, what are we to do? How to solve this dilemma? It's relatively simple. We can warp to abyssea maws from port jeuno can't we? Why can't warp to wotg maws as well? Even if it is from another npc, that requires allied notes or gil, this would make getting to the past at least slightly easier. Note: make it so we are warped to the past, so as to be warped to an unearthed/unbound maw like the abyssea maws.

- Alternative (better) Solution: If you want to take this a step further, warp up to allied npcs that give campaign tags in that particular zone (basically put a campaign arbiter in jeuno, or open up jeuno [s] and put a way to travel there from normal jeuno, so we can use a campaign arbiter from jeuno [s]) It has always bothered me that we could only visit the jeuno of the past via cutscenes. Yes, it would be just another rehashed zone but it would be a hub to the rest of the past, as it should've been from the start.

3) Near impossible to kill enemy generals
- Well, this isn't so much a problem as it is an annoyance. These generals can range from pathetic to impossible to kill in the free for all that is campaign. Rather than make them easier to kill, perhaps tie this particular "problem" in with the exp problem and add a huge exp bonus to people who contribute to an enemy general's demise. I know there are some campaign spoils that are only obtainable by killing specific generals but campaign spoils are no where near enough incentive, especially when engaging one in battle generally means you're going to die and miss out on exp you would have otherwise gotten by attacking normal campaign mobs. Thus, there needs to be a far greater exp boon for those who dare to take on enemy generals and win.

4) Unions
- Being placed in a union should be automatic and random. I don't understand why it wasn't like this from the beginning. Hard as it is to get good campaign spoils, even harder it is to win those spoils despite being the biggest contributor to the battle, because some one joined late. The range of campaign spoils needs to be increased as well. Perhaps put seals (abyssea armor seals or +2 items from enemy generals) in the possible rewards as well. Dynamis currency was added to campaign spoils without affecting dynamis, why can't abyssea seals and +2 items be added as well?

--Alteration/Other Solution #1 (Courtesy of sc4500)
Allow us to choose a union we want to automatically be assigned to when recieving tags, from our home nations in the past via a NPC. This way we'll not have to worry about forgetting to sign up for a union after getting tags (which takes too long as it is) nor will we have to worry about getting hit or buffed, thus canceling our interaction with the Allied Tags/Union NPC while trying to join a union (AoE is really bad sometimes when you're just trying to sign up before engaging in battle).

--Alteration/Other Solution #2 (Courtesy of Karbuncle)
Change Unions to be based upon your rank in overall performance during a battle. No more registering. Automatically place us, based on performance in the corresponding tier of unions, so that we don't have to lot against some one who joined during the last 5 minutes of the battle.


5) Inability to fight in certain zones if you don't control other specific zones
- I'm mainly talking about Throne Room [S] and Fiat Lux. I remember when this first came out, there was such a unified effort on the server to gain control of castle zvahl to unlock the fight, to take throne room [s] and get the allied exp ring (which was amazing but short lived, why it wasn't rechargeable i'll never know) and the shadow lord armors. Does such a thing happen anymore? No, Fiat Lux is forever out of the reach of those who would want to do it because no one does campaign anymore, especially not assaults on castle zvahl when they can't even get allied tags. The first month after Fiat Lux was released, on weekends, there would be alliances that headed up to Castle Zvahl without tags, to kill campaign mobs, to take it over so the server could do Fiat Lux.

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The above are just the obvious problems with campaign. I'm going to dive into more obscure disappointments now.

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1) The enemy only has one objective control point
- This has always bothered me while fighting in East Ronfaure [S]. Why is that single tower the only defense point that is attacked? Why aren't there other places they can attack? They could easily just ignore that tower and take the eastern road straight to San d'oria without any combat. So, why? Campaign battles in towns have multiple strategic points and npcs come to defend multiple points, why can't this be done in field zones during campaign?

It would make campaign more "war-like" if the enemy retreated only to wind up attacking another position or if a diversion attack force, attacks the main base (the tower in e.ronf) while a larger enemy force attacks a satellite outpost. Campaign would actually require some degree of strategy rather than a free-for-all on mindless mobs. This was spiced up with the addition of belfrys and turrets and bomb squads but still, they are all only attacking one point in a relatively large area. Adding secondary objective/attack points would certainly add some flavor to campaign. There could also be exp bonuses for all participating members should you be victorious on all fronts.

2) Limited mobs/quick battles/battles that end soon as you get there
- This probably bothers me more than the single defense point. Enemy attacks always consist of one wave per squad. Why do these squads have no reserves? You could weaken up each mob and increase the amount of mobs, and allow the enemy general to call in reinforcements to extend the battle. Yes, other enemy squads can show up, and often do but not always. Combining this solution with the solution regarding multiple strategic points would allow for a more "intense" and "shifting" battle scene in campaign.

That's all I'm going to write for now (as it really is a WALL OF TEXT) but I still have other ideas that could be used to improve campaign, and many other aspects of the game. Taking even one of these suggestions and running with it, would at least be an attempt to revive a practically dead game mechanic. Please no "I don't want this because it would be a waste of time I'd rather have used on something I want fixed more" comments. These are my suggestions to fix a forgotten piece of the game, if you want something else fixed, make your own thread. That is all.

Edit/Additions #1 - Courtesy of Vold

1) Stronghold Warps
-This ties in with the accessibility of getting to the past fast enough to partake in campaign. We should be able to use C.A.'s to warp to strongholds. No one wants to hoof it for something like campaign (especially in it's current state).

2) Aggro from non-campaign mobs
-Xarcabard [S] is probably the worst case of this. I shouldn't have to worry about the Great Amphiptere swooping down out of nowhere while I'm already having a tough battle with a campaign mob. Yes, I enjoy the level of danger of having that particular monster soaring the skies of Xarcabard [S] but it shouldn't interfere with campaign or with reaching the C.A. to begin with (he's aggroed me in the past upon zoning in). Even when I don't get aggroed as soon as I zone, I still run the risk of him being right near the warp in location/in my way should I need to get to the battle. This. Should. Not. Happen. Ever.

Edits/Additions #2
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5597-Campaign-Improvements-What-it-could-and-should-be.?p=75928#post75928

Edits/Additions #3
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5597-Campaign-Improvements-What-it-could-and-should-be.?p=76158#post76158

Edits/Additions #4
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5597-Campaign-Improvements-What-it-could-and-should-be.?p=76561#post76561

[Vold]

Well the way I figure, the only way to get us back in CB on a regular basis is to add new gear that's useful. It doesn't need to be better than what we are getting out of Abyssea... some pieces can be in line with them or close to them or just somewhat as good but great situational pieces. Also we need to be able to take over northlands more often than never. I'm fine with those places being the end all be all of scary but it's a waste of time and effort for the developers when we aren't ever able to do anything there because A) can't port to strongholds so many are turned off from making the journey, and B)stuff in those strongholds are very poorly planned out, specifically at the fort areas and non related CB mobs aggroing you.

[Rambus]

2) Aggro from non-campaign mobs
-Xarcabard [S] is probably the worst case of this. I shouldn't have to worry about the Great Amphiptere swooping down out of nowhere while I'm already having a tough battle with a campaign mob. Yes, I enjoy the level of danger of having that particular monster soaring the skies of Xarcabard [S] but it shouldn't interfere with campaign or with reaching the C.A. to begin with (he's aggroed me in the past upon zoning in). Even when I don't get aggroed as soon as I zone, I still run the risk of him being right near the warp in location/in my way should I need to get to the battle. This. Should. Not. Happen. Ever.
Xarcabard, baucedine glacier ( more so if you have A**** holes ninja pulling ( no idea term for this)) garlaige citadel, eldieme neropolis, and vey lightly rolanberry fields.

I cannot help to think though with being 90 only the northlands will be too much trobble. When I was 75 I have got aggro while campain battle was going on and it ended then i died in these said areas before.

also if you do not know how to get there sauromuge champaign and fort karugo-narugo has a high rate of getting aggro from port in > tag

[Airget]

There's a simple way to fix campaign really, in the vain of PvP and pankration, why can't there just be content that's fun. The other night I decided to play around in campaign as NIN with a BLM and a MNK and the three of us were able to easily hold off the enemy units at Fort Karugo.

Compared to the spamming on abyssea hunting NMs for seals and such, to go into campaign and tackle mobs that once cause trouble to an alliance of people is fun. If SE were to do anything with campaign I think they should add NPC units that we have control over so that it's easier to take over territories and maybe even the potential to control your units to attack or defend certain areas when you're not around. Kinda like:

Ribbon-Enlist Fellowship NPC as Second in Command
Star---Enlist 1 new NPC
Emblen-Enlist 1 new NPC
Wing---Enlist 1 new NPC
Medal--Enlist 1 new NPC

--
Basically By the time you obtain the max medal you'll have control over 5 other allies that will fight alongside you or you could command your fellowship NPC to take your unit to attacka terriorty to claim or defend.

They could then also alter the campaign OPs for Military Training to be a way to train your NPC unit to learn new abilities/traits/magic and level up. With this in mind though I would prolly say they should reduce the amount of NPCS the generals control, but I feel like with something like this it would allow all jobs to join in the fight and have fun taking over territories.

I dunno I just think it would be fun to be in campaign as an actual general controlling a unit to lead into battle, it would bring more life into campaign and maybe people would just do it for fun to take over territories again, I mean there is still gear that people may find useful but the problem is you would need maybe at least 100 people spending a week in campaign to obtain the territories in question. I doubt people are willing to make that sacrifice, but if we were given the ability to order an NPC unit to attack certain territories to help in the allied aid then at least we would be able to offer a sort of assistance to the battle rather then always having to be there in order to win the area.

[Eeek]

Here's the easiest and quickest way to 'fix' Campaign:

Allow players to skill up while fighting Campaign mobs.

And not just to the Level 90 skill caps, either. Allow players the option to cap their skills against Campaign mobs even after the Level Cap rises to 99.

Players are already accustomed to seeing and using unorthodox job combinations in Campaign. We're accustomed to seeing players use alternate weapon types and mages swinging their weapons. FFXI's player-enforced paradigms of play-style are the weakest in the Campaign setting, so it's an ideal place for players to skill up their weapons and magic skills while having some fun.

Allowing skillups immediately makes Campaign relevant again.

[Sagian]

1) Fix the fortification nerf. There is no incentive for me to stand there and bang on the side of a building for 30 minutes for 200 xp. I understand that IF there are actually Confederate forces involved, then the xp from forts is higher, but that doesn't always happen. If I run to a fort and see no mobs, I leave... and so does everyone else.

2) My xp record for a single, contiguous, multi-wave Campaign battle is 7318. Not too shabby for an hour under the old xp system - but less than stellar under the new one.

3) Ownership of areas should update daily, not weekly. There is no incentive to attack Confederate owned areas on a Monday if all the hard work is going to be null and void on Tuesday. It would also give more of a sense of urgency to do battles in all areas to maintain ownership or reclaim lost areas. I understand that it places an additional load on the server, but the server doesn't even hiccup during the weekly tallies.

4) Send NPCs to Confederate owned areas more often instead of sending them to Alliance owned areas. It's kind of silly for the guys we're working with to not want those areas back under our control. I can't count the number of times I've gone to allied-owned Grauberg to find 300 NPCs killing my xp, then go to confederate-owned Rollanberry to find not a single Allied troop. Something is amiss.

5) Give me something worthwhile to buy with my one-million Allied Notes... please.

6) Allow skill-ups.

[sc4500]

I think all they really need to do is have more stuff drop in union treasures chests, it would help out alot. example drop rare/ex time extension for aybessea that turn into stones, drops +1 seals,

Fixed the pulls that people do to the mobs to no man lands just have a radius were can get credit. Outside the radius mobs got god mode.

Have the mobs get to the base faster when the city got control . like when beastman controlled areas on it.

Take away half the nerfs they did on it for exp , go back to when you use to get 20k exp per battle, also fortifications were able to skill up with no tags and able get exp that way. but keep the max exp at 5k for hitting fortifications unless you performance assement. aybessea all but got rid of any exp nerfs.

Fixed so you can join union from your city for the union you like and once you get it from a city npc thats your union until you decide go to different one, have it done in the citys.

Have ways from the campaing ops quests. ( Example: slaughter house 1-4 equals 4 done. finish 30 different ops) , it will give you access to the areas for the bcnm type fights like throne room even if it not under controlled from a nations.

Give Raise to all players that are dead after the battle ended, nothing more lame then when you die from boss or anything and there is no one around to raise you so lost everything you worked for. And all your reraise items are used up.

[ShadowHeart]

campaign is badly broken!! there is no doubt about this. sandy this week owns only thier own city bastok only has their won city windy has their own city + west sara. The beastmen own everything else and who wants to goto beast owned battles when fortification caps at 200 xp no matter how long u beat on it. The drops are not worthy of most high level people any more nor is the experience. The dynamis and relic currency is a decent drop still but really how rarely it drops does not make campaign worth while at all.

1. Increase the xp on fortifications.
2. Give better drops for incentives.
3. Restrict the distance you have to be from the tower / fortification to gain experience 30-40 yalms or further for example u loose tags or xp.
4. Reinstate skill ups.
5. Remove battlefield restrictions (example having to own all of northlands to do throne room bcnm fight)

[Anathiel]

I would like to know the dev's thoughts on this topic.

[Rambus]

1) Fix the fortification nerf. There is no incentive for me to stand there and bang on the side of a building for 30 minutes for 200 xp. I understand that IF there are actually Confederate forces involved, then the xp from forts is higher, but that doesn't always happen. If I run to a fort and see no mobs, I leave... and so does everyone else.

2) My xp record for a single, contiguous, multi-wave Campaign battle is 7318. Not too shabby for an hour under the old xp system - but less than stellar under the new one.

3) Ownership of areas should update daily, not weekly. There is no incentive to attack Confederate owned areas on a Monday if all the hard work is going to be null and void on Tuesday. It would also give more of a sense of urgency to do battles in all areas to maintain ownership or reclaim lost areas. I understand that it places an additional load on the server, but the server doesn't even hiccup during the weekly tallies.

4) Send NPCs to Confederate owned areas more often instead of sending them to Alliance owned areas. It's kind of silly for the guys we're working with to not want those areas back under our control. I can't count the number of times I've gone to allied-owned Grauberg to find 300 NPCs killing my xp, then go to confederate-owned Rollanberry to find not a single Allied troop. Something is amiss.

5) Give me something worthwhile to buy with my one-million Allied Notes... please.

6) Allow skill-ups.

agreed, I have no idea why they nerfed it to hell like that. if they wanted low exp gain off those then ALWAYS HAVE MOBS! I have listed such compants , like allowing skill up, fortification chage, and the NPC killing everything issue then other areas no help at all to the e-mail link they tell you to do. looks like i been ingored for a long, long time.

[Karbuncle]

I'll add my views on campaign

Point1: Skill ups.
It's been brought up. It needs to be again. Allow Skill ups in Campaign battles. I Don't understand what is so broken about being able to skill up your weaponry in campaign. Oh? You don't lose exp on death? Who cares. There is no logical reason for not being able to skill up in Campaign. It does not make sense. Please Allow it. A lot of Systems in this game are dead-in-the-water thanks to small, stupid things like this being restricted.

Point2: Union Spoils
Remove the "Choose your own union" Crap. Make it to where you're placed in a Union at the end based on your performance. Make it relative to the highest exp earned player. Top 5 Exp = Adder, next 5 = Bison, and so on, With Adder giving the best rewards, Bison giving second, etc. Adder/Bison being the only two who can see 100 currency. This removes the "I made 300 exp by leeching, Let me lot your stuff" that people complain about. Not rewards would be distributed based on Participation. This isn't a big problem, but it would solve a lot of Complaints.

Point3: Experience Points.
Experience Point yield in Campaign needs to be upped a bit. It doesn't need massive over-hauls to be on-par with Abyssea. Something like what you did with Out-side Exp. Simply Double Exp values/Limits for Campaign. This would solve that problem.

Point4: Fortifications
Fortification Nerf was because it apparently gave too much exp for players. This point is now stupid. Players can go from 30~90 in a day. Remove the Fort Nerf and allow us to Exp on Forts same as Campaign Enemies. we're still doing the War effort a great service by weakening the enemies, We deserve the same rewards.

Point5: Enemies in general
Increase the HP of Enemies, Not their Attack/Acc/Def/Strength/etc, Just their HP. More HP = More killing = More Exp in the end. this Simple feat will elongate the duration of battles. Increase Allied Forces HP by the same amount, Otherwise it becomes a one-sided Rape Fest. Also look into some Campaign Bosses abilities. Some of them are just insanely Broken. the Rock-crusher guy with his ultra-Petrify Peistes comes to mind. Any monster that has pets that immediately get resummoned, mobs with Endoom.

Point6. Duration of Battles
A While back a Maximum Duration was imposed because some areas (hint: Eldieme/Garlaige/CN) Would go on nearly forever, 4/5/6 hours, Why? I Won't go into detail. But anyway, A Maximum duration of 1 hour was imposed to Campaign Battles, I think this should be doubled. If enemies are present, the duration should be lengthened. This increases the "Room for error" when things like "I just zoned in! lets get Tags!...........BATTLE OVER". It'll still happen. But not as much.

Point7: Outside Influences
As brought up previously. Enemies outside of the Campaign Enemies, While in Campaign Battle, Should not influence you. Simply give us "Battlefield" Status like with Augmented-Fight NMs, or Ballista. Where Enemies outside of Campaign Battles will not Aggro us. However, Due to the nature of that some new players could run through a zone with tags and be aggro free. Impose a "Distance" limit on Campaign Tags with this. This solves Two Problems
*One: Players Will no longer be able to drag 1 Enemy half way across the zone and Solo it for 30 minutes. While I've never had a problem with this since I'm smart enough to know that Campaign battles have a kind of "Time exp" thing. Longer Battles = more exp. Some people tend to complain cause they want to get their Precious Yew Logs from their battle and move on to losing lots on their Next batch of Yew Logs.
*Two: Players No longer get Face-Raped by Outside Influences.

Point8: Campaign Spoils
Can we please Impose some sort of "minimum not crap" Items for this? Opening your Spoil pool and seeing 200gil Synth mats flood your screen and the occasional 1 piece of Currency seems kind of underwhelming as "Spoils of Victory". I Know each zone has a 'base' pool based on exp yield for the Union, Perhaps increase the frequency of Ancient Currency. doesn't have to be by Much, Just by some. Also Consider adding new Items to it. Like the Synth Mats for the level ~90 Rings. Items like Phrygian Ore, Etc. Some Currently useful Items!

Thats all i can think of To be honest.

[Rambus]

I'll add my views on campaign

Point1: Skill ups.
It's been brought up. It needs to be again. Allow Skill ups in Campaign battles. I Don't understand what is so broken about being able to skill up your weaponry in campaign. Oh? You don't lose exp on death? Who cares. There is no logical reason for not being able to skill up in Campaign. It does not make sense. Please Allow it. A lot of Systems in this game are dead-in-the-water thanks to small, stupid things like this being restricted.

Point2: Union Spoils
Remove the "Choose your own union" Crap. Make it to where you're placed in a Union at the end based on your performance. Make it relative to the highest exp earned player. Top 5 Exp = Adder, next 5 = Bison, and so on, With Adder giving the best rewards, Bison giving second, etc. Adder/Bison being the only two who can see 100 currency. This removes the "I made 300 exp by leeching, Let me lot your stuff" that people complain about. Not rewards would be distributed based on Participation. This isn't a big problem, but it would solve a lot of Complaints.

Point3: Experience Points.
Experience Point yield in Campaign needs to be upped a bit. It doesn't need massive over-hauls to be on-par with Abyssea. Something like what you did with Out-side Exp. Simply Double Exp values/Limits for Campaign. This would solve that problem.

Point4: Fortifications
Fortification Nerf was because it apparently gave too much exp for players. This point is now stupid. Players can go from 30~90 in a day. Remove the Fort Nerf and allow us to Exp on Forts same as Campaign Enemies. we're still doing the War effort a great service by weakening the enemies, We deserve the same rewards.

Point5: Enemies in general
Increase the HP of Enemies, Not their Attack/Acc/Def/Strength/etc, Just their HP. More HP = More killing = More Exp in the end. this Simple feat will elongate the duration of battles. Increase Allied Forces HP by the same amount, Otherwise it becomes a one-sided Rape Fest. Also look into some Campaign Bosses abilities. Some of them are just insanely Broken. the Rock-crusher guy with his ultra-Petrify Peistes comes to mind. Any monster that has pets that immediately get resummoned, mobs with Endoom.

Point6. Duration of Battles
A While back a Maximum Duration was imposed because some areas (hint: Eldieme/Garlaige/CN) Would go on nearly forever, 4/5/6 hours, Why? I Won't go into detail. But anyway, A Maximum duration of 1 hour was imposed to Campaign Battles, I think this should be doubled. If enemies are present, the duration should be lengthened. This increases the "Room for error" when things like "I just zoned in! lets get Tags!...........BATTLE OVER". It'll still happen. But not as much.

Point7: Outside Influences
As brought up previously. Enemies outside of the Campaign Enemies, While in Campaign Battle, Should not influence you. Simply give us "Battlefield" Status like with Augmented-Fight NMs, or Ballista. Where Enemies outside of Campaign Battles will not Aggro us. However, Due to the nature of that some new players could run through a zone with tags and be aggro free. Impose a "Distance" limit on Campaign Tags with this. This solves Two Problems
*One: Players Will no longer be able to drag 1 Enemy half way across the zone and Solo it for 30 minutes. While I've never had a problem with this since I'm smart enough to know that Campaign battles have a kind of "Time exp" thing. Longer Battles = more exp. Some people tend to complain cause they want to get their Precious Yew Logs from their battle and move on to losing lots on their Next batch of Yew Logs.
*Two: Players No longer get Face-Raped by Outside Influences.

Point8: Campaign Spoils
Can we please Impose some sort of "minimum not crap" Items for this? Opening your Spoil pool and seeing 200gil Synth mats flood your screen and the occasional 1 piece of Currency seems kind of underwhelming as "Spoils of Victory". I Know each zone has a 'base' pool based on exp yield for the Union, Perhaps increase the frequency of Ancient Currency. doesn't have to be by Much, Just by some. Also Consider adding new Items to it. Like the Synth Mats for the level ~90 Rings. Items like Phrygian Ore, Etc. Some Currently useful Items!

Thats all i can think of To be honest.

dear SE, do this ^ that is all.

[Zyeriis]

Edit/Additions #2

1) Skill Ups (Courtesy of Eeek, Sagian, sc4500, Shadowheart, and Karbuncle)
-I meant to add this before, don't know why I forgot. Anyway, there is simply no reason for us not to get skill ups in campaign, nor was there ever a reason for it, aside from keeping Besieged "relevant". Now? Neither Campaign nor Besieged are used. Proof of this: Siren has finally lost Besieged. People do not care about either game mechanic/feature anymore (hence this thread). So why then are we not allowed skill ups? I remember the no-skill ups even if you don't have tags update, and it angered quite a few people. Why can we even attack campaign mobs without tags if we get no skill ups?

Anyway, thanks to Abyssea, new ways to skill up have become a primary focus upon reaching level 90 (in a day). Adding skill-ups to campaign will kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Breathe a bit of life back into an otherwise dead system and at the same time, give people something they sometimes desperately need: skill ups.

2) Fortifications (Courtesy of Sagian, sc4500, and Karbuncle)
-Even before the nerf, fortifications were simply a way to waste time. There was no entertainment value at all to attacking them, only skill ups if you didn't have tags and easy (albeit boring) exp if you had them. This ties back into my complaint/disappointment that there is only one place in each map where beastmen can attack. The same is true in reverse. "Why is there a horde of players sitting there, just mindlessly hitting that one wall? What is the strategic purpose of this?" It looks silly, and I don't understand how it affects the tide of battle. It's an invincible wall. At the very least there should be other offensive objectives. You can do such things via Campaign Ops but the rewards and having to get the Campaign Ops in the first are both hassles not worth the time nor the effort. You should automatically be able to do these tasks during the battle, without the need for campaign ops orders.

3) Conquest/Campaign Weekly Tally (Courtesy of Sagian)
-This has never made sense. Especially so upon the release of Fiat Lux, which I mentioned earlier. The only time people would gather together to go tag-lessly take over castle zvahl was on saturdays because the tally was on sunday. This made things even more difficult as any attempt at taking areas over during the rest of week is pointless and a waste of time, as you'll come back the next day and enemies will have max influence again. Rather than this, control of a region should be based upon the most recent victor or perhaps a set amount of repeated wins to take over an area. At the very least, make it daily rather than weekly.

4) Being dead at the end of the battle with no one to Raise you (courtesy of sc4500)
-You die, a mere moment before the battle ends, the npcs you had been relying upon to raise you, warp out instantly, leaving you dead. Are these NPCs just pricks? There's no one with raise nearby, let alone some one that can see your corpse. What are you to do? You cannot get your hard earned exp if you're dead and home point. Allied Tags should grant a permanent Reraise effect. If Atmas can do it, why can't allied tags? Or at the very least, when the battle ends, automatically raise all dead combatants.

5) No distance restrictions on pulling mobs (Courtesty of Karbuncle and ShadowHeart)
-There is already a way to prevent this in the game. Why hasn't it been implemented in campaign? It was introduced in Wings of the Goddess and it's called "Confrontation status". This status should be added to allied tags, if you run too far from the battle, you lose your tags and your progress. There are even WotG missions that have this, why can't Campaign?

--Alterations/Additional Solutions #1 (Courtesy of Seriha)
Adjust the Compass to have an arrow pointing to each campaign mob (non-bomb squad, etc. that have set objectives) to weed out people pulling enemies great distances and pro-longing fights for selfish reasons.

The original post has been editted. If I missed something, please let me know and I'll see how to add/change the content of each post to reflect other possible additions/solutions to problems with campaign.

[Rambus]

I was left dead by outside mob ( so i lost exp) i seen whm run in backround and such I send tells and no one answered.

then i had to eat a RI from some SMN....

point is i find outside agro a big issue. I wrote this stuff before in SE's letter thing. I also think mobs need to be buffed up so they do not die in 2 seconds by some 99.

your new 5. is also something i wrote to them several times, I am shocked it is still ingored

[ShadowHeart]

if i recall u dont get outside agro from bastion so making this similar in campaign shouldn't be an issue
its been a long time since i done bastion so i could be remembering wrong

[Seriha]

First off, while I understand how some people can be angry about someone pulling a mob aside to solo, any kind of tag revocation if this is done is a bad thing. Sometimes people keep mobs away from the fort to keep NPCs from steamrolling them, as Campaign is fundamentally better the longer it runs. On the other hand, you'll also get people who lag when around a large concentation of fighting (N)PCs. Instead, the mini-radar should be tweaked so that when under Allied Tag status, you get a wide scan arrow pointing to the closest campaign mob at all times.

Others mentioned a lot of the other issues like poor EXP reward, crappy Union loot (quality and distribution flaws), the Union interface itself, Forts/Offensive battles, enemy general imbalances (I'm looking at you, Rockchopper!), and the dud fights (often bombing units triggering a battle and warping out soon after). I'd like to add that the stupidity of attacker's AI is also detrimental. If both sides are even, the defenders immediately gain an advantage since the enemy advance is usually a trickle of mobs (sometimes the general is first, if only because of their flee speeds). This gives defenders time to link up and focus fire on a mob or two, the defending general often greatly helping along here if they're aggro'd. So, maybe by the time the complete invasion arrives, it'll be more like 12 vs 15 in favor of the defenders. Unless the general on the weaker side is one of the more powerful ones, it's pretty academic that the numbers game will favor the defenders unless the level gap between forces is too big. So, in part, I'd like to see attackers not just Leroy Jenkins their way into a fight. Just make a couple AI choices. They could wait until they're all assembled just outside the fort range and push in, split off into a couple groups and move to attack from different sides, perhaps focus on defending PCs, and so on. In general, the AI should also prioritize mobs over the forts themselves so you don't get situations where a wave of NPCs just keep beating on a fort when defenders suddenly spawn and pick them off one-by-one until something AoEs (if they even can, unlike most Quadav).

I'd also like to suggest that players get the ability to initiate a battle or call for NPC help in a zone with enough AN. Paired with fort fixes, this can make offensive battles more offensive for us while expanding the possibility of taking northern zones more often. Calling in a reserve unit when defenders are overwhelmed should also be obviously beneficial.

Meanwhile, someone else mentioned zone status should be updated daily instead of weekly. On one hand, I can see this. On the other, giving people a week to do the BC Ops is obviously beneficial to those who might not be able to play every day if the conditions happen to favor them on a day they can't play (for long durations). In general, I'd be more for the zones being broken up into multiple strategic locations where a sort of perpetual "capture the flag" is played out with ownership of these mini-bases changing dynamically while, at the end of the week, cumulative influence still weights the man base ownership. However, this system would also require the need for more Arbiters in a zone with an option to check intel status to see who owns what in a zone so people aren't running around blind and wasting their time.

I guess I'd also want to see Campaign as "always on" in the strongholds.

[Rambus]

First off, while I understand how some people can be angry about someone pulling a mob aside to solo, any kind of tag revocation if this is done is a bad thing. Sometimes people keep mobs away from the fort to keep NPCs from steamrolling them, as Campaign is fundamentally better the longer it runs. ....

They are not talking about pulling a mob away from fort a bit so you are far enough away from the npcs, they are talking about people that pull mobs across the damn map. I saw a crappy rdm kiting one in West Sarutabaruta (S) like 10 feet away from the north zone to present east saru. i would not knowen it was that far away if it was not walking around doing widescan ( bst widescan is not as strong as rng so I could not see it right away). stuff like that needs a limit, way too far.

[Karbuncle]

As I'm typing this theres a 73PLD/DNC who's been fighting a single Campaign Orc for 25 minutes and has reduced its HP by 20%. He's waaay over @ Myradrosh Spawn in E.Ronf(S) (SHOCKING I'M IN AN EXP PARTY AT 37?! I MUST BE LYING :O!)

These are the type of people commonly complained about. I know longer Battles = More Exp So i don't always care about stuff like this. but its a complaint that should be addressed. because if Campaign become popular again this issue would be common-ground.

[ShadowHeart]

i seen them pull them all the way back by the entrance where u zone in from jugner forest (s) with 3/4 of them solo'ing that is not avoiding lag thats avoiding everyone and everything so they could get there 5k xp while we all waited 20 minutes trying to find them eventually thank goodness for the beast radar that day

[Zyeriis]

First off, while I understand how some people can be angry about someone pulling a mob aside to solo, any kind of tag revocation if this is done is a bad thing. Sometimes people keep mobs away from the fort to keep NPCs from steamrolling them, as Campaign is fundamentally better the longer it runs. On the other hand, you'll also get people who lag when around a large concentation of fighting (N)PCs. Instead, the mini-radar should be tweaked so that when under Allied Tag status, you get a wide scan arrow pointing to the closest campaign mob at all times.

The addition of a confrontation status to the allied tags, would be a relatively large area/radius around the control point rather than the whole map. I took into consideration pulling enemies away from the npcs when I added this to the proposed possible solutions. There is no reason to be able to pull an enemy to the colibri camps in East Ronfaure as karbuncle pointed out. Extending the battle is fine but, only if the other people involved are still increasing their ending exp. This doesn't happen if some selfish jack wagon is holding the last enemy off in some remote location. This also ties into one of my other solutions regarding multiple control points on the map. Which if I read further into your post, you seem to support/have a similar idea.

However, I do like the idea of adding arrows to the compass to track down mobs, that is another possible solution to this problem and I will be adding it to the list.

As for the daily vs. weekly points, Besieged is based off of who controls the Astral Candy at any given time. I don't see why each zone can't be a miniature version of this system, with multiple control points (much like your capture the flag idea). It doesn't even have to be daily, it can be on a minute to minute basis, depending on victory on a specific control point in each area.

As for the BC ops, these should be available at any time, they're rewards aren't that great anymore, due to abyssea. Campaign Ops in general should be an available option from all C.A. or Allied Tags NPCs.

Guess I'll go add some of your suggestions to the growing list.

[Seriha]

Another alternative to pulling mobs too far is to occasionally ping their attention. If they're greater than 300 yalms from the fort, they'll completely drop enmity, get a temporary speed boost, and make their way back. Forcing a tag drop, especially paired with non-aggro status, could result in some unintentionally getting MPKed if they're not aware of the respective ranges. At that point, the proposition is just being a dick in reverse because some are just mad about things now.

Anyway, Campaign also needs some more incentives for people level 76+. Could be new gear sets like a +1 Teal/Perle/Aurore at 85, items you could buy for magian trials like Twilight/Daybreak Souls, and so on. I still think we should be able to learn the various campaign WS, but not all types are covered and some would require some nerfing in player-hands (AoE Doom, for example...). I would love having Uriel Blade on my RDM in Abyssea, as it would make an exceptional AoE farming WS that could be further boosted by atma you might typically expect on them.

[Flunklesnarkin]

The general's aren't impossible to kill... I've soloed a bunch of them on bst before. I'm sure other jobs can solo them too.

[Zyeriis]

Well I would assume, going too far from the battle while under a confrontation status, would, on top of losing your tags/performance exp, would make the mob de-aggro you and go back to attack the fort. I'm not sure where the MPK thing comes from though... Campaign mobs don't attack people who don't have tags, unless attacked first so, I'm a bit confused here, care to elaborate?

As for pinging their attention should the enemy go too far from the battle, that sounds more like confrontation status. The radius would be more than large enough to not overstep the bounds (there would be text warnings like there is with any confrontation status, like SCNMs). There would still be plenty of room to pull mobs away from the npcs, without the risk of losing your tags, just not be able to take the mob a mile away.

I agree on the weaponskills, they need to be learnable, though nerfed slightly for outside use. Rather than +1 teal/aurore/perle armor, there should be ways to upgrade campaign armor that is already present such as the Iron Ram set for PLD(and other jobs) as well as the accessories. Like the ability to shift some stats from "campaign only" to full-time or latent stats via +1 versions. Not fully move them mind you, as they would be OP but still, give some campaign related magian trials (i will add a new additions section for this to the solutions/suggestions in a bit, once i sort it out in my head).

[Karbuncle]

Dropping Enmity after a certain point isn't a bad idea. But it wouldn't solve the "Get Tags > run through zone aggro free" aspect if they did introduce the "Confrontation Status". Which i would hope they do. because nothing says "Woo Fun" like a Dragon face-raping you from nowhere :X

Though, If not, the Enmity drop after ~150 yalms would be better. thats still within eyeshot of the Fort.

[Seriha]

What I meant was if, say you were in Xarc, and had pulled something away from a pack of mobs. Where you ran to then put amongst a bunch of imps, demons, gigas, or whatever that wouldn't aggro you while you had tags. If by some chance the battle ended or you out-range the mob's leash, stripping you of tags would suddenly put you in aggro status for the local critters, likely resulting in a death and EXP loss, more if a raise isn't possible. The fact you can at least be aggro'd now maintains some sense of situational awareness, but the more ideal solution would be to just make sure there are no aggressive mobs within a certain range of the forts while forcing respawns on those that might be trained in.

[Zyeriis]

The removal of aggro mobs from a general radius of campaign battle is what I had in mind rather than making us immune to outside aggro with tags. The confrontation status radius could be the radius that there are no aggroing mobs in. They generally just need to remove the aggro mobs.

[ShadowHeart]

SE did mention previously that there would be adjustments not sure what as per ussual they don't release too much information normally until the last second. This seems to be changing slowly so maybe they will jump in on this to let us know what they have in store

[Krisan]

I love what's being said here, and I agree wholeheartedly with it. Campaign was a really cool idea, but even when it was still new it had its problems.. Now with the way the state of things in the game are now, all of those problems make the entire thing pretty much pointless. I hate seeing content go to waste, especially in this case.

Oh, and of everything here.. I feel I should echo out a cry for Throne Room [S] and Fiat Lux. It's remarkably sad how impossible those are now to control, and I would love nothing more than to participate in the fight for those zones again someday..

[Zyeriis]

Edit/Additions #3

1) Allied Notes (Courtesy of Seriha)
-It doesn't really need be said that Allied Notes are practically worthless these days. The armor you could get at the time, back when Campaign armors were released were quite good (especially the Iron Ram Hauberk set). Now? They're not worth the effort nor the time, and quite frankly, are useless to a level 90. This needs to be addressed.

How do we fix this? Well the most obvious way is to set things up with the current trend of the game: Magian trials. I, personally, would prefer a different way, but whatever gets the job done, gets the job done. There should be a way to get +1 versions of these pieces of gear. Have it involve new drops from campaign spoils on top of other adjustments that have been suggested in this thread. Or have it deal with other statistics in campaign such as enemy kills (this may be difficult though) or defeating enemy generals (doesn't have to be your kill, you just need to be present with allied tags when it dies). You could even tie it to campaign ops if you wanted (so long as they got some type of revamp, making them easier/quicker to start, and from more locations.)

Other solutions? Simply add tier 2 armors and equiment to Allied Notes exchange for these armor sets (or upgrade items).

You could also add upgrade items to SCNMs and SNMs to breathe some life back into other WotG content (Magian trial upgrades or otherwise).

2) Campaign Weapon Skills (Courtesy of Seriha)
-Unlike other weaponskills like trial weapons and nyzul weapons, we cannot actually learn these weaponskills. This makes little to no sense. Why can't I use Uriel Blade unless I have a specific sword? It's a weapon skill not a weapon ability. I do not particularly care about how this done but, nevertheless, it needs to be done. Otherwise, the time spent creating these weaponskills, was wasted on something that was barely used to begin with. After the horrible weaponskills we got with the rise in level cap/skill cap (i'm looking at you tachi: ageha!), we could use some good non-magian trial weapon/relic weapon skills to learn. Campaign weapon skills is a good place to start.

You can even tie this into the previous solution/problem regarding Allied Notes, by first releasing more weapons (for every job) via Allied Notes/Campaign and then allowing these weapon skills to be unlocked full time for every weapon through some way or another in WotG. Make these weaponskills proc-possible in abyssea and people will be clamoring to do campaign again to get them.

[Neika]

Wow there are a ton of good ideas in this thread! I too used to enjoy Campaigne, and am sad that there is now really no point for players to do it. Even something as simple as adding skill ups would be awesome! Hopefully a rep will see this and pass on all these amazing ideas to the developers and we can all start enjoying Campaigne again!

[Neonii]

I think maybe allowing cool items exclusive to campaign like unique furniture ect to drop would be nice. I also like the idea of rare hard to get spells dropping here. I love the idea of being a general. And yes up xp and allow skill-ups to make campaign able to compete with abyssea. Really cool exclusive drops would be awesome. I really miss campaign was one of my favorite activities.

[Sparthos]

Some Campaign zones should be retooled for lowbie EXP.

[ShadowHeart]

i like the lowbie area idea for campaign but it would have to then be set for level cap or high lvl would come in and rape it for drops

[Zyeriis]

Edits/Additions #4

1) Entertainment, Temporary Items, and Controlling the flow of Battle (Inspired by Airget)
-This is slightly similar to the idea Airget proposed on the first page of the thread. In essence, it's focused on calling forth/lightly controlling NPC fighters to turn the tide of battle, primarily on offense. The temporary items we could get from campaign have always been extremely limited. With the rise of abyssea, temp items became a far more widely used part of the game. While campaign is limited to items based upon people doing Campaign Ops (which I've already been over as being too much of a hassle for too little reward). There needs to be static temp items to get from Allied Tag NPCs. How to do this?

My idea for giving some slight degree of NPC movement to player's is via these proposed static temp items. Give us a target marker/flare type of temp item we can use on fortifications and enemy generals. Causing NPCs within a certain radius to engage that target. This solution is multi-faceted. It also allows players to fight the other enemies in battle, without having to worry about NPCs interfering and lowering the end result amount of exp. It would also add a degree of tactical prowess to campaign. Naturally, the amount of flares/markers you could carry/obtain per battle would be based upon your current medal. The use of flares/markers as a "General" of sorts, would grant some type of "Command Aura" or exp rate boost.

There are likely many more temp items to control the flow of battle that could be added under this concept. Temp items to summon extra NPC fighters, specific squads such as Healing Squads, or Bombing Squads. These temp items could even breach the realm of iniating battles by summoning a specific squad to the field, rather than having to wait for a battle to start or arriving as soon as one ends.

2) Low Level Campaign Battles (Courtesy of Sparthos and ShadowHeart)
-This could easily tie into the multiple control points in each area. Allow the satellite camps/defensive points to be level capped. Not all Orcs are 75+, why should they be in Campaign? This would add some color to the lower levels and make campaign a bit more relevant in the process. Of course, it doesn't need to be implemented on a satellite base idea but it seems like the more logical choice, as to not upset the primary campaign battles at the current primary objective tower/control points already present in the game.

Adding lower level gear as well as new 80+ gear to AN item exchange would be appreciated as well. Some gear you can get for lower levels, without the now luck-based auction house having a decent piece of armor for sale at any given time would solve another in-game problem (lack of stuff on auction house).

--Additions #1 (Courtesy of Seriha)
Adding such battles to campaign should not interfere with the primary battles in campaign. As these battles would take place at a different point on the map, where the enemy will only send lower level enemies to complete less important tasks such as capturing supply routes and the like. Also, the battles would be designed, depending on area, for the levels 40-60. However, it would be possible to at least do something around level 30 (though the enemies would be much stronger than a level 30). This idea is in no way meant for anyone below level 30, nor above level 60. It is also proposed that the battles for these points on the map, be level capped at 60 (depending on the area) much like a garrison or expeditionary force.

[Karbuncle]

Also, in the (S) Era, A lot of the Orcs are 75+ >.>

The way i understand it, Back in the Campaign-Era, beastmen were much more powerful, It wouldn't make sense having a bunch of level 20 beastmen "Terrorizing" the 4 Great Nations of Vana'diel.

While i like the idea of Low-level Campaign scenarios, From a story-standpoint, I see it hard to explain.

[Sparthos]

Also, in the (S) Era, A lot of the Orcs are 75+ >.>

The way i understand it, Back in the Campaign-Era, beastmen were much more powerful, It wouldn't make sense having a bunch of level 20 beastmen "Terrorizing" the 4 Great Nations of Vana'diel.

While i like the idea of Low-level Campaign scenarios, From a story-standpoint, I see it hard to explain.

From a story standpoint, why wouldn't it be? Not every army is made up of seasoned troops and thus the low level monsters represent the cannon fodder of the beastmen confederate.

The war has dragged on and thus both sides are now throwing whatever they have and the kitchen sink in order to continue battling. From the official WOTG standpoint, the beastmen have already lost anyway. Naturally who'd be left over would be the weaker and less experienced soldiers drafted into service.

Also another addition to Campaign should be simple temp item packs for purchase at all times. Simple potion pack, enhancement pack, enfeebling pack etc for one set cost from the NPC.

[Karbuncle]

From a story standpoint, why wouldn't it be? Not every army is made up of seasoned troops and thus the low level monsters represent the cannon fodder of the beastmen confederate.

The war has dragged on and thus both sides are now throwing whatever they have and the kitchen sink in order to continue battling. From the official WOTG standpoint, the beastmen have already lost anyway. Naturally who'd be left over would be the weaker and less experienced soldiers drafted into service.

Also another addition to Campaign should be simple temp item packs for purchase at all times. Simple potion pack, enhancement pack, enfeebling pack etc for one set cost from the NPC.

Hmmm, Perhaps.
I still think being able to pick up any level 25 job and go slay beastmen Armies in the Shadow-Reign era would kinda 'Cheapen' the feel of it being the biggest war on the continent. When i heard of the War, before WoTG, it made it sound like it was one of the biggest wars/threats to on the entire Continent, and that the war was very close (hence the alternate reality when we actually did lose that WOTG Reveals). adding in "They were throwing out-of-the-womb lv. 20 orcs at bastok" kinda just cheapens it in my eyes, Cause i never got the feeling that "The 4 Nations we're curb-stomping them hardcore" it felt more like "It was a long drawn-out-war with both sides reaching their limit". tossing Baby-orc(exaggerating) on the field just didn't feel like what was being told.


However, if you look at it that way i suppose it makes a little sense, enough that I wouldn't mind it implemented. I know people tend to turn the other cheek when it comes to time travel. plus it would really help some low level players if the Exp was good enough, and you could skill up.

[Zyeriis]

My solution doesn't involve removing the 75+ hordes but it was more of adding tiny, lower leveled orcs to attack less important positions in the map. They would be helping the primary forces but alone they wouldn't be a threat. Think of them as cannon fodder. Other than that, yes level 25 is too low. At the very minimum it would be level 30s (as in what level 60s are to the current campaign mobs).

[Seriha]

A grander lowbie EXP event could be achieved by tweaking Expeditionary Forces or Garrison. Campaign being for the 60+ crowd is fine.

[Zyeriis]

A grander lowbie EXP event could be achieved by tweaking Expeditionary Forces or Garrison. Campaign being for the 60+ crowd is fine.

This is also a solution (to a non-campaign related problem) but, this thread is focused entirely upon ways to improve campaign. Which adding satellite capture points for lower levels would be able to do. Though, it is merely a suggestion.

[Seriha]

Thing is, the level ranges in the WotG zones greatly vary. Likr in Saru(S) you'll have level 11ish mobs near Windurst, while closer to Giddeus you'd find level 60+ Yagudo with things like Ochu and such somewhere in between. So sure, maybe you could have a "Level 10 Campaign" satellite in each of the past stater zones, but then you'd need a 20 in the next set, a 30 in another, and so on. The events I mentioned already have that distinction, and on top of that, they're triggered by the players. Depending on how similar this would be to the rest of Campaign, you could be looking at situations where the lowbies will be waiting around for a satellite post to be active to go about their way. Heavy congestion could, in turn, make these less rewarding for everyone.

[Zyeriis]

Hmm, well, like I said, 30 would be the absolute minimum, and even then, they'd get destroyed by the mobs should they get attacked. These satellite battles would be tuned to 40~55. You know, the pain in the ass levels. Was true pre-abyssea, still true post-abyssea (unless you get leeched through them).

Anyway, I don't see why both couldn't be get upgrades. 10-40ish updates for garrison/expeditionary force and 40-55~ updates for campaign. 40ish battles taking place in gusta/ronfaure/saruta, then getting progessively harder in other places (no lower level battles in cities/strongholds including garliage/eldieme/crawler's).

As for congestion, that generally has to deal with upping the rate of campaign in general to be sparkable at any time.

[Seriha]

Problem is, if you start removing zones from the pool for level 60+ players to pander to those lower, you are forcing them into a smaller pool that could translate to fewer overall battles that end more quickly if Campaign is active. Now, this might not be an issue if cumulative changes are built around this dynamic, but the further we deviate from the event in its current state, perhaps the less likely you'd see any change at all. Things like multiplying EXP/AN rewards, putting more loot in Union pools, or adding things you can buy with AN are the easier tweaks.

[Zyeriis]

? I thought I said that the primary battle would still be the main tower defense point. That's where the bulk/stronger mobs will be. Never said anything about removing current towers for 60+, regardless of zone. The idea is other, albeit less-important, strategic points on the map in those areas, where weaker beastmen will attack. It is an addition only, nothing in it's current state would be lost.

[Zyeriis]

Added information about what was just discussed to Part 4 of the Edits/Additions to the list.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5597-Campaign-Improvements-What-it-could-and-should-be.?p=76561#post76561

For those interested.

[Zyeriis]

Anyone else have some ideas? Alternative solutions are welcome. You do not have to read the entire thing. That is why I bolded individual points. If you wish to focus on a specific point (like exp), feel free. I'll mull over any suggestions that haven't been said already (yes, this is a bump, I want a dev/mod/rep to comment on this/get this qualified as a "hot topic").

[Camate]

While specific adjustments to Campaign weren’t listed on the 2011 FINAL FANTASY XI Roadmap, rest assured that we will continue to make changes and adjustments to the system going forward.

[Zyeriis]

:(
I was expecting a more definitive response.

There wasn't any real info there, especially not regarding any of the ideas thought of in the thread.

/disappointed

Edit: The response also does not specify that even if it wasn't in the road map, whether it is planned to happen anytime soon. Which only leaves me wondering: when?

If it's too long down the road, that's extremely disappointing.

[ShadowHeart]

MORE INFORMATION SE lol

always so vague and with holding.... we know u don't like to share too much info before hand but those days should be in the past by now come to the present and be more informative on posts like this and others :s

a lot of us hate the lack of clarity or information.

[Trollinthedungeon]

Who cares? We don't need spoon fed updates daily people. Stop asking for too much too fast.

[Zyeriis]

Asking for too much?

They didn't tell us anything. If too much = anything, I'm sorry?

[ShadowHeart]

too much too fast i only been playing going on 7 years XD yes that name fits ur posts troll patrol / mule much... lmao

SE has always been lacking transparency and information I was just stating that it would be nice to have early and more concise information about what is going to be coming.

[Karbuncle]

I think telling us they have something planned gives us something to look forward too.

Look for the Update notes :D

[Twille]

They need to strip Caimpaign down to the bones and restructure it. All the various ways to gain exp and the caps on each of them do NOT encourage team work, nor any real drive to "win" a battle, it only encourages people to milk specific aspects and ignore the rest.
They need to allow skill ups, disallowing skill ups is just retarded.
There need to be significant benefits to successfully defending an area, benefits that increase depending on how quickly the enemies were defeated. Same for taking new areas.
I'm not that versed in Campaign to be honest, but its obvious that it needs to be restructured if SE wants to see any player interest in it ever again.

[Kimara]

SE likes to be mysterious <.< >.> Rawr!

[Runespider]

If they gave you all the information there would be very little to talk about, they do it on purpose and it's probably a good thing.

[Zyeriis]

:/ They gave us no information, thus nothing more to talk about (other than the total lack of information). They didn't even comment on the ideas :/

[Runespider]

Well the staff that work here are employed to basically just work with us they don't know anything about the development of the game aside from what they talk to them specifically about. Campaign isn't on the schedule to be worked on yet (if ever) so they can't really say that much I guess.

Dev team are like any job, they can only make good comments on whatever it is they are currently working on really.

I loved Campaign and would like to see it updated, skillups, never losing your medal, more xp, higher level mobs, far less chasing battles (going to a zone only for it to end) etc but when Campaign isn't on the list of updates I doubt it will happen or be seriously commented on anytime soon.

[Ethereal]

Well the staff that work here are employed to basically just work with us they don't know anything about the development of the game aside from what they talk to them specifically about. Campaign isn't on the schedule to be worked on yet (if ever) so they can't really say that much I guess.

Dev team are like any job, they can only make good comments on whatever it is they are currently working on really.

I loved Campaign and would like to see it updated, skillups, never losing your medal, more xp, higher level mobs, far less chasing battles (going to a zone only for it to end) etc but when Campaign isn't on the list of updates I doubt it will happen or be seriously commented on anytime soon.

This, shouldn't lose your medal, there's so much other stuff added to the game now that it's hardly feasible to spend the time needed to maintain your medal. Especially if you stand around a lot of the time waiting for it to start. The fact that you lose it turns me off to the idea of even doing campaign anymore, i just avoid the npc entirely so i dont lose more medals than i already have.

[ShadowHeart]

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/6291/detail.html

c/p

Q: It seems to me Campaign hasn't been seeing much version update action lately, like a reliable if wrinkly veteran replaced by young blood on the battlefront. Are Campaign's glory days over, or are there still plans to breathe new life into the system?

A: We would like to reassure players that Campaign's leal service has not gone unnoticed, nor the fortitude born of experience that this grizzled veteran brings to the battlefield. Various adjustments are in the pipes for the trusty system, some of which are scheduled for the upcoming major version update. c/p

this was stated back in beginning of march so there are supposedly updates to be done this update for this unless they became sidetracked along the way with messing with BB drops etc lol

[xbobx]

Sad that WOTG was such a disaster of an expansion. Campaign was one of the onlyl things good about that expansion along with the two jobs. Campaign is not near useless, which makes WOTG nothing.

[Scuro]

The only way people will do Campaign again is if.... The max Exp achievable was like 10k for the end of every campaign battle rather then the 2-4k, if you could earn exp off of hitting walls, rather then the cheap 200 exp after 3 hours..... Seriously, that was a terrible idea. Now there is no incentive to claim areas. The last thing, allow us to skill up in campaign, this is the most important. Honestly, campaign would come back with a vengeance if we could skill up in it. Lets face it, anything else you will do with this system, will be mute in comparison to the points i just named. If you can make campaign give skill ups, you can have Abyssea be the means of exp, and Campaign the means for skill ups. Please think this through SE, I was a long time fan of Campaign, being a BLU where campaign was the only means to merit except solo'n. So I understand the system better then most adventurers, and I haven't done campaign in a while since Abyssea peaked, I would like to see these things implemented to bring back campaign!

[Karbuncle]

God i wanna quote that for truth but too lazy to edit it all out so i'll say it again

for the love of all that is holy/evil (w/e floats your boat) Please remove the stupid Fortification Exp Nerf. Its no longer relevant.

PLEASE DON'T FORGET TO DO IT!

PLEASE!

[Azul]

I definitely agree that the experience nerf should be removed I find it boring to go a beastmen controlled area seeing npcs hitting walls and then later leave causing the battle to be over giving to me between 0-200 exp.

I know this maybe minor but could be possible to implement a siege weapon for players to use/build in offensive battles. The beastmen have a turret used to fire at fort. I find it very difficult to believe that the three nations are not able to build some weapon to attack forts or to keep the enemy troops at bay. Another minor thing I found is that the Campaign Op for npc training should be adjusted for 1 person instead of three. I don't think you need three ppl to train one person imo.

[Camate]

I understand everyone's desire to hear more information on how Campaign will be adjusted, however, the development team is putting all of their time and energy into preparing for the upcoming version update. We'll be sure to provide you with any new information on Campaign-related adjustments as soon as we know more.

[Zyeriis]

I understand everyone's desire to hear more information on how Campaign will be adjusted, however, the development team is putting all of their time and energy into preparing for the upcoming version update. We'll be sure to provide you with any new information on Campaign-related adjustments as soon as we know more.

Fair enough.

[Coldbrand]

I understand everyone's desire to hear more information on how Campaign will be adjusted, however, the development team is putting all of their time and energy into preparing for the upcoming version update. We'll be sure to provide you with any new information on Campaign-related adjustments as soon as we know more.
Couldn't you at least throw a piece of gear or two into the items obtainable from campaign at some level so that you MIGHT begin to revitalize campaign? Seriously, I feel cheated out of my money since the main sell of that expansion is completely dead right now.

[Krisan]

Couldn't you at least throw a piece of gear or two into the items obtainable from campaign at some level so that you MIGHT begin to revitalize campaign? Seriously, I feel cheated out of my money since the main sell of that expansion is completely dead right now.
Honestly, DNC and SCH merit the cost of WotG. They are some of the best subjobs in the game, for a variety of things. (They can be situational at times, but they're still kickass subs.)

[Harukusan]

Honestly, DNC and SCH merit the cost of WotG. They are some of the best subjobs in the game, for a variety of things. (They can be situational at times, but they're still kickass subs.)

that's a terrible reason to spend the extra money. I bought the expansion and others before that for storyline content and enjoyable new main jobs. these jobs all suck ass. DNC might be cool occasionally, just don't solo anything when I'm trying to kill the same NM in forced-pop situations. Stop wearing the pink crap and DD better.

[kaht]

Seriously, I feel cheated out of my money since the main sell of that expansion is completely dead right now.

Did you just pick up the expansion, or did you buy it when it came out?

If you bought it when it came out, how much time did you spend getting xp in campaign?

Let's assume you spent around 50 hours getting xp in campaign. Most people I know spent way more time than that, but for the sake of the argument, let's assume 50 hours. When was the last time you got 50 hours of playtime out of a video game for $30 (again, assuming you bought the xpac when it was first released), and felt you were cheated?

These days it's not uncommon to buy a video game for a console for 40 or 50 dollars, and play it or 20 hours before you beat it and are done with it. You likely got a lot more time out of campaign (and/or the wotg missions) for your $30 (or less if you didn't buy it at release), so complaining that you feel cheated out of your money is just an empty argument.

Put things in perspective. You likely got your money's worth years ago for the money you spent on that xpac.

[Shoko]

Couldn't you at least throw a piece of gear or two into the items obtainable from campaign at some level so that you MIGHT begin to revitalize campaign? Seriously, I feel cheated out of my money since the main sell of that expansion is completely dead right now.

Actually if you played a good deal, you got your money's worth. It's time to move on from that content and get better shinies. Or you can hope some of the WoTG content will be augmentable. Most items outside of the Rose Strap and Strum's Report were gimmick campaign only items anyways.

[PizzaTheHut]

Seriously, I feel cheated out of my money since the main sell of that expansion is completely dead right now.

The main sell of any expansion is new jobs.

[ShadowHeart]

I understand everyone's desire to hear more information on how Campaign will be adjusted, however, the development team is putting all of their time and energy into preparing for the upcoming version update. We'll be sure to provide you with any new information on Campaign-related adjustments as soon as we know more.


ohoh we all had the idea SE didn't know what was really going on :p

[Daremo]

For me, the main selling point of an expansion is the story line. I'm going through WoTG's now, and it kind of rocks. So far, I'm ranking it second behind CoP's. It probably helps a lot that I'm doing it all at once, mostly, rather than with months between segments.

[Zyeriis]

Well it is true that the main selling point, that SE advertised, was indeed campaign. However, while I agree that campaign needs to be revamped to meet today's standards (which is obvious as I started the thread), there are still many other things in WotG such as the missions, jobs, quests, 3 new areas (though this is a poor amount), NMs (Sandworm, Ixion, etc.), and plenty of pieces of useful equipment. You may not personally view those as useful/worth the money but they are there nonetheless, and are a part of what you paid for.

[Charismatic]

The main sell of any expansion is new jobs.

Except ones like Chains of Promathia that didn't have any new jobs..? (and was the best xpac btw)

[Sagian]

I understand everyone's desire to hear more information on how Campaign will be adjusted, however, the development team is putting all of their time and energy into preparing for the upcoming version update. We'll be sure to provide you with any new information on Campaign-related adjustments as soon as we know more.

Some Campaign-related adjustments really need to be IN the upcoming version update.

[Karbuncle]

Except ones like Chains of Promathia that didn't have any new jobs..? (and was the best xpac btw)

I personally thought ToAU Was the best Expansion. In the end it offered the most Endgame Content, Some of the best systems (Assault, Nyzul, ZNM (minus stupid pictures)) and made Exp slightly more bearable.

CoP Offered an amazingly fun storyline and great memorable battles. but ToAU in the end brought the most "Content" to the game, Even if it was spread out. Einherjar, Salvage, Assaults, Nyzul, ZNM, etc.

So it being the best is more of an opinion (but on your side, So is"The main sell of any expansion is new jobs", cause thats opinion top)

[Glamdring]

I understand everyone's desire to hear more information on how Campaign will be adjusted, however, the development team is putting all of their time and energy into preparing for the upcoming version update. We'll be sure to provide you with any new information on Campaign-related adjustments as soon as we know more.

Concentrate on getting what you're adding in a few days right, we'll deal with future updates as they become contemplated.

[ShadowHeart]

Some Campaign-related adjustments really need to be IN the upcoming version update.

i agree and hoping for more news about this upcoming update and campaign i love the battles and story
they mentioned before on the official website before their official forums and the disaster which may have placed things on hold that there was scheduled updates to campaign this upcoming update but no word since

www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/6291/detail.html

[Kjara]

Auto-reraise at the end of campaign battle PLEASE
I'm tired of having to HP and lose all the campaign exp because I fell before the end, with either no one else in zone or no one that could see/bother to raise me! NPCs will just warp away and leave me there ; ;

[ShadowHeart]

auto reraise would be very nice!!

[Daremo]

To go back to the original topic for a moment, there is something I'd like to see: the 3 person requirement on certain campaign ops dropped. Even when campaign was at it's peak, finding 2 other people to do training ops and some others was like pulling teeth. Now it's not even a possibility. I'd like to be able to raise the level of my city's troops and healers again.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

While specific adjustments to Campaign weren’t listed on the 2011 FINAL FANTASY XI Roadmap, rest assured that we will continue to make changes and adjustments to the system going forward.
I was expecting a more definitive response.He's saying the the "roadmap" is not a set thing and will be subject to change.

[Olor]

jagidbod's warmachine

I like your post generally, but what is so hard about this? I mean I couldn't have soloed it, but I attacked it cause I was too stupid to know it was an NM and

a) it was ridiculously easy to kite while I was waiting on my call bst timer
b) once a few players started bashing it, and healing those who were bashing it, it was no problem

Now some of the yag NMs.... those are ridiculous.

[Olor]

--Alteration/Other Solution #2 (Courtesy of Karbuncle)
Change Unions to be based upon your rank in overall performance during a battle. No more registering. Automatically place us, based on performance in the corresponding tier of unions, so that we don't have to lot against some one who joined during the last 5 minutes of the battle.



This, and could you also make it so a hit with a pet counts as a kill for the purpose of spoils?

Also, I've stopped joining unions because it seems like my tag will NOT wear for like 5 mins after a battle. Since I spend money on jugs I often will want to stick around in a zone and farm a bit with the pet I called, and it is really annoying to be stuck standing around waiting for my tags to wear. This only happens when I join a union.

[Zyeriis]

I like your post generally, but what is so hard about this? I mean I couldn't have soloed it, but I attacked it cause I was too stupid to know it was an NM and

a) it was ridiculously easy to kite while I was waiting on my call bst timer
b) once a few players started bashing it, and healing those who were bashing it, it was no problem

Now some of the yag NMs.... those are ridiculous.

The warmachine gets harder the more people there are trying to fight it. It is a genocide machine in the sense that if a lot of people are feeding it tp, it will be spamming AoE damage, and it will floor a lot of people. The less people you have, the greater your chance of survival against this General. Allied NPCs can make fighting him a pain as well because more attackers = more TP spam from him.

In which case, if Campaign were to get upgraded enough to be more popular again (the recent update was nice but it's not nearly enough), he would become something to fear more often. I tend to stay away from him unless he's the only enemy left or I see just a handful of people fighting it, away from the NPCs/tower.

[axlzero]

i read the first few post then decided to put in my own 2 cents.

first of all campain has major flaws, lack of tatical common scence is one of them. How is it beastmen can attack a zone far behind enemy lines without getting spotted or attacked moveing though other zones? If you ask me zones should not be able to be attacked unless the ajacent zone is under control by the attacking party. you fix this problem and campain will be more predictable each army should appear in there home base in different spots when not on the offensive resting or recovering from being pushed back or defeated. when they are ready they either move out on foot and move through each zone til they get to there objective zone they can be attacked along the way by mobs in that zone (if nation npc)or by players (if beastmen). once they enter a zone that belongs to the enemy they will start a campain battle. the goals are simple beastmen armies will try and take there opposite numbers and allied will do the same when one of the beastmen strongholds is taken they will either fall back to the northlands and try to retake there home base with assistance of the northlands beastmen mobs. If all three nations have beaten back there beastmen enemy then they will all be in the northlands but cannont attack other places unless connected. if you manage to take beaucidine glacier then they are pinned in can only either attack glacier or defend xarcabard but every beastmen army will be either attacking or defending makeing it hard but at the same time all allied armies will be attacking and defending. personally all my suggestion is doing is copying from besiged the enemy armies move though zones before they get to al zambi this is the same thing but on a larger scale

[Zyeriis]

To be fair, Beastmen are just as capable at warping as we are. I would assume thats how they get to and from the battlefield (i know thats how they leave anyway). Considering we can use Arbiters to warp ourselves to any of the areas that we've visited in the past (regardless of which side controls it), I would assume the beastmen would also be capable of such a feat, they can use magic as well after all.