Question about Treasure Hunter, Aurix and Dynamis Divergence!

[Gwydion]

Hello SE!
Lots of rumors are going around about how Treasure Hunter works in Dynamis Divergence, given how rare Volte armor pieces are. This is especially true after Aurix is killed in Wave 1 and Wave 2. My questions:

1.) Is Treasure Hunter locked at level 8 in Dynamis Divergense?
2.) Does killing Aurix in Wave 1 increase this cap from 8 to 9?
3.) Does killing Aurix in Wave 2 increase this cap from 9 to 10?

If all of my questions above are answered with "No", then how does Treasure Hunter work in Dynamis Divergence with respect to Volte pieces? Does Aurix serve any purpose beyond extra medals/cards to drop?

Thank you!

[Gwydion]

Bump please.

[Alhanelem]

You don't really need to bump threads in a forum that moves at the speed of molasses.

I'm not a thief, but I'm nor aware of TH working differently in dynamis D vs anywhere else. That doesn't mean it doesn't, but i'm not aware of any special rules, or any special hidden purpose of the monster in quesiton.

[Sicycre]

Hello SE!
Lots of rumors are going around about how Treasure Hunter works in Dynamis Divergence, given how rare Volte armor pieces are. This is especially true after Aurix is killed in Wave 1 and Wave 2. My questions:

1.) Is Treasure Hunter locked at level 8 in Dynamis Divergense?
2.) Does killing Aurix in Wave 1 increase this cap from 8 to 9?
3.) Does killing Aurix in Wave 2 increase this cap from 9 to 10?

If all of my questions above are answered with "No", then how does Treasure Hunter work in Dynamis Divergence with respect to Volte pieces? Does Aurix serve any purpose beyond extra medals/cards to drop?

Thank you!

Hello, Gwydion!

Thanks for your inquiry!

We wanted to confirm some information concerning Treasure Hunter, in general:
• The maximum value you can achieve is 8. This can be obtained through equipment, job traits, and Atma.
• If Treasure Hunter activates while attacking, it adds +1 each time, up to a value of 12.
• With the above factors considered and combining them with the Job Gift that increases Treasure Hunter's effectiveness, you can achieve up to +14.

With these in mind, there should not be any Treasure Hunter differences regarding notorious monsters or monsters in general found within Dynamis – Divergence.

[Gwydion]

Hello, Gwydion!

Thanks for your inquiry!

We wanted to confirm some information concerning Treasure Hunter, in general:
• The maximum value you can achieve is 8. This can be obtained through equipment, job traits, and Atma.
• If Treasure Hunter activates while attacking, it adds +1 each time, up to a value of 12.
• With the above factors considered and combining them with the Job Gift that increases Treasure Hunter's effectiveness, you can achieve up to +14.

With these in mind, there should not be any Treasure Hunter differences regarding notorious monsters or monsters in general found within Dynamis – Divergence.

Thank you so much for replying and in such great detail. Your hard work is greatly appreciated!

If you could please consider increasing the drop rate of all Volte pieces for the next Dynamis divergence campaign, that would be amazing! :)

[Alhanelem]

Thank you so much for replying and in such great detail. Your hard work is greatly appreciated!

If you could please consider increasing the drop rate of all Volte pieces for the next Dynamis divergence campaign, that would be amazing! :)


Good luck with that one. :p They're information suppliers, but not miracle workers >.> (well, not always)

[Gwydion]

Good luck with that one. :p They're information suppliers, but not miracle workers >.> (well, not always)

One can dream!

[Gwydion]

As it stands now, there is some debate on the significance of Treasure Hunter levels 1-4 vs higher values of Treasure Hunter. (People are arguing over where using a party slot of Thief (TH8-12,13,14) is worth the effort or worth taking up a party slot.

Could you tell us how TH1-4 contributes to the increased drop-rate of an item? Could you compare this to Treasure Hunter levels 8-14? At the very least, if you could tell us if each level of TH is a uniform increase, that would be a huge help.

My guess: Is each Treasure Hunter level a "roll" at getting a certain item with a %-drop rate to appear in the treasure pool? i.e. TH8 is 8 rolls at item with some-percentage drop-rate to occupy a slot in the treasure pool?

OR

Does TH1-4 contribute to an increased change of said item dropping? Does TH8+ further increase those chances, but considerably less than TH1-4?

Thank you.

[Isola]

I would love the official word on it from them.

I can tell you though that TH1 and TH2 are significant increases, and TH3-14 are insignificant increases. The difference in TH4 (no THF) and TH8 (THF but no effort to raise base level) is a wash. 8 is higher than 4 but it is insignificantly higher.

[Gwydion]

I would love the official word on it from them.

I can tell you though that TH1 and TH2 are significant increases, and TH3-14 are insignificant increases. The difference in TH4 (no THF) and TH8 (THF but no effort to raise base level) is a wash. 8 is higher than 4 but it is insignificantly higher.

I too would love an official answer as well. Please like my question and hopefully they will answer it again. I think we should have have small glimpse into what Treasure Hunter 8-14 brings to the table (and help us decide if we should absolutely include a THF, or perhaps kill slower to proc TH 12, 13 or 14).

Please help us, SE.

[Isola]

Honestly I would prefer they just go ahead and lie about 8-14 cause the last thing I want is people killing everything slower for 1% drop increases.

More, faster, with 8 is better than less, slow, with 12-14

[Alhanelem]

As it stands now, there is some debate on the significance of Treasure Hunter levels 1-4 vs higher values of Treasure Hunter. (People are arguing over where using a party slot of Thief (TH8-12,13,14) is worth the effort or worth taking up a party slot.

Could you tell us how TH1-4 contributes to the increased drop-rate of an item? Could you compare this to Treasure Hunter levels 8-14? At the very least, if you could tell us if each level of TH is a uniform increase, that would be a huge help.

My guess: Is each Treasure Hunter level a "roll" at getting a certain item with a %-drop rate to appear in the treasure pool? i.e. TH8 is 8 rolls at item with some-percentage drop-rate to occupy a slot in the treasure pool?

OR

Does TH1-4 contribute to an increased change of said item dropping? Does TH8+ further increase those chances, but considerably less than TH1-4?

Thank you.



Honestly I would prefer they just go ahead and lie about 8-14 cause the last thing I want is people killing everything slower for 1% drop increases.

More, faster, with 8 is better than less, slow, with 12-14
Frankly if TH is the only reason to consider allowing a THF in content, then it better be getting a good balance update soon.

I'd like to see other people say if THF is really as bad as these people are implying. Or is this purely about slowing down deliberately to proc higher levels of TH?

[Isola]

Have you never seen people get totally naked except TH gear and fight KB. I have. They turn a 60 second fight into a 20 minute wtfshow. Ignoring the fact that TH does nothing for Dring, what they're doing is absolutely unacceptable. There is no excuse for that.

Most of the time, THF is strictly brought for TH. They aren't exceptionally sturdy, or powerful (theyre fine, just not exceptional) and the "enmity master" role they're supposed to have is VERY lacking.

[Alhanelem]

Have you never seen people get totally naked except TH gear and fight KB. I have. They turn a 60 second fight into a 20 minute wtfshow. Ignoring the fact that TH does nothing for Dring, what they're doing is absolutely unacceptable. There is no excuse for that.

Most of the time, THF is strictly brought for TH. They aren't exceptionally sturdy, or powerful (theyre fine, just not exceptional) and the "enmity master" role they're supposed to have is VERY lacking.
Your example isn't a very good one- That's just being lazy- it doesn't say anything about THF's actual usefulness (or lack thereof).

Again though, if that's actually the problem, then it's something that needs to be addressed in a balance update.

[TrustfundBaby]

As it stands now, there is some debate on the significance of Treasure Hunter levels 1-4 vs higher values of Treasure Hunter. (People are arguing over where using a party slot of Thief (TH8-12,13,14) is worth the effort or worth taking up a party slot.

Could you tell us how TH1-4 contributes to the increased drop-rate of an item? Could you compare this to Treasure Hunter levels 8-14? At the very least, if you could tell us if each level of TH is a uniform increase, that would be a huge help.

My guess: Is each Treasure Hunter level a "roll" at getting a certain item with a %-drop rate to appear in the treasure pool? i.e. TH8 is 8 rolls at item with some-percentage drop-rate to occupy a slot in the treasure pool?

OR

Does TH1-4 contribute to an increased change of said item dropping? Does TH8+ further increase those chances, but considerably less than TH1-4?

Thank you.

Hi SE, if it's not too much trouble, can you answer Gwydion's question and help us understand the differences between lower and higher levels of Treasure Hunter?

[Alhanelem]

Wasn't it previously explained that more treasure hunter basically means more rolls for drop slots that aren't fixed?

[Gwydion]

Wasn't it previously explained that more treasure hunter basically means more rolls for drop slots that aren't fixed?

Please stop de-railing this thread.

[Alhanelem]

Please stop de-railing this thread.
How am I derailing this thread? If anything, trying to accuse me of this and engage me is more of a derail than talking about treasure hunter in a treasure hunter thread. But maybe I'm crazy here.

Perhaps next time you shouldn't derail a thread by accusing people of derailing threads when they haven't.

[Gwydion]

Bump please. Thanks SE

[Alhanelem]

Bump please. Thanks SEBecause "bumping" a thread that's already at the top of a forum section ever did anything. :p

Don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to complain about what you think its an off topic post (even if it isnt) when you then proceed to make a post yourself that adds nothing to the thread?

[Gwydion]

Because "bumping" a thread that's already at the top of a forum section ever did anything. :p

Don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to complain about what you think its an off topic post (even if it isnt) when you then proceed to make a post yourself that adds nothing to the thread?

Bumping a thread displays it under "New Posts" which shows updated threads of the last 24 hours.

Also I went ahead and did Lady Lilith on Easy and was able proc TH14 in 11.5 minutes. Yet another situation where my faith in Treasure Hunter is weakened:

https://i.imgur.com/26MBFqx.png

Apologies for the poor crop-job, the TH14 proc and the kill were not close enough to fit on the same screenshot, so I merged the two screenshots (albeit, poorly).

I really wish SE would elaborate on the various levels of Treasure Hunter.

[Gwydion]

Bumpity bump bump.

[Alhanelem]

I really dont know where you're getting the idea that "new posts" with no new content is going to get the attention of anybody at SE.

[Voidstorm]

Sorry to derail; free bump I guess.
I'd personally like to see the cap increased for all jobs to TH12. THF can proc to 14 quickly instead of by taking forever or getting extremely lucky.
It's very difficult for any non-thf to get all that high a TH without some very rare items or augments. It would however take the focus of thief off of just being brought in for TH instead using it for its other skills instead.

now back to the question needing answered for this thread:

As it stands now, there is some debate on the significance of Treasure Hunter levels 1-4 vs higher values of Treasure Hunter. (People are arguing over where using a party slot of Thief (TH8-12,13,14) is worth the effort or worth taking up a party slot.

Could you tell us how TH1-4 contributes to the increased drop-rate of an item? Could you compare this to Treasure Hunter levels 8-14? At the very least, if you could tell us if each level of TH is a uniform increase, that would be a huge help.

My guess: Is each Treasure Hunter level a "roll" at getting a certain item with a %-drop rate to appear in the treasure pool? i.e. TH8 is 8 rolls at item with some-percentage drop-rate to occupy a slot in the treasure pool?

OR

Does TH1-4 contribute to an increased change of said item dropping? Does TH8+ further increase those chances, but considerably less than TH1-4?

Thank you.

[Isola]

Sorry to derail; free bump I guess.
I'd personally like to see the cap increased for all jobs to TH12. THF can proc to 14 quickly instead of by taking forever or getting extremely lucky.
It's very difficult for any non-thf to get all that high a TH without some very rare items or augments. It would however take the focus of thief off of just being brought in for TH instead using it for its other skills instead.

now back to the question needing answered for this thread:

How about no. TH4 is sufficient, infact too high as it is. It would not 'take the focus off of thf' it would remove thf from the game.

[Alhanelem]

How about no. TH4 is sufficient, infact too high as it is. It would not 'take the focus off of thf' it would remove thf from the game.
Unless something smart happened like THF actually being worth using for anything other than TH.

[Gwydion]

I would also like to see a unique visual cue to indicate that Treasure Hunter has proc'ed on a monster, during battle. Currently, this visual effect matches the Additional Effect of Weapons/Runes/Ranged Ammo (like Scout's Bolts) and has been very confusing since inception. :(

[Sicycre]

Hello, again!

I wanted to give just a bit more information regarding Treasure Hunter.
Though the value increases of +1→+2 and +5→+6 are both a +1 value, the rate increase is, in fact, different. The rate increases will be smaller as your Treasure Hunter value increases.

While we cannot provide the specific values, we do thank you for your inquiry!

[Alhanelem]

Aka "diminishing returns."

[Mikah]

There ya go. Absolutely no reason to (purposely) waste extra minutes for less than 1% drop rate increases going for 8+

And yes I'm certain 8+ is below or rounded to 1% because TH rate would be impossibly high if it was counted down at whole percent from ~10

[Gwydion]

Hello, again!

I wanted to give just a bit more information regarding Treasure Hunter.
Though the value increases of +1→+2 and +5→+6 are both a +1 value, the rate increase is, in fact, different. The rate increases will be smaller as your Treasure Hunter value increases.

While we cannot provide the specific values, we do thank you for your inquiry!

Thank you so much Sicycre!

[Gwydion]

This is great to know, I can comfortable stop at a TH8 or 9 proc knowing the diminishing return is worth the effort. Congestion on Asura is real, and I won't waste my time going forward. I suspect that some TH increases have a very negligible effect, so I'll happily stick to TH8 or 9 going forward.

[Alhanelem]

Yeah, as vague as they still are being about it, just knowing that the the last points are worth less than the first ones is good enough for me.

[TullemoreAsuraFFXI]

It's a r.n.g. gaming mechanic. Let's say you're at a casino and you can bet on a dozen squares while playing roulette. Adding additional TH values is like covering more squares. TH1 is like covering another dozen squares, TH2 is like getting a double payout on the 24 squares you cover, TH3 is like adding another 12 squares you can cover etc etc etc.

[Alhanelem]

It's a r.n.g. gaming mechanic. Let's say you're at a casino and you can bet on a dozen squares while playing roulette. Adding additional TH values is like covering more squares. TH1 is like covering another dozen squares, TH2 is like getting a double payout on the 24 squares you cover, TH3 is like adding another 12 squares you can cover etc etc etc.
Well with your example the odds get higher by more each time, not less lol.

[Gwydion]

Hi SE,
Can you help us quantify the Dynamis Divergence Treasure zone bonus? I believe that this bonus is about ~3% chance of medals dropping from regular mobs in Wave 1 and Wave 2? Is this correct? or am I completely far off?

Basically, my linkshell will not stray away from the weekly Treasure zone to farm Windy Volte pieces because ...they're afraid of the loss of gil in doing so. Can you help us quantify this so we can try to make up the losses elsewhere? As of right now, I just can't convince them to do it and my PLD needs the DT/Magic Evasion from Volte Haubert. :(

[Cassiani]

Hello, again!

I wanted to give just a bit more information regarding Treasure Hunter.
Though the value increases of +1→+2 and +5→+6 are both a +1 value, the rate increase is, in fact, different. The rate increases will be smaller as your Treasure Hunter value increases.

While we cannot provide the specific values, we do thank you for your inquiry!

Thank you for the information! I have a question, though. What does "rate increase" mean? Is this the amount of TH that increases, or the probability that TH will increase, or something else?

You said +1→+2 and +5→+6 are both a +1 value, but because the "rate increase" is different, does this mean that the extra chance for drops gained from +1→+2 is less than that provided by +5→+6?

[Alhanelem]

Thank you for the information! I have a question, though. What does "rate increase" mean? Is this the amount of TH that increases, or the probability that TH will increase, or something else?

You said +1→+2 and +5→+6 are both a +1 value, but because the "rate increase" is different, does this mean that the extra chance for drops gained from +1→+2 is less than that provided by +5→+6?
The post you're quoting is outdated. They in fact posted a table of precise treasure hunter values based on drop rate tier a while back.

[Gwydion]

Yeah, specificially this page: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Treasure_Hunter

You'll see that for some item classifications there is a diminishing return for TH6-11 but others offer a marked increase from 11-12. So it is fair to say that NOT EVERY TH increase is a diminishing return, which is a bit contradictory to what Sicycre said. In any case, SE clarified it decently well with this table, so thanks for this SE!

Care to tell us which classification Volte Body armor falls into? :)

[Gwydion]

Hi SE,
Could you maybe throw me a bone here? Does Volte Body armor from Dynamis (D) zones drop when the wave 2 boss is killed in the first 30 minutes of a run? ...or is the drop rate the same no matter when the wave 2 boss is engaged / killed? I'm trying to decide if I should turn my Volte farming runs into Wave 3 runs, by choosing to kill the Wave 2 boss earlier (or stay the same and just try to farm Volte pieces from all the Wave 2 NMs).

Thanks!

[Alhanelem]

Hi SE,
Could you maybe throw me a bone here? Does Volte Body armor from Dynamis (D) zones drop when the wave 2 boss is killed in the first 30 minutes of a run? ...or is the drop rate the same no matter when the wave 2 boss is engaged / killed? I'm trying to decide if I should turn my Volte farming runs into Wave 3 runs, by choosing to kill the Wave 2 boss earlier (or stay the same and just try to farm Volte pieces from all the Wave 2 NMs).

Thanks!
I've never heard of a case where drops from a monster vary by the time elapsed. I don't think you should jump through any hoops for a drop rate increase that most likely does not exist.

[Gwydion]

I've never heard of a case where drops from a monster vary by the time elapsed. I don't think you should jump through any hoops for a drop rate increase that most likely does not exist.

Sure, I understand you. However, the implementation that we perceive does not have to be inherently fair...at all. In fact, anecdotally, I have witnessed more people get Volte body armor drops from Wave 2 Bosses when attempting a Wave 3 run (i.e. the Wave 2 boss is killed much earlier in the run). Hence, why I posed the question to SE here: do wave 2 bosses give better drop rates on Volte body armor if they're killed earlier in the run vs later on?

[Ruf]

I've never heard of a case where drops from a monster vary by the time elapsed. I don't think you should jump through any hoops for a drop rate increase that most likely does not exist.

As far as I am concerned, nothing say that windows of time cannot be part of drop rate equation *including Treasure Hunter and battles difficulty level* I think Gwydion question is decent.

[Alhanelem]

As far as I am concerned, nothing say that windows of time cannot be part of drop rate equation *including Treasure Hunter and battles difficulty level* I think Gwydion question is decent.
I mean, after much badgering, SE gave us the exact drop rate tables they use across all content. This is just another Crafting Compass or other stupid fabricated myth (SE also later told us direction doesn't matter for crafting)

Believe in superstitions if you want, but without data, all you have is that- a superstition. Ancedotal evidence is not evidence. You need to keep track. But what you're postulating makes no sense at best- If there were external factors that affected drop rate, they would have to be things you do before defeating a boss, yet you're suggesting that things you do after matter, which makes no sense. The game doesn't know whether you're going to attempt to do the wave 3 boss or not, so there's no way to make a special condition for that in the first place, other than a timer, which would be unprecedented as that's never been done before as far as I'm aware.

Do it at least 100 times under each set of conditions then we'll talk. His question is not decent. It's dubious at best, based on "I've seen this a few times" and "I want to believe it".

[Ruf]

100times is a huge sample for divergence.

[Alhanelem]

Im not even sure what dubious mean but, 100times is a huge sample AND who tell you I believe half the things said by squeenix? :p

Dubious

adjective

doubtful; marked by or occasioning doubt: a dubious reply.
of doubtful quality or propriety; questionable: a dubious compliment; a dubious transaction.
of uncertain outcome: in dubious battle.
wavering or hesitating in opinion; inclined to doubt.

100 times is actually a very small sample size. It's not my fault it takes a long time

[Gwydion]

I mean, after much badgering, SE gave us the exact drop rate tables they use across all content. This is just another Crafting Compass or other stupid fabricated myth (SE also later told us direction doesn't matter for crafting)

Believe in superstitions if you want, but without data, all you have is that- a superstition. Ancedotal evidence is not evidence. You need to keep track. But what you're postulating makes no sense at best- If there were external factors that affected drop rate, they would have to be things you do before defeating a boss, yet you're suggesting that things you do after matter, which makes no sense. The game doesn't know whether you're going to attempt to do the wave 3 boss or not, so there's no way to make a special condition for that in the first place, other than a timer, which would be unprecedented as that's never been done before as far as I'm aware.

Do it at least 100 times under each set of conditions then we'll talk. His question is not decent. It's dubious at best, based on "I've seen this a few times" and "I want to believe it".

I think you misunderstand. I am stating anecdotally, that I have witnessed more Volte bodies drop from Wave 2 Bosses being defeated in the first 30 minutes of a run (intended as a Wave 3 run) vs other runs, where farming occurs in Wave1/2 (and as a result Wave 2 Boss is killed in the last 30 minutes of a run). I've personally killed this Windy Wave 2 boss over 100 times over the last 3 years and never saw the body drop when Fii Pexu was killed at the end of run (having spent more than an hour in the zone). Meanwhile other friends have entered, killed the wave 2 boss immediately, with little to no TH, and still got the body to drop on a few occasions.

So I am postulating to SE the following question: Does a Volte body drop more frequently if the Wave 2 boss is killed earlier in the run vs later in the run?

Also, to Alhanaelem's assertion, there ARE at least one or two Salvage NMs whose spawn conditions occur if you reached a certain floor within 45 minutes, etc. (Therefore it's not entirely out of the question for a Wave 2 boss to have different drops rates depending how early or late he is killed in a run).

[Ruf]

Dubious

adjective

doubtful; marked by or occasioning doubt: a dubious reply.
of doubtful quality or propriety; questionable: a dubious compliment; a dubious transaction.
of uncertain outcome: in dubious battle.
wavering or hesitating in opinion; inclined to doubt.

100 times is actually a very small sample size. It's not my fault it takes a long time

1/365days~

[Ruf]

I mean, after much badgering, SE gave us the exact drop rate tables they use across all content. This is just another Crafting Compass or other stupid fabricated myth (SE also later told us direction doesn't matter for crafting)

Believe in superstitions if you want

Some of them end up being true.

[Alhanelem]

Also, to Alhanaelem's assertion, there ARE at least one or two Salvage NMs whose spawn conditions occur if you reached a certain floor within 45 minutes, etc. (Therefore it's not entirely out of the question for a Wave 2 boss to have different drops rates depending how early or late he is killed in a run).
Spawn conditions != Drop rates. The monsters have the same drop rates every time.

[Alhanelem]

Also, Ddadadang!Again, spawn conditions are not drop rates.

I'm fully aware of such spawn conditions and they exist all over the game. Show me a monster whose drop rates change based on time elapsed of the content said monster belongs to.

You can not eyeball a handful of monster drops and invent a pattern that does not exist.

You can flip a coin 100 times and get 60 heads in a row, that doesn't mean that coins land on heads more than tails.

[Alhanelem]

The point is that its based on a timer which most of the game is based upon so it does not exclude drop rates. Excluding it as a possibility is like believing that "some corporation" arnt making programmed obsolescence and that every rose is red or pink... make it drink black ink and youll get a whole different vision. This game is based on mathematics fundamentally out of game play more than some other games so, internally who know, going by your logic, easter eggs do not exist.
No, you're asserting that it's based on a timer, which is an unproven theory, not a fact. A theory based on a small amount of anecdotal "evidence" which is well, well within margin of error.

The rest of your post isn't even worth a response, just a bunch of radical assumptions and irrational logic. Where in the world did I suggest or imply "easter eggs don't exist? There is no way you could extrapolate that logic from my post.

[Ruf]

IE: (HTB)

Items droprate can be enhanced with treasure hunter while difficulty lvl also increase%.

Why could it not have more variables to it?

[Alhanelem]

I did not say it is but im saying that it could be
THe possibility that it could be is so remote that it may as well be zero.

Again, collect data and we can talk. I'm sick of these conspiracy theories.

You can not infer a pattern based on a handful of eyeballed results.

[Ruf]

THe possibility that it could be is so remote that it may as well be zero.

Again, collect data and we can talk. I'm sick of these conspiracy theories.

You can not infer a pattern based on a handful of eyeballed results.
I believe in the 1%.

[Alhanelem]

I just said that I believe in the 1% and then you tell me 0? You dont believe in 1% gotcha.
You can think whatever you want, but thoughts are not facts.

But thanks for essentially admitting how unlikely this theory is to be true.

[Ruf]

You are welcome, Good night!

[Gwydion]

I think you misunderstand. I am stating anecdotally, that I have witnessed more Volte bodies drop from Wave 2 Bosses being defeated in the first 30 minutes of a run (intended as a Wave 3 run) vs other runs, where farming occurs in Wave1/2 (and as a result Wave 2 Boss is killed in the last 30 minutes of a run). I've personally killed this Windy Wave 2 boss over 100 times over the last 3 years and never saw the body drop when Fii Pexu was killed at the end of run (having spent more than an hour in the zone). Meanwhile other friends have entered, killed the wave 2 boss immediately, with little to no TH, and still got the body to drop on a few occasions.

So I am postulating to SE the following question: Does a Volte body drop more frequently if the Wave 2 boss is killed earlier in the run vs later in the run?

Also, to Alhanaelem's assertion, there ARE at least one or two Salvage NMs whose spawn conditions occur if you reached a certain floor within 45 minutes, etc. (Therefore it's not entirely out of the question for a Wave 2 boss to have different drops rates depending how early or late he is killed in a run).

Bumping in the hopes of hearing from SE. Thanks.

[Alhanelem]

Bumping in the hopes of hearing from SE. Thanks.They don't respond to thread bumps. Add something meaningful to the thread or leave it be.

I'm just going to tell you right now straight up it doesn't, and let you keep concocting conspiracy theories.
You have no evidence that this even *could* be a thing and niether does anyone else. Your conditions for it are also completely arbitrary and have no basis in logic. The community team has better things to do than get every wild conspiarcy theory proven or disproven.

[Alhanelem]

I want SE to prove to the world that refresh can't drop from a Taisai. It's never happened, but you can't prove that something never will happen!

[Gwydion]

Please stop with the inflammatory speech, Alhanelem. My question (and request) is reasonable.

If SE can confirm a change in drop-rate for Volte bodies early or late in the run, I can choose whether to farm Wave 1/2 or kill the wave 2 boss early and farm Wave 3. It's a fair request, give the 60-hour lockout and rarity of the volte body armor.

[Alhanelem]

Please stop with the inflammatory speech, Alhanelem. My question (and request) is reasonable.

If SE can confirm a change in drop-rate for Volte bodies early or late in the run, I can choose whether to farm Wave 1/2 or kill the wave 2 boss early and farm Wave 3. It's a fair request, give the 60-hour lockout and rarity of the volte body armor.
It really isn't, you just want to believe in a fantasy that doesn't exist. You simply do not have enough evidence to even infer that a pattern exists. Even Cid's teeth is more deserving of an official response. Again, this is like the crafting compass all over again. When special conditions exist, generally they say that special conditions exist, even if they don't state explicitly what they are.

[Gwydion]

So I am postulating to SE the following question: Does a Volte body drop more frequently if the Wave 2 boss is killed earlier in the run vs later in the run?

Sicycre or any other GM staff,
Could you please take a moment to let us know if there are any special conditions that can change the drop rate of Volte body armor from Wave 2 NMs? After that, please lock this thread as Sicycre has gone above and beyond to help players understand this mechanic in Dynamis Divergence.

[Alhanelem]

Sicycre or any other GM staff,
Could you please take a moment to let us know if there are any special conditions that can change the drop rate of Volte body armor from Wave 2 NMs? After that, please lock this thread as Sicycre has gone above and beyond to help players understand this mechanic in Dynamis Divergence.
Sicycre, please understand that this use of the word "we" does not represent the community at large.

Beyond that, i 100% agree with locking this thread, as there has been no actual honest discussion taking place.


(Sucking up to the boss ain't gonna work lol)

[Gwydion]

Bumpity bump bump.


So I am postulating to SE the following question: Does a Volte body drop more frequently if the Wave 2 boss is killed earlier in the run vs later in the run?

[Alhanelem]

Bumpity bump bump.
Doesn't workity work work.

Which you should have learned from the beaten-to-death "I wanna take all my gil out at once from the dbox" threads.



Greetings!

Thank you for taking the time to leave your feedback on our forums! We always like seeing player feedback and we can understand why you want such a feature implemented. Although we can appreciate the dedication you have towards your request, it has already received a direct reply, therefore, we will be closing this thread at this time.

We understand this decision might be a frustrating one, and we apologize for any inconvenience.

Thank you for your understanding!

-=Senior Game Master Emdub=-
This thread has already recieved a direct reply. So the same thing will happen if this continues. But hey, don't let me stop you.


https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/55340-Take-all-delivery-box?p=623851&viewfull=1#post623851

(https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/55340-Take-all-delivery-box?p=623851&viewfull=1#post623851)

[Gwydion]

Doesn't workity work work.

Which you should have learned from the beaten-to-death "I wanna take all my gil out at once from the dbox" threads.



This thread has already recieved a direct reply. So the same thing will happen if this continues. But hey, don't let me stop you.


https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/55340-Take-all-delivery-box?p=623851&viewfull=1#post623851

(https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/55340-Take-all-delivery-box?p=623851&viewfull=1#post623851)

I think you once again, hit the Reply button without really developing an understanding of what's going on. This thread has already received two direct replies and if they choose to answer one of my follow up questions, I would be extremely grateful, but please don't imply or insinuate that needlessly spamming. It's a decent question.

Amazingly enough, I was able to get the volte body to drop earlier today, but if my questions help other people in planning how to divide their limited Dynamis Divergence farming time, then it shouldn't be something for you to get in the way of.

[Alhanelem]

I think you once again, hit the Reply button without really developing an understanding of what's going on.What you think is happening, and what is actually happening, are not always the same thing, and I find your comment insulting.

If you keep bumping the thread, it's going to get locked. That's my point. Because the GM didn't post in the cited thread until after all the bumping took place.

I'm just really sick of people thinking they see patterns in RNG that don't exist. Take SR for instance, you'll have people swearing that one or another of the three bosses will drop the reward doodad and the other one(s) won't or will drop them less. When the reality is they all have the same low drop rate and somebody just got lucky (or unlucky) and thinks they saw a pattern when they didn't. Just because you flipped a coin 100 times and got 60 heads doesn't mean the coin is rigged to land heads more.

That's what's going on here, no more, and no less. Get it out of your head that there's special drop rates based on whether you do a full run or not. There isn't. For every claim like yours, there will be someone who's had the opposite experience.

Back when Dynamis was new I must have done like 50 Dynamis-Xarcabards before I got the summoner's horn. If it was you doing those runs, you'd be questioning if there's some special drop rule for each peice of gear. But the linkshell that ran before us got like 10 summoner's horns in the same time span, and got hardly any of <some other item somebody wanted>.

This is one of those situations. Period. You want to disagree? Do it more times and collect more data and prove a pattern. Your data right now is "me and a friend (or something like th at) saw a couple drops this way and not that way.") That's not data. And whenever someone makes a dubious claim like that without data, I'm there to question it because the community needs reliable information, not conspiracy theories.

[Delgear]

Sorry I have read the entire thread, and the information on BG. It is CLEAR to me that your initial hit applies a maximum of TH 8, however is there any benefit to having more than TH8 when trying to upgrade to higher TH values ? does it help ?

BG claims it compares your current TH tot he monsters present TH level which would lead you to believe having higher than TH8 can help.

but in both spots are times it lists TH 8 as the "cap"

[Catmato]

There has been no evidence to suggest that equipping any TH past 8 (TH3 trait + 5 in gear) does anything.

[Gwydion]

Sorry I have read the entire thread, and the information on BG. It is CLEAR to me that your initial hit applies a maximum of TH 8, however is there any benefit to having more than TH8 when trying to upgrade to higher TH values ? does it help ?

BG claims it compares your current TH tot he monsters present TH level which would lead you to believe having higher than TH8 can help.

but in both spots are times it lists TH 8 as the "cap"

I originally replied to this topic in a thread where Community Rep Camate explain "TH rate of decay" to us back in 2012. Please read here:


Combining everyone's input and converting Camate's words with sample data, I've constructed the following tables that I believe illustrate his point.

Assumptions:
Base TH Proc Rate is X. (Yellow) Base TH Proc Rate never changes for a positive TH difference between player and monster. Base TH Proc Rate shrinks when TH difference between player and mob is negative. I have assumed a 10% shrinkage (rate of decay) for TH procs below just for illustration purposes.
Thank you for so much in advance, even for just reading.

https://i.imgur.com/0z5iy85.png

There is still current debate in the community and I'll explain where Catmato and myself diverge.

Confirmed: SE has told us that the TH proc rate starts out at some percentage X, and each subsequent TH proc reduces the chance of another TH proc occurring. In other words, every subsequent TH proc, decreases the chance of another TH proc occurring. (This means wearing more TH than the current TH proc level, will keep your proc rate constant/from diminishing). You can see in the chart I posted how this is supposed to work.

Opinion #1: The opinion expressed by Catmato is referring to a test performed by FFXI player Thorny here: https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/55788/treasure-hunter-proc-rate-testing-th-8-versus-14/7/#3688687. His testing implies that wearing TH+8 and TH+15 respectively, did not meaningfully show any difference in TH proc rates from TH8->9 or 9->10 or 11->12, so on, and so forth. For people who believe Thorny's sample size to be large enough, they take this statement as gospel and simply stop wearing more than TH+8 (+5 in gear as Catmato) said.

https://i.imgur.com/24UnLqP.png/
https://i.imgur.com/asQCwWk.png

Opinion #2: As you can see in Thorny's data above, we only have ~97 TH10 procs in 9970 hits, 37 TH11 procs and 19 TH12 procs. If these proc rates are meant to be independent rates (because they decay after all), the proc rate's sample size is too small. We would need x10 or x100 more procs to even say with confidence that proc rate has decayed a meager amount like, say 2% for each subsequent TH proc. In my original reply, you can see that I chose a number like 10% decay, but that would have shown up in Thorny's data).

Reality/Conclusion: These are the two schools of thought with respect to TH proc'ing. As players, we test everything because there have been translation and configuration errors in the past. But, we also have fun unlocking FFXI's mysteries! Do whichever method you prefer. Have fun doing it!

This is where SE can help us: Please simply tell us if TH proc rate decays for all levels of TH and if Camate's 2012 reply applies to all TH1-14. (Bonus: Does Hoxne Ring reduce this rate of decay? Is the "increase by 5%" applied additively or multiplicatively? The item description isn't clear).

If a GM replies with "YES" to this thread, then we should have TH9 when we proc TH9 and TH10 when we proc TH+10, TH11 when we proc TH11, and so on, to mitigate the rate of decay as Camate said in 2012.

[Catmato]

I don't take it as gospel. I take the statements from SE themselves being backed up the testing in that BG thread to be good enough evidence. On top of that, with the difference between TH4 and TH8 alone being negligible, severely gimping DPS by slowly meleeing in TH+20 gear trying to upgrade it even farther is not worth anybody's time.

[Gwydion]

Catmato, my response wasn't meant towards you specifically. My bad, I didn't mean for it to come across as that way! ....I don't want to debate what is worthy of anyone's time. (We play an MMORPG, which in and of itself, is very time-consuming!).

However, SE did give us this chart below. Your are right to say that TH4 vs TH8 in many cases doesn't matter that much, at least when a precious Party Slot in 6-man content is conerned! I can see why people may argue that even bring a thief at all, and tat TH might be a waste of time. Now, TH4 vs TH8 does pick up for items that are Rare to Ultra Rare ...but if we compare TH8 vs TH14 in a given situation, I think we probably decided to bring a Thief, if an event has comparing those levels of TH.

https://i.imgur.com/9lvTmrg.png

[Voidstorm]

too long, not quoting, scroll up to read the rest.

Reality/Conclusion: These are the two schools of thought with respect to TH proc'ing. As players, we test everything because there have been translation and configuration errors in the past. But, we also have fun unlocking FFXI's mysteries! Do whichever method you prefer. Have fun doing it!

This is where SE can help us: Please simply tell us if TH proc rate decays for all levels of TH and if Camate's 2012 reply applies to all TH1-14. (Bonus: Does Hoxne Ring reduce this rate of decay? Is the "increase by 5%" applied additively or multiplicatively? The item description isn't clear).

If a GM replies with "YES" to this thread, then we should have TH9 when we proc TH9 and TH10 when we proc TH+10, TH11 when we proc TH11, and so on, to mitigate the rate of decay as Camate said in 2012.
As for Hoxne Ring. It's additive with Gifts, and the gifts are multiplicative with base upgrade rates. If not, then we would see a far larger change in upgrade rate which would be obvious and would have made that ring sell on AH 10x or more it's current prices.

I don't take Thorny's test as gospel either. I take it as our best testing to date regarding the argument and would challenge anyone who wants to prove him wrong to do a similar, larger test themselves.

[Alhanelem]

Sigh why are you guys ressurecting this again....

The devs/community team haven't replied to anything here in a very long time, you're living in a fantasy if you think you're ever going to get a confirmation or denial of anything.

I dunno why gwyd fusses over this so much. More TH is always better than less, I don't see how any confirmation or denial of any of this would change the way you use THF in any activity.

[Gwydion]

Catmato, my response wasn't meant towards you specifically. My bad, I didn't mean for it to come across as that way! ....I don't want to debate what is worthy of anyone's time. (We play an MMORPG, which in and of itself, is very time-consuming!).

However, SE did give us this chart below. Your are right to say that TH4 vs TH8 in many cases doesn't matter that much, at least when a precious Party Slot in 6-man content is conerned! I can see why people may argue that even bring a thief at all, and tat TH might be a waste of time. Now, TH4 vs TH8 does pick up for items that are Rare to Ultra Rare ...but if we compare TH8 vs TH14 in a given situation, I think we probably decided to bring a Thief, if an event has comparing those levels of TH.

https://i.imgur.com/9lvTmrg.png


Sigh why are you guys ressurecting this again....

The devs/community team haven't replied to anything here in a very long time, you're living in a fantasy if you think you're ever going to get a confirmation or denial of anything.

I dunno why gwyd fusses over this so much. More TH is always better than less, I don't see how any confirmation or denial of any of this would change the way you use THF in any activity.

Clearly, there are people who don't think "More TH is better" and stop at TH8.

[Voidstorm]

I stop at TH4. I can kill at least 2x as fast on BLU and I single-box, so I won't have a pocket alt to TH things for me.
Already have nearly all the HTMB drops that are useful so that is no longer a concern either.

If I did have a pocket thief, I would probably empy+3 feet + hoxne ring only. even if TH has a rolling cap at current rank, that let's me TH up to 11 before I would see a difference and the likelihood of a mob surviving long enough for that to reduce my TH from upgrading further would still be minimal.

[Alhanelem]

Clearly, there are people who don't think "More TH is better" and stop at TH8. People stop at TH8 because that's the furhtest you can go with gear, this isn't anything new and has been long established. But the rarer the drop category, the more impact TH has mathematically, going from a ~3x drop rate increase for common with maximum TH to a 15x better drop rate for ultra rare.

This whole debate is over something else, which again, I don't see how knowledge of what happens changes whether or not you bring THF and/or how you actually end up using it.

Though for less rare drops, sure, you don't need to bend over as hard to still get something in a reasonable timeframe. Subbing THF on any job allows up to TH4 today and you still get a meaningful increase with that.

[Catmato]

Bring a RNG for Bounty Shot. I actually got up to TH5 the other day.

[Catmato]

However, SE did give us this chart below. Your are right to say that TH4 vs TH8 in many cases doesn't matter that much, at least when a precious Party Slot in 6-man content is conerned! I can see why people may argue that even bring a thief at all, and tat TH might be a waste of time. Now, TH4 vs TH8 does pick up for items that are Rare to Ultra Rare ...but if we compare TH8 vs TH14 in a given situation, I think we probably decided to bring a Thief, if an event has comparing those levels of TH.

This is a legit question, not trolling or meant to be combative: What content that's relevant today actually relies on drops from TH? Is that content really worth trying to cap TH in a single fight vs just running the same thing twice at TH8-10 (or whatever upgrades just happen)?

[Gwydion]

This is a legit question, not trolling or meant to be combative: What content that's relevant today actually relies on drops from TH? Is that content really worth trying to cap TH in a single fight vs just running the same thing twice at TH8-10 (or whatever upgrades just happen)?

You're right to ask this question. For me personally, it stems from not getting the chance to bring THF to events very often. So, when we do Peach Power, I bring a THF and we'll get TH8 on all of them. If people have time or if someone really wants Adamantite Armor, we will save the last flan for TH14, which usually takes about 8-15 minutes. We got 3 meats out of 4 TH14 flans ...and I know this sample size is extremely small to the point of being useless.

I just like to play THF and try to do TH to the best of my ability. (It is unfortunate that proc'ing TH is basically THF's only usefulness, outside of Larceny, which is also very narrow use case).

[Alhanelem]

I'm pretty sure you meant useFULness there.

And it's mostly because the niche they tried to pivot the job to, enmity manipulation, just really isn't needed anymore. They should just cut their losses and increase its DPS.

[Gwydion]

I'm pretty sure you meant useFULness there.

And it's mostly because the niche they tried to pivot the job to, enmity manipulation, just really isn't needed anymore. They should just cut their losses and increase its DPS.

Typo corrected. Freudian slip. Totally agree on THF needing an update.

Power creep negates too many in-game mechanics ...and it makes me quite sad.

What if we had a battle content, where 1 group of players cast Raise on Cardians to fight a group of other players (DDs) to see who wins? ....That would certainly spice things up.