I am goning to redo some of our recent pet choices

[Beastorizer]

I am of the belief that a lot of (Not all) BST issues lie within the jug pets we are given. For example, I am fairly confident a level 119 Elasmoth would last an entire event. I seriously doubt a level 119 Colibri that I can solo within a minute or 2 will lol.......

BST should start out with simple common pets early on. However, as they level, the pet roster should get significantly stronger. Allow me show you what I mean......I am going to redo a few of our recent pet additions, to what I consider more useful pets.

Crafty Clyvonne: Would replace with........
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/6/6f/Yztargs.PNG/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/320?cb=20130415042656
Ready Moves: All

Turbid Toloi: Would replace with.....
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/f/f5/Ruszors.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/200?cb=20140313003103
Ready moves: All, except Ice Guillotine.

Dapper Mac: Would replace with......
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/1/12/Rocs.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/200?cb=20071008025332
Ready Moves: All

Nursery Nazuna: She was great......but Gonna replace her with......
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/f/f5/Ram.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/200?cb=20070505092120
Ready Moves: All except Great Bleat

Lucky Lulush: Like Nazuna, another repeat; gonna replace it with....
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/3/3a/Marids.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/200?cb=20070505085941
Ready Moves: All, and can spawn the Chigoe

Droopy Dortwin: Replace with..........
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/2/2d/Legendary_Manticore.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/200?cb=20131107064355
Ready Moves: All (One hr ability also)

Audacious Anna; Would replace with......
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/8/85/Peistecat.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/200?cb=20080822005857http://
Ready Moves: All, except Oppressive Gaze.

Mailbuster Cetas: Gonna replace with.......
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/8/82/Hedetet.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/180?cb=20110529074959
Ready Moves: All, except the obvious lol.....

Generous Arthur: Would replace with.......
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/1/15/Sandwormp.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/200?cb=20080822002651
Ready moves: All but Doomvoid.

Suspicious Alice: Would replace with........
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/2/2d/Wivre_%28Model%29.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/200?cb=20070505224856
Ready moves; All (Yep, boiling blood too).

Warlike Patrick: Would replace with.....
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/b/bd/Matamata.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/320?cb=20130405041022
Ready moves: All, but Debilitating Spout


Surging Storm: Would replace with....
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/f/fc/Legendary_Roc.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/200?cb=20131214003201
Ready Moves: All (Includes a one-hr ability)

Blackbeard Randy: Would replace with......
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/d/d0/Whitetiger.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/200?cb=20130816211713
Ready moves: All, including Cross Thrash (& 1hr ability).

Threestar Lynn: Would replace with........
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/b/b8/Womaura_%28Category%29.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/200?cb=20070916172523http://
Ready Moves: All

Brave Hero Glenn: Would replace with.......
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/3/32/Craklaw.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/320?cb=20130405041240
ready moves: All

Rhyming Shizuna: replace with........
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ffxi/images/a/a1/Hadhayosh.png/revision/latest/top-crop/width/200/height/150?cb=20100723134730
Ready moves; All (Plus 1 hr ability)

Are there any pets you feel like should be replaced, or we should have had by now? Imo, a few of these could easily solve the durability pet vs master dilemma.

[Sirmarki]

Most of these pets would be too large and un-practical.

[Beastorizer]

Most of these pets would be too large and un-practical.

Like WoW, FFXI scaled down the huge pets like Raphie, so size is a non-factor. Unpractical, I agree. It is not realistic, although it should be. WoW did a great job on their pets. If you see it, you can tame it. The most powerful pets are off limits in FFXI, this is kind of were BST issue lie.

You are only as strong as your pet.

In the past, they did everything. New abilities, accuracy and attack boosts, changed Sic to Ready, etc........ every adjustment, but the easy one.....

Just give BST stronger pets that are cannon.

[Nyarlko]

Because of the way they implemented ilvl jug pets, there's really zero incentive or benefit to adding any jugs that are not able to reach lv119. :/

WoW is not really the best example of how to handle pet jobs since they've been homogenized and neutered several times over the years. Unless it's changed recently, nearly all pets all used the same exact move sets and were little more than varied skins. The resizing thing was also buggy last time I played a few years ago.. I had a super rare trick-tamed maggot pet that Bestial Wrath made roughly the size of a bus that my guild banned me from using during raids for example. XD

[Beastorizer]

Hm, I don't think so. Pending the species, WoW pet abilities vary. Many have basic attacks like bite.

I agree, adding jugs whom cannot reach lvl 119 makes zero sense. I suppose they want to keep BST Affinity relevant? Uncapped would have made more sense.

BST is an extension of their pets, just as other jobs are an extension of their abilities or magic. If you give a mage crappy spells, odds are the job would be somewhat crappy (Not to say BST is crappy...). If you give a DD crappy abilities, odds are, the dd would be crappy.

BST does not have much in the way of native abilities to boost the master's damage; in a way, BST abilities or magic are the pets. I would love to ask a dev if this Rabbit, Crab, Sheep, Mandy, Fly, and even Tiger cycle can cease for one update. This cycle has been going on far too long.

I just feel like zero thought goes into BST jugs. They are lazily done imo. The amount of overlapping pets is crazy. Why do we need like 4 or 5 rabbits, 3+ Lizards, 3+ mandies, etc?

The devs tried everything. How about pygmy pets? Behemoth, Amphiptere, Wivre, etc. I am fairly confident BST would be in a much better place with pygmy versions of the most powerful & durable creatures. They never tried this, but they did try everything but this.

Durable/dd pet=Durable/capable dd BST

[Nyarlko]

Jug pet stats are all preset and seem to only use a handful of templates for stuff like HP and attack, then job traits are applied on top, then family mods on top of that (which are typically defense oriented like tulfaire having a resistance to the slashing damage type.)

Even if they were to give us super epic new pet families, I don't see them deviating from this sort of pattern, so we'll end up with just the Ready moves as the primary differences compared to what we have available currently. Given the system limitations on how our pets mechanically works, there'd be no real difference between using a Tiger vs a Ceutzhi.. and no, there is reasonable method for giving us pets that have their own 1hrs to set them apart. XD
I would go as far as to expect that stats between the two would be quite literally identical and functionally no more than a new skin. :( There is already a huge variety of jugs in the game as is, and adding new ones that serve no real, impactful purpose seems like a lot of wasted effort/time to me, compared to simply de-obsoleting all of our existing ones.

Rather than adding more jugs, it would do us a lot more good if they were willing to do what needs to be done, and give us a genuine overhaul, including how jug pets work. It would make a lot more sense to simply ignore/remove jug level limits for an ilvl player, so that any jug gives us a pet that is equal level to the player. TBH, I would greatly prefer that our pet ilvl system was converted from mainhand weapon ilvl > a new ammo/ranged slot item like PUP/SMN first, then remove the jug level caps as a second priority, then thirdly add new jugs if there's enough time left in the schedule to spare on something that low-impact.

[Beastorizer]

I hear you, there are some good points. However, I ask......

Do ppl use Brave Hero Glenn? Why not? Because not all pets are created equal.

I still hold firm that overhauls are not the answer. Why? We have seen this movie before, many times.....Sic > Ready, Increase pet stats, Pet stat food, etc, etc. No realistic overhaul can make Brave Hero Glenn a powerful pet. But...A powerful species does not need an overhaul.

Overhaul is vague. What are we overhauling? What does it entail? How many of these fixes have we had now? Too many to count..

Improved jug species? It entails better jug selection (Including moves). Again, overhauls are vague. Better species are not.

Example of how improve jug selections would surpass any overhaul...

A Wivre, Granite Skin? He cannot be physically hurt from the front. Along with Boiling Blood? This trumps any overhaul they can realistically give us. BST would be the Physical Tank
https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEjHFj3zAXyiKWQCI/giphy.gif

A Peiste? Grim Glower=the Party has a short amount of time to avoid any attacks from a mob. The BST would be an ace.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BrokenImmaterialEyelashpitviper-size_restricted.gif

We all know a Death Scissor Scorp will blow any jug we currently have away...
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-P932n-txt0I/W-BMPkzOR1I/AAAAAAABI6I/rD0C5gcIKaUQKq8Rf_B2LEdcjoMnkpHCgCLcBGAs/s1600/Scorpion%2BDeath%2BLock.gif

Ruszor would also have utility because he can freeze foes for a short amount of time, = Hydro Wave absorbs water. BST has utility pending the mob.
https://media0.giphy.com/media/13edcsJf7Gl6zm/giphy.gif

Yztarg's normal attacks are very effective. They reduce tp, defense, or stun. It's ready moves are also great.

They could even keep Beastruction if they make the condition of use for the mob's health to be under 35% instead of the jug pet. So the Yztarg would be the finisher.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PoorWeightyArabianoryx-size_restricted.gif

There is so much more usefulness, damage, strategy, and fun to be had with BST. However, it is all held back due to our jug pet selection. No overhaul can ever replace a solid jug selection. BST overhauls have come and gone, but BST still has the same issues players were complaining about during this forum's inception.

What has not been done? Better jug selections. Here lies the problem.

[Nyarlko]

Overhaul is vague. What are we overhauling? What does it entail? How many of these fixes have we had now? Too many to count..

"Overhaul" is not nearly as vague a term as you'd think. In context, it simply means to examine every aspect of the job and then repair damaged areas (like the less-than-melee JA range which is buggy as all get,) and/or improve areas that are lacking (like master meleeing.) Adding new pets to our toolbox, and/or removing the current restrictions on current pets, could be included within that description, but would do absolutely zilch to actually improve the performance of the job itself or bring it in line with how the devs decreed we are supposed to be playing the job.

As far as I am aware, since the current dev team took over several years ago, there have not been ANY adjustments to BST outside of the Distance Nerf (which was a Very Bad Thing™ and probably one of the biggest overnerfs that I've ever seen in any game,) and the replacement of the Pet: Enmity+ JP category (purely due to the conflict with the Divergence axe.)

So the answer to your question of "How many of these fixes have we had now?" is a big fat zero. :(

What else am I missing in the post-SoA/ilvl era that would qualify as merely an "adjustment", much less an "overhaul"? Referring to the start of the ilvl era as an overhaul does not qualify since that was an all-jobs sort of thing. ^^;;

[Nyarlko]

Also, I would never want to give up Patrick or Hermes. <,< Between the two, they cover 7/8 skillchain elements, so no replacing either of them. :P

[Beastorizer]

I just came back, but I wanna make sure I got this right; BST now has to be closer to use ready moves?

BST is a not a range dd. It is a melee dd, meant to fight alongside the pet. I recently came back to the game and didn't even notice the ready nerf. Mind you, I was not in any events or anything, but I cook my own pets. I reckon this would be mostly bad for soloing against monsters with AOE. They do not necessarily make or break BST. There was a time when BST could use ready from a mile away, but it was still a flawed job. There was never a time BST had a great jug selection.

I hear ya'll gripes, but they illustrate what I have been saying......Overhauls come and go. An overhaul can render Patrick "nerfed" but there is no replacing great jug selections. I do not want to rely on vague overhauls. An overhaul can improve, or nerf.

That is why I say Better Jug selections > Overhauls. The reason this distance thing is such a big deal, is it expose how poor the jug selection really is. Would this distance thing be a huge issue if the damage vastly compensated for it with powerful pets? Doubt it...

After saying all that, then bring up the lizard implies he is not part of the solution, but merely a casualty of the problem. Pets whom more damaging would replace Patrick in a heartbeat. If Blockhead or Tail blow (Relatively weak moves) can do around 8k, it is safe to say Death Scissors or Crippling blow would quintuple that, being naturally powerful moves. If they would give us a 119 hippo with Hoof-Volley? They would put out equal or higher numbers than a dd.

Patrick's skill-chains or abilities are obviously not good enough, or make him irreplaceable (I see a lot of ppl using the grasshopper), because BST appears to be in the same position as it was before I left back in 2015. It is like nothing has changed. Devs, how about better pet selection? That is something you never tried.

As for Patrick, there is replacing him because he is obviously not strong enough to compensate for ready move distance.

The Ready change is annoying, I do agree there.

[Nyarlko]

Overhauls do not "come and go" for BST, because there have literally been none. -_- You can't argue against this point. It's not my personal opinion, it's simply a fact. The closest thing would be the distance nerf which reduced our JA range for ALL JAs to less than melee range, which introduced what are effectively bugs into the job. It's quite possible to get an "out of range" error while literally standing INSIDE your pet's model, apparently due to lag.

Your assumptions on how Ready moves would scale are also 100% off the mark. Like I said before, they used a handful of stat templates and apply them to all of our jug pets. When attack capped, almost all 1-hit physical moves have the exact same damage range because the base stats are exactly the same. The only real variances for maximum damage come from pet Job, JTs, and monster correlation. Just because a wild version of a monster type hits stupidly hard does not in any way imply that a jug pet version would hit even slightly harder than existing jugs. There is no way to break this pattern without giving us a literal "Ready damage+" stat, which I sadly don't see the devs being willing to do.

Bertha is our only good AOE damage pet, which is the main reason why you will see her quite frequently; it's not that she's technically any stronger than other jugs. I used Patrick as an example, because I use him and Hermes almost exclusively when I bother playing BST due to BST pets being a reliable skillchain engine that cover 7/8 elements easily using 1-charge Readys. I fully understand that this is not how the majority are going to play BST, so let's take that use case out of the equation and think about this instead. When attack capped and used with identical pet TP, Tail Blow does equal damage as Randy's Razor Claw, Bertha's Sensilla Blades, etc. If the target is not subject to correlation, then the only variance is the standard randomization factor applied to all physical damage... Sure, it'll take more buffs/debuffs to get Patrick capped than Randy needs due to Randy's extra Attack Bonus, but there is no true variance at the top. (There is an amazing job guide for BST over on ffxiah forums that I highly recommend that you check out where everything about our pets has been tested extensively and we know that nothing breaks the template pattern.)

The hope that some super awesome pet with 1charge 99k damage Ready moves will be added is a pipedream, and even if the devs DID hit the hookah hard enough for that dream to come true, we'd still be out DPS'd by any top geared melee job, outside of Unleash. (TBH, I would not want this to really happen simply because of the guaranteed backlash from non-BST players, which would most likely result in a blanket overnerf again.. I also don't see it being genuinely healthy for the job or the game overall. We already have the SMN situation, and BST really doesn't need to become a copy of that.)

Don't get me wrong, I would like to see some new jugs, just so long as they come in AFTER all of the changes necessary to make the job less systematically frustrating to play and aren't promoted as the answer to our woes. But, it will take a heckuva lot more than just some new jugs to fix the problems that BST faces to be taken seriously again.

[Beastorizer]

Not true, BST has been overhauled numerous times

Sic was overhauled

Pet attack and accuracy was overhauled

Their damage was overhauled

They received an overhaul to their potency with "Run Wild" and "Unleashed"

That is why I said overhaul is vague. What do you mean? Redo the entire job? Fixing the distance bug? Is fixing bugs an overhaul?

None of these things changed BST. You are not wrong pointing out the Ready bug. It is indeed irksome now that you pointed it out (Thanks for that......lol....). However, was BST a juggernaut in the past when they could use ready at a distance? Before I left, it was 2015. BST could use Ready from a mile away, but the job was still lacking. I doubt distance killed BST. Ready moves can still be used, just at a closer distance. The moves themselves were not nerfed......

As for how moves work, no, it is not off the mark. If what you were saying were true, why are some moves stronger than others? Notably the Grasshopper..
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/45830/killer-instinct-the-beastmaster-compendium/#physicalready

These are game mechanics. Fantod was the strongest pet ability in our arsenal; one of the strongest, if not strongest mob abilities in the game (Save the critical hp attacks). Falcorr with Fantod had the highest damage potential. Surprise!!! This was a pet the players picked, hence it was our best one.

"Death Scissors: Very high damage, single target attack."
https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Scorpions

I understand how the pets work, which is why I specifically stated jugs should be cannon. Cannon jugs are what I mean by better jug selection.

Grasshopper moves are naturally stronger than a Lizard's, so there is no shocker there. His moves damage is cannon. Them removing meditate was not lol.....These are not assumptions. It is something which was proven with Faithful Falcorr, and you proved yourself with Bertha. Some pets are stronger than others. Stronger pets would bump bst up in the que; guaranteed....Fantod was insane when I played. No pet during that time could touch falcorr in terms of Ready move damage. I seriously doubt Death Scissors or Fantod > Hoof Volley would do equal damage to all of our other pets when it is proven, not all pet ready moves are equal.

It appears equal, or the same because we have no naturally powerful moves to compare our other jug pet moves with. It is like the slowest turtle at the race. All are slow, so finding a fast one is difficult. Big Scissors vs Rhino Attack? Did not fear neither on mobs, they both sucked. Death Scissors and Fantod were something to fear.

[Xilk]

I think you need to play more in the current game before recommending massive changes.
most of what you say simply does not make sense.
Adding pets is great. REMOVING existing pets is terrible.

Warlike Patrick is one of the best dd pets there is. He's versatile and make a great self-skillchain and burst. Most of Beaztmaster's solo videos use Warlike Patrick because he's the best DD option for them.

Generous Arthur is one of the most potent pets we have! Corrosive Ooze and Purulent Ooze are incredible.. and he has such a great magic defense! The damage is great for both, especially if you burst their ready moves. But even that aside the the debuffs are fantastic! its like having your own geo-malaise and geo-wilt! let alone max hp down 10%!

Really, go use the jugs more. I carry absolutely every jug a bst can currently use. Sure some are not very useful atm, but you are not recognizing which ones.

The reduction in distance for bst pet commands is very significant in making a pet party setup. It pretty much remove's beastmasters place in alot of fights, particularly ambuscade fights, for pup and summoner setups.

You are mistaken if you think the underleveled pets do not have a place. yes, it would better if they were not underleveled, however Falcorr, Julio, Shasra, Amigo Sabotender, and Fargann have all had specifically advantageous use in current content. Sheer Power is NOT the marker of what you need in every situation.

I would appreciate a power boost right now, as puppetmaster just got one, and bst feels like its starting to fall behind, but I've made an entire thread with several recommendations which I subtle but helpful in alot of ways. I would much rather have an adjustment to enmity tools on bst than a mere power boost.

[Beastorizer]

I think you need to play more in the current game before recommending massive changes.
most of what you say simply does not make sense.
Adding pets is great. REMOVING existing pets is terrible.

Warlike Patrick is one of the best dd pets there is. He's versatile and make a great self-skillchain and burst. Most of Beaztmaster's solo videos use Warlike Patrick because he's the best DD option for them.

Generous Arthur is one of the most potent pets we have! Corrosive Ooze and Purulent Ooze are incredible.. and he has such a great magic defense! The damage is great for both, especially if you burst their ready moves. But even that aside the the debuffs are fantastic! its like having your own geo-malaise and geo-wilt! let alone max hp down 10%!

Really, go use the jugs more. I carry absolutely every jug a bst can currently use. Sure some are not very useful atm, but you are not recognizing which ones.

The reduction in distance for bst pet commands is very significant in making a pet party setup. It pretty much remove's beastmasters place in alot of fights, particularly ambuscade fights, for pup and summoner setups.

You are mistaken if you think the underleveled pets do not have a place. yes, it would better if they were not underleveled, however Falcorr, Julio, Shasra, Amigo Sabotender, and Fargann have all had specifically advantageous use in current content. Sheer Power is NOT the marker of what you need in every situation.

I would appreciate a power boost right now, as puppetmaster just got one, and bst feels like its starting to fall behind, but I've made an entire thread with several recommendations which I subtle but helpful in alot of ways. I would much rather have an adjustment to enmity tools on bst than a mere power boost.

You say all that just to say it falls behind.

I say with stronger pets, BST will not fall behind. You stated you want a power boost; stronger species are a power boost. That is my point. Boosting BST through powerful jugs. This is why the argument against stronger pets but for the current ones always end in an oxymoron.

"I do not think we need stronger pets, but, BST falls behind and needs a power-boost"

In a nutshell, what I am saying is not all pets are created equal; this cannot be disputed

Some mobs including our pets are stronger than others; that cannot be disputed.

Knowing this.....

Scorpion > Any vermin we have in terms of dd

Hippo > Any Avian in terms of dd

Wivre > Any Lizard, including Patrick....lol

Ruzsor > Any aquan

We know this because some jugs are more powerful than others, that is a fact.

Some mobs have more damaging moves than others, this is a fact.

There is no reason to think adding jugs with powerful non-crit ready moves would break that cycle which has been ongoing since FFXI's inception.

No, I do not like the current jugs regardless of their SCs, because I know there are better species out there. No need for me to play with them. If SCs are not closing the gap, then why bring them up? They are not gap closing properties,thus, they can be replaced. Unless you feel as if BST is fine and does not fall behind, but both of you admitted it does...

I am trying to figure out where you all disagree with me, because my point always has been, stronger pets, would make BST powerful. That is why I modified the jugs. That is all I am saying.

If you want to use Patrick over a Wivre, no one is stopping you (But you are missing out on more DoT from Boiling Blood, Ready Damage, and defense...). Or The May Fly over the Scorpion.

[Xilk]

You say all that just to say it falls behind.

"I do not think we need stronger pets, but, BST falls behind and needs a power-boost"



This mis-quote right here tells me you need to go back and reread more carefully.

IF you want to know why people are disagreeing with you its very simple.

1. Your approach is completely 1-sided. You want a power level OVER 9000!!!

Plenty of beastmasters KNOW that power is not the end all and be all. at the level 75 Days, did a solo beastmaster take down Hakutaku from having and OP Pet?
No, Absolutely not. We did it by understanding the environment, both the layout and mobs available and working with and around those constraints. that was fantastic fun.

How about getting XP off Djinn? No one ELSE hunted Bombs and Djinn for gaining levels. The risk was too stupid high. But it was an awesome thrill for a Beastmaster, and very profitable if you could do it right.

You want a Wive who can put up Physical Shield and take 0 damage from the front? Well Guess what, that's old hat. During Abyssea you could do that with atma and ANY PET. but even NOW Herald Henry can do that just fine. I have a capped out 87.5% physical damage reduction set (almost capped magical damage reduction too). I can keep Bubble Curtain, Scissor guard and Metallic body up full time and that crab will take ZERO damage.

There is no problem for a beastmaster keeping their pet alive thru all manner of abuse. the trouble with tanking on bst is managing the Enmity. I don't need a better pet to tank with. I have many fantastic tanks. Herald Henry, Generous Arthur, Vivacious Vickie, Alluring Honey, Fluffy Bredo, Left-Handed Yoko, SwoopingZhivago, etc. All of them are fantastic tanks IN THE RIGHT SITUATION.

Snarl is a Wonderful ability. i would only tweak it very slightly. I want my pet Enmity gear to modify the amount of enmity I send to pet. This actually means I can actively build enmity on master, and snarl MORE enmity to the Pet. This alone would make Beastmaster tanking viable. It would not be EASY, but it would be viable. This is the essence of good game design. solution should have a sense of Elegance.

Another options is to actually have the self-buffing ready moves generate enmity. most of them are tanking buffs anyway! Zealous Snort, Secretion, Rhino guard, Water Wall, Scissor Guard, Bubble Curtain. These are things that would enable beastmaster to tank and it would be a real challenge.

Hey, I loved Dragonball Z when I was a 13 yr old too. but there is MUCH more to a good game than getting your POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!

2. You are bashing on beastmaster. Plenty of us other hardcore beastmasters rather like most things about the job right now.
I like LOTS of pets we are using right now. you are advocating for taking them away for your own preferences. If you want to suggest getting more jug pets for beastmaster, I'm all for that. I would love to have a new pet to play with in game. I would love to have a Scorpion or Wivre or Ruszor. I think you need to remember that OverPowered doesn't make it fun for more than 10 min though. If SE implemented some of these pets, they probably would not have all the abilities the same as the mobs. SE did not design the game so that mobs and players are on a balanced playing field. Some mobs can be killed solo, some need a party, some need an alliance. If you put that alliance killer NM in the hands of a beastmaster, pretty soon the game would be everyone running around on bst w/ an OP pet and every fight would be stupid boring.

I would ALSO love for the unique pets that ARE NOT ilvl 119 to get up to Ilvl 119. (or even higher) I have made this clear in a couple of threads already. Faithful Falcorr, Fatso Fargann, Amigo Sabotender, Presto Julio, Bloodclaw Shasra, Crude Raphie. These actually all have great abilities.

TP Drainkiss is an awesome tool. it has nothing to do with sheer Power. but it can be used to great effect to solo some fights you could not do without. Even though it is only an ilvl 114 pet.

Faithful Falcorr is awesome for some zerg and best bst dd for Belphegor fight. Fantod > Backheel for 50k ~ 80k Damage.

PrestoJulio's AoE Sleep and slow debuffs are still fantastic Crowd Control for tanking and solo'ing some high level fights.

I've burst over 30k Damage on Apex mobs, solo with Charged Whisker on Bloodclaw Shasra. That is plenty viable damage! no other pet has thunder elemental magic Damage. (Though I have bursted 75k with fluffy bredo, and could go higher)

If you haven't seen it you should lookup Beaztmaster's recent youtube video where he and Falkirk Took down Tolba in a NO TRUST duo using Amigo Sabotender. BECAUSE ITS THE BEST DD PET FOR THE FIGHT. ??? Needles damage is rather random, and only modified by Run Wild and Unleash (with job points). But it is also the only fragmentation property on a ready move. Also there is NO Accuracy check and NO defense check for the move.

Beastmaster is traditionally the job that has some of the most creative and obscure applications. It demands the player know their enemy and know themself. Rightfully does Falkirk quote Sun Tzu at the beginning of the Beastmaster Guide.

3. When I say we could use a pet power tweak. I'm talking about a TWEAK, a modest boost. Power Creep is a constant in an MMORPG. Until some of the adjustments THIS year, I really wasn't concerned at all about more power on Beastmaster. However, my MASTER is very well geared now. its hard for my pet to keep up. Also puppetmaster, which job has the closest balance to bst of any other, just took a big jump ahead with new attachments and Xiucoatl. It seems to catch up a bit with other DD's. This is the only reason i think a power boost for bst pets is appropriate now. The other tweaks to beastmaster are about tanking and making the job FUN.

A power boost to Beastmaster could take several different forms. it could be only gear. We could get gear that raises our pets level. Not just level 119 anymore, but higher. It could be just better stat boosts on pet gear.

It COULD be new pets. It could be raising level caps on old pets.

The only message I really hear from you is "I WANT MY POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!"
This attitude appears the antithesis of the spirit of the Beastmaster. It is not a powerful job because it has high stats (personal or pet). It is powerful because of the options it has to adapt to different game environments, SPECIFICALLY in regards to what mobs are present.

[Beastorizer]

This mis-quote right here tells me you need to go back and reread more carefully.

Well, I do not need to read carefully because my stance is not an oxymoron. I did not mis-quote you, because you stated you wanted a power-boost, but disagree with stronger jugs, or me, as stated right here.....

IF you want to know why people are disagreeing with you its very simple.

1. Your approach is completely 1-sided. You want a power level OVER 9000!!!

Nope, just stronger species

Plenty of beastmasters KNOW that power is not the end all and be all. at the level 75 Days, did a solo beastmaster take down Hakutaku from having and OP Pet?
No, Absolutely not. We did it by understanding the environment, both the layout and mobs available and working with and around those constraints. that was fantastic fun.

Says the guy who wants a power boost.....This is 2019, not 2005. We also have Trust now

How about getting XP off Djinn? No one ELSE hunted Bombs and Djinn for gaining levels. The risk was too stupid high. But it was an awesome thrill for a Beastmaster, and very profitable if you could do it right.

And yet....players complained about BST as a DD back then.....

You want a Wive who can put up Physical Shield and take 0 damage from the front? Well Guess what, that's old hat. During Abyssea you could do that with atma and ANY PET. but even NOW Herald Henry can do that just fine. I have a capped out 87.5% physical damage reduction set (almost capped magical damage reduction too). I can keep Bubble Curtain, Scissor guard and Metallic body up full time and that crab will take ZERO damage.

I like how you left out boiling blood. & this is 2019, not 2011. Pets were boosted since then, or "Power Boosted" How did that work out? Still complaining? Yeah, me too...

There is no problem for a beastmaster keeping their pet alive thru all manner of abuse. the trouble with tanking on bst is managing the Enmity. I don't need a better pet to tank with. I have many fantastic tanks. Herald Henry, Generous Arthur, Vivacious Vickie, Alluring Honey, Fluffy Bredo, Left-Handed Yoko, SwoopingZhivago, etc. All of them are fantastic tanks IN THE RIGHT SITUATION.

So you are telling me, if we got a Wivre or a Scorp, you would not use them? The current ones are so fantastic, BST is still "Behind" as you stated in your previous post......

Snarl is a Wonderful ability. i would only tweak it very slightly. I want my pet Enmity gear to modify the amount of enmity I send to pet. This actually means I can actively build enmity on master, and snarl MORE enmity to the Pet. This alone would make Beastmaster tanking viable. It would not be EASY, but it would be viable. This is the essence of good game design. solution should have a sense of Elegance.

Good suggestion; not game changing though, nor changes BST in terms of group content. Nor is it a "Power Boost."

Another options is to actually have the self-buffing ready moves generate enmity. most of them are tanking buffs anyway! Zealous Snort, Secretion, Rhino guard, Water Wall, Scissor Guard, Bubble Curtain. These are things that would enable beastmaster to tank and it would be a real challenge.

Great suggestion, but doubt it changes the landscape of BST. Why? If BST lags behind, why would this matter?

Hey, I loved Dragonball Z when I was a 13 yr old too. but there is MUCH more to a good game than getting your POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!

Says the guy who wanted a Power-Boost.....

2. You are bashing on beastmaster. Plenty of us other hardcore beastmasters rather like most things about the job right now.
I like LOTS of pets we are using right now. you are advocating for taking them away for your own preferences. If you want to suggest getting more jug pets for beastmaster, I'm all for that. I would love to have a new pet to play with in game. I would love to have a Scorpion or Wivre or Ruszor. I think you need to remember that OverPowered doesn't make it fun for more than 10 min though. If SE implemented some of these pets, they probably would not have all the abilities the same as the mobs. SE did not design the game so that mobs and players are on a balanced playing field. Some mobs can be killed solo, some need a party, some need an alliance. If you put that alliance killer NM in the hands of a beastmaster, pretty soon the game would be everyone running around on bst w/ an OP pet and every fight would be stupid boring.

Your opinion, but didn't you say you wanted a power-boost while bashing "My preferences?" So get rid of mine, for yours....ok.....

I would ALSO love for the unique pets that ARE NOT ilvl 119 to get up to Ilvl 119. (or even higher) I have made this clear in a couple of threads already. Faithful Falcorr, Fatso Fargann, Amigo Sabotender, Presto Julio, Bloodclaw Shasra, Crude Raphie. These actually all have great abilities.

Don't care about unique, only efficacy. The current jugs are not good. Otherwise, you would not say they need a power boost or are behind...

TP Drainkiss is an awesome tool. it has nothing to do with sheer Power. but it can be used to great effect to solo some fights you could not do without. Even though it is only an ilvl 114 pet.

Irrelevant move, because nobody shouts for Drain kiss.....

Faithful Falcorr is awesome for some zerg and best bst dd for Belphegor fight. Fantod > Backheel for 50k ~ 80k Damage.

Was it "Boring?"

PrestoJulio's AoE Sleep and slow debuffs are still fantastic Crowd Control for tanking and solo'ing some high level fights.

So you are fine with BST being a solo job? Not group oriented?

I've burst over 30k Damage on Apex mobs, solo with Charged Whisker on Bloodclaw Shasra. That is plenty viable damage! no other pet has thunder elemental magic Damage. (Though I have bursted 75k with fluffy bredo, and could go higher)

Would go even higher with a stronger pet....

If you haven't seen it you should lookup Beaztmaster's recent youtube video where he and Falkirk Took down Tolba in a NO TRUST duo using Amigo Sabotender. BECAUSE ITS THE BEST DD PET FOR THE FIGHT. ??? Needles damage is rather random, and only modified by Run Wild and Unleash (with job points). But it is also the only fragmentation property on a ready move. Also there is NO Accuracy check and NO defense check for the move.

Like you stated, BST was always a solo king. I soloed many of my +2 Abyssea items, before the 119 stuff. BST was still lagging behind DD, unless you used Falcorr in there.

Beastmaster is traditionally the job that has some of the most creative and obscure applications. It demands the player know their enemy and know themself. Rightfully does Falkirk quote Sun Tzu at the beginning of the Beastmaster Guide.

3. When I say we could use a pet power tweak. I'm talking about a TWEAK, a modest boost. Power Creep is a constant in an MMORPG. Until some of the adjustments THIS year, I really wasn't concerned at all about more power on Beastmaster. However, my MASTER is very well geared now. its hard for my pet to keep up. Also puppetmaster, which job has the closest balance to bst of any other, just took a big jump ahead with new attachments and Xiucoatl. It seems to catch up a bit with other DD's. This is the only reason i think a power boost for bst pets is appropriate now. The other tweaks to beastmaster are about tanking and making the job FUN.

A power boost to Beastmaster could take several different forms. it could be only gear. We could get gear that raises our pets level. Not just level 119 anymore, but higher. It could be just better stat boosts on pet gear.

It COULD be new pets. It could be raising level caps on old pets.

The only message I really hear from you is "I WANT MY POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!"
This attitude appears the antithesis of the spirit of the Beastmaster. It is not a powerful job because it has high stats (personal or pet). It is powerful because of the options it has to adapt to different game environments, SPECIFICALLY in regards to what mobs are present.

Your stance is all over the place, & I have no idea what your point is. You want a power-boost, but not powerful pets. You say powerful pets would be boring then go on to highlight BST feats of massive damage while saying damage or "Over 9,000" is not the way to go........Sounds like you do not like the way BST is, but your pride is above 9,000, so you are arguing just to argue.

Agree to disagree, but one crowd does not want stronger pets (Like the current ones), but complain about power.

The other guy wants stronger pets but complains about power.....

One of these sound like an oxymoron.....You cannot swim without getting your suit wet. You cannot fly without being off of the ground, nor can BST be powerful without strong pets, meaning a better jug selection.

One of these is an oxymoron.......

[Gwydion]

SE should just bring back Charm again, if they're not going to update jug pets.

God, Beastmaser job really needs help.

[Xilk]

meh, shoulda known after first post that talking to beastorizer was a waste of breath

[Nyarlko]

meh, shoulda known after first post that talking to beastorizer was a waste of breath

I already gave up. I don't know how many more times I can patiently explain how/why the base concept is patently wrong before actually getting angry. :(

[Beastorizer]

I already gave up. I don't know how many more times I can patiently explain how/why the base concept is patently wrong before actually getting angry. :(

You both are out of ammo; I knew eventually you would cave in because your arguments were contradicting.

Anyway....

I would not mind doing away with my idea completely and putting charm back in the spotlight. Back in the day, jugs were somewhat of an emergency "Safe" pet. Many BST would level using pets in the the area, pitting them against the ones whom they were intimidated by within the ecosystem.

If anyone recalls the aphorism, "You cannot teach an old dog new tricks;" FFXI was released around 2004; BST was a solo job then. It is now 2019....BST is still a solo job. I do think BST can be a group job, but if they were to come out and say.....

"Regadless of our overhauls and attempts, we feel it is best to focus on BST as a solo job"

I would be fine with that. Why? They are direct, transparent. Not giving us false hope.

IIRC,FFXIV has specifically designed jobs to be solo oriented?

Now, a charm "Overhaul?" I would take that over my idea in a heartbeat. I am not a overhaul fan, but if it leads to say.....allowing BST to charm things which were previously not accessible like Wivre or Hippos? Or allow charmed pets to use Ready charges among other things? Or having a definitive direction or game-play style for BST? Sounds good.

I am not stuck in my ways that I cannot take an idea that may be better than mine, such as charm. However, vague overhauls? Been there, done that, didn't work......Not interested.

(Honestly, BST could even be a great dd if charm were brought back and they placed pets within an area that allows BST to use them, while applying the Ready System to the creatures. Therefore, BST could be an amazing dd party member).

[vavant]

I had a idea awhile back but meh never post it sooo here goes i suggest a system like automaton attachment for bst but call it training manuals like manual of defense now using that as a example manual will start at -1% pdt then go high as -15% when u cap the manual exp from killing anything easy prey and up tell me what u guys think with this idea it frees up pet gear slots u can use for ur melee set

[vavant]

My only other idea was have the bst buff there own pets with a ability say +20% acc +20% att -20%DT 5% att speed 5% dmg increase instead of asking the development team to add brds buffs to bst pets simple solution?

[Beastorizer]

Honestly, those are not bad ideas. Actually, it is pretty good. Something BST should have had by now.

I never played Pup, but Pup's automaton gets a -pdt based upon exp from mobs? That is pretty interesting to a BST whom is not familiar with Pup, & sounds like a significant nifty component for durability.

I am seriously of the mindset.....& nothing, absolutely nothing will change my mind, that the devs never played BST, or probably pet jobs in general lol.

Example, I really don't know much about PLD, because I rarely play it. My suggestion for PLD would be more defense?

....Only to read PLD threads to discover Rune can take a hit and deal damage......So they need more damage? Idk...I don't play it lol.

I really don't mind new abilities or general buffs. I left in 2014-ish, & the damage BST did then compared to now blew my mind.

The reason I am fixated on pets, I am sensing lazy development. People whom do not play nor understand the job, but they are the same people who created the job.....

Stronger pets and buffs will work in unison.

[Beastorizer]

As for the last update...

Here is my redo of those pets

New Jugs: Scorpion to replace Weevil, while keeping the Mandy but giving him Petalback spin which last for 30 seconds on mobs.

That wasn't too hard....Considering those monsters are already in the game......Blows the mind, eh?

[Seish]

I hear you, there are some good points. However, I ask......

Do ppl use Brave Hero Glenn? Why not? Because not all pets are created equal.

I still hold firm that overhauls are not the answer. Why? We have seen this movie before, many times.....Sic > Ready, Increase pet stats, Pet stat food, etc, etc. No realistic overhaul can make Brave Hero Glenn a powerful pet. But...A powerful species does not need an overhaul.

Overhaul is vague. What are we overhauling? What does it entail? How many of these fixes have we had now? Too many to count..

Improved jug species? It entails better jug selection (Including moves). Again, overhauls are vague. Better species are not.

Example of how improve jug selections would surpass any overhaul...

A Wivre, Granite Skin? He cannot be physically hurt from the front. Along with Boiling Blood? This trumps any overhaul they can realistically give us. BST would be the Physical Tank
https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEjHFj3zAXyiKWQCI/giphy.gif

A Peiste? Grim Glower=the Party has a short amount of time to avoid any attacks from a mob. The BST would be an ace.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BrokenImmaterialEyelashpitviper-size_restricted.gif

We all know a Death Scissor Scorp will blow any jug we currently have away...
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-P932n-txt0I/W-BMPkzOR1I/AAAAAAABI6I/rD0C5gcIKaUQKq8Rf_B2LEdcjoMnkpHCgCLcBGAs/s1600/Scorpion%2BDeath%2BLock.gif

Ruszor would also have utility because he can freeze foes for a short amount of time, = Hydro Wave absorbs water. BST has utility pending the mob.
https://media0.giphy.com/media/13edcsJf7Gl6zm/giphy.gif

Yztarg's normal attacks are very effective. They reduce tp, defense, or stun. It's ready moves are also great.

They could even keep Beastruction if they make the condition of use for the mob's health to be under 35% instead of the jug pet. So the Yztarg would be the finisher.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PoorWeightyArabianoryx-size_restricted.gif

There is so much more usefulness, damage, strategy, and fun to be had with BST. However, it is all held back due to our jug pet selection. No overhaul can ever replace a solid jug selection. BST overhauls have come and gone, but BST still has the same issues players were complaining about during this forum's inception.

What has not been done? Better jug selections. Here lies the problem.

First off, this post is awesome. Second, negotiations first start with both sides clearly expressing what they want. Neither side will ever get all of what they want, but a compromise is worked out. While it's outlandish to think we would get a Byakko, I think it's funny as hell and valid to want the best BST could get. Carry on. You are a hero to every player.