Alliance content isn't fun

[Shiyo]

This games combat system does not function and completely falls apart in alliance content. In alliances, the game turns into 90% of people standing around doing nothing while the remaining 10% are on damage dealers mashing 1 Weapon skill over and over. You cannot use the only fun and interesting part of the games combat, skillchains, inside of an alliance because you gain TP too fast to multistep with 3+ damage dealers. It turns the game into the WORST combat system in a MMO. There is no thought, no skill, no rotation, simply hitting 1 button while the majority of people stand around afk doing nothing. It's incredibly boring.

There's also the fact that in alliances, you need 1 tank per 18 people, while in parties, you need 1 tank per 6 people. This makes it so only a very, very few people are able to play tanks.

In smaller parties, you can skillchain, your supports don't just stand around - they can heal after buffing and replace the White mage entirely or contribute damage and be in the skillchain with your damage dealer. Skillchaining is very fun, an efficient way of dealing damage, and takes teamwork and strategy(not a lot, but more than mashing 1 weapon skill over and over) to pull off. It's exciting and feels good to and satisfying to work together and never mess up a skillchain.



However, you're now designing content only for aliances. Dynamis D, and especially wave3, is VERY clearly designed for alliances.

The games combat works and is the only teamwork based MMO combat inside of ~6 person parties. Why would you completely abandon your games unique combat system by designing content for alliances only?

This games player base is already incredibly small, and I'd be impressed if more than 30 people per server can kill the megabosses in Dynamis D, which is around ~3% of the games player base.

Do you really think it's a good idea to use your incredibly limited development time to create content for less than 5% of the games player base? I don't think so.

You are taking the game in a very, very bad direction. You tried this with delve and nearly killed off your game, why are you making the same mistake? Re-think what you're doing, and stop designing content for alliances, design it for 6 man parties again. You did this with omen and ambu, why did you randomly stop? The road you're taking this game down is very bad for the game and not enjoyable for most of the players.

Do not release the update in september, completely revamp it and change dyna-D into 6 man content you "can" bring alliances to, but only if "you" want, DON'T make it mandatory, as you're doing right now. Alliance content is bad.

[Afania]

You are taking the game in a very, very bad direction.


Personal opinion and preferences.

Alliance content is good for the community because it prevents small elite gorup/clique type of endgame "linkshell" with 4 real people and 8 mules clearing everything, then keep the LS size small to maximize drops. Look at some of the small group recruitment post on AH.com:

Need nirvana/epeo/idris. Need multiple jobs geared at elite level, must have mules, only roll with 9 but no more than 9. The list goes on.

Now THAT is bad for the community, because only 5% of players can join endgame LS like that. Everyone else thats not THAT elite left out.

Now that alliance contents are out, I look forward to endgame linkshell start recruiting more people and take lesser geared/more casual players into endgame community.

[Shiyo]

yeah need epeo when it's worse than aettir against every NM in the game besides like 3

[Stompa]

I personally have avoided alliance content whenever possible since 2005.

I joined a /shout Ohat run, and I had bst75 and whm75, so of course I was going WHM. We had to get 18 hats and of course my hat was last. I spent like 12 hours having a dozen DD screaming "Paralyna!" and "Cure!" at me, all at the same time.

And we got hats for the first 15 people and then suddenly they all remembered they had to go for important appointments, or their dog was suddenly very sick and had to go to the veterinarian. So I didn't get my hat, but I did get a Stereo Migraine on both sides of my head for about three days.

That was actually the last alliance I remember going to. Anyway, the week after that, I took my bst75 and went with four of my bst75 friends, and we farmed 5 clusters and 5 hats in an evening, with just five person party. It was fun. Charm the eyes, throw them at Haku, <Run away!> and keep stoneskin and blink up at all times. Happy memories.

It is hard to be a WHM in alliances, or at least it was in those days. When you are six people, the WHM can keep track of who needs what, who to prioritise, etc. In Alliance, it is more chaotic imho.

Also, I didn't like alliance because of the Lag, it makes my head hurt, and it wrecks my poor little Personal Computer.

Normal party size is less Lag, and just feels more natural to me. There is a party rhythm, an equilibrium, the party becomes like one person, instinctively knowing what works best and at what times. This is what I loved about the old XP/Merit Points parties, which were the backbone and soul of FFXI, until recent years.

My happiest parties have been three-man pet runs, with three bst or three pup. I had so many awesome adventures with three-man pet runs. I also like to solo on Bst and Pup, but it is always more fun to team up with other bsts and pups.

I think it important to remember that this game is designed to appeal to everyone, and some people love the alliance battles, with the whole Blunt Instrument, cudgel-bashing approach.

Some people love 18-man, some people love 6-man, some people love 3-man, and some people love to solo. Some people like all of those, or a combination of those.

When something is alliance-only , I generally won't do it, so that means I won't have that gear.

I would rather go and try to 3-man something less difficult, with my best friends. But I still hope that other people, who enjoy alliance content, will have fun, because FFXI is for everyone.

[Kishr]

When people figure out the best way to do it, ammount of people needed will become less.
I'm feeling your dissatisfied with nearly every concept the developers made for this game.
Why are you still playing it?
Go find a corner of vanadiel your comfortable with and enjoy it there.
I personally don't have issues with much of the game outside insane Alex grind and the last 3 nm grinds for emp.
Outside that I like the current system and flow the game is in and has became.
If your not happy, there loads of other FF's or other rpg or just loads of games in general to play instead of a game you keep to feel the need to complain about.

[Nyarlko]

Even if you don't like alliance content like Divergence, you can still benefit from it. Just entering on a job unlocks the +2 upgrade for that zone, and only need 3x ppl to enter.

I only managed to do it twice early on, but it's also possible to lowman farm by disbanding inside and calling Trusts. XD The downside to this is that the loot/claim is not zone-wide (like Legion.. gawd, I wish it was like this..) so each "party" gets it's own loot/drops and don't share claim of monsters, so there has to be some trust between players if you're planning to split the loot afterwards and have to be very careful on pulls. The more successful of those runs was... RUN / SCH+GEO / BLM+BST, with the SCH and BST both making self-SC for MBs on trash, then we joined back up for the boss. Barely squeaked it out in time, but we did get the midboss down. ^^ Then immediately got splattered by Wave2 off a bad pull. lol The point being that it is possible to get most of the benefits w/o dealing w/ large PUGs, as long as you have well-geared (not necessarily BIS, just appropriate for the clvl,) friends who are willing to experiment and have the right job combos.

ALL of the new loot from Wave3 is sellable/buyable on the AH, except the points earned towards the upcoming DREAM weapon augments. If you want your "Ultimate Weapon" to become more "ultimate", then you must do the current "ultimate" content yourself. I'd say that's actually pretty fair.

[Sirmarki]

Another problem on the subject of alliances is the two tier server problem.

We have people on servers here who would struggle to probably even put a 6 man party together, let alone 18 on their server.

Then we have Asura which won't have so much of a problem with alliance creation.

[Justuas]

Another problem on the subject of alliances is the two tier server problem.

We have people on servers here who would struggle to probably even put a 6 man party together, let alone 18 on their server.

Then we have Asura which won't have so much of a problem with alliance creation.

The op is in Bahamut. I wonder if they can even get enough people for alliance.

[Kishr]

That's a valid point Sirmarki.

[Afania]

yeah need epeo when it's worse than aettir against every NM in the game besides like 3

Do you seriously own the weapon, or do you just listen to a few forum people's opinion who doesn't own epeo?

I know multiple epeo owners who also own Aettir, not one single of them choose aettir over epeo for 95% of tanking situations.


Another problem on the subject of alliances is the two tier server problem.

We have people on servers here who would struggle to probably even put a 6 man party together, let alone 18 on their server.

Then we have Asura which won't have so much of a problem with alliance creation.


The op is in Bahamut. I wonder if they can even get enough people for alliance.


That's a valid point Sirmarki.

And Asura fanboys strikes again, they seem to lurk on every forum, every discussion, take every chances to yell and scream "can't find groups on small servers" when it's not anywhere close to the truth.


The op is in Bahamut. I wonder if they can even get enough people for alliance.


Just FYI, Bahamut got the world first on wave 3 boss clears, with an alliance of 18 people. Despite 2 people are alts they actually had the resources to create 18 people with real human player. Just that being a social/endgame hybrid LS some new/returning player without appropriate gear had to sit out for ilv 149 content progression.

So yes, it's entirely possible to create a full alliance, even if you're not on Asura.

AFAIK, the OP is in a ls with capped member as well, and I offered several opportunity to get them into existing big endgame groups. Just that OP prefers lowman content instead of alliances. If you think OP's complaint about alliance content is because they are on a small server and unable to find people, you are very, very wrong. It's 100% their personal preference and their choice, which is fine. Although I personally don't think lowman content is good for the community and it's nice to have some variety.

[Afania]

Also, I didn't like alliance because of the Lag, it makes my head hurt, and it wrecks my poor little Personal Computer.


I generally agree with you, I lag in 18 man dyna so much to the point that every action and macro swap will take 1+ sec, that seriously hinders performance and enjoyment. By design, alliance content is horrible itself.

That being said, from community perspective, I still think alliance content is good for the community.

FFXI endgame has been favoring small groups for very long time. Many group that I know of, has minimum members for max gain per merc or run. It's very common to see an endgame LS with core member of just 9 to 12 people and several alt. They don't accept any new members, except people with multiple top end jobs, alt and multiple REMA.

On the other hand, groups that accepts more lesser geared members and run events at 18/18 got punished heavily with less drops. And it has been that way in past 6 months.

I don't think it's fair in any way, personally.

Dyna has been out for over 6 months already, and multiple mid sized groups basically farmed their ass and made a lot of money by keeping the group lowman and BLU burn all things. They completed +3 at much faster pace since every members got more drops. By comparison the bigger group that had to go 18/18 due to the size of LS had to farm drops at much slower pace due to so many people needing clears on different jobs.

Now that wave 3 is out, it's basically the other way around. Big groups with tons of manpower got more advantage, and that's quite fair for people who struggle to include more people per run.

[Halley]

Alliance content was good for the community when there still was a community. Ship sailed.

[Zehira]

The op is in Bahamut. I wonder if they can even get enough people for alliance.

Most active during Japanese prime time and most of them only speak Japanese. I was on Bahamut for years.

[Sirmarki]

And Asura fanboys strikes again, they seem to lurk on every forum, every discussion, take every chances to yell and scream "can't find groups on small servers" when it's not anywhere close to the truth.

I'm originally from Fenrir. There were 250~300 people on at my time, and that was about two years ago. A lot of people have left Fenrir since then, and moved to Asura.

30% of which were more than likely mules and alts. So I'd estimate 175 as actual players.
Discount the people (a) not interested in it (b) have their own static groups and you realise that alliances are hard to create. This is evident by looking at the /yells on those servers.

Asura last time I was on had 2300~ players online in my timezone. The maths says it all really? More people = greater number pool of people to pick from.

[Sirmarki]

Alliance content was good for the community when there still was a community. Ship sailed.

Last time I logged on, I think almost every shout was a mercenary shout, consisting of buy this or buy that.

So 5 minutes later I logged out again...

[Dzspdref]

Last time I logged on, I think almost every shout was a mercenary shout, consisting of buy this or buy that.

So 5 minutes later I logged out again...

It hasn't changed a bit. But it does have that sporadic Ambuscade or "Please PL my lazy ass to 99..." /yell once in a while.

[Afania]

I'm originally from Fenrir. There were 250~300 people on at my time, and that was about two years ago. A lot of people have left Fenrir since then, and moved to Asura.

30% of which were more than likely mules and alts. So I'd estimate 175 as actual players.
Discount the people (a) not interested in it (b) have their own static groups and you realise that alliances are hard to create. This is evident by looking at the /yells on those servers.

Asura last time I was on had 2300~ players online in my timezone. The maths says it all really? More people = greater number pool of people to pick from.

If every alliance needs 500 people instead of just 18, what you said would be true.

If creating an endgame alliance is just the matter of server total number/18, what you said would be true as well.

If creating an alliance for ilv 149 is just the matter of logging on, /yell dynamis wave 3 team up? do you need it? 1/18 need REMA PLD GEO BRD DD, then enter + clear after it fills up, what you said would be true.

If creating an alliance for ilv 149 content is the same as creating an alliance for 119 content, then what you said would be true too.

If all the 2300 people on Asura aren't mostly casual and revolving door players that come back for story then quit before they are really ready for endgame then what you said would be true too.

But we all know that 2300 people server doesn't suddenly generate 127.7 alliance for ilv 149 content, the hardest content in game doesn't work that way, not anywhere close.

Because when it comes to hardest endgame in game, you don't just log on, "pick" people from this massive pool of player from 2300 people, filter them out by shouting for REMA, then copy a strategy posted on the forum and magically get win. It just doesn't work that way.

Just FYI, our server has 400 people, we made 18/18 alliance a day after wave3 was out, and have been 18/18 nearly every event before that. If creating a 18/18 alliance is just the matter of log on to a 2300 people server and pick people from this big pool, how come we don't see at least a dozen groups on Asura doing the same and clearing wave3 yet? Considering Asura has far more talented and well geared player than our dirt road servers, and much higher avg player quality, it should be easy, no?

Here is how endgame group really works for high end content. People don't actually log on, and go "hey let's do dynamis wave 3, I'll go shout for GEO BRD DD now, 2300 people on it must be easy". Instead, people work on building a community first. They do endgame events as a group multiple days per week, every week, for years, to build enough trust and connection between members. And that attracts more qualified players wanting to join. So when content like wave 3 comes, there are more than enough manpower to create an alliance content of 18/18 immediately.

It doesn't matter if your server has 300 people, or 3000 people. When it comes to the hardest endgame the difficulty of creating an alliance is the same. A community of player don't suddenly form out of nowhere. It requires consistently doing endgame as a group together for very long time, and consistently building the connection and trust with each members.

From that perspective, a server with 2300 people isn't necessary easier than a server of 300 people. Otherwise we'd see more than one Asura groups doing wave 3 with 18/18 instead of trying to recruit for more on AH.com like now.

I'm from a 400 people server, and like I said, we built 18/18 alliance a day after wave 3 is out, and has been 18/18 since forever. It takes 30 min to create an alliance of 18/18 that's capable of getting wave 3 win. I have several Asura friends in endgame community, none of them has the ability to build 18/18 winning alliance for ilv 149 wave 3 then get win, at least not atm. When it comes to the hardest endgame it simply doesn't work in a way that bigger server number = easier to fill up alliances. 300 people and 2300 people is exactly the same when it comes to difficulty to build high lv endgame alliance. Whoever works the hardest to build a stable community will have the easiest time building a successful 18/18 alliance.

So yeah, my answer to this question is the same:

The op is in Bahamut. I wonder if they can even get enough people for alliance.

Yes they can. And they done it faster than Asura, thank you for your concern but please fanboy the server elsewhere.

[Shiyo]

The JP's are already "confused" about requiring wave3 as translated here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/54231-Weekly-Announcements-and-Forum-Posts-from-July-6-July-12

By "confused" i'm sure they meant "outraged", and they're going to add ways outside of garbage alliance content to allow you to upgrade your RMEA's.

Yay!

[Nyarlko]

The JP's are already "confused" about requiring wave3 as translated here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/54231-Weekly-Announcements-and-Forum-Posts-from-July-6-July-12

By "confused" i'm sure they meant "outraged", and they're going to add ways outside of garbage alliance content to allow you to upgrade your RMEA's.

Yay!

The possibility of add'l routes for earning RP for the incoming DREAM augments was included in what they said during FP40 when they talked about Wave3. JPs were confused because the devs did not really want to nail anything down yet as it was still in the planning stage, and admitted that they probably said more than they should have yet, all of which adds up to confusion in the ranks. They had to expand on what was said a bit, in the summary. There was also something about Fujito saying some stuff on his personal Twitter account accidentally that seemed to ruffle a lot of feathers, though I've not run across the details of what was said, but he did write a post apologizing for it on JPside of these forums already.

It wasn't so much outrage, as it was simple confusion since we were given only a small part of the details basically.

The summary just confirms that they've decided that they are going to add the add'l routes rather than maybe add them.

[Kishr]

Afania you just sound like your crying

[xiozen]

Personal opinion and preferences.

Spot on observation Afania, can't agree with this sentiment more.

While the OP has clearly explained why he/she prefers non-alliance content that doesn't change the fact that many players (in my experience with this game) actually enjoy the challenges that it offers.

Granted, it's not for everyone--however if you feel that FFXI doesn't meet your personal preference as an MMO, there are "other MMO's" out there... one that comes to mind is FFXIV... it's combat system in alliance raids ... oh wait... require you to do pretty much the same thing... spam weapon skills... or high-powered spells... FFXIV doesn't offer skillchaining like FFXI; even so, if you really look at what skillchaining requires--you should come to realize in alliance related content that's really not feasible.

[BBWallace]

What is the point of this thread? Nothing in this game requires 18 people to be beaten. You can take 6-7 people and clear pretty much anything you want provided they are the right jobs and geared.

Beaten every omen boss san Ou with 5 people, Beaten Dyna with 4, T3's with 5,Helms with 6-7. Not sure where you are getting this alliance crap from.

[Afania]

Afania you just sound like your crying

Nope, I'm typing these perfectly calm. Why would I be "crying" over speaking facts and truth, not like I'm asking nor demanding for something.....What you said makes zero sense.

[Afania]

What is the point of this thread? Nothing in this game requires 18 people to be beaten. You can take 6-7 people and clear pretty much anything you want provided they are the right jobs and geared.

Beaten every omen boss san Ou with 5 people, Beaten Dyna with 4, T3's with 5,Helms with 6-7. Not sure where you are getting this alliance crap from.

None of the content listed above has as much HP as dyna wave3 bosses though.

It will be rather difficult to beat wave3 boss with 6-7 tbh, though I'm not completely sure how smn zerg performs there.

Afaik most well geared group with 12 people are still struggling atm.

[Afania]

While the OP has clearly explained why he/she prefers non-alliance content that doesn't change the fact that many players (in my experience with this game) actually enjoy the challenges that it offers.


This. People frequently state their opinion as facts.

"Alliance content is bad direction!"
"Small servers can't form alliances!"

That's opinions, assumptions but not facts.

[Kishr]

What you said makes zero sense.
Yep, what I usually say when I see your wall of text.

[Sirmarki]

This. People frequently state their opinion as facts.

"Alliance content is bad direction!"
"Small servers can't form alliances!"

That's opinions, assumptions but not facts.

I wasn't implying that 'small servers can't form alliances' but more the fact, due to the lesser numbers of people, it would be more difficult.

As you mentioned, if you have a static group and a community you can put together, then there isn't really a problem. Getting to build that community on the other hand presents a lot of problems and time..

[Afania]

Yep, what I usually say when I see your wall of text.

Sounds like you don't like to read text...... which is not my problem.........Do you find your college text book and essays "crying" as well?

If I have a lot to say to the point that I have to type multiple paragraphs, what you think about paragraphs and text is not my business. I think you're just mad that I disagree with your opinion anyways.




As you mentioned, if you have a static group and a community you can put together, then there isn't really a problem. Getting to build that community on the other hand presents a lot of problems and time..

For the level of wave3 bosses, getting into a static or community will be mandatory regardless of the server. The amount of work to build a successful PUG alliance to beat wave3 is entirely way too high even on Asura.

There are tons and tons of well geared high end endgame LS currently attempting wave3 clears with full alliance and still fails. If they fail, PUG will fail harder. So essentially clearing wave 3 has same difficulty on every server if PUG is a very very bad option. And PUG is the only advantage Asura has over other servers, if it's not an option, then Asura isn't easier, it's the same.

Many people often said building a group is difficult on small servers because the population is small, I'm not sure if that's the case at all. Someone on my server started with social ls that invites everyone. Now they are a LS with 64 members, that I often can't to get in, and eventually they became an aeonic LS just by pulling people from these massive pool.

Many other established endgame community also opens their door to anyone that's geared for endgame. All you need is to send a tell and you will be invited. So being in a community/static shouldn't be an issue.

A lot of new or returning player never take the necessary steps to get into established groups on their server for endgame. These step are: 1) Join an active social LS to gear up, ideally bigger/established social LS with members already in endgame group and refer you. Getting referred by someone already in a top end LS is key here. I know more than one extremely big social LS on small servers, so they exist.. 2) Send a tell to established endgame group and offer your jobs to contribute. Ideally get a reference from people that's already in.

Due to the size of small server, the "get reference" step, which is essential to get into very established groups rather than groups still growing and struggling for consistent clears, become extremely easy because it's easier to meet and pt with important people in town on small servers.

Instead many returning player just sit in town waiting for shouts, find no shouts, listen to reddit recommendation and transfer. Some people ended up being successful after they transfer, but these are the minority. Many of them still struggle to get efficient ambu VD wins and suffer from long queue time, and they ended up having to lv SMN to get into top end groups or buy wins.

Not saying you are the latter but I find these people often pop on the forum, claim small servers are dead, Asura ftw, on the same time they still complain on forums and chat about wiping in easy content like VD, UNM, Omen or ask "what job should I level to get into endgame", or complain about 20 min ambu queue time. While I never ever experience difficulty clearing those 139 content nor need to gear WHM GEO RUN SMN to do the hardest endgame in game on small server, nor have difficulty clearing anything I want to kill in game, on a small server.

Because of that, I can't help but find Asura promotions on forums are slightly biased. It's not a heaven like everyone else describes.

The door to endgame on small servers are always open to those who's nice, it's almost too easy to get in from my personal experience. When people pop on the forum claiming "small servers are dead" "it's harder to find enough people", it can't apply to everyone. It's experience from people who is never in the community to begin with, not experience from those who's in. For those that's in the community, the experience is drastically different: Tight-knit community, efficient higher lv content clears, low queue time, helpful and respectful members, list goes on. The benefit outweigh the slight AH inconvenience most of the time unless you have different work schedule from every group.

For those who is not in the community, the door is basically wide open to anyone bother to send a tell.

[Shiyo]

People who want alliance content are probably playing games like WOW/ff14 which actually, you know, have combat systems that support them.

[VoiceMemo]

I personally think it depends on your point of view. Since I've played for so long, Alliance content WAS how the game started, SE is just going back to it's roots. Dynamis D is much like how se described relics, that NOT everyone will be able to accomplish the goal. Game has gotten easier, but for me it's a welcome sight to see the game return to it's beginnings, where you had to have coordination, skill at jobs and faith in your fellow alliance members to accomplish the goal.

[Shiyo]

Game literally didn't have alliances in the game until Zilart iirc. The game started with 6 man parties only. There's no skill involved in alliances, 75%+ of your 18 man is afk while the other 25% mash 1 macro over and over again. It's the most degenerate boring form of content in the game, and it needs to not exist.

[Afania]

Game literally didn't have alliances in the game until Zilart iirc. The game started with 6 man parties only. There's no skill involved in alliances, 75%+ of your 18 man is afk while the other 25% mash 1 macro over and over again. It's the most degenerate boring form of content in the game, and it needs to not exist.

I would love to see an alliance with 14 people afk and 4 active player getting T4 or Dyna wave 3 boss wins......

18 man alliance isn't TOO different from 6 man, unless you are doing multi step skillchain, which isn't necessary the best way to DPS even in 6 man pt if your tank and BRD can DD anyways.

18 man alliance content still needs to watch position, swap to DT set, keep bubbles up, watch hate, silence mage adds etc. It's the same as 6 man. Additionally, while it seems easy to play a job in 18 man alliance, for organizers it's tougher to manage a bigger pt.

Admittedly many 6 man content requires more coordination skill than most 18 man content, but I'd argue that's the content design issue, not pt size issue. Ambuscade vol1 VD and master trials both require a lot of coordination, because of the mechanics. On the other hand NMs like wave 3 bosses has way less mechanics to deal with. So they look easy, but it's not pt size's fault, it's just that the NMs in 18 man alliance content are designed that way.

[Nyarlko]

Game literally didn't have alliances in the game until Zilart iirc. The game started with 6 man parties only. There's no skill involved in alliances, 75%+ of your 18 man is afk while the other 25% mash 1 macro over and over again. It's the most degenerate boring form of content in the game, and it needs to not exist.

The game also started w/o Advanced Jobs and lv50 cap IIRC.. Do your rose-tinted glasses make that appear attractive as well? ^^;; NA release included Zilart, so as far as non-Japanese players are concerned, alliance content really has been around since the beginning of the game.

Outside of Vagary, I can't think of any alliance content that would be successful playing the way that you say that it is played. Vagary IS a good example of how NOT to design alliance content, what with the losing-to-RNG in the feet wing, boss mechanics being SO overwhelmingly anti-melee and gimmicks being difficult to work more than 3-4 players in successfully, but it's basically the exception to the rule for modern alliance content.

[Afania]

Vagary IS a good example of how NOT to design alliance content, what with the losing-to-RNG in the feet wing, boss mechanics being SO overwhelmingly anti-melee and gimmicks being difficult to work more than 3-4 players in successfully, but it's basically the exception to the rule for modern alliance content.

The only reason why most people aren't doing Vagary in alliances is because of drops. The more people split drops = less gil/hr. That being said, we still do Vagary in 18/18 alliance as LS event when campaign is up. So it's not like Vagary has mechanics that really punish alliances so hard, it's all about drops and gil/hr.

I mean, the content is like 3+ years old? For content THAT old nothing will possess any threat to geared players and established endgame groups. If you want to screw gil/hr and do vagary as an alliance, you're not losing anything in any way.

Like wise, the reason why wave 3 is alliance content is because of DPS checks, that's it.

[Nyarlko]

The only reason why most people aren't doing Vagary in alliances is because of drops. The more people split drops = less gil/hr. That being said, we still do Vagary in 18/18 alliance as LS event when campaign is up. So it's not like Vagary has mechanics that really punish alliances so hard, it's all about drops and gil/hr.

I mean, the content is like 3+ years old? For content THAT old nothing will possess any threat to geared players and established endgame groups. If you want to screw gil/hr and do vagary as an alliance, you're not losing anything in any way.

Like wise, the reason why wave 3 is alliance content is because of DPS checks, that's it.

A geared-to-the-teeth full alliance who does everything right can still be defeated by RNG in feet wing, the last wing of Vagary is done by noengagetank+nekkidsch+nekkidblm+15x cheerleaders and the combination of nasty+powerful AOEs and the NoDeathsAllowed clause to pop 2x of the bosses make it a decidedly horrible idea to go in swinging at any point other than the final boss. Personally, I call it bad design when an integral part of the content design is that non-nekkid players are too powerful to properly do the content. >_>

I always go full alliance for Vagary. There's always plenty of newer folk who still need the clears, and I am not playing this game to get rich. :3

[Afania]

A geared-to-the-teeth full alliance who does everything right can still be defeated by RNG in feet wing

That's not anti-alliance design though.

[Nyarlko]

That's not anti-alliance design though.

The rest of it is tho. :x You know, the 80% of the same run-on sentence that you didn't quote. XD